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As you all know, Pandora is the sinner who revamped DC into what it is now, with Barry's (yet undisclosed) "help":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13129441/0.jpg.html

However, when the Phantom Stranger confronted Pandora, he acted as though the New 52 was an abomination that needed to be undone, so that reality could be set back to the way it was:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13129355/1.jpg.html
And since PS was sent by the Circle of Eternity(of whom represent a higher power than Spectre himself), it means they wish reality to be reverted back by proxy.

So my question is if you guys think the New 52 will ultimately be transformed back to its pre-Flashpoint self after "Trinity War" has concluded, or do you think DC will opt to keep the New 52 around permanently? They've certainly left it open to go either way, imo.

As long as their making money and for the most part reviews are good they won't change. I could see them do it when sales are down, but as of right now it's only been one year of the new 52, I just don't see them ending it already.

I think it'll last for awhile, but it wouldn't shock me if they did something like Marvel and Ult Marvel and run new and old side by side.

^ That's kind of how I see it, as well. Sales are ultimately the deciding factor in EVERY comic book venture.

However, that brings up another question: The Circle of Eternity are seemingly the most powerful entities in DC, short of God himself... They apparently want reality set back to the way it was before Pandora's tampering... They aren't going to just 'stop' wanting this. So unless the CoE are beaten outright (which is possible, I suppose, just very unlikely) I'm curious how their will/power will be thwarted, in order to postpone the reversion(if that is, indeed, what happens)..?

This is what might happen, Galan. Once Action and Detective reach 1000 issue, they will return to the regular DCU, with some of DCnU still intact. Sort of like AOA from Marvel. That won't be for some years, though.

DC has had like 4 large-scale Crises since '86 (3 of them occurred in a 5 year span.) Something will happen soon enough.

Yeah, it's called Trinity War.

as long as the good reviews keep coming in they will keep it.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
as long as the good reviews keep coming in they will keep it.

Well, reviews tend to be pretty mixed, separate from sales numbers.

DCnU certainly has more critically acclaimed books then they did before. Sales are up as is interest, so they won't change so soon. I predict once Action hits 1000, something big will happen.

Originally posted by Galan007
DC has had like 4 large-scale Crises since '86 (3 of them occurred in a 5 year span.) Something will happen soon enough.

I think this is a problem that was building itself in a way. Crisis's are becoming the only way to truly show the heroes being put to the test. I mean simple story arcs can challenge a hero but not on the scale that a crisis can. These big events actually put more then the world at risk most of the time and it can bring in more diversity to the story via more heroes and villains in a single story. That being said Green Lantern has been a very solid book for the last few years imo. The Sinestro Crops War was a great story and it was a pretty big arc but Blackest Night encompassed the entire DCU and threatened the lives of everyone. I think its either hard for the writers to write a single story arc that makes the reader feel the intensity that a crisis would or it's just laziness.

They will probably do a major crisis soon, if it doesn't work then they will bring back the New52.

Originally posted by Golgo13
DCnU certainly has more critically acclaimed books then they did before. Critically acclaimed by you, maybe.

At first I was annoyed. I didn't like a lot of the changes that happened, the trainwrecked continuity, etc.

Then there was some creativity. Some neglected characters (e.g. Aquaman) were brilliantly revived, and some new characters were added that I enjoy (e.g. Batwing).

But then, that boost started to wear off. Too much creativity is being lost in the process (e.g. Morrison), too many characters are falling beyond redemption (e.g. Firestorm(s), JSA), and some of the mystery was lost (e.g. Phantom Stranger origin story). Overall it feels like there was a lot of thought put into the first story arc for a lot of titles -- but now that we're past that, the intensity and the energy is lost and I find myself waiting for the next big thing (Trinity War) rather than waiting impatiently for the next issue as I was before.

So, IMO DC should go back following Trinity War. It was an interesting experiment that doesn't have staying power.

That is an excellent analysis-- one that mirrors my own views to the 't'.

Even comics that I used to eagerly await each month, such as Action and I Vampire, have become progressively more stale as the series' have continued-- simply put: they're overproduced. Tbh, the only comic I have enjoyed on a consistent basis is Captain Atom(which, ironically enough, will be cancelled shortly.) I recently got into Aquaman as well, and it is definitely a good read, but it is something I could do without if push came to shove... And as you mentioned, it seems like the New 52's failures are beginning to overshadow many of its staples--what they did to Firestorm and the JSA lineup, for instance, borders on unforgivable. On top of that, the Superman and JLA books have been cheese for a while now.

That being said, reverting back to the pre-Flashpoint era would be a good thing, I think. Johns had his fun, but now it's time for other writers to enter the fray-- Johns' ideas, much like the New 52 itself, are getting more and more stale with each passing month, imo. Even if DC wants to keep the New 52 around AND bring back the old DCU, it'd be easy enough to make it an alternate universe.

Originally posted by Galan007
Even if DC wants to keep the New 52 around AND bring back the old DCU, it'd be easy enough to make it an alternate universe.



Much like Marvel's Ultimate Universe

I would ask what do you guys miss so much about the Pre-Flashpoint character's that they couldn't put into the new 52 story arcs?

I miss the characters themselves, personally. Booster Gold, Swamp Thing, Firestorm, Alan Scott, Blue Beetle, etc. These all used to be some of my favs... Now they've been entirely ruined by horrible ideas/stories, imo.

That sucks

And the whole "learning to be superheroes" and "gaining the respect of the world" thing is something we've seen a hundred times and gets old fast.

Originally posted by Galan007
Critically acclaimed by you, maybe.

Nah, DC has better books before the relaunch. Before the relanch a lot of the books I liked were getting poor reviews and becoming stale. Before the relaunch, Swamp Thing didn't really matter, Animal Man didn't really matter, an obscure character like Andrew didn't really matter, etc... Swamp Thing sales and Animal Man are holding solid sales and Animal Man got the #2 position in CBR's top 100 books. I Vampire might not be getting as good of sales, but it has good reviews.

People who are wishing it will go back, stop right now. It's not. Sales are up and that's the ONLY thing that matters to a business.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nah, DC has better books before the relaunch. I agree.

One day, Galan. One day.

sneer

I enjoy the restart so far, but it bugs me too much that it's too different. I mean for years we had the original with the characters having their lives for example Superman. I enjoy it that he is all new now, but it's too new. DC wasn't remade like this ever, not even in the original Crisis. I hope it gets interesting, but I feel it's going to be set back to the original after some time which is a shame.

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. That I can agree with, but they were chaotic due to the events since 2006.

Originally posted by Rewmac
I enjoy the restart so far, but it bugs me too much that it's too different. I mean for years we had the original with the characters having their lives for example Superman. I enjoy it that he is all new now, but it's too new. DC wasn't remade like this ever, not even in the original Crisis. I hope it gets interesting, but I feel it's going to be set back to the original after some time which is a shame.

That I can agree with, but they were chaotic due to the events since 2006. Good to see you posting again.

Originally posted by Galan007
I miss the characters themselves, personally. Booster Gold, Swamp Thing, Firestorm, Alan Scott, Blue Beetle, etc. These all used to be some of my favs... Now they've been entirely ruined by horrible ideas/stories, imo.

^ this. Add most of Wildstorm to my list. I suppose Ellis spoiled me with early Wildstorm, but the tone of the characters and stories is nowhere near the same. I keep poking my head back into DC books to see what's up, and coming away disappointed. Like, I don't give a **** if Animal Man is brilliant, or I, Dracula produces instant boners or whatever. The titles I followed are, largely, turned to crap. I still don't want to think about what's being done with the JSA, for example. I don't stay away on principle if I enjoy the books again (he says, looking at anyone still boycotting OMD), but I don't enjoy them.

Though I'm somewhat mad at you for getting my hopes up with this thread. Without really knowing the story behind it, I can't imagine them going back this quickly after committing so fully to this. Especially if the reports of increased sales continue to be true.

I think a middle-ground needs to be found. Some reboots have worked, while some have been straight up shite. If they could marry the two, I could see it being good.

In general, I think the reboot was a good thing, even if when I first heard about it I thought it was flat-out retarded. DC just needs to rein in a couple of it's more stupid ideas.

And to fire Robinson.

Both the pre and post Flashpoint DCU have the strengths and weaknesses.

The sad part is that the DCnU had major potential, and it either turned out to be shitty from the start (Firestorm, Earth 2, Legion of Super-Heroes etc.) or are about to get shitty (Grant Morrison leaving the Superman line, cancelling the likes of Captain Atom which eventough I don't love as much as Galan does, is above the line's average). At least with the line beforehand, you know you were neck-deep in shittiness, but it's annoying to have your hopes up and then have them crushed, as it is now.

On the whole, though, I'd say:

Batman line is weaker than the Batman R.I.P/Batman & Robin era, but stronger than the Batman INC. one (mostly due to the ridiculous delays which killed all momentum).
The Superman line is much better, but only because Grant Morrison is on it, for the time being.
Wonder Woman is much better.
Green Lantern is basically the same, with a major event coming soon.
Flash is a bit weaker, but that's also due to the writer not having as much 'pull' as Johns did, who connected his run to the Universe-altering Flashpoint by having Professor Zoom, which was intriguing.
Aquaman is much better, obviously.
Justice League is much better (including the auxiliary titles)
Teen Titans are worse.
JSA are much worse than in the Geoff Johns era, but, well, after Johns left they were shitty, too.

Then we have Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Stormwatch, Captain Atom and more, which are welcomed new additions in the quality area.

Other characters though, like Firestorm, are just being butchered.

Overall, I'd say the new DCU is in better shape, definitely.

Are they going back? Nah, not with these sales reports:



Suck it!

I still like the Batman line. Batman Inc, Batman, BOP, Red Hood, and Talon looks promising.

Originally posted by Digi
JSA was Johns' best work, so it's a tough act to follow. But the next guy was NOT comparable to what's going on right now. Jay, if he can still be called the same character, is a lazy teenager who's into parkour.



I'll go ahead and agree to your strengths/weaknesses overall point, but my personal interests took a gigantic hit.



Be fair. That's total comic sales, not DC alone. Given the popularity of the movies (Batman, Avengers, etc.), I'd expect some small growth. Hitting last year's mark in early November translates to maybe a 12-17% hike in overall sales. Good, but not earth shattering.

Never said it was all DC. However it does point out that sales are up through the comic medium. Was up before the movies hit the theaters.

One thing I'm hoping for: Bringing the old DCU back and making it a 616/Ultimates situation.

Don't *get rid* of either of them.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Never said it was all DC.

Then how is it relevant to the "are DC sales up?" discussion?

huh?

Originally posted by Q99
One thing I'm hoping for: Bringing the old DCU back and making it a 616/Ultimates situation.

Don't *get rid* of either of them.

Could happen and I wouldn't be mad, either. One thing I do miss is regular Superman. I also miss some of WS characters as well. Majestic, for instance. However, how would you split the books? Between Earth 2, DCnU, and regular DCU?

BTW, as DC keeps on pumping out new waves and mini series (#1 issues), it's pretty clear they won't change anytime soon.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Could happen and I wouldn't be mad, either. One thing I do miss is regular Superman. I also miss some of WS characters as well. Majestic, for instance. However, how would you split the books? Between Earth 2, DCnU, and regular DCU?

Make Earth 2 blow up

Regular Superman has been largey shit since 2008. I miss him when he was great, but he hasn't been great since Johns and Busiek were regular writers on the books.

I'll keep DCNU Superman for now, given the choice.

TBH I think that the reboot has been largely a success. The only issues I really have with characters are the lack of some that I like, a shitty Green Arrow, and the JSA. Otherwise I'm generally happy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Regular Superman has been largely shit since 2008. I miss him when he was great, but he hasn't been great since Johns and Busiek were regular writers on the books. Really? Like most series' Action had it's weak points, but I thought it was still pretty good as a whole, post-'08. I also thought the post-'08 issues of Superman(v3) were well done... And Superman/Batman was one of my favorite series' in the pre-Flashpoint era, from start to finish. I also quite enjoyed the team-books Supes was in (JLA, for instance.) /shrug

Superman may not have been *as* good the last few years(though it's arguable, imo), but I definitely wouldn't say he was shit.

Originally posted by Galan007
Really? Like most series' Action had it's weak points, but I thought it was still pretty good as a whole, post-'08. I also thought the post-'08 issues of Superman(v3) were well done... And Superman/Batman was one of my favorite series' in the pre-Flashpoint era, from start to finish. I also quite enjoyed the team-books Supes was in (JLA, for instance.) /shrug

Superman may not have been *as* good the last few years(though it's arguable, imo), but I definitely wouldn't say he was shit.

Once Robinson came on board, Superman was terrible. It started out as barely average, and just descended in to mediocrity.

Him in McDuffie's JLA was bad too, sadly.

At least, imo.

To each his own.

But I actually thought McDuffie's stint on JLA was pretty well done, tbh. Every character (including Firestorm, which was rare) got their just desserts while he was writing the series... And he also reintroduced Milestone Comics back into the mainstream DCU, which was awesome.

Originally posted by Galan007
To each his own.

But I actually thought McDuffie's stint on JLA was pretty well done, tbh. Every character (including Firestorm, which was rare) got their just desserts while he was writing the series... And he also reintroduced Milestone Comics back into the mainstream DCU, which was awesome.

You think Superman getting worf-effected in almost every fight is the same as getting his just-desserts?

^ Yeah, I will say that McDuffie seemed to enjoy using Supes as the initial 'villain-benchmark'. Many times he'd have a baddie show up and own Superman, which swiftly solidified said baddie's uberness. But usually Supes would get back in the game and either own the baddie solo, or assist in owning him/it, swiftly thereafter.

Lot of good stories in his run, though, so it's hard for me to hate on it.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Yeah, I will say that McDuffie seemed to enjoy using Supes as the initial 'villain-benchmark'. Many times he'd have a baddie show up and own Superman, which swiftly solidified said baddie's uberness. But usually Supes would get back in the game and either own the baddie solo, or assist in owning him/it, swiftly thereafter.

Lot of good stories in his run, though, so it's hard for me to hate on it.

When did Superman own villains by himself?

Bar the moon thing.

After briefly skimming through McDuffie's run again, you're right, most of Superman's victories were shared with the rest of the JLA-- but it's a team-book, so that's to be expected... The moon thing happened in Superman/Batman, iirc.

But on that note, who beat Superman in McDuffie's run that shouldn't have been able to?

Originally posted by Galan007
After briefly skimming through McDuffie's run again, you're right, most of Superman's victories were shared with the rest of the JLA-- but it's a team-book, so that's to be expected... The moon thing happened in Superman/Batman, iirc.

But on that note, who beat Superman in McDuffie's run that shouldn't have been able to?

Wonder Woman fans, McDuffie's pettiness about speed.

In JLA? Not following...

Originally posted by Galan007
In JLA? Not following...

McDuffie was an open Wonder Woman fan, and the "Usain Bolt vs Bruce Lee" thing was purely done to piss off some people on the forum and show them he was right.

u so picky.

Originally posted by Galan007


u so picky.



Sorry, the shadow moon thing was JLA, as it was during the arc with the Milestone folks.

Also, Kimiyo Hoshi's characterisation, and Flash's "we're gonna **** you" line too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sorry, the shadow moon thing was JLA, as it was during the arc with the Milestone folks. You're right. JLA #30, to be exact. Regardless, I never thought of it as a poor showing for Supes, tbh.

The Dark Moon had 81 billion tons worth of mass. It was traveling 7,614,000km/hr. Supes flew into it moving just short of light speed, and was only momentarily KO'd, but otherwise none the worse for wear (he wasn't even scratched, and John's scans confirmed he was a-okay immediately afterward.) Had the Moon not have been moving at incredible speeds when Supes flew into it, I would have agreed that it was a poor showing-- but all things considered, it wasn't that bad, imo.

For me that was the one -almost- highlight of the McDuffie run Superman wise.

Aside from what I mentioned above, the scene also showed us that Superman can, and has, traveled FTL-- it showed us that he can easily do so, in fact.

Don't think it was a bad showing, all things considered... But the hate is strong with you.

Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from what I mentioned above, the scene also showed us that Superman can, and has, traveled FTL-- it showed us that he can easily do so, in fact.

Don't think it was a bad showing, all things considered... But the hate is strong with you.

I can't help hating bad writing, what can I say...

I just checked out all of the instances where Supes was 'owned' during McDuffie's stint on JLA, and I honestly can't find anything illogical/stupid about any of them... Amazo, Starbreaker, Lex /w/ Kryptonite, etc.-- these are all characters who, given the chance, should be able to get the better of Supes. Don't really see the problem with it, tbh, but like I said: to each his own. If you think it was "bad", then that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I'm not a McDuffie fan by any means, but I thought his JLA issues were pretty good as a whole. It's a team book, and if take all of the issues into account, I wouldn't say that Superman was treated any worse than the rest of the Leaguers on average. What I will say is that Superman didn't attain too many high-end feats during McDuffie's run-- while some Leaguers did ('Duff did great things for Firestorm, for instance.).

Galan might be on to something. Just read some of Newsaram's article on the whole Pandora thing.

What a waste...

Nobody ever said it was going to go back, but I think they put that option there for when they do it. More than likely it won't be for a long time. Seeing as they have more plans for the DCnU.

I know it's not likely any time soon; I just really don't want things to go back to the way they were for some characters.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Galan might be on to something. Just read some of Newsaram's article on the whole Pandora thing.

I think DC really made a mess with their 52 universes. Since WS was merged, does this mean the old WS universe doesn't exist now? Is it 51 universes? Or what about the New Gods? When Multiversity comes out, one universe is dedicated to New Gods, but New Gods are also on DCnU earth. So there are 2 versions of New Gods?

Yeah, it's a big pit of excrement trying to keep continuity in order for longer than about 6 months. Each new reboot just presents new problems, it doesn't erase the old. It's best not to think about it. No incarnation has been perfect.

They made Guy Gardner more lame, pull the plug on the New 52 already...

They should have gone full post-crisis like reboot. Would've avoided all confusion and complexity of trying to establish a continuity.

Originally posted by Bentley
They made Guy Gardner more lame, pull the plug on the New 52 already...

Is that even possible?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Is that even possible?

Whats wrong with Guy Gardener?

I hate the new 52. It needs to go back to hell where it came from.

Originally posted by Deadline
Whats wrong with Guy Gardener?

TBH I never liked him, his attitude, his Hairstyle, his general appearance and behaviour was just pure fail. He was also always the weakes of the GL, each comic I read with him he was just annoying and ineffective.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
TBH I never liked him, his attitude, his Hairstyle, his general appearance and behaviour was just pure fail. He was also always the weakes of the GL, each comic I read with him he was just annoying and ineffective.

His hairstyle used to really suck, looks alright now. Ah well I like his personality but if I was a GL with him we might end up punching each other up.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
TBH I never liked him, his attitude, his Hairstyle, his general appearance and behaviour was just pure fail. He was also always the weakes of the GL, each comic I read with him he was just annoying and ineffective.



Written in DC team books, sure, Guy was a joke.

In Green Lantern or Green Lantern Corps, Guy is a beast.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
TBH I never liked him, his attitude, his Hairstyle, his general appearance and behaviour was just pure fail. He was also always the weakes of the GL, each comic I read with him he was just annoying and ineffective.
Blasphemer sneer

Originally posted by Blair Wind

In Green Lantern or Green Lantern Corps, Guy is a beast.

I only know Guy from there so that might explain it.

"If I say be the brush be the brush, got it." LOL (or was it paint can't remember).

Originally posted by Galan007
And Superman/Batman was one of my favorite series' in the pre-Flashpoint era, from start to finish. I couldn't get enough of Superman/Batman...but I've been really sluggish checking out the DCnU. I'll probably do like what I did with Planet Hulk, the Galactus Seed, etc: I wait a couple of years until the series is condensed into a graphic novel or a single package in cellophane. It puts me behind the times, but then, I don't have to run to the comics' store as frequently.

Originally posted by -Pr-
McDuffie was an open Wonder Woman fan, and the "Usain Bolt vs Bruce Lee" thing was purely done to piss off some people on the forum and show them he was right.

Hah. That it's consistent with what's been shown between them prior is just coincidence, huh?

I mean, that's pretty much how it's gone in their fights prior to his run, and WW has a better track record against speedsters too.

You're too quick to leap to things being fandom bias.



I think the old 52 universes are gone completely, and it's just the new post-Flashpoint DCnU universe.

Originally posted by Digi
Yeah, it's a big pit of excrement trying to keep continuity in order for longer than about 6 months. Each new reboot just presents new problems, it doesn't erase the old. It's best not to think about it. No incarnation has been perfect.

And honestly, the biggest problems tend to come from big 'fixes' rather than just rolling with and explaining away what you've got.

Though some of the post-reboot stuff is just laziness (not deciding if Tim is Robin! Titans writer unsure if Titans exist!).

Originally posted by Q99
Hah. That it's consistent with what's been shown between them prior is just coincidence, huh?

I mean, that's pretty much how it's gone in their fights prior to his run, and WW has a better track record against speedsters too.

You're too quick to leap to things being fandom bias.

Don't go there, please.

Though it's funny that you accuse me of bias, all things considered.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't go there, please.

Though it's funny that you accuse me of bias, all things considered.


Oh, look at that catty backhanded insult.


You gonna take that shit Q?

I really don't see what the beef with the Usain Bruce Lee comparison is. Seems quite fair to me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Once Robinson came on board, Superman was terrible. It started out as barely average, and just descended in to mediocrity.

Him in McDuffie's JLA was bad too, sadly.

At least, imo. I thought that Johns "last of son of krypton" and "legion" stories were really good. The whole world of the supermen crossover was handled poorly but action came back with that saga that seemed to follow lex luthor after blackest night unfortunately, it lead into that saga with the multiple doomsdays . Wasnt there a doomsday made to kill other doomsdays in that saga?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Oh, look at that catty backhanded insult.


You gonna take that shit Q?

vin

Originally posted by Deadline
I really don't see what the beef with the Usain Bruce Lee comparison is. Seems quite fair to me.

It would be fair if it was at all accurate.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
I thought that Johns "last of son of krypton" and "legion" stories were really good. The whole world of the supermen crossover was handled poorly but action came back with that saga that seemed to follow lex luthor after blackest night unfortunately, it lead into that saga with the multiple doomsdays . Wasnt there a doomsday made to kill other doomsdays in that saga?

I don't remember. Johns' stuff was good; I have no complaints about that.

Originally posted by Q99
Hah. That it's consistent with what's been shown between them prior is just coincidence, huh?

I mean, that's pretty much how it's gone in their fights prior to his run, and WW has a better track record against speedsters too.

You're too quick to leap to things being fandom bias.

orly
Explain the backhand blitz in For Tomorrow or the ease with which he stops her attack in League of One then. Better record against speedsters? LOL, not even close. You are welcome to try and compare their record against speedsters though. The biased comment was funny as hell.

Originally posted by -Pr-
vin



It would be fair if it was at all accurate.



I don't remember. Johns' stuff was good; I have no complaints about that. found it.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/Doomslayer.jpg

Oh, that...

Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of that arc.

That dialogue. Holy shit.

With Convergence on the horizon, I can now officially say: "Called it!"

You think Convergence will actually undo it? Considering the Darkseid War is coming out afterwards I have my doubts.

No, no. The DCnU will stay intact. I was more referring to DC resurrecting the pre-Flashpoint universes. I saw the potential for that years ago.

So, three and a half years. Smallest gap yet between continuity shifting events, isn't it?

The gap between IC and FC was around 3 years as well, iirc.

Originally posted by Galan007
The gap between IC and FC was around 3 years as well, iirc.

IC had a little continuity change (Jason Todd coming back aaand... I forget what else. I know it introduced time punching but is it sad that I don't remember any effects of it? Definitely smaller than Zero Hour's effects), but I don't think Final Crisis had any at all, I think it's not until Flashpoint that you got a continuity shift.

http://r19.imgfast.net/users/1913/26/14/15/smiles/801234830.gif

If anything there is only new 52 now. Pre crisis and post crisis eras are forever gone and the new multiverse is just an evolved version of previous earths.

Originally posted by Q99
IC had a little continuity change (Jason Todd coming back aaand... I forget what else. I know it introduced time punching but is it sad that I don't remember any effects of it? Definitely smaller than Zero Hour's effects), but I don't think Final Crisis had any at all, I think it's not until Flashpoint that you got a continuity shift. Did Identity Crisis or Infinite Crisis even happen now?

^ No. Well actually, with Convergence maybe, but I didn't read into that at all. But for the New 52 universe only those didn't happen.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Did Identity Crisis or Infinite Crisis even happen now? According to JL #40(which I *thought* was set post-Convergence), ALL of DC's major events still happened.

And according to Brainiac himself, the actions of SBP(during IC) and Mr. Mind(during 52) are what helped transform him into the Godlike entity he was during Convergence:
http://i.imgur.com/7PormZW.jpg
So essentially, without their 'help' he wouldn't have evolved to his current state/power/intellect, and as such, likely wouldn't have been able to set forth the events which undid COIE.

Paradox.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Did Identity Crisis or Infinite Crisis even happen now?

From my understanding, yes and no. For some universes (the 52), the events played out like they did. But for others, CoIE did not happen and so they are existing in a pre-crisis state.

http://i.imgur.com/GRarOo3h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CexZ37Ch.jpg
-Action Comics #976

Nice to see Superman doing the impossible again! Here is a interview with Dan Jurgens and Peter J. Tomasi, done by Comics Alliance.

http://comicsalliance.com/superman-reborn-exclusive-interview/

.

Here is the complete scene for context:

http://i.imgur.com/FBL4VWjm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/addpQLZm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qkldquim.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZVjapJvm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ow5Snp2m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/VosknZHm.jpg