Odin vs DC Team

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keiththegreat
Odin

vs

Black Lantern Kal-L
GA Superboy Prime
Sundipped OWAW Superman

There is no BFR.

fight in a closed arena the size of a planet with a source of yellow sunlight that cannot be blocked or destroyed.

Delta1938
Didn't GA Superboy Prime make Mxy his b!tch?

zopzop
They will wear him the phuck down and win eventually. OWAW Superman may die in the battle though but BL Kal-L and GA SBP will make it to the finish line victorious.

GA SBP was no joke surviving that universe wrecking blast point blank. I don't think Odin can match that blast.

Diesldude
Odin tries to headbutt superman's fists and goes into Odins sleep.

Galan007
Team.

Originally posted by zopzop
GA SBP was no joke surviving that universe wrecking blast point blank. I don't think Odin can match that blast. Prime no longer had the amp when he tanked said explosion.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Galan007
Team.

Prime no longer had the amp when he tanked said explosion. Correction he still had the amp but it was all but gone at that point so ha!

Galan007
^ Just before Prime ripped open his armor, Monarch said: "The energy you absorbed from that Guardian is all used up. You're shrinking back down, kid."

So IF Prime still had some Guardian-powa left(which doesn't seem to have been the case, imo), it wasn't much at all.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Just before Prime ripped open his armor, Monarch said: "The energy you absorbed from that Guardian is all used up. You're shrinking back down, kid."

So IF Prime still had some Guardian-powa left(which doesn't seem to have been the case, imo), it wasn't much at all.
Suck me

ozz81
DC team , Unless odin is allowed to stop time in this battle etc then hence he shud win it..

Galan007
True. Didn't consider time-stoppage, tbh... Odin definitely wins if he pulls that ability out of his ass.

Harbinger
*waits for someone to post the "Time is the one thing even Odin cannot control" scan.

Delta1938
Why do I have the feeling that Keith's next thread is going to be this team VS WB Hulk and Hulk gets 975,193,321,472 unanswered punches on each of team DC, gets 5,126,321,456 unanswered thunderclaps and Team DC has to stand still and throw their punches while Hulk can move freely?

Batman-Prime
Team wins, solid.

Colossus-Big C
Prime solos, I doubt if odin can even hurt him.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
True. Didn't consider time-stoppage, tbh... Odin definitely wins if he pulls that ability out of his ass.
Even byrne superman has overcame time-stoppage on a global scale by sheer speed.

Galan007
Cool.

Conversely, Superman 1M (who is leaps and bounds more powerful than Byrne-era Supes) was frozen in a time-loop, courtesy of Epoch, for a lengthy amount of time(long enough to constitute a forum win, at least.) IF Odin is permitted to utilize temporal manipulation here, I definitely think he wins.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
Cool.

Conversely, Superman 1M (who is leaps and bounds more powerful than Byrne-era Supes) was frozen in a time-loop, courtesy of Epoch, for a lengthy amount of time(long enough to constitute a forum win, at least.) IF Odin is permitted to utilize temporal manipulation here, I definitely think he wins.
Being more powerful means nothing in terms of application of powers though. Also the good thing is Odin is nowhere near as skilled as Epoch in time-manipulation or SM1M isn't in this thread and neither does his performance affect these guys. Also didn't you give normal prime the win against SM1M?

cdtm
Originally posted by Delta1938
Didn't GA Superboy Prime make Mxy his b!tch?

He had some help.

But yeah, he ripped into the 5th dimension, kidnapped Mxy, and tortured him.. And even after that alt universe Zatanna stopped depowering him, Mxy still decided to run away instead of go and teach him a lesson..

Galan007
Let's not be silly here. S1M is superior to Byrne era Supes in every possible way. If he was incapacitated by time manip. Everyone on the team would be as well. No question about it.

cdtm
Originally posted by Galan007
Let's not be silly here. S1M is superior to Byrne era Supes in every possible way. If he was incapacitated by time manip. Everyone on the team would be as well. No question about it.

Epoch isn't just any time manipulator, though.

He's well beyond Skyfather level, imo... He was an adversary of Hourman, who's top tier when it comes to anything with the word "time" in it.

Delta1938
Originally posted by cdtm
He had some help.

But yeah, he ripped into the 5th dimension, kidnapped Mxy, and tortured him.. And even after that alt universe Zatanna stopped depowering him, Mxy still decided to run away instead of go and teach him a lesson..

Even if he had help, if he left Mxy in a state that he ran, that says a lot. I haven't read it yet, was reading through COUNTDOWN and the tie-ins, then got a little burnt-out and moved to other stuff. Must find where I was at and get back to it soon.

And Galan, other people are making the arguments about Odin's time manipulation ability, so I'll just make one point. How LIKELY would Odin be to resort to it even if he can do the things you're bringing-up have happened to Superman M*?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
Let's not be silly here. S1M is superior to Byrne era Supes in every possible way. If he was incapacitated by time manip. Everyone on the team would be as well. No question about it.
That's why ABC logic fails here. Also feats of odin trapping people in time-loops?

Galan007
Originally posted by cdtm
Epoch isn't just any time manipulator, though.

He's well beyond Skyfather level, imo... He was an adversary of Hourman, who could manipulate time in ways Odin's never proven capable of doing.. Epoch incapacitated S1M by freezing him in a timeloop-- a feat that hardly warrants a '> skyfather' ranking. Heck, Zemo /w moonstones beat Genis the EXACT same way-- and Zemo was well below Odins level. Just saying.

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why ABC logic fails here. Also feats of odin trapping people in time-loops? KT was able to freeze time with a gesture. Assuming Odin is incapable of such is hysterical.

Odin freezes time. Game over.

cdtm
Originally posted by Galan007
Epoch incapacitated S1M by freezing him in a timeloop-- a feat that hardly warrants a '> skyfather' ranking. Heck, Zemo /w moonstones beat Genis the EXACT same way-- and Zemo was well below Odins level. Just saying.

Didn't Zemo with moonstones overpower Grandmaster?

He's above trans, isn't he?

And Genis, he did take Lord Thor's hammer throw, than knocked him down..

abhilegend
People don't recognize just how monstrous this feat is


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_NanosecondInteraction1.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_NanosecondInteraction2.jpg

In order to overcome the time-stop superman first had to reach speed enough to move into a fraction of a nanosecond and then had to overcome the time stop. He did it effortlessely.

Galan007
I don't remember that. I thought besting Genis was his best feat.

And Rulk killed GM. The guy was weaksauce. stick out tongue

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
KT was able to freeze time with a gesture. Assuming Odin is incapable of such is hysterical.

Odin freezes time. Game over.
Stopping time=/=Time loops.
AlsoOriginally posted by abhilegend
People don't recognize just how monstrous this feat is


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_NanosecondInteraction1.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_NanosecondInteraction2.jpg

In order to overcome the time-stop superman first had to reach speed enough to move into a fraction of a nanosecond and then had to overcome the time stop. He did it effortlessely.

cdtm
Originally posted by abhilegend
People don't recognize just how monstrous this feat is


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_NanosecondInteraction1.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_NanosecondInteraction2.jpg

In order to overcome the time-stop superman first had to reach speed enough to move into a fraction of a nanosecond and then had to overcome the time stop. He did it effortlessely.

Looks like unconsciously, too. He was still wearing his Clark Kent outfit, so he clearly wasn't putting a lot of effort behind it, and just couldn't help but do it..

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't remember that. I thought besting Genis was his best feat.

And Rulk killed GM. The guy was weaksauce. stick out tongue
I don't recall the GM scene , but the Genis incident is definitely legit . In my book , that reduced Genis' stock considerably .

Galan007
^ Supes=\=S1M. Therefore a timeloop isn't required. smile

As for the scans you double posted: I get that you enjoy using decades old stuff, but hopefully you realize how stupid that is. If time is stopped, a character cannot keep accelerating. But hey, I get it... Supes is in this thread so the team will win regardless. thumb up

Delta1938
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Supes=\=S1M. Therefore a timeloop isn't required. smile

As for the scans you double posted: I get that you enjoy using decades old stuff, but hopefully you realize how stupid that is. If time is stopped, a character cannot keep accelerating. But hey, I get it... Supes is in this thread so the team will win regardless. thumb up

Superman overcoming time being stopped makes as much sense as Captain America's shield bouncing or hurting anybody.

cdtm
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I don't recall the GM scene , but the Genis incident is definitely legit . In my book , that reduced Genis' stock considerably .

It happened in Thunderbolts, when Zemo went from tweener to full out hero.

And than back to villain again, who Songbird had to put down by breaking his moonstones with a high pitched note.

Kind of stupid, really, being able to break the moonstones like you would a crystal glass..

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Supes=\=S1M. Therefore a timeloop isn't required. smile

As for the scans you double posted: I get that you enjoy using decades old stuff, but hopefully you realize how stupid that is. If time is stopped, a character cannot keep accelerating. But hey, I get it... Supes is in this thread so the team will win regardless. thumb up
Lulz. Also superman can't overcome time freeze even if he has done so because another character can't see time-loop and when he saw it he overcame it easily. Another lulz. You bring decades old fact when nearly every odin feat is from 40 years ago. Should I post the scan where odin admitted he can't control time? Amusingly you gave supermen win where I never said so.

cdtm
Come to think of it....

Waverrider froze Superman on no less than three occasions, during that Armageddon 2001 story.

Believed he'd be capable of killing him in that state too, if he was the Monarch.

abhilegend
Originally posted by cdtm
Come to think of it....

Waverrider froze Superman on no less than three occasions, during that Armageddon 2001 story.

Believed he'd be capable of killing him in that state too, if he was the Monarch.
Waverider also destroyed a whole timeline in that arc. Waverider>>Odin in time manipulation. Also galan showed me the error of my ways, canon feats are non-usable if they are two decades old.
Originally posted by abhilegend
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ca0a615i8485/prv8485_pg8.jpg

Galan007
^ I mention the stupidity in those old scans because if time were truly stopped, Supes could not have continued accelerating. Hopefully you can see the hilarity there.

And yes you could post that scan of Odin, just like I could post a scan of KT or Odin himself freezing time with a wave of his hand.

I didn't give superman the win, I gave the TEAM the win-- but ONLY if time manip. isn't allowed. If it IS allowed, Odin stomps.

Galan007
Lol @ the blown up scan, as if anyone with a brain will buy into the notion that Odin is incapable of time manip.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
Lol @ the blown up scan, as if anyone with a brain will buy into the notion that Odin is incapable of time manip.

He's not incapable of it, especially when he's done it before and so did the overall much less formidable King Thor. There was a thread made as soon as that comic was released in an attempt to "prove" Odin can't stop time, iirc.

Do you think Odin's telepathy is a factor here as well, Galan?

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not incapable of it, especially when he's done it before and so did the overall much less formidable King Thor. There was a thread made as soon as that comic was released in an attempt to "prove" Odin can't stop time, iirc.

Do you think Odin's telepathy is a factor here as well, Galan? thumb up

You know, I'd totally overlooked TP, tbh. It would definitely be a factor, imo.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I mention the stupidity in those old scans because if time were truly stopped, Supes could not have continued accelerating. Hopefully you can see the hilarity there.

And yes you could post that scan of Odin, just like I could post a scan of KT or Odin himself freezing time with a wave of his hand.

I didn't give superman the win, I gave the TEAM the win-- but ONLY if time manip. isn't allowed. If it IS allowed, Odin stomps.
Superman has done many feats like these. Those don't get thrown away because you don't like it or they don't make sense.
Again feats of odin applying time-loops? King Thor freezing time is irrelevant. Also I recall Terene helping king thor freeze time. Odin doesn't get king thor's feats anyway since reigning isn't canon for 616 reality.

You gave them a win anyway and I didn't. Your barb at me is hypocritical at best in this thread.Originally posted by Galan007
Lol @ the blown up scan, as if anyone with a brain will buy into the notion that Odin is incapable of time manip.
Yeah, like you're ignoring superman overcoming time-stop, right? Choose and pick much?

-Pr-
Superman overcoming time-stop would be tricky, especially seeing as Odin wields it so well.

Not sure who wins though.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has done many feats like these. Those don't get thrown away because you don't like it or they don't make sense.
Again feats of odin applying time-loops? King Thor freezing time is irrelevant. Also I recall Terene helping king thor freeze time. Odin doesn't get king thor's feats anyway since reigning isn't canon for 616 reality.

You gave them a win anyway and I didn't. Your barb at me is hypocritical at best in this thread.
Yeah, like you're ignoring superman overcoming time-stop, right? Choose and pick much?

Reigning is canon for Thor and related characters, powers, weapons, etc, etc. The future would never come to pass due to King Thor returning to the present and warning Thor not to abandon his humanity/humility, but it's still canon.

Odin, being much more formidable and powerful overall, would logically be able to perform any feat King Thor did with the Odin Force. Rune King Thor, being more formidable and powerful overall than Odin - to say nothing of his near omniscience - would logically be able to perform any feat Odin did.

And there's the fact that Odin has actually stopped time before and more than once, too, so it's a moot point.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I mention the stupidity in those old scans because if time were truly stopped, Supes could not have continued accelerating. Hopefully you can see the hilarity there.

And yes you could post that scan of Odin, just like I could post a scan of KT or Odin himself freezing time with a wave of his hand.

I didn't give superman the win, I gave the TEAM the win-- but ONLY if time manip. isn't allowed. If it IS allowed, Odin stomps.

Like I said before, Superman overcoming time being stopped makes just as much sense as what Captain America's shield does.

And you never answered my question on the likelyhood of Odin manipulating time.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Reigning is canon for Thor and related characters, powers, weapons, etc, etc. The future would never come to pass due to King Thor returning to the present and warning Thor not to abandon his humanity/humility, but it's still canon.

Odin, being much more formidable and powerful overall, would logically be able to perform any feat King Thor did with the Odin Force. Rune King Thor, being more formidable and powerful overall than Odin - to say nothing of his near omniscience - would logically be able to perform any feat Odin did.

And there's the fact that Odin has actually stopped time before and more than once, too, so it's a moot point.
No, it isn't. Simple as that. Any tempering from past creates an alternate timeline and seeing as how KT stop time in an alternate future, it isn't applicable to odin. I never questioned Odin freezing time, its creating time loops I'm questioning.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it isn't. Simple as that. Any tempering from past creates an alternate timeline and seeing as how KT stop time in an alternate future, it isn't applicable to odin. I never questioned Odin freezing time, its creating time loops I'm questioning.

It is canon. It being given it's own Earth designation doesn't make the events of the Reigning non-canon, especially when they've been referenced after the event. It's applicable to Odin seeing as King Thor, while powerful and wise in his own right, is ultimately inferior to Odin. It makes no sense to assume that Odin couldn't perform any feat that King Thor did if you look at what Odin is ultimately capable of.

Personally haven't seen Odin create a repeating time loop on panel. I don't think it would be beyond his capabilities, but that's speculation on my part.

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Reigning is canon for Thor and related characters, powers, weapons, etc, etc. The future would never come to pass due to King Thor returning to the present and warning Thor not to abandon his humanity/humility, but it's still canon.

Odin, being much more formidable and powerful overall, would logically be able to perform any feat King Thor did with the Odin Force. Rune King Thor, being more formidable and powerful overall than Odin - to say nothing of his near omniscience - would logically be able to perform any feat Odin did.

And there's the fact that Odin has actually stopped time before and more than once, too, so it's a moot point. thumb up Perfectly said.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I never questioned Odin freezing time, its creating time loops I'm questioning. Who said anything about Odin creating time-loops? I mentioned that was how S1M was beaten, but S1M isn't in this thread.

So far as we know, freezing time should work just fine against the team.

Igniz
Originally posted by abhilegend
Waverider also destroyed a whole timeline in that arc. Waverider>>Odin in time manipulation. Also galan showed me the error of my ways, canon feats are non-usable if they are two decades old.

That scene is misunderstood by a lot of People.Did it bother you to think that the enemy in Fear Itself was Odin's brother the Serpent(Cul Borson)?Cause both Odin and his brother the Serpent belong to the same stats of power.They're both skyfather level.So even if Odin did stop time, wouldn't the Serpent just undo it?Not to mention Gods in MU seems to be immune to time stop.Unless of course higher powers or artifacts that are capable of stopping time are used against this Gods.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It is canon. It being given it's own Earth designation doesn't make the events of the Reigning non-canon, especially when they've been referenced after the event. It's applicable to Odin seeing as King Thor, while powerful and wise in his own right, is ultimately inferior to Odin. It makes no sense to assume that Odin couldn't perform any feat that King Thor did if you look at what Odin is ultimately capable of.

Personally haven't seen Odin create a repeating time loop on panel. I don't think it would be beyond his capabilities, but that's speculation on my part.
Nope. It isn't canon. Being referenced as part of 616 reality? Where? Why are we using ABC logic when Odin himself has stopped time? Yeah, that's what this entire argument of galan is, ABC logic and speculations.

JakeTheBank
Personally, I didn't take Odin's statement literally, but more metaphorically (which makes sense considering Odin's actually displayed time manipulation more than once). Hela and Loki are capable of "bending" time; Odin, who is significantly more powerful than the two of them combined, should be able to stop it outright (again ignoring the fact he already has).

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, that's what this entire argument of galan is, ABC logic and speculations. I used not a lick of ABC logic. Don't start playing the blame game just because no one is buying what you're trying to sell.

Thor has stopped time. King Thor has stopped time. Odin has stopped time. Clearly the Odinpower can be used to stop time-- and stopping time is all that needs to happen here for Odin to win. Simple.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up Perfectly said.

Who said anything about Odin creating time-loops? I mentioned that was how S1M was beaten, but S1M isn't in this thread.

So far as we know, freezing time should work just fine against the team.
Glad you changed your time-loop theory. Except it doesn't. You putting fingers in your ears and singing louldly wouldn't change it. Try again.Originally posted by Igniz
That scene is misunderstood by a lot of People.Did it bother you to think that the enemy in Fear Itself was Odin's brother the Serpent(Cul Borson)?Cause both Odin and his brother the Serpent belong to the same stats of power.They're both skyfather level.So even if Odin did stop time, wouldn't the Serpent just undo it?Not to mention Gods in MU seems to be immune to time stop.Unless of course higher powers or artifacts that are capable of stopping time are used against this Gods.
Odin said specifically he can't control time not that he is capable of doing and serpent would overcome it. Simple as that.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. It isn't canon. Being referenced as part of 616 reality? Where? Why are we using ABC logic when Odin himself has stopped time? Yeah, that's what this entire argument of galan is, ABC logic and speculations.

After the Reigning, Thor mentions the events which occurred during the Ragnarok cycle and laments his arrogance which lead to him completely losing his connection to the Odin Force as well as losing the son he would never know again (Magni). So yes, the events are canon as far as Thor and Thor related characters go. Just because that future was averted doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Not sure why we're arguing against time manipulation on Odin's part to begin with, tbh.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Galan007
I used not a lick of ABC logic. Don't start playing the blame game just because no one is buying what you're trying to sell.

Thor has stopped time. King Thor has stopped time. Odin has stopped time. Clearly the Odinpower can be used to stop time-- and stopping time is all that needs to happen here for Odin to win. Simple.

Pretty much what it comes down to.

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
Glad you changed your time-loop theory. Except it doesn't. You putting fingers in your ears and singing louldly wouldn't change it. Try again. I never once stated that Odin would use a time loop here. Not once.

I merely stated that even the highest of high Superman (S1M) was incapacitated by sub-Skyfather-level time manipulation(a time-loop.) Read my posts before blindly responding to them.

Time freeze wins this. Every single time.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
I used not a lick of ABC logic. Don't start playing the blame game just because no one is buying what you're trying to sell.

Thor has stopped time. King Thor has stopped time. Odin has stopped time. Clearly the Odinpower can be used to stop time-- and stopping time is all that needs to happen here for Odin to win. Simple.
Lulz. If this isn't ABC logic, I don't know what is
Originally posted by Galan007
Let's not be silly here. S1M is superior to Byrne era Supes in every possible way. If he was incapacitated by time manip. Everyone on the team would be as well. No question about it.
Superman has overcome total time-stop by speed. Both prime and Kal-L are faster than him. Time stop is ineffectual. Simple.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. If this isn't ABC logic, I don't know what is

Tbh, it looks more like AB logic.

Odin has stopped time;

therefore;

Odin will stop time.

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. If this isn't ABC logic, I don't know what is You realize that isn't ABC logic, right? It's common sense.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has overcome total time-stop by speed. Makes no sense. If time is stopped, speed no longer exists. Furthermore, Supes has been incapacitated by time stops several times-- Waverider freezing him was already mentioned. Get over it.

Galan007
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tbh, it looks more like AB logic.

Odin has stopped time;

therefore;

Odin will stop time. laughing out loud thumb up

Delta1938
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. If this isn't ABC logic, I don't know what is

Superman has overcome total time-stop by speed. Both prime and Kal-L are faster than him. Time stop is ineffectual. Simple.

You forgot that Superman's had two permanent power-ups and has a massive, massive temporary power-up in this scenario, making Superman faster than Superman. whistle

Igniz
Originally posted by Galan007
You realize that isn't ABC logic, right? It's common sense.

Makes no sense. If time is stopped, speed no longer exists. Furthermore, Supes has been incapacitated by time stops several times-- Waverider freezing him was already mentioned. Get over it.

thumb up

Agreed.As I mentioned before, the only ones that can still move in Odin's time stop are Gods.Surtur,Skagg,Balder and Thor were still able to move while the humans/mortals on earth were stopped in time and transported in another dimension.And abhi using Superman still able to move through sheer speeds in a time stop is like Thor using sheer speeds in order to move in Odin's time stops.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
After the Reigning, Thor mentions the events which occurred during the Ragnarok cycle and laments his arrogance which lead to him completely losing his connection to the Odin Force as well as losing the son he would never know again (Magni). So yes, the events are canon as far as Thor and Thor related characters go. Just because that future was averted doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Not sure why we're arguing against time manipulation on Odin's part to begin with, tbh.
Omniscience, hello. The fact that magni would never born also seals the deal that reigning is non-canon. How's something canon when it didn't happen or wouldn't happen in reality?Originally posted by Galan007
I never once stated that Odin would use a time loop here. Not once.

I merely stated that even the highest of high Superman (S1M) was incapacitated by sub-Skyfather-level time manipulation(a time-loop.) Read my posts before blindly responding to them.

Time freeze wins this. Every single time.
Yeah, you just stated that since SM1M got incapacitated in a time loop for a few moments which you conveniently forgot to state, odin's time freeze would defeat supermen which is dumb as hell as those two reasoning have no resemblence at all. If we forget supermen's feats, maybe. Time is also frozen in phantom zone and speed force, that didn't stop prime at all.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Omniscience, hello. The fact that magni would never born also seals the deal that reigning is non-canon. How's something canon when it didn't happen or wouldn't happen in reality?
Yeah, you just stated that since SM1M got incapacitated in a time loop for a few moments which you conveniently forgot to state, odin's time freeze would defeat supermen which is dumb as hell as those two reasoning have no resemblence at all. If we forget supermen's feats, maybe. Time is also frozen in phantom zone and speed force, that didn't stop prime at all.

Except, it is canon. And it's referenced, more than once, by Thor after the arc concludes. The events did happen. That timeline wasn't erased. King Thor merely went back in time to warn his younger self to not be a phucking douche bag.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
You realize that isn't ABC logic, right? It's common sense. Its ABC logic at its extreme. Give the speed feats of SM1M which are superior to superman. The guy had to slingshot himself to achieve lightspeed ffs!

Phantom zone and speed force disagree. He has overcame it twice too. Waverider>>>>Odin in time manipulation, so its moot anyway.

-Pr-
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. If this isn't ABC logic, I don't know what is

Superman has overcome total time-stop by speed. Both prime and Kal-L are faster than him. Time stop is ineffectual. Simple.

You need to stop right there.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Igniz
thumb up

Agreed.As I mentioned before, the only ones that can still move in Odin's time stop are Gods.Surtur,Skagg,Balder and Thor were still able to move while the humans/mortals on earth were stopped in time and transported in another dimension.And abhi using Superman still able to move through sheer speeds in a time stop is like Thor using sheer speeds in order to move in Odin's time stops.
They didn't overcome it through the speed. They were spared of the time-stop. Its like superman moving in a null sphere where time didn't exist at all when waverider killed matthew ryder. That's not overcoming time stop.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except, it is canon. And it's referenced, more than once, by Thor after the arc concludes. The events did happen. That timeline wasn't erased. King Thor merely went back in time to warn his younger self to not be a phucking douche bag.
Not enough to being canon. Thor referencing the fight with the future gladiator wouldn't make the time-dilation feat canon for present gladiator. That became an alternate reality like when Age of Apocalypse or countless other examples. For reference many characters like Rogue and wolverine retained its knowledge. It doesn't makes AOA canon for 616 reality.Originally posted by -Pr-
You need to stop right there.
What did I do this time?

Delta1938
Originally posted by abhilegend
What did I do this time?

Warned for being too awesome.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Time is also frozen in phantom zone and speed force, that didn't stop prime at all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its like superman moving in a null sphere where time didn't exist at all when waverider killed matthew ryder. That's not overcoming time stop.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Delta1938
Warned for being too awesome.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2641935_o.gif

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Frozen time=/=Time didn't exist at all.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2641935_o.gif

He might've needed that boost to get him through his day and you had to be a douche and ruin it. miffed

PillarofOsiris
The Reigning happened. it's canon.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Delta1938
He might've needed that boost to get him through his day and you had to be a douche and ruin it. miffed

http://i.imgur.com/G0YSL.gif

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, you just stated that since SM1M got incapacitated in a time loop for a few moments which you conveniently forgot to state, odin's time freeze would defeat supermen which is dumb as hell as those two reasoning have no resemblence at all. If we forget supermen's feats, maybe.

Time is also frozen in phantom zone and speed force, that didn't stop prime at all. Again, a guy who has more super powers/senses than anyone else on this team, that help him deal with time manipulation(S1M), was still incapacitated by sub-Skyfather-level time manipulation(a time-loop.) Odin >> sub-Skyfather-level feats. That is the only reason I mentioned said instance. I've stated this several times now, so what isn't computing?

Time isn't frozen in the PZ-- proof of this can be seen by Prime not being frozen in time. And Prime was not dropped into the heart of the speed force, he was dropped into some parallel reality, via the speed force-- unless you believe the heart of the speed force contains a red sun as well as the materials he needed to build his armor. Think.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Phantom zone and speed force disagree. Good thing the PZ has no meaning in this thread. Good thing none of the members on the team utilize the speed force.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has overcame it twice too. Waverider>>>>Odin in time manipulation, so its moot anyway. You're telling me that Waverider can stop time better than Odin/the Odinpower? You realize how funny that sounds? If time is completely stopped by one guy, it cannot be stopped more by another guy. Think.

Furthermore, when Wally and Zoom were battling at such speeds that time was effectively stopped around them, Superman was shown as one of the heroes that were frozen in time and helpless in the battle. Where was his 'nanosecond-time-breaking-speed' then?

A time-stop will work on this team. No doubt about it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You need to stop right there. Seriously. What is this guy's issue?

JakeTheBank
^ Superman.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Seriously. What is this guy's issue?

Superman is his lord and savior, people need to respect his religious beliefs. evil face

Galan007
You know, I used to think Avalonofthewind/Avlon was as fanboyish as someone could get with Superman, but not even he took it to such ridiculous extremes.

Tell me, Jake: when did it become debatable for Superman(sun-amped or not) to get trounced by a Skyfather that can give Galactus himself a run for his money?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Superman is his lord and savior, people need to respect his religious beliefs. evil face All hail Superman! pray

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
You know, I used to think Avalonofthewind/Avlon was as fanboyish as someone could get with Superman, but not even he took it to such ridiculous extremes.

Tell me, Jake: when did it become debatable for Superman(sun-amped or not) to get trounced by a Skyfather that can give Galactus himself a run for his money?

All hail Superman! pray

Sometimes I think he's joking at first, but then he decides somewhere along the line to just phuck it and make a serious and prolonged argument.

Idk, around the same time that Odin is suddenly now the single most overrated person on the forum (ironically, a sentiment shared by people who generally vote for Superman) and the idea that Odin shouldn't be anywhere near Galactus' league...in spite of him having feats prior to their confrontation to make an argument for it and the fact that his battle with Galactus forced the big guy to exert himself in some fashion and heal the damage done to his form. no expression

I'll never worship a false god, not when my faith is steeled by Doom.

Galan007

Newjak
I've always questioned GA SBP's feat of tanking a universe destroyed.

Mostly cause he was more or less BFRed by it. The samething happened with the Gaurdion Amp he got. It makes me question how much force from the blast he actually tanked, and how much it was he got taken away before he took the full force.

JakeTheBank

the Darkone
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Reigning is canon for Thor and related characters, powers, weapons, etc, etc. The future would never come to pass due to King Thor returning to the present and warning Thor not to abandon his humanity/humility, but it's still canon.

Odin, being much more formidable and powerful overall, would logically be able to perform any feat King Thor did with the Odin Force. Rune King Thor, being more formidable and powerful overall than Odin - to say nothing of his near omniscience - would logically be able to perform any feat Odin did.

And there's the fact that Odin has actually stopped time before and more than once, too, so it's a moot point.

thumb up Good Job Jake

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
I've always questioned GA SBP's feat of tanking a universe destroyed.

Mostly cause he was more or less BFRed by it. The samething happened with the Gaurdion Amp he got. It makes me question how much force from the blast he actually tanked, and how much it was he got taken away before he took the full force. Prime was BFR'd by the blast(sent hurling uncontrollably through time), but those same universe-busting energies first had to strike him before he could be BFR'd. So he definitely tanked said energies initially.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The constant exposure to yellow sun may have perhaps addled his mind.

I think people sometimes get too hung up over the fact over Galactus' status/importance to the universe, thinking it should always correlate with his power level, which isn't the case. Galactus' showings, more than most, is dependent on the plot (ie. hunger) at the time. He's definitely superior to Odin, but based on their fight (unless people want to ignore it, which I don't blame them because it was ridiculous), Odin wasn't the insignificant ant some wish he was in comparison to Galactus. His feats independent of their battle also suggest that while Odin would lose, he'd put up anywhere from a decent struggle to a good fight.

If only Darkseid discovered the true Anti-Life Formula... Agreed on all accounts. thumb up

TheGodKiller
@Galan and Jake : As far as the Galactus/Odin comparison goees , yeah it depends on plot . Odin would likely prevail w/o much effort against a hungry Galactus , if Galactus is fed on a single world the result is the same as Mighty Thor # 6 , and if Galactus is fed on 4 worlds or more , Odin gets trounced with relative ease .

Edit : It really is surprising that people are questioning Odin's ability to stop time .

Galan007
Well, yeah. I don't think any logical person would disagree with that.

All we are saying is that many people feel there is a gargantuan gap in power between an average/regular/normal-level Galactus, and Odin. Simply put: there is a difference between them (ie. G is more powerful) but the difference is not overly vast-- historically, Odin's feats are enough to show us that he can (and did) put up a good fight vs. G... He's certainly no pushover.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
Prime was BFR'd by the blast(sent hurling uncontrollably through time), but those same universe-busting energies first had to strike him before he could be BFR'd. So he definitely tanked said energies initially.

Agreed on all accounts. thumb up Why exactly does the energies touching him equate to him tanking the blast?

Obviously something different happened with SBP as everything else except the Monitor was destroyed. Nothing else, including the Monitor, got banished to another timeline. The Monitor part leads me to believe that the blast itself didn't cause the temporal exchange otherwise the Monitor would have also gone to another timeline.

The samething happened with the Guardian Sacrifice Blast, which also powered him up.

I have a hard time believing he completely tanked something that transported him to another place and in the case of GS attack powering him up.

I'm not arguing SBP isn't insanely powerful I just don't equate that feat to meaning you need something over Universal level destruction to phase him as that has not been the case in the past and I think that feat is a bit dubious in nature.

Batman-Prime
Imho I think each of those chars would give Odin a good fight. GA and sunamped Supes should be near or on the same level as Odin, together they win this.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Why exactly does the energies touching him equate to him tanking the blast?

Obviously something different happened with SBP as everything else except the Monitor was destroyed. Nothing else, including the Monitor, got banished to another timeline. The Monitor part leads me to believe that the blast itself didn't cause the temporal exchange otherwise the Monitor would have also gone to another timeline.

The samething happened with the Guardian Sacrifice Blast, which also powered him up.

I have a hard time believing he completely tanked something that transported him to another place and in the case of GS attack powering him up.

I'm not arguing SBP isn't insanely powerful I just don't equate that feat to meaning you need something over Universal level destruction to phase him as that has not been the case in the past and I think that feat is a bit dubious in nature. The initial energies that Monarch released set off a chain reaction that ultimately destroyed that universe-- Prime was definitely struck by those initial energies, as he was more or less on top of Monarch when he detonated:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190268/Countdown13p17.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190269/Countdown13p18.jpg.html

Next thing we know, TT is pulling Prime out of the timestream, as he was hurling through it uncontrollably:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190267/4.jpg.html
I think it's pretty obvious that Monarch's energies striking Prime are what BFR'd him-- there's literally no other explanation. /shrug

Aside from that, every single time Captain Atom/Monarch has detonated in the past(including THIS instance) he was BFR'd to another universe, and/or point in time. The same thing likely happened with Prime, due to how close he was to the initial release of quantum energies.

...And the Monitor only survived because he used a force-field to shield himself from the explosion.

KuRuPT Thanosi
I love how people dismiss the TP or Time stop feats as not being able to work based on the scans on page 1.. LULZ

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Galan007
The initial energies that Monarch released set off a chain reaction that ultimately destroyed that universe-- Prime was definitely struck by those initial energies, as he was more or less on top of Monarch when he detonated:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190268/Countdown13p17.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190269/Countdown13p18.jpg.html

Next thing we know, TT is pulling Prime out of the timestream, as he was hurling through it uncontrollably:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190267/4.jpg.html
I think it's pretty obvious that Monarch's energies striking Prime are what BFR'd him. /shrug

Aside from that, every single time Captain Atom/Monarch has detonated(including THIS instance) he was BFR'd to another universe, and/or point in time. The same thing likely happened with Prime, due to how close he was to the initial release of quantum energies.

...And the Monitor only survived because he used a force-field to shield himself from the explosion.

Question though, and maybe I'm not understanding something here... if the blast BFR'd prime... did he really tank the whole universal destroying blast then?

Galan007
^ Yes, because those energies STILL struck him (that's what caused the BFR.)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I love how people dismiss the TP or Time stop feats as not being able to work based on the scans on page 1.. LULZ thumb up I find that equally laughable as well.

Diesldude
I agree that Odin can time stop and manipulate time but how will that help if time stop didnt work on a weaker superman?

Galan007
You realize that if time is stopped, Superman cannot continue to accelerate his speed, right? That feat becomes even more bogus when you look at other instanceS(plural) where Superman has been incapacitated/frozen by 'true' time stops-- some of which have already been mentioned.

Silent Master
I think that people are confusing time being slowed down with time being stopped, speed can overcome the former, but it's useless for the latter.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
The initial energies that Monarch released set off a chain reaction that ultimately destroyed that universe-- Prime was definitely struck by those initial energies, as he was more or less on top of Monarch when he detonated:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190268/Countdown13p17.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190269/Countdown13p18.jpg.html

Next thing we know, TT is pulling Prime out of the timestream, as he was hurling through it uncontrollably:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13190267/4.jpg.html
I think it's pretty obvious that Monarch's energies striking Prime are what BFR'd him-- there's literally no other explanation. /shrug

Aside from that, every single time Captain Atom/Monarch has detonated in the past(including THIS instance) he was BFR'd to another universe, and/or point in time. The same thing likely happened with Prime, due to how close he was to the initial release of quantum energies.

...And the Monitor only survived because he used a force-field to shield himself from the explosion. Did I say the energies didn't touch him or that they weren't involved in the BFR. I've never argued that point.

I said why does him getting touched by the energies mean he Tanked the attack.

Obviously the attack effected him differently than everything else in the vicinity of the attack. I know Monitor survived by using his shields but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't get time displaced, nor did everyone else caught in the blast.

And the fact that Superman didn't remain within the dead Universe afterwards also makes it suspect for me.

I'll use the Guardian Attack.

The Guardian blows himself up but all it does is send SBP to another universe but not only did he survive he absorbed some of the energies obviously. I wouldn't say he tanked that attack because there was obviously other things at play.

Same with the Monarch scene. Even though he gets touched by these energies something happens where he gets BFRed.

That's twice now where he has taken high profile attacks and has been sent to another point in either space or time.

It seems more to me that SBP has some kind of weird energy based thing that saves him by transporting him to another place instead of taking the full brunt of the attack.

I see where you are coming from and the possibility does exist he completely took that attack head on and full force, but considering his past where far less than Universal level attacks have hurt him... I'd be willing to lean more towards something other than him tanking these attacks as being the reason he is still around.

I mean if he was really walking around with Universal level durability no one would have hurt him, and the Guardian Amp wouldn't have been as big a deal as it was.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Galan007
Furthermore, when Wally and Zoom were battling at such speeds that time was effectively stopped around them, Superman was shown as one of the heroes that were frozen in time and helpless in the battle. Where was his 'nanosecond-time-breaking-speed' then?

I've only read about it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in that fight, wasn't Zoom at such a level that Speed Force members were to him like normal people are to Flash, and Wally had to steal the speed of several to match? And I think one of those were Superman? Even if it weren't, if I am correct about the level Zoom was at, that's not exactly an accurate comparison to use against Abhi. Especially if Superman was one of the ones speed was taken from.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Galan007
You realize that if time is stopped, Superman cannot continue to accelerate his speed, right? That feat becomes even more bogus when you look at other instanceS(plural) where Superman has been incapacitated/frozen by 'true' time stops-- some of which have already been mentioned. That's fine and common sense agrees with you, but this is comics and in comics the feat is possible because he has done it. That's what I'm going with even though there are conflicting appearances.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say the energies didn't touch him or that they weren't involved in the BFR. I've never argued that point.

I said why does him getting touched by the energies mean he Tanked the attack.

Obviously the attack effected him differently than everything else in the vicinity of the attack. I know Monitor survived by using his shields but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't get time displaced, nor did everyone else caught in the blast.

And the fact that Superman didn't remain within the dead Universe afterwards also makes it suspect for me.

I'll use the Guardian Attack.

The Guardian blows himself up but all it does is send SBP to another universe but not only did he survive he absorbed some of the energies obviously. I wouldn't say he tanked that attack because there was obviously other things at play.

Same with the Monarch scene. Even though he gets touched by these energies something happens where he gets BFRed.

That's twice now where he has taken high profile attacks and has been sent to another point in either space or time.

It seems more to me that SBP has some kind of weird energy based thing that saves him by transporting him to another place instead of taking the full brunt of the attack.

I see where you are coming from and the possibility does exist he completely took that attack head on and full force, but considering his past where far less than Universal level attacks have hurt him... I'd be willing to lean more towards something other than him tanking these attacks as being the reason he is still around.

I mean if he was really walking around with Universal level durability no one would have hurt him, and the Guardian Amp wouldn't have been as big a deal as it was. This post really makes no sense to me-- it conflicts with what we saw happen on panel. Not going to take the time to pick it apart.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I've only read about it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in that fight, wasn't Zoom at such a level that Speed Force members were to him like normal people are to Flash, and Wally had to steal the speed of several to match? And I think one of those were Superman? Even if it weren't, if I am correct about the level Zoom was at, that's not exactly an accurate comparison to use against Abhi. Especially if Superman was one of the ones speed was taken from. Superman did not lend Wally speed. And that was just one comparison-- there are others.

Originally posted by Diesldude
That's fine and common sense agrees with you, but this is comics and in comics the feat is possible because he has done it. That's what I'm going with even though there are conflicting appearances. Even by comic standards the 'feat' makes no sense (as evident by Superman's lack of accelerating out of 'true' time stops since then.)

But hey, if you want to cling to it, then cling to it.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Galan007
Superman did not lend Wally speed. And that was just one comparison-- there are others.

Even by comic standards the 'feat' makes no sense (as evident by Superman's lack of accelerating out of 'true' time stops since then.)

But hey, if you want to cling to it, then cling to it.

Even if Superman didn't lend Wally speed, being on a level where Flash-level speed is frozen to you makes this an invalid comparison. And it's irrelevant if there's others, I was singling-out this one.

By the way, I've pointed-out before, Superman overcoming time being stopped via speed makes just as much sense, even for comics, as Captain America's shield effecting anybody. But nobody's even acknowledged this.

Galan007
Originally posted by Delta1938
Even if Superman didn't lend Wally speed, being on a level where Flash-level speed is frozen to you makes this an invalid comparison. And it's irrelevant if there's others, I was singling-out this one. You don't get the point. Flash and Zoom were moving so fast that time was stopped around them-- this was explicitly stated. And Superman was shown as one of the characters who were useless, as he was essentially frozen in time.

I understand the above scene it is a much different time stop than what Odin would use here, but it still demonstrates that Superman cannot break free whilst being effectively frozen in time-- which many are claiming he would do here, even though more instances than not show him helpless in said scenario.

w/e

Originally posted by Delta1938
By the way, I've pointed-out before, Superman overcoming time being stopped via speed makes just as much sense, even for comics, as Captain America's shield effecting anybody. But nobody's even acknowledged this. That's because your shield analogy doesn't make sense.

If Cap were frozen in time, and was still able to throw his shield at a bad guy, your analogy would be fitting... But that hasn't happened, so your analogy doesn't work.

Silent Master
The attack obviously slowed time rather than stopped it, thus Superman using speed to overcome it makes sense.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Delta1938
Even if Superman didn't lend Wally speed, being on a level where Flash-level speed is frozen to you makes this an invalid comparison. And it's irrelevant if there's others, I was singling-out this one.

By the way, I've pointed-out before, Superman overcoming time being stopped via speed makes just as much sense, even for comics, as Captain America's shield effecting anybody. But nobody's even acknowledged this. of course not, counters their arguments.

john allerdyce
odin wins easily, and he wins by either stopping time or mind raping the team. jesus, i cannot believe the stupidity of some of the people in here, especially abhi. it borders on trolling. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Delta1938
Originally posted by Galan007
You don't get the point. Flash and Zoom were moving so fast that time was stopped around them-- this was explicitly stated. And Superman was shown as one of the characters who were useless, as he was essentially frozen in time.

I understand the above scene it is a much different time stop than what Odin would use here, but it still demonstrates that Superman cannot break free whilst being effectively frozen in time-- which many are claiming he would do here, even though more instances than not show him helpless in said scenario.

w/e

So was time literally frozen, or was it simply frozen to them? Was there some outside factor that was stopping time, or were they simply moving so fast that everything else stopped to them? If it's the later, then it is not an accurate argument, since, ya know, they were moving at such speeds that even Superman and others on his level of speed were frozen to them.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's because your shield analogy doesn't make sense.

If Cap were frozen in time, and was still able to throw his shield at a bad guy, your analogy would be fitting... But that hasn't happened, so your analogy doesn't work.

I don't think you understand my point. Captain America's shield allows him to take hits from Hulk and others without his arm ripping off because of the vibranium absorbing impact, right? So how does it make any sense that he hurts opponents when striking them with it? It should absorb the impact when he hits them. Or when he throws it and bounces it off stuff? It should hit the wall, absorb all impact then fall.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
odin wins easily, and he wins by either stopping time or mind raping the team. jesus, i cannot believe the stupidity of some of the people in here, especially abhi. it borders on trolling. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Proof that Odin would be likely to resort to either tactic? Otherwise I can just say the team speed-blitzes him at 1,000 times the speed of thought before he can even think of either, and it would be just as valid an argument.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by john allerdyce
odin wins easily, and he wins by either stopping time or mind raping the team. jesus, i cannot believe the stupidity of some of the people in here, especially abhi. it borders on trolling. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Easily? I don't think he wins at all.

So now it's stupidity or trolling if someone has a different opinion then you? Fascinating.

JakeTheBank
Odin's literally battled across the universe with Forsung and has a form of extremely heightened awareness. Somehow, I don't think he'll be speedblitzed combo-to-ko'd before he either resorts to offensive telepathy, time manipulation, or just incredible energy projection.

Galan007
Originally posted by Delta1938
So was time literally frozen, or was it simply frozen to them? Was there some outside factor that was stopping time, or were they simply moving so fast that everything else stopped to them? If it's the later, then it is not an accurate argument, since, ya know, they were moving at such speeds that even Superman and others on his level of speed were frozen to them. That's the point, I'm showing you the stupidity in Superman's 'nanosecond time breaking feat11!!11!!' Using the 'logic' in that scan, Supes can simply keep accelerating to break free of any kind of time stop that is used.

We don't have to use that instance, we could stick with the others. Like I said, just trying to point out the stupidity of that scene.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't think you understand my point. Captain America's shield allows him to take hits from Hulk and others without his arm ripping off because of the vibranium absorbing impact, right? So how does it make any sense that he hurts opponents when striking them with it? It should absorb the impact when he hits them. Or when he throws it and bounces it off stuff? It should hit the wall, absorb all impact then fall. That analogy still doesn't fit. In fact, it fits even less now that you fully explained it.

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Easily? I don't think he wins at all.

So now it's stupidity or trolling if someone has a different opinion then you? Fascinating. if or when he uses time freezing or tp, he does win easily. that much cant really be questioned imo. the team cannot cope with it.

no it is stupidity and trolling when you try to use one ridiculous scene where superman supposedly resisted time freezing by moving fast, in lieu of several other scenes that show him being effectively frozen in time. fascinating when you actually know whats going on, huh?

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
This post really makes no sense to me-- it conflicts with what we saw happen on panel. Not going to take the time to pick it apart.

Superman did not lend Wally speed. And that was just one comparison-- there are others.

Even by comic standards the 'feat' makes no sense (as evident by Superman's lack of accelerating out of 'true' time stops since then.)

But hey, if you want to cling to it, then cling to it. How does it conflict with what we saw on panel.

Let me ask you something barring that one time, if someone told you that SBP was Universal Level in Durability would you have agreed with them? After all the times he has been hurt by the Flashes, Krypto, Ion, even the Titans would you have said he was able to take Universal level attacks and tank them?

I would hope the answer is no.

So what's more likely that SBP is able to tank Universal Level attacks when much much much less has hurt him or is it more likely that if he gets overloaded with energy he does the same thing Captain Atom does and jumps around or something similar to that?

Especially considering there already a precedent of it with the Guardian attack which both booted him into another Universe and powered him up.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin's literally battled across the universe with Forsung and has a form of extremely heightened awareness. Somehow, I don't think he'll be speedblitzed combo-to-ko'd before he either resorts to offensive telepathy, time manipulation, or just incredible energy projection.

Scans? I'd have to see it. Still doesn't change the validity of my point, that he's just saying that Odin would jump to those.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's the point, I'm showing you the stupidity in Superman's 'nanosecond time breaking feat11!!11!!' Using the 'logic' in that scan, Supes can simply keep accelerating to break free of any kind of time stop that is used.

We don't have to use that instance, we could stick with the others. Like I said, just trying to point out the stupidity of that scene.

So you're saying that because someone else moved faster than Superman that means his previous feat is invalid? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. roll eyes (sarcastic) It would be like me arguing Captain Marvel has no effect on Superman because say(meaning a hypothetical scenario) OWAW Sun-Amped Superman had an even face-punching contest with Imperiex Prime.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That analogy still doesn't fit. In fact, it fits even less now that you fully explained it.

blink What the f**k?

.....do you think Cap throws his shield with more force than Gladiator or Hulk's punches? If not, then it makes no sense that it doesn't just absorb all momentum and fall to the ground when it hits a wall. My point is there's shit that makes no sense even for comics, but I don't see people dismissing Cap's shield.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by john allerdyce
if or when he uses time freezing or tp, he does win easily. that much cant really be questioned imo. the team cannot cope with it.

no it is stupidity and trolling when you try to use one ridiculous scene where superman supposedly resisted time freezing by moving fast, in lieu of several other scenes that show him being effectively frozen in time. fascinating when you actually know whats going on, huh?

Well, Superman resisting TP is nothing new, so that point is moot. As for the time freezing, the times Odin used time freezing against powerful enemies like Thanos etc. are so numerous, it's incredible. Almost as often as Superman resisting time freezing. Use an rare tactic to attack, use an rare feat to counter, seems legit, don't you think?

Yeah, fascinating to know whats going on in YOUR mind/world thumb up

And funny that Odins only slim chance is timestop or mindrape, as he is outgunned here.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Well, Superman resisting TP is nothing new, so that point is moot. As for the time freezing, the times Odin used time freezing against powerful enemies like Thanos etc. are so numerous, it's incredible. Almost as often as Superman resisting time freezing. Use an rare tactic to attack, use an rare feat to counter, seems legit, don't you think?

Yeah, fascinating to know whats going on in YOUR mind/world thumb up

And funny that Odins only slim chance is timestop or mindrape, as he is outgunned here.

Double Standard FTW!!!!!!

the Darkone
Odin too versatile and powerful!

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Delta1938
Scans? I'd have to see it. Still doesn't change the validity of my point, that he's just saying that Odin would jump to those.



So you're saying that because someone else moved faster than Superman that means his previous feat is invalid? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. roll eyes (sarcastic) It would be like me arguing Captain Marvel has no effect on Superman because say(meaning a hypothetical scenario) OWAW Sun-Amped Superman had an even face-punching contest with Imperiex Prime.



blink What the f**k?

.....do you think Cap throws his shield with more force than Gladiator or Hulk's punches? If not, then it makes no sense that it doesn't just absorb all momentum and fall to the ground when it hits a wall. My point is there's shit that makes no sense even for comics, but I don't see people dismissing Cap's shield.

I'll have to look for them sometime tonight.

Also, I think you may have misquoted me and not Galan?

In any case, the Cap analogy doesn't make much sense in a thread where his shield, it's properties, or the "logic" behind them isn't up for debate, so it seems like something of a red herring in my honest opinion.

Galan007
Originally posted by Delta1938
So you're saying that because someone else moved faster than Superman that means his previous feat is invalid? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Okay, if you can't understand my analogy (admittedly, it might be confusing if you don't understand why I mentioned it), how about a few instances where Supes was completely incapacitated by ACTUAL time stops?

Frozen by Liri Lee:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192613_1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192614_2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192615_3.jpg

Frozen and transported back in time by Waverider:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13192669_5.jpg

Frozen again by Waverider:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192616_4.jpg



Wait a sec, I thought Superman could casually break free from time stoppage? What happened there?

Originally posted by Delta1938
.....do you think Cap throws his shield with more force than Gladiator or Hulk's punches? If not, then it makes no sense that it doesn't just absorb all momentum and fall to the ground when it hits a wall. My point is there's shit that makes no sense even for comics, but I don't see people dismissing Cap's shield. I understand the point you are trying to make, but that analogy simply does not work here.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'll have to look for them sometime tonight.

Would be appreciated for both the fight and the senses thing mentioned.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Also, I think you may have misquoted me and not Galan?

Yeah, I was quoting Galan, I'm not sure why it said I was quoting you. My apologies. But since you've responded.....

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In any case, the Cap analogy doesn't make much sense in a thread where his shield, it's properties, or the "logic" behind them isn't up for debate, so it seems like something of a red herring in my honest opinion.

My point is that it's being argued that Superman overcoming time being stopped(I haven't read the instance myself, so I don't know if it was literally stopped, but it doesn't change my point) is being dismissed as not making sense.

Yet, in all reality, Captain America's shield shouldn't effect anybody when he hits them with it, nor should it bounce off walls when it's thrown, considering who he's blocked strikes from with it. But, I've never seen anybody but myself protest how illogical this is. But a Superman feat? Yeah, that gets nitpicked and attacked for making no sense.

I think the reason why this appears to be irrelevant or a red herring to you and Galan(and others who think it's stupid/a strawman but haven't said anything) is none of you actually stop and think about how little Cap's shield gives a phuck about logic even for comics.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Delta1938
Would be appreciated for both the fight and the senses thing mentioned.



Yeah, I was quoting Galan, I'm not sure why it said I was quoting you. My apologies. But since you've responded.....



My point is that it's being argued that Superman overcoming time being stopped(I haven't read the instance myself, so I don't know if it was literally stopped, but it doesn't change my point) is being dismissed as not making sense.

Yet, in all reality, Captain America's shield shouldn't effect anybody when he hits them with it, nor should it bounce off walls when it's thrown, considering who he's blocked strikes from with it. But, I've never seen anybody but myself protest how illogical this is. But a Superman feat? Yeah, that gets nitpicked and attacked for making no sense.

I think the reason why this appears to be irrelevant or a red herring to you and Galan(and others who think it's stupid/a strawman but haven't said anything) is none of you actually stop and think about how little Cap's shield gives a phuck about logic even for comics.

Kk. You could likely find themselves yourself in the Odin Respect thread, which is still halfway decent, if you don't feel like waiting on me to be kinda lazy today.

It happens, no worries.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption, but you're arguing, if I'm following you correctly, that Superman and his feats are unfairly picked apart and scrutinized whereas Captain America's shield (and presumably other characters) don't get that?

I really hope that's not the case and this hasn't turned into another "Superman gets hated on/picked on/unfairly treated on the forum as a whole" style argument and that I'm wrong in my assumption.

Blight
I think he's just reporting the fact that comics are, in general, fairly science fiction and not science fact.

JakeTheBank
Okay, but still, by that route, we should be arguing against these characters even existing. If we try to extrapolate real world science, physics, and logic for all characters and feats, we may as well make h1 an admin.

no expression let that sink in for a while.

To that end, the reason why said feat is being picked apart isn't because it's a "Superman" feat. It's because Superman has been halted by time stopping before on panel as have beings more powerful than Superman leaving room for an argument that time manipulation can and likely would be a factor in this. Still don't get the Cap shield's analogy's relevance in this thread.

Diesldude
No galan was harping about how superman speeding out of a time stop doesn't make sense, but he fails to acknowledge delta's point that using the same logic, caps shield shouldn't harm anyone.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Diesldude
No galan was harping about how superman speeding out of a time stop doesn't make sense, but he fails to acknowledge delta's point that using the same logic, caps shield shouldn't harm anyone.

barker

Galan007
Originally posted by Diesldude
No galan was harping about how superman speeding out of a time stop doesn't make sense, but he fails to acknowledge delta's point that using the same logic, caps shield shouldn't harm anyone. It's not the same logic. It is an absolutely horrible analogy.

PillarofOsiris
And it's logical that SBP can punch his way out of the phantom zone? It's DC.

Branlor Swift
Superman shouldn't be able to fly.

Does that pertain to the thread?

Galan007
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And it's logical that SBP can punch his way out of the phantom zone? It's DC. What does that have to do with anything mentioned thus far?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Superman shouldn't be able to fly.

Does that pertain to the thread? Moreso than some of the other BS being mentioned. thumb up

JakeTheBank
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/PissedJim.gif

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Galan007
What does that have to do with anything mentioned thus far?



That the ridiculousness of the superman feat shouldnt surprise anyone as it's from dc where things like throwing black holes, punching through dimensions and retcon punches could happen.

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Well, Superman resisting TP is nothing new, so that point is moot. As for the time freezing, the times Odin used time freezing against powerful enemies like Thanos etc. are so numerous, it's incredible. Almost as often as Superman resisting time freezing. Use an rare tactic to attack, use an rare feat to counter, seems legit, don't you think?

Yeah, fascinating to know whats going on in YOUR mind/world thumb up

And funny that Odins only slim chance is timestop or mindrape, as he is outgunned here. you dont get it, do you? there are several scenes where superman was frozen in time and not able to break free (galan just posted some of them) therefore the one scene that shows him 'speeding up' to get out of a supposed time freeze is hugely invalidated.

the same cannot be said about odin. any time hes needed to freeze time, hes frozen time. king thor has also stopped time when he needed to, as has classic thor (just saw those scans in his respect thread.) both incarnations of thor are far weaker than odin, but use the same basic power source.

and i agree that if things come down to odin physically brawling with the team and not using any blasts or exotic powers, the team will win. i never even suggested otherwise, so why even bring that up?

Galan007
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
That the ridiculousness of the superman feat shouldnt surprise anyone as it's from dc where things like throwing black holes, punching through dimensions and retcon punches could happen. That Superman feat is ridiculous, in context of the rest of his history, I'll give you that.

Galan007
Originally posted by john allerdyce
you dont get it, do you? there are several scenes where superman was frozen in time and not able to break free (galan just posted some of them) therefore the one scene that shows him 'speeding up' to get out of a supposed time freeze is hugely invalidated.

the same cannot be said about odin. any time hes needed to freeze time, hes frozen time. king thor has also stopped time when he needed to, as has classic thor (just saw those scans in his respect thread.) both incarnations of thor are far weaker than odin, but use the same basic power source.

and i agree that if things come down to odin physically brawling with the team and not using any blasts or exotic powers, the team will win. i never even suggested otherwise, so why even bring that up? Pretty much my opinion.

Time freeze will work on the team, that much really cannot be questioned. The only part that is up for debate is whether or not Odin will use it right out of the gate. Given his 'cosmic senses/awareness' you'd *think* he would, but who knows..?

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by john allerdyce
you dont get it, do you? there are several scenes where superman was frozen in time and not able to break free (galan just posted some of them) therefore the one scene that shows him 'speeding up' to get out of a supposed time freeze is hugely invalidated.

the same cannot be said about odin. any time hes needed to freeze time, hes frozen time. king thor has also stopped time when he needed to, as has classic thor (just saw those scans in his respect thread.) both incarnations of thor are far weaker than odin, but use the same basic power source.

and i agree that if things come down to odin physically brawling with the team and not using any blasts or exotic powers, the team will win. i never even suggested otherwise, so why even bring that up?

I get it. What you don't get, this isn't normal Superman he is sundipped and in the OWAW mindset. It's not invalidated, it just shows that one can assume that Superman isn't always using his abilities to the fullest. The time freeze resist happened and it's valid, as valid as those times he hasn't. This time it's not only Superman Odin is fighting but Superman from OWAW AND not only this, he is Sundipped, so we can assume that he is beyond the level he was when he resisted said time freeze.
Except of this we have two PC Kryponians who are amped. PC Kryptonians used to travel through time frequently and their speed was timebreaking. So it's reasonable to say they will resist a time freeze with their speed more often then not when on their standard level. However, they are even amped. So imho timefreeze is not an option.
Mindrape isn't too, since Supes has a good resistance against it on normal levels.

Why bring it up? Because it will end in a brawl/blast game and Odin will fall. I even think that some of them could defeat Odin on their own some times out of ten.

Sundipped
Exactly how many times has he used it?
Doubt he'd be using from the jump.
Team wins 8/10. That 2 wins is for the time stop. When things like this are applicable, you have to use the majority standpoint to decide victory.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, if you can't understand my analogy (admittedly, it might be confusing if you don't understand why I mentioned it), how about a few instances where Supes was completely incapacitated by ACTUAL time stops?

Frozen by Liri Lee:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192613_1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192614_2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192615_3.jpg

Frozen and transported back in time by Waverider:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13192669_5.jpg

Frozen again by Waverider:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13192616_4.jpg



Wait a sec, I thought Superman could casually break free from time stoppage? What happened there?

Looks like Odin's the time-freeze has a very high chance of working.

JakeTheBank
Prime and Kal-L are originally from the PC era, but didn't display the average PC/Silver Age Kryptonian power levels since their return.

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I get it. What you don't get, this isn't normal Superman he is sundipped and in the OWAW mindset. It's not invalidated, it just shows that one can assume that Superman isn't always using his abilities to the fullest. The time freeze resist happened and it's valid, as valid as those times he hasn't. This time it's not only Superman Odin is fighting but Superman from OWAW AND not only this, he is Sundipped, so we can assume that he is beyond the level he was when he resisted said time freeze.
Except of this we have two PC Kryponians who are amped. PC Kryptonians used to travel through time frequently and their speed was timebreaking. So it's reasonable to say they will resist a time freeze with their speed more often then not when on their standard level. However, they are even amped. So imho timefreeze is not an option.
Mindrape isn't too, since Supes has a good resistance against it on normal levels.

Why bring it up? Because it will end in a brawl/blast game and Odin will fall. I even think that some of them could defeat Odin on their own some times out of ten. wow lot of opinion here..... do you have proof that the amps the kryptonians have in this thread make them immune to skyfather level time manipulation? lets start there. big grin

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Prime and Kal-L are originally from the PC era, but didn't display the average PC/Silver Age Kryptonian power levels since their return. not even close

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Prime and Kal-L are originally from the PC era, but didn't display the average PC/Silver Age Kryptonian power levels since their return.

Changing the center of the Universe with bare hands?

Ok, your opinion.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by john allerdyce
wow lot of opinion here..... do you have proof that the amps the kryptonians have in this thread make them immune to skyfather level time manipulation? lets start there. big grin

not even close

Do you have prove that time manipulation will work on them if they are amped? So a lot of opinion on you part too, huh?

Cogito
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Superman shouldn't be able to fly.

Does that pertain to the thread?

No but....

Earth's gravity is weaker than Krypton's... or solar radiation...or um...auras and shit.






excellent

john allerdyce
lol physically moving planets isn't the same as 'flying through time' or whatever power you tried giving the team in your above post. geese.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Do you have prove that time manipulation will work on them if they are amped? So a lot of opinion on you part too, huh?

You're the one claiming that the they are immune to a time-stop, that means the burden is on you.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Changing the center of the Universe with bare hands?

Ok, you opinion.

Guess you missed the "average" part in my post. I don't see a PC/Silver Age Kryptonian bleeding from a punch from Superboy or Bart Allen, much less phased by the stuff which has consistently effected him. Or being portrayed as more or less equal to a decidedly non-PC level Kryptonian in the form of New Earth Superman.

Not really opinion. Kal-L is certainly not at PC levels since being brought back. Prime's high end feats can be argued for being on that level, but consistently, he's not operating at PC level, either.

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Do you have prove that time manipulation will work on them if they are amped? So a lot of opinion on you part too, huh? youre asking me to prove a negative, huh?

man, you really arent good at this.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Silent Master
You're the one claiming that the they are immune to a time-stop, that means the burden is on you.

I gave my reasoning. PC Kryptonians travel through time with speed alone, here they are amped. Superman resisted it once, here he is at his best OWAW mindset AND amped. That's enough for me.

And yes they are PC Kryptonians, they were not affected by the CotiE. One doesn't have to like it shrug

SBP changing the center of the Universe or tanking an Universbuster is enough for me.

Galan007
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Do you have prove that time manipulation will work on them if they are amped? I posted proof that it will work on average Superman. Why would having a sun-amp make him more resistant to time being stopped?

That doesn't even make sense.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I gave my reasoning. PC Kryptonians travel through time with speed alone, here they are amped. Superman resisted it once, here he is at his best OWAW mindset AND amped. That's enough for me.

And yes they are PC Kryptonians, they were not affected by the CotiE. One doesn't have to like it shrug

SBP changing the center of the Universe or tanking an Universbuster is enough for me.

So Superman resisting time being halted and not stopped + him being amped = immune to time stop to you?

New Gods weren't effected by COIE and neither were the GLC for the most part.

Doesn't change the fact that their power levels were dropped alongside everyone else's for the most part.

Your best case is arguing for Prime based on his high end feats since being brought back and ignoring or dismissing everything else. Don't see how an argument can even really be made for Kal-L.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I gave my reasoning. PC Kryptonians travel through time with speed alone, here they are amped. Superman resisted it once, here he is at his best OWAW mindset AND amped. That's enough for me.

And yes they are PC Kryptonians, they were not affected by the CotiE. One doesn't have to like it shrug

SBP changing the center of the Universe or tanking an Universbuster is enough for me.

IOW, you have zero proof that they would be immune to a time-stop.

Batman-Prime
^No on the contrary. Being fast enough to travel through time = a good chance to resist it. Amped, a great chance. Simple.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Guess you missed the "average" part in my post. I don't see a PC/Silver Age Kryptonian bleeding from a punch from Superboy or Bart Allen, much less phased by the stuff which has consistently effected him. Or being portrayed as more or less equal to a decidedly non-PC level Kryptonian in the form of New Earth Superman.

Not really opinion. Kal-L is certainly not at PC levels since being brought back. Prime's high end feats can be argued for being on that level, but consistently, he's not operating at PC level, either.

NE Superman increased in power through the years and became powerful enough to lift "infinity". So there you go. Your opinion. And yes, even PC Kryptonians had low showings, like every other char too. One can lowball the shit out of everyone.

Really your opinion. Since we know that they are still the same persons as they were before the CotiE. Just because you feel they are inconsistent, a normal thing in comics btw, doesn't mean they were "exchanged" in the Paradise Dimension.
You can believe it if you want, I prefer the comic version, they are the same guys from the PC era.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
youre asking me to prove a negative, huh?

man, you really arent good at this.

Oh, you could show me some instances where Odin uses Timefreeze on enemies as powerful as those here. Trans+ or Skyfatherlevel.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Galan007
I posted proof that it will work on average Superman. Why would having a sun-amp make him more resistant to time being stopped?

That doesn't even make sense.

Because average Superman resisted it? And here it's an OWAW amped Supes? With a sundip?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
NE Superman increased in power through the years and became powerful enough to lift "infinity". So there you go. Your opinion. And yes, even PC Kryptonians had low showings, like every other char too. One can lowball the shit out of everyone.

Really your opinion. Since we know that they are still the same persons as they were before the CotiE. Just because you feel they are inconsistent, a normal thing in comics btw, doesn't mean they were "exchanged" in the Paradise Dimension.
You can believe it if you want, I prefer the comic version, they are the same guys from the PC era.

Yeah, Superman has high end feats not indicative of his average like every other single hero out there. Glad we've established that. How am I lowballing Prime by pointing out the disparity between his high end feats and everything else? His baseline "average" isn't equal to the baseline "average" of a true Silver Age Kryptonian. Him being from that era originally =/= him being portrayed at that power level.

It's not really opinion when it's clear they weren't shown at that power level as a whole, though? It's not inconsistent, it's the averages that were given to us as a whole. I do think I'll believe what's shown on panel, though.

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