The Avengers Vs the Fantastic four Vs Xmen

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berserker9999
The Avengers Vs the Fantastic four Vs Xmen.


The Avengers : (Iron Man,Capitan America,Hulk,Thor,the black widow and
Hawkeye).

The Fantastic Four: (Mister Fantastic,invisible Woman,The Human Torch and the Thing).

The Xmen (final conflict): (Wolverine,storm,Beast,Iceman,Shadowcat and colossus).

Who will win this clash among the greatest super heroes of the marvel who it will go out winning?

FrothByte
Movie versions? Then Avengers stomp. Invisible Woman is a pretty powerful character with all that force bubbles and stuff, but her movie version was still pretty weak. Thing won't be able to handle Hulk for long, Thor will kick Human Torch's ass, and Ironman with the rest can handle Mr. Fantastic.

I'd rate Xmen last, even if Colossus, Storm, and Iceman have decent potential, their movie versions weren't all that powerful. Shadowcut can be a wildcard though.

Impediment
If the X-Men had Xavier, they would win.

Psychotron
Avengers win.

Kaibs
If the Xmen had Jean they'd win instantly.

BruceSkywalker
Avengers stomp... if Dark Phoenix or Charles X were here than its a different story

Utrigita
Atleast give the fantastic four Doom, so they isn't down by 2 guys from the get go.

DARTH POWER
Give the FF Silver Surfer.

That would make things interesting. Should start a few arguments stick out tongue

mastagambit
Probably Avengers.

Robtard
Shadowcat solos.

lilshogun
If Xmen had Jean Grey and Magneto they would wipe everyone out.

Psychotron
Originally posted by lilshogun
If Xmen had Jean Grey and Magneto they would wipe everyone out.

But they don't so Avengers win.

juggerman
Originally posted by Psychotron
But they don't so Avengers win.

thumb up

mastagambit
Originally posted by Robtard
Shadowcat solos.

I forgot about her.
She probably can solo everyone.
But can she go through Sue's shield?

Robtard
Originally posted by mastagambit
I forgot about her.
She probably can solo everyone.
But can she go through Sue's shield?

Unknown.

Surfer was able to with his intangibility powers(if that's what he used). That's the only comparison available to us considering Shadowcat has never faced a force field before on screen.

Newjak
Thor or Hulk solos.

marwash22
that shield was shown to stop solid matter, if Kitty isn't solid, i don't see why it would stop her.

mastagambit
If the shield can't stop Kitty then I don't see who can stop her from soloing everyone.

Newjak
I could see Thor's hammer messing her up stick out tongue

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
I could see Thor's hammer messing her up stick out tongue

By passing harmlessly right through her?

marwash22
Pretty sure Thor's lightning can hit intangible foes, too bad this is the movie version. he

marwash22
actually Thor (or any of the flyers) could just wait her out.

The Silent Hero
Mutants take this.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
By passing harmlessly right through her? It's mere presence was causing interference to top Shield equipment.

It deflected the destroyer beam effortlessly it being a laser beam.

Of course this is where you tell me that her running through a few walls means nothing can harm her right?

No limits fallacy.

mastagambit
Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Mutants take this.


thumb up

marwash22
Originally posted by Newjak
It's mere presence was causing interference to top Shield equipment.

It deflected the destroyer beam effortlessly it being a laser beam.

Of course this is where you tell me that her running through a few walls means nothing can harm her right?

No limits fallacy. thems be the rules, champ. I gave up arguing that a long time ago. movie feats only... if nothing was shown to hurt her while intangible, you have no argument.

Newjak
Where does it say we can apply a no limits fallacy to characters?

marwash22
where in any of the movies was it shown that she could be effected in any way while intangible?

Newjak
Originally posted by marwash22
where in any of the movies was it shown that she could be effected in any way while intangible? Her feats consist of running through concrete, going into the ground, and trying to beat the Juggernaut and failing horribly, until he lost his powers stick out tongue.

Seriously so we are just to assume that because she can go through stone that any attack from a character will auto fail against her...

That's lame, especially considering we've got a shield that's supposed to absorb anything, and a magical hammer that defies logic.

Silver Surfer didn't go intangible when he went through Sue's Shields. He was just able to bypass them for some reason. I know this because later we see Doom throw a silver spear at reed which Sue tries to intercept. It goes through the shield easily. We then see that is has both pierced her and is still poking through the shield.

I saw that earlier and figured I would something on it stick out tongue

marwash22
Originally posted by Newjak
Her feats consist of running through concrete, going into the ground, and trying to beat the Juggernaut and failing horribly, until he lost his powers stick out tongue.

Seriously so we are just to assume that because she can go through stone that any attack from a character will auto fail against her...

That's lame, especially considering we've got a shield that's supposed to absorb anything, and a magical hammer that defies logic. you're preaching to the choir, bruh.

Mindset
Originally posted by mastagambit
If the shield can't stop Kitty then I don't see who can stop her from soloing everyone. And how is she supposed to actually beat anyone?

marwash22
hand through the face.

mastagambit
Originally posted by marwash22
hand through the face.

Newjak
How exactly does that work, she was never shown to be able to do that.

And what happens if she becomes solid inside of something.

How can two objects occupy the same space?

Would the tougher stronger object win out leaving her with a stump as that body part fails to become tangible?

Psychotron
Didn't Kitty just run around waiting for Juggs to lose his powers?

If so the only thing she can solo is a porno.

mastagambit
You guys need to rewatch X3 final scene when she is side by side all the other members. She does some attack by running pass people and then slamming them to the ground.
Also she phased juggy's lower body into the ground.
Now imagine if she does an attack like that to someone.
Phasing their ENTIRE body into a wall,or the ground.
So first thing is they can't breath,second is if they don't have super strength or any means of escaping they are stuck their for eternity.lol
So Kitty does solo.

Newjak
Originally posted by mastagambit
You guys need to rewatch X3 final scene when she is side by side all the other members. She does some attack by running pass people and then slamming them to the ground.
Also she phased juggy's lower body into the ground.
Now imagine if she does an attack like that to someone.
Phasing their ENTIRE body into a wall,or the ground.
So first thing is they can't breath,second is if they don't have super strength or any means of escaping they are stuck their for eternity.lol
So Kitty does solo. You mean someone ran through her than she grabbed them from behind using their momentum to knock them down.

Yeah cause phasing Cain worked well right??? No it didn't.

Truth is feat wise both Thor and Hulk are stronger than movie Juggernaut so she can't beat them by phasing them into the ground even though Thor can fly so there is no reason to believe kitty could reach him to begin with.

So kitty does not solo

mastagambit
Originally posted by Newjak
You mean someone ran through her than she grabbed them from behind using their momentum to knock them down.

Yeah cause phasing Cain worked well right??? No it didn't.

Truth is feat wise both Thor and Hulk are stronger than movie Juggernaut so she can't beat them by phasing them into the ground even though Thor can fly so there is no reason to believe kitty could reach him to begin with.

So kitty does not solo


Wait a sec now,I did not say it worked against Juggy.
He has super strength.
But what I am saying is what if she phased a person all the way?
What then?
And there are other phasing attacks she can do but the movie does not represent that.
I agree with Thor being able to fly.
But he still cant hurt her,so it's a stalemate then.

Psychotron
Originally posted by mastagambit
Wait a sec now,I did not say it worked against Juggy.
He has super strength.
But what I am saying is what if she phased a person all the way?
What then?
And there are other phasing attacks she can do but the movie does not represent that.
I agree with Thor being able to fly.
But he still cant hurt her,so it's a stalemate then.

She can't keep it up forever, and as soon as she phazes back she'll be ktfo.

Newjak
Originally posted by mastagambit
Wait a sec now,I did not say it worked against Juggy.
He has super strength.
But what I am saying is what if she phased a person all the way?
What then?
And there are other phasing attacks she can do but the movie does not represent that.
I agree with Thor being able to fly.
But he still cant hurt her,so it's a stalemate then. If she phased them all the way into the ground they would break out as they are considerably stronger than the movie version of Juggernaut.

What other phasing options?

Trying to phase stuff into them, trying to phase her hand into their body?

There is no guarantee those types of attacks will work on these people. I'd place odds on them not working because these guys are way tougher then anything she could use to harm them.

I still refuse to believe this no limits fallacy that says since nothing hurt while phased nothing can hurt her while phased.

Her feats consist of running through a few people, and some stone, it's not like she ran through a metal that absorbs all vibrations or a magically enchanted hammer that deflects laser beams.

You can clearly see after she tried to phase Juggernaut into the ground and it failed she had no other plan to stop him.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that when Kitty Phased Cain into the ground his body didn't concrete in it, he just displaced whatever was in his bodies place. Therefore the stronger more durable item seems to win out when two items are being phased in the same space.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
It's mere presence was causing interference to top Shield equipment.

It deflected the destroyer beam effortlessly it being a laser beam.

Of course this is where you tell me that her running through a few walls means nothing can harm her right?

No limits fallacy.

And that compares to being intangible how?

And that compares to being intangible how?

Nope, she could be harmed by something that can interact with intangible objects. Does someone on either team have this?

Nope again.

mastagambit
I still think Kitty can harm them more if used her phasing powers more viciously.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
And that compares to being intangible how?

And that compares to being intangible how?

Nope, she could be harmed by something that can interact with intangible objects. Does someone on either team have this?

Nope again. The point being it is a magically enchanted hammer, something Kitty has no feats against.

So it is just as liable to work on her as her being completely immune to it.

The rest of what you imply is continual no limits fallacy.

It could work it might not but I would be willing to bet money on Thor's hammer being able to hurt with magic then her tanking it.

Newjak
Originally posted by mastagambit
I still think Kitty can harm them more if used her phasing powers more viciously. What else could she do.

She phased Cain into concrete, what else could she do that is more vicious or have any better chance of working against Hulk or Thor?

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
The point being it is a magically enchanted hammer, something Kitty has no feats against.

So it is just as liable to work on her as her being completely immune to it.

The rest of what you imply is continual no limits fallacy.

It could work it might not but I would be willing to bet money on Thor's hammer being able to hurt with magic then her tanking it.

Or intangible mutant, is something Thor/Mjolnir has no feats against.

Until then, I'm going with what's shown, objects in our time/space simply pass through her.

Nope.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Or intangible mutant, is something Thor/Mjolnir has no feats against.

Until then, I'm going with what's shown, objects in our time/space simply pass through her.

Nope. Once again her best feats are running through stone and concrete. Thor's hammer can effect things like radio waves electronics just fine.

You also don't even know how she becomes intangible so you have no credible reason to believe a magical hammer will pass right through her.

mastagambit
Originally posted by Newjak
What else could she do.

She phased Cain into concrete, what else could she do that is more vicious or have any better chance of working against Hulk or Thor?

It makes no sense arguing what she could do,or could not.
If this was the comic version then I would say she could do the 'impalement' or even 'objects'.
She has phased objects before into people.
Since she did none of those in the movie,I have to go by what she did which was run around through multiple people,phase them in the ground,etc.
Oh and for people wondering if she can phase through metal,etc.
Well she phased through Wolverine in the first film when Logan came to the mansion and Charles was showing her around.
That was her that ran right through his adamantium skeleton and all.

Newjak
Originally posted by mastagambit
It makes no sense arguing what she could do,or could not.
If this was the comic version then I would say she could do the 'impalement' or even 'objects'.
She has phased objects before into people.
Since she did none of those in the movie,I have to go by what she did which was run around through multiple people,phase them in the ground,etc.
Oh and for people wondering if she can phase through metal,etc.
Well she phased through Wolverine in the first film when Logan came to the mansion and Charles was showing her around.
That was her that ran right through his adamantium skeleton and all. Comic Thor would clear the field including a phased Kitty no arguments at all. no expression

My point was she phased Juggernaut into hte ground and he didn't end up with pounds of concrete in his body or blood stream. So his body obviously displayed cause it was tougher than the concrete. Kitty can not phase anything harder than Hulk or Thor into them.

mastagambit
Originally posted by Newjak
Comic Thor would clear the field including a phased Kitty no arguments at all. no expression

My point was she phased Juggernaut into hte ground and he didn't end up with pounds of concrete in his body or blood stream. So his body obviously displayed cause it was tougher than the concrete. Kitty can not phase anything harder than Hulk or Thor into them.

Yes I agree with you there on Juggy.
But I ask again this,what if she phased him all the way? His head
and all? So he can't breath?
And we are still at a standstill by saying there is nothing movie Thor can do to her.But she can to him.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
Once again her best feats are running through stone and concrete. Thor's hammer can effect things like radio waves electronics just fine.

You also don't even know how she becomes intangible so you have no credible reason to believe a magical hammer will pass right through her.

My cell phone can effect things like radio waves and other electronics.

That's a no limit fallacy to Thor's hammer. ie "it can do anything", despite not being shown it can affect phase objects.

It's best to go with what is shown until we're shown something different, she's intangible and objects pass right through her.

Newjak
Originally posted by mastagambit
Yes I agree with you there on Juggy.
But I ask again this,what if she phased him all the way? His head
and all? So he can't breath?
And we are still at a standstill by saying there is nothing movie Thor can do to her.But she can to him. What does it change if they phased Thor or Hulk all the way in the ground. They would still break out.

And you guys are saying there is nothing Thor can do to her. I say there is a chance that Thor's hammer can effect her.

Originally posted by Robtard
My cell phone can effect things like radio waves and other electronics.

That's a no limit fallacy to Thor's hammer. ie "it can do anything", despite not being shown it can affect phase objects.

It's best to go with what is shown until we're shown something different, she's intangible and objects pass right through her. My point was that it can effect things normal people can not interact with and that

A) You don't know how Kitty phases through things or B) what her limits are but we do know her feats which are severely lacking. What you guys are saying would be the equivalent of saying Prof X can contact someone telepathically in the next solar system using Cerebro because he never showed a limit when using it. It's possible but he doesn't have the feats to support it nor would I think many people try and support it.

Running through some stone, metal, and a few people does not make someone invincible to all forms of attacks. There is a chance Thor's hammer could not work, but there is a chance that can seeing as it is a magically enchanted hammer that can do a lot. Something she never went against, and considering Thor's hammer is way more powerful than anything Kitty has gone up against I'd side with the hammer working.

One thing we do know for certain is based on her performance against the Juggernaut she doesn't have the juice to take out a high caliber opponent.

We know based on her attack that when she phases something into something else the more durable object wins out. Thor is more durable than Kitty by a large margin. If she tries to phase into him and make her body solid inside of him she will lose an arm.

Assuming she can even get to Thor cause if Thor just flies around the battle field frying people with lightning and summoning massive Tornadoes no one on either team is beating him especially the ground based Shadowcat.

Mindset
Originally posted by marwash22
hand through the face. She's never done it.

We don't even know she can do it.

It's not in character.

erm

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak


My point was that it can effect things normal people can not interact with and that

A) You don't know how Kitty phases through things or B) what her limits are but we do know her feats which are severely lacking. What you guys are saying would be the equivalent of saying Prof X can contact someone telepathically in the next solar system using Cerebro because he never showed a limit when using it. It's possible but he doesn't have the feats to support it nor would I think many people try and support it.

Running through some stone, metal, and a few people does not make someone invincible to all forms of attacks. There is a chance Thor's hammer could not work, but there is a chance that can seeing as it is a magically enchanted hammer that can do a lot. Something she never went against, and considering Thor's hammer is way more powerful than anything Kitty has gone up against I'd side with the hammer working.

One thing we do know for certain is based on her performance against the Juggernaut she doesn't have the juice to take out a high caliber opponent.

We know based on her attack that when she phases something into something else the more durable object wins out. Thor is more durable than Kitty by a large margin. If she tries to phase into him and make her body solid inside of him she will lose an arm.

Assuming she can even get to Thor cause if Thor just flies around the battle field frying people with lightning and summoning massive Tornadoes no one on either team is beating him especially the ground based Shadowcat.

My point is that Kitty is not like a radio wave. Radio waves can be be blocked by solid objects, Kitty can't. So your comparison that Mjolnir can affect Kitty cos Mjolnir caused some interference to electronics is faulty.

Repeat: It's best to go with what's shown and what's shown tells us that Mjolnir (a solid object) will simply pass right through her when she'd phased.

If you want to argue that she can't harm Thor with her phasing powers, that's a more sensible point of argument. IMO, she takes Thor down several feat into the Earth; he's ****ed.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
My point is that Kitty is not like a radio wave. Radio waves can be be blocked by solid objects, Kitty can't. So your comparison that Mjolnir can affect Kitty cos Mjolnir caused some interference to electronics is faulty.

Repeat: It's best to go with what's shown and what's shown tells us that Mjolnir (a solid object) will simply pass right through her when she'd phased.

If you want to argue that she can't harm Thor with her phasing powers, that's a more sensible point of argument. IMO, she takes Thor down several feat into the Earth; he's ****ed. Getting away from the back and forth of your no limits fallacy.

Thor being several feat into the Earth won't stop him. He is more than strong enough to break out of that so once again Kitty has no solid way of beating Thor IF she can even touch him erm

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
Getting away from the back and forth of your no limits fallacy.

Thor being several feat into the Earth won't stop him. He is more than strong enough to break out of that so once again Kitty has no solid way of beating Thor IF she can even touch him erm

LoL, hypocrisy much? I'm claiming Kitty could phase right through Mjolnir cos she's seen phasing through solid objects, which Mjolnir definitely is by all accounts. A solid object; I'm going with bankable movie feats. Your argument is essentially "Mjolnir is magical* so it's just going to react with phased objects", despite nothing of the kind being shown in Thor or Avengers. That's more akin to a No Limit Fallacy, if not outright being one.

Or you know, he'd die of suffocation, before he broke his way out as every second without oxygen he'd be getting weaker and weaker. There's also the fact that unlike the Juggernaut, he's not invulnerable, he just has a ridiculously high level of durability, so being phased into solid matter could potentially outright kill him.

Why couldn't see touch him? Thor's shown a willingness to engage opponents head more so than flying around and attacking that way.

*on a side note, it's not even sure if Mjolnir is actually magical in the Marvel Film universe or if Asgardian technology/science is so far advanced to humans it appears to be magical. Clarke's 3rd Law.

marwash22
Originally posted by Mindset
She's never done it.

We don't even know she can do it.

It's not in character.

erm i'll put my dick through YOUR face. sneer

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, hypocrisy much? I'm claiming Kitty could phase right through Mjolnir cos she's seen phasing through solid objects, which Mjolnir definitely is by all accounts. A solid object. Your argument is essentially "Mjolnir is magical so it's just going to react with phased objects", despite nothing of the kind being shown in Thor or Avenger. That's more akin to a No Limit Fallacy, if not outright being one.

Or you know, he'd die of suffocation, before he broke his way out as every second without oxygen he'd be getting weaker and weaker. There's also the fact that unlike the Juggernaut, he's not invulnerable, he just has a ridiculously high level of durability, so being phased into solid matter could potentially outright kill him.

Why couldn't see touch him? He's shown a willingness to engage opponents head more so than flying around and attacking that way. I've already said Thor's hammer could work or it might not, so I didn't no limits fallacy it as I know it has limits but it is still an incredibly powerful, versatile, and magical weapon. I'm also not willing going to assign Kitty with total untouchability because she can go through stone, people, and metal though.

There are items here her powers have never been tested against. His hammer's mere presence causes human tech to falter. It can summon storms, and is obviously magically enchanted considering no one but Thor can pick it up. Cap's Shield is made out of material that can absorb all kinetic energy.

Also Juggernaut wasn't totally invulnerable... like Kitty his main feats consist of tanking some low level attacks and running through some walls and people. Thor has much better feats.

So that makes two no limit fallacies you've tried to pull here. One stating Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased and Cain being invulnerable.

As for the rest,

Thor shot Ironman with lightning before he engaged him physically. Very early on went to the air with the tornado against the destroyer, and fried the Chitauri when he flew in to save Cap/BW/HE after he fought Loki. That's 3 examples of Thor not instantly going for close range attacks. He also flew through the giant monster so he doesn't always engage in H2H combat. In fact I would say in Thor's total amount of fights the amount of times he has gone straight to H2H is probably less or equal to half of them.


Thor would not suffocate being 7 feet buried, what do you think it's going to take him an hour to dig out. He'll blast out no problem IF she can phase him that deep into the ground to begin with.

Mindset
Originally posted by marwash22
i'll put my dick through YOUR face. sneer

Reported.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
I've already said Thor's hammer could work or it might not, so I didn't no limits fallacy it as I know it has limits but it is still an incredibly powerful, versatile, and magical weapon. I'm also not willing going to assign Kitty with total untouchability because she can go through stone, people, and metal though.

There are items here her powers have never been tested against. His hammer's mere presence causes human tech to falter. It can summon storms, and is obviously magically enchanted considering no one but Thor can pick it up. Cap's Shield is made out of material that can absorb all kinetic energy.

Also Juggernaut wasn't totally invulnerable... like Kitty his main feats consist of tanking some low level attacks and running through some walls and people. Thor has much better feats.

So that makes two no limit fallacies you've tried to pull here. One stating Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased and Cain being invulnerable.

As for the rest,

Thor shot Ironman with lightning before he engaged him physically. Very early on went to the air with the tornado against the destroyer, and fried the Chitauri when he flew in to save Cap/BW/HE after he fought Loki. That's 3 examples of Thor not instantly going for close range attacks. He also flew through the giant monster so he doesn't always engage in H2H combat. In fact I would say in Thor's total amount of fights the amount of times he has gone straight to H2H is probably less or equal to half of them.


Thor would not suffocate being 7 feet buried, what do you think it's going to take him an hour to dig out. He'll blast out no problem IF she can phase him that deep into the ground to begin with.

Yet you also are, by saying that despite her showing the ability to completely phase through solid objects, it's still a no go to solid objects like Mjolnir which has zero feats affecting phased objects. I'm arguing from a completely physical aspect. Xavier likely could mess her up. Dark Phoenix too considering she turned a solid object into pure energy. Better arguments could be made there.

We covered that already. My cell phone could cause interference to electrical devices. Mjolnir's not "obviously" magical in the films, see Clarke's 3rd law. Even Thor has said "science and magic are the same" in Asgard. So it's inconclusive, could be magic or it could be highly advanced tech or both. What does Cap's shield have to do with anything? Are yo claiming Kitty couldn't phase through that as well?

Except we literally see Juggernaut be invulnerable. But let's not go with what's seen, guesses are better.

Incorrect, going with what's shown instead of "we don't know" (which is often used in these debates when people can't argue a way for their favorite to win) is not a No Limit Fallacy. Feats in here count for a reason, they count more than wild guesses, eg 'Mjolnir affects electronics, ergo it can affect phased mutants.'

You've also just used a Strawman. I never said "Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased". I argued she's immune to physical attacks while phased, as shown.

Pretty sure Thor opened up by throwing Mjolnir and knocking Iron Man on his back. But that's three (maybe 2) examples of Thor opening with lightning compared to the more where he opened up with using Mjolnir as a blunt object. Dude mostly fights like a brick. What's your point though? He's going to blast a phased Kitty with lightning and it's just going to hurt her cos?

-Battle on Jotunheim he opened with a swing
-Battle with Loki in Odin's chamber another smash (iirc)
-Battle with the Destroyer, pretty sure he opens by throwing Mjolnier and then flies off
-Battle with Hulk, completely bricks it
-Battle with Loki in Stark Tower, bricks it
-Fighting Chitauri with Captain, bricks it

Dude's a brick.

How do you know he can survive being phased into a solid object in the first place? That's akin to affecting him on the molecular level. Entertaining that he could, how exactly does he "blast out"?

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Robtard

Except we literally see Juggernaut be invulnerable.

but wasn't his actual mutant power to be invulnerable as long as he has momentum? Once he was left phased into the floor wouldn't he have lost his momentum?

Robtard
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
but wasn't his actual mutant power to be invulnerable as long as he has momentum? Once he was left phased into the floor wouldn't he have lost his momentum?

IIRC, he was unstoppable once he gained momentum. I don't think his invulnerability power had anything to do with his momentum. Going from him being completely unharmed after being phased into the ground, that seems to agree that his two powers are separate of each other.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Yet you also are, by saying that despite her showing the ability to completely phase through solid objects, it's still a no go to solid objects like Mjolnir which has zero feats affecting phased objects. I'm arguing from a completely physical aspect. Xavier likely could mess her up. Dark Phoenix too considering she turned a solid object into pure energy. Better arguments could be made there.

We covered that already. My cell phone could cause interference to electrical devices. Mjolnir's not "obviously" magical in the films, see Clarke's 3rd law. Even Thor has said "science and magic are the same" in Asgard. So it's inconclusive, could be magic or it could be highly advanced tech or both. What does Cap's shield have to do with anything? Are yo claiming Kitty couldn't phase through that as well?

Except we literally see Juggernaut be invulnerable. But let's not go with what's seen, guesses are better.

Incorrect, going with what's shown instead of "we don't know" (which is often used in these debates when people can't argue a way for their favorite to win) is not a No Limit Fallacy. Feats in here count for a reason, they count more than wild guesses, eg 'Mjolnir affects electronics, ergo it can affect phased mutants.'

You've also just used a Strawman. I never said "Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased". I argued she's immune to physical attacks while phased, as shown.

Pretty sure Thor opened up by throwing Mjolnir and knocking Iron Man on his back. But that's three (maybe 2) examples of Thor opening with lightning compared to the more where he opened up with using Mjolnir as a blunt object. Dude mostly fights like a brick. What's your point though? He's going to blast a phased Kitty with lightning and it's just going to hurt her cos?

-Battle on Jotunheim he opened with a swing
-Battle with Loki in Odin's chamber another smash (iirc)
-Battle with the Destroyer, pretty sure he opens by throwing Mjolnier and then flies off
-Battle with Hulk, completely bricks it
-Battle with Loki in Stark Tower, bricks it
-Fighting Chitauri with Captain, bricks it

Dude's a brick.

How do you know he can survive being phased into a solid object in the first place? That's akin to affecting him on the molecular level. Entertaining that he could, how exactly does he "blast out"? No I'm saying she has only been shown to phase through a limited range of objects, and in this fight there are objects here with properties her powers have never been tested against. Simply stating that she is immune to them because they are physical and no physical force was shown to effect when she went against a very limited range of physical objects is in fact a No Limits Fallacy.

The point being you are assigning auto feats to her, when she clearly has no feats of passing through a vibranium shield or whatever metal Thor's hammer is made of, along with the extra goodies that come with it.

Your cell phone can not jam high level shield equipment by it's mere presence.

Also as stated by Hogun in Thor, "A master of MAGIC could sneak 3 Jotuns into Asgard." That is an Asgardian calling their stuff as magic when referring to Loki, and while yes it could just be science we don't know about yet, that doesn't change the point in that you are assigning Kitty auto feats against something we clearly have no idea how it operates or what it is capable of. Although we do know it has more then just physical qualities to it.

You claim I'm making a no limits fallacy on Thor's hammer, but I'm not. I'm not stating Thor for sure can take Kitty out while phased but neither am I going to over look the fact that Kitty has never been tested against an item like Mjolnor or against an item with the properties of Cap's shield. Considering we have no idea how she even phases to begin with there is no telling what set of properties can effect her while phased physical or otherwise.

As for the Juggernaut, you can't say he is invulnerable you can only say he is invulnerable up to his feats possibly slightly past that. Thor and Hulk both flat out have better durability and strength feats than Cain had.



You stated he attacks people headlong and thus inferred that he would be close enough for Kitty to touch him.

Which is why I showed where in multiple scenarios he took a foe from a distance.

For instance the Hammer throwing puts Thor no where near Kitty to touch him.

As for this list

FYI he never hit Loki in Odin's chamber Loki blasted him with Odin's spear before any fighting happened. I'm assuming you meant the Bi-Frost fight.

You're right he did throw his hammer at the Destroyer first and then flew off, but see again he didn't engage the destroyer in H2H.

He fought the Hulk H2H cause he was on the Hellicarrier where is other powers would have destroyed it so he was forced to.

As for fighting against the Chitauri as I've already said Thor opened up that fight with lightning from the sky, and during his fight used a car to smash a group of them.

So you only have 4 instances where Thor fought close range from the get go.

Against the instances where he didn't
-Destroyer
-Iron-Man
-Chitauri
-Lightning against the Leviathons
-As soon as his friends were clear, unleashed the Joteinhiem Buster
-He flew through the Frost Giant Monster(Which wouldn't give Kitty time to phase him in the ground)

So that's roughly an even split of where Thor starts of H2H vs him not going H2H off the bat which is what I said.

You're idea that Thor is a brick is false.

As for how I know Thor can survive, is because Juggernaut did and Thor has much better feats than Cain does. I know he can bust out because he has better strength feats than Cain does, as well as much better power attacks.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
No I'm saying she has only been shown to phase through a limited range of objects, and in this fight there are objects here with properties her powers have never been tested against. Simply stating that she is immune to them because they are physical and no physical force was shown to effect when she went against a very limited range of physical objects is in fact a No Limits Fallacy.

The point being you are assigning auto feats to her, when she clearly has no feats of passing through a vibranium shield or whatever metal Thor's hammer is made of, along with the extra goodies that come with it.

Your cell phone can not jam high level shield equipment by it's mere presence.

Also as stated by Hogun in Thor, "A master of MAGIC could sneak 3 Jotuns into Asgard." That is an Asgardian calling their stuff as magic when referring to Loki, and while yes it could just be science we don't know about yet, that doesn't change the point in that you are assigning Kitty auto feats against something we clearly have no idea how it operates or what it is capable of. Although we do know it has more then just physical qualities to it.

You claim I'm making a no limits fallacy on Thor's hammer, but I'm not. I'm not stating Thor for sure can take Kitty out while phased but neither am I going to over look the fact that Kitty has never been tested against an item like Mjolnor or against an item with the properties of Cap's shield. Considering we have no idea how she even phases to begin with there is no telling what set of properties can effect her while phased physical or otherwise.

As for the Juggernaut, you can't say he is invulnerable you can only say he is invulnerable up to his feats possibly slightly past that. Thor and Hulk both flat out have better durability and strength feats than Cain had.



You stated he attacks people headlong and thus inferred that he would be close enough for Kitty to touch him.

Which is why I showed where in multiple scenarios he took a foe from a distance.

For instance the Hammer throwing puts Thor no where near Kitty to touch him.

As for this list

FYI he never hit Loki in Odin's chamber Loki blasted him with Odin's spear before any fighting happened. I'm assuming you meant the Bi-Frost fight.

You're right he did throw his hammer at the Destroyer first and then flew off, but see again he didn't engage the destroyer in H2H.

He fought the Hulk H2H cause he was on the Hellicarrier where is other powers would have destroyed it so he was forced to.

As for fighting against the Chitauri as I've already said Thor opened up that fight with lightning from the sky, and during his fight used a car to smash a group of them.

So you only have 4 instances where Thor fought close range from the get go.

Against the instances where he didn't
-Destroyer
-Iron-Man
-Chitauri
-Lightning against the Leviathons
-As soon as his friends were clear, unleashed the Joteinhiem Buster
-He flew through the Frost Giant Monster(Which wouldn't give Kitty time to phase him in the ground)

So that's roughly an even split of where Thor starts of H2H vs him not going H2H off the bat which is what I said.

You're idea that Thor is a brick is false.

As for how I know Thor can survive, is because Juggernaut did and Thor has much better feats than Cain does. I know he can bust out because he has better strength feats than Cain does, as well as much better power attacks.

Circles and circles.

If your argument is "I don't know" in regards to Mjolnir affecting Kitty cos of assumed magical properties, which of course even if we go with Mjolnir being magical as fact, being magical in no ways means it can affect phased objects just because it's magic. Not all magic is equal. Assuming that is a No Limit Fallacy in of itself. Why debate the Mjolnir aspect if "you don't know"?

He does attack people head long more; dude's a brick, eg the car mash is more of a head on attack. But going with "Thor's going to lightning Kitty from the get go" as fact, what exactly is lightning going to do to her while she's phased?

Interesting, you're comparing being punched by Hulk, surviving explosions, being stabbed and such to being phased into a solid object. One character can be weaker than another, yet handle some given attack better. Why not apply your same logic you used on Kitty in regards to Mjolnir, ie "Thor's never been tested against being phased in to a solid object so we can't know"? Biased?

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Circles and circles.

If your argument is "I don't know" in regards to Mjolnir affecting Kitty cos of assumed magical properties, which of course even if we go with Mjolnir being magical as fact, being magical in no ways means it can affect phased objects just because it's magic. Not all magic is equal. Assuming that is a No Limit Fallacy in of itself. Why debate the Mjolnir aspect if "you don't know"?

He does attack people head long more; dude's a brick, eg the car mash is more of a head on attack. But going with "Thor's going to lightning Kitty from the get go" as fact, what exactly is lightning going to do to her while she's phased?

Interesting, you're comparing being punched by Hulk, surviving explosions, being stabbed and such to being phased into a solid object. One character can be weaker than another, yet handle some given attack better. Why not apply your same logic you used on Kitty in regards to Mjolnir, ie "Thor's never been tested against being phased in to a solid object so we can't know"? Biased? We know Juggernaut survived because of his durability, we know Thor has better durability feats.
Therefore Thor will survive the same type of attacks that Juggernaut can based on durability.

Everything else is the same no limits fallacy you've been spouting and I've been correcting.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
We know Juggernaut survived because of his durability, we know Thor has better durability feats.
Therefore Thor will survive the same type of attacks that Juggernaut can based on durability.

Everything else is the same no limits fallacy you've been spouting and I've been correcting.

You dodged two question. What exactly are you debating if you "don't know". What exactly is lightning going to do to a phased Kitty?

Using your same logic you applied to Kitty's phasing, we don't know exactly how Juggernaut survived being phased into solid matter, maybe durability, maybe not. Considering in the director's cut of the film Wolverine stabs him, though he's fine, he is stabbed. So again, why not a "Thor's never been phased, so we don't know" stance?

WTF are you spinning now while patting yourself on the back? I asked questions which you dodged in part, I didn't make statements except to point out the No Limit on the magic aspect, which is true.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Using your same logic you applied to Kitty's phasing, we don't know exactly how Juggernaut survived being phased into solid matter. Considering in the director's cut of the film Wolverine stabs him. That would suggest he has a healing factor since he got stabbed and it healed.

So unless he healed his body through concrete along with his cloths it was due to his durability he survived no other special power.

Not to mention in the same scene you are referring to Storm KOes Cain with the help of Wolverine acting as a conduit for lightning.

Which also makes your earlier claim of Cain being Invulnerable in accurate.

We know Cain survived because of his durability(It's the only relevant power he has to keep him from dying in that instance), but we don't know how Kitty phases we don't know how her phasing would handle having an object with special properties put through it like Thor's hammer or Cap's Shield.

Thus you haven't applied my logic to anything or caught me in some trap. You just keep going with the same no limits fallacy as always.

Kitty is untouchable to any physical attack. Why cause she went through metal, stone, and a few people wow that's a real good range of feats to make such a broad and absolute claim. That was sarcasm by the way.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
That would suggest he has a healing factor since he got stabbed and it healed.

So unless he healed his body through concrete along with his cloths it was due to his durability he survived no other special power.

Not to mention in the same scene you are referring to Storm KOes Cain with the help of Wolverine acting as a conduit for lightning.

Which also makes your earlier claim of Cain being Invulnerable in accurate.

We know Cain survived by because of his durability(It's only relevant power he ahs to keep him dying in that isntance), we don't know how Kitty phases we don't know how her phasing would handle having an object with special properties put through it like Thor's hammer or Cap's Shield.

Thus you haven't applied my logic to anything or caught me in some trap. You just keep going with the same no limits fallacy as always.

Kitty is untouchable to any physical attack. Why cause she went through metal, stone, and a few people wow that a real good range of feats to make such a claim a broad and absolute claim. That was sarcasm by the way.

Again "don't know"? You the same the same strict logic you're applying to Kitty.

Being KO'ed by lightning isn't the same as being stabbed or being phased.

Again, you don't know for sure, so why claim one and not the other. Again, if you don't know if Mjolnir would affect Kitty, what exactly are you arguing here?

Incorrect, I'm applying your same "don't know" tactic, you're just dictating when "I don't know" applies, despite not knowing. ie if something can potentially defeat Thor, then apply "we don't know".

Going with what's shown is the way to go, she phased through solids, unless otherwise shown. But again, if you don't know if Mjolnir will affect Kitty, since it has absolutely zero "affecting phased objects" feats as Kitty has "being hit by Mjolnir" feats, what exactly are you debating? Cos it seems to be little more than Thor wanking as seen in the MVF many a time

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Again "don't know"? You the same the same strict logic you're applying to Kitty.

Being KO'ed by lightning isn't the same as being stabbed or being phased.

Again, you don't know for sure. Again, if you don't know if Mjolnir would affect Kitty, what exactly are you arguing here?

Incorrect, I'm applying your same "don't know" tactic, you're just dictating when "I don't know" applies, despite not knowing. ie if something can potentially defeat Thor, then apply "we don't know".

Going with what's shown is the way to go. But again, if you don't know if Mjolnir will affect Kitty, since it has absolutely zero "affecting phased objects" feats as Kitty has "being hit by Mjolnir" feats, what exactly are you debating? Cos it seems to be little more than Thor wanking as seen in the MVF many a time

I'm arguing and have been arguing the fact you can't assign Kitty an auto win just because you feel like she her powers are absolute when clearly she has limited feats, and none going up against crazy materials like this.

If she had better feats then I'd be willing to stretch it a little more but her current ones are severely underpowered. So going from she has phased through some physical attacks and items of low stature to she can phase through ALL physical based attacks is quite a jump.

I'd be willing to make the argument it is less of a jump to assume Thor's hammer can interact with phased objects considering it's origins and power vs the bland and absolute statement that Kitty can phase through all things physical. And neither one would I say is absolute, but if I was betting man in this fight Thor fighting smart(Like he did on multiple occasions) solos everyone on the other teams.

BlackZero30x
.....I get the feeling you both are arguing the same thing just opposite sides of the coin.

Kitty phased through solids but not solids of a magical nature. For all we know she can only phase through the solids she showed that she could on screen.

So basically my point is arguing what kitty can and can't do will always come down to "well she did this so she can do this" with a rebuttal of "but she wasn't shown to do this so how do we know she can?"

I think this is self feeding continuing debate.

Newjak
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
.....I get the feeling you both are arguing the same thing just opposite sides of the coin.

Kitty phased through solids but not solids of a magical nature. For all we know she can only phase through the solids she showed that she could on screen.

So basically my point is arguing what kitty can and can't do will always come down to "well she did this so she can do this" with a rebuttal of "but she wasn't shown to do this so how do we know she can?"

I think this is self feeding continuing debate. I think you are a self feeding continuing debate no expression

stick out tongue

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
I'm arguing and have been arguing the fact you can't assign Kitty an auto win just because you feel like she her powers are absolute when clearly she has limited feats, and none going up against crazy materials like this.

If she had better feats then I'd be willing to stretch it a little more but her current ones are severely underpowered. So going from she has phased through some physical attacks and items of low stature to she can phase through ALL physical based attacks is quite a jump.

I'd be willing to make the argument it is less of a jump to assume Thor's hammer can interact with phased objects considering it's origins and power vs the bland and absolute statement that Kitty can phase through all things physical. And neither one would I say is absolute, but if I was betting man in this fight Thor fighting smart solos everyone on the other teams.

Except I can considering we do know Kitty can phase through solids and that Mjolnir is a solid object. If you want to say "Mjolnir's magic might allow it to affect a phased Kitty", no problem; I'm game. But it's up to you to prove that, not the other way around considering Kitty for a fact has the phasing through solids going for her while Mjolnier has zero in regards to affecting phased objects.

Better feats? Considering Mjolnir has shown absolutely nothing to tell us it could affect phased objects, why not apply the "better feats" stipulation to Mjolnir? Cos smashing shit, returning to the owner and summoning lightning isn't comparable.

Which is Thor wanking considering the above. Kitty at least has shown she can phase through solids, so she has the "solid object" aspect of Mjolnir covered, while Mjolnir has no power that even mildly applies to it affecting Kitty. And no, affecting electronics isn't it.

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Newjak
I think you are a self feeding continuing debate no expression

stick out tongue

in concede laughing out loud

Robtard
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
.....I get the feeling you both are arguing the same thing just opposite sides of the coin.

Kitty phased through solids but not solids of a magical nature. For all we know she can only phase through the solids she showed that she could on screen.

So basically my point is arguing what kitty can and can't do will always come down to "well she did this so she can do this" with a rebuttal of "but she wasn't shown to do this so how do we know she can?"

I think this is self feeding continuing debate.

Except Kitty has the phasing through solids going for her, while Mjolnir has zero in regards to affecting phased matter.

It's more of a 'can Mjolnir's magical aspect affect a phased Kitty', as she's got the solid aspect covered. ie Kitty + 1 Mjolnir 0, going with movie feats only.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Except I can considering we do know Kitty can phase through solids and that Mjolnir is a solid object. If you want to say "Mjolnir's magic might allow it to affect a phased Kitty", no problem, but it's up to you to prove that, not the other way around considering Kitty for a fact has the phasing through solids going for her while Mjolnier has zero in regards to affecting phased objects.

Better feats? Considering Mjolnir has shown absolutely nothing to tell us it could affect phased objects, why not apply the "better feats" stipulation to Mjolnir? Cos smashing shit, returning to the owner and summoning lightning isn't comparable.

Which is Thor wanking considering the above. Kitty at least has shown she can phase through solids. She has that going in regards to Mjolnir while Mjolnir has no power that even mildly applies. And no, affecting electronics isn't it. Did I say it had to be magic, I also brought up Cap's shields cause it has special properties.

You could also bring up other things like Sue's Shields, energy based attacks, any number of things she has never been tested against so we don't know how she would fair.

If she had said phased through a lightning bolt from Storm, or survived a nuke I'd more inclined to believe her limits are higher but will not assign her a can take any type of physical attack based on such low end feats as phasing through some stone, metal, and people, and failing to stop the Juggernaut with one of her phasing attacks.

That's not exactly a huge list of great feats to assign her the title that she can defy all physical attacks.

Thor has a hammer that can control lightning, wind, interfere with Earth based technologies by it's mere presence, has enchantments on it that make it so the Hulk can not even pick up. Deflect Beams of Light and Energy/Laser Beams. Was forged in the heart of a dying star so we know it brings some juice.

It's not Thor wanking to suggest a hammer that by all base accounts can effect things on levels that are just physical could effect Kitty with her very limited set of feats.

And Thor could solo the field fighting smart.

All the other teams have two fliers combined to fight against Thor. If he takes to the air no one here is touching him since neither Johnny Storm or Storm is beating him solo.

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Robtard
Except Kitty has the phasing through solids going for her, while Mjolnir has zero in regards to affecting phased matter.

It's more of a 'can Mjolnir's magic affect a phased Kitty', as she's got the solid aspect covered. ie Kitty + 1 Mjolnir 0.

but your grouping all solid matter in one. All we know is she can phase through the solid matter that she showed she could. So by your own argument while Mjolnir has no feats affecting something thats phased there is just as much of a lack of feats showing she can phase through something mystical in nature. Heck she doesn't have the feats to prove she can phase through metals or material from Asgard either.

So as I said this will just keep feeding itself.

Newjak
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
but your grouping all solid matter in one. All we know is she can phase through the solid matter that she showed she could. So by your own argument while Mjolnir has no feats affecting something thats phased there is just as much of a lack of feats showing she can phase through something mystical in nature. Heck she doesn't have the feats to prove she can phase through metals or material from Asgard either.

So as I said this will just keep feeding itself. This statement I like it... ANOTHER!!!

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say it had to be magic, I also brought up Cap's shields cause it has special properties.

You could also bring up other things like Sue's Shields, energy based attacks, any number of things she has never been tested against so we don't know how she would fair.

If she had said phased through a lightning bolt from Storm, or survived a nuke I'd more inclined to believe her limits are higher but will not assign her a can take any type of physical attack based on such low end feats as phasing through some stone, metal, and people, and failing to stop the Juggernaut with one of her phasing attacks.

That's not exactly a huge list of great feats to assign her the title that she can defy all physical attacks.

Thor has a hammer that can control lightning, wind, interfere with Earth based technologies by it's mere presence, has enchantments on it that make it so the Hulk can not even pick up. Deflect Beams of Light and Energy/Laser Beams. Was forged in the heart of a dying star so we know it brings some juice.

It's not Thor wanking to suggest a hammer that by all base accounts can effect things on levels that are just physical could effect Kitty with her very limited set of feats.

And Thor could solo the field fighting smart.

All the other teams have two fliers combined to fight against Thor. If he takes to the air no one here is touching him since neither Johnny Storm or Storm is beating him solo.

Same would apply to Cap's shield, if you want to say vibraium's aborbing powers will affect a phased object, no problem. It's up to you to prove it, considering we at least know the shield is solid and Kitty has that part covered.

I did bring up Sue's shields in here. I noted that the Silver Surfer went through them and he was seen similarly phasing through solids. Marwash also brought up a good point concerning that. This is more of an unknown than Mjolnir though.

Agreed, Mjolnir is a vastly powerful weapon, to solids, as seen.

Except of course by saying "to suggest a hammer that by all base accounts can effect things on levels that are just physical could effect Kitty" is exactly what you're accusing me of. The only none physical thing the hammer affected was causing some sort of possible electromagnetic interference, that or it's a powerful radio in kind.

Robtard
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
but your grouping all solid matter in one. All we know is she can phase through the solid matter that she showed she could. So by your own argument while Mjolnir has no feats affecting something thats phased there is just as much of a lack of feats showing she can phase through something mystical in nature. Heck she doesn't have the feats to prove she can phase through metals or material from Asgard either.

So as I said this will just keep feeding itself.

Until it's shown that some solid in question has some sort of 'affecting phased matter' attribute, yes. Why wouldn't I?

Are we really going to go to extremes and say Kitty can only phase through exact solids we've seen? Plaster wall, wood and concrete; nothing else? Cos if so, apply the same ridiculous limitations to Thor and Mjolnir.

Agreed with that.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Same would apply to Cap's shield, if you want to say vibraium's aborbing powers will affect a phased object, no problem. It's up to you to prove it, considering we at least know the shield is solid and Kitty has that part covered.

I did bring up Sue's shields in here. I noted that the Silver Surfer went through them and he was seen similarly phasing through solids. Marwash also brought up a good point concerning that. This is more of an unknown than Mjolnir though.

Agreed, Mjolnir is a vastly powerful weapon, to solids, as seen.

Except of course by saying "to suggest a hammer that by all base accounts can effect things on levels that are just physical could effect Kitty" is exactly what you're accusing me of. The only none physical thing the hammer affected was causing some sort of possible electromagnetic interference, that or it's a powerful radio in kind. The rest is teh same but I already shown how Silver surfer didn't phase to get through Sue's shield.

It happens when we clearly see Doom,using surfer's Powers, launch a metal spike at Reed using the same material Surfer is made of. Sue tries to jump in front and block it but it goes right through her shields and stabs her while half of it is still sticking out of the shield.

If had been phasing that was the reason Surfer had gone through the shields then doom's attack would have bounced of off Sue's Shield yet it passes through the same way Surfer did.

And before you say the spike was phased, if it had been phased going through the shield it wouldn't have hit Sue and gone right through her.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
The rest is teh same but I already shown how Silver surfer didn't phase to get through Sue's shield.

It happens when we clearly see Doom,using surfer's Powers, launch a metal spike at Reed using the same material Surfer is made of. Sue tries to jump in front and block it but it goes right through her shields and stabs her while half of it is still sticking out of the shield.

If had been phasing that was the reason Surfer had gone through the shields then doom's attack would have bounced of off Sue's Shield yet it passes through the same way Surfer did.

And before you say the spike was phased, if it had been phased going through the shield it wouldn't have hit Sue and gone right through her.

As I said, the Silver was a possible, not a certainty.

Originally posted by marwash22
that shield was shown to stop solid matter, if Kitty isn't solid, i don't see why it would stop her.

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Newjak
This statement I like it... ANOTHER!!! What can I say im a boss like that cool laughing out loud

Originally posted by Robtard
Until it's shown that some solid in question has some sort of 'affecting phased matter' attribute, yes. Why wouldn't I?

Are we really going to go to extremes and say Kitty can only phase through exact solids we've seen? Plaster wall, wood and concrete; nothing else? Cos if so, apply the same ridiculous limitations to Thor and Mjolnir.

Agreed with that.

I was just making a point. By the same logic that Mjolnir hasn't shown to affect phased objects she has no feats affecting all solid items......but my real point is affecting materials from Asgard or of a mystical nature.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
As I said, the Silver was a possible, not a certainty. How would it not be a certainty when we clearly see the Silver used to physically bypass her shield later?

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
How would it not be a certainty when we clearly see the Silver used to physically bypass her shield later?

I'm not disagreeing with you in terms of Surfer. I've since seen the that scene and he simply just sticks his head through, by all appearances.

see:

Originally posted by marwash22
that shield was shown to stop solid matter, if Kitty isn't solid, i don't see why it would stop her.

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