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Current versions. Plus whichever spoilers we want to use.

If Maul ever surpassed Dooku he would have replaced him as his apprentice. Sidious specifically says he was replaced/surpassed as he was raping him and Oppress.

Who says Sidious might not keep him alive to see if he has surpassed Dooku? Theres nothing that shows he definitely kills him in that duel as I recall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who says Sidious might not keep him alive to see if he has surpassed Dooku? Theres nothing that shows he definitely kills him in that duel as I recall.

You might be right. It's actually not confirmed he kills Maul.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who says Sidious might not keep him alive to see if he has surpassed Dooku? Theres nothing that shows he definitely kills him in that duel as I recall.

And what has Maul shown to put him above Tyranus?

Well he literally stomped Opress for one thing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well he literally stomped Opress for one thing.

As would Dooku.

Ok. If you say so.

I want to get a handle on Maul now. He's apparently above Ventress if he can so casually beat his bro, so I'm curious to see how he matches up.

I really hope they are not trying to put Maul in Dooku's league. It just doesn't seem right.

But then again... it would just make Sidious that much more impressive

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I really hope they are not trying to put Maul in Dooku's league. It just doesn't seem right.

Well, as an apprentice, he's expected to get there *eventually*, but yea. Maul might be at the point where he'd be a fight for Dooku, but not an equal.

One thing at a time. Let's see if he can take Obi-Wan first.

The fact that Maul and Savage together fail to defeat Obi-Wan really isn't a good start for Maul to be compared to Dooku.

He also needs Force feats to show Dooku won't just TK him.

But yeah his literal stomp of Savage is impressive. He must be the first guy who hasn't been effected by Savage's tremendous strength in the slightest.

Maul hasn't done anything that makes me say that Dooku can't tool him with relative ease.

^ Relative ease? I don't about that.

Anyone who can completely manhandle Savage's tremendous strength like that added to the level of skill and training Maul has will prove a definite challenge to Dooku Imho.

But yes I still say Dooku is sufficiently above him in an all out considering Maul apparently keeps failing to take Obi-Wan.

Not to mention all of Dooku's amazing Force TK feats.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I really hope they are not trying to put Maul in Dooku's league. It just doesn't seem right.

But then again... it would just make Sidious that much more impressive
I doubt it considering even with Savage as back up they had trouble with Ventress and Kenobi.

Ventress and Kenobi are good fighters.

Plus Maul was clearly beating Kenobi.

Nah the Ventress/Obi-Wan fight was fine. They were all tough warriors in that fight and it was Maul's first fight in over 10 years.

And if your thinking Dooku can take Ventress and Obi-Wan on his own, well Dooku's just good at taking on multiple opponents so that A>B>C doesn't really work.

The main thing that gives me doubts about making this comparison is Maul and Savage together failing to defeat an Obi-Wan wielding 2 Sabers.

Unless of course they're trying to show us that Obi-Wan in Sabers is up there with Dooku..

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ventress and Kenobi are good fighters.

Plus Maul was clearly beating Kenobi.

That's not my point. My point is that Maul was having trouble beating Kenobi. Dooku is in a different tier than both of them imo, if you add in Savage or any other Mid-High tier this becomes a match.

From the spoilers I've read courtesy of those who have seen the season 5 premiere, Obi-Wan's defeat of Maul and Savage is extremely hard fought and context specific. I'm not sure it means any more than Asajj's brief curbstomp of Obi-Wan and Anakin in "Nightsisters" or Savage's moment of advantage over Dooku and Asajj in "Witches of the Mist", etc.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
From the spoilers I've read courtesy of those who have seen the season 5 premiere, Obi-Wan's defeat of Maul and Savage is extremely hard fought and context specific. I'm not sure it means any more than Asajj's brief curbstomp of Obi-Wan and Anakin in "Nightsisters" or Savage's moment of advantage over Dooku and Asajj in "Witches of the Mist", etc.

I figured as such. Because we've seen Ventress and Opress doing the same kind of thing in the past in context specific situations.

The fight in question is after Obi-Wan witnesses Opress killing Adi. That's bound to make Kenobi fight better than usual to avenge her. Whilst in the promo Maul sounds a bit overconfident before the fight starts saying "Your no match for us"

Also the fight looks like it's in a very enclosed space meaning Obi-Wan might be able to try fighting them one at a time, whilst in a more open space the duo together could perhaps just force Tk him all over the place.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That's not my point. My point is that Maul was having trouble beating Kenobi. Dooku is in a different tier than both of them imo, if you add in Savage or any other Mid-High tier this becomes a match.

Or perhaps Obi-Wan is closer to Dooku in Sabers than we thought.

As for force abilities we already know Opress has greater Force Tk feats than Kenobi, and I'm guessing Maul will have similar raw power to Opress, seen as after Maul stomps Opress he says to him "You've become powerful"

Interestingly, TCW's magazine (not Insider) suggests that Savage's powers are greater than Maul's. I personally don't buy it for a number of reasons anymore than I take my cues from junior novelizations and other works aimed towards children, but there you are.

Yeah, definately not after this I'd say:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
LOL I've found the Maul vs Savage fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2s5H4kbmjw

It's at around 6:40.

And yeah it's a proper stomp!

Not had a chance to watch the whole thing yet, so not sure how much of the episode is on it.

Edit- Yeah checked it's just some Maul and Savage scenes. The rest is an interview.

Actually, the magazine does specify that Maul's abilities as a swordsman and fighter are superior, but that Savage's Force powers are greater. I still don't buy it, even though Maul putting Savage on his ass in that clip does nothing to contradict it.

Well Maul has never impressed me with his Force powers, so I'm a bit more open to that. He hasn't done anything as impressive as lifting those obelisks at least.

Maul has been enhanced by Talzin's magic after all.

I'm pretty sure Maul goes Starkiller on some newbz with Savage in the recently released Death Sentence comic, but I'm going to download it just to check.

Yeah, just flipping through: Maul lifts and hurls nine armed soldiers at once while speaking to Savage; later, he and Savage drop from a tunnel and both emit a Force wave that scatters dozens of an approaching army, scattering them like leaves before a hurricane's gale and the present Jedi Master and his padawan withstand with noticeable effort; then when Savage is captured, Maul escapes by collapsing the massive tunnel and loosing an avalanche of rocks through the Force. I wish I could provide screen captures, but I can't atm.

Tossing 9 people really isn't that great of a feat, honestly. I mean, on the general "force scale". We've seen padawans/apprentices hurl multi-ton electronics around before.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Tossing 9 people really isn't that great of a feat, honestly. I mean, on the general "force scale". We've seen padawans/apprentices hurl multi-ton electronics around before.

That's true, but it's better than what we've seen from him before.

Give him time, grasshopper. He'll be pwning capital ships and slaying Gungans before the year's out.

Somehow I doubt that considering spoilers.

You never know, especially since Witwer's been recording dialogue for Maul supposedly post-S5.

His imminuity to electricity is pretty impressive, and when somebody tried to read his mind they died instantly. And there is no doubt Maul is more skilled swordsman than Dooku.

It's true he's never had any high end force feats, but to be fair he's never had any low showings either.

But with Current Maul I really don't see how else he could just manhandle Opress's tremendous strength like that, without having gained vast power in the force himself.

Unless he's supposed to be physically on par with Opress.

Either way I'm sure there was more to it than just Judo arm twists. Even with his Saber he was easily parrying Opress's 2 handed strikes with just one hand. And Opress does say to him "You've become powerful"

It looked to me like he was deflecting the momentum of the blows. And he's always been pretty strong, though not as strong.

Originally posted by Q99
It looked to me like he was deflecting the momentum of the blows.

Possible. But what about the arm twist. Could have been some martial art move, but he'd still have to be pretty damn strong to do that to Opress Imo.

The question is if that strength is physical, or if it's come from a boost in power.

Originally posted by iamberserk!
His imminuity to electricity is pretty impressive, and when somebody tried to read his mind they died instantly. And there is no doubt Maul is more skilled swordsman than Dooku.

What?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What?

You're right. If we talk about pure fencing, Count Dooku is likely the most skilled in the PT era (except Yoda). The Master of Makashi has to mean that much at least. Saying anything else is stupid.

But overall in close combat Maul may be a more skilled combatant, because you have to factor in his martial art skills, mastery of more unorthodox weapons like the Saber staff and fighting forms like Teras Kasi, Jar Kai e.t.c.

Now comparing Current Maul to Dooku I'm thinking about the Dooku vs Ventress & Opress fight, and thinking if we replaced Dooku with Maul in that fight, then Opress would have been cut down quite quickly which would have just left Maul vs Ventress.

On the other hand that maybe a bad A>B>C argument. Dunno.

I got the feeling in that fight that if Dooku had wanted to take Opress out he could have.

As much as I'd like to think that, I doubt he was holding back on him simply because he ordered his droids commander to eliminate him, the reason being he was a traitor.

IMO there were a few times when Opress was clearly open and he could have killed him but didn't.

For what it's worth, the official website notes that Dooku's abilities "barely" gave him the edge over Ventress and Opress in their fight.

That seems a bit of an understatement considering he was easily dancing around Opress and then wtfpwning him with Force Lightning. The only part where he looked to be in any danger was when Opress battered him across the room and got all roidrage on both of them.

Haven't watched the fight in a while, but I'm not sure I ever considered their fight to be one of ease. One-on-one, though? Maybe.

I did, and my interpretation is just that. He makes Opress look like an utter noob, sidestepping and pirouetting out of the way of his attacks. He also doesn't seem to have much of a problem with Ventress imo, dodging her while unarmed.

Watching it now and I still don't see the ease. Evading/blocking strikes doesn't indicate the ease with which it is done. Dooku gives ground, gets ragdolled by Savage literally the first time their blades meet, and spends more time isolating him via Force lightning and trying to get his saber back. He's definitely their superior, especially when the Force comes into play, but I'm not seeing the ease.

Eh, it indicates it to me. Being able to straight up dance around your opponent without even having to use your weapon indicates a large element of superiority in my opinion. What else would indicate ease?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, it indicates it to me. Being able to straight up dance around your opponent without even having to use your weapon indicates a large element of superiority in my opinion. What else would indicate ease?

I don't think so. It could be that Dooku, having trained Asajj, knows her technique well enough to predict her moves well enough to evade them or, equally likely, that his power in the Force affords him enough speed and precognition to evade them.

But as Dooku says later, Ventress was able to match him with her "pet."

Both of which still equal him dodging her with ease. I was also talking about Opress btw.

No, he says that she isn't able to match him without her monster, not that she could with him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Both of which still equal him dodging her with ease. I was also talking about Opress btw.

The "ease" is in your mind, son. Dooku and the official site say otherwise.

/argument

Originally posted by Nephthys No, he says that she isn't able to match him without her monster, not that she could with him.

Same thing, bro.

Yes, you are both my son and my bro.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You're right. If we talk about pure fencing, Count Dooku is likely the most skilled in the PT era (except Yoda). The Master of Makashi has to mean that much at least. Saying anything else is stupid.

But overall in close combat Maul may be a more skilled combatant, because you have to factor in his martial art skills, mastery of more unorthodox weapons like the Saber staff and fighting forms like Teras Kasi, Jar Kai e.t.c.

Now comparing Current Maul to Dooku I'm thinking about the Dooku vs Ventress & Opress fight, and thinking if we replaced Dooku with Maul in that fight, then Opress would have been cut down quite quickly which would have just left Maul vs Ventress.

On the other hand that maybe a bad A>B>C argument. Dunno.

I do not believe that in a 2 v 1 fight Maul could dispense of Savage as easily as you think.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, it indicates it to me. Being able to straight up dance around your opponent without even having to use your weapon indicates a large element of superiority in my opinion. What else would indicate ease?

That suggested Dooku was faster. But then as soon as their blades connected Dooku was floored, suggesting Opress was stronger.

But being floored and disarmed of your weapon is hardly an indication of it being an easy fight for the Count. And the fact is he never actually defeated either one of them (in the 2 on 1).

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I do not believe that in a 2 v 1 fight Maul could dispense of Savage as easily as you think.

I still think he would cut him down fairly quickly though. Opress's strength doesn't seem to bother Maul one bit making him almost a non-factor to Maul.

The evolution of fighting has shown us that ultimately, striking prevails over grappling. Fights start off standing and stay that way unless somebody is able to take it to the ground. And that to defend against the TD you don;t have to be even as close to as good as they are at grappling, you just need to be quite good at the defence. So ultimately the fight will stay in its neutral state, that is standing, unless one of them is really bad at TDD. This is why, ultimately, the style of fighting that truly prevails is stirking + TDD. I see no reason why this would be any different in Star wars, A FAR MORE evolved society. As direct force attacks, such as telikenesis, are essentially a form of grappling, all a fighter needs to learn to do is defend against the TD to remain competitive, and keep the fight standing, in its neutral state.

Maul is one such fighter, An incredibly powerful Sith Apprentice that has shown immunity to mind control and electricity, he is far too powerful to be taken down by Dooku with TK. So as Maul can defend against the TD the fight remains standing, in which case Maul can easily outstrike Dookue, either to a decision win, a TKO/KO or decapitation. He is a master of multiple styles and far more athletic. This fight plays out no more different than Junior Dos Santos vs Cain Velasquez. Ultimately the superior striker with TDD prevails.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That suggested Dooku was faster. But then as soon as their blades connected Dooku was floored, suggesting Opress was stronger.

Indeed, however being faster is much more important in a lightsaber fight, where every strike is either fatal or crippling. All Dooku needed to do is get around Opress' guard once (which he did imo) and hit him once to win the fight.

Strenght is also important when the sabers clash however. A strong guard weill help withstand a strong attack. A strong attack will wear down opponent's sword, stance, heart and cardio. It depends on the style but usually i agree, speed is more important.

Originally posted by iheartchael
Strenght is also important when the sabers clash however. A strong guard weill help withstand a strong attack. A strong attack will wear down opponent's sword, stance, heart and cardio. It depends on the style but usually i agree, speed is more important.

Pretty much yes. Strength can be a deciding factor, but if you don't need to clash sabers because you're that much faster then it becomes obsolete.

Dooku is not that much faster than opress, if at all. Opress as a Zabrak is much more atheletic and he is also younger.

And yet Dooku danced around him in their fight, hence my point.

That is because Makashi is much more graceful than Djem So (duh). It is based both on real world fencing and also the dancing arts of the Twilek slavegirls.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And yet Dooku danced around him in their fight, hence my point.

Which would have been really impressive if his little cocky dance didn't end with him being on his ass with no weapon.

Besides, Obi-Wan evaded Ventress's blades at close quarters... after she disarmed him. It's not necessarily an indicator of superiority. Perhaps just precise precognition and equal speed, nimble footwork, etc.?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Which would have been really impressive if his little cocky dance didn't end with him being on his ass with no weapon.

It's still impressive. It hints to me that Dooku would be able to outmaneuver and kill Savage with 0 diff.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It's still impressive. It hints to me that Dooku would be able to outmaneuver and kill Savage with 0 diff.

Well that would certainly explain why Dooku did just that in their fight.

Dooku didn't seem to be trying to attack at all Savage in that fight imo. He was playing keep away and focusing on taking down Ventress. He might have been thinking that if he could take her down he could undo whatever mind control she had on him. That way he could at least keep Savage as an enforcer.

Maybe, but Dooku doesn't strike me as being all that forgiving when someone tries to kill him.

I'm sticking with the official site on this one.

I'd be curious to see where it says that on the official site. Navigating it is such a pain imo.

Slide 8 of 10.

stoned

9_9

7_7

6_9

Sometimes I wish I could just ignore the parts of canon that I think are stupid and wrong.

Me too, I'd begin with a systematic purge of all things Karpyshyn. All things.

Kotor 1 was written by him, so we can't agree there.

Collateral damage. It's worth the ensuing purification.

No Kotor 1 would mean no Kotor 2, and I love Kotor 2 so much that I **** it.

I was thinking more about things that I just think sources get wrong, like where it says in the Complete Encyclopedia that Kreia tried to kill the Exile on Dantooine.

Yes, but I was thinking moar ambitiously. Karpyshyn is a foul taint upon the glory of the franchise. KotOR II and Dark Empire are next on my hitlist. Together, we shall revolutionize canon and rebuild it in my image.

Which is to say it will look better than anything ever.

Then I must stand against you. As pleasing as your image may be, without Kotor 2 it will be but a hollow beauty. Not worthy of my wuv.

To quote the venerable lords of rock, Def Leppard, I need your touch, don't need your love.

Then you'll get neither, you cad.

Karpshyan's damage cannot be compared to the damage that Karen Traviss did.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
To quote the venerable lords of rock, Def Leppard

No.

CW Maul=ROTS Obi Wan imo so Dooku owns. Allthough Dooku beating Obi Wan in 20seconds is do to Obi Wan not being good at fighting with others(example Obi Wan and Qui Gon Vs Maul Obi Wan got knocked out in seconds then 1 on 1 layed the smack on Maul) and do to Obi Wan being caught of guard. However Dooku still would have owned him imo.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
CW Maul=ROTS Obi Wan imo so Dooku owns.


Quite possibly but not necessarily. Dooku owned Obi-Wan with the Force. Maul may have better Force defenses than Obi-Wan. But we will just have to see.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Quite possibly but not necessarily. Dooku owned Obi-Wan with the Force. Maul may have better Force defenses than Obi-Wan. But we will just have to see.

At this point in time Obi-Wan has superior force feats to Maul.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
At this point in time Obi-Wan has superior force feats to Maul.

True.

I could live without KotOR1. I beat it for the first time a couple weeks ago- wasn't terribly impressed. It actually started off great but got progressively more anti-climactic as Malak, who is the most boring and incompetent villain ever, got more involved.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
At this point in time Obi-Wan has superior force feats to Maul.

Times have changed dude. I think Maul vs Dooku would definitely be a decent fight now.

Really, after Keno8i handled him like that?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Really, after Keno8i handled him like that?

Yeah because the only reason Kenobi can't compete with Dooku is he's outclassed in the Force. That's not the case with Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Times have changed dude. I think Maul vs Dooku would definitely be a decent fight now.

And what TK feat/ TK defense feat does he have that suggests Dooku will not give him the rag doll treatment.

He manged to pull the Jedi's shuttle off a cliff to 8lock pursuit in the new episode.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He manged to pull the Jedi's shuttle off a cliff to 8lock pursuit in the new episode.

Yeah I heard. I still don't see him coming out on top, especially considering that was an extremely desperate maul. Also he outright lost to a Kenobi that would be weaker than his ROTS incarnation.
Actually rewatching the fight Maul's got some TK chops now. He ragdolled Kenobi, twice.
However Dooku should be physically Maul's superior considering he was able to block both Kenobi and Skywalker's blade in a one handed saber lock, and Savage and Maul combined had difficulty pushing Kenobi back.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

However Dooku should be physically Maul's superior

I doubt that. Maul's upper body strength was enough to easily twist Opress's arm. And his mechanical feet were strong enough to keep Opress pinned down.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
and Savage and Maul combined had difficulty pushing Kenobi back.

I remember them having trouble defeating him because he just outclassed them in combat skill.

I don't remember them having difficulty in just pushing him back though.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I doubt that. Maul's upper body strength was enough to easily twist Opress's arm. And his mechanical feet were strong enough to keep Opress pinned down.

The same Maul that couldn't overpower Obi-Wan in a saber lock when he had Savage supporting him.




They had a lot of difficulty. The only time Maul and Savage had the edge it was because of Mauls TK. Kenobi outright stomped them in raw sabers.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kenobi outright stomped them in raw sabers.

Either we didn't watch the same episode or your definition of "stomp" differs wildly from mine.

O8i-Wan 'won' 8y 8eing tactical and repeatedly focusing on Savage's knee. That doesn't show that he's 8etter than them in 'raw sa8ers'. 8efore that they had him dead to rights, pressed up to a wall. He couldn't 8eat them str8 up, end of story imo.

Oh, good. We did see the same episode, then.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Either we didn't watch the same episode or your definition of "stomp" differs wildly from mine.

Kenobi was evading and blocking both of their attacks with barely any stress, and was simultaneously landing blows on Savage. He won in seconds dude. That fight barely lasted a minute. That's why Maul resorted to TK.

Originally posted by Nephthys
O8i-Wan 'won' 8y 8eing tactical and repeatedly focusing on Savage's knee. That doesn't show that he's 8etter than them in 'raw sa8ers'. 8efore that they had him dead to rights, pressed up to a wall. He couldn't 8eat them str8 up, end of story imo.

How is that not show he is better. He broke Savage's knee...that wasn't his weak spot or anything.

facepalm I'm so glad I don't care about this place anymore.

Obi-Wan tried more than once to isolate them through kicks rather than take them both on. We also saw that more than once did each brother fall back to allow the other the opportunity to take Obi-Wan on alone. The confined quarters would clearly hamper the Zabraks as much as aid them; coordination was a priority lest a brother accidentally lose a limb at the hands of his brother. When Obi-Wan clashed with both of them at once, he had his back against the wall and only broke the lock by buckling Savage's knee, which he had been working on the entire fight.

It's telling why Obi-Wan retreated when taking the brothers on in open quarters after Adi Gallia was killed.



Until the last one, those blows were overwhelmingly underwhelming.



"Won"?
Maul still had his weapons and both arms. How exactly did Obi-Wan win by being thrown down the corridor and buried alive?



And?



Pretty weak, man. One could use the same logic to say that Obi-Wan was fvcked, ergo he resorted to kicks to win the day.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Obi-Wan tried more than once to isolate them through kicks rather than take them both on. We also saw that more than once did each brother fall back to allow the other the opportunity to take Obi-Wan on alone. The confined quarters would clearly hamper the Zabraks as much as aid them; coordination was a priority lest a brother accidentally lose a limb at the hands of his brother. When Obi-Wan clashed with both of them at once, he had his back against the wall and only broke the lock by buckling Savage's knee, which he had been working on the entire fight.

Your point is mute because the only reason Kenobi had his back against the wall was because Maul TK'ed him. Until then he was doing fine. Meaning in raw swordsmanship Kenobi is vastly superior to both of them.


Wut, both brothers are physical juggernaughts, in an enclosed space they should have the advantage.


Because Kenobi was way faster than both of them and was able to not get into saber locks.




And?
"Look at them, how powerful can they be they are running away from Kenobi." It is clear they were making a withdrawal, and clear Kenobi bested them. It is stated by the staff that Kenobi defeated them.


How is that weak at all?
Kenobi was landing blows in on Savage and Maul while dodging all of their attacks. The only time the Maul brothers had anything close to of advantage was when Maul TKed him. That shows me that in raw sabers and physical ability Kenobi is their superior.

Well that does explain why Obi-Wan killed Maul pretty quickly when Adi was fighting Savage.



Sure, if they're willing to maim or potentially kill the other.



I'm talking about the kicks, are you talking about the swords?



Again, what part of Obi-Wan being ragdolled and buried alive constitutes a victory on his part?



If that were so, Obi-Wan would have trashed Maul the other two times in the show he fought him one-on-one. Not buying it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It is stated by the staff that Kenobi defeated them.

Direct quote?

It would be awesome if they stated this.

That said he certainly didn't "stomp" them in sabers, but he was winning. Saying he was tactical doesn't undermine it at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
8efore that they had him dead to rights, pressed up to a wall.

Apparently not.

Why are you asking for a direct quote? You don't get to come in here and undermine established canon.

Stop it.

Stop.

Sorry.

Won't ask again.

Thanks. I can't handle it when people come in and ask for prooftry to overthrow canon.

But back on topic, Maul curbstomps. Multiple sourcebooks say he is way more powerful than Dooku and could effortlessly beat him in a fight.

Originally posted by ares834
Apparently not.

Apparantly not what?

http://www.animeflavor.com/index.php?q=node/41984

He was fvcking dead. If he couldn't have made Savage crumple when he did he would have died. Theres no getting out of that position.

Originally posted by ares834
Direct quote?

It would be awesome if they stated this.

That said he certainly didn't "stomp" them in sabers, but he was winning. Saying he was tactical doesn't undermine it at all.



Apparently not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8PEGa3Wq50&feature=related
13:52
"Obi-Wan is much more focused and ready...he's a very skilled swordsman."
"It's more of a tie" Sam
"Nah."Filoni outright dismisses that the fight was a tie at all.
"

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Why are you asking for a direct quote? You don't get to come in here and undermine established canon.

Stop it.

Stop.

Ugh you are an annoying troll.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Thanks. I can't handle it when people come in and ask for prooftry to overthrow canon.

But back on topic, Maul curbstomps. Multiple sourcebooks say he is way more powerful than Dooku and could effortlessly beat him in a fight.

Except they do not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres no getting out of that position.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that...

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ugh you are an annoying troll.

Your rage is naught but an aphrodisiac.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except they do not.

They do. You do not get to come in here and undermine established canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Apparantly not what?

http://www.animeflavor.com/index.php?q=node/41984

He was fvcking dead. If he couldn't have made Savage crumple when he did he would have died. Theres no getting out of that position.

But he did. So clearly he wasn't "dead to rights".

He escaped the predicament through his own skill and not some PIS moment.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8PEGa3Wq50&feature=related
13:52
"Obi-Wan is much more focused and ready...he's a very skilled swordsman."
"It's more of a tie" Sam
"Nah."Filoni outright dismisses that the fight was a tie at all.

Good. Good.

Originally posted by ares834
But he did. So clearly he wasn't "dead to rights".

Actually, multiple sourcebooks say that they did, in fact, have him dead to rights. Sorry.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your rage is naught but an aphrodisiac.
Do you even know what an aphrodisiac is?




Oh this is rich. Mr. I just registered 3 weeks ago. Is going to tell me about established canon.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Do you even know what an aphrodisiac is?

yes

I have multiple sourcebooks that tell me what it is. Do you?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Oh this is rich. Mr. I just registered 3 weeks ago. Is going to tell me about established canon.

Multiple sourcebooks confirm that registration date has no bearing on knowledge of canon and that people who think otherwise are retarded.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
yes

I have multiple sourcebooks that tell me what it is. Do you?

I'm flattered that my posts increase your sexual desire. But no thanks I'm not a pedofile.


Reported for flame bait.

Originally posted by ares834
But he did. So clearly he wasn't "dead to rights".

He escaped the predicament through his own skill and not some PIS moment.

I was saying that he was dead to rights if he couldn't have capitalised on Savage's knee. Learn 2 reed, peasant.

Tactics. I responded to the suggestion that Keno8i stomped them through raw skill. He did not.

That quote does not confirm Obi-Wan's superiority, btw.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Learn 2 reed, peasant.

Multiple sourcebooks have confirmed that you are being reported for flame bait.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was saying that he was dead to rights if he couldn't have capitalised on Savage's knee. Learn 2 reed, peasant.

Tactics. I responded to the suggestion that Keno8i stomped them through raw skill. He did not.

Tactics are a part of raw skill.

No it isn't.

And still, the idea that he is far superior to the Za8rak 8ros is utterly ridiculous.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Tactics are a part of raw skill.

Not in the way Nephthys intended for it to mean. The dichotomy is always presented in Grievous's case: he lacks the dueling skill to defeat, say, Council members, but uses dirty tactics to even the odds.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it isn't.

And still, the idea that he is far superior to the Za8rak 8ros is utterly ridiculous.

Oh my God. Do people on this forum not understand the meaning of hyperbole?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Oh my God. Do people on this forum not understand the meaning of hyperbole?

Reported for flame bait.

Maybe not.

Some people also don't understand sarcasm or that asking for proof is not an attempt to change canon.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Reported for flame bait.

Maybe not.

Some people also don't understand sarcasm or that asking for proof is not an attempt to change canon.

Right except, I don't need to prove something that's been generally accepted on this forum for years.

What is this alien concept you call 'hyperbole'? Is it like your human emotion 'friendship?'

I guess this also means that Ventress is vastly superior to Anakin and O8i-Wan since she was a8le to take out one opponent just like Keno8i did. Which means that Ventress >>> O8i-Wan >>> Savage >>> Ventress >>> O8i-Wan continued ad infinitum.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Right except, I don't need to prove something that's been generally accepted on this forum for years.

What's generally accepted here or elsewhere is irrelevant; that's nothing more than a textbook appeal to the majority, which is a logical fallacy.

As I explained to you, until such a time that evidence for that quote (or any other) is provided, no one has any reason to believe it exists, let alone adhere to it rigidly.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Right except, I don't need to prove something that's been generally accepted on this forum for years.

The problem is it hasn't. Every time some one brings it up they are asked for the quote, but it is never presented. Hell, I once looked for it. But never found it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was saying that he was dead to rights if he couldn't have capitalised on Savage's knee. Learn 2 reed, peasant.

Ah, hard to read with all those numbers...

Originally posted by Nephthys
What is this alien concept you call 'hyperbole'? Is it like your human emotion 'friendship?'

I guess this also means that Ventress is vastly superior to Anakin and O8i-Wan since she was a8le to take out one opponent just like Keno8i did. Which means that Ventress >>> O8i-Wan >>> Savage >>> Ventress >>> O8i-Wan continued ad infinitum.

Dude, it was blatantly stated that Kenobi won. Right after they said that he was an awesome swordsman.

What's your point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
What's your point?

That in raw bladeswork Kenobi>Savage or Maul and quite possibly both of them.

Nah.

O8i-Wan was in a specific mindset in that fight, as Filoni states.

I also personally disagree with Filoni that O8i-Wan 'won' that fight.

Unless you also think that Ventress is >> Anakin and O8i-Wan 8ecause she was 8eating them in their recent fight.

Honestly, Dave doesn't confirm anything other than what I've been saying for yearsmonthsa week or so now: many of the duels in TCW are situational and context-specific, hinging on certain factors like the environment and frame of mind. He says Obi-Wan lost to Maul in "Revenge" in large part because of being relatively unfocused. He also says Obi-Wan wasn't going to lose in "Revival" because of being "in that situation" and in that frame of mind, and attributes "overextension" to Maul and Savage's performance.

He doesn't suggest that Obi-Wan is superior.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I also personally disagree with Filoni that O8i-Wan 'won' that fight.

Yeah, he even says in response to Witwer that "you lost your legs" (which was because of the pirates, not Obi-Wan). Clearly Maul lost the encounter in that his plans tumbled apart, but not the duel.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.

O8i-Wan was in a specific mindset in that fight, as Filoni states.

I also personally disagree with Filoni that O8i-Wan 'won' that fight.

I understand, but Filoni is the director of the show. So you would be wrong.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, he even says in response to Witwer that "you lost your legs" (which was because of the pirates, not Obi-Wan). Clearly Maul lost the encounter in that his plans tumbled apart, but not the duel.

Indeed, he may have hurt Savage, 8ut Maul was still in the game, pissed and O8i-Wan was under a pile of ru88le. If Maul had kept fighting, would he have won? Dunno, I think it was a tie, like Witwer said.

Please. The over extension he was talking about was clearly a political over extension.




Regardless, he only describes Kenobi's state of mind as "focused" and "ready". That doesn't seem to be a unique mindset, especially because he hints their loss in Revenge was partially due to the unexpected appearance of Savage.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Indeed, he may have hurt Savage, 8ut Maul was still in the game, pissed and O8i-Wan was under a pile of ru88le. If Maul had kept fighting, would he have won? Dunno, I think it was a tie, like Witwer said.

You're so handsome when you're right.







Which means you're ugly a lot.

Originally posted by ares834
Please. The over extension he was talking about was clearly a political over extension.

It took me a sec. to gather that you, in fact, are being facetious.

Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, he only describes Kenobi's state of mind as "focused" and "ready". That doesn't seem to be a unique mindset, especially because he hints their loss in Revenge was partially due to the unexpected appearance of Savage.

He also says Obi-Wan becomes "more focused" after Adi's death, which sounds terribly familiar...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Indeed, he may have hurt Savage, 8ut Maul was still in the game, pissed and O8i-Wan was under a pile of ru88le. If Maul had kept fighting, would he have won? Dunno, I think it was a tie, like Witwer said.

He didn't hurt Savage. He had a broken leg and no arm. He wrecked Savage. And no Maul cannot solo focused Kenobi. Filoni blatantly states that it was not a tie. Witwer is just a voice actor he has no say on the way the fights are coordinated. Dude come on you are beating a dead horse. The director of the show said Kenobi won. Considering he made the show he is the ultimate authority on it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And no Maul cannot solo focused Kenobi.

But... he did.

Again, Filoni clearly refers to the idea that Maul lost the battle/encounter (reminding Witwer of Maul's damaged legs, which happened because of the pirates), not specifically the saber clash.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It took me a sec. to gather that you, in fact, are being facetious.

Yeah, added a smilie to make it more apparent.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He also says Obi-Wan becomes "more focused" after Adi's death, which sounds terribly familiar...

Ah, didn't hear that. Still why does it sound familiar? It's certainly not similar to TPM.

Originally posted by ares834
Ah, didn't hear that. Still why does it sound familiar? It's certainly not similar to TPM.

yeah it does

How? In TPM he is giving in to anger and hate. He isn't doing that here at all.

Originally posted by ares834
Please. The over extension he was talking about was clearly a political over extension.




Regardless, he only describes Kenobi's state of mind as "focused" and "ready". That doesn't seem to be a unique mindset, especially because he hints their loss in Revenge was partially due to the unexpected appearance of Savage.

The difference 8etween having and not having those attri8utes is Anakin and Zonakin.

And the fight happened after O8i-Wan knew Savage was there and as I recall Ventress went looking for him specifically so that last part makes no sense.

Originally posted by ares834
How? In TPM he is giving in to anger and hate. He isn't doing that here at all.

What if we compromise and say he's doing what he did in TPM but calmly?

I don't understand the debate...Kenobi is superior to the Zabrak brothers. Focused Kenobi with clarity of mind will come out on top of Maul.

Right..... and Ventress is superior to Anakin and O8i-Wan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The difference 8etween having and not having those attri8utes is Anakin and Zonakin.

Not really. Zonakin isn't merely focused, he is letting go of his restraint and using the dark side as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And the fight happened after O8i-Wan knew Savage was there and as I recall Ventress went looking for him specifically so that last part makes no sense.

It's what Filoni claimed, not I, and it makes some sense. Sure, Kenobi may realize Savage is there, but that doesn't mean he is ready to challenge both of them. Also Filoni was talking about Kenobi, not Ventress.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Right..... and Ventress is superior to Anakin and O8i-Wan.

Because she TKed them? Come on man you can do better than that.

Originally posted by ares834
Not really. Zonakin isn't merely focused, he is letting go of his restraint and using the dark side as well.



It's what Filoni claimed, not I, and it makes some sense. Sure, Kenobi may realize Savage is there, but that doesn't mean he is ready to challenge both of them. Also Filoni was talking about Kenobi, not Ventress.

Read the RotS novel for how u8er Kenobi is when focused.

Then he must have 8een talking a8out where they pwned him in the villiage. 8ecause O8i-Wan never fights Savage in the other fight. :I

'You should have, fear, surprise and intimidation on your side...'
When Maul and Savage attacked they had all 3. That's why they won.
Similar to when Grievous dominated 5 Jedi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because she TKed them? Come on man you can do better than that.

And she 8eat O8i-Wan in 8 second.

8ut yes, she was Force Choking them at the same time it was only when Dooku ordered them to fire on her ship that the Choke was 8roken. Could they have 8roken out? Maybe. She was doing very well against them though. Were I a 8etting man, I wouldn't count her out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Read the RotS novel for how u8er Kenobi is when focused.

I know he's good. But I'm not convinced it's some unique state of mind.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Then he must have 8een talking a8out where they pwned him in the villiage. 8ecause O8i-Wan never fights Savage in the other fight. :I

Perhaps. But he also mentions how Ventress and Kenobi are forced to retreat.