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Both are out to kill the other. Who wins?

Luke. :I

Luke without a doubt. It'd be something of a fight in sabers, but way better force powers.

I think we (and myself, admittedly) have overblown the Zonakin thing a bit. He beat a Dooku who was utterly exhausted, physically and in the Force.

It seems that some people on here are implying that "Zonakin" is Anakin reaching his true potential (albeit temporarily), which I don't necessarily disagree with. That's why I made the post.

Also, I think Luke is usually over-hyped on these boards. Hell yeah he's powerful, but not to the extant that some ppl here make him out to be... especially in CQC (i.e. saber prowess). Remember that I agree that he's a monster. But also that he's overrated.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
It seems that some people on here are implying that "Zonakin" is Anakin reaching his true potential (albeit temporarily), which I don't necessarily disagree with. That's why I made the post.

Also, I think Luke is usually over-hyped on these boards. Hell yeah he's powerful, but not to the extant that some ppl here make him out to be... especially in CQC (i.e. saber prowess). Remember that I agree that he's a monster. But also that he's overrated.
:/
Luke is basically the best there is. I don't actually believe that the way we evaluate characters on KMC (i.e. highest showings/disregarding outliers) allows any other character to defeat him. As Gideon was always quick to point out, the writers have contorted Luke's sense of morality and responsibility around to preserve narrative integrity; that process has caused both massive PIS and power-creep for the mythos in general as well as Luke himself. For example, he shouldn't have struggled against Jacen's Sith mentor, and on the boards that outcome wouldn't have been a defensible position.

While thats true, I do have to question that evaluation when Luke is constantly portrayed to be less than we evaluate him to be. How many times does he have to struggle with a seemingly inferior opponent until we re-evaluate his position?

It's only an "outlier" if it occurs far away from the data (in this case, Luke's usual showings). Since Luke apaprently struggles on semi-regular basis with opponents and situations that he (according to some) shouldn't, then I would argue that these low showings are not outliers, but rather the lower end of his performances. An outlier might include something like him getting his ass kicked by an ewok.

Leia got her ass kicked by an Ewok at one point actually. And not in the time before she was a trained Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
While thats true, I do have to question that evaluation when Luke is constantly portrayed to be less than we evaluate him to be. How many times does he have to struggle with a seemingly inferior opponent until we re-evaluate his position?

On the flip side, how many strong opponents have we seen him face where he doesn't lose? A lot, I think.

He's not utterly unstoppable and plenty of strong fighters won't get blown away by him, but he's at the top of the heap.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
It seems that some people on here are implying that "Zonakin" is Anakin reaching his true potential (albeit temporarily), which I don't necessarily disagree with. That's why I made the post.


I don't agree; I see no reason to believe that Anakin temporarily reached his full potential or even close to it. I believe Anakin just had it in him to defeat Dooku at that time, considering how their previous duels in TCW went down. So I do agree with DP that Anakin would have won that duel regardless of whether Obi Wan was there or not, but it still would have took a little time. Anakin was gradually getting stronger as he was gradually wearing Dooku out with his tremendous force-inhanced strength. It's not as if Anakin could have blitzed Dooku or anything. When Anakin cut Dooku's arms off, Dooku was already weakened from trying to contend with the sheer strength of Anakin's saber blows, which made it that much more easy for Anakin to do his little fancy move on him. Anakin had to slow Dooku down in order to win.

As for the thread, Luke wins quite handily, IMO. He's faster, more skilled, more powerful, has far greater mastery of the force, and is probably just as strong (when inhanced by the force).

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't agree; I see no reason to believe that Anakin temporarily reached his full potential or even close to it. And you're fine with that in the context of the EU? That measly, pitiful showing was Anakin's full potential?


He f*cking sucks then.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And you're fine with that in the context of the EU? That measly, pitiful showing was Anakin's full potential?


He f*cking sucks then.

Sids says that Zonakin wasn't 'Full Potential' Anakin, not "even close to it."

You're barking up the wrong tree

We never saw full potential Anakin. Sidious was saying that.

Get glasses.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think we (and myself, admittedly) have overblown the Zonakin thing a bit. He beat a Dooku who was utterly exhausted, physically and in the Force.

Dooku revitalized his Force reserves after KO'ing Obi-Wan:

Originally posted by Nephthys
We never saw full potential Anakin. Sidious was saying that.

Get glasses. Get looser calf muscles. And trade me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dooku revitalized his Force reserves after KO'ing Obi-Wan:



Yep, the passage you quoted was after Obi-Wan was disposed of.

Dooku was exhausted simply because Anakin's power blows were exhausting him, deflecting Each Blow required more energy than it took to dispose of Obi-Wan.

In the mean time Anakin himself was just getting stronger.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dooku revitalized his Force reserves after KO'ing Obi-Wan:

I was talking about the part where Anakin wins 'simply by deciding to.' At that point Dooku was notably exhausted of his Force reserves.

I have a copy of the book on wordpad and I don't see that part. Dooku's behavior is one of condescending superiority right until Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him, which Anakin interprets as permission to unleash himself. Then he simply overwhelms Dooku.

Sure, it says that Dooku replenished himself after he took out Kenobi, but his reserves got demolished throughout the fight:

'The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.

He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.'

'He was barely able to summon a last surge of dark power before what would have been a disabling impact. The Force cradled him, cushioning his fall and setting him on his feet.'


After all that it would be absurd to act as if Anakin beat a Dooku who was anywhere near his best or even half of it. Unless he somehow recovers all that energy in a 3 second rest.

He replenishes his energy after that bit you just posted, though.

Your quote simply says that the 'weight of his years dropped away.' Not that he completely recovered. It would be retarded to think that he recovered from the above in such a way.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your quote simply says that the 'weight of his years dropped away.' Not that he completely recovered. It would be retarded to think that he recovered from the above in such a way.

I don't see how:



Immediately after replenishing himself, he is comfortable enough to beckon Anakin to continue his charge.

So? Anakin fumbled big time after Dooku used Dun Moch on him. The text notes this especially. Anakin falls apart after her started restraining himself.

So? Not sure how his strikes would hit with less force. The text also notes specifically that once the weight of his years fell away, Dooku was ready to continue the fight and beckoned Anakin down. It's pretty obvious that he'd recovered.

Though for what it's worth, the script's depiction of events is different: Obi-Wan and Dooku get tired as the fight progresses whereas Anakin grows stronger. It says that after Dooku taunts Anakin, Anakin attacks with "new ferociousness" and though the battle "is intense", Anakin disarms Dooku in one last "energized charge." It seems more accurate than the novel's account, too.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't see how:



Immediately after replenishing himself, he is comfortable enough to beckon Anakin to continue his charge.

It's called Dun Moch, a Sith technique.

Either way ROTS Anakin was clearly more powerful than Count Dooku. It was his power that exhausted the Count, not Obi-Wan's.

Then look at their CW fights and it's obvious ROTS Anakin was always going to win.

Adding "pristine clarity" is only going to enhance him more.

Luke most likely; "Zonakin" is overrated.