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What do you think will happen to end Cyclops rampage? Who or what will defeat him at this point since he currently possess the full Phoenix force?

Debate.

Hope will beat him via being a deus ex machina macguffin.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hope will beat him via being a deus ex machina macguffin.

Probably.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hope will beat him via being a deus ex machina macguffin.


That's what I'm thinking as well. Is she on the battle field?

Thor will unleash his Godly power, his Godblast and beat the shit out of the PF with Mjolnir...



or Hulk goes mad and smashes...

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Thor will unleash his Godly power, his Godblast and beat the shit out of the PF with Mjolnir...



or Hulk goes mad and smashes... The only way for Thor to redeem himself.

I hope he keeps the costume, as for his defeat.....

Galactus orders out hotwings

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Thor will unleash his Godly power, his Godblast and beat the shit out of the PF with Mjolnir...


Not likely.

Hope/Wanda/Shou-Lao the Undying

Doom comes in, steals their powers, insults them all, and then leaves.

Doop shows up and saves the day with the ultimate nulifier he keeps on his desk at the school.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maccp00jOy1qgictio1_500.jpg

That worthless species traitor Hope will finally be of some use(somewhat living upto all the hype and build-up that has surrounded her) , and end up beating him and taking the PF from him .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Thor will unleash his Godly power, his Godblast and beat the shit out of the PF with Mjolnir...




One can only hope

Originally posted by carver9
Is she on the battle field?
Who do you it was who yelled out "NOOOOOOOOOOO" when Xavier got downed by Cyke ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That worthless species traitor Hope will finally be of some use(somewhat living upto all the hype and build-up that has surrounded her) , and end up beating him and taking the PF from him .

I think it's humorous that Hope, Beast and Wolverine are getting so much flack on the net for being "species traitors." It's a barrel of laughs. I suppose if you guys lived in Nazi Germany, you would have been all "Well... I don't agree with Hitler's policies... but I am German. Sieg Heil!" Scott is wrong. He's been wrong since day one, and if that wasn't clear when the event started (it was FYI), its painfully obvious now that he has gone Dark Phoenix and killed Xaivier. Why anyone would think that these characters should forgo common sense and ally themselves with Scott merely because they happen to be mutants is asinine.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it's humorous that Hope, Beast and Wolverine are getting so much flack on the net for being "species traitors." It's a barrel of laughs. I suppose if you guys lived in Nazi Germany, you would have been all "Well... I don't agree with Hitler's policies... but I am German. Sieg Heil!" Scott is wrong. He's been wrong since day one, and if that wasn't clear when the event started (it was FYI), its painfully obvious now that he has gone Dark Phoenix and killed Xaivier. Why anyone would think that these characters should forgo common sense and ally themselves with Scott merely because they happen to be mutants is asinine.

sometimes some peeeps value family/loyalty above things like common sense. different strokes for different folks I guess.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it's humorous that Hope, Beast and Wolverine are getting so much flack on the net for being "species traitors." It's a barrel of laughs. I suppose if you guys lived in Nazi Germany, you would have been all "Well... I don't agree with Hitler's policies... but I am German. Sieg Heil!" Scott is wrong. He's been wrong since day one, and if that wasn't clear when the event started (it was FYI), its painfully obvious now that he has gone Dark Phoenix and killed Xaivier. Why anyone would think that these characters should forgo common sense and ally themselves with Scott merely because they happen to be mutants is asinine. Sieg Heil!

How exactly was he wrong ? The Avengers came barraging on his door , demanding that he hand over the girl to them , as if they had better knowledge of or experience with the PF . Hope was the mutants' messiah at that time . She was needed in Utopia .

Also , if you're forgetting , then Tony is the one to blame for this entire mess . If he hadn't gone out of his way and been overzealous with that whole "Phoenixbuster" stuff , this situation wouldn't have escalated to this point .

Edit : The Nazi Germany analogy doesn't fit as well , because in this case its the mutants who are the oppressed(and they always have been in the MU) , and I don't recall Scott orchestrating a genocidal campaign against any minorities .

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
sometimes some peeeps value family/loyalty above things like common sense. different strokes for different folks I guess.

If a family member comes to you and says "I've got this plan, it's never worked in the past so there is 99% it will fail, and that failure could result of that could be the destruction of the earth, or possibly the universe. You in?" probably a good idea to use some common sense instead of saying "Family is family, I'm in."

Maybe Thanos returns and literally gets his foot stuck in Scott's ass....Then we gets Phoenix Thanos!!!!!

Originally posted by society619
Maybe Thanos returns and literally gets his foot stuck in Scott's ass....Then we gets Phoenix Thanos!!!!! Yea...great. ermm

Quan and GS making out with each other is more likely than Thanos getting his hands on that overrated firebird .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How exactly was he wrong ? The Avengers came barraging on his door , demanding that he hand over the girl to them , as if they had better knowledge of or experience with the PF . Hope was the mutants' messiah at that time . She was needed in Utopia .

Also , if you're forgetting , then Tony is the one to blame for this entire mess . If he hadn't gone out of his way and been overzealous with that whole "Phoenixbuster" stuff , this situation wouldn't have escalated to this point .

Edit : The Nazi Germany analogy doesn't fit as well , because in this case its the mutants who are the oppressed(and they always have been in the MU) , and I don't recall Scott orchestrating a genocidal campaign against any minorities .

He was wrong because he was acting like a lunatic cultist who in spite of all his past history with the Phoenix Force decided against all logic and reasoning, that this time the Phoenix Force was coming to usher in a new era of greatness and prosperity for the mutant race. And everyone beside Cyclops and his extraction team was like "Dude... the Phoenix is destroying planets and whipping out entire civilizations on it's way here... maybe we should take some precautions?" and Wolverine was like "Am I the only one who remembers what happened every time the Phoenix has shown up so far?" and Hope was like "I think I should go with Cap..." and Cyclops was like "Heretics! Race traitors! The Phoenix is life!!!!!!!!!! Hope is the messiah, I decided that arbitrarily... but it seems right to me!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAR" and then Cap was like "Thanks for coming with us through your own will, Hope." and then Cyclops was like "We have to get Hope back!" Then bunch of stuff happened, and the Phoenix 5 were created... which immediately lead to them creating a totalitarian regime where every who disagreed with them was imprisoned in limbo by Magic, because they knew better than everyone else and they got crazier and crazier until the event hit the pen ultimate issue.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How exactly was he wrong ? The Avengers came barraging on his door , demanding that he hand over the girl to them , as if they had better knowledge of or experience with the PF . Hope was the mutants' messiah at that time . She was needed in Utopia .

Also , if you're forgetting , then Tony is the one to blame for this entire mess . If he hadn't gone out of his way and been overzealous with that whole "Phoenixbuster" stuff , this situation wouldn't have escalated to this point .

Edit : The Nazi Germany analogy doesn't fit as well , because in this case its the mutants who are the oppressed(and they always have been in the MU) , and I don't recall Scott orchestrating a genocidal campaign against any minorities .
+100000000000000000000000000
And don't forget the Avengers are harboring a genocidal monster, the Harlot B|tch, I mean Scarlet Witch. It's because of her that mutants are nearly extinct.

FU Avengers! I hope Scott stomps CA's head into paste, then incinerates the murdering ****, Wanda.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it's humorous that Hope, Beast and Wolverine are getting so much flack on the net for being "species traitors." It's a barrel of laughs. I suppose if you guys lived in Nazi Germany, you would have been all "Well... I don't agree with Hitler's policies... but I am German. Sieg Heil!" Scott is wrong. He's been wrong since day one, and if that wasn't clear when the event started (it was FYI), its painfully obvious now that he has gone Dark Phoenix and killed Xaivier. Why anyone would think that these characters should forgo common sense and ally themselves with Scott merely because they happen to be mutants is asinine.

This.
Plus the fact that everything was fine until the Avengers showed up with Wanda being the antagonist, persuading Hope to come with her. At the time, Scott wasn't powerful enough to stop her. That was not Hopes fault.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea...great. ermm


You make it seem like its not more exciting than what's already happening?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was wrong because he was acting like a lunatic cultist who in spite of all his past history with the Phoenix Force decided against all logic and reasoning
Uhm what past history are you talking about? You mean the time outside forces, aka the Hellfire Club, drove the PF inside Jean insane? That history? Wasn't that history repeated here again with Tony interfering with the PF's host selection?

Or how about other ancient history, like the PF with Rachel Summers. Not only did she control it just fine, she actually helped saved the world a couple of times too.

So recapping past history, as long as an outside force doesn't drive it or it's host insane, the PF has done NOTHING "evil".

Originally posted by society619
You make it seem like its not more exciting than what's already happening? It's really not.

Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm what past history are you talking about? You mean the time outside forces, aka the Hellfire Club, drove the PF inside Jean insane? That history? Wasn't that history repeated here again with Tony interfering with the PF's host selection?

Or how about other ancient history, like the PF with Rachel Summers. Not only did she control it just fine, she actually helped saved the world a couple of times too.

So recapping past history, as long as an outside force doesn't drive it or it's host insane, the PF has done NOTHING "evil".

Rachel did alright... aside from the time she decided Beyonder was a threat to all of existence... so she should destroy all of existence in order to destroy the Beyonder first. Every time the Phoenix has shown up the host has gone Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was wrong because he was acting like a lunatic cultist who in spite of all his past history with the Phoenix Force decided against all logic and reasoning, that this time the Phoenix Force was coming to usher in a new era of greatness and prosperity for the mutant race. And everyone beside Cyclops and his extraction team was like "Dude... the Phoenix is destroying planets and whipping out entire civilizations on it's way here... maybe we should take some precautions?" and Wolverine was like "Am I the only one who remembers what happened every time the Phoenix has shown up so far?" and Hope was like "I think I should go with Cap..." and Cyclops was like "Heretics! Race traitors! The Phoenix is life!!!!!!!!!! Hope is the messiah, I decided that arbitrarily... but it seems right to me!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAR" and then Cap was like "Thanks for coming with us through your own will, Hope." and then Cyclops was like "We have to get Hope back!" Then bunch of stuff happened, and the Phoenix 5 were created... which immediately lead to them creating a totalitarian regime because they knew better than everyone else and they got crazier and crazier until the event hit the pen ultimate issue.
That's because this time they had a much better understanding(unlike the Avengers who had virtually no clue about what they were up against w/o Wolverine) of what the Phoenix was and is supposed to do . They intended to prepare Hope for the power that she was going to receive and then the Avengers come smashing on his door , basically demanding that he hand her over .

Hope going with Cap , Scott ordering her to be brought back happened AFTER they got the PF . Most of his character assassination(which you're talking about here) happened AFTER they were possessed and ultimately corrupted by the PF.

The same Hope who stood and watched as Thor beat the snot out of one of her "Lights" aka Gabriel ? Those douchebag Avengers wouldn't have bothered to seriously hurt her friends , and she still went ahead with them . Sounds more like the rebellious teen-hormones kicking in trope to me . Also she intended to go with Wanda(the Witch who killed off the entire mutant race and has now become one of the heroes of this sh1tty storyline) , which makes the whole scene even more atrocious/painful from a mutant's POV .

Yeah , they built a supposed totalitarian regime after solving a heck of world issues , and throughout their rule , Scott was the only one who displayed control and reason . All the others were already showing signs of corruption , while Scott finally lost it AFTER Emma's confession of adultery was made .

^
The girl was confused gees
Morals/loyalty/past mutant history/etc. is insignificant to most teenagers.
Someone like Wanda giving words of comfort + the fact that Scott said previously she was free to leave anyway was all this was.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
The girl was confused gees
Morals/loyalty/past mutant history/etc. is insignificant to most teenagers.
Someone like Wanda giving words of comfort + the fact that Scott said previously she was free to leave anyway was all this was.

scott loves emma more than he ever did jean. she really set him off when she told him about namor.

not that this arc has been anything but a cluster****, but still.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
The girl was confused gees
Morals/loyalty/past mutant history/etc. is insignificant to most teenagers.
Someone like Wanda giving words of comfort + the fact that Scott said previously she was free to leave anyway was all this was.
And in her confusion she gave him a lowblow . Anyways , even if you do consider this the rebellious teen hormones kicking in trope(which I already mentioned) , that doesn't excuse the fact that she made the decision after she had already watched one of the "Lights"(Gabriel) having his guts pushed in by Thor(his only good showing throughout this event ) .

I can understand not having loyalty to "bad adults" who want to control your life , but what about her own friends(one of whom she watched getting beaten the sh1t outta him) ?

Originally posted by -Pr-
scott loves emma more than he ever did jean. she really set him off when she told him about namor.

not that this arc has been anything but a cluster****, but still.

I agree that was the boiling point so to speak.

As wise and noble Jake said in the Character Ownage :
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's sad that death is literally the only way to salvage some of the characters which have been butchered character wise because of this event.

And after this atrocity is completed, what's left of the X-Franchise goes to Bendis, which is a fate worse than death.

Hell , even Bendis himself admits about how badly they have phucked up Scott's character :

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/bendis-alonso-brevoort-avengers-vs-x-men-death.html

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And in her confusion she gave him a lowblow . Anyways , even if you do consider this the rebellious teen hormones kicking in trope(which I already mentioned) , that doesn't excuse the fact that she made the decision after she had already watched one of the "Lights"(Gabriel) having his guts pushed in by Thor(his only good showing throughout this event ) .

I can understand not having loyalty to "bad adults" who want to control your life , but what about her own friends(one of whom she watched getting beaten the sh1t outta him) ?

Simple explanation:
If Hope would've stayed (which, the way you put it would seem logical), then there would be no big showdown comming up and the mutant race would have been rejuvenated by now. It's all plot induced.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Hell , even Bendis himself admits about how badly they have phucked up Scott's character :

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/bendis-alonso-brevoort-avengers-vs-x-men-death.html

bendis can **** off. the last time he wrote cyclops he ****ed it up. not again thanks.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Simple explanation:
If Hope would've stayed (which, the way you put it would seem logical), then there would be no big showdown comming up and the mutant race would have been rejuvenated by now. It's all plot induced.
And this explanation makes it seem that at least a considerable portion of the blame for this entire fiasco lies squarely on Hope's shoulders .

Just make this Cyclops a clone.

Comic problem solver.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That's because this time they had a much better understanding(unlike the Avengers who had virtually no clue about what they were up against w/o Wolverine) of what the Phoenix was and is supposed to do . They intended to prepare Hope for the power that she was going to receive and then the Avengers come smashing on his door , basically demanding that he hand her over .

Hope going with Cap , Scott ordering her to be brought back happened AFTER they got the PF . Most of his character assassination(which you're talking about here) happened AFTER they were possessed and ultimately corrupted by the PF.

The same Hope who stood and watched as Thor beat the snot out of one of her "Lights" aka Gabriel ? Those douchebag Avengers wouldn't have bothered to seriously hurt her friends , and she still went ahead with them . Sounds more like the rebellious teen-hormones kicking in trope to me . Also she intended to go with Wanda(the Witch who killed off the entire mutant race and has now become one of the heroes of this sh1tty storyline) , which makes the whole scene even more atrocious/painful from a mutant's POV .

Yeah , they built a supposed totalitarian regime after solving a heck of world issues , and throughout their rule , Scott was the only one who displayed control and reason . All the others were already showing signs of corruption , while Scott finally lost it AFTER Emma's confession of adultery was made .

The Avengers knew enough about the Phoenix to know that it is a dangerous cosmic force that is capable of destroying all life on earth and whipping out all of existence if it's so inclined. Which alone is reason enough to take SERIOUS precautions, even if Nova hadn't shown up and warned them that Phoenix was whipping out planets on its way to earth and Wolverine (who has been the host the Dark Phoenix himself) hadn't shared with them his knowledge / experience.

Cyclops wasn't preparing Hope for anything, he hadn't even told her about the Phoenix, she figured it out on her own and confronted Scott about it in the AvX zero issue. Hope wasn't being trained to adequately control the Phoenix, the X-Men were sitting around Utopia like a bunch of lunatics waiting for Zorp the Purveyor to incinerate them with his molten lava mouth. Scott was merely hoping for the best, and leaving it to blind faith, Cap and the Avengers did far more to prepare Hope for the Phoenix when they took her to Kun'lun then the X-Men ever did. By a huge margin.

Thor dropped Gabriel with a single gut check. Hope herself did far worse to the Lights before she escaped Utopia, plus if she didn't want to see inexperienced teenage mutants getting beat up in the field, well she made the incorrect choice post Schism.

They solved a bunch of the worlds problems sure... the also unceremoniously imprisoned any one who disagreed with them without a trail. Even at his best Phoenix Force Scott was power made fascist who decided it was his way or the high way for anyone who disagreed with him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
bendis can **** off. the last time he wrote cyclops he ****ed it up. not again thanks.
The X-titles going from AVX to Bendis is like jumping out of the frying pan straight into the fire .

Originally posted by Mindset
Just make this Cyclops a clone.

Comic problem solver. Don't ignore me!

Originally posted by Mindset
Just make this Cyclops a clone.

Comic problem solver.

They really should. Or it's a Skrull.

Originally posted by -Pr-
scott loves emma more than he ever did jean. she really set him off when she told him about namor.

not that this arc has been anything but a cluster****, but still.

That issue where Hope says to Scott, "You are going to turn away him because he slept with your wife? If we decided we don't help anyone who has slept with Emma there won't be a man on earth left to help."? Hilarious.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That issue where Hope says to Scott, "You are going to turn away him because he slept with your wife? If we decided we don't help anyone who has slept with Emma there won't be a man on earth left to help."? Hilarious.

Sounds like fanboy writing, tbh.

and Hope's "self entitled little *****" persona is getting old, too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
They really should. Or it's a Skrull.

He is obviously Ultron.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He is obviously Ultron.

Sure, why not.

Time for an M. Night Shyamalan twist.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And this explanation makes it seem that at least a considerable portion of the blame for this entire fiasco lies squarely on Hope's shoulders .

I put most of the blame on Tony. If it wasn't for him, then Hope would be on the way back to Earth as a Phoenix host and the Avengers would be shit out of luck.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Avengers knew enough about the Phoenix to know that it is a dangerous cosmic force that is capable of destroying all life on earth and whipping out all of existence if it's so inclined. Which alone is reason enough to take SERIOUS precautions, even if Nova hadn't shown up and warned them that Phoenix was whipping out planets on its way to earth and Wolverine (who has been the host the Dark Phoenix himself) hadn't shared with them his knowledge / experience.

Cyclops wasn't preparing Hope for anything, he hadn't even told her about the Phoenix, she figured it out on her own and confronted Scott about it in the AvX zero issue. Hope wasn't being trained to adequately control the Phoenix, the X-Men were sitting around Utopia like a bunch of lunatics waiting for Zorp the Purveyor to incinerate them with his molten lava mouth. Scott was merely hoping for the best, and leaving it to blind faith, Cap and the Avengers did far more to prepare Hope for the Phoenix when they took her to Kun'lun then the X-Men ever did. By a huge margin.

Thor dropped Gabriel with a single gut check. Hope herself did far worse to the Lights before she escaped Utopia, plus if she didn't want to see inexperienced teenage mutants getting beat up in the field, well she made the incorrect choice post Schism.

They solved a bunch of the worlds problems sure... the also unceremoniously imprisoned any one who disagreed with them without a trail. Even at his best Phoenix Force Scott was power made fascist who decided it was his way or the high way for anyone who disagreed with him.
The Avengers knowledge wasn't comparable to the X-Men . For them , it was just another big-time Cosmic threat like Galactus . The X-Men had far better knowledge/experience of what the Earth was going up against .

Nope , Scott did intend to train her to handle the power she was going to receive :
http://www.comicsblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/AVX1a.jpg
In fact in the above scan , Emma even mentions that it'll be "upto Hope" . They were reasonable before the Phoenix ended up possessing them(courtesy of Tony Stark) .

That Kun Lun introduction into the PF's history was completely unnecessary , but yeah you have a point here that the Avengers managed to get the opportunity to prepare Hope(unlike the X-Men who had said oppotunity snatched from them) .

Her reaction when Gabriel was dropped clearly indicated otherwise . And she still went ahead with the Avengers . No , wait a minute , in her own words she went "with her(Wanda)" . That was essentially rubbing salt on his(and almost the entirety of the mutant race's) wounds .

Except during the time when he decided to prove that hellfire Club kid wrong(when accused of fascism) and instead of killing him , chose to put him in prison .

Again , most of the supposed injustices they committed , were done so after they got possessed/corrupted by the PF , for which Tony is to be thanked .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And this explanation makes it seem that at least a considerable portion of the blame for this entire fiasco lies squarely on Hope's shoulders .

I put most of the blame on Tony. If it wasn't for him, then Hope would be on the way back to Earth as a Phoenix host and the Avengers would be shit out of luck.

Edit: then it would've been solely up to Wanda to correct it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sounds like fanboy writing, tbh.

and Hope's "self entitled little *****" persona is getting old, too.
This is the scene in question which Srank was referring to :
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/4525/emmaslapshope.th.jpg

Emma's reaction was great .

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Rachel did alright... aside from the time she decided Beyonder was a threat to all of existence... so she should destroy all of existence in order to destroy the Beyonder first. Every time the Phoenix has shown up the host has gone Dark Phoenix.
Uhm that's because the Beyonder was going to do it anyway. She just wanted to make sure that she at least took him out too.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This is the scene in question which Srank was referring to :
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/4525/emmaslapshope.th.jpg

Emma's reaction was great .

Yup. Hope had it coming.

Originally posted by Sundipped
I put most of the blame on Tony. If it wasn't for him, then Hope would be on the way back to Earth as a Phoenix host and the Avengers would be shit out of luck.

Edit: then it would've been solely up to Wanda to correct it.
I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of this clusterphuck of an event , the PF ends up getting revealed as the Life-Force which powered Wanda .

That would be the ultimate insult imo , because the mutants were hoping for salvation at the hands of an entity which was responsible for their demise in the first place .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The Avengers knowledge wasn't comparable to the X-Men . For them , it was just another big-time Cosmic threat like Galactus . The X-Men had far better knowledge/experience of what the Earth was going up against .

Nope , Scott did intend to train her to handle the power she was going to receive :
http://www.comicsblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/AVX1a.jpg
In fact in the above scan , Emma even mentions that it'll be "upto Hope" . They were reasonable before the Phoenix ended possessing them(courtesy of Tony Stark) .

That Kun Lun introduction into the PF's history was completely unnecessary , but yeah you have a point here that the Avengers managed to get the opportunity to prepare Hope(unlike the X-Men who had said oppotunity snatched from them) .

Her reaction when Gabriel was dropped clearly indicated otherwise . And she still went ahead with the Avengers . No , wait a minute , in her own words she went "with her(Wanda)" . That was essentially rubbing salt on his(and almost the entirety of the mutant race's) wounds .

Except during the time when he decided to prove that hellfire Club kid wrong(when accused of fascism) and instead of killing him , chose to put him in prison .

Again , most of the supposed injustices they committed , were done so after they got possessed/corrupted by the PF , for which Tony is to be thanked .

The Avengers knowledge of the Phoenix Force is more than adequate, especially since none of them were blinded by the naive and completely baseless hope that the Phoenix would usher in a Mutant Renaissance. The also have Wanda's vision of the Phoenix Force killing the Avengers. Bishop coming from the future to stop Hope from doing something that will devastate the earth. Plus basic knowledge of the Phoenix Force. Scott was completely misguided from day one. He couldn't divorce his knowledge of the Phoenix with his own personal goals.

Hope's been with the X-Men for a long time and she received no such training. Am I supposed to believe that Cyclops really didn't believe she was the host of the Phoenix Force prior to AvX issue zero? Because Wolverine did. He sussed it out almost instantly, that was the whole reason he was so cold to her, trying not to get attached in case she went Dark Phoenix and he had to kill her. Cyclops was sitting on his ass post Schism and twiddling his fingers. If Iron Man hadn't interfered the Phoenix would have entered Hope only days after AvX 1, she wouldn't have and adequate time to prepare and everyone would be in a much worse situation then they are in now. Every single one of the Phoenix Five was in a better place to control the Phoenix then a hormonal teenager... and they were all corrupted with a fraction of the Phoenix's full power. Scott pinning his hope on the Phoenix and Hope was, a colossal mistake. He should have aligned with Cap day one.

Yeah the Kun'Lun stuff was stupider then the rest of event... which is pretty stupid.

Wanda has some experience with controlling world altering powers, as well hands on results with the consequences that happen when you can't control those powers and they control you. Rachel and Wanda are two people that should have been counseling Hope on this since day one.

Taking children and putting them in an maximum security prison without a trial is still fascism...

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This is the scene in question which Srank was referring to :
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/4525/emmaslapshope.th.jpg

Emma's reaction was great .

Emma likes to get athletic. If you know what I mean.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_macpdvyC9o1rf0wq1o1_500.gif

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of this clusterphuck of an event , the PF ends up getting revealed as the Life-Force which powered Wanda .

That would be the ultimate insult imo , because the mutants were hoping for salvation at the hands of an entity which was responsible for their demise in the first place .

Yeah no thanks to Doom. (Jake don't beat me up).

I'm rusty on HOM but Wanda was a wreck during that time. I wouldn't blame the entity entirely.

Anyway if this is revealed, then Mr. Master will have to no doubt acknowledge it. Wish I could see the look on his face afterwards.

Originally posted by Mindset
Time for an M. Night Shyamalan twist.


Right before Scott destroys the planet, he wakes up right back at the start of issue 1.....either that or Aliens, whatever you prefer

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Avengers knowledge of the Phoenix Force is more than adequate, especially since none of them were blinded by the naive and completely baseless hope that the Phoenix would usher in a Mutant Renaissance. The also have Wanda's vision of the Phoenix Force killing the Avengers. Bishop coming from the future to stop Hope from doing something that will devastate the earth. Plus basic knowledge of the Phoenix Force. Scott was completely misguided from day one. He couldn't divorce his knowledge of the Phoenix with his own personal goals.

Hope's been with the X-Men for a long time and she received no such training. Am I supposed to believe that Cyclops really didn't believe she was the host of the Phoenix Force prior to AvX issue zero? Because Wolverine did. He sussed it out almost instantly, that was the whole reason he was so cold to her, trying not to get attached in case she went Dark Phoenix and he had to kill her. Cyclops was sitting on his ass post Schism and twiddling his fingers. If Iron Man hadn't interfered the Phoenix would have entered Hope only days after AvX 1, she wouldn't have and adequate time to prepare and everyone would be in a much worse situation then they are in now. Every single one of the Phoenix Five was in a better place to control the Phoenix then a hormonal teenager... and they were all corrupted with a fraction of the Phoenix's full power. Scott pinning his hope on the Phoenix and Hope was, a colossal mistake. He should have aligned with Cap day one.

Yeah the Kun'Lun stuff was stupider then the rest of event... which is pretty stupid.

Wanda has some experience with controlling world altering powers, as well hands on results with the consequences that happen when you can't control those powers and they control you. Rachel and Wanda are two people that should have been counseling Hope on this since day one.

Taking children and putting them in an maximum security prison without a trial is still fascism...
It still wasn't anywhere close to the X-Men's . And Wanda is the person who wiped out the mutant race in the first place , so she's a bad ballpark to use here .

Again , Scott intended to train her , in both body and mind , in order to prepare her for the coming of the Phoenix . Where did I say that Scott didn't believe that she was going to be the Phoenix-host ? The Phoenix hadn't arrived there yet , so they still had time to prep her for it , a chance which was snatched from them by the Avengers . You are going overboard with this "Phoenix was coming to burn the world" claim , when as zop showed previously , it has only ever come close to doing so when an evil outside agency(like the Hellfire Club) interfered with it w/o knowing what kind of forces they were tampering with .

Nope , with the exception of Emma(who had already tasted the PF's power once) and possibly Magik(because of her experiences in Limbo/hell probably toughening her up for this sort of thing) , none of them were prepared for the power they received . In fact , giving Colossus the power , on top of Cyttorak's "blessing"(about which he was already extremely flustered) , was enough to make him a ticking bomb/loose cannon imo , which wouldn't have taken long to go off .

Frankly speaking , the Avengers invading Utopia to kidnap Hope in order to supposedly prep her for what was coming was a completely senseless plan as the X-Men(at that point) intended to do something similar . In fact here Hope(before she lost reason) herself is surprised why Cap has come to get her :
http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/9/80/4f31cf1c869d1/detail.jpg

What Wanda did though is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR.....FAR(ad infinitum) worse than what Hope could theoretically do . Rachel supposedly threatened to destroy all existence , you say ? Well , Wanda tore apart the omniverse itself , apart from the mutant genocides/depowering which took place across all those multiple realities . She would be the worst role model to be counselling Hope in this instance , imo .

Those children were more or less Eldritch Abominations , and freaking Emma was justified in what she asked Scott to do in that instance , let alone Scott himself(and he still ended up looking more reasonable and in-control than the rest of his P5-peers) . But even if you do look at this as an atrocity(along with the many others the P5 supposedly committed in AVX and tie-ins) , then as I said before , all the blame for this can be lain squarely on Tony's shoulders .

Originally posted by Sundipped
Anyway if this is revealed, then Mr. Master will have to no doubt acknowledge it. Wish I could see the look on his face afterwards.
If that's the case , then GalacticStorm would have to acknowledge as well the fact that Wanda affected the Omniverse in HOM .

TBH , they'll both be doing a bit of conceding that day .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It still wasn't anywhere close to the X-Men's . And Wanda is the person who wiped out the mutant race in the first place , so she's a bad ballpark to use here .

Again , Scott intended to train her , in both body and mind , in order to prepare her for the coming of the Phoenix . Where did I say that Scott didn't believe that she was going to be the Phoenix-host ? The Phoenix hadn't arrived there yet , so they still had time to prep her for it , a chance which was snatched from them by the Avengers . You are going overboard with this "Phoenix was coming to burn the world" claim , when as zop showed previously , it has only ever come close to doing so when an evil outside agency(like the Hellfire Club) interfered with it w/o knowing what kind of forces they were tampering with .

Nope , with the exception of Emma(who had already tasted the PF's power once) and possibly Magik(because of her experiences in Limbo/hell probably toughening her up for this sort of thing) , none of them were prepared for the power they received . In fact , giving Colossus the power , on top of Cyttorak's "blessing"(about which he was already extremely flustered) , was enough to make him a ticking bomb/loose cannon imo , which wouldn't have taken long to go off .

Frankly speaking , the Avengers invading Utopia to kidnap Hope in order to supposedly prep her for what was coming was a completely senseless plan as the X-Men(at that point) intended to do something similar . In fact here Hope(before she lost reason) herself is surprised why Cap has come to get her :
http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/9/80/4f31cf1c869d1/detail.jpg

What Wanda did though is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR.....FAR(ad infinitum) worse than what Hope could theoretically do . Rachel supposedly threatened to destroy all existence , you say ? Well , Wanda tore apart the omniverse itself , apart from the mutant genocides/depowering which took place across all those multiple realities . She would be the worst role model to be counselling Hope in this instance , imo .

Those children were more or less Eldritch Abominations , and freaking Emma was justified in what she asked Scott to do in that instance , let alone Scott himself(and he still ended up looking more reasonable and in-control than the rest of his P5-peers) . But even if you do look at this as an atrocity(along with the many others the P5 supposedly committed in AVX and tie-ins) , then as I said before , all the blame for this can be lain squarely on Tony's shoulders .

The Avengers had just as much knowledge of the Phoenix as the X-Men do, as they had Wolverine and Beast advising them. Cyclops' had was so far up his ass with his fixation on restoring the Mutant populace he couldn't see the forest through the trees. He was unable to make an impartial decision based on the information he had, if he could have... the event would have played out much differently. Also, Wanda is fine now, her visions of the PF killing the Avengers should be discarded off hand why exactly? It's not at though she has an anti mutant agenda, she is a mutant...

Two days worth of training? Yeah... I'm sure that would have been successful. Surely Scott suspected that there was a strong possibility that Hope was the next host of the Phoenix Force, same as Wolverine... but he took no precautions, and made no effort to prepare her until it was absolutely certain, at which point it was too late.

I never said they were prepared, I said they were better prepared than Hope... which is true. Every single P5 host is an experienced super hero with decades of experience and a ton of will power, each of them had more preparation to host the Phoenix Force through there collective life experience than Hope did... and all five of them went off their rocker with only a small fraction the host power.

Jean's gone Dark Phoenix half a dozen times. The Hellfire Club was only loosely responsible for one such outburst, and Jean is the most completely host of PF, with the highest degree of control. Every time someone has been in possession of the complete power of the Phoenix Force... they have eventually gone crazy with power and snapped. Every time. Scott's crazy Phoenix Cult beliefs are completely insane and unfounded.

Cap came to talk with Cyclops, but Wolverine and Beast had already told him that Scott would not see reason, so he brought the Avengers with him in case things escalated.

Potentially destroying the Multiverse is much worse than turning off the X-Gene, by several orders of magnitude.

The fact that five adult experience superheroes were unable to wield a fraction of the Phoenix Force's power with being corrupted should give you a pretty clear understanding of what would have taken place if an inexperienced hormonal teenager like Hope became the host in the first place. Tony's interference probably saved all their lives. Nothing in the entire history of the X-Men and their dealings with the Phoenix Force should have suggest to Cyclops that the PF was there to solve all their problems. Every time the PF shows up the earth / universe / multiverse almost gets destroyed and the X-Men have to step in at the last moment and save the day.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Avengers had just as much knowledge of the Phoenix as the X-Men do, as they had Wolverine and Beast advising them. Cyclops' had was so far up his ass with his fixation on restoring the Mutant populace he couldn't see the forest through the trees. He was unable to make an impartial decision based on the information he had, if he could have... the event would have played out much differently. Also, Wanda is fine now, her visions of the PF killing the Avengers should be discarded off hand why exactly? It's not at though she has an anti mutant agenda, she is a mutant...

Two days worth of training? Yeah... I'm sure that would have been successful. Surely Scott suspected that there was a strong possibility that Hope was the next host of the Phoenix Force, same as Wolverine... but he took no precautions, and made no effort to prepare her until it was absolutely certain, at which point it was too late.

I never said they were prepared, I said they were better prepared than Hope... which is true. Every single P5 host is an experienced super hero with decades of experience and a ton of will power, each of them had more preparation to host the Phoenix Force through there collective life experience than Hope did... and all five of them went off their rocker with only a small fraction the host power.

Jean's gone Dark Phoenix half a dozen times. The Hellfire Club was only loosely responsible for one such outburst, and Jean is the most completely host of PF, with the highest degree of control. Every time someone has been in possession of the complete power of the Phoenix Force... they have eventually gone crazy with power and snapped. Every time. Scott's crazy Phoenix Cult beliefs are completely insane and unfounded.

Cap came to talk with Cyclops, but Wolverine and Beast had already told him that Scott would not see reason, so he brought the Avengers with him in case things escalated.

Potentially destroying the Multiverse is much worse than turning off the X-Gene, by several orders of magnitude.

The fact that five adult experience superheroes were unable to wield a fraction of the Phoenix Force's power with being corrupted should give you a pretty clear understanding of what would have taken place if an inexperienced hormonal teenager like Hope became the host in the first place. Tony's interference probably saved all their lives. Nothing in the entire history of the X-Men and their dealings with the Phoenix Force should have suggest to Cyclops that the PF was there to solve all their problems. Every time the PF shows up the earth / universe / multiverse almost gets destroyed and the X-Men have to step in at the last moment and save the day.
Yup and that's why they looked all surprised when Scott began to go Dark Phoenix and Beast and Logan were the only ones who understood the true meaning of the event unfolding before them ? As I said before , the X-Men had far better knowledge of and experience w/ the Phoenix Force than the Avengers did .

Two days . Two hours . Two minutes . I don't recall a set time-limit within which the PF would come to Earth and wreak havoc . Anyways , the point is that they intended to prepare her for it , before they got rudely interrupted by the Avengers and this whole mess started . I don't her training under them would have unfolded any different than what it was in Kun Lun .
Also , Scott didn't just suspect , he knew it from what Cable told him in X-Sanction .

We have to agree to disagree here . With the exception of Emma , none of them were prepared for handling the PF's power any better than Hope . In fact , from all the hints that had been dropped throughout previous X-Titles , since she already possessed a (very small) sliver of the PF , she had a slightly better chance of handling the power than Scott , Illyana , Piotr and Namor did .

Half a dozen times ? I only recall two or three incidences in which that persona came to life , and it was generally because of tampering with their mindsets .

Except that was merely a hypothetical scenario and Rachel had the Beyonder's power in addition to the PF's . Btw , since we are going about who was more dangerous , Wanda did FAR MORE than just wipe out the X-Gene , her Chaos Wave also tore apart the omniverse , an incident which no mad/out of control version of the Phoenix has ever perpetuated .

In Uncanny X-Men # 13 , it was revealed by Unit that the Phoenix was coming to Earth to heal the mess which Wanda made with her "No More mutants" spell , and that a similar incident happened billions of years ago on another planet , on which a messianic figure(like Hope) rose and bonded with the Phoenix and together with their 5 acolytes(here the Five Lights) , they fixed the damage that was done to the evolutionary growth of their race .
IN fact , Hope supposedly losing control and going Dark Phoenix(the scenario which you have been stating for so long) wouldn't even have happened had she had the Lights with her :http://s17.postimage.org/4wxygxm5b/011.jpg
I agree that in this case , the dickhead Unit is more to blame than anyone else , however it is unreasonable to assume that , with the way its backstory has been told in AVX , that the Phoenix was coming solely to destroy Earth .

I think it will be a combination of Thor, Hope, Iron Man,Scarlett Witch, and Cable will make his appearance in this arc.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yup. Hope had it coming.

But Hope was right

Originally posted by the Darkone
But Hope was right

Not really. Emma didn't actually sleep around.

Well, not before...

============

Also, Logan is going to stop Cyclops with the power of love. Bromance ftw.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it's humorous that Hope, Beast and Wolverine are getting so much flack on the net for being "species traitors." It's a barrel of laughs. I suppose if you guys lived in Nazi Germany, you would have been all "Well... I don't agree with Hitler's policies... but I am German. Sieg Heil!" Scott is wrong. He's been wrong since day one, and if that wasn't clear when the event started (it was FYI), its painfully obvious now that he has gone Dark Phoenix and killed Xaivier. Why anyone would think that these characters should forgo common sense and ally themselves with Scott merely because they happen to be mutants is asinine.

Probably the most sense Srank has ever made.

Scott clearly jumped the shark before he even obtained the Phoenix Force. How anyone can logically agree with any of the decisions he's made in AvX is beyond me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Probably the most sense Srank has ever made.

Scott clearly jumped the shark before he even obtained the Phoenix Force. How anyone can logically agree with any of the decisions he's made in AvX is beyond me.
Not really. His example is backwards. If anything, it's like the Jews and other Concentration Camp victims getting their hands on weapons and wtfpwing their tormentors/killers.

Last time I checked, no one on the X-men is responsible for the genocide of an entire species. The fxxking Avengers are harboring a Hitler/Stalin/Mao/etc.. in their ranks.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not really. His example is backwards. If anything, it's like the Jews and other Concentration Camp victims getting their hands on weapons and wtfpwing their tormentors/killers.

Last time I checked, no one on the X-men is responsible for the genocide of an entire species. The fxxking Avengers are harboring a Hitler/Stalin/Mao/etc.. in their ranks.
Except for the Jean(and that can be ignored in this case as the dead Jean is no longer a part of the X-Men) who caused the genocide of billions of aliens by consuming the D'Bari Star system , your point is 100% right .

In fact I mentioned it to Srank in our discussion over the last couple of pages , how off his Nazi/Hitler analogy was .

And don't forget , Wanda did FAR FAR.......FAR worse than that .

Originally posted by zopzop
Not really. His example is backwards. If anything, it's like the Jews and other Concentration Camp victims getting their hands on weapons and wtfpwing their tormentors/killers.

Last time I checked, no one on the X-men is responsible for the genocide of an entire species. The fxxking Avengers are harboring a Hitler/Stalin/Mao/etc.. in their ranks.

...so Scott's decision to try and tame the Phoenix Force in the hopes that maybe this time it won't end badly for everyone involved in spite of prior history telling him the EXACT OPPOSITE occurs is a good one?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...so Scott's decision to try and tame the Phoenix Force in the hopes that maybe this time it won't end badly for everyone involved in spite of prior history telling him the EXACT OPPOSITE occurs is a good one?
Considering the fact that how it never ended badly during Rachel's reign as Phoenix , Scott wasn't too far-fetched to have such a dream .

Not only would Phoenix have shifted the balance of power in the mutants'(the persecuted minority in this case) hands , it would(as per Uni't revelations) have fixed the mess that Wanda created .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Considering the fact that how it never ended badly during Rachel's reign as Phoenix , Scott wasn't too far-fetched to have such a dream .

Not only would Phoenix have shifted the balance of power in the mutants'(the persecuted minority in this case) hands , it would(as per Uni't revelations) have fixed the mess that Wanda created .

...

Scott, of all people, should know WTF happens when the Phoenix Force comes around. All he has to do is like at Jean and all her instances of self control and not going apeshit.

Oh, wait.

The idea he's willing to make such a stupid gamble based on "well, maybe THIS time will be different!" is atrocious and highly irresponsible for someone who's supposed to be leading his people. The risks far outweigh the gains and the risks are far more likely to happen than his fantasy land dream.

I can agree with him being desperate - he obviously is if he's willing to chance the Phoenix Force on a hunch - but a good decision? It's anything BUT that.

AvX only makes that abudantly clear when - shocker - the Phoenix hosts go phucking crazy.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...

Scott, of all people, should know WTF happens when the Phoenix Force comes around. All he has to do is like at Jean and all her instances of self control and not going apeshit.

Oh, wait.

The idea he's willing to make such a stupid gamble based on "well, maybe THIS time will be different!" is atrocious and highly irresponsible for someone who's supposed to be leading his people. The risks far outweigh the gains and the risks are far more likely to happen than his fantasy land dream.

I can agree with him being desperate - he obviously is if he's willing to chance the Phoenix Force on a hunch - but a good decision? It's anything BUT that.

AvX only makes that abudantly clear when - shocker - the Phoenix hosts go phucking crazy.
Yeah , and that is completely discounting for all those years when Rachel had the Phoenix , and she never lost control , never went mad like Jean did .

A stupid gamble only if you do the above , plus ignore what the purpose of the Phoenix entity itself has been(or at least was supposed to be before it ended up in the wrong hosts) according to this event .

So intending to prepare Hope for becoming the Phoenix(which *surprise*surprise* the Avengers did as well) is a very bad decision ? I guess making a piece of equipment to kill an entity which sustains all the stars in Marvel Universe , is a horrendous decision on the Avengers' part then .

Yup , Phoenix hosts who were never meant to be . And guess who is to blame for that fiasco ? Tony "hey look at me , I made a cool phoenix buster armor" Stark .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Yeah , and that is completely discounting for all those years when Rachel had the Phoenix , and she never lost control , never went mad like Jean did .

A stupid gamble only if you do the above , plus ignore what the purpose of the Phoenix entity itself has been(or at least was supposed to be before it ended up in the wrong hosts) according to this event .

So intending to prepare Hope for becoming the Phoenix(which *surprise*surprise* the Avengers did as well) is a very bad decision ? I guess making a piece of equipment to kill an entity which sustains all the stars in Marvel Universe , is a horrendous decision on the Avengers' part then .

Yup , Phoenix hosts who were never meant to be . And guess who is to blame for that fiasco ? Tony "hey look at me , I made a cool phoenix buster armor" Stark .

So, Scott is the voice of reason? The same guy who just killed Xavier, by all means not a perfect man, in cold blood and then blamed the Avengers for "making him do it"?

I mean, shit, Magneto, Mutant Terrorist Supreme, is telling Scott he's going off the deep end and Scott is basically ignoring it in the hopes he'll fix everything when he's doing anything but.

I don't honestly see how you can read AvX and come to the conclusion that Scott's been wise in this affair, let alone "right" in the decisions he's made. Even the writers are saying "yeah, Scott's been corrupted". He's become the new Dark Phoenix for crying out loud, the worse case scenario that everyone had been worrying about. And it happened.

There's not much to debate on that front.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, Scott is the voice of reason? The same guy who just killed Xavier, by all means not a perfect man, in cold blood and then blamed the Avengers for "making him do it"?

I mean, shit, Magneto, Mutant Terrorist Supreme, is telling Scott he's going off the deep end and Scott is basically ignoring it in the hopes he'll fix everything when he's doing anything but.

I don't honestly see how you can read AvX and come to the conclusion that Scott's been wise in this affair, let alone "right" in the decisions he's made. Even the writers are saying "yeah, Scott's been corrupted". He's become the new Dark Phoenix for crying out loud, the worse case scenario that everyone had been worrying about. And it happened.

There's not much to debate on that front.
That incident happened AFTER he got corrupted by the PF . You're going off-track now , since I have never disputed the fact that Scott and the rest of the P5 started to go batsh1t crazy after they got possessed by the Phoenix . Which was expected , since they were not its destined hosts .
Although the fact that he appeared to be the only voice of reason even as his comrades began to go nuts , is something to ponder about .

Again , you're referring to the instance when he turned into Dark Phoenix , which is basically after the P5 transformation incident , and the person to thank for that mess is Tony .

This fiasco is as much(if not more) of the Avengers' fault , as it is the X-Men's(and I honestly don't see how it can even be called their fault at all , since technically speaking they are the victims ultimately) .

I agree that on this front there is not much to debate at all .

Originally posted by society619
Maybe Thanos returns and literally gets his foot stuck in Scott's ass....Then we gets Phoenix Thanos!!!!!

sounds like the plot for human centipede 3

If Scott would have listened to reason and worked alongside Cap instead of being an idiot and complaing that Cap never did enough to help mutants and generally acting butthurt on behalf of mutants everywhere (who didn't want this stupid war), this event would have been resolved in a single issue.

But that would be boring, obviously.

Still, it's very clear that Scott is the primary one to blame for all this. Abundantly so.

He should have just killed Cap.

And show his true colors as a god damn terrorist.

Namor was right there, I would have just had him put Cap back down at the bottom of the ocean.

Yep , and if Cap hadn't come knocking on his door , to get Hope , and subsequently ignited the spark which turned into this raging forest fire , then this event wouldn't have taken place either .

however with all these plot-based stipulations aside , I still don't see how any of this is Scott's fault . At least Pre-Phoenix Scott's fault .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And show his true colors as a god damn terrorist. Meh.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...so Scott's decision to try and tame the Phoenix Force in the hopes that maybe this time it won't end badly for everyone involved in spite of prior history telling him the EXACT OPPOSITE occurs is a good one?
What the heck are you talking about? There's nothing to tame!

Jean was just FINE with the PF until the Hellfire Club drove her insane (people seem to be forgetting that it was the Hellfire Club and their meddling that resulted in the whole "Dark Phoenix" transformation). Rachel Summers had the PF for YEARS and nothing went wrong. Hope would have likewise been just fine with it, except the Avengers acted like little know-it-all a$$holes and interfered in it's Host selection and caused it be fractured and sent to five people IT DID NOT CHOOSE to be it's Hosts.

Sans outside interference, the PF has done nothing wrong prior to this AvX event. Scott was in the right!

Meanwhile, Wanda Maximoff Hitler, you know, the person that actually caused an entire species to go all but EXTINCT, is sitting pretty with the Avengers. Why isn't that b|tch in jail?

120 billion grizzly bears turn up to save the day.