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Can Stranges sorcery be offset by a blend of high tech and magic?

Dooms beats the hell out of Strange

Current Strange would definitely lose.

Doom has done decent enough against Classic Strange as well, and while Strange has steadily been nerfed through the years, Doom, conversely, has only been getting more formidable.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310873_d1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310874_d2.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310875_d3.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310877_d4.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310879_d5.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310884_d7.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310886_d8.jpg


There's also that to consider as well as, according to the Children's Crusade, Doom's magic is superior to Strange's own. And Strange himself has conceded Doom's knowledge of the dark arts exceeds his own.

Loving Marek's face in the last scan...

Silver Sable is badass

Lets be honest: Doom treated Strange like he was a weak feeb in the scene Jake posted. And *technically* that scene took place in the classic era, which means Strange was *technically* at his magical peak, while Doom was *technically* at his magical low. Since then, Doom has improved astronomically as a sorcerer-- so *technically* Doom should be able to tool Strange pretty casually with his current powerset.

...And there's also this:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/13279915_Avengers_CC_07_0017.jpg
Doom's magic>Wanda's AND Strange's.

Is possible to numerate the confirmed upgrades he received ?

The Morgana Le fay is one.

Doctor Strange tutoring him
Hazareth Three
Marquis of Death (though that one's debatable)

Classic Strange schools him

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Is possible to numerate the confirmed upgrades he received ?

The Morgana Le fay is one. marquis of death run. He spent quite some time as the Marquis apprentice and while Marquis may not have been magic based he sure as hell taught doom quite a bit of applicable knowledge.

Maybe it's just me but I actually find it very hard getting a definitive lock on just how compare, yes you can find scans that says Doom is stronger but the door certainly also swings the other way.

Are there scans of Strange being stronger than Doom?

Its VERY VERY rare to find Doom admitting anyone is his equal, let alone superior. It happens, but rarely.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Are there scans of Strange being stronger than Doom?

Its VERY VERY rare to find Doom admitting anyone is his equal, let alone superior. It happens, but rarely.

I don't recall the exact situation but I recall Doom saying that Strange clearly bested him in sorcery and he had to close that advantage by technological might. There is also the incident when they fought together in "Dr. Strange/Dr. Doom: Triumph and Torment" and Doom iirc lost.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Are there scans of Strange being stronger than Doom?

Its VERY VERY rare to find Doom admitting anyone is his equal, let alone superior. It happens, but rarely.

Just because he won't admit someone is superior doesn't mean that they aren't.

Classic strange wins.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't recall the exact situation but I recall Doom saying that Strange clearly bested him in sorcery and he had to close that advantage by technological might. There is also the incident when they fought together in "Dr. Strange/Dr. Doom: Triumph and Torment" and Doom iirc lost.

Which was before Doom's magical prowess clearly increased to the level it is now.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Classic Strange schools him

It seems Strange forgot more about magic then Doom will ever know...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which was before Doom's magical prowess clearly increased to the level it is now.

How much have Dooms level increased from then till now? Or is it simply more the fact that Doctor Strange own level of power have decreased?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Current Strange would definitely lose.

Doom has done decent enough against Classic Strange as well, and while Strange has steadily been nerfed through the years, Doom, conversely, has only been getting more formidable.



There's also that to consider as well as, according to the Children's Crusade, Doom's magic is superior to Strange's own. And Strange himself has conceded Doom's knowledge of the dark arts exceeds his own.

Don't get too caught up in those scans because Doc spanked Doom with the Crimson bands in Triumph & Torment. In the "classic era".

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282887_DoomSorcererSupreme04.jpg

BTW I'd like to see scans of Strange stating Dooms knowledge of the dark arts surpasses his. That statement holds no weight anyway because Doom has yet to demonstrate (on panel) the amount of power utilizing it like Strange has. Doc has temporarily destroyed a demon of the highest order (Shuma Gorath) with it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lets be honest: Doom treated Strange like he was a weak feeb in the scene Jake posted. And *technically* that scene took place in the classic era, which means Strange was *technically* at his magical peak, while Doom was *technically* at his magical low. Since then, Doom has improved astronomically as a sorcerer-- so *technically* Doom should be able to tool Strange pretty casually with his current powerset.

...And there's also this:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/13279915_Avengers_CC_07_0017.jpg
Doom's magic>Wanda's AND Strange's.

Doom was schooled by Doc as well so there's that.
That scan has no credibility. Why? Because in the same arc, Magneto states that Wanda is superior to Doom

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282888_1630261-1511975_acc_3_legion_cps_008_super.jpg

Power levels were all over the place. Doc curbstomped Wanda in Avengers Disassembled. If we take these fabricated character statements (which I won't) to coincide with what's depicted on panel, then it would be Strange>>Doom>>Wanda.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Classic Strange schools him

In every way shape form and fashion as far as sorcery. Doom even flat out admits it. Even when amping his armor he still falls short.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282884_DoomSorcery16TriumphTorment1.jpg

If it wasn't for Docs shield, Doom would've been toast when they fought Mephisto. He freed Cynthia Von Dooms soul at the same time while it was being erected. Doom was basically just a bystander.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282885_mignolaDOOM.jpg

Proof (from Dooms own mouth) that Classic Strange is better versed in sorcery than him

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282886_DRSTR57_DrDoom.jpg

To sum it up...Classic Strange was leagues beyond Doom. One failed attempt with the Crimson bands doesn't change that.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
It seems Strange forgot more about magic then Doom will ever know... Based on everything that's been posted, that doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by Utrigita
How much have Dooms level increased from then till now? Or is it simply more the fact that Doctor Strange own level of power have decreased? No, it's the fact that his powers have been shown to have increased, characters have commented on their increase, and we have incidents of Doom being taught magic to increase their power.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, it's the fact that his powers have been shown to have increased, characters have commented on their increase, and we have incidents of Doom being taught magic to increase their power.

This.

It's been far from a one time sort of thing or just talk; Doom's increasing prowess with sorcery has been documented since the Unthinkable F4. And Doom managed to remove Strange out of the way back then, as well.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Don't get too caught up in those scans because Doc spanked Doom with the Crimson bands in Triumph & Torment. In the "classic era".

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282887_DoomSorcererSupreme04.jpg

BTW I'd like to see scans of Strange stating Dooms knowledge of the dark arts surpasses his. That statement holds no weight anyway because Doom has yet to demonstrate (on panel) the amount of power utilizing it like Strange has. Doc has temporarily destroyed a demon of the highest order (Shuma Gorath) with it.



Doom was schooled by Doc as well so there's that.
That scan has no credibility. Why? Because in the same arc, Magneto states that Wanda is superior to Doom

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282888_1630261-1511975_acc_3_legion_cps_008_super.jpg

Power levels were all over the place. Doc curbstomped Wanda in Avengers Disassembled. If we take these fabricated character statements (which I won't) to coincide with what's depicted on panel, then it would be Strange>>Doom>>Wanda.



In every way shape form and fashion as far as sorcery. Doom even flat out admits it. Even when amping his armor he still falls short.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282884_DoomSorcery16TriumphTorment1.jpg

If it wasn't for Docs shield, Doom would've been toast when they fought Mephisto. He freed Cynthia Von Dooms soul at the same time while it was being erected. Doom was basically just a bystander.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282885_mignolaDOOM.jpg

Proof (from Dooms own mouth) that Classic Strange is better versed in sorcery than him

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282886_DRSTR57_DrDoom.jpg

To sum it up...Classic Strange was leagues beyond Doom. One failed attempt with the Crimson bands doesn't change that.

Cool scans, but again, that's Doom as of then, which is completely a different animal as to current Doom.

And Strange admitted Doom's superiority in New Avengers during the hunt for the new Sorcerer Supreme, claiming that if Doom somehow was found worthy of the mantle, they'd all be phucked something fierce.

In any case, it's pretty clear to anyone who's followed Doom for the past decade or even half of the decade, that his power level has increased substantially.

Classic Strange had feats with his sorcery that were beyond anything Doom has ever done with his magic. No statement or hyperbole can change that me thinks.

Who cares?

Classic Strange isn't even in this fight.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Classic Strange had feats with his sorcery that were beyond anything Doom has ever done with his magic. No statement or hyperbole can change that me thinks.

Okay. Doesn't change the fact that Doom's magic has increased significantly and is allowed the totality of his powerset (ie. his tech and armor) instead of just magic. And we have several instances where, in a direct comparison of the two, Doom is shown or stated to be > Strange.

Personally, I think in a random encounter, current Doom could best Strange before his nerfing.

There's absolutely no question that current Strange would get his shit kicked in by current Doom.

Originally posted by Sundipped
That scan has no credibility. Why? Because in the same arc, Magneto states that Wanda is superior to Doom

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/13282888_1630261-1511975_acc_3_legion_cps_008_super.jpg

Power levels were all over the place. Doc curbstomped Wanda in Avengers Disassembled. If we take these fabricated character statements (which I won't) to coincide with what's depicted on panel, then it would be Strange>>Doom>>Wanda. Magneto said that Wanda>Doom. What in the world does that have to do with Strange being > Doom?

You're making no sense.

Doc Strange didn't "curbstomp" Wanda in Avengers Disassembled, either.

Originally posted by Galan007
Magneto said that Wanda>Doom. What in the world does that have to do with Strange being > Doom?

You're making no sense. Anyway, how does Magneto's statement about Wanda's power hold more weight than Wanda's assessment of her own power?

Originally posted by Mindset
Anyway, how does Magneto's statement about Wanda's power hold more weight than Wanda's assessment of her own power?

It doesn't.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doc Strange didn't "curbstomp" Wanda in Avengers Disassembled, either. Not to mention that the Disassembled storyline took place 7-8 years ago... And in that time Doom has improved by leaps and bounds.

Originally posted by Mindset
Anyway, how does Magneto's statement about Wanda's power hold more weight than Wanda's assessment of her own power? It doesn't. I was just confused by the point he was trying to make...

Btw, is Speed faster than Quicksilver?

Plus, while Doom's sorcery definitely has improved significantly, per this thread, this isn't merely Doom's magic vs. Strange's, but Doom's tech and his magic. Hell, half the time, they're so closely interwoven, it's hard to separate them, anyway.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cool scans, but again, that's Doom as of then, which is completely a different animal as to current Doom.

And Strange admitted Doom's superiority in New Avengers during the hunt for the new Sorcerer Supreme, claiming that if Doom somehow was found worthy of the mantle, they'd all be phucked something fierce.

In any case, it's pretty clear to anyone who's followed Doom for the past decade or even half of the decade, that his power level has increased substantially.

Of course. I was looking for the dark arts scans.
No ones debating if current Strange is at the same level. Whenever I see Strange in a thread I assume it's the classic version. Debating the current version imo is a waste of time and pointless.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doc Strange didn't "curbstomp" Wanda in Avengers Disassembled, either.

Don't think so? Post the fight scans then.

I thought Strange wasn't even knowledgeable on dark arts since he doesn't use them?

Originally posted by Galan007
Magneto said that Wanda>Doom. What in the world does that have to do with Strange being > Doom?

You're making no sense.

Yeah so how can Wanda say Doom is the most powerful when Erik states that it's not him but Wanda is?

Character statements = bullshit. That was my point.

Originally posted by Mindset
I thought Strange wasn't even knowledgeable on dark arts since he doesn't use them?

Doesn't mean he knows nothing about it because he doesn't practice it. Last time he used it was vs Shuma iirc.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Yeah so how can Wanda say Doom is the most powerful when Erik states that it's not him but Wanda is?

Character statements = bullshit. That was my point.

Because Wanda knows her power levels more so than Magneto would? Especially since she's the one who's actively seeking people to help her?

Pretty sure, given her situation, her statements would hold more weight than her father's.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Doesn't mean he knows nothing about it because he doesn't practice it. Last time he used it was vs Shuma iirc. I'll have to find the scan, but I believe he commented on his lack of knowledge, or only having a minimal amount in the dark arts.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because Wanda knows her power levels more so than Magneto would? Especially since she's the one who's actively seeking people to help her?

Pretty sure, given her situation, her statements would hold more weight than her father's.

The thing is, how can she accurately gauge Stranges power?

Originally posted by Sundipped
The thing is, how can she accurately gauge Stranges power? Well, she can certainly gauge her own powers better than Magneto can.

Originally posted by Mindset
I thought Strange wasn't even knowledgeable on dark arts since he doesn't use them? He knows of the dark arts, though I'm not sure how extensive his knowledge is in that area. However, it was his use of the dark arts that got him demoted from Sorcerer Supreme, when he used said magics to unite with Zom, iirc.

Exactly what caused Strange's magic level to lessen?

Using Dark Magic was against what the Sorcerer Supreme stood for, and he was no longer worthy of the powers.

Tech+Magic=Dr Strange never doing well against this combo.Just ask Dilby

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange1.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange2.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange3.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange4.jpg

Dr Strange getting his ass handed because of Magic+Tech

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DrStrangeDefeated.jpg

I think I made my case here

Originally posted by Sundipped
The thing is, how can she accurately gauge Stranges power? Character statements can be suspect. But, Children's Crusade has feats also. You have to remember, Dr. Strange completely failed to inhibit Wanda's increased power even with Xavier's help in the leadup to House of M. Doom just ended up stealing that sh1t for himself. Originally posted by lawest9
Exactly what caused Strange's magic level to lessen? Use of dark magic, loss of his own confidence due to recent failures, he's on the outs with Agamotto, etc. Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Is possible to numerate the confirmed upgrades he received ?

The Morgana Le fay is one. Here are some of the more tangible upgrades at least:

Cagliostro taught him everything he knew in Iron Man #149.

Dr. Strange tutored him for days in Dr. Strange/Dr. Doom: Triumph and Torment. He also recorded numerous magical stances and incantations of other magicians during the battle for the title of Sorcerer Supreme.

He stole all of Ceranda's magical power in Thor Annual 1999 who, together with the Enchanters, would go on to mess around with Thor and Mjolnir.

It was revealed that he was tutored by Radu in Before the Fantastic Four: Reed Richards #2.

He honed his abilities of using the Dreamtime in Fantastic Four vol.3 #30.

It was shown that he stole magical tomes from another dimension to increase his arcane power in Iron Man: Legacy of Doom #2.

Like you said, he learned from Morgan le Fay in Mighty Avengers #9-11.

It was revealed that he stole and possessed the Book of Vishanti for a while in Doctor Voodoo #1-5.

It was revealed that he was taught by the Marquis of Death in Fantastic Four #562-569. It was also revealed that he spent years under the Marquis' unknowing tutelage as he masqueraded as his new apprentice. Which he only did after spending countless years upgrading his own sorcery in order to be able to disguise himself from the Marquis' senses.


Most of the time, he just shows up and uses new spells, reveals new proficiencies in a particular art, etc. And then sometimes he ends up expanding his knowledge. For example, he studied the Destroyer armor and dissected Asgardians in Thor #600-605. That led to him being able to strip and utilize the Odinforce.

Is this true?



This mean when he focus on science or tech he lost some of sorcery power ? Or vice-versa ?

Originally posted by ODG

But, Children's Crusade has feats also.

You have to remember,
Dr. Strange completely failed to inhibit Wanda's increased power
even with Xavier's help in the leadup to House of M.

Doom just ended up stealing that sh1t for himself.
Yea but ODG, Wanda was far more powerful even in those precursors,
than her portrayal in CC.

I wouldn't stamp Doom with affecting the same level of power
Strange/Xavier failed to affect.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea but ODG, Wanda was far more powerful even in those precursors,
than her portrayal in CC.

I wouldn't stamp Doom with affecting the same level of power
Strange/Xavier failed to affect. As Wanda was preparing to undo her "No More Mutants" feat in Children's Crusade -- which was her biggest feat ever -- and there was no hint that she wouldn't have been able to do so, I don't see where you came to this conclusion. Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Is this true?



This mean when he focus on science or tech he lost some of sorcery power ? Or vice-versa ? Have no idea where this idea is from.

Originally posted by ODG

As Wanda was preparing to undo her "No More Mutants" feat in
Children's Crusade -- which was her biggest feat ever -- and
there was no hint that she wouldn't have been able to do so, I don't
see where you came to this conclusion.
I was under the impression from the rest of the series, (including that scene)
she was de-powered in comparison with Pre & HOM.
(or the writers were ignoring her potential during CC)

If I recall correctly,
she was only going to affect individual mutants across realities,
incredible feat nonetheless but not nearly as her truly "biggest feat ever"
which was rebuilding the Omniverse entire to its original state
minus the concentrated mutants she specified across Timelines.
She did that with the utterance of "no more mutants."

Then again, you pointed out Strange/Xavier being unable during the "pre" showing,
which while powerful, she also wasn't yet as uber as in HOM.

So you may be right after all.

But she was definitely more powerful in HOM than in CC.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I was under the impression from the rest of the series, (including that scene)
she was de-powered in comparison with Pre & HOM.
(or the writers were ignoring her potential during CC)

If I recall correctly,
she was only going to affect individual mutants across realities,
incredible feat nonetheless but not nearly as her truly "biggest feat ever"
which was rebuilding the Omniverse entire to its original state
minus the concentrated mutants she specified across Timelines.
She did that with the utterance of "no more mutants."

Then again, you pointed out Strange/Xavier being unable during the "pre" showing,
which while powerful, she also wasn't yet as uber as in HOM.

So you may be right after all.

But she was definitely more powerful in HOM than in CC. Wanda was replicating the exact same attack from Avengers Disassembled on Avengers Mansion when she and the Young Avengers time-traveled. So in Children's Crusade, she quite literally matched what she did pre-House of M with summoned Ultrons and Kree and everything.

Then she was going to undo the No More Mutants catastrophe, with More Mutants. And she was, apparently, well on her way until Doom went and yoinked the power of the Lifeforce from her, the very power she used to do No More Mutants. I see no reason to think of her as being weaker when they were dealing with the same exact power source and same exact events.

Originally posted by ODG

Wanda was replicating the exact same attack from Avengers
Disassembled on Avengers Mansion when she and the Young
Avengers time-traveled. So in Children's Crusade, she quite
literally matched what she did pre-House of M with summoned
Ultrons and Kree and everything.
Right. I agreed in my second post.
Originally posted by ODG

Then she was going to undo the No More Mutants catastrophe, with
More Mutants. And she was, apparently, well on her way until Doom
went and yoinked the power of the Lifeforce from her, the very power
she used to do No More Mutants. I see no reason to think of her as
being weaker when they were dealing with the same exact power
source and same exact events.
I was going to edit my post when I remembered Doom shining in the issue,
but you beat me to it.

The retcon which monkey wrenched the Life-Force into HOM's past history. You win.

Although, during HOM, the power was portrayed, while in CC,
I haven't seen anything that comes close.
I also understand that doesn't change the facts,
so I agree with you.

^ K. Of course, I do grant you: I can't definitively prove she was just as powerful as she was in House of M, because she didn't actually undo the damage. It's essentially a non-feat but the story didn't strike me as depowering her since she was preparing to tackle the very catastrophe she unleashed.

Originally posted by ODG
Character statements can be suspect. But, Children's Crusade has feats also. You have to remember, Dr. Strange completely failed to inhibit Wanda's increased power even with Xavier's help in the leadup to House of M. Doom just ended up stealing that sh1t for himself.

There's a difference though. In CC, she willingly allowed Doom access to the power under the pretense it was going to bring back the mutant population. Xavier and Strange approached her from a mental standpoint but encountered resistance due to Magnetos tampering. Earlier Strange stopped a pissed Wanda and he wasn't even trying to hurt her.

Originally posted by Igniz
Tech+Magic=Dr Strange never doing well against this combo.Just ask Dilby

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange1.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange2.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange3.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DilbysMagicRobotVsDrStrange4.jpg

Dr Strange getting his ass handed because of Magic+Tech

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DrStrangeDefeated.jpg

I think I made my case here

You made no case. In fact it was a epic fail.
Dilby was empowered by Dormammu who in turn created the robot.
Dormammu>>>>>Strange as far as raw power, including power he can bestow. How convienient you left that out. sly

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13287430_DormammuBestowingPowersToDilby.jpg

Originally posted by Sundipped

Earlier Strange stopped a pissed Wanda and he wasn't even trying to hurt her.

To be fair, all Strange did was use the Eye of Aggy to show/make Wanda understand what she had just done (aside from killing several Avengers)

This tormented her so much she KO'd from the regret.

Originally posted by Sundipped
There's a difference though. In CC, she willingly allowed Doom access to the power under the pretense it was going to bring back the mutant population. Xavier and Strange approached her from a mental standpoint but encountered resistance due to Magnetos tampering. Earlier Strange stopped a pissed Wanda and he wasn't even trying to hurt her. Actually, Wanda used Wiccan specifically to safeguard against that very possibility. And if you think Wanda didn't want to be cured/healed when being treated by Xavier and Strange, you're fooling yourself. This allusion to Magneto's tampering is irrelevant.

Originally posted by ODG
Actually, Wanda used Wiccan specifically to safeguard against that very possibility. And if you think Wanda didn't want to be cured/healed when being treated by Xavier and Strange, you're fooling yourself. This allusion to Magneto's tampering is irrelevant.

What possibility? Wiccan didn't even know his powers were still functional. Once he was reminded by Doom, he promptly joined Doom and Wanda to open the portal.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293379_Scan10213.jpg

I never said Wanda did't want to be helped. Don't know where that assumptio came from. ermm

And Magneto's tampering was relevant. Xavier stated so on panel.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293503_1824490-excalibur_014__2005__page_21_super.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
To be fair, all Strange did was use the Eye of Aggy to show/make Wanda understand what she had just done (aside from killing several Avengers)

This tormented her so much she KO'd from the regret.

I'll give you that.
He had to use the Eye to keep from using brute mystical force. He held back as long as he could.

Originally posted by Sundipped
You made no case. In fact it was a epic fail.
Dilby was empowered by Dormammu who in turn created the robot.
Dormammu>>>>>Strange as far as raw power, including power he can bestow. How convienient you left that out. sly

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13287430_DormammuBestowingPowersToDilby.jpg



Nice one.The scan also showed Dr Doom is in league with Dormammu and Dilby is from Latyveria.It just shows Tech+Magic=Dr Strange getting beaten by a Novice Practitioner of Magic(Dilby).And even if you say Dilby's powers comes from Dormammu, you have to agree that Dilby is either gifted on learning magic from Dormammu or Dormammu is just darn good at teaching magic.Because even if Dilby possess that much power, his inexperience on magic would still come to play.But sadly, Dilby is also a kid of science.Dilby did what an empowered Baron Mordo failed to do BTW

So Doom using Magic+Tech=A Mystical Doombot beating Dr Strange(Dilby style)

^
It was all Dormammu. No matter how much technological savy was involved, it was the amp what powered and drove the robot. Strange had mystic bolts pass right through it and the Crimson bands failed. How else can you explain it?

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
It was all Dormammu. No matter how much technological savy was involved, it was the amp what powered and drove the robot. Strange had mystic bolts pass right through it and the Crimson bands failed. How else can you explain it?

And the there was a Baron Mordo powered by Dormammu who failed to beat Dr Strange Mordo should've done what Dilby did Make a robot.And then empower it to beat Dr Strange

And a lot of people here have pointed out that Doom's sorcery has improved.So Magic+Tech=Strange loses and Doom wins

Originally posted by Sundipped
What possibility? Wiccan didn't even know his powers were still functional. Once he was reminded by Doom, he promptly joined Doom and Wanda to open the portal.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293379_Scan10213.jpg

I never said Wanda did't want to be helped. Don't know where that assumptio came from. ermm

And Magneto's tampering was relevant. Xavier stated so on panel.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293503_1824490-excalibur_014__2005__page_21_super.jpg Reread the first page you just posted. Wanda says she's going to use Wiccan's powers as a safeguard against Doom using her power. Wiccan denies he can help since he believes his powers to be taken, to which Doom just restores his ability to use them. So now Wiccan, with his powers restored, isn't going to use his powers as a safeguard as Wanda asked him to? He's just holding hands for the sake of holding hands?

The allusion to Magneto's manipulation is, once again, completely irrelevant when stacked up against the clear obstacle Wiccan represented. Magneto, Xavier and Dr. Strange all wanted to help Wanda. If you think Magneto single handedly prevented Xavier and Strange from helping Wanda, based on a feverish dream scene where he asks Xavier to kill him and help Wanda continue her fantasy, is rebuffed despite veiled threats and then stands resigned, that's your cup of tea.

Current Doom whoops the anus out of Classic

Classic Doom beats Current Strange

Classic Doom one shots Classic Strange like he's done already.

Originally posted by ODG
Reread the first page you just posted. Wanda says she's going to use Wiccan's powers as a safeguard against Doom using her power. Wiccan denies he can help since he believes his powers to be taken, to which Doom just restores his ability to use them. So now Wiccan, with his powers restored, isn't going to use his powers as a safeguard as Wanda asked him to? He's just holding hands for the sake of holding hands?

Don't really see the significance of this "safeguard" you keep mentioning. Doom in essence, allowed Wiccans powers to be incorporated which enabled the upsurp. Later Wiccan and Wanda opened the portal back and Doom (not even part of the circle, annexed even more of the power.

Originally posted by ODG
The allusion to Magneto's manipulation is, once again, completely irrelevant when stacked up against the clear obstacle Wiccan represented. Magneto, Xavier and Dr. Strange all wanted to help Wanda. If you think Magneto single handedly prevented Xavier and Strange from helping Wanda, based on a feverish dream scene where he asks Xavier to kill him and help Wanda continue her fantasy, is rebuffed despite veiled threats and then stands resigned, that's your cup of tea.

I posted a scan of Xavier stating on panel it was a combination of powers at work so where do you get this singlehandedly stuff from? You said Erik's tampering was irrelevant but the scan states otherwise. Now you're going off on a tangent and trying to compare the 2 cases? This is derailment at it's finest.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Don't really see the significance of this "safeguard" you keep mentioning.Well ain't that some ironic sh1et right here. arrrgh Originally posted by Sundipped
Doom in essence, allowed Wiccans powers to be incorporated which enabled the upsurp. Later Wiccan and Wanda opened the portal back and Doom (not even part of the circle, annexed even more of the power. Wiccan was Wanda's actual safeguard that was designed to prevent Doom from usurping power. REREAD YOUR SCAN. That was a function he served. One that failed, but certainly one that bears far more on your shallow assertion that Wanda simply let Doom have her power. And your attempts to distort, trivialize and wish it away aren't gaining any sort of traction. Originally posted by Sundipped
I posted a scan of Xavier stating on panel it was a combination of powers at work so where do you get this singlehandedly stuff from? You said Erik's tampering was irrelevant but the scan states otherwise. Now you're going off on a tangent and trying to compare the 2 cases? This is derailment at it's finest. Who exactly derailed this conversation when you brought in Magneto being emo sadsack in a feverish dream sequence?

On one side, you've got Strange trying to relieve Wanda (not even necessarily strip her of her uncontrollable powers), with the assistance of Xavier for months and irrelevant daddy issues surfacing in some random tie-in, and on the other side you have Wiccan actively trying to deny Doom usurping the Life Force and you're expecting us to conclude that Strange ended up looking better than Doom did when dealing with Wanda or that Doom's feat is to be diminished?

Da phuck?

Still haven't seen anything to suggest Strange winning here.

side with doom

At first I was gonna let this slide but....

Originally posted by ODG
Well ain't that some ironic sh1et right here. arrrgh Wiccan was Wanda's actual safeguard that was designed to prevent Doom from usurping power. REREAD YOUR SCAN. That was a function he served. One that failed, but certainly one that bears far more on your shallow assertion that Wanda simply let Doom have her power. And your attempts to distort, trivialize and wish it away aren't gaining any sort of traction. Who exactly derailed this conversation when you brought in Magneto being emo sadsack in a feverish dream sequence?

Wiccans safeguard is significant in what way again? He failed. Not that it matters what you think anyway. Wanda trying to guage Dooms power from using the dark arts to allow a nexus being to be permitted access to multiversal power is not a feat worthy enough to trump Strange. Don't even know why you brought that up.

Originally posted by ODG
On one side, you've got Strange trying to relieve Wanda (not even necessarily strip her of her uncontrollable powers), with the assistance of Xavier for months and irrelevant daddy issues surfacing in some random tie-in, and on the other side you have Wiccan actively trying to deny Doom usurping the Life Force and you're expecting us to conclude that Strange ended up looking better than Doom did when dealing with Wanda or that Doom's feat is to be diminished?Da phuck?

Da phuck is right.
You've now demoted yourself to facepalm status. facepalm
Why? Because your misdirection tactics are excruciatingly transparent.

You quoted my reply to Mindset with this:

Originally posted by ODG
Character statements can be suspect. But, Children's Crusade has feats also. You have to remember, Dr. Strange completely failed to inhibit Wanda's increased power even with Xavier's help in the leadup to House of M. Doom just ended up stealing that sh1t for himself.

So it was YOU who brought in irrelevant topics such as Strange and Xavier failing to help Wanda mentally. At no point did I insinuate Stranges troubles in events leading up to HOM were>>>>what Doom accomplished in CC. In fact, I even showed a scan stating that it was a combination of powers (Xavier, Stephens, and Magnetos) at work + the fact that a holding back Strange had no problems at all in a direct confrontation with a pissed Wanda, (before he used the Eye). You still continued your tirade and pointed the finger at me as if I was the one trying to compare 2 totally different scenarios.

How dare you try this to a veteran poster!

Originally posted by Sundipped

the fact that a holding back Strange had no problems at all in a direct
confrontation with a pissed Wanda, (before he used the Eye)
To be fair, let's remember that was Pre-Hom, (while powerful, not as uber as HOM)
and Wanda's mental state was even more fragile than in HOM.

Also, it was only two pages,
where Strange sneak attacked Wanda,
Wanda took it, basically unfazed,
then Wanda attacks him and he blocks it,
then Wanda re-created Dormy and used him as a weapon,
Strange definitely felt that, he re-composed
and used the Eye to show Wanda what she had done.
The realization of the horror she committed lead to a comatose.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13323582_W1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13323583_W2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13323584_W3.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13323587_W4.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13323590_W5.jpg

Make no mistake, Strange made it clear in that issue earlier on
that Wanda was already controlling power beyond his abilities.

Imo, Dr Strange was about to get owned it seemed
until he pulled out the guilt card.

^
There was no sneak attack. He called her name and got her attention first.
He dismissed that fake Dormy with ease. He wasn't fazed in the slightest.
IYO Doc was about to get owned, however my opinion differs greatly. Doc didn't even invoke any higher powers.

Oh well it is what it is. I'll still respect your opinion.

I'm still confused as to why you think that fight was a curbstomping in favor of Doc, though.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
There was no sneak attack. He called her name and got her attention first.
He dismissed that fake Dormy with ease. He wasn't fazed in the slightest.
IYO Doc was about to get owned, however my opinion differs greatly. Doc didn't even invoke any higher powers.

Oh well it is what it is. I'll still respect your opinion. So if I'm standing behind you and I yell out your name before I punch you in the face, it's not a sneak attack?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm still confused as to why you think that fight was a curbstomping in favor of Doc, though.

Because he used a item which is a part of his powerset for the ko.

Originally posted by Mindset
So if I'm standing behind you and I yell out your name before I punch you in the face, it's not a sneak attack?

Look at the 2nd scan closely. When Wanda turned around she didn't get struck by Strange.

*Edit*

Originally posted by Sundipped
^

There was no sneak attack. He called her name and got her attention first.
He dismissed that fake Dormy with ease. He wasn't fazed in the slightest.
IYO Doc was about to get owned, however my opinion differs greatly.
Doc didn't even invoke any higher powers.
Actually, I just noticed you're right about that,
she blocked his attack before it hit her.

He still snuck up on her though, she just reacted quickly.

If you notice, Doc had already let out his blast,
and then Wanda manifested a shield, with a gesture no-less before it reached her.

I never said that Dormy was special,
I was only describing the scene
which clearly illustrates he was fazed "in the slightest" of course.

Earlier in the issue, when Doc realized Wanda's capabilities,
it was clear he felt inferior. (I'll post the scans in a bit)
Doc didn't invoke "higher powers" but what is the Eye of Aggy then?
Granted it, he didn't use it as an offensive weapon to stop Wanda,
but he did use it to serve a purpose which would equal to the same affect.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Oh well it is what it is. I'll still respect your opinion.
Likewise. In the end, that's all that matters.

Originally posted by Sundipped
At first I was gonna let this slide but....

Wiccans safeguard is significant in what way again? He failed. Not that it matters what you think anyway. Wanda trying to guage Dooms power from using the dark arts to allow a nexus being to be permitted access to multiversal power is not a feat worthy enough to trump Strange. Don't even know why you brought that up. It's significant because he was an active overt obstacle to Doom obtaining the Lifeforce when you are the one who insisted that Wanda simply handed it over to Doom. What is not clear about this? Just because he failed, doesn't mean Wanda didn't care about Doom taking the Lifeforce. She didn't want Doom to have the Lifeforce. She actively sought outside assistance to prevent Doom from usurping the Lifeforce. So your estimation that Doom's feat of stealing the Lifeforce out from under her should be somehow diminished is completely ignorant. Not only did Wanda not want Doom to have the Lifeforce, she actually got Wiccan to help her prevent Doom from usurping it. Originally posted by Sundipped
Da phuck is right.
You've now demoted yourself to facepalm status. facepalm
Why? Because your misdirection tactics are excruciatingly transparent.

You quoted my reply to Mindset with this:

So it was YOU who brought in irrelevant topics such as Strange and Xavier failing to help Wanda mentally. At no point did I insinuate Stranges troubles in events leading up to HOM were>>>>what Doom accomplished in CC. In fact, I even showed a scan stating that it was a combination of powers (Xavier, Stephens, and Magnetos) at work + the fact that a holding back Strange had no problems at all in a direct confrontation with a pissed Wanda, (before he used the Eye). You still continued your tirade and pointed the finger at me as if I was the one trying to compare 2 totally different scenarios.

How dare you try this to a veteran poster! Uh, no. You're the one who started acting like Children's Crusade contained nothing that would elevate Doom's status when compared to Strange. It did. Big time. Beyond character statements, which I agreed can be suspect. You tried to wave that off by suggesting Wanda just about handed over the keys to Doom. A stupid, ignorant statement as we just went over. You tried to act like Magneto daddy issues should be taken into account for Strange's problems with helping Wanda suppress her power. Another stupid attempt since Strange had Xavier's assistance, had him working on her for months, and the goal Strange set for himself was FAR LOWER than the one Doom planned on.

So Strange failing to help Wanda suppress her power with assistance from Xavier who worked on her for months, even with her daddy issues inadvertently hindering their efforts reflects absolutely poorly on him when Doom successfully managed to steal her power (a far harder feat), without any assistance whatsoever, and with Wiccan actively and overtly trying to prevent him from doing so.

That's about as black-and-white as it can get. And nothing really diminishes that in the slightest.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Look at the 2nd scan closely. When Wanda turned around she didn't get struck by Strange. Yes, she got struck a few seconds later.

Originally posted by Mindset
So if I'm standing behind you and I yell out your name before I punch you in the face, it's not a sneak attack?

Be thankful he remembers your name, Sundipped.

Originally posted by ODG
It's significant because he was an active overt obstacle to Doom obtaining the Lifeforce when you are the one who insisted that Wanda simply handed it over to Doom. What is not clear about this? Just because he failed, doesn't mean Wanda didn't care about Doom taking the Lifeforce. She didn't want Doom to have the Lifeforce. She actively sought outside assistance to prevent Doom from usurping the Lifeforce. So your estimation that Doom's feat of stealing the Lifeforce out from under her should be somehow diminished is completely ignorant. Not only did Wanda not want Doom to have the Lifeforce, she actually got Wiccan to help her prevent Doom from usurping it. Uh, no. You're the one who started acting like Children's Crusade contained nothing that would elevate Doom's status when compared to Strange. It did. Big time. Beyond character statements, which I agreed can be suspect. You tried to wave that off by suggesting Wanda just about handed over the keys to Doom. A stupid, ignorant statement as we just went over. You tried to act like Magneto daddy issues should be taken into account for Strange's problems with helping Wanda suppress her power. Another stupid attempt since Strange had Xavier's assistance, had him working on her for months, and the goal Strange set for himself was FAR LOWER than the one Doom planned on.

So Strange failing to help Wanda suppress her power with assistance from Xavier who worked on her for months, even with her daddy issues inadvertently hindering their efforts reflects absolutely poorly on him when Doom successfully managed to steal her power (a far harder feat), without any assistance whatsoever, and with Wiccan actively and overtly trying to prevent him from doing so.

That's about as black-and-white as it can get. And nothing really diminishes that in the slightest.

I mean seriously, WTF is not computing here?

You, and ONLY YOU are the one who first...BROUGHT THIS UP, thinking somehow I was trying to compare events from CC & pre - HOM when I'm telling you all this time there is no comparison to be made. I asked how can Wanda guage Strange's power and then you started this nonsense.

About Wiccan....who
In case you missed it the first time pay attention.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Wanda trying to guage Dooms power from using the dark arts to allow a nexus being to be permitted access to multiversal power is not a feat worthy enough to trump Strange. DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.

About the unsuccessful Xavier/Erik/Steve teamup.... who

Really don't know why you're even hyping up a lackluster performance so much. Wanda getting ktfo in a direct confrontation with Strange>>>>>>>>>>>>>failed mental approach. Especially when it was her getting ktfo which led to her being bedridden in the first place.

All things considered, why are you still trying to compare these cases when the basis of argument is not in the favor of the assumption(you thinking I'm comparing) you're trying to push?

You know what......who

All I wanna know is which one was it, blatant misdirection or just a simple misunderstanding?

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, she got struck a few seconds later.

So is it still a sneak attack even though 3 complete sentences can be spoken by Strange beforehand?

After the Hazareth Three arc, Doom still had the power-up he won from the Demons ?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm still confused as to why you think that fight was a curbstomping in favor of Doc, though.

Would you place classic Strange on Doom's level?