Rank then in reflex speed

Digi

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Surfer
Gladiator
Spider-man
Captain America
Thor = Namor
Hulk
Thing

cool

Actually...maybe. Thor and Hulk have scattered showings that may throw monkeys into the wrench though.

It should be noted that, feat-wise, Spider-Man has provably dodged and avoided everyone on this list repeatedly except for Gladiator (who he's never fought to my knowledge), and has also knocked out Hulk (PIS of course, but a great damage-avoiding feat), and I think Namor (it was forever ago, like early 70's...my memory's sketchy on their encounter). I'm not arguing for him any higher than he is, but it's a fun bit of trivia.

carver9

Spiderman has also dodge Surfer.

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by Digi
Actually...maybe. Thor and Hulk have scattered showings that may throw monkeys into the wrench though.

It should be noted that, feat-wise, Spider-Man has provably dodged and avoided everyone on this list repeatedly except for Gladiator (who he's never fought to my knowledge), and has also knocked out Hulk (PIS of course, but a great damage-avoiding feat), and I think Namor (it was forever ago, like early 70's...my memory's sketchy on their encounter). I'm not arguing for him any higher than he is, but it's a fun bit of trivia.

The bottom of the bracket is all pretty close. There isn't an insurmountable different in reflexes / combat speed between Thor, Namor, Hulk and The Thing, they are all fast enough to bang it out with one another, but there is a perceptible difference and that's the order I feel they shake out in.

Digi

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman has also dodge Surfer.

That's what I said.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The bottom of the bracket is all pretty close. There isn't an insurmountable different in reflexes / combat speed between Thor, Namor, Hulk and The Thing, they are all fast enough to bang it out with one another, but there is a perceptible difference and that's the order I feel they shake out in.

thumb up

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
From fastest to slowest..

Carver9
Mindset
Jake
Cosmic
Rage
Pr
Galan

Go play in traffic.

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
Go play in traffic.

laughing out loud

pym-ftw

Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Thor
Spiderman w/ SS
Hulk
Spiderman w/o SS
Cap
Namor
Daredevil / peak human
Ben

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Thor
Spiderman w/ SS
Hulk
Spiderman w/o SS
Cap
Namor
Daredevil / peak human
Ben

sick

Zack Fair

Originally posted by carver9
From fastest to slowest..

Carver9
Mindset
Jake
Cosmic
Rage
Pr
Galan http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/michael_scott/tumblr_la8cct5YnD1qace781.gif

-Pr-

Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Thor
Spider-Man
Namor
Captain America
Hulk
Thing

h1a8

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Peak Human
Captain America
Thing
Spider-man
Namor
Hulk
Thor
Gladiator
Silver Surfer

Spider-man (reacts before the attack)
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Thor
Captain America
Namor
Hulk
Thing
Peak Human

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by -Pr-
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Thor
Spider-Man
Namor
Captain America
Hulk
Thing

You... you think Thor has faster reflexes than Spider-man? Really? confused

-Pr-

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You... you think Thor has faster reflexes than Spider-man? Really? confused

If not faster, at least as fast.

Though probably faster, yes.

h1a8

Originally posted by -Pr-
If not faster, at least as fast.

Though probably faster, yes.

Reflexes are measured as TIME it takes to react to something.
Spidey can act right before the event which makes his reflexes infinite.

-Pr-

Originally posted by h1a8
Reflexes are measured as TIME it takes to react to something.
Spidey can act right before the event which makes his reflexes infinite.

I know how it's measured.

If both fought Superman, Superman would hit Spider-Man more than he would hit Thor.

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by -Pr-
If not faster, at least as fast.

Though probably faster, yes.

Can I ask what Thor feats you are basing this on? Because Spider-man's reflexes and combat speed feats are noticeably superior to Thor's...

h1a8

Originally posted by -Pr-
I know how it's measured.

If both fought Superman, Superman would hit Spider-Man more than he would hit Thor.
True but that has nothing to do with reflexes (Thor has Mjolnir for defense as well). Superman is a smart missile (can change directions to follow Spidey) while lasers and bullets are dumb and can't change directions in flight.

Zack Fair

Spidey > Thor.

You damned thorbags uhuh

-Pr-

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Can I ask what Thor feats you are basing this on? Because Spider-man's reflexes and combat speed feats are noticeably superior to Thor's...

Mostly his fights against people like Surfer, and his blocking feats. Then stuff like Jake and ODG (some, not all) posted in the past.

Originally posted by h1a8
True but that has nothing to do with reflexes (Thor has Mjolnir for defense as well). Superman is a smart missile (can change directions to follow Spidey) while lasers and bullets are dumb and can't change directions in flight.

It does to me.

Mindset

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Spidey > Thor.

You damned thorbags uhuh thumb up

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by -Pr-
Mostly his fights against people like Surfer, and his blocking feats. Then stuff like Jake and ODG (some, not all) posted in the past.

It does to me.

Why do you have Hulk so low then? He's done everything Thor has in regards to reflexes and throwing down with Surfer and Glads, and other legitimate speedsters.

As far as I'm concerned Spider-man combat speed and reflexes feats are head and shoulders above Thor's. Everyone remembers Spidy blitzing Masterson, I'm sure?

carver9

Good comparison Srank. Masterson and Thor had a prolong, physical fight whereas Masterson couldn't even lay a glove on Spiderman.

Digi

See, there's no right answer. It's why the first few posts were pics and gifs. Spider-man has better quantifiable feats, sometimes even facing Thor and Hulk. But as soon as you start the ABC comparisons (Thor fought Superman, Gladiator, Surfer, etc. Hulk fought Thor, Surfer, etc.) then you have two competing theories that are irreconcilable. Welcome to comics.

pym-ftw

^not to mention Thor's Ftl Travel

eaebiakuya

I dont think Spider man have best quantificable feats.

Namor, Hulk and Thor alredy tagged or grabbed missiles, wich are much faster than bullets. Spider-man had problem to grab two bullets.

Digi

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
I dont think Spider man have best quantificable feats.

Namor, Hulk and Thor alredy tagged or grabbed missiles, wich are much faster than bullets. Spider-man had problem to grab two bullets.

Pete has also snagged missiles. And run reflex-circles around at least Namor and Hulk in head-to-head matchups. And Masterson Thor, who ostensibly had the same power set. And Firestorm, a clear peer of many of these characters. The feats are there.

Also, in tracking down a missile, it's often a travel speed feat. They aren't juking around like crazy. We're talking reflexes here, not straight-line speed.

But I agree, all these characters have matchup-related feats where they face someone, and tag them, that should be much faster. Thus the irreconcilable differences I mentioned.

carver9

Originally posted by Digi
See, there's no right answer. It's why the first few posts were pics and gifs. Spider-man has better quantifiable feats, sometimes even facing Thor and Hulk. But as soon as you start the ABC comparisons (Thor fought Superman, Gladiator, Surfer, etc. Hulk fought Thor, Surfer, etc.) then you have two competing theories that are irreconcilable. Welcome to comics.

But Spiderman has also faced these people and looking at the way he went against them, I can see why people rank him so high. Look at his fight against Firelord, Absorbing man, Surfer, Masterson, hell, every Herald that he's faced got blitzed. Like I've said before, when it comes to fights, its hard to find someone matching Spiderman combat showings. People just need to throw their Pride out of the window and look at the truth.

Digi

Originally posted by carver9
But Spiderman has also faced these people and looking at the way he went against them, I can see why people rank him so high. Look at his fight against Firelord, Absorbing man, Surfer, Masterson, hell, every Herald that he's faced got blitzed. Like I've said before, when it comes to fights, its hard to find someone matching Spiderman combat showings. People just need to throw their Pride out of the window and look at the truth.

laughing out loud

As if truth exists in comics. I like the sentiment though.

I forgot about his fight with AM. Nice catch. I'd personally keep him above all but Surfer and maybe Glads on the list. But I'm usually - but not always - higher on Pete than the "room" so to speak.

eaebiakuya

Originally posted by Digi
Pete has also snagged missiles. And run reflex-circles around at least Namor and Hulk in head-to-head matchups. And Masterson Thor, who ostensibly had the same power set. And Firestorm, a clear peer of many of these characters. The feats are there.

Also, in tracking down a missile, it's often a travel speed feat. They aren't juking around like crazy. We're talking reflexes here, not straight-line speed.

But I agree, all these characters have matchup-related feats where they face someone, and tag them, that should be much faster. Thus the irreconcilable differences I mentioned.

Grab airplanes missiles with the hand is not a "travel feat".

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif

I agree with that : Namor, Thor and Hulk having more low showings of speed than Spider-man.

But they high-end speed feats are way better.

Hulk alredy tagged Peter with ease too for example.

The fight against Fire Lord and Materson is PIS imo.

Digi

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Grab airplanes missiles with the hand is not a "travel feat".

I said "often." I was having to discuss a feat I hadn't seen, and I made that clear.

That's a good feat. All of these characters have good feats. It doesn't change the fact that SM's reflex feats are better overall. Go to his respect thread (DarkCrawler's, the newest and biggest) and find the reflex section. There's, no joke, hundreds that compete with that one.

Hulk tagging SM is also realistic, because he's not going to dodge forever. But if Pete can tag Hulk 10x before Hulk tags him once, he has better reflexes. I'd say that's almost conservative given their few matchups.

Mindset

Spiderman has webbed up missiles shot at him.

-Pr-

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Why do you have Hulk so low then? He's done everything Thor has in regards to reflexes and throwing down with Surfer and Glads, and other legitimate speedsters.

As far as I'm concerned Spider-man combat speed and reflexes feats are head and shoulders above Thor's. Everyone remembers Spidy blitzing Masterson, I'm sure?

I don't agree, but we both know you think Wolverine is faster than Thor, so it's not like we're going to agree.

Eww Masterson.

Originally posted by carver9
But Spiderman has also faced these people and looking at the way he went against them, I can see why people rank him so high. Look at his fight against Firelord, Absorbing man, Surfer, Masterson, hell, every Herald that he's faced got blitzed. Like I've said before, when it comes to fights, its hard to find someone matching Spiderman combat showings. People just need to throw their Pride out of the window and look at the truth.

Did you ever actually read the rules of this forum?

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't agree, but we both know you think Wolverine is faster than Thor, so it's not like we're going to agree.

Eww Masterson.

I think all top tier streets have faster reflexes / combat speed feats than Thor... because they do. Since I don't care about how Thor matches up against Superman, I don't need to pretend he is faster than he is like lot of posters (not necessarily you) on KMC do.

/shrug

-Pr-

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think all top tier streets have faster reflexes / combat speed feats than Thor... because they do. Since I don't care about how Thor matches up against Superman, I don't need to pretend he is faster than he is like lot of posters (not necessarily you) on KMC do.

/shrug

I don't agree, tbh. But you knew that already lol

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Peak Human
Captain America
Thing
Spider-man
Namor
Hulk
Thor
Gladiator
Silver Surfer

SS
Gladz
Thor
Hulk
Spidey
Namor
Cap
Thing
Peak Human

abhilegend

Gladiator
Surfer
Spidey
Namor
Thor
Cap
Hulk
Thing

pym-ftw

:^you really hate Thor don't you
whistle

abhilegend

Originally posted by pym-ftw
:^you really hate Thor don't you
whistle

Thor is my favorite marvel character and second favorite after superman.

-Pr-

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor is my favorite marvel character and second favorite after superman.

lol, is that you Carver?

abhilegend

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, is that you Carver?
I've always said that thor is my second favorite. Unlike carver, I actually know about thor and hulk.

-Pr-

Originally posted by abhilegend
I've always said that thor is my second favorite. Unlike carver, I actually know about thor and hulk.

Sounds like Carver talk to me.

abhilegend

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sounds like Carver talk to me.
Nope.
Try again.

Astner

The Hulk has faster reflexes than Spider-man? Spider-man has the spider-sense. I can't recall seeing the Hulk ever having evaded anything.

The Sorrow

Originally posted by Astner
The Hulk has faster reflexes than Spider-man? Spider-man has the spider-sense. I can't recall seeing the Hulk ever having evaded anything.
Hulk tags Spiderman, Wolverine etc when he needs to and has easily tagged Quicksilver, punched a speeding Sentry in mid-flight, hit an amped Surfer with a rock who was flying at top speed, dodged Mjolnir throws, grabbed a speeding Surfer mid-flight, caught Speedfreak etc etc. Hulk doesn't need to evade most things he's a tank, Spiderman has far less durability and far less weight to carry so he's obviously going to be a lot more agile and need to dodge things more often. His spider-sense also aids him in dodging attacks too, Hulk's reactions are far above human, and definitely rival Thor, Spiderman etc.

h1a8

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk tags Spiderman, Wolverine etc when he needs to and has easily tagged Quicksilver, punched a speeding Sentry in mid-flight, hit an amped Surfer with a rock who was flying at top speed, dodged Mjolnir throws, grabbed a speeding Surfer mid-flight, caught Speedfreak etc etc. Hulk doesn't need to evade most things he's a tank, Spiderman has far less durability and far less weight to carry so he's obviously going to be a lot more agile and need to dodge things more often. His spider-sense also aids him in dodging attacks too, Hulk's reactions are far above human, and definitely rival Thor, Spiderman etc.
False! Spidey and Logan has tagged Hulk also.
Hulk tags Spidey and Logan only after trying countless times. Characters don't usually dodge forever. But tagging someone has to do with speed, not reflexes. Reflexes is responding to what someone else's done. Spidey has infinite reflexes, he can dodge before the initial attack is launched. Also you can't gauge Hulk's speed and reflexes based off what he did to other characters. Comic characters are notorious for not using their top speed. Look at Superman and Surfer as an example. Sentry, Surfer, Mjolnir, etc. wasn't going that fast when Hulk responded to them. Also distance to react affects time in which to react. For example, Spidey responding to a bullet 2 inches from his body trumps Hulk responding to someone or something flying at similar speeds from far back. Hulk has never dodged or responded to light speed attacks, Spidey has. Only a serious joke thinks that Hulk has better reflexes than Spidey when clearly Spidey has the better feats and the Most consistent showings.

abhilegend

Spidey has danced circles around hulk. There is no competition regarding speed between spidey and hulk.

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, is that you Carver?

Really Pr? Really?

pym-ftw

Why do you guys rate Ben over the peak humans, like DD and Batman?

Just wondering

Kid Kurdy

Can't believe people actually think Thor has better reflexes than Spider-Man.

He's not even close.

pym-ftw

^yeah I know one flys at ftl threw astroids, the other is Mach 1 at best

stick out tongue

carver9

I wonder if Thor admitting Wolverine is faster than him should hold any weight here?

-Pr-

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Why do you guys rate Ben over the peak humans, like DD and Batman?

Just wondering

I don't.

Originally posted by carver9
I wonder if Thor admitting Wolverine is faster than him should hold any weight here?

Feats > statements.

JakeTheBank

Originally posted by carver9
I wonder if Thor admitting Wolverine is faster than him should hold any weight here?

Not when Thor literally grabbed him by his ankle after stating that and showed the reflexes to block an ambush from Wolverine with Mjolnir.

Silent Master

Originally posted by carver9
I wonder if Thor admitting Wolverine is faster than him should hold any weight here?

Are you aware of what happened in that fight?

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not when Thor literally grabbed him by his ankle after stating that and showed the reflexes to block an ambush from Wolverine with Mjolnir.

You understand that faster != untouchable? Aldo is faster than everyone he fights... he still gets tagged. Wolverine landed more hits, and avoided more hits... what about that some how casts a shadow over Thor claiming Wolverine is faster?

Also... he has better speed feats. cool

JakeTheBank

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You understand that faster != untouchable? Aldo is faster than everyone he fights... he still gets tagged. Wolverine landed more hits, and avoided more hits... what about that some how casts a shadow over Thor claiming Wolverine is faster?

Also... he has better speed feats. cool

It means jack shit, really, as evidenced by their actual fight.

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't agree, tbh. But you knew that already lol

evil face

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It means jack shit, really, as evidenced by their actual fight.

A fight where Wolverine avoided more incoming blows, landed more blows of his own, and was stated by his opponent to be faster? Yeah... that's what I thought. Thor grabbing Wolverine doesn't make the slate even... Wolverine was CLEARLY shown to be faster than Thor in that fight. No question about it.

Naija boy

Silver surfer
Gladiator
Spiderman
Thor
Captain america
Namor
Hulk
thing

h1a8

Originally posted by Naija boy
Silver surfer
Gladiator
Spiderman
Thor
Captain america
Namor
Hulk
thing

As far as reacting after the attack this is spot on.
But I based Spidey as being #1 simply because of his SS; when an attack starts he would have already reacted (Pre-Cog). This is why he can dodge light speed attacks by surprise.

So if Reflex speed = time to react after event then Spidey would have INFINITE reflexes since his time to react is 0. Where others, including Surfer, is a tiny fraction that is very close to 0.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Peak Human
Captain America
Thing
Spider-man
Namor
Hulk
Thor
Gladiator
Silver Surfer

Gladiator
Spiderman
Silver Surfer
Captain America
Thor
Namor
Hulk
Thing

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by h1a8
As far as reacting after the attack this is spot on.
But I based Spidey as being #1 simply because of his SS; when an attack starts he would have already reacted (Pre-Cog). This is why he can dodge light speed attacks by surprise.

So if Reflex speed = time to react after event then Spidey would have INFINITE reflexes since his time to react is 0. Where others, including Surfer, is a tiny fraction that is very close to 0.

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

Reflex is the speed in which you react to a stimulus. Him knowing a punch is coming doesn't make his reaction time infinite, because he isn't reacting to the punch in the first place, he is reaction to his Spider-Sense. In Spider-man's case, the stimulus is his Spider-Sense. The lag between the time his Spider-Sense goes off, and when he reacts to that sensation would be is reaction time.

h1a8

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

Reflex is the speed in which you react to a stimulus. Him knowing a punch is coming doesn't make his reaction time infinite, because he isn't reacting to the punch in the first place, he is reaction to his Spider-Sense. In Spider-man's case, the stimulus is his Spider-Sense. The lag between the time his Spider-Sense goes off, and when he reacts to that sensation would be is reaction time.

This is where you fail to understand the spirit of the thread or why the thread was created. Clearly the OP wants to know who can respond to external threats the fastest. The answer is Spidey. Who care's about his reflex to respond to his SS when he will still respond to an attack before it or as it happens?

What you speak is not interesting or relevant to a battle situation (in which this forum is all about). Why ask a question that's irrelevant to a battle situation? For all practical purposes Spidey can RESPOND to any instant threat faster than any character in this thread. The mechanical of how he responds is irrelevant in light of the spirit of the thread.

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by h1a8
This is where you fail to understand the spirit of the thread or why the thread was created. Clearly the OP wants to know who can respond to external threats the fastest. The answer is Spidey. Who care's about his reflex to respond to his SS when he will still respond to an attack before it or as it happens?

What you speak is not interesting or relevant to a battle situation (in which this forum is all about). Why ask a question that's irrelevant to a battle situation? For all practical purposes Spidey can RESPOND to any instant threat faster than any character in this thread. The mechanical of how he responds is irrelevant in light of the spirit of the thread.

facepalm

Of course it's relevant, you are claiming that Spider-man's reaction time is ∞... and isn't. He reacts to the information he processes from his Spider-Sense the same as everyone else reacts to other sensory information. It's not an instantaneous reaction, which means there is a latency between the time he is warned of an incoming an attack, and the time his mind has processed that information and sent out the order to move out of the way. If Superman throws a fast ball at Spider-man he'll hit Spider-man in that gap of time between when Spider-man's Spider-Sense goes off, and when his brain sends out the order to do anything about it. The same isn't true for Silver Surfer, who may need to wait until he perceives the attack to react to it... but unlike Spider-man he would be fast enough to react.

JakeTheBank

Spidey has also stated that while his Spider-Sense will alert him to danger, he still needs to be able to physically dodge said danger or react to it.

srankmissingnin

h1a8

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
facepalm

Of course it's relevant, you are claiming that Spider-man's reaction time is ∞... and isn't. He reacts to the information he processes from his Spider-Sense the same as everyone else reacts to other sensory information. It's not an instantaneous reaction, which means there is a latency between the time he is warned of an incoming an attack, and the time his mind has processed that information and sent out the order to move out of the way. If Superman throws a fast ball at Spider-man he'll hit Spider-man in that gap of time between when Spider-man's Spider-Sense goes off, and when his brain sends out the order to do anything about it. The same isn't true for Silver Surfer, who may need to wait until he perceives the attack to react to it... but unlike Spider-man he would be fast enough to react.

His reaction time to DANGER is infinite because he responds before the threat is even initialized, not after. Who cares about anything else? This thread is about reflex time, not speed. If Spidey had Superman's speed along with the SS then not even Superman can hit him.

What you don't know is that the SS is pre-cog and Spidey will move before the ball is thrown. But Spidey will get hit by Superman's fastball simply because Superman will adjust to Spidey's new position in early swing. Thus he is a smart attack. Lasers (dumb attacks) have been dodged by Spidey before they were fired. Lasers don't adjust while or even after being fired as they fire instantaneously (no swinging motion). To Superman throwing a ball is not instantaneous and thus his throwing motion can be adjusted in mid swing.

h1a8

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Spidey has also stated that while his Spider-Sense will alert him to danger, he still needs to be able to physically dodge said danger or react to it.

He sometimes dodges BEFORE the attack is even launched. This is why he has dodged countless laser and energy beams shot at him from all angles (including from behind). If a bullet will be fired at your head in the upcoming 2 seconds then you don't need to be fast to move your head out of the way. Just simply move before the 2 seconds gets here.

What's shown>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what's said

golem370

Spider-Man is in the top three maybe to two. Is this Silver Surfer with or without his board?

TheGodKiller

Originally posted by h1a8
His reaction time to DANGER is infinite
So you're basically saying that he takes forever to react to the danger that his Spider-Sense warns him about ?

Galan007

Originally posted by carver9
From fastest to slowest..

Carver9
Mindset
Jake
Cosmic
Rage
Pr
Galan Reported for saying that I'm slower than Jake. sneer

SamZED

Anyone who doesnt include Spider-man in top 3 will get slapped in the face by me personally.
PS. Im huge and old enough to buy a plane ticket.

Newjak

Originally posted by SamZED
Anyone who doesnt include Spider-man in top 3 will get slapped in the face by me personally.
PS. Im huge and old enough to buy a plane ticket. Doesn't put Spider-Man in top 3.

Come at me Bro no expression

Batman-Prime

Originally posted by SamZED
Anyone who doesnt include Spider-man in top 3 will get slapped in the face by me personally.
PS. Im huge and old enough to buy a plane ticket.

Gladiator
SS
Thor
Namor
Hulk
CA
Thing
Spiderman

sneer

SamZED

Holly crap..didnt think someone would actually..AHEM.. I mean you guys are lucky im sick right now...

Newjak

Originally posted by SamZED
Holly crap..didnt think someone would actually..AHEM.. I mean you guys are lucky im sick right now... laughing out loud

h1a8

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So you're basically saying that he takes forever to react to the danger that his Spider-Sense warns him about ? lol sorry, I meant he has infinite reflexes (division by 0 is a form of infinity)

pym-ftw

Originally posted by Newjak
Doesn't put Spider-Man in top 3.

Come at me Bro no expression

2nd'd

cdtm

Originally posted by abhilegend
osheet

Could have been worse. No Wolverine, Iron Fist, or Batman. wink

cdtm

Silver Surfer/Gladiator
Spider-man
Thor
Captain America
Hulk/Thing/Namor
Peak Human

DarkSaint85

Lol @ infinite reflexes of Spiderman.

I always thought the Spidey sense just told him something was going to happen, it wasn't Midnighter-ish 'event A followed by event B followed by event C', more like 'something is wrong, but no specifics'.

So he doesn't have infinite reflex speed.

He knows an attack is coming, he braces for a punch....only to be kicked in the nuts. That kind of thing.

cdtm

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol @ infinite reflexes of Spiderman.

I always thought the Spidey sense just told him something was going to happen, it wasn't Midnighter-ish 'event A followed by event B followed by event C', more like 'something is wrong, but no specifics'.

So he doesn't have infinite reflex speed.

He knows an attack is coming, he braces for a punch....only to be kicked in the nuts. That kind of thing.

Sure, but than there's dodging wall to wall machinegun fire. At that point, it's pure reaction and reflex.

The same way Daredevil ricocheting bullets anywhere he pleases is a reflex feat for him, even though he has his radar sense.

Mindset

DarkSaint85

What if it was the Flash throwing SpeedForce imbued bullets at him?

Mindset

He'd punch Flash in the face.

DarkSaint85

Don't project your fantasies onto Peter.

Mindset

I'll project my fantasies into you. sneer

eaebiakuya

About Hulk vs Spiderman....:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSpiderman04ASMAnnual3.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Stats/SavageHulkAgility17ASM120.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSpiderman19MarvelTeam-Up27.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Stats/SavageHulkAgility27PeterParkerSpiderman14.jpg

SamZED

Spider-man faced Hulk half a dozen times and 90% of the time was shown running circles around him. Sometimes Hulk ends up grabbing him (for obvious reasons) but its 10 shots for every shot Hulk lands. As far as their Encounters go reflexes speed is no contest. The most recent example of how such fights usually go is Spider-man vs Rulk. And that was Rulk before he became lame and started jobbing to everyone.

Endless Mike

You have to be able to determine how much precog factors into that though

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not when Thor literally grabbed him by his ankle after stating that and showed the reflexes to block an ambush from Wolverine with Mjolnir. Why would any of that prove that Wolverine is not faster than him?

Even if another guy is faster than me, it doesn't mean I can't block or tag him - that's asinine.

h1a8

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You have to be able to determine how much precog factors into that though It's pre-cog that makes Spidey #1 on the list.

Also it is a fallacy to assume that hitting a character means you have faster reflexes than them. So showings of Hulk tagging Spidey doesn't mean Hulk has faster reflexes than Spidey.

DarkSaint85

So in another thread, would Odin have better reflex speeds than Flash?

-Pr-

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So in another thread, would Odin have better reflex speeds than Flash?

Now you've done it.

TheGodKiller

Originally posted by h1a8
lol sorry, I meant he has infinite reflexes (division by 0 is a form of infinity)
According to your statements Spider-Man takes forever to respond to a threat once his SS has warned him about it . Based on this he shouldn't even be included in this thread since he's too slow(according to you) in comparison to others

Sam , you have my permission to slap him . Slap him with your sickness .

cdtm

Originally posted by h1a8
It's pre-cog that makes Spidey #1 on the list.

Say someone points a gun at you, and tells you he's about to pull the trigger.

You can see it coming. You should have no problem dodging it, right?

Spidey's precog only gives him warning. Actually dodging wall to wall bulletS.. That's the reflex/speed feat. Not too many can match him in that category.

carver9

golem370

The Hulk gets the short end of the stick against peak-superman agility which is silly in my book.

SamZED

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You have to be able to determine how much precog factors into that though It helps but lack of it wont change much. Spider-man lost his ss recently in Slott's run, it only lasted for a couple of months but gave a pretty good idea how much of a factor ss is. Took him some time to get used to not having it (even got shot at first) but eventually adapted. Dodged machinegun fire, explosions point blank range, ran circles around Batroc, Scorpion and Avengers Academy etc

TheGodKiller

Originally posted by SamZED
It helps but lack of it wont change much. Spider-man lost his ss recently in Slott's run, it only lasted for a couple of months but gave a pretty good idea how much of a factor ss is. Took him some time to get used to not having it (even got shot at first) but eventually adapted. Dodged machinegun fire, explosions point blank range, ran circles around Batroc, Scorpion and Avengers Academy etc
Didn't his ss return under Hickman's recent run(about to finish in late December this year) ?

SamZED

He got it back during Spider Island story.

CosmicComet

My favorite kinda thread, especially after weeks of computer downtime.

tier 1:
Gladiator

tier 2 or just sub-tier 1:
Surfer

tier 3:
Namor

Tier 4:
Spiderman
Captain America

Tier 5:
Thor
Hulk
Thing

The gap between tiers gets bigger as you go up. Tier 4 to Tier 5 is like...the difference between RJJ and a lesser boxer; A few hits landed for dozens taken.

eaebiakuya

Originally posted by CosmicComet
My favorite kinda thread, especially after weeks of computer downtime.

tier 1:
Gladiator

tier 2 or just sub-tier 1:
Surfer

tier 3:
Namor

Tier 4:
Spiderman
Captain America

Tier 5:
Thor
Hulk
Thing

The gap between tiers gets bigger as you go up. Tier 4 to Tier 5 is like...the difference between RJJ and a lesser boxer; A few hits landed for dozens taken.

Why you put Namor above Spiderman, Thor, etc ?

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by h1a8
His reaction time to DANGER is infinite because he responds before the threat is even initialized, not after. Who cares about anything else? This thread is about reflex time, not speed. If Spidey had Superman's speed along with the SS then not even Superman can hit him.

What you don't know is that the SS is pre-cog and Spidey will move before the ball is thrown. But Spidey will get hit by Superman's fastball simply because Superman will adjust to Spidey's new position in early swing. Thus he is a smart attack. Lasers (dumb attacks) have been dodged by Spidey before they were fired. Lasers don't adjust while or even after being fired as they fire instantaneously (no swinging motion). To Superman throwing a ball is not instantaneous and thus his throwing motion can be adjusted in mid swing.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maj1gfDnao1qbh830o2_500.gif

Superman wouldn't need to adjust his aim to hit Spider-man. Clark is so fast that he would clock Spider-man LONG before Parker even thought about reacting to the warning his Spider-Sense afforded him. That's what this thread is about. Who's reaction time will afford them the largest leeway in dodging or avoiding an attack... and the answer isn't Spider-man. Even with the handicap his Spider-Sense gives him Parker doesn't have the fastest reflexes of the characters listed in this thread.

Mindship

Reflexes are a two-part process: perception and reaction. With spider-sense, Spider-Man may perceive something sooner than Superman does, but by the time his spider-motor system reacts, Superman has also seen what's coming, and with his super-motor system has already responded.

CosmicComet

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Why you put Namor above Spiderman, Thor, etc ?

General reaction feats on par with what you'd see from street levelers, like they have, but also things above that, like very complex tasks like molding statues or what not within a panel or two.

That's one I'm not set in stone for though.

h1a8

Originally posted by cdtm
Say someone points a gun at you, and tells you he's about to pull the trigger.

You can see it coming. You should have no problem dodging it, right?

Spidey's precog only gives him warning. Actually dodging wall to wall bulletS.. That's the reflex/speed feat. Not too many can match him in that category.
The warning is still pre cog. That is why he can dodge lasers. If it wasn't then he wouldn't be able to dodge lasers. Have all the members on the list stand in a horizontal line. Fire a laser beam at each member at the same time. The first to respond is the winner. Spidey will be first to act thus he is the winner.

h1a8

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maj1gfDnao1qbh830o2_500.gif

Superman wouldn't need to adjust his aim to hit Spider-man. Clark is so fast that he would clock Spider-man LONG before Parker even thought about reacting to the warning his Spider-Sense afforded him. That's what this thread is about. Who's reaction time will afford them the largest leeway in dodging or avoiding an attack... and the answer isn't Spider-man. Even with the handicap his Spider-Sense gives him Parker doesn't have the fastest reflexes of the characters listed in this thread. False, Spidey can move a good distance in 1 sec. If his SS gives him a 1 sec head start then he would be out of the way before Superman even starts his motion. If Spidey moves AFTER Superman starts his motion then he will get hit.
Spidey dodges lasers ONLY because he moves out of the way BEFORE they are initialized.

cdtm

Originally posted by h1a8
False, Spidey can move a good distance in 1 sec. If his SS gives him a 1 sec head start then he would be out of the way before Superman even starts his motion. If Spidey moves AFTER Superman starts his motion then he will get hit.
Spidey dodges lasers ONLY because he moves out of the way BEFORE they are initialized.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/boxed2.gif

carver9

Can Spiderman do this?

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg

Damborgson

easily

carver9

Originally posted by Damborgson
easily

Scans. Can he do this as well (in an instant, a blurry of punches)? Scans of this as well.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/123/heatanc5.jpg/

Damborgson

Of what spiderman catching a bullet then firing off hv? laughing out loud

I was just messing with ya anyway

carver9

Originally posted by Damborgson
Of what spiderman catching a bullet then firing off hv? laughing out loud

I was just messing with ya anyway

Sigh*, ok, I guess I was gathering my scans for nothing. sad

h1a8

Originally posted by carver9
Can Spiderman do this?

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg Spidey has caught a bullet before. He did this when actually avoided a homing bullet for a long while. Dodging lasers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catching bullets.
Again if all members stood in a line where a laser was shot at each simultaneously then Spidey would be the first to respond.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey has caught a bullet before. He did this when actually avoided a homing bullet for a long while. Dodging lasers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catching bullets.
Again if all members stood in a line where a laser was shot at each simultaneously then Spidey would be the first to respond.

What if Surfer got into a hand to hand fight with Spidey, and Surfer had his strength capped at Spidey level, but kept his speed?

cdtm

Originally posted by h1a8
Dodging lasers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catching bullets.

Catching bullets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aim dodging laser.

Nobody dodges an actual laser, unless they're Flash or Quicksilver.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
Again if all members stood in a line where a laser was shot at each simultaneously then Spidey would be the first to respond.
How? He needs to make an action. He needs time to activate his power. He needs time to move a nanometer. The moment the laser fires he is a statue that is thinking about activating his power but is still frozen

SamZED

Originally posted by carver9
Scans. Can he do this as well (in an instant, a blurry of punches)? Scans of this as well.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/123/heatanc5.jpg/ spider-man's never deflected a bullet with his fist but speed-wise he has comparable feats. As for the blur of punches, yes he's done that many times before, tbh never even thought of it as an impressive feat. Maybe someone else will post the scans. But he cant blast people with heat vision... yet.

carver9

Originally posted by SamZED
spider-man's never deflected a bullet with his fist but speed-wise he has comparable feats. As for the blur of punches, yes he's done that many times before, tbh never even thought of it as an impressive feat. Maybe someone else will post the scans. But he cant blast people with heat vision... yet.

That was alien tech that even Vulcan was unable to detect.

The blurry punches was stated by the narriator as something that was happening "instantly". Then we have this...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/68/39597113mf8.jpg/

SamZED

Originally posted by carver9
That was alien tech that even Vulcan was unable to detect.

The blurry punches was stated by the narriator as something that was happening "instantly". Then we have this...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/68/39597113mf8.jpg/ Crap, cant read the text from my phone, the image is too small for some reason, whats happening in that scan?

But how are we supposed to measure "instantly"? Its a statement kindalike "lightning fast". Pete's attacks seemed instant too. Im not arguing that Glads doesnt have better reflexes but these particular feats are well within SM's abilities. Save the last one, cant tell what's happening there.

eaebiakuya

Gladiator speedblitz (forum style lol) X-mens in War of Kings.

Surfer speedblitz Nova, who alredy displayed super speed and reflex before.

Spider catched a bullet, and was hited by another. Catch 2 bullets = too much for Peter.

Surfer, Gladiador, Thor, etc, catch things much faster than bullets without problems.

http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox5/pics/bullet_catch1.jpg

http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox5/pics/bullet_catch2.jpg

http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox5/pics/bullet_hit.jpg

Catch a bullet : High-end speed feat from Peter.

How the hell you can say Peter reactions something like this:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg186/scaled.php?server=186&filename=sentry06oroboros003.jpg&res=landing

Or the Gladiator feat.

-Pr-

Originally posted by h1a8
Again if all members stood in a line where a laser was shot at each simultaneously then Spidey would be the first to respond.

No, he wouldn't.

carver9

Originally posted by SamZED
Crap, cant read the text from my phone, the image is too small for some reason, whats happening in that scan?

But how are we supposed to measure "instantly"? Its a statement kindalike "lightning fast". Pete's attacks seemed instant too. Im not arguing that Glads doesnt have better reflexes but these particular feats are well within SM's abilities. Save the last one, cant tell what's happening there.

Gladiator punching at nano second speeds.

SamZED

Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator punching at nano second speeds. Nanosecond? Well then yeah that's an insane speed feat and way betond SM.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Gladiator speedblitz (forum style lol) X-mens in War of Kings.

Surfer speedblitz Nova, who alredy displayed super speed and reflex before.

Spider catched a bullet, and was hited by another. Catch 2 bullets = too much for Peter.

Surfer, Gladiador, Thor, etc, catch things much faster than

Catch a bullet : High-end speed feat from Peter.

How the hell you can say Peter reactions something like this:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg186/scaled.php?server=186&filename=sentry06oroboros003.jpg&res=landing

Or the Gladiator feat.
Faster than bullets? You mean missiles? They usually seem much slower in comics than bullets and Spider-man cought them a few dozen times anyway and with ease. That feat of Sentry really is beyond what Spider-man's capable off but not all heralds can perform that feat. Dont see Thor fighting at Quicksilver's speed tbh, not sure about Silver Surfer but doubt it as well. And I honestly dont see them replicating some of Spider-man's combat speed feats. Surfer speedblitzed Nova, Spider-man speedblitzed entire teams of people with superhuman reflexes. Its not as cut and dry as you make it sound. Guys like Thor and SS logically should have better reflexes and combat speed but thats not how they're usually shown in comics.

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by h1a8
False, Spidey can move a good distance in 1 sec. If his SS gives him a 1 sec head start then he would be out of the way before Superman even starts his motion. If Spidey moves AFTER Superman starts his motion then he will get hit.
Spidey dodges lasers ONLY because he moves out of the way BEFORE they are initialized.

facepalm

Do you have no concept of how fast Superman is? He moves well in excess of light speed. Parker's spider-sense wouldn't have even finished going off before Superman finished what ever he was doing.

SamZED

And even if it did I dont see whats stopping Supes from changing the trajectory of his attack after Spider-man starts dodging the first one, to Supes Pete will be moving with a speed of ant.

Or did I miss the point of your conversation?

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by SamZED
And even if it did I dont see whats stopping Supes from changing the trajectory of his attack after Spider-man starts dodging the first one, to Supes Pete will be moving with a speed of ant.

Or did I miss the point of your conversation?

Nothing's stopping Superman form adjusting his trajectory... he simply wouldn't need to. Which is the point of the conversation.

Silent Master

CosmicComet

Things like Pre-Cog/Mindreading is useless fluff if you are still too physically slow.

Somewhat similar;
Fight some hard boss in a video game and put on slow-motion mode for everything, and even if you see the attacks being telegraphed easier now, there's still the issue of you needing to move fast enough to do anything about it--which will still be hard, seeing as you're still moving at the same relative speed that made the boss tough to begin with.

Endless Mike

Originally posted by h1a8
It's pre-cog that makes Spidey #1 on the list.

Also it is a fallacy to assume that hitting a character means you have faster reflexes than them. So showings of Hulk tagging Spidey doesn't mean Hulk has faster reflexes than Spidey.

Silver Surfer also has the ability to see into the future... he doesn't use it as often as Spidey does but it is within his powerset.

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Things like Pre-Cog/Mindreading is useless fluff if you are still too physically slow.

Somewhat similar;
Fight some hard boss in a video game and put on slow-motion mode for everything, and even if you see the attacks being telegraphed easier now, there's still the issue of you needing to move fast enough to do anything about it--which will still be hard, seeing as you're still moving at the same relative speed that made the boss tough to begin with.

Yes.

I have no idea why this point needs to be stressed to certain posters, but there is a difference between perceiving an attack and reacting to it.

eaebiakuya

Surfer speedblitzed Nova, Spider-man speedblitzed entire teams of people with superhuman reflexes. Its not as cut and dry as you make it sound. Guys like Thor and SS logically should have better reflexes and combat speed but thats not how they're usually shown in comics.

But Nova is a very fast guy, who can react with the help of the World Mind and he has many speed feats. Look his fight against Drax.

SamZED

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
But Nova is a very fast guy, who can react with the help of the World Mind and he has many speed feats. Look his fight against Drax. Im familiar with Nova but imo its a two way street. Spider-man at one point ran circles around Surfer himself, Pete moved so fast Namor couldn't even follow his movement, speedblitzed upgraded Kain, danced around teams of superheroes with them unable to lay a finger on him, even blitzed some teams etc Not many heralds display that kind of combat speed, they usually trade blows or blasts while Spider-man is often shown landing 10 hits for every hit he takes against the same characters.

carver9

Originally posted by SamZED
Im familiar with Nova but imo its a two way street. Spider-man at one point ran circles around Surfer himself, Pete moved so fast Namor couldn't even follow his movement, speedblitzed upgraded Kain, danced around teams of superheroes with them unable to lay a finger on him, even blitzed some teams etc Not many heralds display that kind of combat speed, they usually trade blows or blasts while Spider-man is often shown landing 10 hits for every hit he takes against the same characters.

Pretty much. That's why I said, "against bricks, Spiderman>>Heralds when it comes to combat showings. A person like Kalibak might not even hit Spiderman once if they fought.

h1a8

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Silver Surfer also has the ability to see into the future... he doesn't use it as often as Spidey does but it is within his powerset.

Although Surfer never uses it in battle it does constitute as pre-cog and thus his reflexes can exceed Spidey's. So Surfer might be the top dog here.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly how far can Spider-man move in 1 sec?

He once covered the distance of at least 10 yards before bullets from machine guns traveled a similar distance. This means he covered said distance in less than a hundredth of a second. So in a second he can cover more than 500 yards easily.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
facepalm

Do you have no concept of how fast Superman is? He moves well in excess of light speed. Parker's spider-sense wouldn't have even finished going off before Superman finished what ever he was doing.

Let's say Spidey is 10ft away from Superman and Superman will fly into the spot where Spiderman is in exactly 23 seconds from now. Between 22.90 and 22.91 seconds Spidey would have moved his entire body out of the spot. Then when 23 seconds arrives (.09 seconds later) Superman will fly into the spot where Spidey was, completely missing him. What's hard to understand here?

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he wouldn't.

Yes he would. Because he would move slightly before it was fired. Somewhat like a false start in sprinting. All other characters would move AFTER the laser was fired.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Gladiator speedblitz (forum style lol) X-mens in War of Kings.

How the hell you can say Peter reactions something like this:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg186/scaled.php?server=186&filename=sentry06oroboros003.jpg&res=landing

Or the Gladiator feat.

reflex speed=/=speed
this thread is about reflex speed, not speed. Reflex speed is about acting FIRST not moving the fastest.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How? He needs to make an action. He needs time to activate his power. He needs time to move a nanometer. The moment the laser fires he is a statue that is thinking about activating his power but is still frozen Well he moves and activates his power BEFORE the laser fires. Odin is not allowed to activate his power BEFORE the bell. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Originally posted by cdtm
Catching bullets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aim dodging laser.

Nobody dodges an actual laser, unless they're Flash or Quicksilver.

False, aim dodging as in what street levelers do =/= what Spidey does. Spidey can dodge a laser from a stand still by moving right before it fires. No street leveler can do this. Spidey will be the first to act from a standstill to any threat before any character on the list.

Bottom line, Spidey can act BEFORE anyone on the list. This is why he has the best reflex speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What if Surfer got into a hand to hand fight with Spidey, and Surfer had his strength capped at Spidey level, but kept his speed? Speed=/=reflex speed. Reflex speed is acting first, speed is moving quickest.
Lastly, Surfer's h2h combat speed isn't on Spidey's level.