Gods vs Galactus

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keiththegreat
Odin with Destroyer Armor and Odinsword
Thor with Belt of strength, magic gauntlets, Odin force shield
Zeus
Loki
Classic Hercules with Mace
Marvel Ares with Twilight Sword
Bor
Perun
Beta Ray Bill and Skuttlebutt
Thunderstrike
Gaea
Bast
Heimdall

vs

Galactus who just ate Four Planets

Fight in the Earth's solar system, starting on Mars. No BFR.

Team gods get the norn stones as well.

Rikudo sennin
Odin did significant damage to galactus in their fight and so did thor adding all these other gods ESPECIALLY GAEA who is the strongest of them would be rape stomp.

ODG
^ You should keep in mind that there was no indication that the Galactus which Odin fought had eaten four planets.

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by ODG
^ You should keep in mind that there was no indication that the Galactus which Odin fought had eaten four planets.

I would think eating one planet is enough for him to go 100% if he eats an additional 3 does it give him power beyond his usual 100%?

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
if he eats an additional 3 does it give him power beyond his usual 100%?

Yes.

As for this thread, Galactus ANNIHILATES this team.

Utrigita
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yes.

As for this thread, Galactus ANNIHILATES this team.

thumb up

bbrem123
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yes.

As for this thread, Galactus ANNIHILATES this team. yup thumb up

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yes.

As for this thread, Galactus ANNIHILATES this team.

Oh shit in that case your right he would kill them all though i believe gaea would be the last one standing.

PillarofOsiris
She probably would be, although I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on Gaea vs the Odin in this thread.

Tar-Antado
4-Planet Galactus will be too much, he wins.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
She probably would be, although I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on Gaea vs the Odin in this thread.
Gaea should be above Odin, based on station alone.

She looked impressive in CW.

PillarofOsiris
Yeah, I know, but what about Odin in Destroyer Armor, with the sword?

pym-ftw
Less powerful characters have slagged the DA, as for the Odin Sword, Idk I feel she should win buy its just because she is an eldergod

Utrigita
Originally posted by ODG
^ You should keep in mind that there was no indication that the Galactus which Odin fought had eaten four planets.

And one of the strangest cosmic battles in comics recently, imo. "When two Omnipotent beings fight we will not see energy blasts, instead we shall bear witness to the awesome power of the headbutt!!!"

Sin I AM
Originally posted by keiththegreat

Marvel Ares with twilight sword




I liked that comic even though it was non-canon and free

vince_slice
Eating four planets allowed Galactus to take on four individual Celestials and even kill one of them. Galactus probably wins.

ODG
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I liked that comic even though it was non-canon and free It was canon. I can't think of a FCBD (Free Comic Book Day) that isn't canon.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by ODG
It was canon. I can't think of a FCBD (Free Comic Book Day) that isn't canon.

Oh wow, ive always thought it was non canon. Pretty cool feat for Ares then

Scoobless
Doesn't the twilight sword alter reality for whoever uses it?

Morgana rewrote the universe with that thing, Ares hands it off to Loki or Odin and that should be enough.

eaebiakuya
This thread is a horribly stomp.

Odin tried a kamikaze attack and did nothing to a Galactus far weaker.

Galactus win with low difficult.

DickBlazer
Very well fed galactus flatens the team after they stop running from him

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Scoobless
Doesn't the twilight sword alter reality for whoever uses it?

Morgana rewrote the universe with that thing, Ares hands it off to Loki or Odin and that should be enough.
Well , Galactus(at base levels) has reality-altering powers himself , so its doubtful how effective it'll be against standard Galactus , let alone the monstrosity which the OP has pitted the gods against in this thread .

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
She probably would be, although I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on Gaea vs the Odin in this thread.

Gaea would destroy him.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Gaea would destroy him.

I dont know about that, Elder God is a title is not necessarily mean that they are that more powerful than Sky Fathers, older yes not necessarily more powerful. If we go by feats Odin smites her, he ahs done things that put him in the cosmic hierarchy.

PillarofOsiris
Gaea would destroy Odin normally, IMO. But the Destroyer armor and Odinsword MIGHT make things more even.

Colossus-Big C
Chaos King Destroyed all kinds of skyfathers and demons through the universe, It wasnt untill he destroyed 99% of the multiverse, that he attempted to absorb gaea.

Gaea also gave birth to Classic Demogorge

the Darkone
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Gaea would destroy Odin normally, IMO. But the Destroyer armor and Odinsword MIGHT make things more even.

Based on feats no, Odin would rock her! pak jacked Gaea origin, CK was complete garbage, it will be recton pretty damn soon.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by the Darkone
Based on feats no, Odin would rock her! pak jacked Gaea origin, CK was complete garbage, it will be recton pretty damn soon. it actually was already retconned.

Chaos King is Oblivion

Everything he did is still cannon

the Darkone
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
it actually was already retconned.

Chaos King is Oblivion

Everything he did is still cannon


I known, should have corrected myself. CK is one aspect of Oblivion, but still it was garbage.

DarkOdin
Man we really need to have Galactus fight against one of the named 616 celestrals to get a gauge on his normal powerlevels, The 4 celestrals Galactus and Franklin took on didn't really impress me much especially how the reeds were fighting them off.

I am going with the Gods on this one they have a ton of fire power and some very heavy hitters on their side.

the Darkone
Galactus all the way. too damn powerful!

Igniz
Big G wrecks smokin'

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Man we really need to have Galactus fight against one of the named 616 celestrals to get a gauge on his normal powerlevels, The 4 celestrals Galactus and Franklin took on didn't really impress me much especially how the reeds were fighting them off.

I am going with the Gods on this one they have a ton of fire power and some very heavy hitters on their side.

I see where you're coming from here, but I would say, based mainly on my opinion alone and admittedly no actual evidence that Galactus having devoured one planet would be a match for a 616 celestial. Even assuming TWO planets make him equal to one 616 celestial, by that generous math, this galactus equals TWO celestials. We saw that ONE CELESTIAL treats a skyfather like an insect. I have to say this galactus wrecks this team.

Slaanesh
Galactus easily..the Gods are nothing compare to this Galactus..

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Man we really need to have Galactus fight against one of the named 616 celestrals to get a gauge on his normal powerlevels, The 4 celestrals Galactus and Franklin took on didn't really impress me much especially how the reeds were fighting them off.

I am going with the Gods on this one they have a ton of fire power and some very heavy hitters on their side. The Reeds were fighting them off with IG's, UN's, and a universal entropy gun.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Reeds were fighting them off with IG's, UN's, and a universal entropy gun.

And still they couldn't stop the mad celestials.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Man we really need to have Galactus fight against one of the named 616 celestrals to get a gauge on his normal powerlevels, The 4 celestrals Galactus and Franklin took on didn't really impress me much especially how the reeds were fighting them off.
Hickman confirmed that those Celestials were equal to their 616-counterparts in terms of power .

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Reeds were fighting them off with IG's, UN's, and a universal entropy gun. But 2 out of 3 of those weapons again were not 616 version so they were weaker

DarkOdin
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Hickman confirmed that those Celestials were equal to their 616-counterparts in terms of power . But thats the thing which counter parts 616 celestials are all over in terms of power levels and were they he state this b/c i never heard that one.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkOdin
But thats the thing which counter parts 616 celestials are all over in terms of power levels and were they he state this b/c i never heard that one.

So why then is it important for Galactus to fight the 616 Celestials in your opinion when their powerlevel to you is so inconsistent?

Hickman stating that Celestials 4280 = Celestials 616 in terms of power.

http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHickman/q/366741398591921348?utm_medium=social&utm_source=noservice&utm_campaign=shareanswer&_sg=&_sk=

keiththegreat
Are author's opinions outside of a comic considered canon? I mean, didn't Pak say WWH would have beat OF Thor? And he also said OF Thor is more powerful than Odin. I think it should have to be written by the author, and then approved by an editor and published in order to be considered canon. As far as I know there is nothing in a marvel comic that says they equal 616 Celestials.

Utrigita
Originally posted by keiththegreat
Are author's opinions outside of a comic considered canon? I mean, didn't Pak say WWH would have beat OF Thor? And he also said OF Thor is more powerful than Odin. I think it should have to be written by the author, and then approved by an editor and published in order to be considered canon. As far as I know there is nothing in a marvel comic that says they equal 616 Celestials.

The writer, in this case Hickman, more confirms what is known concerning the 4280 Celestials, their feats are significant enough (atleast imo) to put them at the same level as their 616 counterparts.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Utrigita
The writer, in this case Hickman, more confirms what is known concerning the 4280 Celestials, their feats are significant enough (atleast imo) to put them at the same level as their 616 counterparts. And i asked again who are their counterparts. Ashrim Tiamat????

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by keiththegreat
Are author's opinions outside of a comic considered canon? I mean, didn't Pak say WWH would have beat OF Thor? And he also said OF Thor is more powerful than Odin. I think it should have to be written by the author, and then approved by an editor and published in order to be considered canon. As far as I know there is nothing in a marvel comic that says they equal 616 Celestials.

Where did Pak say OF Thor was more powerful than Odin?

janus77
Galactus stomps the "gods".

Galactus >= 3 Celestials!

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by keiththegreat
Are author's opinions outside of a comic considered canon? I mean, didn't Pak say WWH would have beat OF Thor? And he also said OF Thor is more powerful than Odin. I think it should have to be written by the author, and then approved by an editor and published in order to be considered canon. As far as I know there is nothing in a marvel comic that says they equal 616 Celestials.
Except this was a writer making comments about characters(the Mad Celestials) he created and about whom he is probably the sole writer of stories which involved said characters .
Never mind the fact that the significant feats they had in 2 or 3 issues worth of appearances clearly sold them as being as powerful as their 616-counterparts .

Also , when did Pak make those statements about OF Thor and Odin ?

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkOdin
And i asked again who are their counterparts. Ashrim Tiamat????

It depends on which of the mad Celestials you choose to look at, but in general the feats performed by the mad Celestias equals those performed by the 616 Celestials, atleast imo.

Harbinger
Spite. Team gets rolled like a Philly.

keiththegreat
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Except this was a writer making comments about characters(the Mad Celestials) he created and about whom he is probably the sole writer of stories which involved said characters .
Never mind the fact that the significant feats they had in 2 or 3 issues worth of appearances clearly sold them as being as powerful as their 616-counterparts .

Also , when did Pak make those statements about OF Thor and Odin ?

I thought the Pak statements were common knowledge here, I guess not. It's a well known comment, although having just re-looked at it after all these years, the interviewer put the "more powerful than Odin" bit in, but Pak didn't deny it.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=183109.0;wap2

Just take a look for that comment on google, you'll find a hundred websites with it.

It doesn't matter if he invented the character. Let's pretend I'm a writer at Marvel and I want the character I invented to be as powerful as the Living Tribunal, but then the editorial staff shoots down the idea but the character still makes it into a comic. It doesn't mean I can say the character I made was more powerful than LT and it's automatically canon. Look at Starlin and Thanos. If he had his way Thanos would be above Galactus.

JakeTheBank
So an interviewer not knowing jack shit about OF Thor and Pak not bothering to correct him means Pak believes WWH > OF Thor > Odin?

barker

keiththegreat
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So an interviewer not knowing jack shit about OF Thor and Pak not bothering to correct him means Pak believes WWH > OF Thor > Odin?

barker


I didn't say that at all. I was using the interview to highlight a point that writer's statements outside of a comic are not canon.

If you disagree with me, then you would have to admit that OF Thor would have no chance against WWH, since Pak said so in an interview. He made WWH afterall.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by keiththegreat
I didn't say that at all. I was using the interview to highlight a point that writer's statements outside of a comic are not canon.

If you disagree with me, then you would have to admit that OF Thor would have no chance against WWH, since Pak said so in an interview. He made WWH afterall.

Pak's statements mean shit to begin with if they're not backed up by on panel evidence or even decent enough allusion.

But just because he didn't correct the interviewer in his (wrong) assertions that Odin Force Thor > Odin, doesn't mean he agrees with the notion that WWH > Odin. The guy clearly believes Zeus and Odin are equals and had Green Scar get put in his place by a holding back Zeus, after all.

keiththegreat
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Pak's statements mean shit to begin with if they're not backed up by on panel evidence or even decent enough allusion.

But just because he didn't correct the interviewer in his (wrong) assertions that Odin Force Thor > Odin, doesn't mean he agrees with the notion that WWH > Odin. The guy clearly believes Zeus and Odin are equals and had Green Scar get put in his place by a holding back Zeus, after all.

Like I said, I mis-remembered it before I looked it up, assuming HE SAID THAT. But he did say OF Thor couldn't beat WWH. And besides, this:

"Pak's statements mean shit to begin with if they're not backed up by on panel evidence or even decent enough allusion."

is the only point I'm trying to make anyway.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Utrigita
It depends on which of the mad Celestials you choose to look at, but in general the feats performed by the mad Celestias equals those performed by the 616 Celestials, atleast imo. Buit what feats did they have that even to 616 Celestials, I doubt this version to take on this many gods with all the amps the Odin wearing the destoryer armour and the odinsword has a good chance of whooping on well fed galactus then add all the other and i can't see big G winning a majority

eaebiakuya
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Buit what feats did they have that even to 616 Celestials, I doubt this version to take on this many gods with all the amps the Odin wearing the destoryer armour and the odinsword has a good chance of whooping on well fed galactus then add all the other and i can't see big G winning a majority

Why you believe Celestials >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galactus ???

In Cancerverse battle, Galactus withstand in the fronline when Celestials run away.

The Mad Celestials won against Kid FR and Nathaniel said they killed adult FR Richards in many timelines. Adult FR used his power + FR kid power to defeat the mad celestials.

To me is safe to say 4 mad celestials > Adult FR.

Doon
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Why you believe Celestials >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galactus ???

In Cancerverse battle, Galactus withstand in the fronline when Celestials run away.

The Mad Celestials won against Kid FR and Nathaniel said they killed adult FR Richards in many timelines. Adult FR used his power + FR kid power to defeat the mad celestials.

To me is safe to say 4 mad celestials > Adult FR.

Nathaniel stated that the Mad Celestials killed Reed (not Adult Franklin) in many timelines. Also, Adult Franklin used young Franklin's power SOLELY to resurrect Galactus; young Franklin's powers did not serve as an amp. This was already discussed at length in another thread. Hickman himself confirmed it.

See his responses below:

Link below:

http://4ms.me/SbOIaO

A formspring user (RogerM616) asks:

"Hi , just wanted to ask that in your recent awesome run in the 604th issue of Fantastic Four, did Galactus opening his palms to reveal adult Franklin Richards signify that Galactus had resurrected the dead adult Franklin ? I am very confused."

And Hickman replied:

"He never died. They just thought he would."

Question 2.

http://4ms.me/NKKpvE

MrAnathema asks:

"Are the Celestials of Earth-4280 equal to their 616 counterparts?"

Jonathan Hickman replied:

"In what way? Power? Sure."

Question 3.

http://4ms.me/NMNuLE

MrAnathema asks:

In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?

JH replied:

"Future Franklin recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."

eaebiakuya
Nathaniel stated FR would lose against the 3 Celestials. FR was going to lose the fight without Galactus.

3 Mad Celestials > Adult FR.

Doon
Originally posted by DarkOdin
And i asked again who are their counterparts. Ashrim Tiamat????

Well, when you think of Celestials that have been used by various authors time and again in 616, which names come to mind? Arishem.. Exitar.. Tiamat..

The 4280 Celestials are essentially in the same league. In other words, in terms of power, they are not inferior. How they compare against each other individually is another story, however.

Doon
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Nathaniel stated FR would lose against the 3 Celestials. FR was going to lose the fight without Galactus.



On his own, AF couldn't defeat all three; that is correct. He was able to take down two of the three Celestials, however. Neither AF or Galactus could defeat all three Mad Celestials singlehandedly; they had to combine their efforts.

Also of note, it appears that Galactus may have been wielding at least some of young Frank's power.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/781/sconfessionv.jpg

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Doon
Well, when you think of Celestials that have been used by various authors time and again in 616, which names come to mind? Arishem.. Exitar.. Tiamat..

The 4280 Celestials are essentially in the same league. In other words, in terms of power, they are not inferior. How they compare against each other individually is another story, however. Yes but my point is did we get the cream of the crop, the middle tier, or the bottom feeders, My guess would be the middle of the road but to say they are equal to 616 celestials is way to baord since the 616 celestial have a broad range of power

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Buit what feats did they have that even to 616 Celestials, I doubt this version to take on this many gods with all the amps the Odin wearing the destoryer armour and the odinsword has a good chance of whooping on well fed galactus then add all the other and i can't see big G winning a majority

They withstood alternate universe IG's that was shown on panel to be universal in their scope, they withstood Alternate UN's which also have been shown to be universal in their scope, in short the Celestials from 4280 withstood, repelled and killed a bunch of Reeds armed with universal classed weapons, add in the fact that three Celestials was stated to have the power to kill Adult Franklin Richards a universal reality warper. I'm sure they have more feats that I'm unaware of. However those feats imo puts them at the level of their 616 counterparts. And the version of Galactus they fought killed one of these and would most likely, had they not merged, defeated the rest.

Nihilist
Galactus was able to re assemble himself after been blown to bits by 5 cosmic cubes= this team isn't putting down a 4 planet fed Big G

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
They withstood alternate universe IG's that was shown on panel to be universal in their scope, they withstood Alternate UN's which also have been shown to be universal in their scope, in short the Celestials from 4280 withstood, repelled and killed a bunch of Reeds armed with universal classed weapons, add in the fact that three Celestials was stated to have the power to kill Adult Franklin Richards a universal reality warper. I'm sure they have more feats that I'm unaware of. However those feats imo puts them at the level of their 616 counterparts. And the version of Galactus they fought killed one of these and would most likely, had they not merged, defeated the rest.

For the record, it was never explicitly stated that the combined might of the three Celestials had the power to "kill" Adult Franklin. (And we also recently learned -- thanks to Hickman -- that AF did not die after he bull-rushed the final Mad Celestial) Nathaniel only said that AF could not "beat" them alone. We still don't know for sure if Galactus himself was killed or left in a comatose state at their hands when he first encountered them. We do, however, know that both Adult Franklin and Galactus were able to defeat 2 Celestials individually, which is an impressive feat in itself. The rest of your statement I agree with.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Utrigita
They withstood alternate universe IG's that was shown on panel to be universal in their scope, they withstood Alternate UN's which also have been shown to be universal in their scope, in short the Celestials from 4280 withstood, repelled and killed a bunch of Reeds armed with universal classed weapons, add in the fact that three Celestials was stated to have the power to kill Adult Franklin Richards a universal reality warper. I'm sure they have more feats that I'm unaware of. However those feats imo puts them at the level of their 616 counterparts. And the version of Galactus they fought killed one of these and would most likely, had they not merged, defeated the rest. You keep on saying their 616 counter parts but which 616 celestial??

tiamat scared the pants off Galactus when he awaken he was shown to take on multiple celestials on his own.

And they didn't with stand the IG the one that got blasted was taken out, and then killed the one reed who was letting him use the IG, And if i remember correctly the reed using th UN it didn't work which based on that fact that version of the UN was <<<< then the 616 version.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkOdin
You keep on saying their 616 counter parts but which 616 celestial??

tiamat scared the pants off Galactus when he awaken he was shown to take on multiple celestials on his own.

And they didn't with stand the IG the one that got blasted was taken out, and then killed the one reed who was letting him use the IG, And if i remember correctly the reed using th UN it didn't work which based on that fact that version of the UN was <<<< then the 616 version.
Those Celestials survived shots from from alternate UNs on more than two occasions . The second time 4280-Eson tanked a point blank hit from the UN before the Reed holding it lost focus .

The IGs and UNs were represented in such a fashion that they were all shown to be equal in terms of their power . That is what Hickman intended with their portrayal . I don't like what Hickman ended up doing in that arc(importing that scene of Darkseid's IG being non-functional from the DC crossover), but it is what it is .

The same Tiamut who got taken over by Mr Sinister and couldn't even fight off his possession(unlike Ghaur) ?

Going by feats , the Mad Celestials are even more powerful than the 616 Celestials(barring Scathan) . Going by writer statements , they are equals to their 616 counterparts . You don't have to like it , but again , it is what it is .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Why you believe Celestials >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galactus ???

In Cancerverse battle, Galactus withstand in the fronline when Celestials run away.

The Mad Celestials won against Kid FR and Nathaniel said they killed adult FR Richards in many timelines. Adult FR used his power + FR kid power to defeat the mad celestials.

To me is safe to say 4 mad celestials > Adult FR.
It was Reed whom they killed . Adult FR's battle was the one variable that never happened in any of those alternate iterations of that particular event(Reed's death at the hands of the MCs) . Galactus coming , the Sol's Anvil being fired were constants though .

Kid Frankie's power was used only for recharging Galactus .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Doon
For the record, it was never explicitly stated that the combined might of the three Celestials had the power to "kill" Adult Franklin. (And we also recently learned -- thanks to Hickman -- that AF did not die after he bull-rushed the final Mad Celestial) Nathaniel only said that AF could not "beat" them alone. We still don't know for sure if Galactus himself was killed or left in a comatose state at their hands when he first encountered them. We do, however, know that both Adult Franklin and Galactus were able to defeat 2 Celestials individually, which is an impressive feat in itself. The rest of your statement I agree with.
Sue : "Can he win?"

Nathaniel : "Just Franklin by himself against all the 3 remaining Celestials ?"

Sue : "Yes . Can he ?"

Nathaniel : "No ."

I think it is pretty clear from this dialogue that Franklin(who had already expended some of his power in holding up that collapse of multiple timelines) would have lost to the MCs had he proceeded to engage them solo .

Had he conserved all his power prior to this engagement , he might have been able to take them on on his own(like the 4 planet-amped Galactus did) , however that belongs to the realm of speculation .

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Those Celestials survived shots from from alternate UNs on more than two occasions . The second time 4280-Eson tanked a point blank hit from the UN before the Reed holding it lost focus .

The IGs and UNs were represented in such a fashion that they were all shown to be equal in terms of their power . That is what Hickman intended with their portrayal . I don't like what Hickman ended up doing in that arc(importing that scene of Darkseid's IG being non-functional from the DC crossover), but it is what it is .

The same Tiamut who got taken over by Mr Sinister and couldn't even fight off his possession(unlike Ghaur) ?

Going by feats , the Mad Celestials are even more powerful than the 616 Celestials(barring Scathan) . Going by writer statements , they are equals to their 616 counterparts . You don't have to like it , but again , it is what it is .


Yup, I don't get why people want to keep downplaying this Galactus showing versus the Celestials. Check that, I do know but it's not cool. mad

Doon
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Sue : "Can he win?"

Nathaniel : "Just Franklin by himself against all the 3 remaining Celestials ?"

Sue : "Yes . Can he ?"

Nathaniel : "No ."

I think it is pretty clear from this dialogue that Franklin(who had already expended some of his power in holding up that collapse of multiple timelines) would have lost to the MCs had he proceeded to engage them solo .

Had he conserved all his power prior to this engagement , he might have been able to take them on on his own(like the 4 planet-amped Galactus did) , however that belongs to the realm of speculation .

That's a really good point about AF expending some of his power prior to encountering the Mad Celestials, something I considered myself. The fact that they used words like "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival certainly goes well with your theory. While on the subject of speculation, it would also have been interesting to see how Galactus would have fared against the Mad Celestials individually had they not combined. I know that's been discussed already, but we honestly don't know for sure if the outcome would have been a whole lot different not to mention by how much.

Doon
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It was Reed whom they killed . Adult FR's battle was the one variable that never happened in any of those alternate iterations of that particular event(Reed's death at the hands of the MCs) . Galactus coming , the Sol's Anvil being fired were constants though .

Kid Frankie's power was used only for recharging Galactus .

Exactly. Although Nathaniel certainly knew and experienced quite a lot, Adult Franklin and Adult Valeria had their own little plan, which they kept a secret from their grandfather. "Every boy deserves a father" followed by a swift kick to the face. Sorry grandpa. We're trying something different this time.

By the way, have you seen the new preview inks for Bagley's run on Fantastic Four? Looks like Fraction will be exploring young Franklin's precognitive dreams again. Hmm. Not sure what to make of that, but the art looks decent.

Link here: http://marvel.com/news/story/19445/first_look_fantastic_four_1

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Doon
That's a really good point about AF expending some of his power prior to encountering the Mad Celestials, something I considered myself. The fact that they used words like "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival certainly goes well with your theory. While on the subject of speculation, it would also have been interesting to see how Galactus would have fared against the Mad Celestials individually had they not combined. I know that's been discussed already, but we honestly don't know for sure if the outcome would have been a whole lot different not to mention by how much.
How 4planet-roided-Galactus would have fared individually against the MCs ? He already showed that he was capable of killing one solo , and shrugging off the combined assault of the them as a team .

Honestly speaking in that state he would have eventually beaten them all , had the remaining MCs not snatched up on the opportunity to use the dead MC's body to merge into their Voltron-like state .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Doon
Exactly. Although Nathaniel certainly knew and experienced quite a lot, Adult Franklin and Adult Valeria had their own little plan, which they kept a secret from their grandfather. "Every boy deserves a father" followed by a swift kick to the face. Sorry grandpa. We're trying something different this time.

By the way, have you seen the new preview inks for Bagley's run on Fantastic Four? Looks like Fraction will be exploring young Franklin's precognitive dreams again. Hmm. Not sure what to make of that, but the art looks decent.

Link here: http://marvel.com/news/story/19445/first_look_fantastic_four_1
Meh , inks don't satisfy me . Once the coloring has been done , then I'll bother to look at it .

But still , from the looks of it , it doesn't really look like precog . Two reasons :
1.For one that would imply that Fraction has in-depth knowledge of the character's history . The chances of a square-circle existing are more likely .
2.Fraction's run is centered around the idea that Reed builds a machine that takes him and his family backwards in time , throughout different eras all the way back to the Big Bang . Those particular scans might just be indications of the FF's first adventure being set in the Jurassic Era .

I am only going to bother collecting Fraction's run for battleboard style discussions . Or use the free spoiler scans people on herochat post .

Doon
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How 4planet-roided-Galactus would have fared individually against the MCs ? He already showed that he was capable of killing one solo , and shrugging off the combined assault of the them as a team .

Honestly speaking in that state he would have eventually beaten them all , had the remaining MCs not snatched up on the opportunity to use the dead MC's body to merge into their Voltron-like state .

That's just speculation, though, because we didn't see him defeat all 4 individually on panel. Regardless of how strong your points may or may not be, it's just conjecture. Shrugging off their assault isn't quite the same as taking each one out -- one by one.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkOdin
You keep on saying their 616 counter parts but which 616 celestial??

tiamat scared the pants off Galactus when he awaken he was shown to take on multiple celestials on his own.

And they didn't with stand the IG the one that got blasted was taken out, and then killed the one reed who was letting him use the IG, And if i remember correctly the reed using th UN it didn't work which based on that fact that version of the UN was <<<< then the 616 version.

The 616 Celestials as a race, the feats that they have performed. I don't look at Arishem and then at Eson, I look at what the race as a whole has archived in their comic history, and that tells me that 4280 = 616 Celestials, just as Hickman stated.

And this is important for you to point out because it to you shows the difference between the Celestials individual powerlevel? May I remind you that the only Celestial that Tiamut actually managed to incapacitate was Arishem, by a surprise attack no less, he lost the fight against the rest.

The Reed that used the IG, managed to defeat 3-4 Celestials by using the IG, not the whole lot, which is something we actually expect that a wielder of the IG should be able to handle without major problems. The UN worked fine, it backed fired on Reed and killed him after the beam had struck the 4280 Celestial. I don't really care that the 616>>> alternate UN's when the alternate UN's have still been shown in atleast three cases as being universal in their scale, which still means that a weapon that is capable of destroying universes was ineffective against a 4280 Celestial.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
That's just speculation, though, because we didn't see him defeat all 4 individually on panel. Regardless of how strong your points may or may not be, it's just conjecture. Shrugging off their assault isn't quite the same as taking each one out -- one by one.

The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

Again, though, that's just an assumption based on what was shown. They obviously had problems taking him on. That still doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he could have defeated them all singlehandedly. It only shows that they considered him a very worthy challenge similar to the way they viewed AF as a threat by using the words 'danger' and 'doom' upon his arrival. That said, it's possible you may be right; it's just that we don't know for certain.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by Doon
Again, though, that's just an assumption based on what was shown. They obviously had problems taking him on. That still doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he could have defeated them all singlehandedly. It only shows that they considered him a very worthy challenge similar to the way they viewed AF as a threat by using the words 'danger' and 'doom' upon his arrival. That said, it's possible you may be right; it's just that we don't know for certain.

This is true, but to me this scene is a bit more solid than Tiamut making Galactus "quake in his boots".

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Utrigita
The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.
They needed to use the body of their dead comrade to merge though .

Also, they supposedly merged once before as well, when dealing with somewhat a lesser threat(imo) than a 4world-beefed-Galactus.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Utrigita
The 616 Celestials as a race, the feats that they have performed. I don't look at Arishem and then at Eson, I look at what the race as a whole has archived in their comic history, and that tells me that 4280 = 616 Celestials, just as Hickman stated.

And this is important for you to point out because it to you shows the difference between the Celestials individual powerlevel? May I remind you that the only Celestial that Tiamut actually managed to incapacitate was Arishem, by a surprise attack no less, he lost the fight against the rest.

The Reed that used the IG, managed to defeat 3-4 Celestials by using the IG, not the whole lot, which is something we actually expect that a wielder of the IG should be able to handle without major problems. The UN worked fine, it backed fired on Reed and killed him after the beam had struck the 4280 Celestial. I don't really care that the 616>>> alternate UN's when the alternate UN's have still been shown in atleast three cases as being universal in their scale, which still means that a weapon that is capable of destroying universes was ineffective against a 4280 Celestial.
thumb up

Btw, since people are lowballing alternate UNs here, lets not forget that an alternate UN on-panel deleted the Mistress Death of its universe from existence .

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

As per Hickman, Galactus would not have been able to defeat them either way. Another mystery solved.

Link below:

http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

MrAnathema:

Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.

Jonathan Hickman:

Response: No.

DarkSaint85
Lol he's gonna start trolling you soon.

I do like your debate style though. Go straight to the source.

Doon
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I do like your debate style though. Go straight to the source.

Thanks. It was pretty courteous of Hickman to respond again -- this time specifically regarding Galactus and his first encounter w/ the 4280 Celestials.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol he's gonna start trolling you soon.
From all the responses of his that I've read, he doesn't appear to hold fans in as much disdain as people like Brevoort and Quesada do.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Utrigita
The 616 Celestials as a race, the feats that they have performed. I don't look at Arishem and then at Eson, I look at what the race as a whole has archived in their comic history, and that tells me that 4280 = 616 Celestials, just as Hickman stated.

And this is important for you to point out because it to you shows the difference between the Celestials individual powerlevel? May I remind you that the only Celestial that Tiamut actually managed to incapacitate was Arishem, by a surprise attack no less, he lost the fight against the rest.

The Reed that used the IG, managed to defeat 3-4 Celestials by using the IG, not the whole lot, which is something we actually expect that a wielder of the IG should be able to handle without major problems. The UN worked fine, it backed fired on Reed and killed him after the beam had struck the 4280 Celestial. I don't really care that the 616>>> alternate UN's when the alternate UN's have still been shown in atleast three cases as being universal in their scale, which still means that a weapon that is capable of destroying universes was ineffective against a 4280 Celestial.

The Ig reed used was shown to be useless when not in its on universe, Reed had to use the one of the other reed just to power it. Oppose to the 616 IG which if iam not mistaken destoryed all the universes. didn't it not??

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Doon
As per Hickman, Galactus would not have been able to defeat them either way. Another mystery solved.

Link below:

http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

MrAnathema:

Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.

Jonathan Hickman:

Response: No.

With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by DarkOdin
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.

Nah, Thor took multiple hits too and didn't go down. By your logic, Thor is more powerful than uber Destroyer. It doesn't work that way.

Doon
Originally posted by DarkOdin
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.

To be fair, Galactus (like Adult Franklin) was still able to destroy a couple of Celestials though -- even though he couldn't take down all of them singlehandedly. That's still a pretty impressive feat in my book. Destroyer, on the other hand, was unable to defeat ANY members of the 4th Host. He chopped off one of their arms, but it grew right back instantaneously.

Also some of the gods and amps listed by the original poster would have little to no effect on Big G. Heimdall? Skuttlebutt? Belt of Strength? Really? The strongest contenders in that group, in my opinion, would be Odin, Zeus, Bor, and Gaea.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkOdin
The Ig reed used was shown to be useless when not in its on universe, Reed had to use the one of the other reed just to power it. Oppose to the 616 IG which if iam not mistaken destoryed all the universes. didn't it not??

No it didn't, and Reed with the powered IG was still incapable of defeating more then three or four Celestials with it, iirc.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
As per Hickman, Galactus would not have been able to defeat them either way. Another mystery solved.

Link below:

http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

MrAnathema:

Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.

Jonathan Hickman:

Response: No.

And then my automatic followup to Hickman would be, why did they then merge? Someone asked earlier if you should always automatically agree with a writer here is a example where I think what Hickman showed on panel, goes against what he is stating. But that is just my opinion.

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
And then my automatic followup to Hickman would be, why did they then merge? Someone asked earlier if you should always automatically agree with a writer here is a example where I think what Hickman showed on panel, goes against what he is stating. But that is just my opinion.

Well, the fact that they merged NEVER meant, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Galactus had the power to defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials; that's just the way you and some others interpreted the comic. (I obviously was more open-minded to other possibilities; and Hickman confirmed what I suspected.) In my opinion, the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a threat. Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival.

Anyway, I'm fine with Hickman's response; and I asked him plenty of questions already. He said, "No". Like Godkiller mentioned to someone else regarding another response from JH, you may not like it, but it is what it is.

keiththegreat
It's like saying just because Thor used a thunderbolt to beat someone, he couldn't do it if he didn't use a thunderbolt. Just because the Celestials used a certain method to defeat Galactus, doesn't mean they couldn't do it without that method.

Also, their power is still the same, just merged into one being rather than spread out.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Utrigita
No it didn't, and Reed with the powered IG was still incapable of defeating more then three or four Celestials with it, iirc. And Thanos with the IG was able to take every high end comicsbeing minus the LT with the 616IG which only goes to prove how lesser the IG Reed use was.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkOdin
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.
This version of Galactus had enough power to kill a Celestial , even while he was being assaulted by other Celestials(and not be depleted by the battle) , something a more powerful version of this Destroyer failed to do .

Most of the team are mere trans-tier characters(along with a skyfather) who'll get one-shotted without much problems , with one Elder God and one amped skyfather(apart from Odin) being the only ones who stand a chance . In the end they too will go down .

DarkOdin
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This version of Galactus had enough power to kill a Celestial , even while he was being assaulted by other Celestials(and not be depleted by the battle) , something a more powerful version of this Destroyer failed to do .

Most of the team are mere trans-tier characters(along with a skyfather) who'll get one-shotted without much problems , with one Elder God and one amped skyfather(apart from Odin) being the only ones who stand a chance . In the end they too will go down . Iam sorry this ImO is incorrect. The destroyer armour took a blast from the entire fourth host to finally be put down. and multi blast it still managed to fight fine. Odin with out the armour gave Galactus lots of trouble.

Gaea
Marvel Ares with Twilight Sword
Bor
Odin with Destroyer Armor and Odinsword
Thor with Belt of strength, magic gauntlets, Odin force shield
Zeus

With the group above I can't see galactus winning this at all. If anything Odin engaging galactus would be trouble. Let alone getting pounded on by the other above plus the guys be;pw. The odds are greatly stack for the team.

This is has some great amps on it side heck that version of Thor beat a highly amped Thanos clone.

It not the gods that make me think the Gods win it is the weapons they are using plus there already high stats

Loki
Classic Hercules with Mace
Perun
Beta Ray Bill and Skuttlebutt
Thunderstrike
Bast
Heimdall

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Iam sorry this ImO is incorrect. The destroyer armour took a blast from the entire fourth host to finally be put down. and multi blast it still managed to fight fine. Odin with out the armour gave Galactus lots of trouble.

Gaea
Marvel Ares with Twilight Sword
Bor
Odin with Destroyer Armor and Odinsword
Thor with Belt of strength, magic gauntlets, Odin force shield
Zeus

With the group above I can't see galactus winning this at all. If anything Odin engaging galactus would be trouble. Let alone getting pounded on by the other above plus the guys be;pw. The odds are greatly stack for the team.

This is has some great amps on it side heck that version of Thor beat a highly amped Thanos clone.

It not the gods that make me think the Gods win it is the weapons they are using plus there already high stats

Loki
Classic Hercules with Mace
Perun
Beta Ray Bill and Skuttlebutt
Thunderstrike
Bast
Heimdall
How is any of it incorrect at all ? The Destroyer on-panel failed to do any lasting damage to any of the Celestials it was fighting .
Nope , after the Celestials were done playing and blasted it together , they reduced it to slag . It didn't manage to "fight fine" even during multi-blast . It was on-panel also shown to be a little weaker than individual members as one Celestial(I believe it was Ziran) was able to restrain it with relative ease . You're also ignoring the fact that the Destroyer was aided by the Uni-Mind(which got instantly one-shotted) in the initial phase of their battle , a privilege that Galactus didn't enjoy as he had to engage them solo .

Galactus VS Celestials was a great showing for Galactus . Odin/Destroyer VS Celestials was sheer disrespect towards the Earth Gods . It doesn't take a genius to figure out that two plus two equals four .

The Galactus in this thread is far more well-fed than the one whom Odin supposedly gave trouble . And what lots of trouble are you talking about anyways ? Even after Thor's cheap shot , Odin was the first to relent , and after the whole fiasco was over he admitted that he lacked the strength to keep up with Galactus .

You keep talking about the team's amps , yet you deliberately miss the point that Galactus is amped as well , on a great diet of 4 worlds . This is one of the most powerful canon versions of Galactus shown on-panel . Odin by himself has to summon the Destroyer armor to even out the scales against a much weaker version of Galactus , against this version of Galactus , the team doesn't stand much of a chance .

On-panel , this version of Galactus no-sold mutiple nega-bombs from a Kree fleet that was overwhelming Johnny's Annihilation Wave , just prior to his confrontation with the Celestials :
http://imageshack.us/a/img836/5117/galactusnosellsnegabomb.th.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img32/5117/galactusnosellsnegabomb.th.jpg

Galactus takes this battle with no more effort than what he required to put down a Celestial .

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkOdin
And Thanos with the IG was able to take every high end comicsbeing minus the LT with the 616IG which only goes to prove how lesser the IG Reed use was.

No matter how lesser they are, they are still universal. Nothing will change that.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
Well, the fact that they merged NEVER meant, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Galactus had the power to defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials; that's just the way you and some others interpreted the comic. (I obviously was more open-minded to other possibilities; and Hickman confirmed what I suspected.) In my opinion, the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a threat. Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival.

Anyway, I'm fine with Hickman's response; and I asked him plenty of questions already. He said, "No". Like Godkiller mentioned to someone else regarding another response from JH, you may not like it, but it is what it is.

Yes, that is how I feel about the confrontation between the Celestials and Galactus and what course of action the Celestials afterwards choosed to follow. I feel they merged in order to defeat Galactus, just like Hickman feels that Galactus wouldn't have been capable of defeating 3 or four of them.

True I never said that, but as I also said earlier, I'm fine with writers stating this and that, but ultimately I like what they are stating to be backed up by on panel evidence, lets assume a writer said that Rhino could beat Thor, no one on this board would take such a statement seriously because the statement lacks the on panel evidence to be valid.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes, that is how I feel about the confrontation between the Celestials and Galactus and what course of action the Celestials afterwards choosed to follow. I feel they merged in order to defeat Galactus, just like Hickman feels that Galactus wouldn't have been capable of defeating 3 or four of them.

True I never said that, but as I also said earlier, I'm fine with writers stating this and that, but ultimately I like what they are stating to be backed up by on panel evidence, lets assume a writer said that Rhino could beat Thor, no one on this board would take such a statement seriously because the statement lacks the on panel evidence to be valid.
They merged once one had been killed , using the slain Celestial's intact body as some sort of conduit for the merger . Its not like they merged to fight Galactus from the get-go . Once Galactus killed one , they took advantage of the situation and used its body to combine . Sols Anvil ripped apart the body of that Celestial , and the Celestials didn't bother to use it again . Future Franklin also seemingly destroyed the body of the first Celestial whom he killed , and again the Celestials were won't to try and repeat their procedure .

Celestials merging is an entirely new concept as Galan pointed out in another thread . We don't know exactly how much power is used for the merger , what are the conditions under which said merge takes place(i.e do they always use the body of a fallen comrade to merge?) , or for how exactly long the merge can be sustained . They had supposedly merged once before , but the exact circumstances/context under which this merge took place is unknown .

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes, that is how I feel about the confrontation between the Celestials and Galactus and what course of action the Celestials afterwards choosed to follow. I feel they merged in order to defeat Galactus, just like Hickman feels that Galactus wouldn't have been capable of defeating 3 or four of them.

True I never said that, but as I also said earlier, I'm fine with writers stating this and that, but ultimately I like what they are stating to be backed up by on panel evidence, lets assume a writer said that Rhino could beat Thor, no one on this board would take such a statement seriously because the statement lacks the on panel evidence to be valid.

You missed my point -- almost entirely. Like I said before, the fact that the Celestials merged NEVER MEANT that Galactus had the ability to defeat all 3 or 4 of them. Your opinion, which you're obviously entitled to, is based on conjecture rather than "on-panel evidence". Now, if Galactus actually HAD managed to defeat all of the Celestials singlehandedly, then you would be correct in saying that Hickman's statement doesn't reflect what happened on-panel. You can't say that though because Galactus never beat them all individually; you just assumed he could.

Secondly, Hickman is the author of F4# 604; it's his brainchild! So, if he says that Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials (without aid) in HIS story; then they couldn't. It's really that simple. That said, Galactus' showing was still pretty impressive. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
You missed my point -- almost entirely. Like I said before, the fact that the Celestials merged NEVER MEANT that Galactus had the ability to defeat all 3 or 4 of them. Your opinion, which you're obviously entitled to, is based on conjecture rather than "on-panel evidence". Now, if Galactus actually HAD managed to defeat all of the Celestials singlehandedly, then you would be correct in saying that Hickman's statement doesn't reflect what happened on-panel. You can't say that though because Galactus never beat them all individually; you just assumed he could.

Secondly, Hickman is the author of F4# 604; it's his brainchild! So, if he says that Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials (without aid) in HIS story; then they couldn't. It's really that simple. That said, Galactus' showing was still pretty impressive. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Lets recall that your fact isn't based on what happened on panel either, but are based on a statement from a writer, who on panel choosed to have the Celestials merge to combat Galactus. My opinion is that they merged to defeat Galactus your opinion is that they didn't. It's that simple. Yes I assumed he would, because they merge. We perceive the merge as a sign of two entirely different situations. I see it as a sign of desperation from the Celestials, what you see it as I have no idea about, but obviously not the same.

But is it supported on panel, did the 3 or 4 Celestials defeat him seperated from each other? No they didn't, which is why Hickman also states that he feels(!) Galactus couldn't have defeated them, because on panel it wasn't shown that they had the capacity. If you really want to end this discussion just ask Hickman why he choosed to have three Celestials merge, when he feels that the Celestials could still have defeated Galactus. Because atm there is a situation, where yes Hickman states that Galactus couldn't have defeated the Celestials individually, yet he choosed to have them merge in his comic book, a merge that obviously increased their power tremendously. The merge simply appears unneeded to me if the Celestials could have defeated Galactus without it, and that is where the main difference in our opinion is. I see the merge as required move for the Celestials to emerge victorious.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How is any of it incorrect at all ? The Destroyer on-panel failed to do any lasting damage to any of the Celestials it was fighting .
Nope , after the Celestials were done playing and blasted it together , they reduced it to slag . It didn't manage to "fight fine" even during multi-blast . It was on-panel also shown to be a little weaker than individual members as one Celestial(I believe it was Ziran) was able to restrain it with relative ease . You're also ignoring the fact that the Destroyer was aided by the Uni-Mind(which got instantly one-shotted) in the initial phase of their battle , a privilege that Galactus didn't enjoy as he had to engage them solo .

Galactus VS Celestials was a great showing for Galactus . Odin/Destroyer VS Celestials was sheer disrespect towards the Earth Gods . It doesn't take a genius to figure out that two plus two equals four .

The Galactus in this thread is far more well-fed than the one whom Odin supposedly gave trouble . And what lots of trouble are you talking about anyways ? Even after Thor's cheap shot , Odin was the first to relent , and after the whole fiasco was over he admitted that he lacked the strength to keep up with Galactus .

You keep talking about the team's amps , yet you deliberately miss the point that Galactus is amped as well , on a great diet of 4 worlds . This is one of the most powerful canon versions of Galactus shown on-panel . Odin by himself has to summon the Destroyer armor to even out the scales against a much weaker version of Galactus , against this version of Galactus , the team doesn't stand much of a chance .

On-panel , this version of Galactus no-sold mutiple nega-bombs from a Kree fleet that was overwhelming Johnny's Annihilation Wave , just prior to his confrontation with the Celestials :
http://imageshack.us/a/img836/5117/galactusnosellsnegabomb.th.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img32/5117/galactusnosellsnegabomb.th.jpg

Galactus takes this battle with no more effort than what he required to put down a Celestial .

Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
Lets recall that your fact isn't based on what happened on panel either, but are based on a statement from a writer, who on panel choosed to have the Celestials merge to combat Galactus. My opinion is that they merged to defeat Galactus your opinion is that they didn't. It's that simple. Yes I assumed he would, because they merge. We perceive the merge as a sign of two entirely different situations. I see it as a sign of desperation from the Celestials, what you see it as I have no idea about, but obviously not the same.

But is it supported on panel, did the 3 or 4 Celestials defeat him seperated from each other? No they didn't, which is why Hickman also states that he feels(!) Galactus couldn't have defeated them, because on panel it wasn't shown that they had the capacity. If you really want to end this discussion just ask Hickman why he choosed to have three Celestials merge, when he feels that the Celestials could still have defeated Galactus. Because atm there is a situation, where yes Hickman states that Galactus couldn't have defeated the Celestials individually, yet he choosed to have them merge in his comic book, a merge that obviously increased their power tremendously. The merge simply appears unneeded to me if the Celestials could have defeated Galactus without it, and that is where the main difference in our opinion is. I see the merge as required move for the Celestials to emerge victorious.

Here is what we saw on-panel: Galactus engaged with the Celestials. Galactus attacked one of the Celestials with eye beams. NOTE: They, however, DID NOT initially use "concussion beams" in their assault. They ONLY grappled with him. When they merged, that's when they chose to attack him with a concussion beam; and that's when he fell. That's what we saw on-panel. So, in my opinion, had they individually assaulted Galactus with "concussion beams", he would have gone down eventually -- although not as quickly. The fact that WE DID NOT SEE GALACTUS DEFEAT THEM INDIVIDUALLY obviously left room for speculation, which is why we're having this discussion. And that's why I approached the author in the first place because -- when you have ROOM for speculation -- it's sometimes necessary to go straight to the source.

I have a question for you. You are aware that Galactus isn't a real person, right?? You're acting as if Galactus is a living creature who could have still won against the Celestials EVEN THOUGH the author of the story said he feels that such is not the case. What Hickman "feels" about the story is significant and holds much more weight than both of our viewpoints. Why? Because F4# 603 is HIS STORY. Everything that happened in that story was based on how he "feels" about the characters and such. We're not talking about a REAL LIFE EVENT; but that's how you're treating it. Like it or not, in Hickman's story, had they not merged, Galactus would have STILL fallen against the Mad Celestials. If the story was written by another author w/ his/her own thoughts and feelings about Marvel universe characters, then perhaps the outcome would be different. Based on how YOU FEEL, the outcome would, of course, be different. You didn't write the back though. Neither did I. I just happen to be on the same page with the guy who wrote the book. I was right about a lot of things, as you can see by Hickman's responses below.

http://4ms.me/SbOIaO
http://4ms.me/NKKpvE
http://4ms.me/NMNuLE
http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

In my opinion, his latest response settles this. Since you're the one who can't accept his answer (which is clear enough for me), you're welcome to reach out to him yourself. He's usually pretty good at getting back to people. I find that it helps to make your questions as clear as possible.

Doon
I tell you what, Utrigita. I'll go ahead and ask him this last question on your behalf. At this point, he might tell me to f-off though, but we'll see. lol

EDIT: Question asked. I'll let you know if/when he responds to it.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
Here is what we saw on-panel: Galactus engaged with the Celestials. Galactus attacked one of the Celestials with eye beams. NOTE: They, however, DID NOT initially use "concussion beams" in their assault. They ONLY grappled with him. When they merged, that's when they chose to attack him with a concussion beam; and that's when he fell. That's what we saw on-panel. So, in my opinion, had they individually assaulted Galactus with "concussion beams", he would have gone down eventually -- although not as quickly. The fact that WE DID NOT SEE GALACTUS DEFEAT THEM INDIVIDUALLY obviously left room for speculation, which is why we're having this discussion. And that's why I approached the author in the first place because -- when you have ROOM for speculation -- it's sometimes necessary to go straight to the source.

I have a question for you. You are aware that Galactus isn't a real person, right?? You're acting as if Galactus is a living creature who could have still won against the Celestials EVEN THOUGH the author of the story said he feels that such is not the case. What Hickman "feels" about the story is significant and holds much more weight than both of our viewpoints. Why? Because F4# 603 is HIS STORY. Everything that happened in that story was based on how he "feels" about the characters and such. We're not talking about a REAL LIFE EVENT; but that's how you're treating it. Like it or not, in Hickman's story, had they not merged, Galactus would have STILL fallen against the Mad Celestials. If the story was written by another author w/ his/her own thoughts and feelings about Marvel universe characters, then perhaps the outcome would be different. Based on how YOU FEEL, the outcome would, of course, be different. You didn't write the back though. Neither did I. I just happen to be on the same page with the guy who wrote the book. I was right about a lot of things, as you can see by Hickman's responses below.

http://4ms.me/SbOIaO
http://4ms.me/NKKpvE
http://4ms.me/NMNuLE
http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

In my opinion, his latest response settles this. Since you're the one who can't accept his answer (which is clear enough for me), you're welcome to reach out to him yourself. He's usually pretty good at getting back to people. I find that it helps to make your questions as clear as possible.

And the room is still there imo, because the door swings both ways, yes Galactus didn't defeat the Celestials on panel, but the Celestials unmerged didn't defeat Galactus either. What they could have done etc. is good and all but that doesn't change that the outcome of the confrontation between the Galactus and the last three Celestials wasn't shown on panel, unless I'm misising something about that engagement being shown on panel.

I'm well aware of that, what I'm pointing out is that a feeling doesn't equal fact, just because I feel a person is guilty of something doesn't make it fact. To me Hickman is doing the same here (I have a feeling) as he did in regards to that rather fluffy answer he gave you one time (can't recall the exact question) where he asked you what you thought. But that is just my opinion.

I have no problem with acknowledge his answer, I have a problem with his answer imo not being supported with on panel evidence, and that is really it. Sure I will use his answer, state it, link to it but I don't have to agree with it in the slightest. Same way as I highly dislike a UN having zero effect on a Celestial yet that is the way things are.

What I'm merely asking people to be cautios against is taking writer statements as the end all and be all. If Hickman said that he felt the mad Celestials could defeat the Living Tribunal, I hope to God none would take such a statement seriously, for the exact same reason that people are laughing at the writer stating that OF Thor would lose to Hulk.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
I tell you what, Utrigita. I'll go ahead and ask him this last question on your behalf. At this point, he might tell me to f-off though, but we'll see. lol

EDIT: Question asked. I'll let you know if/when he responds to it.

Cool.

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm well aware of that, what I'm pointing out is that a feeling doesn't equal fact, just because I feel a person is guilty of something doesn't make it fact. To me Hickman is doing the same here (I have a feeling) as he did in regards to that rather fluffy answer he gave you one time (can't recall the exact question) where he asked you what you thought. But that is just my opinion.

To be fair, Hickman wasn't the one who used the word "feel" -- I was. He just said, "No", which, to me, is pretty clear. And again, his thoughts and feelings regarding the book are more significant than mine since he was the one who wrote it. That said, if he had responded, "How do YOU FEEL about it?", that would have been a "fluffy" answer in my opinion.

Yeah, I once asked him if Galactus was killed or just left in a comatose state by the Mad Celestials. He didn't want to touch that one. Godkiller jinxed that particular question for me though. lol

Power Cosmic II
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

One celestial was too much for the destroyer. Do the scans need to be posted showing the armor being completely impotent. ONE celestial completely no sold a full blast from the destroyer beam with a casual gesture. They were toying with the destroyer and then proceeded to fukc it up authoritatively. By the way you post you make it seem as if the entire 4th host had to combine its powers to even slow it down.

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
I have no problem with acknowledge his answer, I have a problem with his answer imo not being supported with on panel evidence, and that is really it. Sure I will use his answer, state it, link to it but I don't have to agree with it in the slightest. Same way as I highly dislike a UN having zero effect on a Celestial yet that is the way things are.

What I'm merely asking people to be cautios against is taking writer statements as the end all and be all. If Hickman said that he felt the mad Celestials could defeat the Living Tribunal, I hope to God none would take such a statement seriously, for the exact same reason that people are laughing at the writer stating that OF Thor would lose to Hulk.

The questions I've asked of Hickman pertain strictly to the events which took place in his F4/FF run -- mostly F4# 603 and 604. So your point about Mad Celestials and The Living Tribunal makes no sense since he never wrote a story where those two characters interacted with each other. Asking a writer about his/her thoughts on a random subject he has nothing/little to do with is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT to requesting clarification on a story he/she wrote.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
The questions I've asked of Hickman pertain strictly to the events which took place in his F4/FF run -- mostly F4# 603 and 604. So your point about Mad Celestials and The Living Tribunal makes no sense since he never wrote a story where those two characters interacted with each other. Asking a writer about his/her thoughts on a random subject he has nothing/little to do with is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT to requesting clarification on a story he/she wrote.

It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it, and apply your own line of logic, technically none should know the Mad Celestials better then Hickman, so he if anybody should know their capacity it would be him, so if he said Mad Celestials > LT what is merely a example on my part, how then would you treat it? What I'm advocating is merely caution when using writers, Hickman is merely a perfect example atm.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

The Destroyer couldn't stand against one Celestial.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.
What game ? Its clear that you have forgotten how that battle played out . One Celestial was stronger than a MORE POWERFUL version of the Destroyer as proven on-panel . One Celestial failed to even so much as make this version of Galactus sweat a bit to kill it .

Btw , the Destroyer went up against 3 individual Celestials before being gang-banged :
Against Nezzar , it failed to do any lasting damage .
Against Ziran , it got easily physically outmatched .
Against Tefral , it got disarmed .

Once all of the above was done , the rest of the Celestials joined the fray , with Arishem's approval , and gang-raped the Destroyer .As was mentioned before , the Odin/Destroyer VS Celestials showing was sheer disrespect towards the Earth Gods . Lets not try and change that fact to something its not .

Also , your Destroyer had a weapon and an ally , and yet it performed miserably against the 4th Host . The moment Galactus got his own ally , his Celestial opponents were royally phucked .

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it, and apply your own line of logic, technically none should know the Mad Celestials better then Hickman, so he if anybody should know their capacity it would be him, so if he said Mad Celestials > LT what is merely a example on my part, how then would you treat it?

Asking an author for clarification on certain events which take place in a story he wrote for a particular comic, in this case F4#603, is still not the same thing as asking about random characters that have nothing to do with the aforementioned story. And they should be treated differently. F4#603 = ONE STORY based on Hickman's perception of the Marvel universe; and that's what I've been requesting clarification on. Sure, I could ask him about the Living Tribunal, but LT has nothing to do with the story Hickman wrote. So, while I might value his opinion about the LT (depending on what it is), I would never opt to use it in a discussion pertaining to F4# 603 unless LT was, in some way, involved. By reaching out to the author, my intent has been to gain clarity on a particular aspect of A STORYLINE HE CREATED -- not his view of unrelated topics.

Doon
Originally posted by Utrigita
If you really want to end this discussion just ask Hickman why he choosed to have three Celestials merge, when he feels that the Celestials could still have defeated Galactus.

J.Hickman responded.

http://4ms.me/U4Iomh

MrAnathema asks:
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Hickman responds:
He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him.

There you have it. And this response pretty much supports what I said earlier on in this thread. He even used the word DAMAGE just like I did.
Here's what I said before:
"Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival."

Although Galactus couldn't stop ALL the Celestials individually, he still had the potential to hurt one or more of them.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Doon
J.Hickman responded.

http://4ms.me/U4Iomh

MrAnathema asks:
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Hickman responds:
He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him.

There you have it. And this response pretty much supports what I said earlier on in this thread. He even used the word DAMAGE just like I did.
Here's what I said before:
"Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival."

Although Galactus couldn't stop ALL the Celestials individually, he still had the potential to hurt one or more of them.

Cool.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Doon
J.Hickman responded.

http://4ms.me/U4Iomh

MrAnathema asks:
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Hickman responds:
He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him.

There you have it. And this response pretty much supports what I said earlier on in this thread. He even used the word DAMAGE just like I did.
Here's what I said before:
"Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival."

Although Galactus couldn't stop ALL the Celestials individually, he still had the potential to hurt one or more of them. So know iam confused did Galactus kill the first celestial or just knocked him out. i was under the impression he killed it but the writer makes it sound like he didn't/couldn't

zopzop
Originally posted by DarkOdin
So know iam confused did Galactus kill the first celestial or just knocked him out. i was under the impression he killed it but the writer makes it sound like he didn't/couldn't
Apparently it was only a KO. You'll notice when Voltron was hit by Sol's Anvil, it WRECKED the KOed Celestials body and broke Voltron apart and they couldn't combine again. If Galactus killed that Celestial, then they wouldn't be able to form Voltron in the first place.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by zopzop
Apparently it was only a KO. You'll notice when Voltron was hit by Sol's Anvil, it WRECKED the KOed Celestials body and broke Voltron apart and they couldn't combine again. If Galactus killed that Celestial, then they wouldn't be able to form Voltron in the first place.

Already discussed here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562045.html

I don't think Hickman's comments can any way, shape or form discredit what Galactus was able to accomplish against the Celestials or what he can do to the team specified in the OP.

Doon
Originally posted by DarkOdin
So know iam confused did Galactus kill the first celestial or just knocked him out. i was under the impression he killed it but the writer makes it sound like he didn't/couldn't

He defeated/killed the first Celestial and likely expended a great deal of energy in doing so. He couldn't take down the rest, though, but he still had the potential to inflict more damage upon them -- so they merged and "crushed him".

Doon
Originally posted by Tar-Antado
Already discussed here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562045.html

I don't think Hickman's comments can any way, shape or form discredit what Galactus was able to accomplish against the Celestials or what he can do to the team specified in the OP.

Big G defeated one Celestial. He couldn't kill/defeat the others though, but he still had the potential to cause them further damage. Although he couldn't defeat them all, the Celestials didn't want to sustain anymore damage -- so they merged and crushed him. Sorry, but Hickman's comments about his own story are significant. Get over it.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by Doon
Big G defeated one Celestial. He couldn't kill/defeat the others though, but he still had the potential to cause them further damage. Although he couldn't defeat them all, the Celestials didn't want to sustain anymore damage -- so they merged and crushed him. Sorry, but Hickman's comments about his own story are significant. Get over it.


I'm very cool with what Hickman revealed. Galactus was perceived as a threat to MC'sr plans and well being so they had to resort to what has to be assumed as their ultimate attack: Voltron. It was needed to eliminate Galactus as a threat. No shame in that, specially after getting a second chance from Franklin to help win the day, I just don't see Hickman's comments diminishing Galactus in any context,

Doon
Originally posted by Tar-Antado
I'm very cool with what Hickman revealed. Galactus was perceived as a threat to MC'sr plans and well being so they had to resort to what has to be assumed as their ultimate attack: Voltron. It was needed to eliminate Galactus as a threat. No shame in that, specially after getting a second chance from Franklin to help win the day, I just don't see Hickman's comments diminishing Galactus in any context,

Yeah, even though he wouldn't have been able to defeat them all individually, he would have still phucked them up to a certain extent. They couldn't allow that to happen.

And, yeah, I think it's great that JH takes the time to interact with fans the way he does. I mean.. who does that? smile

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Tar-Antado
Already discussed here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562045.html

I don't think Hickman's comments can any way, shape or form discredit what Galactus was able to accomplish against the Celestials or what he can do to the team specified in the OP. That thread really doesn't help basiclly every agrees he killed the celestial but must people agree that celestial power is different from celestial 2 celesital.

This bring me back to this unnamed counter parts.

We have seen that galactus is stronger then no name 616 celestials from the scene with the galactus engine.

But the odin destroyer is the big gun for the team, in which it fought the fourth host who all should be above the the 4 noname celestials,


We all know galactus is above odin, but judging from their battle the odin destoyer should be equal or imo greater the a well fed galactus by a good bit.

That plus all the other skyfathers/amped beings should be able to take galactus.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by DarkOdin
We have seen that galactus is stronger then no name 616 celestials from the scene with the galactus engine. Arishem and a couple other Celestials...
All of the Forth host was able to show up the Destroyer, and blow a hole through it. That doesn't help your case.

Also, Galactus appears to have tanked the Celestial's first attack to something I skimmed over earlier. Plus they fired on him again.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_020.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_021.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-03.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-04.jpg

That's at four planet level. After he was restored, he was able to be damaged by Eson, which seems to imply he was at "normal" levels again. Which makes sense considering he got phucked up the Merged Celestial and would have likely been drained.

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by DarkOdin
That thread really doesn't help basiclly every agrees he killed the celestial but must people agree that celestial power is different from celestial 2 celesital.

This bring me back to this unnamed counter parts.

We have seen that galactus is stronger then no name 616 celestials from the scene with the galactus engine.

But the odin destroyer is the big gun for the team, in which it fought the fourth host who all should be above the the 4 noname celestials,


We all know galactus is above odin, but judging from their battle the odin destoyer should be equal or imo greater the a well fed galactus by a good bit.

That plus all the other skyfathers/amped beings should be able to take galactus.

Ok I thought you said you were confused whether Galactus killed the Celestial or not.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
So know iam confused did Galactus kill the first celestial or just knocked him out. i was under the impression he killed it but the writer makes it sound like he didn't/couldn't

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Also, Galactus appears to have tanked the Celestial's first attack to something I skimmed over earlier. Plus they fired on him again.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_020.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_021.jpg

Pretty sure the Celestials only teleported to this location in that scene .
Similar to how future Franklin and Valeria appear on the scene and radiate with so much power , that their energy seems to be hitting the Celestials :
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/892/f4604pg03.th.jpg

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Pretty sure the Celestials only teleported to this location in that scene .
Similar to how future Franklin and Valeria appear on the scene and radiate with so much power , that their energy seems to be hitting the Celestials :
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/892/f4604pg03.th.jpg Galactus gets blown back by characters merely appearing?

How come nobody got blown back when the Celestials reappeared after Frank BFR'ed them?

Doon
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Pretty sure the Celestials only teleported to this location in that scene .
Similar to how future Franklin and Valeria appear on the scene and radiate with so much power , that their energy seems to be hitting the Celestials :
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/892/f4604pg03.th.jpg

Agreed.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Galactus gets blown back by characters merely appearing?
I already showed explained why with my scan . Not my fault Hickman gave Future Frank/Val along with the Celestials flashy entrances . Or that the mere act of summoning Galactus with the Ark caused Reed to scream in pain :
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/1990/f4602pg13.th.jpg

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
How come nobody got blown back when the Celestials reappeared after Frank BFR'ed them?
Probably the same reason none of them were threatened by the presence of the leaking radiation from the Gods there as well . Hickman intended them to be observers , not fatalities in his super-awesome battle .

Doon
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Galactus gets blown back by characters merely appearing?

How come nobody got blown back when the Celestials reappeared after Frank BFR'ed them?

Galactus wasn't blown back. He was just reacting to the overwhelming light. In my opinion, it was a little overdone, but hey.. artists aren't perfect. When Franklin and Valeria appeared, Sue shielded her face from the light as well. At the beginning of F4#603, the Celestials tried to verbally talk Galactus down before they attacked him. When he refused to stand aside, that's when they initiated their first attack.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I already showed explained why with my scan . Not my fault Hickman gave Future Frank/Val along with the Celestials flashy entrances . Or that the mere act of summoning Galactus with the Ark caused Reed to scream in pain :
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/1990/f4602pg13.th.jpg


Probably the same reason none of them were threatened by the presence of the leaking radiation from the Gods there as well . Hickman intended them to be observers , not fatalities in his super-awesome battle . What did you explain? That because Frank has a flashy entrance that Galactus should be blown back do to said flashy entrance when no character was in Frank's scene?

Reed was opening up a god damned wormhole in space...

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What did you explain? That because Frank has a flashy entrance that Galactus should be blown back do to said flashy entrance when no character was in Frank's scene?

Reed was opening up a god damned wormhole in space...
Look at that scan again . Frank's flashy entrance is hitting a Celestial(probably Eson in that panel) .

Reed was opening a wormhole in space , not on his hand . Or any other part of his body .

Doon
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What did you explain? That because Frank has a flashy entrance that Galactus should be blown back do to said flashy entrance when no character was in Frank's scene?

http://communicateordie.com/sites/communicateordie.com/files/images/facepalm.jpg

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Doon
Galactus wasn't blown back. He was just reacting to the overwhelming light. In my opinion, it was a little overdone, but hey.. artists aren't perfect. When Franklin and Valeria appeared, Sue shielded her face from the light as well. At the beginning of F4#603, the Celestials tried to verbally talk Galactus down before they attacked him. When he refused to stand aside, that's when they initiated their first attack. light is certainly what makes Galactus look like he's being shot by a blast while gritting his teeth.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_020.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-09.jpg

His reaction is almost the exact same as when he got hit by the merged Celestials.

Sue put her hand over above her eyes... because it was said to be light. We're supposed to believe Mr "I made a sun explode and then sat in it" is overwhelmed by light?
Then there's the fact that there was no such "light" made when they reappeared after Frank BFR'ed them...

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Look at that scan again . Frank's flashy entrance is hitting a Celestial(probably Eson in that panel) .

Reed was opening a wormhole in space , not on his hand . Or any other part of his body . Frank's flashy entrance was actually stated to be "light" though. And the reaction to it was Sue lazily putting her hand over her eye while staring directly into it. The Celestials didn't give a shit.

And he was right beside it...

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Doon
http://communicateordie.com/sites/communicateordie.com/files/images/facepalm.jpg I agree his statement is stupid.

Apparently because Frank had a flashy entrance that there's correlation between the Celestials appearing.

zopzop
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
light is certainly what makes Galactus look like he's being shot by a blast while gritting his teeth.
Galactus is a drama queen. Happy Dance

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus is a drama queen. Happy Dance A better statement then what they're going with for sure.

Doon
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I agree his statement is stupid.

Apparently because Frank had a flashy entrance that there's correlation between the Celestials appearing.

Umm.. it wasn't HIS statement that I was referring to. confused

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
light is certainly what makes Galactus look like he's being shot by a blast while gritting his teeth.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_020.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-09.jpg

His reaction is almost the exact same as when he got hit by the merged Celestials.

Gritting his teeth ? In the first scan his face is almost completely blurred by the light , so its difficult to see that what his facial expression is at all . Whether he is acting only in surprise or is he yelling with his mouth open(as is the case in second scan) is unknown .

Also , his armor is being blown up as well in second scan, while there is no indication of such a thing happening in first scan .

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Gritting his teeth ? In the first scan his face is almost completely blurred by the light , so its difficult to see that what his facial expression is at all . Whether he is acting only in surprise or is he yelling with his mouth open(as is the case in second scan) is unknown .

Also , his armor is being blown up as well in second scan, while there is no indication of such a thing happening in first scan . Sure looks like gritting his teeth on my end. Either way, his hands are also up as well.

Because he wasn't being shot by a being that could one shot him... maybe?
Ignore the part about his reaction being pretty much the same though.

There's also the part where you're ignoring the second set that show a Celestial shoot a blast, a big "explosion" on the screen, and Galactus wrestling the shit out of them without any damage.

Doon
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
light is certainly what makes Galactus look like he's being shot by a blast while gritting his teeth.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/Fantastic_4_602_020.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-09.jpg

His reaction is almost the exact same as when he got hit by the merged Celestials.

Sue put her hand over above her eyes... because it was said to be light. We're supposed to believe Mr "I made a sun explode and then sat in it" is overwhelmed by light?
Then there's the fact that there was no such "light" made when they reappeared after Frank BFR'ed them...

Again, the Celestials tried to reason with Galactus first before attacking him. When he refused to back down, that's when they initiated their first attack.

I know it looks like Galactus is in pain when the Celestials arrived on the scene, but he's just reacting to the light. The artist (Barry Kitson) just made the scene a little too dramatic.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Doon
Umm.. it wasn't HIS statement that I was referring to. confused Yourself then?

Doon
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yourself then?

I think you already know. Whatever makes you feel better though. laughing

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Doon
Again, the Celestials tried to reason with Galactus first before attacking him. When he refused to back down, that's when they initiated their first attack.

I know it looks like Galactus is in pain when the Celestials arrived on the scene, but he's just reacting to the light. The artist (Barry Kitson) just made the scene a little too dramatic. Or they attacked first and then tried to reason with him after he survived.

So you accept it looks like Galactus was in pain? Boy since that's all we have to go off of, then I must surely be wrong. It was light after all!

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Frank's flashy entrance was actually stated to be "light" though. And the reaction to it was Sue lazily putting her hand over her eye while staring directly into it. The Celestials didn't give a shit.

And he was right beside it...
I am talking about the scene from #604 , not #603 . His light was very clearly shown blasting a Celestial back .

Nope , if he was right beside it , Galactus would have appeared in his hand , not in space . Sue sealed the room immediately prior to Reed activating the device .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Sure looks like gritting his teeth on my end. Either way, his hands are also up as well.

Because he wasn't being shot by a being that could one shot him... maybe?
Ignore the part about his reaction being pretty much the same though.

There's also the part where you're ignoring the second set that show a Celestial shoot a blast, a big "explosion" on the screen, and Galactus wrestling the shit out of them without any damage.
Despite the fact that his face is almost completely blurred from all that light ?

Already explained this .

That blast probably happened off-panel then because the Celestial was depicted as merely holding up a glowing hand .

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am talking about the scene from #604 , not #603 . His light was very clearly shown blasting a Celestial back .

Nope , if he was right beside it , Galactus would have appeared in his hand , not in space . Sue sealed the room immediately prior to Reed activating the device . Did the light change properties then?
No it... wasn't? They are all looking up. That's it.

The device was in his hand. It doesn't matter where it appeared when Reed immediately felt the effects of it, or it scared the shit out of him. Either way, Reed is not Galactus. Nor is a device that opens up singularities and summons Galactus a flash of light.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Did the light change properties then?
No it... wasn't? They are all looking up. That's it.

Does it matter ? The light is shown hitting a Celestial in the scan I posted , but for some reason you want to disregard that scene and cling to your other "Galactus tanked a blast from the Celestials' teleportation" scene .

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

The device was in his hand. It doesn't matter where it appeared when Reed immediately felt the effects of it, or it scared the shit out of him. Either way, Reed is not Galactus. Nor is a device that opens up singularities and summons Galactus a flash of light.
So you want to ignore the part in which there IS a flash of light as Reed is screaming ? His screaming in pain shows that he is only scared ?

Reed is not Galactus , I agree . The point is that the scene of Galactus' entry into the battlefield is supposed to be dramatic illustrated , just like the Celestials' original entrance and Future Frank/Val's entrances .

And neither is a bunch of cosmic beings teleporting into a particular location an offensive attack either .

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Despite the fact that his face is almost completely blurred from all that light ?

Already explained this .

That blast probably happened off-panel then because the Celestial was depicted as merely holding up a glowing hand . It isn't though.

You didn't explain it very well, if at all.

Are you of the opinion that a Celestial about to blast really means that he wasn't going to blast at all?
Because this is pretty much the closest you can get to depicting a blast without actually drawing it being fired.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-03.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-04.jpg

Notice the color on the screen being the same color as the Celestials' attack (and light), and actually looking like when they merged.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-08.jpg

While all of Galactus' attacks there were blue.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/Celestials/ff603-07.jpg

So... the Celestial didn't blast Galactus why?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Does it matter ? The light is shown hitting a Celestial in the scan I posted , but for some reason you want to disregard that scene and cling to your other "Galactus tanked a blast from the Celestials' teleportation" scene .


So you want to ignore the part in which there IS a flash of light as Reed is screaming ? His screaming in pain shows that he is only scared ?

Reed is not Galactus , I agree . The point is that the scene of Galactus' entry into the battlefield is supposed to be dramatic illustrated , just like the Celestials' original entrance and Future Frank/Val's entrances .

And neither is a bunch of cosmic beings teleporting into a particular location an offensive attack either . And that's all it is, is light.
It didn't have any effect on the Celestials at all, nor was it shown to be anything more than light.
Nor was it even from the same character.

It's a flash of light from something that opens up a god damned wormhole in space.
His screaming either shows he's in pain or scared. Nothing more, nothing less. The thing opened up right beside (whoops, I mean above him since you like to attack those words) him, and then traveled upwards. We should expect Reed to go "Hey, this thing that I have no idea what it does is doing something a foot away from my face at this precise moment, and I should be totally stoic!"

Dramatic illustrated doesn't answer anything. One involved a wormhole. One involved the characters actually talking about the light. And one involved a character individually more powerful than any of those Celestials appearing in the words of Doon "In pain". Oh and btw, did I mention there was no flash of "light" when they teleported back when Frank BFR'ed them? Because I did... and you ignored it multiple times.

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