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All out battle in an open field. No interference. Who wins? Personally, I would say Nihilus, but what do you guys think?

So, any thoughts on this after the quote I posted?

Vitiate has done essentially the same thing as Nihilus, and more. Plus he was able to outmatch the Revan, who surpassed the Exile.

Yet Revan was ultimately defeated because of Scourge's betrayal.

Scourge betrayed him, but it was still a straight up fight. One which Revan lost.

Feats point to Nihilus in a stomp, in spite of what all the Vitiate wankers think. He has the TK to rip Star Destroyers from orbit. One force push should demolish Vitiate.

Originally posted by KingD19
Vitiate has done essentially the same thing as Nihilus, and more. Plus he was able to outmatch the Revan, who surpassed the Exile. Doesn't Vitiate need a ritual to do what Nihilus does with a word?

Vitiate does mind domination bullcrap.

Nihlus uses force drain and owns.

Originally posted by Based
Vitiate does mind domination bullcrap.

I highly doubt that would work on a creature driven purely on hunger. For Nihilus the Emperor will simply be a buffet.

Vitiate makes him his *****.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I highly doubt that would work on a creature driven purely on hunger. For Nihilus the Emperor will simply be a buffet.

Abeloth, who's as every bit an Eldritch Abomination as Nihilus (moreso, really), and a literal manifestation of the dark side (unlike Nihilus) was susceptible to psychic attacks. I see no reason to believe Nihilus isn't.

This is why I for the most part hate the EU. Yoda lifted an X-wing in ESB and it was a huge deal. Now, Nihilus pulls starcruisers from gravitational fields, there is a living planet that apparently is a force god, and Sidious creates wormholes.

Agreed. Stupid as hell.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Abeloth, who's as every bit an Eldritch Abomination as Nihilus (moreso, really), and a literal manifestation of the dark side (unlike Nihilus) was susceptible to psychic attacks. I see no reason to believe Nihilus isn't.

Mind domination isn't instantaneous as Revan showed, and the Emperor has shown nothing to suggest he can tank a multi-million ton Force Push.

But the Exile could?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But the Exile could?

Red herring.

No thanks I don't like fish.


But the Exile could? Or was it never shown? Why was that never shown?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No thanks I don't like fish.


But the Exile could? Or was it never shown? Why was that never shown?

1. Trying to drain the exile depleted his strength.
2. You have no proof he used his TK against the Exile.
3. Throwing this red herring into the air does not stop the Emperor from getting immediately killed by Nihlus TK.

Nihilus was starved and weakened (As stated by Visas Marr) even before draining the Exile, which weakened him further.

So how do you know so much about his Force push?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So how do you know so much about his Force push?

He ripped Star Destroyers from orbit with his telekinetic abilities, that being considered his telekinetic abilities are huge. The Emperor has not shown TK defenses on that level.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nihilus was starved and weakened (As stated by Visas Marr) even before draining the Exile, which weakened him further.

Visas still says during the fight that Nihilus is "too powerful." I find it terribly convenient that his supposed gigaton punch was reduced just enough that he couldn't splat Canderous.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Visas still says during the fight that Nihilus is "too powerful." I find it terribly convenient that his supposed gigaton punch was reduced just enough that he couldn't splat Canderous.

It's called CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) It's the same reason Nihlus didn't just eat Canderous and Visas the moment they stepped onto the bridge to oppose him.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It's called CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) It's the same reason Nihlus didn't just eat Canderous and Visas the moment they stepped onto the bridge to oppose him.

Or perhaps Nihilus's ability to drain is much more limited than some would have us believe? Or perhaps Nihilus's telekinetic powers have been exaggerated?

Let's at least explore these options before just casually disregarding anything that contradicts certain ideas?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Visas still says during the fight that Nihilus is "too powerful." I find it terribly convenient that his supposed gigaton punch was reduced just enough that he couldn't splat Canderous.

Maybe Canderous was simply below his notice in the fight. Who knows, maybe the Exile and Visas protected him. The fight happens in gameplay so we're left to speculate. It's similar to T7-O1 surviving the fight with the Emperor in the Jedi Knight fight. When we know that he's capable of shattering astromech droids with a gesture from Revan.

Besides, he does casually hold/stun them at the start, showing that he can pwn them with the Force.

This is better.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe Canderous was simply below his notice in the fight.

Though I certainly agree that even an elite muggle like Canderous is nowhere close to Nihilus's own level, I'm skeptical of any Sith Lord ignoring someone in a fight who's trying to kill them with a multitude of weapons. Hell, Vitiate took notice of a utility droid in combat.

Unless Nihilus is impervious to blasterfire or conventional weapons' damage.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who knows, maybe the Exile and Visas protected him.

How?

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fight happens in gameplay so we're left to speculate. It's similar to T7-O1 surviving the fight with the Emperor in the Jedi Knight fight.

Yeah, but no one's suggesting that Vitiate is capable of hitting someone with TK powerful enough to rip starships from gravity wells. It's believable that Vitiate would have his hands full entirely with the Jedi Knight, who is clearly more powerful than he is, to the extent that he could not deal with the Knight's companion.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Besides, he does casually hold/stun them at the start, showing that he can pwn them with the Force.

Setting aside the reason why he'd have to stun them, given that they are gnats before his all-encompassing Force tempest (or some such other flowery prose), this is a far cry from the sort of TK Nihilus is alleged to possess.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He ripped Star Destroyers from orbit with his telekinetic abilities, that being considered his telekinetic abilities are huge. The Emperor has not shown TK defenses on that level.

1. Vitiate killed the entire Dark Council
2. Vitiate reduced 4 of the Jedi Order's best to nothing more than his slaves with what appeared to be no effort.
3. Even before his rituals on Nathema, hundreds of sith lord fell under his powers when they arrived on the planet. So no, nobody compares to Vitiate when TK is involved.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
This is better.

Well duh. At this point I know the Nihilus arguments like the 8ack of my claw-like, sca88y hand.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Though I certainly agree that even an elite muggle like Canderous is nowhere close to Nihilus's own level, I'm skeptical of any Sith Lord ignoring someone in a fight who's trying to kill them with a multitude of weapons. Hell, Vitiate took notice of a utility droid in combat.

Unless Nihilus is impervious to blasterfire or conventional weapons' damage.

Viti8 only did that when there was no-one else to fight, after he had su8jug8ed Revan. The Exile and Visas were likely a much 8igger threat to him, so he focused on them.

Plus T3 is hardcore. Lil dude took out 3 HK-50's at the same time in Kotor 2.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
How?

Well I always find ri88ed to be the 8est opt- oh, I mean, er they pro8a8ly used Force Shields or something.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, but no one's suggesting that Vitiate is capable of hitting someone with TK powerful enough to rip starships from gravity wells.

Only that he's disintegr8ed utility droids in the past with a wave of his hand.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's believable that Vitiate would have his hands full entirely with the Jedi Knight, who is clearly more powerful than he is, to the extent that he could not deal with the Knight's companion.

Remem8er that Nihilus also had his hands full. He died in that fight after all.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Setting aside the reason why he'd have to stun them, given that they are gnats before his all-encompassing Force tempest (or some such other flowery prose), this is a far cry from the sort of TK Nihilus is alleged to possess.

Well its not like he was trying to kill them at that point.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or perhaps Nihilus's ability to drain is much more limited than some would have us believe? Or perhaps Nihilus's telekinetic powers have been exaggerated?
Limited? We see in Unseen Unheard him consume an entire world. Unlike the Emperor where we merely hear about him consuming a world through a legend we see Nihilus do it on screen. The Emperor's feats aren't that great.
As for Nihilus' TK feats, it is blatantly stated by multiple sources that Nihilus ripped those vessels from the mass shadows of Malachor V. Canderous flat out says that the Ravager is not space worthy, and it is heavily implied that the Ravager is held together by Darth Nihilus' sheer will.



I still have not seen a convincing argument as to why the Emperor would win except. 'Lol mind rape.' Which is really doubtful considering that Nihilus is driven only by hunger. Abeloth may be similar but she is still conscious. Nihilus does not even see the galaxy the way force sensitives do, he simply views it as his dinner plate.

He has enough presence of mind to sap Traya's powers in a calculated double-cross. Enough to speak with others and enough to create a holocron.

Originally posted by markusfloyd375
1. Vitiate killed the entire Dark Council
Prove that Vitiate solo'd the Dark Council. All we know is the Dark Council enters his Dark Temple and they don't leave. You know the Dark Temple filled with his loyal protectors that get a powerboost when they are around him.



Simply not true. He defeated 3 Jedi Knights and Tol Braga. We know the Jedi Knight at that time was considerably weaker than when he fought the Emperor. Tol Braga even admitted that he broke from his control but chose to turn to the Dark Side.



Prove that they instantly fell under his control. And post feats for those "hundreds of Sith Lords". Because Nihilus instantly consumed 100 battlehardened Jedi who survived the Jedi Civil War.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He has enough presence of mind to sap Traya's powers in a calculated double-cross. Enough to speak with others and enough to create a holocron.

It is pretty clearly expressed that after some time Nihilus' power essentially took over him and he became the embodiment of hunger. The calculated double-cross was before that. Yes he could still speak to people and he could still speak but his perception of the universe, and his own being was different than pretty much anything else we've seen.

Nah, it just means that no-one up to that point could have. It doesn't mean that no-one ever could.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, it just means that no-one up to that point could have. It doesn't mean that no-one ever could.

Except...Tol Braga did break free, Revan did resist it, and he was able to teach the Exile and Scourge too as well. Canon blatantly contradicts the link you just posted. And Nihilus is multiple levels more powerful than Tol Braga, the Exile, and Revan via feats.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except...Tol Braga did break free, Revan did resist it, and he was able to teach the Exile and Scourge too as well. Canon blatantly contradicts the link you just posted. And Nihilus is multiple levels more powerful than Tol Braga, the Exile, and Revan via feats.

Tol 8raga did succum8, that he 8roke free is meaningless. The same with Revan, the Exile and Scourge.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove that Vitiate solo'd the Dark Council. All we know is the Dark Council enters his Dark Temple and they don't leave. You know the Dark Temple filled with his loyal protectors that get a powerboost when they are around him.
No, they entered the throne room, and didn't come out. Not the temple.




It doesn't matter what Braga claimed. We see Vitiate wave his hand, and all the jedi go down. With no effort, he wtfpwned 3 powerful jedi and the jedi knight. And at that point, the jedi knight was declared as the Republic's only hope.




The text said "they instantly fell under his control". I don't have to prove what's already there. I also don't need feats for these sith lords. The point is, they were sith lords that were instantly tranformed into his slaves, proving Vitiate's superior TK. And finally, please show me where it said Nihilus consumed 100 jedi.




Nihilus' power was such that he made instant slaves of his crew, which wasn't nearly as impressive as Vitiate having the entire planet under his sway. And unless you want to start claiming that the Exile>entire planet of Miralukas, it stands to reason that Nihilus can not simply turn his hunger on at any time. Nothing suggests he can affect Vitiate on any level. This of course, forgetting the thousands of years of Vitiate mastering whatever the dark side had to offer.

I do believe you two are confusing TK/telekinesis with TP/telepathy.

You are right, complete brainfart on my part.

Originally posted by noelrodgers256
You are right,

An unfortunate consequence of my brilliance.

Originally posted by noelrodgers256
complete brainfart on my part.

Your zeal to defend Vitiate is admirable.



Much like the preferred interpretation for Nihilus's drain, which is equally preposterous.

I'd say Nihilus becomes a slave to Vitiate's will.

Mizukage_Yoda's reference to Unseen, Unheard reminds me of what appears to be a glaring contradiction between what KotOR 2 tells us of the nature of the Sith technique used by Nihilus & the Exile and the events of the comic. If I recall correctly, Kreia claims that the technique requires a bond to be formed between the user and victim/s. If that is so, how is Nihilus able to project it against an entire planet's worth of life when he had never encountered or had the time to create such a bond?

Such a conundrum. If only wise Tobin could provide direction in this matter. mmm

Thoughts?

I don't recall Kreia ever saying that. All she said was that it's not a technique that can be learned, only experienced, yet she somehow taught it to Nihilus and to a lesser extent, the sith assassins.

Who said he needs to spend time with someone to form a 8ond? All life is already 8onded by the Force anyway.

The attack is a 'drain' that stretches over planets. How does he drain someone across those distances? O8viously its a similar process. The cloud/8eam/whatever hits the target, forces a Force 8ond on the target and them drains them dry. It's hardly a complex explan8ion.

I'm reading through the Let's Play archive and I've concluded that this is some of the most unintentionally hilarious dialogue I've ever read:

Jedi Master: "Yes, you feel the Force... but you cannot feel yourself."

The Exile: "But I can feel the Force, strongly."
Jedi Master: "So you think."



Avellone should have left the higher thought to people who could actually handle it: Luceno & Stover.

It's going to be a b1tch to make sense of this nonsense.

You're trying too hard. Here, have some of this, it's my treat:

http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/dr-zoidbergs-butthurt-cream-300x225.jpg

So one of the Jedi Masters confirms that Force bonds take time and understanding to develop. Though the Exile can form them with relative ease, I don't see any suggestion that she forms bonds with complete and total strangers instantaneously. References are made to her companions and to her subordinates, people she spends or spent time around in the past.

Still looking for more on the subject, but right now the contradiction has morphed into a giant chasm that shatters all credulity.

Perhaps Tobin will have more to say on this subject.

Really don't think Nihilus' drain has anything to do with forming bonds.

Originally posted by joneskevin624
Really don't think Nihilus' drain has anything to do with forming bonds.

According to the Jedi Masters (& Kreia as well, I believe), it is. Crappy writing aside, I do have to give Avellone some points for trying to legitimize certain RPG mechanics: level progression & group healing.

I'm watching a video now of a discussion between the Exile and Kreia concerning their bond, which the game labels as a "Force chain."

Is this the same technique, I wonder, or a more powerful manifestation?

Only further investigation and perhaps critical insight from Tobin the All-knowing will elucidate matters.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So one of the Jedi Masters confirms that Force bonds take time and understanding to develop. Though the Exile can form them with relative ease, I don't see any suggestion that she forms bonds with complete and total strangers instantaneously. References are made to her companions and to her subordinates, people she spends or spent time around in the past.

Still looking for more on the subject, but right now the contradiction has morphed into a giant chasm that shatters all credulity.

Perhaps Tobin will have more to say on this subject.

Yeah, that pretty much destroys my entire argument. I mean, it's not like the Exile forms 8onds with people she kills, i.e. complete and total strangers most of the time. That would totally be something I haven't written a8out and had to constantly remind everyone of every time a thread with Nihilus is 8rought up.

Nope. Golly gosh that's frust8ing.

Sure, but the Exile actually has to have some sort of interaction with these people, even in combat. That's what I was getting at.

Meanwhile, also interesting is Zez-Kai Ell's comment that the Sith menace (presumably Nihilus) was weak enough to fear confronting the Jedi openly.

And Nihilus interacts with them. What do you think that huge 8lack cloud is? The monster from Lost?

You mean like flying right up to the planet where they've all gathered and killing them all? Yeah, the Sith were too weak to do that imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Nihilus interacts with them. What do you think that huge black cloud is? The monster from Lost?

Ah, I didn't realize a huge black cloud was a telltale sign of personal interaction.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean like flying right up to the planet where they've all gathered and killing them all? Yeah, the Sith were too weak to do that imo.

Because a surprise attack constitutes an open one.
You should self-administer some of the cream or, if you want, you can bend over and I'll do it for you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, I didn't realize a huge black cloud was a telltale sign of personal interaction.

Because a surprise attack constitutes an open one.
You should self-administer some of the cream or, if you want, you can bend over and I'll do it for you.

The need for personal interaction is purely in your mind my friend. Let it go. Nihilus uses the same technique as the Exile, which I've already proven works via Force 8onds.

Lol.

The_Tempest, please stop responding to banned accounts. That encourages socking.

Well that explains why these guys are getting banned so quickly. My bad. :$

Or you can do what we all do and that's ignore Ush. As a result, this forum runs more smoothly.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He ripped Star Destroyers from orbit with his telekinetic abilities, that being considered his telekinetic abilities are huge. The Emperor has not shown TK defenses on that level. Wait... so the ability to lift something heavy at God knows what speed, is equivalent to being able to throw something heavy at damaging speeds? If I can lift 1000 pounds slowly, it means I can throw 1000 pounds with deadly speed?

Don't you need to 8e moving at a certain speed to 8reak orbit?

Only if there isn't any further propulsion or force being applied.

This is the problem with Nihilus: there's no time frame given for his major abilities. He drained a world with a word--kay. How long was the build-up? He pulled a ship from a gravity well--kay. How long did it take? It's impressive either way, but if it took him hours, or days, or more to do it, then it's useless in a fight. Second problem is that the only canon fight he's had with anyone was with the Exile--while he was weakened. There's only speculation with Nihilus.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Much like the preferred interpretation for Nihilus's drain, which is equally preposterous.

Unseen Unheard pretty much dismisses any argument against Nihilus. He can lay waste to worlds with a breath, KOTOR II confirms he has multi million ton TK. The Emperor's feats pale in comparison.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Unseen Unheard pretty much dismisses any argument against Nihilus. He can lay waste to worlds with a breath, KOTOR II confirms he has multi million ton TK. The Emperor's feats pale in comparison.

He's had plenty of chances to consume worlds and he consumed one. For all we know, it was same ritual Vitiate used. However, Vitiate's ritual made him immortal, while Nihilus was going to be consumed by his hunger. Vitiate's complete destruction of his world was more impressive because while Nihilus' destruction left a void in the force, the destruction of Nathema left nothing. Also, wtf is "multi ton million tk"? Sounds like an arbitrary characterization not backed up by anything.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Unseen Unheard pretty much dismisses any argument against Nihilus. He can lay waste to worlds with a breath, KOTOR II confirms he has multi million ton TK. The Emperor's feats pale in comparison.

Somebody needs to buy this man a goddamn cigar.

Originally posted by darkodanger
He's had plenty of chances to consume worlds and he consumed one. For all we know, it was same ritual Vitiate used. However, Vitiate's ritual made him immortal, while Nihilus was going to be consumed by his hunger. Vitiate's complete destruction of his world was more impressive because while Nihilus' destruction left a void in the force, the destruction of Nathema left nothing. Also, wtf is "multi ton million tk"? Sounds like an arbitrary characterization not backed up by anything.

That's because you're an Idiot.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
That's because you're an Idiot.

This coming from someone who hasn't demonstrated the ability to form an argument, much less a logical thought or an intelligent sentence, I take that as a compliment.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I love the blatant reaching and utter butthurt that is involved in this thread, in a sad and lonely attempt to discredit Darth Nihilus.

Nobody is trying to discredit Nihilus. The only ones who have come to the conclusion are the butthurt Nihilus fanboys who lack any kind of evidence.


It is VISAS who states "when Nihilus spoke, the world died". A literal interpretation requires support of said interpretation, where none exists. Furthermore, if he could just "speak" and worlds die, he would have no peer. There would be no need for KOTOR 2, or Kreia, or for the Exile. The idea that he needs some form of preparation seems more viable than "he spoke worlds died LOLz".



Kreia also said the technique cannot be learned, yet she taught it to Nihilus and a lesser form of the technique to the sith assassins. Hurray for picking and choosing whatever helps your fanboy opinions!

Kreia only helped him to perfect the technique. She didn't teach it to him.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Somebody needs to buy this man a goddamn cigar.


NowYouRemember lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kreia only helped him to perfect the technique. She didn't teach it to him.

Where was this stated?

KotOR campaign guide.

Originally posted by ares834
KotOR campaign guide.

What does it say specifically?

No one in the game was his peer.

The Exile was immune to his power and he was weakened by his attempt at draining her.

You might have something vaguely resembling a point if you had any counter-evidence, but... You don't. You have none at all. Show me Nihilus being unable to devour a planet because he didn't prepare beforehand. If you can't, then you must succumb to Occam's Razor.



The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide apparently states that Nihilus has always had the technique, Kreia just taught him how to better utlise it (He was draining people to sate his Hunger before he was ever a Sith apparently). I'll be back to verify this after I download it.

Oh, and how do you know the Sith Assassins were given the technique via teaching? Also, "lesser variation" is the key word.

Oh, and btw, I'm not responding to this for you, only to shoot down arguments that Tempest or whoever may make in the future before they can post them. Although, I get the feeling that Tempest's reply would not have been as hamfisted or absent-minded.

"Then, when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered. The first time, he fed it unconsciously. Draining another being's life is frightening, nauseating, but for a euphoric moment, the memories, the illness, and the hunger disappeared. But it proves insatiable. The more he indulges it, the shorter the satisfaction lasts and the more severe the hunger becomes. He begins feeding relentlessly, still always craving. Existence again becomes unbearable, but then hope materializes. A blind Sith Lord appears. She has felt his existence like a gaping wound through the Force. The Force, she explains, fuels his hunger, and she will show him how to devours worlds. The Sith and the Force are meaningless to him, but the hunger must be appeased."

--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

As for the Sith Assassins:

“What if other Jedi went to war as you did, suffered the same events, and emerged as you did. What if there was a crucible that trained such Jedi to consume and kill?”

“For you, Malachor was that crucible.”

“What's worse, is these Sith that we face... I fear that they have learned the lesson of Malachor all too well. It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near.”

“Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you. And so you have brought about the end of the Jedi, and perhaps all the knowledge of the Force.”


Now, where is the Trayas Academy again?

Furthermore:

"In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin."

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Nihilus did not drain 8ut one planet.

You have no evidence that it was instant, other than the ramblings of Visas. You're also asking me to prove a negative. If all Nihilus has to do is speak and world die, and he was around several planets many times in KOTOR 2, logic dictates that he would have eaten the planets. Since he did not, logic suggests it's not as simple as "speaking", or anything instant. Your move champ.

Doesn't this prove that she taught it to him? The world devouring technique specifically? Yet she claimed it's not something that can be learned.

I 8elieve it is stated that he did not drain Telos 8ecause he was confused at the lack of a Jedi Academy there. Kreia lied to him.

Originally posted by peterschiff599
You have no evidence that it was instant, other than the ramblings of Visas.

We see him fly to Katarr, then Katarr dies.

You're concocting some elaborate explanation and ritual that wasn't even hinted at.



Name the planets he was around.

He was blocked before he could get to Telos IV, and as stated in the game he didn't even notice the people boarding his ship to kill him, his attention still on Telos IV.

Originally posted by NemeBro
We see him fly to Katarr, then Katarr dies.

You're concocting some elaborate explanation and ritual that wasn't even hinted at.
And you're reaching for a favorable conclusion as a fanboy. We have no idea the timeframe in the comics. If you are going to suggest it is instant, the onus is on you to prove it. I didn't suggest it wasn't instant, I suggested there isn't any proof that it was instant.




The point is, if he can just eat planets at will, he would have no reason to fly around in the Unknown Regions.

Originally posted by markspits267
And you're reaching for a favorable conclusion as a fanboy. We have no idea the timeframe in the comics. If you are going to suggest it is instant, the onus is on you to prove it. I didn't suggest it wasn't instant, I suggested there isn't any proof that it was instant.

"When my Lord spoke, my world died."

Every being on Katarr was psychically linked to Nihilus at the moment of Katarr's demise, and Visas was granted a Force Bond out of the deal.

Other than maybe Kreia, there is no one who knows Nihilus and his power better than she does.

Why not?

Originally posted by NemeBro
"When my Lord spoke, my world died."

Every being on Katarr was psychically linked to Nihilus at the moment of Katarr's demise, and Visas was granted a Force Bond out of the deal.
Sorry but it's going to take more than what Visas thinks for it to constitute as "evidence". That's the definition of reaching right there.


So?



If you can consume planets at will, there's no reason to hide.

Originally posted by markspits267
Sorry but it's going to take more than what Visas thinks for it to constitute as "evidence". That's the definition of reaching right there.

Frankly I don't care what you think, you're a fool who dismisses any evidence and counters with a notable lack of evidence. Visas Marr made an explicit statement on Nihilus's power and the useage of it (Which is consistent with his in-game abilities, his voice alone and even his presence when not exerting it drains the wills and minds of others), you respond with... Nothing.



So she is more qualified than all but maybe one person to comment on Nihilus and his power.



The moment he was informed (Falsely) that there was a Conclave of Jedi on Telos IV, he made a beeline straight for it.

But obviously he had to extensively prepare for this right? Obviously he's a coward who hides from the Jedi, despite the fact that he has shown himself jumping at the chance to go eat some, right?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Frankly I don't care what you think, you're a fool who dismisses any evidence and counters with a notable lack of evidence. Visas Marr made an explicit statement on Nihilus's power and the useage of it (Which is consistent with his in-game abilities, his voice alone and even his presence when not exerting it drains the wills and minds of others), you respond with... Nothing.

This coming from the guy who claims "she said it so it must be true!!" That's your evidence? I don't need a rebuttal to trump your evidence. I just need to say "prove it", and you'll go on your little crybaby speech. She's not an out of universe authority, nor any authority on Nihilus power, so her statement is pure conjecture. Either prove up or shut up. Just stop crying, it's embarrassing.



Remind me where she says it's instant.




Ah the fallacies just jump out at you. I didn't suggest any of that, just that you lack proof for your assertion. Good try though

The Emperor require other Sith Lords to perform a ritual to devour the world.

Originally posted by rolldrum169 This coming from the guy who claims "she said it so it must be true!!" That's your evidence? I don't need a rebuttal to trump your evidence. I just need to say "prove it", and you'll go on your little crybaby speech. She's not an out of universe authority, nor any authority on Nihilus power, so her statement is pure conjecture. Either prove up or shut up. Just stop crying, it's embarrassing.

Whenever Nihilus is devouring a world is mentioned, no prep-work is mentioned, no talk of some elaborate incantation or ritual, just that he eats the world. When his eating of Katarr is mentioned in the guide mentioned earlier, it is just noted that he binged on the planet, he ate it. And the same guide mentions that the power to feast on entire worlds (Which he is noted to do ravenously in his hunger) is just a radical heightening of the power he has possessed ever since Malachor V.

That is what really kills your attempts at discrediting the power, what Nihilus does is just the most powerful form of a technique we have seen in action many times.



"Instant" is relative.

"When my lord spoke, my world died."

It seems it doesn't take very long though...



I'm pretty sure you meant they jump out of me, not at me.

Also, I like how you ignored my flawless rebuking of your attempt at downplaying and chose simply to flame.

You said Nihilus needed to hide in an attempt to discredit his power, I showed that Nihilus doesn't hide, he merely goes where he suspects the most Force Sensitives will be.

Also, I never claimed you suggested that, only demonstrating why your tactics are laughable.

As long as Nihilus can resist the Emperor's mind control, he will have the upperhand.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Whenever Nihilus is devouring a world is mentioned, no prep-work is mentioned, no talk of some elaborate incantation or ritual, just that he eats the world. When his eating of Katarr is mentioned in the guide mentioned earlier, it is just noted that he binged on the planet, he ate it. And the same guide mentions that the power to feast on entire worlds (Which he is noted to do ravenously in his hunger) is just a radical heightening of the power he has possessed ever since Malachor V.

Not everything has to be explicitly stated. In fact, MOST things in the SW universe aren't explicitly stated. Nothing is mentioned about rituals, doesn't mean he didn't use them. It doesn't mean it was instant either. You're pretty much proving my point that you lack the proof for your assertions.


Nothing kills my attempts since I'm the only one offering up a logical argument. Nobody is discreding his power, you're just exaggerating it. And again, what Vitiate did was more impressive in my opinion.




It doesn't seem instant either. Could take hours, minutes, etc. Point is, we don't know.




The only thing you've done flawlessly is "flawlessly" prove my point.


I didn't say he needed to hide, I just said he can go wherever he wants if his power is instant. He doesn't. Simple.


My tactics are rendering your argument to nothing. Come back when you're better prepared.

BTW, we can visually see the technique in action if you kill one of the Jedi Masters. Kreia also explains the technique again.

Nemobro, please do not reply to banned posters, as this encourages socking.

Fine, I was done with him anyway.

Anyone with half a working brain could see that I tore him a new anus.

PePWLwj8McQ

2.30 if anyones interested.

Originally posted by Nephthys
PePWLwj8McQ

2.30 if anyones interested.

Dark Side is non-canon.

As an example of the technique it still stands. The Exile uses the technique regardless, its just visible here. Considering how contentious the technique is, we need all the info we can get imo.

The Emperor could not mind control everyone otherwise he would not need to create the ravager.

Nah, I was just joking around. Hence the "". But I agree, the more info on the technique the better.

Originally posted by Slowpoke
The Emperor could not mind control anyone otherwise he would not need to create the ravager.

Except, we see him mind control several characters. So, no, he can.

Originally posted by Slowpoke
The Emperor could not mind control anyone otherwise he would not need to create the ravager. I am pretty sure he can actually.

Originally posted by ares834
Except, we see him mind control several characters. So, no, he can.

Oh I mistyped, I mean he could not control everyone for sure.

Well there is that quote that says that none can stand in his presence without succum8ing to him.


Personally I think Viti8s mental domination is too powerful for Nihilus to resist. Its kind of a quick-draw to see who can use their un8locka8le technique first.

Originally posted by franklinash299
Vitiate mind****ed many of the Jedi Order's most powerful, it doesn't seem to be an issue.

But he still needs to create the ravager to get information from other Sith Lords, so some of them can resist his will.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well there is that quote that says that none can stand in his presence without succum8ing to him.


Personally I think Viti8s mental domination is too powerful for Nihilus to resist. Its kind of a quick-draw to see who can use their un8locka8le technique first.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well there is that quote that says that none can stand in his presence without succum8ing to him.


Personally I think Viti8s mental domination is too powerful for Nihilus to resist. Its kind of a quick-draw to see who can use their un8locka8le technique first.

Then why did he have to create the ravager?

I guess he can't read minds as easily as he domin8s them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I guess he can't read minds as easily as he domin8s them.

If he can dominate anyone's mind, he can simply command them to talk what they know about.

Maybe thats why he locked it up in the Dark Temple. He was like 'Hey, why not just ask them? Man, making this thing was pretty dumb now that I think about it. I should kill everyone involved in making it. No-one must know how stupid I really am."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe thats why he locked it up in the Dark Temple. He was like 'Hey, why not just ask them? Man, making this thing was pretty dumb now that I think about it. I should kill everyone involved in making it. No-one must know how stupid I really am."

He used it quite a few times before, unless he's stupid enough to forget his ability for that long, there sure was some individuals he could not break.

Also if he could dominate people's mind that easily he just have to go brainwash the chancellor and the Jedi council then the war would be won.

I do vaguely remember a mention of this technique in the Revan novel, where the ancient sith were afraid to use it because they would become slaves to it, and Vitiate discovered or rediscovered the technique.

Didn't he make it 8efore the time of Revan? Perhaps his mind powers were not as unshaka8le as they were 8y that time. He does have over 1000 years to develop after all.

Sure. He'll just walk up to them and oh wait I think we've hit a snag.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't he make it 8efore the time of Revan? Perhaps his mind powers were not as unshaka8le as they were by that time. He does have over 1000 years to develop after all.

Sure. He'll just walk up to them and oh wait I think we've hit a snag.
There is no proof.

He just has to travel with the massive army and mind control everything there. Also when the Empire sacked Coruscant he could just go there and dominate everybody, most of the republic's governors were all there.

And he could just mind control the ambassador to make the treaty of Coruscant totally favor the Empire.

Originally posted by Slowpoke
There is no proof.

He just has to travel with the massive army and mind control everything there. Also when the Empire sacked Coruscant he could just go there and dominate everybody, most of the republic's governors were all there.

And he could just mind control the ambassador to make the treaty of Coruscant totally favor the Empire.

There is also no proof of anyone resisting his domin8ion. All I am hearing is a lot of specul8ion from you.

The Emperor would not risk himself in 8attle. Remem8er what happened to Revan? Speaking of, he was 8eing influenced 8y Revan at the time. He doesn't even care a8out the war that much. He is much more focused on his plan to consume the galaxy.

Does Nihilus really have the type of mind that is susceptible to being controlled? I mean, how do we know he has a consciousness even remotely similar to an average Force user at that point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
There is also no proof of anyone resisting his domin8ion. All I am hearing is a lot of specul8ion from you.

The Emperor would not risk himself in 8attle. Remem8er what happened to Revan? Speaking of, he was 8eing influenced 8y Revan at the time. He doesn't even care a8out the war that much. He is much more focused on his plan to consume the galaxy.

There is indirect proof that shows his mind control does not work on some people.

Why would he need to risk himself? He got the ability of essence transfer, even if his body was destroyed he could still easily make it.

No, the trailer clearly said he was not pleased that the council didn't bring the victory to him.

"Though he now controlled half the galaxy, the Sith Emperor grew impatient - "he had expected his triumph to come quickly.

Did you or did you not state that the game says Nihilus needs to form a bond to use his power, yes or no?

Also, I could give a rat's dick if Vitiate beats Nihilus.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Did you or did you not state that the game says Nihilus needs to form a bond to use his power, yes or no?

no

Well, yes, kind of:





Originally posted by NemeBro
Also, I could give a rat's dick if Vitiate beats Nihilus.

NiggaWillard, please.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your intriguing combination of obvious agitation, use of a blatant strawman, and constant references to butthurt lead me to believe that your anus weeps as much as your eyes, witnessing the brutal death of your fragile hopes for Nihilus's supremacy.

Your anguish is most gratifying.


ROFL. My sentiments exactly.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
no

Well, yes, kind of:







NiggaWillard, please. So the answer is yes.

I win.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So the answer is yes.

Only if the question is: "Is NemeBro The_Tempest's b1tch?"

ha

Actually, it is me who's argued that the technique works via 8onds. I'm not prepared to argue it again, 8ut rest assured, it's true. One of Kotor 2's strengths is in how well the story is tied together. Force 8onds are a major part of the story.

I actually do vaguely recall that Nihilus forced a bond on those he uses the technique on, but then severs it, but I am too lazy to find the quote.

Such is my brilliance that I skillfully managed to pit you two Nihilus-loving noobs against one another.

Dance, my puppets. Dance.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I actually do vaguely recall that Nihilus forced a bond on those he uses the technique on, but then severs it, but I am too lazy to find the quote.

You mean the one on the last page?

It's pretty much spelled out when you talk to the Jedi on Dantooine. The Exile Force 8onds with everyone. Hell, she Force 8onded with a ****ing crystal! Pretty much everything comes from her ability to Force 8ond so easily with everything.

I didn't dispute anything Nephthys said, you assramming pig****er.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I didn't dispute anything Nephthys said, you assramming pig****er.

Kindly leave my sex life out of this, please.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well there is that quote that says that none can stand in his presence without succum8ing to him.


Personally I think Viti8s mental domination is too powerful for Nihilus to resist. Its kind of a quick-draw to see who can use their un8locka8le technique first.

If Revan could use his Dark Side Light Side Force Push before the Emperor could mind rape him, Nihilus could do the same.

Yeah, 8ecause Nihilus has such a rich plethora of speed feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, 8ecause Nihilus has such a rich plethora of speed feats.

TK is instantaneous. There's never been a showing of TK not being instant. Your argument is so fallacious it's not even funny.
'Teh quote says the emperor's power can control anyone. So it can...even if other people can resist'

There are no feats of the Emperor's mind control being instant either. So hurry up and concede.

Why is no one appreciating Nephthys's efforts to defend Vitiate from Nihilus? Neph, I appreciate you.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
TK is instantaneous. There's never been a showing of TK not being instant. Your argument is so fallacious it's not even funny.
'Teh quote says the emperor's power can control anyone. So it can...even if other people can resist'

There are no feats of the Emperor's mind control being instant either. So hurry up and concede.

It seemed pretty instant in the SWTOR game when Vitiate mind****ed the 4 jedi. You lost this argument pages ago.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
TK is instantaneous. There's never been a showing of TK not being instant.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif

I think you mean that the other way. There's very few showings of TK 8eing instantaneous. For example:

WIj7gIDFDe4

3.38

According to Wookieepedia:

'At more powerful levels, Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'-that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces.'

Something tell me that isn't instant. :I

Plagueis also demonstrated non-instant TK with his Force Wave, which was descri8ed as moving around disintegrating his opponents.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Your argument is so fallacious it's not even funny.
'Teh quote says the emperor's power can control anyone. So it can...even if other people can resist'

There are no feats of the Emperor's mind control being instant either. So hurry up and concede.

Has there ever 8een a person who resisted without succum8ing to him?

The only thing I can think of is that it appears that those who have already fallen to him 8efore cannot do so agian, and that is merely my speculation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif

I think you mean that the other way. There's very few showings of TK 8eing instantaneous. For example:

WIj7gIDFDe4

3.38

According to Wookieepedia:

'At more powerful levels, Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'-that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces.'

Something tell me that isn't instant. :I

Plagueis also demonstrated non-instant TK with his Force Wave, which was descri8ed as moving around disintegrating his opponents.


Instant is the wrong word. It's still faster than



Uhh yeah a lot of people. Tol Braga didn't get turned until after the Emperor subdued him with Force Lightning. Neither did the knight.
Revan and Malak got turned but we again don't know how long it took. And controlling two Dark Jedi already brushing on knowledge of the Dark Side isn't impressive.

The Sith Lords on Nathema?
We don't know how long it took.

Revan Reborn?
Outright resisted for 300 years
Exile, Lord Scourge?
Also resisted.

With the ravager's quest info, it's clear that the Emperor's mind control skills does not work on some sith.

Or he simply 8uilt a device that extracts secrets from people purely for the intellectual 8enefits. He had to do something in the 1000 years he was w8ing to invade the Repu8lic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or he simply 8uilt a device that extracts secrets from people purely for the intellectual 8enefits. He had to do something in the 1000 years he was w8ing to invade the Repu8lic.

If he could control their mind, why would he need such a device to get information? Simply let them tell him their secret.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or he simply 8uilt a device that extracts secrets from people purely for the intellectual 8enefits. He had to do something in the 1000 years he was w8ing to invade the Repu8lic.

And yet he could not extract a single bit of information from Revan for 300 years. Granted it was with the Exile's help, but 300 years ?

Originally posted by Slowpoke
If he could control their mind, why would he need such a device to get information? Simply let them tell him their secret.

Who says he needed it? Perhaps he 8uilt it 8ecause he has a ho88ie for inventing stuff.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And yet he could not extract a single bit of information from Revan for 300 years. Granted it was with the Exile's help, but 300 years ?

What's your point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who says he needed it? Perhaps he 8uilt it 8ecause he has a ho88ie for inventing stuff.



What's your point?

That the Emperor's technique is neither instant nor all powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who says he needed it? Perhaps he 8uilt it 8ecause he has a ho88ie for inventing stuff.

He used it to get secrets from other Sith Lords.

Well there no point 8uilding it and then never using it. That doesn't mean that he 'needed' it. Recall also that he did seal it away in the Dark Temple. Again pointing to him not requiring it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That the Emperor's technique is neither instant nor all powerful.

Lol. I never claimed that it was all-powerful. I provided a quote saying that none can stand in his presence and not succum8. As I recall, Revan did succum8. And also as I recall he developed a technique that ena8led him to resist Vitaites power. And was aided 8y the Exile.

Does the OP say that the Exile's ghost is helping Nihilus in this fight?

Originally posted by Nephthys


Lol. I never claimed that it was all-powerful. I provided a quote saying that none can stand in his presence and not succum8. As I recall, Revan did succum8. And also as I recall he developed a technique that ena8led him to resist Vitaites power. And was aided 8y the Exile.

Does the OP say that the Exile's ghost is helping Nihilus in this fight?

Show me one instance that proves the Emperor's mind control is instantaneous.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Instant is the wrong word. It's still faster than

Faster than nothing? Well thats a 8it harsh, 8ut whatever. I will say though that you have a8solutely no proof that Nihilus can attack first.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhh yeah a lot of people. Tol Braga didn't get turned until after the Emperor subdued him with Force Lightning. Neither did the knight.

Whats your point? We know from Revan that the Emperor consciously activates him mental domination. He simply did not do so 8efore he su8jugg8ed them.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Revan and Malak got turned but we again don't know how long it took. And controlling two Dark Jedi already brushing on knowledge of the Dark Side isn't impressive.

I don't know why you think questioning how long it takes is at all relevent. We see him use it in Revan, it takes no time at all for Revan to feel his will working on him.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Sith Lords on Nathema?
We don't know how long it took.

We see him using it on Revan you dullard. Questioning time is inane.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Revan Reborn?
Outright resisted for 300 years

He had help, and experience against the Emperor's mental domin8ion already. Something Nihilus does not possess.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Exile, Lord Scourge?
Also resisted.

Funny, I seem to recall the Exile dying and Scourge becoming Vitiates 8itch for 300 years. I also do not recall Vitiate actually attempt it on them.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Show me one instance that proves the Emperor's mind control is instantaneous.

Show me one instance that proves Nihilus's TK or Giga-Drain is instantaneous.

Then actually provide some reflex and speed feats for him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well there no point 8uilding it and then never using it. That doesn't mean that he 'needed' it. Recall also that he did seal it away in the Dark Temple. Again pointing to him not requiring it.


If he didn't need it why would he build and use it? Using device rather than your own power when your power can make it is a way to show weakness.

Beside this, he never did such thing, build useless device and use it for so long.

Originally posted by Slowpoke
If he didn't need it why would he build and use it? Using device rather than your own power when your power can make it is a way to show weakness.

Beside this, he never did such thing, build useless device and use it for so long.

Does he need a reason? As I said, 1000 years is a long time. Need to keep 8usy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Show me one instance that proves Nihilus's TK or Giga-Drain is instantaneous.

Then actually provide some reflex and speed feats for him.

Sure when you show me some speed feats for the Emperor.
Meetra Surik threw her lightsaber blade faster than he could bring his blade down. Revan TK'ed him before he could mind **** him...what speed feats does Vitiate have?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Show me one instance that proves Nihilus's TK or Giga-Drain is instantaneous. Well we see him perform the "drain" with no build-up at all against the Exile.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Well we see him perform the "drain" with no build-up at all against the Exile.

That doesn't answer the question. The amount of reaching is hysterical.


Yet the Emperor seemed to be successful with everyone besides Revan. Perhaps that speaks more for Revan's power than the alleged pitfalls of the Emperor's?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Does he need a reason? As I said, 1000 years is a long time. Need to keep 8usy.

Yes, base on his character, he surely got a reason to do this and the reason mostly is his power cannot control everyone.

The story in TOR also support this, we didn't see him brainwash the republic's heads and won the war.