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Fight on Apokolips.

What has DCNU Darkseid done to be put against Bor?

More then Bor. He stomps.

How does DCnU Darkseid "stomp"?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How does DCnU Darkseid "stomp"?

Physically, because he is superior or easily with BFR.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Physically, because he is superior or easily with BFR. Bor has shown to be able to transport himself between dimensions so BFR is out

How is he physically superior to a guy that could have one shot killed Thor w/o the Odin Force with a single blow and break Thor w/ the Odin Force's ribs before going into his "unleashed" mode - which would have threatened the entire planet? The guy pushed OF Thor more so than power absorbing Rulk and the Destroyer Armor and caused Mjolnir to actually break after being struck hard enough.

Batman Prime is just talking OTA. Darkseid doesn't have the fts to prove that he can contend with Bor.

You defending an Asgardian is making me uneasy.....stop it. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/g_serious.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How is he physically superior to a guy that could have one shot killed Thor w/o the Odin Force with a single blow and break Thor w/ the Odin Force's ribs before going into his "unleashed" mode - which would have threatened the entire planet? The guy pushed OF Thor more so than power absorbing Rulk and the Destroyer Armor and caused Mjolnir to actually break after being struck hard enough.

He took on a Team that was more powerful then OF Thor and their only option was BFR. He also was easily manipulated by Loki. Superman or GL with Shields would survive that blow imho, Diana would use her bracer for defense. Bor wasn't impressive at all. OF was dominated by Rulk. Nothing bad since Rulk had the Loeb force but still.

BFR via OE is different then your average BFR and it would be enough.

I saw that Bor vs OF thor fight and it was lame for a "would be Skyfather". I would rank him as High Herald or Trans as best, Thor with OF too btw.

Originally posted by carver9
Batman Prime is just talking OTA. Darkseid doesn't have the fts to prove that he can contend with Bor.

Calling the kettle black? Bor doesn't have the feats to prove that he can contend with DS.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He took on a Team that was more powerful then OF Thor and their only option was BFR. He also was easily manipulated by Loki. Superman or GL with Shields would survive that blow imho, Diana would use her bracer for defense. Bor wasn't impressive at all. OF was dominated by Rulk. Nothing bad since Rulk had the Loeb force but still.

BFR via OE is different then your average BFR and it would be enough.

I saw that Bor vs OF thor fight and it was lame for a "would be Skyfather". I would rank him as High Herald or Trans as best, Thor with OF too btw.



Calling the kettle black? Bor doesn't have the feats to prove that he can contend with DS.

...

Umm... OF Thor would run through DCnU JLA like a sheet of wax paper.

@Batman Prime...

What durability fts does anyone on the DCNU JLA have that proves they can withstand a hit that would kill an average Thor. Please provide scans.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

Umm... OF Thor would run through DCnU JLA like a sheet of wax paper.

I doubt it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

Umm... OF Thor would run through DCnU JLA like a sheet of wax paper.

Lol...that's why I said he is talking OTA.

Originally posted by carver9
@Batman Prime...

What durability fts does anyone on the DCNU JLA have that proves they can withstand a hit that would kill an average Thor. Please provide scans.

facepalm

You know it's time for you to go out, buy some DC Comics and start to read them. Looking at selected scans won't do it.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I doubt it.

That's your prerogative I guess, but based on feats no member of the DCnU JLA holds a candle to classic Thor, never mind Odin Force Thor. Thor would roll through them like a out of control wreaking ball.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That's your prerogative I guess, but based on feats no member of the DCnU JLA holds a candle to classic Thor, never mind Odin Force Thor.

Imho, from what I have seen from OF Thor and what I remember from Classic Thor, I used to read mostly Marvel comics during that time tbh. Classic thor was far more impressive and powerful then OF Thor. The same is true for Classic Odin and current Odin.

Based on his high end feats and low end feats OF Thor is Herald, nothing more.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He took on a Team that was more powerful then OF Thor and their only option was BFR. He also was easily manipulated by Loki. Superman or GL with Shields would survive that blow imho, Diana would use her bracer for defense. Bor wasn't impressive at all. OF was dominated by Rulk. Nothing bad since Rulk had the Loeb force but still.

BFR via OE is different then your average BFR and it would be enough.

I saw that Bor vs OF thor fight and it was lame for a "would be Skyfather". I would rank him as High Herald or Trans as best, Thor with OF too btw.

Well, looks like some context is needed for this post.

More powerful as a whole, sure. More powerful individually? Not a chance. He was manipulated by a prepped Loki who took advantage of Bor's defenses being raised. DCnU Superman and Green Lantern don't have the feats that classic Thor has, and that much is obvious. And that wasn't even a solid strike from Bor who tapped into his power as a whole. The only real argument is Diana being able to block with her bracers, and even she hasn't displayed anything from the DCnU to justify her taking on Bor and winning, let alone surviving. Not sure why Bor isn't impressive in your eyes unless you just gloss over the context of his feats. And Rulk was using Loebforce/power absorbing to beat OF Thor, so again, moot point.

Bor could block the OE with his axe.

OF Thor is solidly above High Herald. Looking at his feats and comparing them to classic/current Thor and it's clear that OF Thor >>> Thor without the Odin Force. Normal Thor doesn't tank Destroyer's attacks nor survive attacks that would have killed him easily. So, yes, both OF Thor and Bor above High Heralds and you're wrong in your assessment of both power levels as evidenced by the comics themselves.

So what else do you have?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Imho, from what I have seen from OF Thor and what I remember from Classic Thor, I used to read mostly Marvel comics during that time tbh. Classic thor was far more impressive and powerful then OF Thor. The same is true for Classic Odin and current Odin.

Well yeah, if we compare Classic Thor's greatest feats to Odin Force Thor's greatest feats, chances are classic Thor will look better. But the amp was there and the intention was shown by his ability to resist attacks that would have killed him in the past with minor damage. There would have been no reason to give Thor an amp, then expect for the readers to conclude he was weaker.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Imho, from what I have seen from OF Thor and what I remember from Classic Thor, I used to read mostly Marvel comics during that time tbh. Classic thor was far more impressive and powerful then OF Thor. The same is true for Classic Odin and current Odin.

Based on his high end feats and low end feats OF Thor is Herald, nothing more.

Classic Thor gets killed by the Destroyer Armor. OF Thor tanks the disintegration beam and suffers only charred armor and minor burns. Classic Thor doesn't revive the entire Asgardian race or recreate Asgard from nothingness. OF Thor does. Classic Thor doesn't survive glancing blows from an enraged god by his own admission. Odin Force Thor does.

So, while this may be your opinion, it's not based on anything on panel.

Your argument is tantamount to arguing that because Savage Hulk has high end feats greater than anything done in WWH, he's more powerful than his Green Scar persona. Which is ridiculous considering their portrayal and supported evidence to the contrary.

Normal Thor is high herald. Thor with the Odin Force as portrayed by JMS is above that. Indisputable.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm

You know it's time for you to go out, buy some DC Comics and start to read them. Looking at selected scans won't do it.

Maybe you should buy some comics buddy. What I, Carver9 know is that Superman is the most durable on the JLA and he ran from a nuke and got koed from a hit that rammed his head into the moon. This doesn't include his other showings and again, he is the most durable on the team.

If this was pre reboot JLA, they would merk Bor but this version of JLA isn't ready yet.

Darkseid.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Darkseid.

facepalm

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, looks like some context is needed for this post.

More powerful as a whole, sure. More powerful individually? Not a chance. He was manipulated by a prepped Loki who took advantage of Bor's defenses being raised. DCnU Superman and Green Lantern don't have the feats that classic Thor has, and that much is obvious. And that wasn't even a solid strike from Bor who tapped into his power as a whole. The only real argument is Diana being able to block with her bracers, and even she hasn't displayed anything from the DCnU to justify her taking on Bor and winning, let alone surviving. Not sure why Bor isn't impressive in your eyes unless you just gloss over the context of his feats. And Rulk was using Loebforce/power absorbing to beat OF Thor, so again, moot point.

Bor could block the OE with his axe.

OF Thor is solidly above High Herald. Looking at his feats and comparing them to classic/current Thor and it's clear that OF Thor >>> Thor without the Odin Force. Normal Thor doesn't tank Destroyer's attacks nor survive attacks that would have killed him easily. So, yes, both OF Thor and Bor above High Heralds and you're wrong in your assessment of both power levels as evidenced by the comics themselves.

So what else do you have?

More powerful as a whole? So You agree, good boy. Speculations on your part, and I don't like Loeb so I will grant you this "shameful defeat" as a moot point.

The Oe could change directions before hitting the axe and strike his back *duh. Stupid game dur

Your opinion. So OF Thor strike send a shockwave through the whole cosmos? Or did he lift something as big as the Midgard Serpent? I don't think so. Classic feats were greater, so was Classic Odin, Classic Strange and Classic Destroyer. They don't write them this way anymore. So no, you are wrong.

Feats > Portrayals = Classic Thor (Classic Era) > OF Thor etc.
Portrayals > Feats = your only way to argue.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
More powerful as a whole? So You agree, good boy. Speculations on your part, and I don't like Loeb so I will grant you this "shamful defeat" as a moot point.

The Oe could change directions before hitting the axe and strike his back *duh. Stupid game dur

Your opinion. So OF Thor strike send a shockwave through the whole cosmos? Or did he lift something as big as the Midgard Serpent? I don't think so. Classic feats were greater, so was Classic Odin, Classic Strange and Classic Destroyer. They don't write them this way anymore. So no, you are wrong.

More powerful as a whole =/= actually winning. What's speculation on my part? Rulk absorbed his powers, as evidenced by how he was able to use Mjolnir's lightning when he struck Thor and no sell a direct hammer shot to the face. You not liking Loeb doesn't invalidate anything.

So now Darkseid's OE is unblockable and unavoidable....even though we clearly saw that it's not?

The difference between my opinion and yours is that mine is backed by comics. Christ, OF Thor clearly performs feats greater than what classic Thor can. The Destroyer hasn't changed in power level and neither has Odin Force-less Thor. And we see the very clear difference in their power level via feats and statements which are backed by actual on panel evidence.

Now you're basically just trolling and ignoring what's clear for everyone to see.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Feats > Portrayals = Classic Thor (Classic Era) > OF Thor etc.
Portrayals > Feats = your only way to argue.

This shit doesn't even make sense.

Classic Thor = Current Thor. High end feats don't change that and even Thor post 2007 has high end feats to rival Thor before his relaunch. And considering Thor never experienced an explicit power loss and argument to the contrary is asinine.

My argument is based on portrayals, feats, statements verified by feats, on panel evidence, and just common sense.

I mean, shit, how you can argue with a straight face that Thor without the Odin Force is more formidable than when he does have it? barker

Like I said, this is akin to arguing Savage/"Classic" Hulk > Green Scar because he has high end feats that trump the events of World War Hulk. Which is unilaterally stupid.

^DC had a Pre Crisis era, maybe it's time to accept that Marvel had something similar and the feats are now less impressive and "stupid" in favour of better stories?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
More powerful as a whole =/= actually winning. What's speculation on my part? Rulk absorbed his powers, as evidenced by how he was able to use Mjolnir's lightning when he struck Thor and no sell a direct hammer shot to the face. You not liking Loeb doesn't invalidate anything.

So now Darkseid's OE is unblockable and unavoidable....even though we clearly saw that it's not?

The difference between my opinion and yours is that mine is backed by comics. Christ, OF Thor clearly performs feats greater than what classic Thor can. The Destroyer hasn't changed in power level and neither has Odin Force-less Thor. And we see the very clear difference in their power level via feats and statements which are backed by actual on panel evidence.

Now you're basically just trolling and ignoring what's clear for everyone to see.

The Team would beat Bor more easily then DCnU Darkseid. And Darkseid had to be bfr by a force more powerful then OF Thor because he couldn't be killed by them. OF Thor wouldn't be able to beat DCnU DS the same way as he beat Bor. Simple.
Speculations about if Dianas Bracer will work against Bor or not facepalm
I agreed with you on the Loebforce being the reason for thors defeat.... You are making it hard for yourself facepalm2

So DS can't use his OE beams and changed their directions to strike an oponnent from behind, around a corner or things like that? dur

No, that's you opinion, don't pretend it's backed by comics or go and read some classic stuff again... Arrogance or a bad memory won't help you here and just because you say "this is true and backed by comics" doesn't makes it true, you are not that important and you are no authority here, so stop pretending,
They did, by feats, not by portrayal, you sole argument btw.


Now you don't like someone disagreeing what you, the authority you are, "declared" as facts. Really, your opinion is nothing more then what it is, your opinion. And it's nice to know that YOU know what everyone sees here... Christ... it's like arguing with a child.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The Team would beat Bor more easily then DCnU Darkseid. And Darkseid had to be bfr by a force more powerful then OF Thor because he couldn't be killed by them. OF Thor wouldn't be able to beat DCnU DS the same way as he beat Bor. Simple.
Speculations about if Dianas Bracer will work against Bor or not facepalm
I agreed with you on the Loebforce being thor defeat.... You are making it hard for yourself facepalm2

So DS can't use his OE beams and changed their directions to strike an oponnent from behind, around a corner or things like that? dur

No, that's you opinion, don't pretend it's backed by comics or go and read some classic stuff again... Arrogance or a bad memory won't help you here and just because you say "this is true and backed by comics" doesn't makes it true, you are not that important and you are o authority here, so stop pretending,
They did, by feats, not by portrayal, you sole argument btw.


Now you don't like someone disagreeing what you, the authority you are, "declared" as facts. Really, your opinion is nothing more then what it is, your opinion. And it's nice to know that YOU know what everyone sees here... Christ... it's like arguing with a child.

So you're telling me DCnU is beyond the means of normal Thor to brain with Mjolnir, let alone Odin Force Thor, who struck Bor hard enough to actually shatter Mjolnir?

What BFR is more powerful than Odin Force Thor's capability? Being the connoisseur of Thor you claim to be, I trust you're well informed on Thor's impressive spatial and dimensional warping powers, right?

Not really speculation when we haven't seen the upper limits of DCnU Diana's bracers. Could she block them? Possibly, sure. I won't apply a no limits fallacy to them though or attribute pre-Flashpoint's Diana's feats on to them because "it sounds right", either. I do know that DCnU Diana hasn't shown anything to suggest surviving an encounter with Bor, though.

I'm not making this anymore difficult than it already is. That'd be on you, buddy.

And Bor can't block the OE with his axe, use his own lazer eyes!!111 or just rush Darkseid and attack him head on?

Lmao, it is totally based on comics. Stop trolling and trying to legitimately argue Thor w/o the OF > Thor w/ the OF. I'm not being arrogant here at all, either. I'm literally telling you what the comics support by feats and statements and portrayals. You can not like it as much as you want. Doesn't make your opinion any more valid (which it's not).

It's one thing to argue and have a differing opinion about something that could have possible answers or outcomes. In the case of Thor and OF Thor, however, it's not. You're literally arguing against respective on panel evidence show casing the different in power and formidability, statements showing us he's more powerful than before, and simple logic that Thor with an amp is more powerful than he is without an amp.

Seriously, this is outright trolling on your part.

TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

Anyway, Bor wins this easily.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

Anyway, Bor wins this easily. On average?

Not at all.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

Anyway, Bor wins this easily.

He's not. Him having high end feats doesn't mean that he's more powerful than a Thor with an explicit amp.

"Classic" Savage Hulk has high end feats greater than the feats displayed in WWH. No one sane would argue Savage Hulk > Green Scar.

Bryne Superman has some high end feats which are more impressive than the abysmal James Robinson' run of Superman right before Flashpoint and DCnU. No one sane would argue that Superman > than pre-reboot Superman.

This is simple logic we're talking about here.

Originally posted by Mindset
On average?

Fair enough. I only really see his high end feats like lifting the Midgard Serpent and stopping the galaxy destroying bomb.

I guess people treat him like PC Superman in that respect.

Originally posted by Mindset
Not at all.

I'm curious, why? I haven't been that impressed by any members of the Justice League in the DCnU yet.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...
Current Thor has high-end feats as recent as defeating Glory , crippling Zelia , clipping the Phoenix Force's wings . There are probably more bu that's besides the point .

A few high end feats here and there don't automatically become a character's average .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So you're telling me DCnU is beyond the means of normal Thor to brain with Mjolnir, let alone Odin Force Thor, who struck Bor hard enough to actually shatter Mjolnir?

What BFR is more powerful than Odin Force Thor's capability? Being the connoisseur of Thor you claim to be, I trust you're well informed on Thor's impressive spatial and dimensional warping powers, right?

Not really speculation when we haven't seen the upper limits of DCnU Diana's bracers. Could she block them? Possibly, sure. I won't apply a no limits fallacy to them though or attribute pre-Flashpoint's Diana's feats on to them because "it sounds right", either. I do know that DCnU Diana hasn't shown anything to suggest surviving an encounter with Bor, though.

I'm not making this anymore difficult than it already is. That'd be on you, buddy.

And Bor can't block the OE with his axe, use his own lazer eyes!!111 or just rush Darkseid and attack him head on?

Lmao, it is totally based on comics. Stop trolling and trying to legitimately argue Thor w/o the OF > Thor w/ the OF. I'm not being arrogant here at all, either. I'm literally telling you what the comics support by feats and statements and portrayals. You can not like it as much as you want. Doesn't make your opinion any more valid (which it's not).

It's one thing to argue and have a differing opinion about something that could have possible answers or outcomes. In the case of Thor and OF Thor, however, it's not. You're literally arguing against respective on panel evidence show casing the different in power and formidability, statements showing us he's more powerful than before, and simple logic that Thor with an amp is more powerful than he is without an amp.

Seriously, this is outright trolling on your part.

DCnU? Like the whole DCnU? Be clearer...

OE. I won't do your work... You are trolling now.

You wrote "Could she block them? Possibly, sure. " That is speculation. Isn't it? Oh boy... I'm wasting my time here.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not true, anyway.

So rushing and trying to block as you say is a 100% sucess, while DS isn't allowed to change the direction of the OE or use them to strike Bor in the back? Ok I get it, you want Bor desperately to win...

So you admitted that Classic Thors high end feats are > OF Thors feats. That's how it is and that's why Classic Thor was more impressive. You Don't like it? Not my prob. Statements and portrayals won't change this. Common sense btw.

So it's time to stop this.
Odin shaking Galaxies and Dimensions > Odin headbutting Galacuts.
Classic Thor sending shockwaves through the cosmos, lifting the midgard serpent and making Galactus flee with his tail between his legs > anything he has done with the OF.

I explained my stance, you don't have to understand it, and judged this figth according to the actual power levels. Disagree as much as you want, we are done.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
DCnU? Like the whole DCnU? Be clearer...

OE. I won't do your work... You are trolling now.

You wrote "Could she block them? Possibly, sure. " That is speculation. Isn't it? Oh boy... I'm wasting my time here.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not true, anyway.

So rushing and trying to block as you say is a 100% sucess, while DS isn't allowed to change the direction of the OE or use them to strike Bor in the back? Ok I get it, you want Bor desperately to win...

So you admitted that Classic Thors high end feats are > OF Thors feats. That's how it is and that's why Classic Thor was more impressive. You Don't like it? Not my prob. Statements and portrayals won't change this. Common sense btw.

So it's time to stop this.
Odin shaking Galaxies and Dimensions > Odin headbutting Galacuts.
Classic Thor sending shockwaves through the cosmos, lifting the midgard serpent and making Galactus flee with his tail between his legs > anything he has done with the OF.

I explained my stance, you don't have to understand it, and judge this figth according to the actual power levels. Disagree as much as you want, we are done.

I'm as clear as humanly possible here in this thread.

Lol, how am I trolling here? Be concise.

Speculation that's actually reasonable based on on-panel evidence from each character thus far. If you want to assume the bracers are on a level they've not shown to be at just yet, be my guest. Assume away.

I'm not the one desperately wanting Bor to win at all. I merely asked based on what does Darkseid "stomp" to which you replied with some out of context reasoning and deductions which, in your mind, somehow equal OF Thor being a mere high herald and not clearly beyond Thor w/o the OF. And as an extension, Bor is a mere high herald as well. You're quite literally ignoring every shred of evidence to the contrary while screaming "CLASSIC THOR!!!" which is ironic, considering the breadth of knowledge on Thor in general I have. Feel free to say I'm wrong, but really, being honest, I do have a strong grasp on what comics are blatantly telling and showing us.

Lol, don't be dense. Superman, without amps, sang Darkseid out of existence. He's not more powerful than Superman in close proximity to the sun or actually sundipped. High end feats are just that; high end feats. They don't make explicitly weaker forms of characters suddenly stronger than explicitly amped versions of characters just because they didn't "impress" you.

Yes, we've established what high end feats are.

Your stance is wrong, though. Like, to the point where it's not debatable. We clearly see stuff that normal Thor can't do from OF Thor. Therefore, he's more powerful than normal Thor. Debate: ended.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm as clear as humanly possible here in this thread.

Lol, how am I trolling here? Be concise.

Speculation that's actually reasonable based on on-panel evidence from each character thus far. If you want to assume the bracers are on a level they've not shown to be at just yet, be my guest. Assume away.

I'm not the one desperately wanting Bor to win at all. I merely asked based on what does Darkseid "stomp" to which you replied with some out of context reasoning and deductions which, in your mind, somehow equal OF Thor being a mere high herald and not clearly beyond Thor w/o the OF. And as an extension, Bor is a mere high herald as well. You're quite literally ignoring every shred of evidence to the contrary while screaming "CLASSIC THOR!!!" which is ironic, considering the breadth of knowledge on Thor in general I have. Feel free to say I'm wrong, but really, being honest, I do have a strong grasp on what comics are blatantly telling and showing us.

Lol, don't be dense. Superman, without amps, sang Darkseid out of existence. He's not more powerful than Superman in close proximity to the sun or actually sundipped. High end feats are just that; high end feats. They don't make explicitly weaker forms of characters suddenly stronger than explicitly amped versions of characters just because they didn't "impress" you.

Yes, we've established what high end feats are.

Your stance is wrong, though. Like, to the point where it's not debatable. We clearly see stuff that normal Thor can't do from OF Thor. Therefore, he's more powerful than normal Thor. Debate: ended.

It ended, you are wrong good job.

Is Darkseid the same as the one before the reboot like he was technically the same pre and post-crisis, or is he a whole new character?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
It ended, you are wrong good job.

Concession accepted, I suppose.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Is Darkseid the same as the one before the reboot like he was technically the same pre and post-crisis, or is he a whole new character?

He's a different being.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Is Darkseid the same as the one before the reboot like he was technically the same pre and post-crisis, or is he a whole new character?

Probably different as he was looking for his daughter. He never had a daughter before, right?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Concession accepted, I suppose.

Wrong again, you should be used to it by now.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Wrong again, you should be used to it by now.

Let's be honest here among our peers.

I'm totally correct in the belief that Odin Force Thor was and is more powerful than Thor without the Odin Force, regardless of what era you want to pluck him from. To argue otherwise would be:

-Ignoring on panel evidence showing this fact.
-Ignoring statements which actually verify this fact.
-Ignoring the vast history of the Odin Force explicitly amping characters.
-Ignoring plain ol' common sense that an explicitly stated/shown amp makes someone more powerful than without it.

Not sure how you can retreat from the discussion at hand and then have the gall to claim I'm wrong when you haven't even successfully made a halfway decent rebuttal.

So, yeah, concession accepted.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Let's be honest here among our peers.

I'm totally correct in the belief that Odin Force Thor was and is more powerful than Thor without the Odin Force, regardless of what era you want to pluck him from. To argue otherwise would be:

-Ignoring on panel evidence showing this fact.
-Ignoring statements which actually verify this fact.
-Ignoring the vast history of the Odin Force explicitly amping characters.
-Ignoring plain ol' common sense that an explicitly stated/shown amp makes someone more powerful than without it.

Not sure how you can retreat from the discussion at hand and then have the gall to claim I'm wrong when you haven't even successfully made a halfway decent rebuttal.

So, yeah, concession accepted.

facepalm

You are either dense or you are pretending. I explained it to you pretty clear. You agreed at least to the high end feats and still you can't get it?

So yeah, you are wrong again. Nice try though.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm

You are either dense or you are pretending. I explained it to you pretty clear. You agreed at least to the high end feats and still you can't get it?

So yeah, you are wrong again. Nice try though.

You, somehow, think Classic Thor is > OF Thor and Bor because he did shit like lift the Midgard Serpent and caused rippling effects across time and space and other feats while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Odin Force Thor clearly tells us that without the Odin Force, he would have died from Bor's moderate attack and then performs feats well beyond the capability of Thor without the Odin Force.

And through this haphazard line of "logic" you've decided that OF Thor is merely a "high herald" and so is Bor, therefore DCnU Darkseid "stomps". Even though none of the DCnU League have the feats of classic Thor/OF Thor or Bor.

So, unfortunately, yes, I do understand your argument.

I still accept your concession, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You, somehow, think Classic Thor is > OF Thor and Bor because he did shit like lift the Midgard Serpent and caused rippling effects across time and space and other feats while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Odin Force Thor clearly tells us that without the Odin Force, he would have died from Bor's moderate attack and then performs feats well beyond the capability of Thor without the Odin Force.

And through this haphazard line of "logic" you've decided that OF Thor is merely a "high herald" and so is Bor, therefore DCnU Darkseid "stomps". Even though none of the DCnU League have the feats of classic Thor/OF Thor or Bor.

So, unfortunately, yes, I do understand your argument.

I still accept your concession, though.

so you aren't dense, just pretending, there is hope for you.

Beyond Thor in the modern age not classic maybe.

He is, by feats.

DCnU Darkseid proved to be > High Heralds.

Classic Thor =! OF Thor.

Great, so you are only trolling now.

In your dreams. You are delusional though, I give you that.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
so you aren't dense, just pretending, there is hope for you.

Beyond Thor in the modern age not classic maybe.

He is, by feats.

DCnU Darkseid proved to be > High Heralds.

Classic Thor =! OF Thor.

Great, so you are only trolling now.

In your dreams. You are delusional though, I give you that.

baka Irony.

Except he's not. Classic Thor whether handled by Lee, Thomas, Starlin, Simonson, Busiek, Jurgens or everyone else in between doesn't hit people hard enough to shatter Mjolnir, no sell the Destroyer (which has and always has been consistent in power level and has actually KILLED Classic Thor), recreate Asgard and its inhabitants, and survive blows which would have explicitly killed him had been without the Odin Force. There is no room for argument here. Stop pretending eras of publication drastically effect Thor's power levels as a whole and somehow the descriptor "classic" makes him more powerful by feats or portrayal.

High heralds with feats inferior to those of Thor w/o the OF, let alone beings beyond that power level such as OF Thor and Bor.

Classic Thor < OF Thor. Christ on a cracker. facepalm What is so hard for you to understand about this simple logic? Thor + Odin Force = A significantly more powerful Thor.

I'm not trolling at all. Everything I've stated is backed by comics.

Moar irony.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
baka Irony.

Except he's not. Classic Thor whether handled by Lee, Thomas, Starlin, Simonson, Busiek, Jurgens or everyone else in between doesn't hit people hard enough to shatter Mjolnir, no sell the Destroyer (which has and always has been consistent in power level and has actually KILLED Classic Thor), recreate Asgard and its inhabitants, and survive blows which would have explicitly killed him had been without the Odin Force. There is no room for argument here. Stop pretending eras of publication drastically effect Thor's power levels as a whole and somehow the descriptor "classic" makes him more powerful by feats or portrayal.

High heralds with feats inferior to those of Thor w/o the OF, let alone beings beyond that power level such as OF Thor and Bor.

Classic Thor < OF Thor. Christ on a cracker. facepalm What is so hard for you to understand about this simple logic? Thor + Odin Force = A significantly more powerful Thor.

I'm not trolling at all. Everything I've stated is backed by comics.

Moar irony.

You are talking crap, again...

Classic Thors high end feats > OF Thors feats. there is no room for arguments here.

Your logic isn't simple, it's simply wrong. Modern era Thor + OF > modern era Thor. Nothing more, really.

facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You are talking crap, again...

Classic Thors high end feats > OF Thors feats. there is no room for arguments here.

Your logic isn't simple, it's simply wrong. Modern era Thor + OF > modern era Thor. Nothing more, really.

facepalm

Classic Thor having high end feats doesn't make him more powerful than Odin Force Thor. Stop trying to spin things to make it the opposite. And Classic Thor still got killed outright by the very same attack Odin Force Thor no sold. That alone should speak volumes over their disparity in power. This is getting ridiculous and downright retarded. And I know all of Thor's high end feats to speak of.

My logic is air-tight. And again, seeing as how Thor, regardless of the era, has had high end feats, slapping "classic" in front of his name doesn't make him more formidable than Odin Force Thor.

Originally posted by ares834
Fair enough. I only really see his high end feats like lifting the Midgard Serpent and stopping the galaxy destroying bomb.

I guess people treat him like PC Superman in that respect.



I'm curious, why? I haven't been that impressed by any members of the Justice League in the DCnU yet. I was commenting on your first sentence.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You are talking crap, again...

Classic Thors high end feats > OF Thors feats. there is no room for arguments here.

Your logic isn't simple, it's simply wrong. Modern era Thor + OF > modern era Thor. Nothing more, really.

facepalm Classic Thor's high end feats > King Thor high end feats also.

But even though King Thor never lifted anything as heavy as the Midgard Serpent, or contained a 1/5th universe destroying bomb, or blew a hole in a Celestial, nobody's that stupid enough to suggest that classic Thor is more powerful than King Thor.

Well... except maybe for you apparently. To each his own I guess.

Originally posted by carver9
Maybe you should buy some comics buddy. What I, Carver9 know is that Superman is the most durable on the JLA and he ran from a nuke and got koed from a hit that rammed his head into the moon. This doesn't include his other showings and again, he is the most durable on the team.

If this was pre reboot JLA, they would merk Bor but this version of JLA isn't ready yet.

Stop talking.

==========

For everyone else:

OF Thor is obviously more powerful than Classic Thor due to the fact that he had the Odin Force. Simple.

DCNU Darkseid has very little in the way of actual feats to put him = Classic Thor, tbh, so OF Thor is a bit of a push. I don't see how people can argue for Darkseid in the slightest when the dude was in like, THREE comics, facing off against a team with highly ambiguous power levels.

Usually on the VS we ban threads with characters like that (same with Bor), so I'm not even sure that he should be allowed either.

^ I never understood why this whole DCnU Superman running from a nuke thing got any traction at all. How many characters willingly stay in a nuclear blast for sh1ts and giggles anyway?

Originally posted by ODG
^ I never understood why this whole DCnU Superman running from a nuke thing got any traction at all. How many characters willingly stay in a nuclear blast for sh1ts and giggles anyway?

Carver's desperation to make the guy look bad. That's about it.

Originally posted by ODG
^ I never understood why this whole DCnU Superman running from a nuke thing got any traction at all. How many characters willingly stay in a nuclear blast for sh1ts and giggles anyway? Juggs and IF.

Originally posted by ODG
^ I never understood why this whole DCnU Superman running from a nuke thing got any traction at all. How many characters willingly stay in a nuclear blast for sh1ts and giggles anyway?

the manly ones

Originally posted by -Pr-
Carver's desperation to make the guy look bad. That's about it.

No.

Originally posted by Damborgson
the manly ones

Amen, BROTHER!

Originally posted by carver9
No.

Yup.

Originally posted by ODG
Classic Thor's high end feats > King Thor high end feats also.

Well... except maybe for you apparently. To each his own I guess.

I never mentioned King Thor, like ever in this thread. Good job at bringing in a new char and putting words in my mouth i never spelled.

facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I never mentioned King Thor, like ever in this thread. Good job at bringing in a new char and putting words in my mouth i never spelled.

facepalm

It's the exact same principal, though.

King Thor is obviously more powerful than Odin Force Thor, who in turn, is obviously more powerful than Classic/Current Thor. High end feats don't change that.

Originally posted by ODG
^ I never understood why this whole DCnU Superman running from a nuke thing got any traction at all. How many characters willingly stay in a nuclear blast for sh1ts and giggles anyway?

Lobo did that once

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's the exact same principal, though.

King Thor is obviously more powerful than Odin Force Thor, who in turn, is obviously more powerful than Classic/Current Thor. High end feats don't change that.

So I guess you both are a dynamic duo now? As desperate as you are, I won't play the game and argue against King Thor here. There is no reason to bring him into this discussion except desperation... You can both try as hard as you want.

facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So I guess you both are a dynamic duo now? As desperate as you are, I won't play the game and argue against King Thor here. There is no reason to bring him into this discussion except desperation... You can both try as hard as you want.

facepalm

Really?

There's no desperation here at all. ODG pointed out that Classic Thor indeed does have high end feats beyond King Thor (not that you brought him up) but that no one in their right mind would argue Classic Thor > King Thor. It's the exact same principal here concerning Odin Force Thor. He's clearly more powerful than Classic Thor by feats.

Not sure how he bringing up King Thor as an example, much like how I used Savage Hulk/Green Scar and Superman and his various incarnations as examples is "desperate" at all.

You were wrong in your assumption. Just own up to it and move on.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Really?

There's no desperation here at all. ODG pointed out that Classic Thor indeed does have high end feats beyond King Thor (not that you brought him up) but that no one in their right mind would argue Classic Thor > King Thor. It's the exact same principal here concerning Odin Force Thor. He's clearly more powerful than Classic Thor by feats.

Not sure how he bringing up King Thor as an example, much like how I used Savage Hulk/Green Scar and Superman and his various incarnations as examples is "desperate" at all.

You were wrong in your assumption. Just own up to it and move on.

Really.

Desperation or ... I don't want to insult anyones intelligence.

It's not the same principle, because King Thor > OF thor, or don't you agree that King thor was more powerful then Of Thor?

Your examples weren't good either, you know it but to each his own right.

I wasn't and my stance is absolutely right Classic Thor was more impressive then OF Thor.

Head your own adivce.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I never mentioned King Thor, like ever in this thread. Good job at bringing in a new char and putting words in my mouth i never spelled.

facepalm Don't be obtuse.

Your rationale behind classic Thor being superior to OF Thor revolved around high end feats. It's true classic Thor's highest end feats are greater than OF Thor's highest end feats (save for matter manipulation). So I just showed you exactly how shallow and narrow-minded that is, since by that insipid standard, classic Thor is more powerful than King Thor (who has no high end feats matching classic Thor's best).

Nobody's being fooled that you're so dumb even you can't see this. You're not establishing any pretense or room to maneuver around this simple deconstruction of your shallow assertions. So do us all a favor and stop pretending to be stupid or clueless because you want to drag out this charade any further. It's boring.



Anyway, Bor should win pretty handily. Darkseid no selling Hal's attacks was very impressive. But Bor, at the very least, was clearly a greater threat than the Destroyer armor. I thought maybe Bor's ability to deal with the Omega Effect could be a little dicey, but then I remembered that Diana just blocked it with her cuffs.

Which wouldn't seem so bad except that Diana's cuffs were completely penetrated by a bullet from Eros' gun. They ain't exactly your dad's WW bracers anymore. So Bor's axe would very likely be able to block the Omega Effect. Originally posted by Endless Mike
Lobo did that once Main Man don't mess around.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Really.

Desperation or ... I don't want to insult anyones intelligence.

It's not the same principle, because King Thor > OF thor, or don't you agree that King thor was more powerful then Of Thor?

Your examples weren't good either, you know it but to each his own right.

I wasn't and my stance is absolutely right Classic Thor was more impressive then OF Thor.

Head your own adivce.

Are you really not getting this?

Are you actually arguing that a character with high end feats is superior to a character that while lacking those high end feats, is attributed with a very explicit and notable amp to their overall power and formidability which is backed up by on panel evidence showcasing that amp?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Are you really not getting this?

Are you actually arguing that a character with high end feats is superior to a character that while lacking those high end feats, is attributed with a very explicit and notable amp to their overall power and formidability which is backed up by on panel evidence showcasing that amp?

Oh I think I understand now what YOu are not getting.

No.
I argue that the SAME character from a different Comic era iow the classic age, was more powerful because he had more impressive feats then he is now. That kind of "depowering" through the decades isn't something new actually.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Oh I think I understand now what YOu are not getting.

No.
I argue that the SAME character from a different Comic era iow the classic age, was more powerful because he had more impressive feats then he is now. That kind of "depowering" through the decades isn't something new actually. Same sh1t. Enough with this tired act. Trying to disguise it with different sentence structure doesn't ground it in a different foundation.

King Thor, at the time he was the only Thor around and wasn't retconned yet, was in the same situation. Based on your arguments, classic Thor was more powerful because he had more impressive feats than King Thor had. A depowerment, despite the story mandated empowerment. Because of high end feats, you see.

Which again, is stupid. Because you only had to see King Thor defeat the Destroyer and tank his attacks to understand he was clearly more powerful than classic Thor (who always got romped or outright killed by it). Which, ironically, also holds true for OF Thor.

Your guileless attempt at diminishing current Thor or OF Thor in comparison to classic Thor holds no water.

Current Thor killed Durok without Mjolnir (whereas classic Thor got romped and tasked Surfer to deal with him). Current Thor outfought an amped WWH who had help (whereas classic Thor just about always matched Savage Hulk). Current Thor managed to break off chunks of Galactus' helmet (whereas classic Thor hit Galactus' helmet and got called a gnat). Current Thor when weakened defeated Mangog (whereas classic Thor was always rag dolled by him). Current Thor beats the stuffing out of the entire Wrecking Crew in two pages (whereas classic Thor took an entire issue to beat just the Wrecker). OF Thor curbstomped an upgraded Extremis Iron Man in three moves (whereas a lesser Iron Man used to last far longer than that). OF Thor simply recreated Asgard out of thin air (whereas classic Thor did nothing even close to that). And like I said, OF Thor defeated the Destroyer armor and tanked its ultimate attack outright (whereas classic Thor always got romped and literally murdered by its ultimate attack).

And that doesn't even broach all the other high end feats like clipping the wings of the raw Phoenixforce, defeating Glory, staggering Chaos King, etc. So really, whatever feeble myth you're trying to foment here about classic > current Thor, is just contradicted by feats.

And your appeal to the differences between the classic age and the current age is rather misguided if not completely ignorant. Frankly, almost across the line, Marvel characters are far more powerful than they used to be. That includes obvious examples like Hulk, Silver Surfer, Dr. Doom, Xavier, Magneto, Thanos, Annihilus, Scarlet Witch, Galactus, etc. And disregarding the polar extremes of pre-Crisis and the New 52, that also applies to DC's characters like Superman, Lobo, Wonder Woman, Flash(es), Martian Manhunter, Darkseid, Cheetah, Professor Zoom, Sinestro, Aquaman, etc. So whatever surcease you sought from that tired generalization falls rather flat.

In sum, you're not fooling anybody.

^King Thor again? Don't put words in my mouth to suit your needs, capice?

Just because you lack the necessary understanding doesn't excuse your behavior.

As said King Thor > OF Thor.

It's not a myth and well, classic thor fought classic enemies, not a hard concept to grasp, really. kinda

And no, Thor was still more impressive during the classic days. I used to read those comics and can compare it to his modern age self.

facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^King Thor again? Don't put words in my mouth to suit your needs, capice?

Just because you lack the necessary understanding doesn't excuse your behavior.

As said King Thor > OF Thor.

It's not a myth and well, classic thor fought classic enemies, not a hard concept to grasp, really. kinda

And no, Thor was still more impressive during the classic days. I used to read those comics and can compare it to his modern age self. Not hard to understand you have nothing further to contribute.

And you never did.

But we knew that already, didn't we?

Originally posted by ODG
Not hard to understand you have nothing further to contribute.

And you never did.

But we knew that already, didn't we?

Actually, more then enough. It just needs an open mind and some research.

Coming from you, it's a compliment.

We? You should get some help, for this problem of yours.

^ Feigning bravado that rings hollower than your mother's vagina isn't going to gain you any traction. In case you didn't notice, everybody already saw through your tired act.

Score another win for you, though, amirite? How proud you must be to see threads turn out like this.

I think it's pretty obvious that Thor's current power levels are watered down BIG TIME from decades ago. I don't think we'll ever see him use magnetism, the anti-force, soul sucking, or any of these other exotic powers very often again...if ever. I doubt we'll see him swing his hammer 2x the speed of light again. He gets knocked out every other week. He's not immune to lightning anymore. Hell, I remember that it used to REFRESH HIM, now it knocks him out easier than it knocks out the Silver Surfer. The SS has taken NUMEROUS bolts from Thor, whereas Thor has been ONE SHOTTED by his own lightning. Thor's strength currently, is lower than it's ever been. He used to be able to stalemate the Hulk in strength, now the Hulk treats him like a rag doll. I'll bet the Hulk could currently over power Thor's entire body with one arm.

Also, Thor is now tied to his hammer, so if that breaks, he DIES. Obviously, this current Thor IS DIFFERENT than classic Thor. Maybe he lost some of his own power when he lost the OF....who knows. Also, I don't remember classic Thor's hammer able to be held by others in zero gravity, like this one can.

^


@ODG insulting people over the internet and their Parents, wow you are tough, really. kinda

Yeah, I did pretty well in the Bor vs Avengers thread which was closed because of me... wait, it wasn't me, amirite?

You are welcome to continue this with me over PM. It doesn't has to be closed like Bor vs Avengers, right?

^ Wait. Now you're pulling the crying e-victim act? Alright. I'll stop.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
I think it's pretty obvious that Thor's current power levels are watered down BIG TIME from decades ago. I don't think we'll ever see him use magnetism, the anti-force, soul sucking, or any of these other exotic powers very often again...if ever. I doubt we'll see him swing his hammer 2x the speed of light again. He gets knocked out every other week. He's not immune to lightning anymore. Hell, I remember that it used to REFRESH HIM, now it knocks him out easier than it knocks out the Silver Surfer. The SS has taken NUMEROUS bolts from Thor, whereas Thor has been ONE SHOTTED by his own lightning. Thor's strength currently, is lower than it's ever been. He used to be able to stalemate the Hulk in strength, now the Hulk treats him like a rag doll. I'll bet the Hulk could currently over power Thor's entire body with one arm.

Also, Thor is now tied to his hammer, so if that breaks, he DIES. Obviously, this current Thor IS DIFFERENT than classic Thor. Maybe he lost some of his own power when he lost the OF....who knows. Also, I don't remember classic Thor's hammer able to be held by others in zero gravity, like this one can.

You should really look at Thor's feats from early, mid, and late 2000's, then, if you really think Thor has been watered down exponentially in terms of power. And comparing how Thor dealt with a weaker Hulk as to how he deals with a Hulk who's been written the highest he's ever been consistently doesn't make Thor any weaker. I can numerous high end feats from "current" Thor that rival the things he's done from the "classic" era.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Wait. Now you're pulling the crying e-victim act? Alright. I'll stop.

No, I stay polite, contrary to you. And there are no victims in the internetforums like here, just people who try to act tough and insulting because they can't win an argument. I pity them. Yeah, stop, it's better or write me a PM. Tough guy

^ Oh, yeah. Super polite. Want some choice quotes between you and JaketheBank posted? But it's an important thing to feel bullied. If you feel bullied, I'll stop. Then again, nobody else noticed you decided to completely stop talking about comics and make things solely about you and me.

And no, I've never seen that happen before. kinda Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You should really look at Thor's feats from early, mid, and late 2000's, then, if you really think Thor has been watered down exponentially in terms of power. And comparing how Thor dealt with a weaker Hulk as to how he deals with a Hulk who's been written the highest he's ever been consistently doesn't make Thor any weaker. Don't be silly. Fighting the most powerful Hulk ever makes Thor weaker then when he struggled with Savage Hulk. C'mon, man.

Originally posted by ODG
Don't be silly. Fighting the most powerful Hulk ever makes Thor weaker then when he struggled with Savage Hulk. C'mon, man.

I know, right?

I mean, it's obvious that Green Scar and even "current Savage Hulk" is superior in this Post-Pak world than he was decades ago.

Hell, the fact an injured Thor was able to forcibly BFR Nul Hulk (Green Scar w/ an Asgardian hammer) with a single strike should speak VOLUMES as to current Thor's formidability.

^ Let's not get carried away here. Angrir hitting Thor clearly caused feedback and ended up depowering this amped WWH down to Gray Hulk levels.

There really is no arguing with the FACT that Thor BEFORE he got the Odin Force is DIFFERENT than Thor AFTER he lost the Odin Force.

1) His lifeforce is now tied to his hammer, if it breaks, he dies. This is an indisputable fact. This alone makes "classic" (and by classic I mean before gaining the OF) Thor and current Thor different.

2) He used to be REFRESHED by lightning. Currently, it seems to be a WEAKNESS of his. He's been one shot KO'ed twice by it. Clearly this ability of his has vanished.

Who knows what other of these exotic classic powers have now vanished? If that one did, others could to. I don't think he can still control magnetism, for instance. Hell, if they "forget" about a power as fundamental to a THUNDER GOD as lightning immunity, I'm sure magnetic control is now out the window too.

That's a warning for trolling and flaming ODG. We've had too many reports since you started posting again. Any more trouble and it will be another temp ban. Does five-fold understanding comprehend?

Originally posted by keiththegreat
There really is no arguing with the FACT that Thor BEFORE he got the Odin Force is DIFFERENT than Thor AFTER he lost the Odin Force.

1) His lifeforce is now tied to his hammer, if it breaks, he dies. This is an indisputable fact. This alone makes "classic" (and by classic I mean before gaining the OF) Thor and current Thor different.

2) He used to be REFRESHED by lightning. Currently, it seems to be a WEAKNESS of his. He's been one shot KO'ed twice by it. Clearly this ability of his has vanished.

Who knows what other of these exotic classic powers have now vanished? If that one did, others could to. I don't think he can still control magnetism, for instance. Hell, if they "forget" about a power as fundamental to a THUNDER GOD as lightning immunity, I'm sure magnetic control is now out the window too.

1.) Their power levels aren't any different than before as a whole. Current Thor has high end feats as good or in some cases better than high end feats from Classic Thor. His life force being tied to the hammer doesn't change that.

2.) Even Classic Thor has been phased by lightning before. It's no more bizarre than Thor using Mjolnir to take an enemy's own energy and then send it back to them (before he opts to channel up to x100 force). And nine times out of ten, said target gets staggered by their own attack/energies.

Speculation. Thor nowadays certainly resorts to brute force instead of finesse, but Mjolnir hasn't lost any of its absorbing capabilities (as we've seen in AvX). In any case, Thor's still overall just as powerful as he's consistently been through out the decades.

Originally posted by ODG
Current Thor killed Durok without Mjolnir (whereas classic Thor got romped and tasked Surfer to deal with him). Current Thor outfought an amped WWH who had help (whereas classic Thor just about always matched Savage Hulk). Current Thor managed to break off chunks of Galactus' helmet (whereas classic Thor hit Galactus' helmet and got called a gnat). Current Thor when weakened defeated Mangog (whereas classic Thor was always rag dolled by him). Current Thor beats the stuffing out of the entire Wrecking Crew in two pages (whereas classic Thor took an entire issue to beat just the Wrecker). OF Thor curbstomped an upgraded Extremis Iron Man in three moves (whereas a lesser Iron Man used to last far longer than that). OF Thor simply recreated Asgard out of thin air (whereas classic Thor did nothing even close to that). And like I said, OF Thor defeated the Destroyer armor and tanked its ultimate attack outright (whereas classic Thor always got romped and literally murdered by its ultimate attack).

And that doesn't even broach all the other high end feats like clipping the wings of the raw Phoenixforce, defeating Glory, staggering Chaos King, etc. So really, whatever feeble myth you're trying to foment here about classic > current Thor, is just contradicted by feats. No, I mean, ignoring the entirety of that breakdown and every single Thor comic that's being published for the last dozen years or so, you have a strong point. Especially on that lightning hurting Thor part. Since classic Thor got hurt by lightning before too. Reread the old Thor vs Masterson Thor fight. But yea, you're actually displaying good judgment here.

I'm convinced.

OF thor is more powerful than classic thor. How is it debated is beyond me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
OF thor is more powerful than classic thor. How is it debated is beyond me.

QFT.

I never said OF Thor is weaker than Classic Thor. I was just using OF Thor as my benchmark to say when I think he became weaker. But I do believe Current Thor is weaker than Classic Thor. At least in terms of how many powers he has, and strength and durability. But energy manipulation appears to be equal.

Pretty sure Abhi is referring to Batman-Prime's argument, not yours.

I do think Classic Thor thought more outside of the box than Current Thor does, who's basically handled like a brute under Fraction. But in terms of power level, I see no discernible difference.

Fraction's thor is the most powerful standard thor till date. Avengers Assemble thor is the weakest standard thor till date. AVX thor is in-between, he still has the jobber aura of classic thor which makes cosmics job to him but he's no longer pulling powers out of his ass and isn't the most powerful guy around, hulk is.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I do think Classic Thor thought more outside of the box than Current Thor does, who's basically handled like a brute under Fraction. But in terms of power level, I see no discernible difference. Seems the opposite to me. Recently, he's done stuff like call upon Gaea's power (twice), used three godblasts, used divine transformative energy lightning, cosmic hurricanes, localized emps, planetary radio transmission manipulation, and then he's even displayed really random esoteric abilities like speaking any language with All-Tongue, seeing and touching past tesseract dimensions, and that whole faith spark thing against Glory.

Originally posted by ODG
Seems the opposite to me. Recently, he's done stuff like call upon Gaea's power (twice), used three godblasts, used divine transformative energy lightning, cosmic hurricanes, localized emps, planetary radio transmission manipulation, and then he's even displayed really random esoteric abilities like speaking any language with All-Tongue, seeing and touching past tesseract dimensions, and that whole faith spark thing against Glory.

mmm Good point.

What I don't see anymore is his weather manipulation abilities. Classic Thor had some crazee precise control of tornadoes/whirlwinds.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What I don't see anymore is his weather manipulation abilities. Classic Thor had some crazee precise control of tornadoes/whirlwinds.

Current Thor still uses tornadoes and whirlwinds. Heck, he called upon hundreds of hurricanes against Glory.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What I don't see anymore is his weather manipulation abilities. Classic Thor had some crazee precise control of tornadoes/whirlwinds. He used winds, rain and snow all in quick succession against Engel fire in one of the latest issues of Mighty Thor. Off the top of my head, he called down AoE lightning to burn the pyres after Siege and a ring of AoE lightning to blast away Glory's remnants. He used whirlwinds against the raw Phoenixforce. He used whirlwinds to save a jetliner when Nova crashed into it. Used that huge whirlwind to send boobytrapped Janet away to another dimension in Secret Invasion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
OF thor is more powerful than classic thor. How is it debated is beyond me. When abhi is the voice of reason, you know something is wrong.

Originally posted by ODG
used three godblasts,
I only know of the one used against Scrier/Galactus/Other(I originally thought it wasn't a GB until Bran proved me wrong) . Which are the other 2 instances in which he used a GB ?

Originally posted by keiththegreat

1) His lifeforce is now tied to his hammer, if it breaks, he dies.

I'm not sure if that spell still holds, as it was dependent on the portion of the Odin Force previously residing in Thor. At this time, Odin was deceased. When Odin returned, however, I believe his full power was restored. In other words, the Odin Force no longer resides within Thor's hammer. My thinking is that the OF was clearly essential for the spell to work in the first place. Without it, I doubt Thor's lifeforce is still tied to Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Doon
I'm not sure if that spell still holds, as it was dependent on the portion of the Odin Force previously residing in Thor. At this time, Odin was deceased. When Odin returned, however, I believe his full power was restored. In other words, the Odin Force no longer resides within Thor's hammer. My thinking is that the OF was clearly essential for the spell to work in the first place. Without it, I doubt Thor's lifeforce is still tied to Mjolnir.
He sacrificed entire odinforce when strange remade mjolnir.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I only know of the one used against Scrier/Galactus/Other(I originally thought it wasn't a GB until Bran proved me wrong) . Which are the other 2 instances in which he used a GB ?

In general? To my recollection, Thor also used the godblast (or "the godforce" against Exitar (to no avail) and the Juggernaut as well.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He sacrificed entire odinforce when strange remade mjolnir.

I know. That's what I'm saying; and the spell that binds his lifeforce to the hammer was created using that same OF. Again, what I'm trying to convey is that Odin's return following those events may have altered the aforementioned spell. Thor inherited the OF in the first place because Odin died. When Odin recently came back, however, I believe the Odin Force was restored to his body. So, if Odin has his power back, then it no longer resides within Mjolnir; and the spell binding Thor's lifeforce to it is no longer active.

Originally posted by Doon
I know. That's what I'm saying; and the spell that binds his lifeforce to the hammer was created using that same OF. Again, what I'm trying to convey is that Odin's return following those events may have altered the aforementioned spell. Thor inherited the OF in the first place because Odin died. When Odin recently came back, however, I believe the Odin Force was restored to his body. So, if Odin has his power back, then it no longer resides within Mjolnir; and the spell binding Thor's lifeforce to it is no longer active.
That's just speculation tbh. Untill further expanded if mjolnir breaks thor dies.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I only know of the one used against Scrier/Galactus/Other(I originally thought it wasn't a GB until Bran proved me wrong) . Which are the other 2 instances in which he used a GB ? I'm referring to the attacks he used against Durok and Alter-Ego.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I only know of the one used against Scrier/Galactus/Other(I originally thought it wasn't a GB until Bran proved me wrong) . Which are the other 2 instances in which he used a GB ?

He was going to use one on Ego before he was talked out of it.

Originally posted by ODG
I'm referring to the attacks he used against Durok and Alter-Ego.
OK . These happened a few years ago , or in Fraction's recent Mighty Thor series ?

Edit : I found it . Thanks for telling .

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's just speculation tbh. Untill further expanded if mjolnir breaks thor dies.

So.. it has never been established -- on panel -- that Odin reacquired the Odin Force? If all the OF still resides within Thor's hammer, that means Odin took on Galactus bereft of his former powers/abilities. That said, it would certainly be interesting to know if the aforementioned info was disclosed. Anyone know if this subject was touched by Fraction at all?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Current Thor still uses tornadoes and whirlwinds. Heck, he called upon hundreds of hurricanes against Glory.

Originally posted by ODG
He used winds, rain and snow all in quick succession against Engel fire in one of the latest issues of Mighty Thor. Off the top of my head, he called down AoE lightning to burn the pyres after Siege and a ring of AoE lightning to blast away Glory's remnants. He used whirlwinds against the raw Phoenixforce. He used whirlwinds to save a jetliner when Nova crashed into it. Used that huge whirlwind to send boobytrapped Janet away to another dimension in Secret Invasion.

U guys have titles and issue #'s? I admit I haven't read much Thor since middle of Fear Itself event. Are they anything as crazee as him using tornadoes for transport of others without killing them? I always thought those were pretty wtf!! Those were some precise weather control.

Originally posted by Doon
So.. it has never been established -- on panel -- that Odin reacquired the Odin Force? If all the OF still resides within Thor's hammer, that means Odin took on Galactus bereft of his former powers/abilities. That said, it would certainly be interesting to know if the aforementioned info was disclosed. Anyone know if this subject was touched by Fraction at all?

its not in his hammer i thought. but it was used to repair it. im sure odin has replenished his own OF

Originally posted by keiththegreat
its not in his hammer i thought. but it was used to repair it. im sure odin has replenished his own OF

The way I understand the Odin Force is that, in the event of the original vessel's death, it is transferred to another vessel -- usually a blood relative. When Vili and Ve were killed, their combined energies were transferred to Odin; that's when the Odin power was born. So, when Odin died, Thor inherited the OF, right? This we know for sure. Now, I distinctly recall Straczynski stating that the OF was transferred to Mjolnir when Strange repaired it; in the process, Thor's lifeforce was somehow bonded to the hammer. That said, Odin doesn't "replenish" the OF. It either came back to him somehow (meaning that it no longer resides within Mjolnir) or it didn't come back to him. Now, personally, I also think it was transferred back to Odin (from the hammer), but that's only speculation. On these boards, we generally rely on what is shown/revealed on-panel. So, again, until it's been disclosed (and maybe it already has -- I don't read Fraction's work), we have no proof that the Odin Force no longer resides within Thor's hammer. If it DOES still reside in the hammer, then Odin is obviously less powerful than he once was.

When was it confirmed that the attack used on scrier, galactus, and othere was a godblast?

Originally posted by Doon
The way I understand the Odin Force is that, in the event of the original vessel's death, it is transferred to another vessel -- usually a blood relative. When Vili and Ve were killed, their combined energies were transferred to Odin; that's when the Odin power was born. So, when Odin died, Thor inherited the OF, right? This we know for sure. Now, I distinctly recall Straczynski stating that the OF was transferred to Mjolnir when Strange repaired it; in the process, Thor's lifeforce was somehow bonded to the hammer. That said, Odin doesn't "replenish" the OF. It either came back to him somehow (meaning that it no longer resides within Mjolnir) or it didn't come back to him. Now, personally, I also think it was transferred back to Odin (from the hammer), but that's only speculation. On these boards, we generally rely on what is shown/revealed on-panel. So, again, until it's been disclosed (and maybe it already has -- I don't read Fraction's work), we have no proof that the Odin Force no longer resides within Thor's hammer. If it DOES still reside in the hammer, then Odin is obviously less powerful than he once was.

idk, you could be right, i always just thought of the OF as something like the power cosmic. it exists in certain quantities in the universe and some can tap into it (like Odin).

Originally posted by Badabing
That's a warning for trolling and flaming ODG. We've had too many reports since you started posting again. Any more trouble and it will be another temp ban. Does five-fold understanding comprehend? i really don't understand how he gets reported so many times, he's one of the few debaters in the forum

people reporting him need some balls