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This is pure combat, no weapons but everyone here has their suits.

Pre reboot versions.

Pre-Reboot Midnighter solos. He's casually stopped Speedsters, kicked tank shells, and no sold a kick that sent him miles away. He's also hit people hard enough to explode parts of them.

So he's tons faster, more durable, agile, etc...

And he has a combat computer that lets him win before the fight really starts.

Team 2 20/10

Batman doesn't like comedians or clowns. He wins. sneer

Originally posted by KingD19
Pre-Reboot Midnighter solos. He's casually stopped Speedsters, kicked tank shells, and no sold a kick that sent him miles away. He's also hit people hard enough to explode parts of them.

So he's tons faster, more durable, agile, etc...

And he has a combat computer that lets him win before the fight really starts.

Team 2 20/10

Ozy and the Comedian fight only streets and are imho not on Batmans or Midnighters level. Sure they look good in their "own" World but they lack the enemies to compete featwise with Batman.

Batman would tie these two clowns together and fold them into a pretzel like shape in the time it would take to order a chai latte.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman would tie these two clowns together and fold them into a pretzel like shape in the time it would take to order a chai latte.

Ozy defeats Batman before the fight even begins.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Ozy defeats Batman before the fight even begins. gun4sneer

Batman would clean house, while Midnighter is busy beating the shit out of Wolverine someplace else.

Will he let them tie him to a chair and relentlessly attack him until they die from exhaustion?

Midnighter can take Apollo's mighty thrusts and lunges

forgot to say that as duke nukem would say...
"he's got balls of steel".... and other bits to withstand Apollo pressure.

As if Apollo is the pitcher.

team 2 wins

Team one gets their asses kicked.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
As if Apollo is the pitcher. can u imagine the pressure that apollo could generate between those cheeks.... Midnighter durability in the manly bits is far beyond any normal mortal.

I don't know much about Midnighter but Ozy beats Batman soundly.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know much about Midnighter but Ozy beats Batman soundly.
http://i.imgur.com/ETKAc.gif

lol

Batman would beat the shit out of Ozy, tbh.

Yah, but Ozy catches bullets and slows them down and shit.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know much about Midnighter but Ozy beats Batman soundly.

facepalm

Do you make an effort to be wrong every time you post, or is it just something that something that comes to you naturally without effort?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
facepalm

Do you make an effort to be wrong every time you post, or is it just something that something that comes to you naturally without effort?

im smart, not wrong

I am the VulcanData

Midnighter solos and Batman can beat either character on team 1 so its obvious that the Watchmen get stomped

^false Ozy would stomp BM soundly

Originally posted by h1a8
^false Ozy would stomp BM soundly

Jesus.

Batman would beat Ozy, Comedian, Rorschach, Night Owl and Silk Specter at the same time. Easily.

Originally posted by h1a8
^false Ozy would stomp BM soundly Nope you are deluded Midnighter has superhuman feats well beyond Ozy. Midnighter can hadicap himself and still beat the bricks out of Ozy. Preboot Batman also has feats of fighting greater threats than somebody like Ozy. This thread is spite against the watchmen

Can somebody sensible explain why people still think the Watchmen are some sort of uber badasses?

Originally posted by h1a8
^false Ozy would stomp BM soundly

Are you high?

Ozy would be hard pressed to beat mid tiers like Nightwing and Bucky, let alone Batman or Captain America.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ozy would be hard pressed to beat mid tiers like Nightwing and Bucky, let alone Batman or Captain America.

And Midnighter? My god who would be so mean as to put them up against him?

H1a8

Team 2 easily, Comedian is the weak point for Team 1.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ozy would be hard pressed to beat mid tiers like Nightwing and Bucky, let alone Batman or Captain America. Ozy would spite decimate Nightwing and Bucky. But he would beat either Cap and Bats soundly.

Pre-boot Batman would own Ozy so bad it wouldn't be funny, Ozy couldn't even touch Cap, Deathstroke, Lady Shiva, Sensi, Nightwing, David Cain, Azrael, Iron Fist etc even on their worst day, and they are Batman peers. Ozy hasn't proven anything that he can challenge Batman and or peers, and Midnighter is advance version of him on steroids, Comedian is not even an issue.

Ozy would get raped end of discussion, he is outclass in all facets including prep.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Pre-boot Batman would own Ozy so bad it wouldn't be funny, Ozy couldn't even touch Cap, Deathstroke, Lady Shiva, Sensi, Nightwing, David Cain, Azrael, Iron Fist etc even on their worst day, and they are Batman peers. Ozy hasn't proven anything that he can challenge Batman and or peers, and Midnighter is advance version of him on steroids, Comedian is not even an issue.

Ozy would get raped end of discussion, he is outclass in all facets including prep. Ozy is fast enough to catch bullets and has superhuman strength (at least 3 tons). He easily touches all those clowns on their best day.

3 tons?

Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy is fast enough to catch bullets and has superhuman strength (at least 3 tons). He easily touches all those clowns on their best day.

Here is this 3ton proof, you are talking out of your a$$!?

Deathstroke is atleast 10ton and Batman has beaten him, Midnighter 5-10 tons range and can hang with class 100 beings.

Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy is fast enough to catch bullets and has superhuman strength (at least 3 tons). He easily touches all those clowns on their best day.

On his best day, he might be able to win 1/10 against Batman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
On his best day, he might be able to win 1/10 against Batman.

And on that day, Batman has just caught and jailed every prisoner that was set loose from Gotham, had his back broken by Bane...and has the Flu.

Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy is fast enough to catch bullets and has superhuman strength (at least 3 tons). He easily touches all those clowns on their best day. Prove he is strong enough to lift 3 tons

Originally posted by KingD19
And on that day, Batman has just caught and jailed every prisoner that was set loose from Gotham, had his back broken by Bane...and has the Flu.

That's a feat on its own, having the flu is no joke!

Ozy wish he could do that, even on his worse day. Ozy will be wishing for too fight Batman, because he sure as gel doesn't want to fight Midnighter, who would just sadistically beat the hell out of him.

Mids might just rape him. And then bring him home to Apollo for "Game Night"

Originally posted by KingD19
Mids might just rape him. And then bring him home to Apollo for "Game Night"

I would commit suicide

Maybe some more stuff will come with the Watchmen spinoffs, but I doubt it, and barring that, Batman could solo everyone in Watchmen short of Manhattan.

So could Nightwing.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Prove he is strong enough to lift 3 tons

He stopped a bullet in less than 1 inch stopping distance.



Since F=ma

Force to stop bullet =mass of bullet x acceleration to stop

acceleration to stop = (Vf^2-Vi^2)/(2d) where d is the stopping distance

Let's say the mass of the bullet is around 0.017kg and it was fired at Vi=300m/s.

Also d= 1 inch=2.54cm or .0254m and Vf=0

So Force to stop = 0.017kg x (300m/s)^2/(2 x 0.0254m)
=28346.5N
=3.19 tons of force

Also he has feats of throwing 250lb man through a highly reinforced glass window.

Now the bullet feat combined with his intelligence PROVES his MA skill.
There is no way he can catch a bullet without being a supreme master of martial arts. He acquired the speed, reflexes, and strength from MA. Plus he has super senses and was aware when and how Rorshach would attack him from behind when he was talking to Nite Owl. He is an excellent counter attacker and utilizes combos well.

Batman couldn't catch a bullet in his dreams.

Originally posted by h1a8
He stopped a bullet in less than 1 inch stopping distance.



Since F=ma

Force to stop bullet =mass of bullet x acceleration to stop

acceleration to stop = (Vf^2-Vi^2)/(2d) where d is the stopping distance

Let's say the mass of the bullet is around 0.017kg and it was fired at Vi=300m/s.

Also d= 1 inch=2.54cm or .0254m and Vf=0

So Force to stop = 0.017kg x (300m/s)^2/(2 x 0.0254m)
=28346.5N
=3.19 tons of force

Also he has feats of throwing 250lb man through a highly reinforced glass window.

Now the bullet feat combined with his intelligence PROVES his MA skill.
There is no way he can catch a bullet without being a supreme master of martial arts. He acquired the speed, reflexes, and strength from MA. Plus he has super senses and was aware when and how Rorshach would attack him from behind when he was talking to Nite Owl. He is an excellent counter attacker and utilizes combos well.

Batman couldn't catch a bullet in his dreams.

Taskmaster has caught a bullet before and he can't even lift 1 ton, try again.

Eww h1s post was pure shit. Oz isnt a supreme martial artist you have no proof of that

Originally posted by Silent Master
Taskmaster has caught a bullet before and he can't even lift 1 ton, try again. Thus we reach a contradiction and so him catching a bullet is PIS. Thanks!

Originally posted by iceman24567
Eww h1s post was pure shit. Oz isnt a supreme martial artist you have no proof of that

In comics we must use the suspension of disbelief. It clearly makes no sense for a mere human to catch a bullet without being a master martial artist. How did they acquire such ability?

How did the Axe gang from Kung Fu Hustle verify that the Beast was indeed a supreme master? Because he caught the bullet.

Originally posted by h1a8
In comics we must use the suspension of disbelief. It clearly makes no sense for a mere human to catch a bullet without being a master martial artist. How did they acquire such ability?

How did the Axe gang from Kung Fu Hustle verify that the Beast was indeed a supreme master? Because he caught the bullet. I didnt know bullet catching was a prerequisite for being a supreme martial artist . He caught it because he was able to cacluate the trajectory its a good feat but it doesnt make him a master martial artist. He would need feats of at least fighting on par with a legitimate master for us to believe hes at that level. The most we can say about him is hes highly skilled.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I didnt know bullet catching was a prerequisite for being a supreme martial artist . He caught it because he was able to cacluate the trajectory its a good feat but it doesnt make him a master martial artist. He would need feats of at least fighting on par with a legitimate master for us to believe hes at that level. The most we can say about him is hes highly skilled.

P=>Q doesn't mean Q=>P
Bullet catching by human => supreme martial artist.
But supreme martial artist doesn't imply bullet catching.

And false, all the millions who watched Kung Fu Hustle KNEW that after the Beast caught that bullet that he indeed was a supreme martial arts master. This is common sense. Using logic you can't explain how a mere human can acquire the timing, the speed, the strength, the durability in which to catch a bullet without being a supreme fighter. It's impossible to explain under the suspension of disbelief.

Originally posted by h1a8
P=>Q doesn't mean Q=>P
Bullet catching by human => supreme martial artist.
But supreme martial artist doesn't imply bullet catching.

And false, all the millions who watched Kung Fu Hustle KNEW that after the Beast caught that bullet that he indeed was a supreme martial arts master. This is common sense. Using logic you can't explain how a mere human can acquire the timing, the speed, the strength, the durability in which to catch a bullet without being a supreme fighter. It's impossible to explain under the suspension of disbelief.
Wrong as usual. Do you know what supreme means? The beast was not supreme if you watched the film you would know this. Funny how you are trying to apply real world logic to comic book characters. Based on Ozys showings he is not a supreme martial arts master hes not even elite he didnt face anybody with top tier skill to prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thus we reach a contradiction and so him catching a bullet is PIS. Thanks!

Just like Ozy catching it, since he doesn't have any 3 ton feats.

Thanks

Midnighter kicked a tank shell out of it's flight path and towards another tank. He must be a super duper martial artist with no equal and a class strength in the double digits...wait. Midnighter isn't really a martial artist.

And they knew the Beast was a master martial artist because of that big evil storm cloud that was solely in existence over the prison, and because his aura was so powerful that Sing saw a river of blood as soon as he got close. It was solidified when he caught the bullet, but they were already scared sh*tless of him.

Spite thread....in more ways than one.

Originally posted by h1a8
He stopped a bullet in less than 1 inch stopping distance.



Since F=ma

Force to stop bullet =mass of bullet x acceleration to stop

acceleration to stop = (Vf^2-Vi^2)/(2d) where d is the stopping distance

Let's say the mass of the bullet is around 0.017kg and it was fired at Vi=300m/s.

Also d= 1 inch=2.54cm or .0254m and Vf=0

So Force to stop = 0.017kg x (300m/s)^2/(2 x 0.0254m)
=28346.5N
=3.19 tons of force

Also he has feats of throwing 250lb man through a highly reinforced glass window.

Now the bullet feat combined with his intelligence PROVES his MA skill.
There is no way he can catch a bullet without being a supreme master of martial arts. He acquired the speed, reflexes, and strength from MA. Plus he has super senses and was aware when and how Rorshach would attack him from behind when he was talking to Nite Owl. He is an excellent counter attacker and utilizes combos well.

Batman couldn't catch a bullet in his dreams.

Where did you get the less than 1 inch stopping distance from?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where did you get the less than 1 inch stopping distance from?

From the comic showing him stop the bullet. Do you want to see the scan and judge for yourself?

Wolverine ftw

Val Armorr!

I've seen it.

Problem is, with the amounts we're talking here, if the distance was, say, 2 inches, it halves your strength estimation.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just like Ozy catching it, since he doesn't have any 3 ton feats.

Thanks

Team 2 wins

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just like Ozy catching it, since he doesn't have any 3 ton feats.

Thanks

He doesn't have any contradicting ones either so it's different. If a character has only 1 strength feat and no contradicting ones then the strength feat counts.

Originally posted by h1a8
He doesn't have any contradicting ones either so it's different. If a character has only 1 strength feat and no contradicting ones then the strength feat counts.

So...you legitimately think Ozy is a three-tonner?

Originally posted by h1a8
He doesn't have any contradicting ones either so it's different. If a character has only 1 strength feat and no contradicting ones then the strength feat counts.

What feats does Ozy have that support your claim of him having 3 ton strength?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats does Ozy have that support your claim of him having 3 ton strength? The bullet feat and throwing a 250lb Comedian through reinforced thick glass

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So...you legitimately think Ozy is a three-tonner?
Yes!
How else could you stop a bullet like that? You seen my calculations haven't you?

Originally posted by h1a8
The bullet feat and throwing a 250lb Comedian through reinforced thick glass

Where is it stated that those feats require cl 3 strength?

But like I said, you assumed he had 3 ton strength based on a distance to stop of 1 inch.

What if it was 2 inches? Then your strength estimation is halved. Which is quite likely.

So you can't say for certain that he has 3 ton level strength, right?

Of course, the fact that he bled and the bullet went into his hand, shows that a lot of the energy was soaked up by his hand.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But like I said, you assumed he had 3 ton strength based on a distance to stop of 1 inch.

What if it was 2 inches? Then your strength estimation is halved. Which is quite likely.

So you can't say for certain that he has 3 ton level strength, right?

Of course, the fact that he bled and the bullet went into his hand, shows that a lot of the energy was soaked up by his hand.

What if it was 3, 6 or even 12 inches?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What if it was 3, 6 or even 12 inches?

Midnighter gets happier and happier.

Let's say Ozy is Class 3.

Batman has still rocked Darkseid with punches, Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy, the list goes on. All of them are far and beyond Class 3. So that doesn't mean jack sh*t.

And Midnighter...just Jesus man, that's mean to put him in this fight.

I never heard anything, from the graphic novel or the film, where Ozymandias has any superhuman physical abilities. Peak human sure, but nothing superhuman or even enhanced about him (the bullet catch was more a combination of skill, brains and physicality over just being faster than a speeding bullet).

It's still a bad ass feat. He even dodged Comedian's shot from behind and took down a bunch of goons by reading what will happen and reacting to it. Not saying he's peak or above, but still impressive. Has Batman done similar?

Originally posted by Golgo13
It's still a bad ass feat. He even dodged Comedian's shot from behind and took down a bunch of goons by reading what will happen and reacting to it. Not saying he's peak or above, but still impressive. Has Batman done similar?

He doesn't have to.

Midnighter has done far more impressive things. And Batman can take the Comedian.

I agree, but does Batman have the skill to read outcomes before they happen or dodging a bullet from behind?

Batman fights people who are that fast all the time.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I agree, but does Batman have the skill to read outcomes before they happen or dodging a bullet from behind?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper2.jpg
Sniper bullet > handguns.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Gunfire/batconfidential15-batwrathgun2.jpg
Chaingun > handguns

Punching bullets out of the air:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/004.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbulletblock.jpg

Batman freaks Speedy out for life:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow2.jpg

Oh, and a mind-controlled Batman still owns a (semi) bloodlusted Kid Flash. Who's attacking him from behind.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batvstitans2.jpg

Batman's speed is pretty underrated.

I always liked this one:

http://i.imgur.com/7erng.jpg

Am sure h1a8 will still downgrade it because he didn't use his own body to slow the bullets down, and instead blocked them with his bulletproof gloves.

Incidentally, he assumed Ozy's bullet was 300m/s when he caught it.

The sniper bullet Batman reacted to was....1200m/s. And he CLEARLY moved out of the way AFTER it was fired, unless new advancements in gun tech now means they announce their firing with a mini sonic boom....

Originally posted by h1a8


Batman couldn't catch a bullet in his dreams.

O rly?

Yes Batman has loads of feats that would blow Ozy out of the water. On average Batman would choke Ozy to death haven't seen anything to prove otherwise

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yes Batman has loads of feats that would blow Ozy out of the water. On average Batman would choke Ozy to death, then donate all of his money to orphans. Haven't seen anything to prove otherwise

I fixed it for you.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am sure h1a8 will still downgrade it because he didn't use his own body to slow the bullets down, and instead blocked them with his bulletproof gloves.

Incidentally, he assumed Ozy's bullet was 300m/s when he caught it.

The sniper bullet Batman reacted to was....1200m/s. And he CLEARLY moved out of the way AFTER it was fired, unless new advancements in gun tech now means they announce their firing with a mini sonic boom....



O rly? Yes it's downgraded for three reasons:
1. Distance was larger (more than 4x for the sniper)
2. Bulletproof gloves
3. Catching is harder (skill wise) than evading or blocking

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, and a mind-controlled Batman still owns a (semi) bloodlusted Kid Flash. Who's attacking him from behind.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batvstitans2.jpg Good feat, but still not good as catching a bullet since we don't know how fast kid flash was going. Many times characters don't use their top speed when fighting. Also since clearly Batman would be a statue to any flash we either must except PIS or assume kid flash was holding back a lot. Choose!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper2.jpg
Sniper bullet > handguns.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Gunfire/batconfidential15-batwrathgun2.jpg
Chaingun > handguns

Punching bullets out of the air:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/004.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbulletblock.jpg I used 300m/s yet Ozy was less than 4 times the distance away than Batman. Thus Ozy showed faster reaction times and speeds. Also we don't see how Batman dodged the chain fire. He could have simply aim dodged. Batman punching bullets from air is impressive but on as much as catching one without using bullet proof gloves. Catching something is much harder than blocking something. Plus Ozy was closer to his gunman than Batman was.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But like I said, you assumed he had 3 ton strength based on a distance to stop of 1 inch.

What if it was 2 inches? Then your strength estimation is halved. Which is quite likely.

So you can't say for certain that he has 3 ton level strength, right?

Of course, the fact that he bled and the bullet went into his hand, shows that a lot of the energy was soaked up by his hand.
The actually scan shows less than 1mm. I just used 1 inch as an underestimate.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where is it stated that those feats require cl 3 strength? It's stated by me earlier and can be proven through physics.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's stated by me earlier and can be proven through physics.

No, it can't...as you have no way of proving the stopping distance.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, it can't...as you have no way of proving the stopping distance. Of course I do. It shows in the scan that it's between 0 and 1 inch. As you clearly see his hand stopped the bullet on impact (almost a dead stop). The fact that you don't see his hand go back any amount after impact proves it didn't (since these events Are fictional and never happened).

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course I do. It shows in the scan that it's between 0 and 1 inch. As you clearly see his hand stopped the bullet on impact (almost a dead stop). The fact that you don't see his hand go back any amount after impact proves it didn't (since these events Are fictional and never happened).

Prove that his hand didn't move when he stopped the bullet.

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course I do. It shows in the scan that it's between 0 and 1 inch. As you clearly see his hand stopped the bullet on impact (almost a dead stop). The fact that you don't see his hand go back any amount after impact proves it didn't (since these events Are fictional and never happened).

Dude... we have no f@cking idea what happened in between the panel where he caught the bullet and the panel where he is laid on the ground with both hands bleeding. How can you sit there and say such nonsense? You have no leg to stand on when you assert that his hands didn't recoil after the bullet's impact.

Their is nothing too talk about really, Midnighter will decapitate Ozymandias with one hit,or Batman will bait Ozy into a trap that will give a advantage. You could add Nite Owl and Rorshach, they will still get their butt kick to high heaven, team2 wins 10/10

I want to know why you're trying to use the distance difference between a sniper round and a pistol round. A sniper round can go upwards of a mile, while a pistol only goes a few hundred feet to maybe a thousand or a little more. Sniper rounds also travel much faster than pistol rounds, it's like the difference between a jet and a car. Whose to say that sniper round didn't cover more distance just as fast or faster than the pistol? Because I guarantee it's a lot easier to dodge/catch a pistol round than it is a sniper shot.

Midnighter would solo.

Those Batman bullet feats aren't anything but aim blocking/dodging and the sniper one has been butchered beyond belief. The scan literally says Batman is too late in preventing the sniper from shooting...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude... we have no f@cking idea what happened in between the panel where he caught the bullet and the panel where he is laid on the ground with both hands bleeding. How can you sit there and say such nonsense? You have no leg to stand on when you assert that his hands didn't recoil after the bullet's impact.

Of course we do, he caught the bullet and stopped it dead as shown in the scan. It only takes less than .01 of a second for this to happen. Afterwards is irrelevant since the momentum of the bullet was completely stopped in the first scan.


Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that his hand didn't move when he stopped the bullet.

The proof is in the scan. The bullet was shown to stop and not progress any further the moment it came in contact with his hand.

Originally posted by KingD19
I want to know why you're trying to use the distance difference between a sniper round and a pistol round. A sniper round can go upwards of a mile, while a pistol only goes a few hundred feet to maybe a thousand or a little more. Sniper rounds also travel much faster than pistol rounds, it's like the difference between a jet and a car. Whose to say that sniper round didn't cover more distance just as fast or faster than the pistol? Because I guarantee it's a lot easier to dodge/catch a pistol round than it is a sniper shot.

True but timing also depends on distance. If the sniper bullet is 4x the speed and 4x the distance as the pistol bullet then it is equivalent to dodging the pistol period.
Catching is far harder to do than dodging.

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course we do, he caught the bullet and stopped it dead as shown in the scan. It only takes less than .01 of a second for this to happen. Afterwards is irrelevant since the momentum of the bullet was completely stopped in the first scan.




The proof is in the scan. The bullet was shown to stop and not progress any further the moment it came in contact with his hand.

Based on what exactly? You are looking at a snap shot, a single moment in time. Nothing about that adds any credence to your assertion that he stopped the bullet dead and robbed it off all momentum without any recoil in his arms. In actuality the fact that he got laid out on his ass and didn't ride the momentum of his jump and crash into Silk Specter suggest otherwise.

Jeez. Let's do this.


Originally posted by h1a8
Yes it's downgraded for three reasons:
1. Distance was larger (more than 4x for the sniper)
2. Bulletproof gloves
3. Catching is harder (skill wise) than evading or blocking

All true, except:
1. Was the handgun bullet travelling at its max velocity? You cannot say that for certain. It could have been travelling at less than that.
2. So Ozy used his whole body PLUS his fleshy hand to stop the bullet.
3. Perhaps.


But....we don't know how fast your bullet was going. Since clearly any human is a statue to bullets, we must either accept PIS or assume the bullet was slow. Choose!


So the bullet may not have accelerated to its max speed, whereas the sniper bullet could easily have. Cool.



Ozy used his entire body to slow the bullet down:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/io9/2011/09/davegibbons.jpg

Your vaunted calculations ignored the fact a lot of the kinetic energy was soaked up by Ozy's body, and the fact he used his fleshy hand to stop it. Also, where is this 1 inch that you can prove?


Yeah but shit physics, and rubbish assumptions.

And ODG, the point of my scan still stands. I butchered nothing.

It shows Batman dodging a bullet AFTER it was fired. He couldn't move Freeze out of the way, but he still dodged it. Then threw Batarangs at the sniper in the same movement.

Originally posted by h1a8
The proof is in the scan. The bullet was shown to stop and not progress any further the moment it came in contact with his hand.

The scan doesn't show Ozy's hand both immediately before and after he catches the bullet.

IOW, you're making things up.

The fact that his hand was in front of him, and then was by his side, is a distance waayy longer than one inch. You cannot prove that he moved it afterwards, or during the catching feat, can you?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And ODG, the point of my scan still stands. I butchered nothing.

It shows Batman dodging a bullet AFTER it was fired. He couldn't move Freeze out of the way, but he still dodged it. Then threw Batarangs at the sniper in the same movement. He was too late to do anything about it. Meaning, he didn't so much as dodge it but just failed to prevent Mr. Freeze from getting his helmet shot with those batarangs that were too late to prevent the sniper from shooting.

It's one thing to argue that Batman wasn't really too late to do anything about it, it's another thing to argue that the narration isn't literally spelling that out for us in plain black and white.

Did he got shot, y/n?

Was his head in the path of the bullet before he moved, y/n?

Was his head in the path of the bullet after he moved, y/n?

Did he only know about it AFTER he heard the 'air punch', y/n?

Originally posted by h1a8
In comics we must use the suspension of disbelief.


I use it everytime I read one of your posts.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Based on what exactly? You are looking at a snap shot, a single moment in time. Nothing about that adds any credence to your assertion that he stopped the bullet dead and robbed it off all momentum without any recoil in his arms. In actuality the fact that he got laid out on his ass and didn't ride the momentum of his jump and crash into Silk Specter suggest otherwise.

He stopped it dead since the scan appears that way and there is no evidence to support otherwise. If something appears one way and yet there is no evidence to support the contrary then it is logical to accept what appears. This is fiction and thus this even never happened. There is no such notion as he could have done X or Y when we wasn't looking. We must take what's shown and confer as is.

Also, the fact that the bullet stopped his forward jump doesn't destroy the fact that he stopped it almost instantly with his hands.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did he got shot, y/n?

Was his head in the path of the bullet before he moved, y/n?

Was his head in the path of the bullet after he moved, y/n?

Did he only know about it AFTER he heard the 'air punch', y/n? Was the sniper even aiming at him in the first place?

If the sniper was aiming at him, is he such a perfect marksman that he can't ever possibly miss?

If the sniper was aiming at him, is it impossible for Batman to simply move out of the way of his aim rather than the bullet?

Does Batman hearing a sound -- even though the object that made the sound was traveling far faster than sound would even travel -- mean a lick of difference when trying to overanalyze this non-feat into oblivion?

Street levelers performing true bullet-timing is already skeptical enough on its own even when it is positively, indisputably occurring on-panel. So when the context of the feat permits for several far more rational explanations that don't require bullet-timing speed, you should take that route. And frankly, this is all rather needless when we can simply read the narration. It's literally spoonfed to you that Batman was quite literally too late to do anything about the bullet. There is no sensible reason to ignore that.

You're also spoon fed that he moved out of the way after he heard it. Chalk it up to PIS, chalk it up to an outlier 1 time feat that he never did it again....but it still happened.

He didn't move out of the way, he wasn't even the target, Freeze was...

That scan looks like he turned before she even fired the gun.

Originally posted by h1a8
He stopped it dead since the scan appears that way and there is no evidence to support otherwise. If something appears one way and yet there is no evidence to support the contrary then it is logical to accept what appears. This is fiction and thus this even never happened. There is no such notion as he could have done X or Y when we wasn't looking. We must take what's shown and confer as is.

Also, the fact that the bullet stopped his forward jump doesn't destroy the fact that he stopped it almost instantly with his hands.

The panel shows one isolated instance in time, you are using that snap shot to draw conclusions of what happened afterwards... with absolutely no evidence to back your claim. What we are shown is the bullet hitting his hands... and then him laid on on the floor... that's it. What about that supports your theory? Nothing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're also spoon fed that he moved out of the way after he heard it. Chalk it up to PIS, chalk it up to an outlier 1 time feat that he never did it again....but it still happened. How can you even hear a bullet being fired and move out of its way when that sound would have traveled slower than the bullet would? Does Batman now have faster-than-sound hearing? This isn't PIS, it's just you trying to create something out of nothing.

Originally posted by tkitna
I use it everytime I read one of your posts.

Not everytime. Sometimes you did agree with me soundly.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The panel shows one isolated instance in time, you are using that snap shot to draw conclusions of what happened afterwards... with absolutely no evidence to back your claim. What we are shown is the bullet hitting his hands... and then him laid on on the floor... that's it. What about that supports your theory? Nothing.

With his hands, which had previously been in front of him, now at his side.

Originally posted by KingD19
That scan looks like he turned before she even fired the gun.

The bullet has already hit Freeze by the time Batman threw the Batarangs...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The bullet has already hit Freeze by the time Batman threw the Batarangs...

I meant the Ozy example. The girl called him out, he turned around and faced her, then she shot.

Lol fine, Ok, what is everyone's take on it then?

My take is that he only reacted after he heard the bullet being fired, and moved to react to it. The fact that Freeze was the target, is a bit moot, as the path the bullet took would have gone through his head as well.

Laugh at it, mock it all you like, but I am interested in hearing what others make of it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The panel shows one isolated instance in time, you are using that snap shot to draw conclusions of what happened afterwards... with absolutely no evidence to back your claim. What we are shown is the bullet hitting his hands... and then him laid on on the floor... that's it. What about that supports your theory? Nothing. No the bullet is completely stopped in his hands as it appears. The panel displays not a single moment in time but a small instant (we see the bullet motion). We must go by what appears if nothing else is offered.

Originally posted by h1a8
No the bullet is completely stopped in his hands as it appears. We must go by what appears if nothing else is offered.

Yes, but you don't know for certain Ozy didn't move his hands out to the side a further distance to slow the bullet down do you?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol fine, Ok, what is everyone's take on it then?

My take is that he only reacted after he heard the bullet being fired, and moved to react to it. The fact that Freeze was the target, is a bit moot, as the path the bullet took would have gone through his head as well.

Laugh at it, mock it all you like, but I am interested in hearing what others make of it.

Well with Sniper rifles, the bullet is usually so fast, you get hit before you hear the shot. Especially at farther distances. But I do believe he was in the way of the bullet at first, and moved from where he was. Maybe the writer didn't take into account that real life snippet, but then again, no human should have hands strong enough to stop a 38.-44. Revolver bullet.

Originally posted by h1a8
No the bullet is completely stopped in his hands as it appears. The panel displays not a single moment in time but a small instant (we see the bullet motion). We must go by what appears if nothing else is offered.

That's only how it appears to you... because apparently you have no understanding on how the comic medium works and what panels are.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol fine, Ok, what is everyone's take on it then?

My take is that he only reacted after he heard the bullet being fired, and moved to react to it. The fact that Freeze was the target, is a bit moot, as the path the bullet took would have gone through his head as well.

Laugh at it, mock it all you like, but I am interested in hearing what others make of it. At best, it's aim-dodging if Batman was even the target in the first place.

At worst, it's the sniper hitting his intended target (Mr. Freeze) and Batman failing to do sh1t about it because it was quite literally too fast for him to do anything about it as the narration literally spells out for you. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The bullet has already hit Freeze by the time Batman threw the Batarangs... It baffles me that this even needs to be pointed out. It's like, "No sh1t, Captain Obvious."

Aim dodging...but Batman didn't know about it until after the gun was fired, no?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but you don't know for certain Ozy didn't move his hands out to the side a further distance to slow the bullet down do you? I do know because neither it nor any evidence of it wasn't shown and thus it doesn't exist. There is evidence of him stopping the bullet with his hands almost cold though because it appears that way from the scan.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Aim dodging...but Batman didn't know about it until after the gun was fired, no? Which should inform you about how obvious it is that the sniper was aiming at Mr. Freeze the entire time and Batman couldn't do sh1t about it but take out the sniper after the fact... because "the bullet too fast."

There is evidence of it shown, though.

When the bullet hits him, his hands are in front of him (as evidence d by the * at the end of his hiiya).

In the next panel, his hands are to his sides.

Therefore, after the bullet hit his hands, he moved them to the sides (and also spun a bit midair) to slow the bullet down.

@ODG: OK.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Aim dodging...but Batman didn't know about it until after the gun was fired, no?

He said at best it's aim dodging, which was being generous, because it's not aim dodging.

A sniper shot at Mister Freeze. The bullet hit Mister Freeze. Batman turned and knocked the shooter of the roof with some Batarangs with his internal narration directly stating that the shooter was too good, and that the bullet was too fast.

Not sure how any of that suggest that he dodged a sniper round after it was fired.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He said at best it's aim dodging, which was being generous, because it's not aim dodging.

A sniper shot at Mister Freeze. The bullet hit Mister Freeze. Batman turned and knocked the shooter of the roof with some Batarangs with his internal narration directly stating that the shooter was too good, and that the bullet was too fast.

Not sure how any of that suggest that he dodged a sniper round after it was fired.

OK.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There is evidence of it shown, though.

When the bullet hits him, his hands are in front of him (as evidence d by the * at the end of his hiiya).

In the next panel, his hands are to his sides.

Therefore, after the bullet hit his hands, he moved them to the sides (and also spun a bit midair) to slow the bullet down.

No, the bullet was already stopped relative to his hands in the panel. How he moves his hands afterward is irrelevant.

Nope, it wasn't shown that he stopped it by that one panel, or in the next.

In fact, the fact that his body spins a bit after the impact shows he can't have stopped it in that one panel you are referring to.

Originally posted by h1a8
No, the bullet was already stopped relative to his hands in the panel. How he moves his hands afterward is irrelevant.

All that panel shows is that the bullet connected with his closed hands. Anything else is an assumption you have drawn with no evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
All that panel shows is that the bullet connected with his closed hands. Anything else is an assumption you have drawn with no evidence to back it up.

We see the motion of the bullet and yet no motion of the hand going back.

Originally posted by h1a8
We see the motion of the bullet and yet no motion of the hand going back.

We do see his body twisted backwards, though.

Originally posted by h1a8
We see the motion of the bullet and yet no motion of the hand going back.

You don't see the motion of the bullet, you see the muzzle flash of the gun. The movement of his hands would happen in between the panels represented on page.

Its a static representation of a whole series of images, h1. In the panel shown, Ozy catches the bullet. No one disputes that.

In the next, he is lying twisted away, with his arms by his side.

None of us are disputing he has the ability to catch the bullet, physical or skillwise.

What we are disputing is your arbitrary twisting of number application, and placing random numbers onto the sequence to bolster your case. You're trying to blind us with numbers, but the assumptions on which your calculations are based are very very shaky.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You don't see the motion of the bullet, you see the muzzle flash of the gun. The movement of his hands would happen in between the panels represented on page. Flashes don't operate as bullet trajectories in straight lines. Thus it was the bullet's motion shown.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its a static representation of a whole series of images, h1. In the panel shown, Ozy catches the bullet. No one disputes that.

In the next, he is lying twisted away, with his arms by his side.

None of us are disputing he has the ability to catch the bullet, physical or skillwise.

What we are disputing is your arbitrary twisting of number application, and placing random numbers onto the sequence to bolster your case. You're trying to blind us with numbers, but the assumptions on which your calculations are based are very very shaky. False, it is clear from the scan that he stopped the bullet less than 1inch stopping distance. Nothing is made up.

A bullet would simply pass through CA's or Batman's hand if they tried to catch it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flashes don't operate as bullet trajectories in straight lines. Thus it was the bullet's motion shown.

Are you still trying to argue that he caught the bullet from behind as well?

Originally posted by h1a8
False, it is clear from the scan that he stopped the bullet less than 1inch stopping distance. Nothing is made up.

A bullet would simply pass through CA's or Batman's hand if they tried to catch it.

So his body being hit in midair, and its subsequent twisting from the impact to slow the bullet down, plus the fact that a lot of energy was absorbed by his flesh as the bullet penetrated his palm...you're not taking that into account?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So his body being hit in midair, and its subsequent twisting from the impact to slow the bullet down, plus the fact that a lot of energy was absorbed by his flesh as the bullet penetrated his palm...you're not taking that into account?

Of course not. That takes away from the feat.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So his body being hit in midair, and its subsequent twisting from the impact to slow the bullet down, plus the fact that a lot of energy was absorbed by his flesh as the bullet penetrated his palm...you're not taking that into account?

Doesn't matter as the bullet is stopped within 1 inch stopping distance. Who cares if he twisted after the bullet is stopped or that the bullet penetrated his hand a couple of mm? It takes more than 3tons of force to stop the bullet they way Ozy did.

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as the bullet is stopped within 1 inch stopping distance. Who cares if he twisted after the bullet is stopped or that the bullet penetrated his hand a couple of mm? It takes more than 3tons of force to stop the bullet they way Ozy did.

You haven't proven that the bullet stopped within 1 inch.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flashes don't operate as bullet trajectories in straight lines. Thus it was the bullet's motion shown.


What? It's muzzle flash. lol

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as the bullet is stopped within 1 inch stopping distance. Who cares if he twisted after the bullet is stopped or that the bullet penetrated his hand a couple of mm? It takes more than 3tons of force to stop the bullet they way Ozy did.

It...kinda does matter. Let me break it down

As the hand that Ozy used is attached to his body...it should be regarded as one system.

So even if his hand only travelled 1 inch to stop it (which is debateable, but we'll leave that for the moment)...the fact that his body moved as well, shows that the distance the body travelled was also due to absorbing the bullet's energy and stopping it.

Therefore, you cannot just take the hand's travelling distance in isolation. You also have to take into account the body's travelling distance, as it is attached to Ozy's body. In fact, it could be said he used his whole body to stop the bullet, which is what you need to take into account in your equations. It just so happened the point of impact was the hand.

Batman punching bullets out of the air shows more strength, as the bulletproof gloves, and lack of mid air acrobatics, shows that he tanked the bullets head on without 'rolling with the punches', as it were.

So whatever strength level you come up with using your equations, it only means that Batman is stronger, as his ligaments and arms took the entire strain of the bullet.

The only way he could be seen as stopping the bullet with just his hand, was if he put his hand out, caught the bullet, and didn't move.

Originally posted by KingD19
The only way he could be seen as stopping the bullet with just his hand, was if he put his hand out, caught the bullet, and didn't move.

Exactly.

Let's use this example.

Manny Pacquioa throws a punch at my head. Its a hook, coming for the side of my head. Its already at max speed, because Manny's punches are that fast.

Ozy: as the punch hits the side of my jaw, I roll my head around, and twist acrobatically in the air.

Batman: I meet his punch by ramming my chin into his fist. Without shifting my feet or snapping my head back.

Who is stronger?

Bats, because he didn't roll with the punch or move his own body in conjunction to disperse impact force.

Originally posted by KingD19
Bats, because he didn't roll with the punch or move his own body in conjunction to disperse impact force.

Exactly. Skill is with Ozy, no doubt. Rolling with the punches is a very good addition that Western boxers brought to Muay Thai. There's a reason Thai Muay Thai practitioners have a short shelf life to their Western counterparts - tanking punches to the head is stupid.

But strength? If you're going to try and use equations and science to comic books, then you might as well be consistent.

MT practitioners have a short fight life because they fight young and often, much more so than American boxers, at least.

They barely focus on punches, anyway, because kicks score a lot more.

Yah, maybe I should have used a different MA in my example hehe.

Point I was trying to put across, is that in other MAs (not all), when a punch comes for you, you redirect it, you roll with the punch, you use your enemy's force against you etc etc.

In MT, you block with your shin. Or your forearm, or your head. There's very little redirection going on, imo. You take the full force with some part of your anatomy.