Cytorrak & Juggernaut (Classic) vs Odin & King Thor vs Thanos & Darkseid

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Starscream M
Which team wins?

Fight in Cytorrak's domain.

Most powerful version of Darkseid (barring powerups)

Harbinger
Juggy is a non-factor given that he can be BFRed or dealt with via time stop. The fight comes down to how powerful you view Cytorrak and Darkseid, IMO. Personally, I'd give it to the team here.

JakeTheBank
Depends on the realm where the battle takes place and which depiction of Darkseid.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Harbinger
Juggy is a non-factor given that he can be BFRed or dealt with via time stop. The fight comes down to how powerful you view Cytorrak and Darkseid, IMO. Personally, I'd give it to the team here. Cytorrak can prevent juggy from being BFRed

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Depends on the realm where the battle takes place and which depiction of Darkseid. fight in cytorrak's realm

most powerful depiction of normal darkseid (barring powerups)

carver9
Cytorrak turns Juggernaut into Trion for the stomp.

carver9
Originally posted by Starscream M
fight in cytorrak's realm

most powerful depiction of normal darkseid (barring powerups)

Pre Crisis Darkseid?

juggernaut74
Should have made it demon Colossus rather than classic Cain.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
fight in cytorrak's realm

most powerful depiction of normal darkseid (barring powerups)

So basically highest end "avatar" Darkseid?

Eh, probably Cyttorak and Juggernaut, then.

Harbinger
It'd have to be, if it's the most powerful "standard" DS.

Team wins. Thor and Thanos are unnecessary here.

EDIT: Responding to carver.

Starscream M
Edited OP.

KingD19
Cytorrak in his realm laughed at 2/5 of the Phoenix Force and banished them without a second glance. And Classic Juggernaut in Cytorrak's realm will more than likely be amped, and have more access to all the magic he used back in the day. This is their fight to lose.

carver9
If its Pre Crisis Darkseid, Thanos and Darkseid wins. I would put that version of Darkseid above anyone here.

KingD19
Wasn't Pre-Crisis DC anybody just ridiculous in terms of power? Like sneezing planets out of existence and farting entire galaxies into paradise?

carver9
Originally posted by KingD19
Wasn't Pre-Crisis DC anybody just ridiculous in terms of power? Like sneezing planets out of existence and farting entire galaxies into paradise?

Pretty much but Darkseid during those times was above even that.

KingD19
That doesn't even compute.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin and King Thor > Cytorrak and Juggernaut > Thanos and (Regular) Darkseid

Cytorrak most likely gets a boost from being in his own realm as most demons do but not enough to fight and beat two Odin Force wielders.

JakeTheBank
Didn't see Bruce upped Thor to King Thor levels in his edit.

Eye beams of death ftw.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin and King Thor > Cytorrak and Juggernaut > Thanos and (Regular) Darkseid

Cytorrak most likely gets a boost from being in his own realm as most demons do but not enough to beat two Odin Force wielders. what about cytorrak turning juggernaut trion? trion himself is more than a match for odin

KingD19
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin and King Thor > Cytorrak and Juggernaut > Thanos and (Regular) Darkseid

Cytorrak most likely gets a boost from being in his own realm as most demons do but not enough to fight and beat two Odin Force wielders.

Cytorrak is Skyfather level outside of his dimension. In it it's safe to assume he's even stronger. And Trion Juggernaut is a huge threat, and in Cytorrak's realm he's probably even stronger than normal.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
what about cytorrak turning juggernaut trion? trion himself is more than a match for odin

1. How would Cytorrak turn Juggernaut into Trion? If you're referring to the story where Juggernaut was being empowered with outside energies, I'm pretty sure that Cytorrak had nothing to do with that and it was instead the three entities from a parallel Universe. IIRC Storm ended up beating them with a lightning bolt or some shit, been a while.

2. Haha, no he's not. He broke a few localized dimensional boundaries and knocked aside Wolverine plus some X-men. You need a lot more feats than that to justify him taking on Odin much less being too much for the All-Father. Odin can break dimensional barriers with his farts.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak is Skyfather level outside of his dimension. In it it's safe to assume he's even stronger. And Trion Juggernaut is a huge threat, and in Cytorrak's realm he's probably even stronger than normal.

Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.

KingD19
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.

Cytorrak didn't give a damn about the Serpent taking over Cain. He didn't even care about Serpent. He didn't even really notice to tell the truth. It wasn't until Magik convinced him that Cain was destroying for Serpent and not for him(which was an insult as the entire reason he empowered him was to cause chaos and destruction in his name), that he granted Colossus the power.

Jynocidus
team 1

Sabro
Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak didn't give a damn about the Serpent taking over Cain. He didn't even care about Serpent. He didn't even really notice to tell the truth. It wasn't until Magik convinced him that Cain was destroying for Serpent and not for him(which was an insult as the entire reason he empowered him was to cause chaos and destruction in his name), that he granted Colossus the power.
This. And The Vishantin are actually afraid of Cyttorak, I don't see them being even slightly concerned about Odin.

Newjak
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor. You're referring to the Mephisto story right?

Even if you believe what he says, Cyttorak has always been banished and unable to leave his realm. He was mad the Serpent had tainted his Avatar and wanted something done about it. He literally couldn't do anything himself because he can not leave his realm.

He also was shown with Magik to not even care about what the Serpent was doing to Earth until he learned about Cain being double possessed and using someone else's power. FYI it was said by Satanna that at anytime if Cain wanted he could have called upon the power of Cyttorak to break free from the Serpent's hold on him.

DickBlazer
Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak in his realm laughed at 2/5 of the Phoenix Force and banished them without a second glance. And Classic Juggernaut in Cytorrak's realm will more than likely be amped, and have more access to all the magic he used back in the day. This is their fight to lose.

This

Mshinu
Cyttorak in his home beats Team Inbred Viking and Team Poo Face easily.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak didn't give a damn about the Serpent taking over Cain. He didn't even care about Serpent. He didn't even really notice to tell the truth. It wasn't until Magik convinced him that Cain was destroying for Serpent and not for him(which was an insult as the entire reason he empowered him was to cause chaos and destruction in his name), that he granted Colossus the power.

Like you said, Cytorrak does care, very much so. When he realized that Cain was spreading the word of the Serpent, he immediately recalled his power. That being said, as long as Cain causes destruction, for the most part he is content, but I'm not sure how all of this is relevant to the point I was making.

Mephisto, Cytorrak and all the other high end hell lords were obviously very wary of the Serpent. Heck, Mephisto even said taking on the Serpent one on one would be stupid and suicidal.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Newjak
You're referring to the Mephisto story right?

Even if you believe what he says, Cyttorak has always been banished and unable to leave his realm. He was mad the Serpent had tainted his Avatar and wanted something done about it. He literally couldn't do anything himself because he can not leave his realm.

He also was shown with Magik to not even care about what the Serpent was doing to Earth until he learned about Cain being double possessed and using someone else's power. FYI it was said by Satanna that at anytime if Cain wanted he could have called upon the power of Cyttorak to break free from the Serpent's hold on him.

Yes I am.

Why wouldn't I believe what was said? True, but that's beside the message of that story, which is that if a demon lord took on the Serpent, they'd be royally f*cked. And I'm willing to bet good money Cytorrak like Mephisto was in that boat. I'll give Cytorrak points for talking shit about them taking on the Serpent and beating his ass but as Mephisto pointed out in a mocking thought bubble, he's good at talking shit, facing the real deal is different.

I do not understand how Cytorrak being a lazy f*ck who is content with Cain wrecking shit most of the time is relevant to this debate. I only brought up the Serpent because it gives us a base of comparison between Asgardian Skyfathers and Cytorrak. And that comparison heavily favors the Asgardians, although it's not conclusive, debate ending evidence. But if that's the only thing that counted for Cytorrak fans, he'd be massacred by Odin.

Do you have a scan of that? Because I'm pretty sure it was said that if Cain had not embraced the Serpent, he could have used the power of Cytorrak that was already in him to help resist the Serpent, not easily break the control. Those two have very different meanings. Course it's been a while, hence the scan.

Anyways, I'm probably finished here as Team 2 clearly wins here. Anyone who thinks Cytorrak, in or out of his realm can beat King Thor and Odin needs to back that information up with hard evidence.

Newjak
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes I am.

Why wouldn't I believe what was said? True, but that's beside the message of that story, which is that if a demon lord took on the Serpent, they'd be royally f*cked. And I'm willing to bet good money Cytorrak like Mephisto was in that boat. I'll give Cytorrak points for talking shit about them taking on the Serpent and beating his ass but as Mephisto pointed out in a mocking thought bubble, he's good at talking shit, facing the real deal is different.

I do not understand how Cytorrak being a lazy f*ck who is content with Cain wrecking shit most of the time is relevant to this debate. I only brought up the Serpent because it gives us a base of comparison between Asgardian Skyfathers and Cytorrak. And that comparison heavily favors the Asgardians, although it's not conclusive, debate ending evidence. But if that's the only thing that counted for Cytorrak fans, he'd be massacred by Odin.

Do you have a scan of that? Because I'm pretty sure it was said that if Cain had not embraced the Serpent, he could have used the power of Cytorrak that was already in him to help resist the Serpent, not easily break the control. Those two have very different meanings. Course it's been a while, hence the scan.

Anyways, I'm probably finished here as Team 2 clearly wins here. Anyone who thinks Cytorrak, in or out of his realm can beat King Thor and Odin needs to back that information up with hard evidence. And you're relying on one scan to prove a point despite everything else regarding the history of Cyttorak. The big being he can not leave his realm so he couldn't take on the Serpent even if he wanted to.

I'll try and find the scan from Satanna.

Rage.Of.Olympus
What are you talking about? I never denied that Cytorrak was trapped in his realm. I'm simply pointing out that Gillen (The same writer who had him own Phoenix Colossus by the way so it's not as if he doesn't respect Cytorrak), made it pretty obvious that if the two were to fight, Cytorrak would most likely get his butt spanked. So would Mephisto and any other high hell lord, at least that's my interpretation of the issue.

I'd also like to point out that since Cytorrak managed to attend the meeting, he isn't as trapped as you might think and the fact that staging an attack on the Serpent was proposed by Cytorrak himself, if need be he/they could obviously bypass the spell somehow.

guy222
t2

KingD19
Cytorrak is trapped in his realm, but I believe he can project Avatars of his essence/will outside of it.

Newjak
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What are you talking about? I never denied that Cytorrak was trapped in his realm. I'm simply pointing out that Gillen (The same writer who had him own Phoenix Colossus by the way so it's not as if he doesn't respect Cytorrak), made it pretty obvious that if the two were to fight, Cytorrak would most likely get his butt spanked. So would Mephisto and any other high hell lord, at least that's my interpretation of the issue.

I'd also like to point out that since Cytorrak managed to attend the meeting, he isn't as trapped as you might think and the fact that staging an attack on the Serpent was proposed by Cytorrak himself, if need be he/they could obviously bypass the spell somehow.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak is trapped in his realm, but I believe he can project Avatars of his essence/will outside of it.

guy222
never been impressed by cytorrak

Colossus-Big C
The serpent was getting wanked, some of the demons that showed up to mephistos meeting could have givin him run for his money.

60% of those guys are trapped in there dimensions with no way to come to earth

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak is trapped in his realm, but I believe he can project Avatars of his essence/will outside of it.

Scan of this? He probably could mind you, but I'd like some confirmation. Mostly because it felt like it was intended to be the real deal.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.
Well , Cyttorak was supposed to be a member of the Octessence , beings from whom Dr Strange invokes power , rather than just a mere Demon Lord .

I really hate what that Journey Into Mystery story did to him and some other Elder God characters .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Newjak

Not really . That's a myth that needs to die , since Cyttorak has battled his peers among the Octessence , that too outside of his realm . And the story in which this took place , was written decades ago , and is among Cyttorak's original initial personal appearances in comics .

KingD19
"The "Unbreakable" Crimson Bands of Cytorrak" is one of the most used high level spells around. Doom used them, Strange uses them all the time, etc..

carver9
Originally posted by KingD19
"The "Unbreakable" Crimson Bands of Cytorrak" is one of the most used high level spells around. Doom used them, Strange uses them all the time, etc..

But the spell has been broken on numerous of occasions.

KingD19
By people like Hulk. And that's why I put unbreakable in quotations, because they aren't truly unbreakable, but it's not everyone who can do it.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by guy222
never been impressed by cytorrak

thumb up

Starscream M
creating a being with higher durability than galactus is not impressive?!

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Well , Cyttorak was supposed to be a member of the Octessence , beings from whom Dr Strange invokes power , rather than just a mere Demon Lord .

I really hate what that Journey Into Mystery story did to him and some other Elder God characters .

He is a Demon Lord though, closer to someone like Surtur or Mephisto (On a good day) than Nightmare however. Just because a few of them made a club, doesn't change his primary classification or impress me in anyway.

So what? Strange invokes his power? How is that relevant really? I can point out that Strange finds Asgardian magic overwhelming and beyond his comprehension or something of that sort in sufficient quantities.

But this is what I mean, so much circumstantial shit is used to support Cytorrak. So I can't help but find it kind of funny as a result that the closest thing we have to a comparison between Odin/Cytorrak heavily favors the Asgardian and some of his fans try to deny it's admissibility.

Lol what? Why? Because Cytorrak wasn't shaking the Multiverse or something? What a completely ridiculous thing to say, Gillen's issue was straight up amazing and he treats Cytorrak with respect. That is without a doubt the best written comic Cytorrak has had the privilege to appear in. He just gave Serpent more ass kissing goodness.

And I'm not sure what it is you dislike. He didn't do contradict anything as far as I know; heck, I'm pretty sure Cain's will overpowered Cytorrak's in the crimson dimension or whatever. Compared to that, how Gillen treats him is aces, and he gave Cytorrak his greatest feat. His only feat now that I think about it.

Man, this post turned out to be a lot longer than I intended it to be. I'm done with this discussion.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
creating a being with higher durability than galactus is not impressive?!

GTFO.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He is a Demon Lord though, closer to someone like Surtur or Mephisto (On a good day) than Nightmare however. Just because a few of them made a club, doesn't change his primary classification or impress me in anyway.

So what? Strange invokes his power? How is that relevant really? I can point out that Strange finds Asgardian magic overwhelming and beyond his comprehension or something of that sort in sufficient quantities.

But this is what I mean, so much circumstantial shit is used to support Cytorrak. So I can't help but find it kind of funny as a result that the closest thing we have to a comparison between Odin/Cytorrak heavily favors the Asgardian and some of his fans try to deny it's admissibility.

Lol what? Why? Because Cytorrak wasn't shaking the Multiverse or something? What a completely ridiculous thing to say, Gillen's issue was straight up amazing and he treats Cytorrak with respect. That is without a doubt the best written comic Cytorrak has had the privilege to appear in. He just gave Serpent more ass kissing goodness.

And I'm not sure what it is you dislike. He didn't do contradict anything as far as I know; heck, I'm pretty sure Cain's will overpowered Cytorrak's in the crimson dimension or whatever. Compared to that, how Gillen treats him is aces, and he gave Cytorrak his greatest feat. His only feat now that I think about it.

Man, this post turned out to be a lot longer than I intended it to be. I'm done with this discussion.
I am not supporting Cyttorak , if you knew the sh1t I had to deal on comicvine with some of his insane fanboys(guys who would make quan seem objective and unbiased by comparison) , then you wouldn't direct this rant at me .

I agree that team Asgard wins here by default due to having the far better feats .

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
creating a being with higher durability than galactus is not impressive?!

lol

guy222
IMHO, T2 wins

followed by Thanos/DS

last is Cytorrak/Juggy

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