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http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/atr_zps0923490d.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/150024-183123-beta-ray-bill_large.jpg

Edge to Bill

How so? Latest Atrocitus's origin has been a revelation on why he's the power level he's at.

Energy ring vs energy absorbing hammer

I'd typically take Atrocitus vs most high heralds though

When has Bill absorbed the energy Atrocitus has?

When has a type of energy not been absorbed by Mjoinir or his clones

Against a normal GL,you'd have a point, Pym.

Am interested in your take on the rage blood thing they got going on though....it's not just energy, right?

Nope, not just energy. Even if it were, I doubt Bill could simply just absorb it.

Atrocitus..he's above any high herald..

I don't think Bill can absorb Atro's powers, but he *might* be able to shield against them.

My biggest question is whether or not Bill can put down Atro for any length of time..?

Split.

I really understand why the red lantern ring's energy gets the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn't get absorbed. For all intents and purposes, most lantern energies are subject to one form of control or another. Even Dr Light was able to do as such.

Don't tell me it's because it comes from his mouth?

Originally posted by Golgo13
When has Bill absorbed the energy Atrocitus has?

Seriously? When has a red lantern ever existed in Marvel?

Depends on which Bill. If it's Storm Breaker he would probably be consumed with so much rage that the ring decides Bill is a more suitable Lantern than Atrocitus.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Depends on which Bill. If it's Storm Breaker he would probably be consumed with so much rage that the ring decides Bill is a more suitable Lantern than Atrocitus.

lol, Atrocitus' rage has weakened recently, but prior he was a virtual embodiment of rage for billions of years. He'd son Bill in that department so bad Bill'd think his life up to that point was heaven.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I really understand why the red lantern ring's energy gets the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn't get absorbed. For all intents and purposes, most lantern energies are subject to one form of control or another. Even Dr Light was able to do as such.

Don't tell me it's because it comes from his mouth?

Red's always been a sort of atypical spectrum. It really shares very little similarity with the other colors in how it's been portrayed (from a usual lack of construct ability to replacing the heart of the wearer and becoming its life force to being able to actually harm Black Lanterns to having some magical connection, etc etc.)

It's not at all unreasonable to treat it entirely differently with regard to energy manipulators, since it's been treated differently by writers since its inception.

Originally posted by Cogito
Red's always been a sort of atypical spectrum. It really shares very little similarity with the other colors in how it's been portrayed (from a usual lack of construct ability to replacing the heart of the wearer and becoming its life force to being able to actually harm Black Lanterns to having some magical connection, etc etc.)

It's not at all unreasonable to treat it entirely differently with regard to energy manipulators, since it's been treated differently by writers since its inception.

...That really doesn't prove anything except the red lantern being completely devoid of imagination. Energy is energy unless you can show a scan where a manipulator or absorber outright stated it's not possible to absorb it or manipulate it.

Now I'm not an expert on RL by any stretch but you guys need to stop making these random assumptions just because they produce their ring's effect like the vomited their guts out or something.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think Bill can absorb Atro's powers, but he *might* be able to shield against them.

My biggest question is whether or not Bill can put down Atro for any length of time..? Do you have evidence that it can't be absorbed or are you just making an assumption? Until it is stated on panel that it can't be, then it is absurd to assume that Atrocitus is the sole exception to the rule.

Alright before anyone points out it's blood with energy yes, i know that. Just keep in mind it's blood with Ren lantern energy.

Its ab assumption that bill could. Unless proven he has dine something similar.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Its ab assumption that bill could. Unless proven he has dine something similar.

Bills hammer absorbs or channel energy. That's fact.

You were inserting the idea bill couldn't absorb the energy in at's attacks. That's either an a assumption or claim.

Since the latter is an assumption, you need to prove it.

To me an energy attack laced with blood isn't too radical of a change to insinuate it shouldn't carry some of the attributes of its base lantern energies. So maybe this will then be one of those agree to disagree threads.

Askin for a red lantern in mu though....

hilarious... sorry

Bill FTW

Still no proof of bill absorbing ateocitus attacks. seeing as its nit just energy.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Bills hammer absorbs or channel energy. That's fact.

You were inserting the idea bill couldn't absorb the energy in at's attacks. That's either an a assumption or claim.

Since the latter is an assumption, you need to prove it.

To me an energy attack laced with blood isn't too radical of a change to insinuate it shouldn't carry some of the attributes of its base lantern energies. So maybe this will then be one of those agree to disagree threads.

Askin for a red lantern in mu though....

hilarious... sorry

Red Spectrum energy is a little bit rage, a little bit blood magic. It's powerful enough to effortlessly tear holes in space/time.

I wouldn't be surprised either way (Stormbreaker absorbing it or not), tbh

I don't generally accept that mjolnir and stormbreaker are auto-wins against Lanterns. Sure, against fodder maybe, but against seasoned vets?

No, imo.

I guess we have to agree to disagree

The hammers aren't auto-wins against Lantern types, no.

They are an significant advantages against said enemies, especially if they're subject to very finite power levels and susceptible to draining or just using up energy in the midst of a prolonged battle.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The hammers aren't auto-wins against Lantern types, no.

They are an significant advantages against said enemies, especially if they're subject to very finite power levels and susceptible to draining or just using up energy in the midst of a prolonged battle.

Not spent THAT much time with the Red Lanterns, tbh.

Is Atrocitus like that?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not spent THAT much time with the Red Lanterns, tbh.

Is Atrocitus like that?

He's not a typical Lantern type, no.

Didny atrocitus merge with one if rhe demons from sector 666? Thats a big power amp ans explains why he can tear through teams and sinestro.

He did have icky alien sex with her...

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Do you have evidence that it can't be absorbed or are you just making an assumption? Until it is stated on panel that it can't be, then it is absurd to assume that Atrocitus is the sole exception to the rule. It's not really in character for Bill to absorb energy like Thor does. Using Stormbreaker to block energy attacks? Sure. Using Stormbreaker to create a fully encapsulating shield against attacks? Sure. Absorbing/redirecting energies, though? Not so much.

...And given the new revelation that the red energy is primarily magic-based (obviously high-level magics), I definitely don't see Bill absorbing it... Stormbreaker may be capable of such, I just don't see Bill using it to do so.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't generally accept that mjolnir and stormbreaker are auto-wins against Lanterns. Sure, against fodder maybe, but against seasoned vets?

No, imo.


Seasoned and named lantern vets should always be a solid enuff match for BRB. Taking Atrocitus here for the slight majority...

^ I don't know why I can't think of any, but what are Atrocitus' most impressive fights? Originally posted by Cogito
It's powerful enough to effortlessly tear holes in space/time. ???

Originally posted by ODG
???

Happened in a RL/Stormwatch crossover (Red Lanterns #10)


Note that he accomplished this after the Central Red Lantern battery was poisoned. The entire RL Corps was dying because the Red Lantern energy literally replaces their life force.

A Red Lantern was captured by Stormwatch (who brought him to their base in hyperspace (which exists outside space). Atrocitus sensed the Red Lantern energy and thought it was Abysmus (who poisoned the battery).

"I'll probably die out here. We ALL will."
"Our Central Battery has been poisoned, Bleez. That means no Red Lantern can last long"
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_SpaceTear.jpg

Atrocitus: "He's here! Somehow hiding... in a void...beyond the fabric of space itself. In which case... I shall... incinerate space..."

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_SpaceTear2.jpg

Atrocitus: "... and then tear nothingness itself"

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_BatteryPoisoned.jpg

Atro's haxxed as phuck.

Originally posted by Galan007
Atro's haxxed as phuck.

What do you mean?

Forgot about that.

Still, Thor did that just by poking his finger.

Originally posted by Golgo13
What do you mean? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=haxxed

Originally posted by Galan007
Atro's haxxed as phuck.

Yep.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=haxxed That's a smart place to find words.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Still no proof of bill absorbing ateocitus attacks. seeing as its nit just energy. Didn't somebody say that A's power is possibly magic-based?
Why would that not work in Bill's favor?

Originally posted by Horrificus
Didn't somebody say that A's power is possibly magic-based?
Why would that not work in Bill's favor?

Are you reading Red Lanterns? It's a combination of many things. Like I said, IF Bill has absorbed something SIMILAR (not the same), then I will concede. Until then, I'm going to say no.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Didn't somebody say that A's power is possibly magic-based?
Why would that not work in Bill's favor? It's blood magic.
Dunno.

Red lantern puke some kinda burning liquid or blood enhance by magic..i don't think stormbreaker can absorb that..

Stormbreaker is a hammer made of an enchanted metal and blessed with magic from odin How is it being doubted to work against a magical attack confounds me.

Btw majority of Bill's enemy encounters were that of bruisers and bricks. Whenever he fights someone who relies more on projectiles, he doesn't shy away from using redirecting or even matching energy attacks head on. See stardust.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Are you reading Red Lanterns? It's a combination of many things. Like I said, IF Bill has absorbed something SIMILAR (not the same), then I will concede. Until then, I'm going to say no.

Originally you said.



Well then, since I'm not that knowledgeable about of the unique properties of RL's projectile vomit are, mind you guys answer the following?

-When has a red lantern's attack been failed to be absorbed a magical artifact capable of redirecting/absorbing energy?

-Who has failed to deflect them? (I think easier to answer since GL's are a dime a dozen now) -- just to gauge the uniqueness of this attack.

Haven't been keeping up with the new series? What makes Red Lantern energy so special?

Someone said energy laced with mystical properties? Not sure if that's true, but it being mystical in nature certainly doesn't hurt the odds.

Honestly, at this point, it's pretty safe to assume that Mjolnir/Stormbreaker would f*ck up any Lantern if the energy manipulating properties were directly applied. For the record, we've seen that Mjolnir's enchantment works perfectly fine on the Phoenix Force (Which he forgot for the last 50% of the event, probably from brain damage) and the Power Cosmic so I doubt Red Lantern energy is too exotic or anything. Not to mention all the other foreign energy those hammers have successfully countered.

they don't puke energy..it's some kinda magical burning liquid..

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haven't been keeping up with the new series? What makes Red Lantern energy so special?

Someone said energy laced with mystical properties? Not sure if that's true, but it being mystical in nature certainly doesn't hurt the odds.

Honestly, at this point, it's pretty safe to assume that Mjolnir/Stormbreaker would f*ck up any Lantern if the energy manipulating properties were directly applied. For the record, we've seen that Mjolnir's enchantment works perfectly fine on the Phoenix Force (Which he forgot for the last 50% of the event, probably from brain damage) and the Power Cosmic so I doubt Red Lantern energy is too exotic or anything. Not to mention all the other foreign energy those hammers have successfully countered. [/QUOTE

Because part of Atroc's power comes from one of the Inversions of sector 666.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
they don't puke energy..it's some kinda magical burning liquid..

Magical burning liquid.... It's their blood + rl energy + blood magic. The energies changes the properties of their blood.

And yes, they are vomitting blood.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it's not magical burning liquid. It's their blood + rl energy + blood magic. The energies changes the properties of their blood.

And yes, they are vomitting blood.

i don't think it's really blood..when they get the red ring..they lose their heart and the ring force them to puke all their blood out and is replace by that liquid..so it's not really energy or blood..it's something else..

It's a type of plasma that they spit, iirc.

hmm maybe. I dunno anymore. Then again, mera did almost die by lack of blood from rl draining. Anyway, irregardless, it's still energized with red lantern energy.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
hmm maybe. I dunno anymore. Then again, mera did almost die by lack of blood from rl draining. Anyway, irregardless, it's still energized with red lantern energy.

u think stormbreaker can absorb that liquid??seriously??

BRB can't beat Atro..this is the guy who takes on Apollo and Manhunter while dying..and he was winning..and Blezz says that at his prime..Atro can kill her with a single punch..Blezz was capable of taking on Guy,Killowog and Arisa alone and they fail to beat her..and Atro can heal from almost anything if i'm not mistaken..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
u think stormbreaker can absorb that liquid??seriously??

BRB can't beat Atro..this is the guy who takes on Apollo and Manhunter while dying..and he was winning..and Blezz says that at his prime..Atro can kill her with a single punch..Blezz was capable of taking on Guy,Killowog and Arisa alone and they fail to beat her..and Atro can heal from almost anything if i'm not mistaken..

What makes you think that it'll absorb the liquid as opposed to just absorb the energy powering it? Harmless red plasma/blood/whatever could just splash over brb for all we know. In the end of the day, there is still red lantern energy and magical energy behind it.

Oh and btw, beating someone in DCnU...not that impressive atm.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What makes you think that it'll absorb the liquid as opposed to just absorb the energy powering it? Harmless red plasma/blood/whatever could just splash over brb for all we know. In the end of the day, there is still red lantern energy and magical energy behind it.

what the hell are u talking about???u think too much..we don't even know how that energy work

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
hmm maybe. I dunno anymore. Then again, mera did almost die by lack of blood from rl draining. Anyway, irregardless, it's still energized with red lantern energy.

And that means what, exactly?

Originally posted by Slaanesh
what the hell are u talking about???u think too much..we don't even know how that energy work

Well you think too narrow and you already dismissed the possibility of the energy getting absorbed attack just because it's muddled with wtf liquid.



Means exactly what i said, it still contains red lantern energy which should be possible to be absorbed. Now as for it's possibility to affect the liquid containing that, like i said, agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Well you think too narrow and you already dismissed the possibility of the energy getting absorbed attack just because it's muddled with wtf liquid.

u say it can be absorb when u don't even know what the hell it is..u need to prove that..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
u say it can be absorb when u don't even know what the hell it is..u need to prove that..

Why?, unless you're retarded you can quite tell i'm not claiming it'll absorb the entire thing including the liquid.

Stop going in circle please.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Why?, unless you're retarded you can quite tell i'm not claiming it'll absorb the entire thing including the liquid.

Stop going in circle please.

u claiming it can absorb something you don't even know about is just stupid..liquid or not doesn't really matter..

lol at the notion that it's inconceivable for BRB to lose to someone who's primary means of offense is largely energy based

also lol at the people who think Atrocitus spits actual liquid. It's not a liquid, folks, it's a form of lantern energy/magic that takes the appearance of a liquid (it can form constructs, but only two people have formed constructs IIRC -- Guy and Rankorr). Again: not a liquid, and certainly not actual blood -- just energy that has a liquid appearance and has been described as burning like plasma

Instead of saying Beta Ray Bill simply absorbs it and wins, can we see evidence of him using said Absorbtions and Rediractions? I'd like to see Bill applying this rather than Thor.

Stardust attacking Bill. Notice that Bill is on the defensive as he's blocking the attack.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/4946/249587-brb_stardust4_super.jpg

Bill then twirls his hammer and redirects that Power Cosmic firestorm back out Stardust and manages to continue with his own blast.
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/4946/249588-brb_stardust5_super.jpg

From a defensive position, Bill turned it into an offensive attack.

Anybody that did not know Bill could do this, did not belong in this thread, posting an opinion.

I remember the Stardust battle, but it's not proof he can absorb the same type of attack atroc gives off. He can block it to a degree and even channel it right back, but absorb it? Nah.

Anyone who hasn't read Red Lanterns needs to do so, before forming an opinion.

I don't think the issue is Bill absorbing/redirecting energy, but whether or not he could - or would - do the same to Atrocitus' red rage power, which isn't quite like typical cosmic energy, but rather a blend of that and mysticism.

On the other hand, given that Stormbreaker is a mystically enchanted weapon equal to Mjolnir, I don't think it's all that implausible Bill could do such a thing.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't think the issue is Bill absorbing/redirecting energy, but whether or not he could - or would - do the same to Atrocitus' red rage power, which isn't quite like typical cosmic energy, but rather a blend of that and mysticism.

On the other hand, given that Stormbreaker is a mystically enchanted weapon equal to Mjolnir, I don't think it's all that implausible Bill could do such a thing.

Good point, but has anyone MANIPULATED Atrocitus's attacks before? Just wondering.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I remember the Stardust battle, but it's not proof he can absorb the same type of attack atroc gives off. He can block it to a degree and even channel it right back, but absorb it? Nah.

Anyone who hasn't read Red Lanterns needs to do so, before forming an opinion. I have. There has been nothing in the books that shows any reason why A's power is beyond Bill.

But, there is evidence of magic-based and energy-based attacks being manipulated, redirected and/or shattered by Stormbreaker's enchantments.

If the evidence is placed on a scale, there is far more evidence supporting the BRB argument, than there is to support the idea that Atrocitus' power is untouchable.

I think Atrocitus's power would eat right through Beta's shields to be honest. Merging with one of the female inversions puts him high herald for sure.

Bill

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Well you think too narrow and you already dismissed the possibility of the energy getting absorbed attack just because it's muddled with wtf liquid.



Means exactly what i said, it still contains red lantern energy which should be possible to be absorbed. Now as for it's possibility to affect the liquid containing that, like i said, agree to disagree.

You need proof, though.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I think Atrocitus's power would eat right through Beta's shields to be honest. Merging with one of the female inversions puts him high herald for sure.

Lol what? I find it kind of funny that you ask for extremely specific examples and then throw out a statement like that. Based on what would Atrocitus' power eat through Stormbreaker's defenses? Few things have a track record as stellar as Mjolnir/Stormbreaker defensively, I can't recall them ever being breached, even when facing powers so far beyond Atrocitus.

It's far more likely that Stormbreaker would f*ck up Red Lantern energy then the energy being able to easily tear through Bill's defenses. It being Red Plasma in no way makes it unique or even exotic compared to what those hammers have mucked with.

I honestly don't understand why it would prove to be any more difficult than Firelord's Power Cosmic, Godly Energy, the Phoenix Force, souls etc. It having an elemental aspect to it in the form of liquid really wouldn't bother an Odin enchanted weapon at all. Red Plasma, meh worthy, Mjolnir has contained ultimate nullification before.

If Atro can use his power to tear a hole through space itself (see page 2), he can breach Bill's shielding, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
If Atro can use his power to tear a hole through space itself (see page 2), he can breach Bill's shielding, imo.

Scans? Any context or did he just puke and rip space apart?

Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Breaching dimensional barriers is weaksauce compared to what Odin enchanted weapons have resisted defensively.

For the record, Thor replicated that shit with a poke and in another instance with a hammer blow. None of that is getting through Stormbreaker's defenses easily or at all. Not to mention all other forces it's worked against that shit on Atrocitus in raw power.

Bill has never used shielding against the same level of attacks that Thor has-- and certainly has never use shields against energies that easily tore through space. Bill=/=Thor.

Unless you can prove that ALL shielding generated by Mjolnir/Stormbreaker are equal, then Thor's feats really don't mean shit where Bill is concerned.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Scans? Any context or did he just puke and rip space apart? Cog posted the scans on page 2.

Originally posted by Galan007
Bill has never used shielding against the same level of attacks that Thor has-- and certainly has never use shields against energies that easily tore through space. Bill=/=Thor.

Unless you can prove that ALL shielding generated by Mjolnir/Stormbreaker are equal, then Thor's feats really don't mean shit where Bill is concerned.

As far as I'm concerned Mjolnir = Stormbreaker in power. Thor and Bill are not as equal overall, but when it comes to abilities that derive from the Odin enchantment, I consider them on par.

Like I said bud, not impressed. Breaching space/time is really keen and cool but it's just space cheese. And is not in itself indicative of the power to penetrate Stormbreaker's shielding because like I pointed out, Thor has accomplished it easily and there's no way he can replicate that with Stormbreaker's defenses.

That's not even taking into account the fact that Mjolinr/Stormbreaker are enchanted to rip through space/time themselves.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cog posted the scans on page 2.

Saw the scan. Seems more like an ability to open up space but by puking which is how most RLs operate. If Surfer holds up his hand and blast space open, that doesn't mean all his blast can tear apart space. My point is, A can open space with his puke, not that his puke is so powerful it's tearing up space because we've seen the majority of his appearances where his puke doesn't do this.

Stardust can open up space too, it doesn't mean all his attacks can tear space it. Vomit for a RL is like a GL pointing his ring and willing things into existence.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As far as I'm concerned Mjolnir = Stormbreaker in power. Thor and Bill are not as equal overall, but when it comes to abilities that derive from the Odin enchantment, I consider them on par.

Like I said bud, not impressed. Breaching space/time is just some more pointless space cheese. And is not indicicative of the power to penetrate Stormbreaker's shielding because like I pointed out, Thor has accomplished easily and there's no way he can replicate that with Stormbreaker's defenses. The weapons themselves are equal, but the methods in which Bill/Thor employ the exotic abilities of said weapons is VASTLY different. Simply put: Thor uses the exotic abilities of his hammer a LOT more, and a LOT better, than Bill. Just because Thor has used Mjolnir one way, doesn't mean Bill would use Stormbreaker the same way. Again: Thor=/=Bill.

I believe Stormbreaker could soak/block Atro's attacks just fine, if said energies struck the hammer itself. However, there's no proof that his shielding would hold up... Especially given that Atro EASILY ripped through space with a single burst of his energy (even Black Bolt's voice had to be focused/amplified for him to preform a similar feat.)

...And I love how often the term "space cheese" is getting used around here. Seems like that's what everyone is calling feats they don't like nowadays. /shrug

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Saw the scan. Seems more like an ability to open up space but by puking which is how most RLs operate. If Surfer holds up his hand and blast space open, that doesn't mean all his blast can tear apart space. My point is, A can open space with his puke, not that his puke is so powerful it's tearing up space because we've seen the majority of his appearances where his puke doesn't do this.

Stardust can open up space too, it doesn't mean all his attacks can tear space it. Vomit for a RL is like a GL pointing his ring and willing things into existence. Atro ripped that shit open by force...

"In which case... I shall... incinerate space...":
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_SpaceTear.jpg
---
"... and then tear nothingness itself":
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_SpaceTear2.jpg


Don't even think it's debatable, tbh. Atro's blast "incinerated space."

Originally posted by Galan007
The weapons themselves are equal, but the methods in which Bill/Thor employ the exotic abilities of said weapons is VASTLY different. Simply put: Thor uses the exotic abilities of his hammer a LOT more, and a LOT better, than Bill. Just because Thor has used Mjolnir one way, doesn't mean Bill would use Stormbreaker the same way. Again: Thor=/=Bill.

I believe Stormbreaker could soak/block Atro's attacks just fine, if said energies struck the hammer itself. However, there's no proof that his shielding would hold up... Especially given that Atro EASILY ripped through space with a single burst of his energy (even Black Bolt's voice had to be focused/amplified for him to preform a similar feat.)

...And I love how often the term "space cheese" is getting used around here. Seems like that's what everyone is calling feats they don't like nowadays. /shrug

Actually, if we averaged out their appearances, Bill might very well be more exotic and a smarter fighter than Thor. That being said, I will not deny that Thor has done things with Mjolnir that Bill has not yet replicated. However, I'm not arguing that Bill is going to replicate the God Blast or anything.

I'm referring to defensive methods, and all of Thor's classically used moves (Vortex, shield, hammer block etc.) has all been replicated by Bill. And since the hammer's are equal in power, I don't even see what their is to debate about. Shielding is something Bill has employed more than once.

Holy shit, I've said this more than once, but I'll say it one more time just so it sticks. Being able to breach space/time is not in itself evidence that Atrocitus can penetrate Stormbreaker's defenses. What don't you understand man? Thor has done the very same with a single hammer blow, a poke, he's casually blocked energies from beings that fart and blow a hole through space/time.

It's not special, it's really not even that impressive in the grand scheme of elites.

I mean common, heralds do that shit regularly for travel when they tear open space with wormholes etc. Heck, Stardust tore a hole in space-time when he summoned the gateway to Azeroth's prison with a sweep of his weapon. And compared to Bill's defenses, he was b*tch made.

Anyways, if you still don't get it then I give up, to each his own. Unless you want to take it to a battlezone (Which I'm actually down for since I have some spare time), I'm done with this topic of discussion.

i kinda agree with WWK. the barf opened a gate a couple meters in front, so that's kinda weird if you take his prose literally.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Actually, if we averaged out their appearances, Bill might very well be more exotic and a smarter fighter than Thor. That being said, I will not deny that Thor has done things with Mjolnir that Bill has not yet replicated. However, I'm not arguing that Bill is going to replicate the God Blast or anything.

I'm referring to defensive methods, and all of Thor's classically used moves (Vortex, shield, hammer block etc.) has all been replicated by Bill. And since the hammer's are equal in power, I don't even see what their is to debate about. Shielding is something Bill has employed more than once.

Holy shit, I've said this more than once, but I'll say it one more time just so it sticks. Being able to breach space/time is not in itself evidence that Atrocitus can penetrate Stormbreaker's defenses. What don't you understand man? Thor has done the very same with a single hammer blow, a poke, he's casually blocked energies from beings that fart and blow a hole through space/time.

It's not special, it's really not even that impressive in the grand scheme of elites.

I mean common, heralds do that shit regularly. Heck, Stardust tore a hole in space-time when he summoned the gateway to Azeroth's prison with a sweep of his weapon.

Anyways, if you still don't get it then I give up, to each his own. Unless you want to take it to a battlezone (Which I'm actually down for since I have some spare time), I'm done with this topic of discussion. You're downplaying blasting a hole in space, just because "Thor's done it too." Superman once saved the omniverse by vibrating. Does that mean saving the omniverse is 'teh weeksawce'? C'mon. Don't downplay just to downplay. Anyone who reads comics knows that creating a tear in the fabric of space by "incinerating space" is a pretty damn good feat.

Again: Bill's hammer can hold up to Atro's attacks IF said attacks hit the hammer itself. There is NO evidence, however, that Bill's external shielding can hold up to those same attacks... Because he's never used external shielding to defend against attacks of that magnitude. Never. If you disagree, then I challenge you to post a single scan to the contrary. Conversely, Bill HAS used Stormbreaker itself to block high-level attacks-- which is why Stormbreaker itself can block Atro's energies.

Originally posted by Galan007
Atro ripped that shit open by force...

"In which case... I shall... incinerate space...":
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_SpaceTear.jpg
---
"... and then tear nothingness itself":
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_SpaceTear2.jpg


Don't even think it's debatable, tbh. Atro's blast "incinerated space."

Except every other time he vomits it doesn't incinerate space. He blast a hole through space by a concentration and rage. A GL will a blast to open space would be not different. It's just an ability to open up space channeled through vomit and rage, his vomit doesn't exactly open up space just because it's that powerful,otherwise all his previous vomits would've torn apart space.

well no, he chose to do it and that blast would be for that purpose, but i think the issue is assuming he did so with heat and not just a "warp gate beam"

It's right there in black and white: Atro "incinerated space."



ie. Atro "destroyed space."

Originally posted by Galan007
It's right there in black and white: Atro "incinerated space."



ie. Atro "destroyed space."

That's great. So how many fights did he win with this attack?

Bill surviving two blackholes.

http://i46.tinypic.com/5notvt.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/122g77s.jpg

I'm only talking about Atro's attack breaching Bill's external shielding. Nothing more.

Nice of you to post that huge scan, though.

lol

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm only talking about Atro's attack breaching Bill's external shielding. Nothing more.

Nice of you to post that huge scan, though.

Free internet scans, take what I can get. I'm sure you've got DSL or cable at this point. Maybe somebody poor Afghan with his dial-up wouldn't like what I just did.

Phuck Afghans.

Originally posted by Galan007
Phuck Afghans.

lol, just don't talk about their religion.

Originally posted by Galan007
If Atro can use his power to tear a hole through space itself (see page 2), he can breach Bill's shielding, imo.

exactly my thoughts. Didnt guy garsnwr with the red ring tear throufh multiple lanterns like nothing?

Originally posted by Golgo13
exactly my thoughts. Didnt guy garsnwr with the red ring tear throufh multiple lanterns like nothing?

Lantern emotions are hard to put into perspective of who is stronger, when its fodder lanterns.

I would put my money on BRB to be safe. He equal Thor in strength, before becoming the BRB we know now.

Originally posted by vansonbee
Lantern emotions are hard to put into perspective of who is stronger, when its fodder lanterns.

I would put my money on BRB to be safe. He equal Thor in strength, before becoming the BRB we know now.

I think it was Kyle, John, and the rest of the corps. Hardly fodder lanterns.

Guy as a red lantern almost single-handedly turned the tide of battle against the black lanterns.

Quite possibly the greatest "come at me bro" in comics. Ever.

Originally posted by Golgo13
exactly my thoughts. Didnt guy garsnwr with the red ring tear throufh multiple lanterns like nothing? Guy Gardner is certainly the most impressive Red Lantern so far. And Guy Gardner has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, which involves Atrocitus.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Quite possibly the greatest "come at me bro" in comics. Ever. nope

hulk.

....

thanos
sbp

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
That's great. So how many fights did he win with this attack?

Bill surviving two blackholes.


WTF

That clearly shows BRB being negatively affected by the black holes (to what potential end, I have no idea) until he destroyed the machine creating them.

That's no survival feat.

and furthermore, it has nothing to do with incinerating space itself.

Nice scan, though

Originally posted by psycho gundam
nope

hulk.

....

thanos
sbp

prime sucks.

Originally posted by Cogito
WTF

That clearly shows BRB being negatively affected by the black holes (to what potential end, I have no idea) until he destroyed the machine creating them.

That's no survival feat.

and furthermore, it has nothing to do with incinerating space itself.

Nice scan, though

He gets hit by that attack and two singularity couldn't even rip him apart while he manages to throw Stormbreaker. How is that not survival? Incinerating space sounds neat but space was ripped apart by two singularity with Bill get caught it between and even then he didn't get torn to pieces.

One tears up a hole in space while one resisted the gravity pull two singularity.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He gets hit by that attack and two singularity couldn't even rip him apart while he manages to throw Stormbreaker. How is that not survival? Incinerating space sounds neat but space was ripped apart by two singularity with Bill get caught it between and even then he didn't get torn to pieces.

One tears up a hole in space while one resisted the gravity pull two singularity.

Every herald and their mom has black hole resistance feats.

Superman held on in his hands. Gladiator (allegedly) tore one in half. Not impressed by BRB in those scans.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He gets hit by that attack and two singularity couldn't even rip him apart while he manages to throw Stormbreaker. How is that not survival? Incinerating space sounds neat but space was ripped apart by two singularity with Bill get caught it between and even then he didn't get torn to pieces.

One tears up a hole in space while one resisted the gravity pull two singularity.

People sleepin on Bill.

The hammers, Stormbreaker and Mjolnir have been officially declared "equal", by Odin and other sources I believe.

Bill
1. Going on the assumption that they are equal, can any knowledgeable members post the greatest feats of Defense/Shielding?

2. Or, for those of you that do not feel the weapons are equal, feel free to post the same kinds of feats for each separate hammers.

Atrocitus-
3. Also, what are the greatest feats of damage caused by the red energy/vomit?

4. Are there any instances of the red energy/vomit being deflected, shrugged off, negated, absorbed, blocked, etc?




A good place to start.

Because, as far as I can tell, if hammer enchantment has been able to contain the effects of "Ultimate Nullification", it should be able to handle the effects of Atrocitus energy/vomit.

Originally posted by Horrificus
The hammers, Stormbreaker and Mjolnir have been officially declared "equal", by Odin and other sources I believe.

Bill
1. Going on the assumption that they are equal, can any knowledgeable members post the greatest feats of Defense/Shielding?

2. Or, for those of you that do not feel the weapons are equal, feel free to post the same kinds of feats for each separate hammers.

Atrocitus-
3. Also, what are the greatest feats of damage caused by the red energy/vomit?

4. Are there any instances of the red energy/vomit being deflected, shrugged off, negated, absorbed, blocked, etc?




A good place to start.

Because, as far as I can tell, if hammer enchantment has been able to contain the effects of "Ultimate Nullification", it should be able to handle the effects of Atrocitus energy/vomit.

That was my question, but I don't think so. The rage/blood Atro and the others spew just eats right through everything. Some more powerful than others, of course.

I'm really surprised people are so taken aback by ripping holes in space/time. Bill and Thor do that on a regular basis with the hammers.

A weakened Atro, but I don't think anyone here said he was the only character capable of doing said feat.

Yes, but rings in general have been shown capable of ripping holes in space/time.

Even Geoff I powered down GL's Johns?

Yeah, even them.

Originally posted by Cogito
Every herald and their mom has black hole resistance feats.

Superman held on in his hands. Gladiator (allegedly) tore one in half. Not impressed by BRB in those scans.

But we should all be impressive by space being torn? Even Magneto has torn it apart. Two singularity does what Atrocitus does and more (gravitational crush), but we should believe Atrocitus' power is more potent? Bill takes that vomit and shoves Stormbreaker down Atrocitus mouth and blast him to pieces.

BRB is as durable as rookie lanterns or less by those scans.

Originally posted by abhilegend
BRB is as durable as rookie lanterns or less by those scans.

Lanterns seem to die left and right.


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090731032535/marvel_dc/images/thumb/f/f8/Arx_04.jpg/586px-Arx_04.jpg

WTF is this shiet? HAHAHA. Lol. Even Superman didn't die from a gas explosion.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121002104324/marvel_dc/images/c/c3/B'rr_001.jpg

Dies in a black hole.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/13181/296071-164739-tarkus-whin.JPG

Rookie GL's back in the day were easily able to open and close black holes.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Rookie GL's back in the day were easily able to open and close black holes.

Bill warping space to own a black hole.
http://s673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/?action=view&current=brb_misc11.jpg

Random GL saving 1/3600 of the universe.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_23_glc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_24_glc.jpg

Random GL FTW
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl164_24_glc.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Originally posted by Golgo13
Random GL saving 1/3600 of the universe.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_23_glc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_24_glc.jpg

Random GL FTW
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl164_24_glc.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Ergo random GL would wreck Atrocitus too since Atrocitus didn't do any of that sh1t.

Guys, stop lowballing.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lanterns seem to die left and right.


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090731032535/marvel_dc/images/thumb/f/f8/Arx_04.jpg/586px-Arx_04.jpg

WTF is this shiet? HAHAHA. Lol. Even Superman didn't die from a gas explosion.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121002104324/marvel_dc/images/c/c3/B'rr_001.jpg

Dies in a black hole.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/13181/296071-164739-tarkus-whin.JPG
Context isn't your friend. Two rookie lanterns (got their rings the same day) got trapped in a black hole after tanking when a star went supernova and collapsed into a BH. They were absolutely fine when kilowog rescued them a few hours later. This is after Johns' GL. Compared to that BRB would've died from a supernova.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Context isn't your friend. Two rookie lanterns (got their rings the same day) got trapped in a black hole after tanking when a star went supernova and collapsed into a BH. They were absolutely fine when kilowog rescued them a few hours later. This is after Johns' GL. Compared to that BRB would've died from a supernova.

Apparently excuses is your best friend. You claimed rookies took better shots than Bill. I showed you rookies and noobs getting killed. Lol, they were trapped in said black hole. You got proof Bill wasn't going to be fine either? Please, where's the evidence that he would've been harmed if he was pulled in?

Basically it's just further proof that Atrocitus' space tearing feet ain't going to win him any contest against Bill. OMG, he ripped apart space with his powahz. Lol, like Bill hasn't?

You mean this supernova scene where he's inside of it and then flies out? The guy is a Korbonite who's people lived in the burning galaxy, heat actually revies them. Nice try at that bs.
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13096236_2.jpg

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Apparently excuses is your best friend. You claimed rookies took better shots than Bill. I showed you rookies and noobs getting killed. Lol, they were trapped in said black hole. You got proof Bill wasn't going to be fine either? Please, where's the evidence that he would've been harmed if he was pulled in?

Basically it's just further proof that Atrocitus' space tearing feet ain't going to win him any contest against Bill. OMG, he ripped apart space with his powahz. Lol, like Bill hasn't?

You mean this supernova scene where he's inside of it and then flies out? The guy is a Korbonite who's people lived in the burning galaxy, heat actually revies them. Nice try at that bs.
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13096236_2.jpg
You have such an amazing ability to be wrong everytime you post. Don't waste it.

BTW, here is two rookie lanterns tanking a supernova and a massive blackhole and THAT lantern from korugar was alive too.
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=recharge02pg170je.jpg
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=recharge02pg180ny.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/474/recharge02pg194lf.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/474/recharge02pg227jg.jpg/

Atrocitus was handling these rookie lanterns like jokes and that's why space cheese is stupid to use. BRB was KTFO by a planet exploding too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You have such an amazing ability to be wrong everytime you post. Don't waste it.

BTW, here is two rookie lanterns tanking a supernova and a massive blackhole and THAT lantern from korugar was alive too.
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=recharge02pg170je.jpg
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=recharge02pg180ny.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/474/recharge02pg194lf.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/474/recharge02pg227jg.jpg/

Atrocitus was handling these rookie lanterns like jokes and that's why space cheese is stupid to use. BRB was KTFO by a planet exploding too.

First we see him away from the sun, then he's in it and flies out of it. You even see that the burst threw it. Where does he die again? Funny how you claim he would die yet he no actual showing the he's even vulnerable. Two black holes couldn't even rip him apart so yeah he could withstand them.

I like how you showed those pics as if it matter when rookies have died left and right by black holes and less.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
First we see him away from the sun, then he's in it and flies out of it. You even see that the burst threw it. Where does he die again? Funny how you claim he would die yet he no actual showing the he's even vulnerable. Two black holes couldn't even rip him apart so yeah he could withstand them.

I like how you showed those pics as if it matter when rookies have died left and right by black holes and less.
He was drifting towards it and it was made clear that a supernova would've killed him.

Only one died IIRC.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was drifting towards it and it was made clear that a supernova would've killed him.

Only one died IIRC.

And they said Thanos was afraid of Hulk. But we found out otherwise when they actually fought. So what? Did he die or was he ever harm by anything like that? Narration says one thing but he was never expose so we don't know. He even prove he body without two singularity pulling at it. He's not vulnerable as you're trying to make him out to be. And by the way, Atrocitus' vomit isn't the power of a supernova.

Only one died doesn't change the fact that one died.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
And they said Thanos was afraid of Hulk. But we found out otherwise when they actually fought. So what? Did he die or was he ever harm by anything like that? Narration says one thing but he was never expose so we don't know. He even prove he body without two singularity pulling at it. He's not vulnerable as you're trying to make him out to be. And by the way, Atrocitus' vomit isn't the power of a supernova.

Only one died doesn't change the fact that one died.
Narration didn't claim thanos was afraid of hulk and these red herrings are useless. Narration told us clearly he would've died and that's it.

I said it was a split in the start.

He was KTFO by a planet exploding. He would've died from a supernova and it doesn't takes a supernova or planet exploding to take out bill in general.

Great, 1 out of 7200. What a mindblowing ratio!

Originally posted by abhilegend
Narration didn't claim thanos was afraid of hulk and these red herrings are useless. Narration told us clearly he would've died and that's it.

Because narration always trumps characters words and actions?



So because he got knocked by a planet explosion he would die in a supernova? I guess this Lantern would die in a supernova too because a punch by the guy with no powers Koed him.
http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/c/cd/Guy_Gardner_KTFO.jpg




Awesome! Now where is the scans of the other 7199 Lanterns surviving a black hole?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Because narration always trumps characters words and actions? At least it trumps your biased opinions.



That and the narration telling us. You really don't know anything about context, do you? Guy removed his ring at that point.
facepalm





I read it again and the fact that you don't know about anything you're talking about is correct. The black hole didn't kill him, he was killed by spider-guild.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_Green_Lantern_Corps_Recharge_01_Page_03.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_Green_Lantern_Corps_Recharge_03-16.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_Green_Lantern_Corps_Recharge_03-17.jpg

So its now 0 lanterns died from black holes and 4 of them survived by them. Ratio is infinite.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Because narration always trumps characters words and actions?

Who said that?

============

Also, guys, I'm not going to ask again. Start being civil or put one another on ignore.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Who said that?

============

Also, guys, I'm not going to ask again. Start being civil or put one another on ignore.
I'm being perfectly civil.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm being perfectly civil.

Personal comments isn't being civil.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Personal comments isn't being civil.
Ok I would stop that as well.

Good. sneer

Originally posted by -Pr-
Who said that?

Where narration makes claim that Bill would die if he was hit by a supernova. Except he never does so it's unproven. A few books later Bill is in the middle of two black holes which couldn't rip him apart.


Also my point is that Thanos claimed he was afraid to fight the Hulk but when they met he beat like a child. But this isn't as good because according to him, narration didn't make that claim so it wasn't a valid. Narration makes false claim all the time in comics. So do character comments. Not saying it's false but it isn't concrete either.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Also my point is that Thanos claimed he was afraid to fight the Hulk but when they met he beat like a child. But this isn't as good because according to him, narration didn't make that claim so it wasn't a valid. Narration makes false claim all the time in comics. So do character comments. Not saying it's false but it isn't concrete either. That Thanos fears Hulk myth was busted in a thread called something like: comic mythbusters or something. Bran posted all scans disproving this IIRC.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Where narration makes claim that Bill would die if he was hit by a supernova. Except he never does so it's unproven. A few books later Bill is in the middle of two black holes which couldn't rip him apart.


Also my point is that Thanos claimed he was afraid to fight the Hulk but when they met he beat like a child. But this isn't as good because according to him, narration didn't make that claim so it wasn't a valid. Narration makes false claim all the time in comics. So do character comments. Not saying it's false but it isn't concrete either.

Most of the time, I take actions to have as much value as narration (narration is needed for exposition and to deal with artist **** ups), and character statements come last.

Narration isn't always foolproof, imo.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Where narration makes claim that Bill would die if he was hit by a supernova. Except he never does so it's unproven. A few books later Bill is in the middle of two black holes which couldn't rip him apart.


Also my point is that Thanos claimed he was afraid to fight the Hulk but when they met he beat like a child. But this isn't as good because according to him, narration didn't make that claim so it wasn't a valid. Narration makes false claim all the time in comics. So do character comments. Not saying it's false but it isn't concrete either.

That was too vastly different Hulks. Thanos engaged a much weaker version. Yet in a later scene you see Hulk subduing Thanos.
Savage Hulk>>>>>>Professor Hulk in most cases since his strength grows faster and more randomly. Savage Hulk was the one Thanos was afraid of, not the weaker Professor Hulk.

Also a black does nothing to you unless you are deep within the event horizon. BRB never entered the event horizon and thus only experienced minimal force that even a meta could withstand.

Supernovas and black holes are different beasts. One has burning energy and the other only gravitational pulling force. There's a big difference between surviving an energy blast attack and being pulled apart.

FWIW, stardust said that a bigger black hole would kill both her and BRB when asteroth created one using stardust's energies and bill agreed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
FWIW, stardust said that a bigger black hole would kill both her and BRB when asteroth created one using stardust's energies and bill agreed. r u sure Bill wasn't rolling his eyes or laughing when he agreed?

because that is SO him!

Bump.

Atros wins

Apparently Atrocitus was reborn and had a power up, I don't know Green Lantern has been shit so I haven't been keeping up. If he's above Herald level now, then I guess he wins.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Apparently Atrocitus was reborn and had a power up, I don't know Green Lantern has been shit so I haven't been keeping up. If he's above Herald level now, then I guess he wins. It was nota power up nor was he reborn. It was all talk and metaphorical

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It was nota power up nor was he reborn. It was all talk and metaphorical

I'll read the story eventually. I heard that he took on a bunch of Red Lanterns so I guess that's impressive (Not really, fodder Lanterns are fodder).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'll read the story eventually. I heard that he took on a bunch of Red Lanterns so I guess that's impressive (Not really, fodder Lanterns are fodder). He ordered them to kill him because he no longer had rage as he once did among other reasons. Their rage rejuvenated his own rage and gave him new meaning,and so he was reborn. Their attacks weren't affecting him because they were rage

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He ordered them to kill him because he no longer had rage as he once did among other reasons. Their rage rejuvenated his own rage and gave him new meaning,and so he was reborn. Their attacks weren't affecting him because they were rage

Sounds a bit...convoluted.

So there were circumstances? Okay. Also lol, I'd like to see a Red Lantern fight the Hulk if their attacks are pure rage. Should turn out to be fun.

Bill wins.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Apparently Atrocitus was reborn and had a power up, I don't know Green Lantern has been shit so I haven't been keeping up. If he's above Herald level now, then I guess he wins.
It wasn't really a power up so far Atros has been concentrating on his rage only which was kinda limiting him and his power....

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/2161/72026073.th.jpg


His battle with his Corps made him realize he can feel others rage and it even empowers him...
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15761013_a7.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15761015_a8.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15761017_a9.jpg

So now he has more "focus" on his powers....

http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7236/focusn.th.jpg

Now he can feel hate inside others...
http://imageshack.us/a/img802/3232/13533936.th.jpg