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(Both fighters are at their prime!) To make this...interesting...The battle will be on Endor, no rules just a straight up death match, who wins and why?

Bane. He has better feats in both lightsaber combat and the force. To be frank, Malak is pretty much unknown in terms of how good he is in a fight, since we only have the video game to go on. Bane on the other hand has an very well-documented abilities, and they're very impressive.

Bane. He is far more powerful than Malak.

Malak's pretty strong, but he was never able to beat Revan for a reason. He's a step down from the top tier Sith.

Bane, whether in Force, sabers, or all out. I've seen nothing that indicates Malak would be capable of surviving the full brunt of Bane's Force techniques or his saber skills.

Originally posted by Q99
Malak's pretty strong, but he was never able to beat Revan for a reason. He's a step down from the top tier Sith.

Ehhh many hints in KOTOR I hint that Malak surpassed Darth Revan and that Redeemed Revan was>>Darth Revan.

If I recall those hints were just Malak boasting that he was more powerful. Right before Revan punked him.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ehhh many hints in KOTOR I hint that Malak surpassed Darth Revan

Indeed?

For all his supposed idiocy, I'm rather fond of Malak: pragmatic and direct, as all Sith should be. Your Master is cornered by a Jedi strike force? Open fire. Your elusive target is running rampant throughout the underbelly of Taris? Glass the planet. When she's eventually captured and you wish to co-opt her abilities for your own use? Don't bother with persuasion, torture her into submission.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If I recall those hints were just Malak boasting that he was more powerful. Right before Revan punked him.

No, the Jedi Council implies early game that Malak was well on his way to becoming on par with his old master.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No, the Jedi Council implies early game that Malak was well on his way to becoming on par with his old master.

I'm pretty sure they didn't.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ehhh many hints in KOTOR I hint that Malak surpassed Darth Revan and that Redeemed Revan was>>Darth Revan.

Nah. However, the game does hint that Redeemed Revan is greater than Darth Revan.... But the novel proves the opposite.

According to TOR era it sounds true.
Revan was far more powerful than Malak. Exile was so powerful that defeated immortal Sion, Force consuming and starship lifting Nihilus and Traya that apprenticed both of those dudes. Nyriss was far more than Exile. Then Revan reclaimed mask and became far more powerful than Nyriss. But Exile wasn't weak, Revan said to her: "I always knew you had great potential, but you have become far greater than I could ever have imagined." He couldn't imagine that with help of Scourge she could last more than two seconds against Nyriss.
Then Vitiate was far more powerful than Revan. And finaly we have Jedi knight who was so powerful that defeated Emperor in the middle of darkside nexus.

Unquestionably Bane is far more powerful than Malak and will stomp him in less than two seconds.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ehhh many hints in KOTOR I hint that Malak surpassed Darth Revan and that Redeemed Revan was>>Darth Revan.

If that's the case, then I'd *still* say Malak's a level below the top tier Sith. That'd just make Darth Revan lower as well (if it's true).

Bane stomps.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane. He has better feats in both lightsaber combat and the force. To be frank, Malak is pretty much unknown in terms of how good he is in a fight, since we only have the video game to go on. Bane on the other hand has an very well-documented abilities, and they're very impressive.
Hate to break it to you buddy but this type of thinking reeks of 'personal liking' rather then a cogent and logical assessment.

Yes, Bane is much better explored in mediums but this does not indicates that he will walk all over over other prominent individuals in history who happen to be less explored.

To be fair, I think that both can win or loose in this fight. The possibility of loosing to a ruler of a formidable Sith Empire isn't going to dent Darth Bane's formidable reputation and standing.

It is just that Darth Malak is immensely underrated in terms of skill and power when his accomplishments demonstrate otherwise. Loosing to Revan at the height of his power doesn't means that he is a looser. Fact is that Revan is too damn powerful.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
Bane. He is far more powerful than Malak.
Logically! He isn't.

Originally posted by Q99
Malak's pretty strong, but he was never able to beat Revan for a reason. He's a step down from the top tier Sith.
We had good discussion about this here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t574988.html

I think that Darth Malak is logically a top tier Sith material; only heavily underestimated. And I am sure that you now agree with me on this.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Bane, whether in Force, sabers, or all out. I've seen nothing that indicates Malak would be capable of surviving the full brunt of Bane's Force techniques or his saber skills.
Ask Drew Karpyshyn and he will tell you something different.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If I recall those hints were just Malak boasting that he was more powerful. Right before Revan punked him.
And got punked afterwards but was saved by Bastilla's interference.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
For all his supposed idiocy, I'm rather fond of Malak: pragmatic and direct, as all Sith should be. Your Master is cornered by a Jedi strike force? Open fire. Your elusive target is running rampant throughout the underbelly of Taris? Glass the planet. When she's eventually captured and you wish to co-opt her abilities for your own use? Don't bother with persuasion, torture her into submission.
You spoke my mind here.

Originally posted by Q99
If that's the case, then I'd *still* say Malak's a level below the top tier Sith. That'd just make Darth Revan lower as well (if it's true).
Keep in mind that Darth Bane envisioned Darth Revan as a champion of the dark side;

Bane wasn't surprised that Kas'im didn't recognize the quote. The words had been written by Darth Revan nearly three millennia earlier. The Masters were as lax as the students when it came to studying the ancient writings. It seemed the Academy had turned its back on the past champions of the dark side. (Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

Darth Revan's canonical standing is that he is among the most powerful and dangerous Sith Lords in history.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Bane stomps.
Utterly baseless point.

I don't see why people think so lowly of Darth Malak in comparison to other big names within the history of the Sith Order when he have infact demonstrated sufficient skill for the said purpose. He have demonstrated the ability to handle multiple opponents simultaneously in single combat on several occasions (like other very powerful Sith Lords) and have successfully managed and commanded a whole Sith Empire (which few have done). Only Revan defeated him and this duel aboard Star Forge according to the author of the story was of epic proportions:

"You might have min-maxed your character to smack Darth Malak down in seconds without breaking a sweat, but in a book that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages." (Drew Karpyshyn)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Ask Drew Karpyshyn and he will tell you something different.




Why don't you quote Drew saying something different. Otherwise, your argument is baseless. Revan is the Sith of note whom Bane learned from, not Malak.

You can say as you like that you feel Malak is underestimated in terms of where he falls, but when threads about the top Force users/duelists ever pop up, Malak never seems to get the nod.

The burden is on you to show something speaking to Malak demonstrating being at a level above and beyond Bane. His orbalisk incarnation leaves him almost invulnerable and pumped in the Force, and his DoE abilities have been noted quite thoroughly, including his ability to survive saber combat while completely unarmed.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why don't you quote Drew saying something different. Otherwise, your argument is baseless. Revan is the Sith of note whom Bane learned from, not Malak.

You can say as you like that you feel Malak is underestimated in terms of where he falls, but when threads about the top Force users/duelists ever pop up, Malak never seems to get the nod.

The burden is on you to show something speaking to Malak demonstrating being at a level above and beyond Bane. His orbalisk incarnation leaves him almost invulnerable and pumped in the Force, and his DoE abilities have been noted quite thoroughly, including his ability to survive saber combat while completely unarmed.

No he is right, Malak on the Star Forge is stated to have given redeemed Revan a tough ass fight. Also I am almost positive that the Council comments on Malak rivaling Revan in power.
From Drew:
"You might have min-maxed your character to smack Darth Malak down in seconds without breaking a sweat, but in a book that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."
In other words Redeemed Revan>Malak (just barely). Malak is probably the person who would be the most familiar with Revan's power level. He's a pretty viable source. In defeat he says that Revan was more powerful than him and more powerful than he ever was as the Dark Lord.
Also the way how Revan goes power wise is
Novel Revan>Redeemed Revan> Darth Revan

Also if we want to go by Drew statements.
Revan=Vader=Bane

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why don't you quote Drew saying something different. Otherwise, your argument is baseless.
If this helps:

Drew considers Darth Malak as a master of lightsaber combat. Also, Drew believes that a fight between powerful individuals can swing either way depending upon the circumstances.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Revan is the Sith of note whom Bane learned from, not Malak.
I agree. And this knowledge transformed him in to a true Sith Lord of power.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
You can say as you like that you feel Malak is underestimated in terms of where he falls, but when threads about the top Force users/duelists ever pop up, Malak never seems to get the nod.
I don't feel so but this is actually the case. People foolishly underestimate Darth Malak when canonical information have established and promoted him as a powerful individual.

He was a powerful Jedi:

Powerful individuals from Lord Adasca to Squint to Demagol learn that Jarael might be more than she acknowledges-or realizes. (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

And he became even more powerful Sith Lord:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Malak:

"Because they were known heroes of the Mandalorian Wars, many Jedi Knights regarded "the revanchist" and his former apprentice Alek as champions, and eagerly joined their cause." (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

NOTE: Reputation does not comes out of thin air; it is earned with achievements.

"Or that they would discover relics created by the pre-Republic Rakata civilization as well as numerous Sith artifacts, and used these in combination with their dark side powers to very nearly crush the Republic?" (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

"The Council had decided that the amnesiac Revan, reconditioned with a new identity as a Force-using soldier of the Republic, would be their best chance to defeat Malak. And they were right." (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

NOTE: Revan was the only Jedi in the Galaxy; capable of stopping Malak in his best days.

Aboard Leviathan, Darth Malak single-handedly engaged Carth Onasi (a highly decorated Republic Officer), Bastilla Shan (a powerful Jedi) and Revan (extraordinarily powerful Jedi) simultaneously and held his own against them forcing Revan and Carth to retreat while he subdued Bastilla Shan in single combat. This battle alone should elevate his position within the ranks of elites of the Sith in history.

You will be surprised that why I considered Bastilla Shan powerful?

A Jedi strike team assembled to capture Revan-and redeem him, if possible. Under the command of the powerful Jedi Bastilla Shan, the strike team attacked Revan's flagship, boarded his vessel, and confronted the mighty Sith. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

At the height of his power, Darth Malak was labelled as "nearly unstoppable" in the official databank.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
The burden is on you to show something speaking to Malak demonstrating being at a level above and beyond Bane. His orbalisk incarnation leaves him almost invulnerable and pumped in the Force, and his DoE abilities have been noted quite thoroughly, including his ability to survive saber combat while completely unarmed.
I am not saying that Malak is beyond Bane. My point is that he seems to be a match for Bane at minimum, keeping in mind his accomplishments and power ranking within TOR era.

At peak, both Bane and Malak seem to be nearly unstoppable, IMO.

That, I have to say, is a much better argument for Malak's abilities. His strength is not lacking, and that augmented by whatever artifacts are mentioned above, but I'm not seeing any speed feats that make him more capable than DoE Bane, or direct assertions about his skill in the Force that would give him a chance against Bane in orbalisk armor.

Again, Revan is noted by Bane for his knowledge and who he was to the Sith and Jedi of his era, but per actual showings neither he nor Malak have their mantles taken up by anyone as the best of the best in threads on the greatest of all time. Feel free to correct me if you disagree.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
neither he nor Malak have their mantles taken up by anyone as the best of the best in threads on the greatest of all time

And that means...?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
That, I have to say, is a much better argument for Malak's abilities.
Thanks.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
His strength is not lacking, and that augmented by whatever artifacts are mentioned above, but I'm not seeing any speed feats that make him more capable than DoE Bane, or direct assertions about his skill in the Force that would give him a chance against Bane in orbalisk armor.
We certainly have little knowledge of Malak's speed feats; one feat which I recall is that when Carth Onasi opened fire on Malak from close distance, Malak was not in a battle-ready stance but responded with a speed of thought and disarmed the famed Republic officer. This feat may not look impressive in KoTOR game but would certainly look impressive in a big budget medium. In contrast we have an example of a PT era Jedi Master Coleman Trebor, utterly failing to defend himself in a similar scenario and he was in battle-ready stance. And most importantly, Malak proved to be a challenge for Revan:

As a massive space battle raged around the Star Forge, Revan boarded the station - but his progress was blocked by Bastilla Shan, now corrupted as Malak's apprentice. Revan overpowered Bastilla and saved her from Malak's insidious influence, thus restoring her to the path of the light side. Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Therefore, it makes sense to assume that Malak wouldn't be lacking in speed, reflexes and things that define a fine warrior.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Again, Revan is noted by Bane for his knowledge and who he was to the Sith and Jedi of his era,
Correction: Bane envisioned Revan as a champion of the dark side and rightfully so.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
but per actual showings neither he nor Malak have their mantles taken up by anyone as the best of the best in threads on the greatest of all time. Feel free to correct me if you disagree.
People tend to focus on aesthetically pleasing/appealing aspects of the duels; this is in human nature. We see neither Revan and nor Malak featured in big budget mediums, therefore they are often underrated in capabilities. On top of this, Drew's writing skills in Revan novel rather complicated the Jedi's picture then address it. However, the novel still promotes Revan as an extraordinarily powerful Force-wielder - capable of holding his own against greatest of the odds in the Galaxy. Arguments like speed feats and such seem petty in comparison when a person of such repute is discussed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And that means...?

I was simply stating that when such discussions come up there are lengthy postings of supporting evidence for those who should make the top of the list, and rarely if ever is Malak mentioned in such company as there are few showings that suggest elevating him to that level.

^As to the above, I'm not saying that Malak is horrid, but weak writing or no, I'm still not seeing presentation of hardline ability that would allow him to overcome a peak Bane.

Even by the end of PoD he was a top duelist, and by DoE his speed, agility, and Force adaptation are borderline ridiculous. There need to be some pretty strong showings by Malak that specifically suggest he could overcome Bane. I hadn't seen anything of Gethzarion until recently, but those who argued for her overcoming Marek cited enough evidence that it's reasonable to say that she may have been able to defeat him should they go head-to-head.

I don't need glorious presentation of ability, but I would like specifics as to what skills Malak has that would allow him to take the day, not just that his duel with Revan was vicious.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I was simply stating that when such discussions come up there are lengthy postings of supporting evidence for those who should make the top of the list, and rarely if ever is Malak mentioned in such company as there are few showings that suggest elevating him to that level.

^As to the above, I'm not saying that Malak is horrid, but weak writing or no, I'm still not seeing presentation of hardline ability that would allow him to overcome a peak Bane.

Even by the end of PoD he was a top duelist, and by DoE his speed, agility, and Force adaptation are borderline ridiculous. There need to be some pretty strong showings by Malak that specifically suggest he could overcome Bane. I hadn't seen anything of Gethzarion until recently, but those who argued for her overcoming Marek cited enough evidence that it's reasonable to say that she may have been able to defeat him should they go head-to-head.

I don't need glorious presentation of ability, but I would like specifics as to what skills Malak has that would allow him to take the day, not just that his duel with Revan was vicious.
As per Drew, Revan was skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat but employed unpredictable combat style.

The manner in which Revan outgunned an Imperial Guard individual should teach you something.

Read about Imperial Guard here:

http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/the-imperial-guard/1134/

Not just this but Revan effortlessely handled several Mandalorians with his martial skills in Rekkiad. Prior to this, Revan have fought through lot of Sith forces on Star Forge before he got the chance to confront Darth Malak himself. And prior to this, Revan have fought and killed lot of Mandalorians.

So I don't understand that why "descriptions" are more important then clues offered by canonical information.

Giving such kind of foe a formidable challenge is not possible without considerable skill.

Yes, Bane with orbalisks may have a good chance against Malak. Without them, he can loose. Keep in mind that Darth Malak also could use powers such as Force Drain to replenish his Force reserves in a long fight. In addition Darth Malak have demonstrated considerable skill with dark powers such as Force Choke and Force Stasis and even once trapped Revan in a whirlwind style concentration of energy.

Malak gets pwned.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As per Drew, Revan was skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat but employed unpredictable combat style.

The manner in which Revan outgunned an Imperial Guard individual should teach you something.

Read about Imperial Guard here:

http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/the-imperial-guard/1134/

Not just this but Revan effortlessely handled several Mandalorians with his martial skills in Rekkiad. Prior to this, Revan have fought through lot of Sith forces on Star Forge before he got the chance to confront Darth Malak himself. And prior to this, Revan have fought and killed lot of Mandalorians.

So I don't understand that why "descriptions" are more important then clues offered by canonical information.

Giving such kind of foe a formidable challenge is not possible without considerable skill.

Yes, Bane with orbalisks may have a good chance against Malak. Without them, he can loose. Keep in mind that Darth Malak also could use powers such as Force Drain to replenish his Force reserves in a long fight. In addition Darth Malak have demonstrated considerable skill with dark powers such as Force Choke and Force Stasis and even once trapped Revan in a whirlwind style concentration of energy.

Ah, some specifics, that I like. Still, I see nothing that shows he could overcome Bane in orbs, or deal with Bane's speed and skill with sabers. Bane's lighting and destructive Force techniques also overshadow what you mention of Malak. Force Waves that obliterate temples and disintegrate metal, lightning one million volts strong, and an aura of darkside energy that literally left no trace of those it touched don't bode well for Malak either.

I preface this with the reminder that S_W_LeGenD remains on my ignore list some time ago, so I can't speak to his arguments.

But I will tell you that I am sympathetic to the idea that Malak (and Revan) are both highly underrated. Feat-to-feat, Bane is one of a great many who waste either of them. Personally, though, I've always placed Malak just under Dooku, with Revan a little higher on the list.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Ah, some specifics, that I like.
Thanks.

Also, what do you think of Malak verus Carth scenario which I contrasted above with that of Coleman who once found himself in similar situation but ended up dead?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Still, I see nothing that shows he could overcome Bane in orbs, or deal with Bane's speed and skill with sabers.
Well Malak isn't as deeply explored in terms of skill as Bane is; therefore, the ambiquity. However, if we consider stats then Malak's lightsaber dueling stats are on par with that of Exar Kun.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Bane's lighting and destructive Force techniques also overshadow what you mention of Malak.
Malak was also proficient in the use of Force Lightning; he killed a Jedi (who reached his position aboard Star Forge) with a single burst of his lightning as an example.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Force Waves that obliterate temples and disintegrate metal,
While impressive, they wouldn't do much to a Force-wielder. This argument have already been addressed.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
lightning one million volts strong,
Yes, Bane have always been good with FL. If Bane somehow gets past through Malak's defenses, then he has good chance of hurting him or defeating him with his FL.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
and an aura of darkside energy that literally left no trace of those it touched don't bode well for Malak either.
And who were the opponents in this case?

Now keep in mind that if Malak could put Revan in stasis and/or trap him in a whirlwind of energy, he is in a good position to do the same with Bane and take advantage.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But I will tell you that I am sympathetic to the idea that Malak (and Revan) are both highly underrated.
This is positive thinking.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Feat-to-feat, Bane is one of a great many who waste either of them.
If critically analyzed, I seriously doubt this.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Personally, though, I've always placed Malak just under Dooku, with Revan a little higher on the list.
Well, Revan utterly destroyed a Sith Lord more formidable then Dooku (Star Wars The Old Republic Revan) and also nearly assassinated Vitiate (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia); I don't think that Dooku holds a candle to Revan in raw power and/or command of the Force. And Malak gave Revan hell of a challenge (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic; Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia; Article dated May 18 from Drew Karpyshyn). Evidently, both Malak and Revan (at their prime) are significantly above Dooku.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I preface this with the reminder that S_W_LeGenD remains on my ignore list some time ago, so I can't speak to his arguments.

But I will tell you that I am sympathetic to the idea that Malak (and Revan) are both highly underrated. Feat-to-feat, Bane is one of a great many who waste either of them. Personally, though, I've always placed Malak just under Dooku, with Revan a little higher on the list.

I will give that credence. I don't think Revan or Malak are to be cast aside as though they are nothing, but I also agree that Malak has shown nothing that demonstrates him capable of overcoming Bane, whether in sabers, Force alone, or all out.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I will give that credence. I don't think Revan or Malak are to be cast aside as though they are nothing, but I also agree that Malak has shown nothing that demonstrates him capable of overcoming Bane, whether in sabers, Force alone, or all out.
If this is the case then how come Worror (who isn't as renowned as Malak) managed to put Bane with orbalisks out of commission?

After all, Bane isn't the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that some make him out to be.

JCW Malak dominated Revan with his Force powers on two occasions at least and utterly dominated other Jedi in combat who challenged him; this is impressive record. Most importantly, this guy packed enough strength to run a whole Sith Empire efficiently.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I will give that credence. I don't think Revan or Malak are to be cast aside as though they are nothing, but I also agree that Malak has shown nothing that demonstrates him capable of overcoming Bane, whether in sabers, Force alone, or all out.

For the record, I agree that there's no evidence to suggest Malak could take Bane either.

*sigh* I was really hoping the Revan novel would have covered at least the end of KOTOR I so we could get some feats for Malak and Bastilla...but nope.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this is the case then how come Worror (who isn't as renowned as Malak) managed to put Bane with orbalisks out of commission?

After all, Bane isn't the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that some make him out to be.


Worror reflected Bane's own million volts of lighting back on him when he wasn't expecting it. Don't act like Worror pulled off some low-level attack that proved too much for Bane, therefore undermining his potential against other Force users.


Malak dies, my friend. Malak dies.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
For the record, I agree that there's no evidence to suggest Malak could take Bane either.
Evidence exists; his performance in JCW is impressive. Stats wise, he is on par with the elites of his era.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Worror reflected Bane's own million volts of lighting back on him when he wasn't expecting it. Don't act like Worror pulled off some low-level attack that proved too much for Bane, therefore undermining his potential against other Force users.
First;

Master Worror, however, was a healer by training, and his power lay in that direction. (Star Wars Darth Bane Rule of Two)

The specialities of this Jedi lay elsewhere and not in combat and use of offensive Force powers.

And this is what happened during the confrontation:

In the corner the Ithorian broke his meditative trance, sensing that his companions had fallen. But before he could act Bane leapt through the air and landed in front of him, slashing all four of his throats simultaneously.

The Ithorian crumpled to the ground, and Bane turned to finish off the onehanded Jedi. Zannah felt the gathering dark side power of her Master, but in the instant before he unleashed the storm of deadly purple lightning, the Ithorian reached up from the floor and clutched him by his ankle. A shimmering blue globe surrounded them both as the mortally wounded Jedi released his own power in his final, dying act.

Instead of arcing across the room to destroy the one-armed Jedi, the lightning that flew from Bane's fingers reflected off the inside of the shimmering blue globe encasing him. The bolts ricocheted around wildly inside the globe, creating a storm of energy so intense that Zannah had to shield her eyes and look away. She heard Bane's scream rising above the sharp crackle of electricity, and when she looked back she saw the globe vanish and her Master fall to the ground in a charred and smoking heap. (Star Wars Darth Bane Rule of Two)

You see that a guy like Worror, who have some reasonable understanding of the Force, turned the tide of the battle with his command of the Force.

And so why not Malak who have contended with Revan?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Malak dies, my friend. Malak dies.
Of-course, Malak can die in this fight. But same is true for Bane; Malak's potential to overwhelm his opponent with his Force powers is being underestimated and also his dueling abilities. Go through my posts and try to comprehend what I stated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You see that a guy like Worror, who have some reasonable understanding of the Force, turned the tide of the battle with his command of the Force.

And so why not Malak who have contended with Revan?

Because Peak Bane, that is, DoE Bane, at his best - is better than the RoT Bane that Worror fought.

It would be erroneous to assume that the two are the same; they are not.

Also, as much as I respect Revan for what he managed to accomplish, and as much as I do see Malak as a powerful Sith Lord that is very likely on par with Darth Vader - I don't see him defeating Peak Bane, who is somewhat more powerful than RotS Sidious.

Malak would put up a good fight - but he would ultimately be crushed by Bane.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Because Peak Bane, that is, DoE Bane, at his best - is better than the RoT Bane that Worror fought.

It would be erroneous to assume that the two are the same; they are not.

Also, as much as I respect Revan for what he managed to accomplish, and as much as I do see Malak as a powerful Sith Lord that is very likely on par with Darth Vader - I don't see him defeating Peak Bane, who is somewhat more powerful than RotS Sidious.

Malak would put up a good fight - but he would ultimately be crushed by Bane.
Nicely put but I still see some issues;

1. Didn't the orbalisks enhanced Bane's strength in the Force?

2. By peak Bane, you assume DoE incarnation?

I was under the impression that RoT Bane with orbalisks is his peak condition, strength wise; correct me if I am wrong here.

While I do see Bane with orbalisks capable of taking on Malak but I believe that Malak have demonstrated enough strength to have a chance against any incarnation of Bane.

I do admit that Bane with orbalisks might be too difficult to handle with a lightsaber at least but JCW Malak have some impressive stats (if they are considered in absence of written material) and he is effective with his Force powers. A mistake from either opponent may swing the fight either way.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nicely put but I still see some issues;

1. Didn't the orbalisks enhanced Bane's strength in the Force?

Doesn't put him near his later incarnation. So irrelevant.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

2. By peak Bane, you mean DoE incarnation?

Duh.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I was under the impression that RoT Bane with orbalisks is his peak condition, strength wise; correct me if I am wrong here.

You mean physically, or power-wise?

Physically, it's irrelevant, because no one gives a damn about that here; they're talking about Bane's strength in the Force/speed, etc - which is Peak in DoE - not RoT, so you should forget about that.

Power-wise, overall, it's DoE, so you are corrected; it's Bane in DoE that is Peak-Bane - though, given the fact that that book is the conclusion in his story and logically the point where he would get highest in power, I would assume anyone with half a brain, could figure this out unaided. I see I was wrong.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

While I do see Bane with orbalisks capable of taking on Malak but I believe that Malak have demonstrated enough strength to have a chance against any incarnation of Bane.

Forget the Orbalisks - Bane doesn't need them - he's fast enough in DoE to take Malak out with speed, anyway.

Physical strength is almost a non-factor here, because Malak hasn't shown speed-feats to put him anywhere near being able to overwhelm Bane - but Bane has shown calculated feats that put him around the speed of Mace Windu and Sidious.

(Sword-swings per second compared to Mace/Sidious, etc - Rain Feat, speed calculated from the movement needed for that, etc, etc, etc.)

Any of this difficult, or are you getting it?

If you need further explanation or you're confused, let me know.

If you're smart enough, you won't challenge any of it.

Otherwise, you will; and I'll explain further.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I do admit that Bane with orbalisks might be too difficult to handle with a lightsaber at least but JCW Malak have some impressive stats (if they are considered in absence of written material) and he is effective with his Force powers. A mistake from either opponent may swing the fight either way.

Bane doesn't need Orbalisks later on, when he's visually fast enough to be compared with Mace and Sidious.

People probably need to let the Orbalisk thing go; there's no point to it.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Doesn't put him near his later incarnation. So irrelevant.
Elaborate please.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Duh.
This is what many think.

Originally posted by Rookwood
You mean physically, or power-wise?
Power wise, obviously.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Physically, it's irrelevant, because no one gives a damn about that here; they're talking about Bane's strength in the Force/speed, etc - which is Peak in DoE - not RoT, so you should forget about that.
I am also talking about strength in the Force.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Power-wise, overall, it's DoE, so you are corrected; it's Bane in DoE that is Peak-Bane - though, given the fact that that book is the conclusion in his story and logically the point where he would get highest in power, I would assume anyone with half a brain, could figure this out unaided. I see I was wrong.
Is this an attempt to insult my intelligence?

Individuals grow and change with passage of time. Performance in combat depends upon various factors and also circumstances. Sometimes individuals get power boost through external means and sometimes they fight on their own and these differences may have an impact on their performances in combat situations.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Forget the Orbalisks - Bane doesn't need them - he's fast enough in DoE to take Malak out with speed, anyway.

Physical strength is almost a non-factor here, because Malak hasn't shown speed-feats to put him anywhere near being able to overwhelm Bane - but Bane has shown calculated feats that put him around the speed of Mace Windu and Sidious.

(Sword-swings per second compared to Mace/Sidious, etc - Rain Feat, speed calculated from the movement needed for that, etc, etc, etc.)

Any of this difficult, or are you getting it?
Issue is not with Bane but issue is with assumption that Malak is supposed to be slower due to lack of information. Malak haven't been explored much in this context and this complicates the situation for us in this debate. Malak may or may not be slower; we just don't know the right answer.

On the basis of what I have revealed in this thread, it is apparent that Malak is considerably better then the likes of Coleman Trebor who presumably represent the majority. Even Coleman Trebor was a member of PT Council; so logically he should be better then majority.

Also, any argument solely focused on speed is going to fail and mislead; we have seen (non) Force-wielders giving challenge to Force-wielders in the mythos. Yes, rain feat of Bane demonstrates that his parrying in lightsaber combat can be nearly impossible to overcome. Malak may need to find an opening through his Force powers due to this reason.

Originally posted by Rookwood
If you need further explanation or you're confused, let me know.

If you're smart enough, you won't challenge any of it.

Otherwise, you will; and I'll explain further.
I debate for knowledge purposes.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Bane doesn't need Orbalisks later on, when he's visually fast enough to be compared with Mace and Sidious.

People probably need to let the Orbalisk thing go; there's no point to it.
His martial abilities were certainly exceptional.

However, Malak's martial abilities are underrated IMO. Drew envisioned him as being formidable in martial context and this is reflected through his (JCW) stats in Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.

With Malak, we are dealing with possibilities. With Bane, we have good assessment of his skills. I believe that Malak is formidable enough to give Bane a challenge in martial aspects of combat (if not his equal) but capable of matching Bane with his Force powers (this is one method through which Malak can sway the outcome of the duel in his favor).

I am not debating Bane's chances but I do believe in Malak's chances in this hypothetical conflict.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Elaborate please.

If I need to elaborate - you need to go back and re-learn all of Star Wars, again.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This is what many think.

Yeah - because it's right herp-derp.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Power wise, obviously.

Power-wise?

I'd say with the Star Forge, Malak is probably close to Yoda in total power.

Without, then he's considerably below Bane.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am also talking about strength in the Force.

Yeah, that would be DoE Bane.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Is this an attempt to insult my intelligence?

Individuals grow and change with passage of time. Performance in combat depends upon various factors and also circumstances. Sometimes individuals get power boost through external means and sometimes they fight on their own and these differences may have an impact on their performances in combat situations.

- I'd say your insulting your own intelligence.

Yes, power-progression typically means that at the end of the journey, the hero would be most powerful, etc, etc and a person with a functioning, logical brain, should be able to readily understand that DoE Bane is Peak-Bane.

So are you insulting your own intelligence? Very likely.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Issue is not with Bane but issue is with assumption that Malak is supposed to be slower due to lack of information. Malak haven't been explored much in this context and this complicates the situation for us in this debate. Malak may or may not be slower; we just don't know the right answer.

On the basis of what I have revealed in this thread, it is apparent that Malak is considerably better then the likes of Coleman Trebor who presumably represent the majority. Even Coleman Trebor was a member of PT Council; so logically he should be better then majority.

Also, any argument solely focused on speed is going to fail and mislead; we have seen (non) Force-wielders giving challenge to Force-wielders in the mythos. Yes, rain feat of Bane demonstrates that his parrying in lightsaber combat can be nearly impossible to overcome. Malak may need to find an opening through his Force powers due to this reason.

You want to know how fast Malak is?

Take Revan's speed from the novel - and then subtract just a bit.

That's how fast he is - and he's below Bane.

And no, Malak doesn't have what it takes through the Force to dance with Bane - he'd get crushed.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I debate for knowledge purposes.

A Debator only uses his skills for knowledge and defense, per Master Nephthys.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

His martial abilities were certainly exceptional.

However, Malak's martial abilities are underrated IMO. Drew envisioned him as being formidable in martial context and this is reflected through his (JCW) stats in Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.

With Malak, we are dealing with possibilities. With Bane, we have good assessment of his skills. I believe that Malak is formidable enough to give Bane a challenge in martial aspects of combat (if not his equal) but capable of matching Bane with his Force powers (this is one method through which Malak can sway the outcome of the duel in his favor).

I am not debating Bane's chances but I do believe in Malak's chances in this hypothetical conflict.

- Yes, Malak is formidable.

I'm one of the few that think he is very underrated.

But Malak can't match Bane in speed or with the Force.

Bane has shown that he's just that far over both Malak and even Revan. (And yeah, I'm a big fan of Revan, too)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have requested you to elaborate that why do you think that DoE Bane is superior to RoT Bane with orbalisks.

How is he not?

DoE Bane could beat RoT Bane with speed - or simply juice him with some Lightning, which thanks to the orbalisks, would induce a poison that would kill him.

Yeah, he doesn't need Orbalisks, and Bane is much faster/skilled/more powerful later, anyway. So duh?

Duh?

How did you need me to elaborate on that? How could you not figure that out for yourself?

Did you forget about that stuff? Have you not read excerpts from those books?

What?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And for your kind information, I don't need to re-learn Star Wars; I have a talent for predicting things (of logically assessing) with high accuracy. Time and again, many of my-what once used to be claims-have been validated later on. Therefore, don't underestimate me.

From what I hear from the others, it's the opposite actually.

I understand that you're very illogical, which is why you willfully ignore things and make up crap time and time again.

So while I don't underestimate TheTempest - I do underestimate you Legend - because you're a crappy Debator, unfortunately.

You might need to re-learn Star Wars again.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You didn't get my point perhaps; many people assume that RoT Bane is his peak incarnation.

Nobody assumes that, what are you talking about?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I agree with this.

This thread considers peak Malak; Star Forge Malak perhaps?

The setting is not Star Forge though.

Bane would still beat Star Forge-enhanced Malak as well.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

His performance aboard Leviathan is nothing short of impressive. He handled the trio of Revan, Carth and Bastilla simultaneously and proved that he is an ELITE combatant. Revan may not have beeen in his prime condition during this encounter but he still would have been a formidable threat in this encounter.

Bane could stick amnesic-Revan, Bastilla and Carth in his ass.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Interesting; now answer my question above.

Yeah, DoE Bane could kill those three without breaking a sweat.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I understand the power-progression thing; however, what about circumstances?
Bane got artifical power boost with orbalisks during RoT as an example. Without orbalisks, RoT Bane's command of the Force may have been lower then that of DoE Bane's. However, with orbalisks?
In an another example; when Revan confronted the Imperial Strike Team aboard The Foundary, he wasn't in his prime condition due to a very very long period of torture he endured previously.
I assume that you will get my drift here.
Also, I am not interested in exchanges of insults and such. Please refrain from doing so.

With or without Orbalisks, RoT Bane's strength with the Force would still be lower than his DoE incarnation.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan's reaction-rate is such that he can perform major moves with speed of thought or better.

- Yeah, so can every Jedi or Sith.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This is peak Malak, bro.

He'd still get crushed. Even with the Star Forge.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I know.

Good, always remember the teachings of Master Nephthys.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Far over Revan? Is this the reason why you underestimate Malak in comparison to Bane? Hmm!

Doy?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Well, I shall remind you that Revan have cut a swath through a Sith army; if Bane have demonstrated comparable performance then let me know. As far as I know, Caedus and Luke have.

Done what? Killed a lot of people?

Yeah, Bane has done that. And he would rape Revan.

I like both characters and I think Revan is close to Yoda in power, and maybe even fencing-ability - but I know Bane is better and would rape him.

What I see in your response above is epic display of blind fanboyism with little quantification.

I am not interested in your likings and neither personal likings have any bearing upon my judgements of characters in these kinds of debates.

Statements like Bane will rape others is not going to convince me. I am not interested in your opinion. I am interested in logical and cogent assessment of things at hand.

Once again, Bane is not the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that fans make him out to be; he got his @ss kicked by Zannah regardless of his talents (Yes, Zannah used Sith Sorcery but this is part of her talents); he didn't won the fight with aid of orbalisks either; and his victory over Kas'im is setting oriented (Yes, Bane's raw power did change the outcome in his favour but had Kas'im and him fought in a different setting where none had advantage over other in any context, result could be different); he apparently have realistic vulnerabilities that can be exploited by other powerful opponents.

In contrast Revan have superior showings in combat; his performance aboard Star Forge is one of the greatest display of power and skill in the mythos; his performance against Nyriss (a master of Sith Sorcery as well) reveals what he can accomplish with his raw power; and he nearly assassinated arguably the history's most powerful dark side master (whose command of Sith Sorcery is unparalleled). Sorry kid! Revan is Bane's superior in power and skill. Evidence and logical assessment points towards this conclusion. On the basis of this observation, it is not unreasonable to assume that peak Darth Malak will be a match for peak Darth Bane.

You may cling to fanciful interpretations of feats but I will stick with evidence and logical assessment. Thank you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am interested in logical and cogent assessment of things at hand.

That's new.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Once again, Bane is not the unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that fans make him out to be; he got his @ss kicked by Zannah regardless of his talents (Yes, Zannah used Sith Sorcery but this is part of her talents); he didn't won the fight with aid of orbalisks either; and his victory over Kas'im is setting oriented (Yes, Bane's raw power did change the outcome in his favour but had Kas'im and him fought in a different setting where none had advantage over other in any context, result could be different); he apparently have realistic vulnerabilities that can be exploited by other powerful opponents.

In contrast Revan have superior showings in combat; his performance aboard Star Forge is one of the greatest display of power and skill in the mythos; his performance against Nyriss (a master of Sith Sorcery as well) reveals what he can accomplish with his raw power; and he nearly assassinated arguably the history's most powerful dark side master (whose command of Sith Sorcery is unparalleled). Sorry kid! Revan is Bane's superior in power and skill. Evidence and logical assessment points towards this conclusion. On the basis of this observation, it is not unreasonable to assume that peak Darth Malak will be a match for peak Darth Bane.
What I see in your response above is epic display of blind fanboyism with little quantification.^

You just described your own response, perfectly.

Dafuq are you talking about S_W? Both Bane and Kas'im were amped by the planet. What dafuq kind of setting presents a locale where neither has an advantage over the other as you put it? They both have the ability to draw on the dark side of the Force last I checked. You're freaking drunk.

Acting like Zannah owned Bane is ridiculous as well. She did win, as well could be expected as he himself said that she had the potential to surpass him in every way. By all rights she should be pretty legendary by the end of her reign in terms of mastery of the Force.

I can't believe you seriously quoted Revan killing a few Mandoes with a thrown saber as part of your argument for Malak being superior to Bane. Malak may not be some punk, but even Tyrranus would give him a good run; Bane would crush him time after time after time.

Originally posted by Rookwood
That's new.
Applicable in your case.

Originally posted by Rookwood
What I see in your response above is epic display of blind fanboyism with little quantification.^

You just described your own response, perfectly.
I notice desperation and lack of reasoning from you. Useless statements from you indicate that you have lost this debate. However, blind fanboyism will prevent you from conceding defeat; blind rejection is what you will now resort to. Typical...

Mark of blind fanboys: they casually and systematically dismiss any evidence that might conflict with their worldview.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Applicable in your case.

Not yet. And you won't ever try to use logic in this argument, because you will know you have lost.

I accept your concession.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I notice desperation and lack of reasoning from you. Useless statements from you indicate that you have lost this debate. However, blind fanboyism will prevent you from conceding defeat; blind rejection is what you will now resort to. Typical...

Mark of blind fanboys: they casually and systematically dismiss any evidence that might conflict with their worldview.

You've proven yourself to be the blind one.

I essentially turned your own description back on you, to reveal how blind and fanboyish you've demonstrated yourself to be.

But instead of seeing this, because you are blind, you've tried to nudge aside the truth I've shown you, in order to ramble and play a game of attrition, that you will eventually lose.

Checkmate.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Dafuq are you talking about S_W? Both Bane and Kas'im were amped by the planet. What dafuq kind of setting presents a locale where neither has an advantage over the other as you put it? They both have the ability to draw on the dark side of the Force last I checked. You're freaking drunk.
I must warn you that I will not take personal attacks on me kindly. I am not drunk and I don't drink forbidden drinks.

Secondly, you display similar mindset as that blind fanboy Rookwood does concerning Bane. You guys cannot see the big picture here and are lost in fanciful interpretation of events concerning a character.

Bane had decent knowledge of the setting and he used this knowledge to his advantage; Kas'im became a victim of his arrogance. Yes, Kasi'm lacked the ability to prevent tons of debris to crush him beneath (he is not as competent as Malgus as an example). He relatively lacked in knowledge of the setting; cunning ways of the Sith of the past; and unwittingly played into Bane's trap. In contrast, Bane did a marvellous job in this fight; he carefully but surely took advantage of Kas'im's lack of foresight; and when he found an opening, he exploited it to gain victory. I do credit Bane for this victory but we need to keep in mind some important "ground realities" of this encounter.

Had this duel taken place in a different setting where Bane wouldn't have had chance to crush Kas'im beneath tons of rubble; outcome may not have been in the favour of Bane. This is my intended point. I can see the big picture here but it requires impartial judgement. Let us see, if you are capable of impartial judgement.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Acting like Zannah owned Bane is ridiculous as well. She did win, as well could be expected as he himself said that she had the potential to surpass him in every way. By all rights she should be pretty legendary by the end of her reign in terms of mastery of the Force.
I know that it was not ownage; Zannah obviously couldn't match Bane in the aspects where he was competent but she was not. She outgunned Bane through her talents in which she excelled. But nonetheless, she handled Bane's martial prowess and put him out of commission.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I can't believe you seriously quoted Revan killing a few Mandoes with a thrown saber as part of your argument for Malak being superior to Bane. Malak may not be some punk, but even Tyrranus would give him a good run; Bane would crush him time after time after time.
You make it sound like as if Mandalorians are chump or suck in combat? My intention was to quantify speed feats of Revan. By doing so, we can form a logical assessment of where Malak stands in the context of quantification. Perhaps you need to pay proper attention to the provided information and the intent behind it.

Killing a couple of Mandalorians is not the point here; the speed with which Revan kills them via Saber Throw technique is the important highlight of the cited information. Since Rookwood was busy glorifying the speed feats of Bane; I had to remind him that he should not underestimate Revan without basis, which he continues to do unfortunately.

Obviously, Revan's combat in Rekkiad is just a minor glimpse of what he had been through the Mandalorian Wars and other battles.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Not yet. And you won't ever try to use logic in this argument, because you will know you have lost.

I accept your concession.
If self-delusion makes you happy; you can bask in it.

Originally posted by Rookwood
You've proven yourself to be the blind one.

I essentially turned your own description back on you, to reveal how blind and fanboyish you've demonstrated yourself to be.

But instead of seeing this, because you are blind, you've tried to nudge aside the truth I've shown you, in order to ramble and play a game of attrition, that you will eventually lose.

Checkmate.
Truth?

You have presented an opinion of yours in which Bane rapes any one else. This is your worldview, genius. It has no bearing on what the associated author thinks about this kind of subject and nor it reflects positively on canonical accomplishments of Bane.

You have no logical argument but only fanciful interpretations of feats to rely upon; but this isn't enough. Difference is that I have understood your point of view and have sympathized with it but you haven't reciprocated in similar manner and have casually and systematically dismissed any evidence that conflicted with your worldview. You are as blind as one can get about these subjects.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If self-delusion makes me happy; I can bask in it.

Truth? I know nothing of the truth.

I have presented an opinion of mine in which Revan rapes any one else. This is my worldview, genius. It has no bearing on what the associated author thinks about this kind of subject and nor it reflects positively on canonical accomplishments of Revan.

I have no logical argument but only fanciful interpretations of feats to rely upon; but this isn't enough. Difference is that you have understood my point of view and have sympathized with it but I haven't reciprocated in similar manner and have casually and systematically dismissed any evidence that conflicted with my worldview. I, S_W_LeGenD, are as blind as one can get about these subjects.

I realize that I have lost, and concede.


Your concession is accepted.

If you had continued, you would have fared no better than, say, Revan against Sidious..

It's good you learned your lesson.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


You make it sound like as if Mandalorians are chump or suck in combat? My intention was to quantify speed feats of Revan. By doing so, we can form a logical assessment of where Malak stands in the context of quantification. Perhaps you need to pay proper attention to the provided information and the intent behind it.

Killing a couple of Mandalorians is not the point here; the speed with which Revan kills them via Saber Throw technique is the important highlight of the cited information. Since Rookwood was busy glorifying the speed feats of Bane; I had to remind him that he should not underestimate Revan without basis, which he continues to do unfortunately.

Obviously, Revan's combat in Rekkiad is just a minor glimpse of what he had been through the Mandalorian Wars and other battles.
I'm going to refrain from posting the entirety of your argument before this point because it's so weak that it doesn't even need to be acknowledged further.

As to the Mados, throwing a saber at a couple of surprised guards puts neither Revan nor by association Malak on par with Bane in terms of speed. Go rest your mind and come back when you're going to present a coherent argument as to your point. When this thread first started you at least gave examples that supported why you believed Malak had a chance; now you're just throwing out nonsense.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I'm going to refrain from posting the entirety of your argument before this point because it's so weak that it doesn't even need to be acknowledged further.

As to the Mados, throwing a saber at a couple of surprised guards puts neither Revan nor by association Malak on par with Bane in terms of speed. Go rest your mind and come back when you're going to present a coherent argument as to your point. When this thread first started you at least gave examples that supported why you believed Malak had a chance; now you're just throwing out nonsense.
Clearly you have shown total lack of understanding of my intentions and the message which I have wanted to convey.

Revan have demonstrated the speed to dodge overwhelming blaster fire, grenades and even an electostaff strike physically and his reaction-rate is so good that he could perform major actions in a fraction of a second. His precognitive abilities are also extraordinary; he cut down an Imperial Guard individual in few steps. His performance aboard the Star Forge is remarkable.

The arguments which I have presented are cogent and have a purpose; you need a clear mind to understand what I am trying to convey here.

Also, learn from my response above to Rookwood.

Another important thing which I want to highlight is the fact that Bane was incompetent againt a foe who had decent command of Sith Sorcery; he did not demonstrated the ability to use the the Force to absorb and deflect powers composed of pure dark side energies. He attempted to fight fire with fire instead:

The tendrils were massing for another assault, moving faster as Zannah fed them with a steady stream of power. Bane unleashed violet lightning from his fingers, but when the bolts struck the sinewy black forms they were absorbed with no apparent effect. They were made of pure dark side energy, and there was no way he could harm them. (Darth Bane Dynasty of Evil)

This is where proficiency in Tutaminis comes in to play: Force abilities related to energy absorption. This ability often translates to difference between life and death.

Revan have demonstrated extreme proficiency in this aspect; he could use his raw power in the Force to absorb and even deflect powers composed of pure dark side energies back at their source. In this manner, he utterly decimated a foe who also happened to be a master of Sith Sorcery. It took the Sith Order's arguably most powerful dark side master to push Revan to his limits.

Bane holds no candle to Revan in competency with the Force. These revelations also explain that how Revan was able to blunt the effectiveness of Malak's dark side powers during the fight aboard Star Forge. Mind you, Darth Malak was also a practitioner of Sith Sorcery.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, learn from my response above to Rookwood, which is weak and unfounded.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is no concession on my end; I just lost interest in debating this subject with you on the basis of my inadequate responses to you:
As far as Bane is concerned, he outclasses Revan.

S_W_LeGenD, you are weak as a Debator, and do not even have the capacity to save Revan from Sidious in an debate. You *know* Revan would fall to Sidious like a weak puppy to a red-tailed Hawk. Revan has lost here.

I am unfazed by your claims. Your defeat in this debate at my hands have lowballed you to trolling levels. I understand your pain.

B/W Don't misquote my statements.

Indeed, don't do that, Rookwood.

DrcnbGdEwFc

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am unfazed by defeat in this debate
B/W Don't misquote my statements.

Hey, it's just your way of telling me that you have lost, and that you concede to me.

In which case, I accept your concession.