Maul bro's run a gauntlet

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Jedi Mom
The Maul bro's (CW Maul & Savage) run a gauntlet.

Takes place in the Geonosian arena.

Two scenarios,

a) full rest
b) 30min rest

Here we go:

1) AOTC Kenobi & AOTC Anakin Skywalker
2) ROTS Kenobi
3) Kit Fisto, Shaak Ti & Eeth Koth
4) General Grievous & Asajj Ventress
5) ROTJ Vader
6) ROTS Dooku & Qui-Gon Jinn.

Pwned
2 is going to give them trouble.....


He is already giving them each a hard time, and he gets quite a bit better, what with his 20 strikes per second feat.

Jedi Mom
Originally posted by Pwned
2 is going to give them trouble.....


He is already giving them each a hard time, and he gets quite a bit better, what with his 20 strikes per second feat.

though when he had Ventress at his side, they conceded defeat.

hmm... messed

Pwned
ROTS Kenobi. Not CW Kenobi.


ROTS Kenobi is quite a bit more impressive.

Jedi Mom
Originally posted by Pwned
ROTS Kenobi. Not CW Kenobi.


ROTS Kenobi is quite a bit more impressive.

your right.

Mizukage Yoda
Is ROTS Kenobi really stronger than AOTC Kenobi and Skywalker?

DARTH POWER
For that matter is ROTS Obi-Wan substantially better than current CW Obi-Wan who is basically Uber in Sabers??

And since the OP hasn't given ROTS Obi-Wan 2 Sabers to fight them both off, I really don't see him giving them too much trouble at all.

And geez look at the fighting arena people! Maul and Opress together would likely be TK'ing Obi-Wan all over the place!

Tzeentch._
They lose at 2.

DARTH POWER
There's no way Kenobi alone with his One Lightsaber is defeating them. Especially not in an open arena like this.

I doubt he'd even give them much trouble.

Tzeentch._
Kenobi can handle twenty strikes a second with one lightsaber and effortlessly deflect the combined blaster fire of over several dozen droids by himself with one lightsaber.

No. Don't do this.

DARTH POWER
I know you don't like Maul or his brother. But your taking your hate a bit too far here.

Ok let's not do this. I've already given my reasons anyway. And you've given yours.

Pwned
No, he isn't really exaggerating. The maul brothers just don't have the ability to beat him in sabers, at all. Keep in mind, anything that applies to CW Kenobi also applies to ROTC Kenobi. Personally, I think he will sh*t stomp them in sabers.

TK is a possibility, though he has probably advanced far enough that he could defend against some attacks. (Note the, "some" area. And keep in mind Dooku is much, MUCH better with the Force than either Savage or Maul)

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Pwned
No, he isn't really exaggerating. The maul brothers just don't have the ability to beat him in sabers, at all.

Yes he is greatly exaggerating, as are you.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest Obi-Wan could have fought them both off with a Single Saber. Nothing. If he could, Adi wouldn't have died.



Originally posted by Pwned
Keep in mind, anything that applies to CW Kenobi also applies to ROTC Kenobi. Personally, I think he will sh*t stomp them in sabers.

Your dreaming. He never stomped Maul in Sabers either of the times he fought him. Not even in the One on One!

Originally posted by Pwned
TK is a possibility, though he has probably advanced far enough that he could defend against some attacks.

Again your dreaming. ROTS Obi-Wan has done nothing to show he can match Maul in the Force.

Originally posted by Pwned
And keep in mind Dooku is much, MUCH better with the Force than either Savage or Maul)

And yet Dooku never defeated Opress with a flick of the wrist. That shows Obi-Wan wasn't that good at all in the Force by ROTS.

Maul would most probably defeat him in a one on one via Force TK. Maul and Opress together in an open area would be throwing Obi-Wan all over the place.

Arhael
No way RotS Kenobi will be able to handle both of them.

Ataru without Jarkai would ensure quick death. Advantage of Jarkai is that it is possible to block attacks from both sides simultaniously, otherwise Kenobi would need to dodge much more instead. Even with two sabers he had to dodge attacks of brothers hell lot of times, so no way he would be able to keep up with single saber.

He would still be able to fend off both of them with Soresu as he demonstrated that right after Adi's death. However, it woudn't give him any chance to quickly kill either of them. He could tire up either of them in prolonged fight one on one, but no way he would be able to outlast both of them.

Finally fighting two opponents would take Kenobi's entire focus, thus his Force guard woild be opened allowing Maul to TK him like in CW.

Pwned
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes he is greatly exaggerating, as are you.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest Obi-Wan could have fought them both off with a Single Saber. Nothing. If he could, Adi wouldn't have died.





Your dreaming. He never stomped Maul in Sabers either of the times he fought him. Not even in the One on One!



Again your dreaming. ROTS Obi-Wan has done nothing to show he can match Maul in the Force.



And yet Dooku never defeated Opress with a flick of the wrist. That shows Obi-Wan wasn't that good at all in the Force by ROTS.

Maul would most probably defeat him in a one on one via Force TK. Maul and Opress together in an open area would be throwing Obi-Wan all over the place. Nah, your the one that is actually exaggerating.

A- I never said he had already stomped Maul in sabers, I said I am fairly certain he would. Or can Maul strike 20 times per second?

This Kenobi is a bit more advanced in his abilities the the CW one.

ROTS: Kenobi equaled a force push from Anakin. Equaled. I would personally say that Anakin is more powerful than Maul, wouldn't you?

Arhael
Power is irrelevant in this matter.
Kenobi excels at utilyzing his power into lightsaber combat but he lacks skill in TK. He simply fails to put up Force defense in time and it is his weakness. Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and Ventress, yet, both of them managed to Force choke him because like Kenobi he learned to utilize power into combat but not in TK.
Even Luke in his prime wasn't always in time to put up Force defense, like when Unu'Thul gave him first Force blast.

If Kenobi's Force defenses got better by RotS, Dooku wouldn't Force handle him. Personally I don't think that Dooku is more powerful than Kenobi. But it is part of Dooku's superior Force mastery that he can catch opponent off guard with a Force attack.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Pwned
Nah, your the one that is actually exaggerating.

By all means point out the part I've exaggerated.

Originally posted by Pwned
A- I never said he had already stomped Maul in sabers, I said I am fairly certain he would. Or can Maul strike 20 times per second?

This argument gets old and is frankly stupid.

Can Anakin strike 20 times per second? Can Dooku? Can Mace?

Does Obi-Wan beat them all if they don't?!

Originally posted by Pwned
This Kenobi is a bit more advanced in his abilities the the CW one.

Proof? His feat against Maul and Opress was probably his best Saber feat we have ever seen. Kenobi's not Skywalker. No where is it stated or confirmed that he was growing more powerful every day during the CW right until the end.

Originally posted by Pwned
ROTS: Kenobi equaled a force push from Anakin. Equaled. I would personally say that Anakin is more powerful than Maul, wouldn't you?

Means nothing. Skywalker's Force TK wasn't very masterful and his showings were very inconsistent.

Skywalker was more powerful than Count Dooku. Doesn't mean Obi-Wan's going to match/surpass Dooku in a force contest.

Pwned
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
By all means point out the part I've exaggerated.



This argument gets old and is frankly stupid.

Can Anakin strike 20 times per second? Can Dooku? Can Mace?

Does Obi-Wan beat them all if they don't?!



Proof? His feat against Maul and Opress was probably his best Saber feat we have ever seen. Kenobi's not Skywalker. No where is it stated or confirmed that he was growing more powerful every day during the CW right until the end.



Means nothing. Skywalker's Force TK wasn't very masterful and his showings were very inconsistent.

Skywalker was more powerful than Count Dooku. Doesn't mean Obi-Wan's going to match/surpass Dooku in a force contest. Your twisting my words.

For one: You are ignoring the fact that Kenobi is probably the best defensive fighter in the galaxy at this point. Sure, Dooku could get through his defenses, but thats what Makashi does.

So fighting in a war every day for years isn't going to make him better? Yeah, whatever. Come back when you have something believable.

Skywalker beat Dooku in a fit of rage. You know better than this, why are you even trying to go there?
Mastery doesn't matter when you are sending a wave of pure power at somebody. Kenobi showed that he could match Anakin there.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Pwned
Your twisting my words.

Nope.

Originally posted by Pwned
For one: You are ignoring the fact that Kenobi is probably the best defensive fighter in the galaxy at this point.


I'm not ignoring anything. But giving random facts like that proves nothing. H

Sure, Dooku could get through his defenses, but thats what Makashi does.

So fighting in a war every day for years isn't going to make him better? Yeah, whatever. Come back when you have something believable.

Skywalker beat Dooku in a fit of rage. You know better than this, why are you even trying to go there?
Mastery doesn't matter when you are sending a wave of pure power at somebody. Kenobi showed that he could match Anakin there.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Pwned
Your twisting my words.

Nope.

Originally posted by Pwned
For one: You are ignoring the fact that Kenobi is probably the best defensive fighter in the galaxy at this point.


I'm not ignoring anything. But giving random facts like that proves nothing. He's fighting multiple opponents here both of whom are physical and force beasts.

Oh and your ignoring Maul has completely mastered juyo, multiple other forms and is extremely skilled at unarmed combat.

Originally posted by Pwned
Sure, Dooku could get through his defenses, but thats what Makashi does.

Maul also seemingly displayed a high level of makashi against Opress when he swiftly deflected his power blows away one handed.

Originally posted by Pwned
So fighting in a war every day for years isn't going to make him better? Yeah, whatever. Come back when you have something believable.

Whose twisting whose words now? The CW series is already in the latter half of the CW. There's nothing to suggest Obi-Wan is to radically improve from this point on.

In fact I seriously doubt it, otherwise he would be stomping Dooku by ROTS.

Originally posted by Pwned
Skywalker beat Dooku in a fit of rage. You know better than this, why are you even trying to go there?

He used his anger to defeat Dooku. He also used his anger to fight Obi-Wan and stalemate him in a force push. What's your point?

Originally posted by Pwned
Mastery doesn't matter when you are sending a wave of pure power at somebody. Kenobi showed that he could match Anakin there.

Mastery increases connection to the force which increases the power of that basic force push.

Arhael
No, that's what Dooku does, not Makashi. There is no such thing as one style above other. Wielder makes the fight, not style.
And I thought you argue in favour of Kenobi. Since AotC he improved as much as Anakin. I seriously doubt Dooku would be able to overcome his defenses without Force attacks, not after perfo


Yes, he can muster powerful Force push.

But can he anticipate a Force push? Can he predict, when opponent is going to throw one? Can he put up Force barrier before it hits him?

Both Maul and Dooku explicitly demonstrated that he can't. It's a skill he lacks. He managed to put up resistance against Anakin in time. But Anakin is not skilled in offensive Force use and in rage he was much more predictable.

Pwned
Wait a minute, you guys realize all I am saying is that he will give them trouble, correct? Not that he would win?

I don't really care enough to debate that he could win, because he can't.......



Anyways, mastering styles will give you a significant advantage. Especially if its Makashi, and you are fighting a Soresu user, as the premise of their style will be wasted (making opponents waste energy) and Makashi excels at breaching their defense.
The style makes a good part of the fight with technical forms like Makashi.

Arhael
Yes, it would be difficult fight for them.
You argued that Kenobi would be more likely to resist brother's Force attacks, so I felt need to argue against that.

Judging on Kenobi's combat feats: overwhelming brothers with Jarkai, stalemating enraged Anakin in such a prolong fight and later defeating Sharad Hett, I consider Kenobi by all accounts to be immensely powerful. However, as I said he lacks skill in Force defence.

By the way I think Kenobi can still overcome Force attacks of either of them in one on one fight as he wouldn't need to direct entire effort on lightsaber fight. He would be more likely to put up Force defense like with Anakin and probably will take advantage of surroundings. Even in fight against both brothers Maul's Force choke didn't incapacitate Kenobi. Also, Maul Force blasted Kenobi because of getting enraged. Without brother being hurt he wouldn't be able to muster such a powerful Force attack.


No, advantage of Soresu is not wasted against any style. If Dooku won't get tired, then Kenobi won't get tired either. And Dooku still can get tired. While he uses less energy, his stamina is nowhere as high as Anakin's or Kenobi's.

Sometimes I practise with wooden sword. And I assure you that swordfight is 10 times simpler than grappling and ammount of techniques is so low that it doesn't matter what style you engage.

In SW all sword techniques come from first two Forms: two-handed techniques from I and one-handed - from II. Other Forms bring nothing more than phylosophy, except Ataru that gives acrobatics.
As proof look at fight of Kenobi and Anakin. Kenobi taught Anakin all moves, the way they fought looked exactly the same, they even executed several moves in parallel perfectly mirroring each other. The only difference was that Kenobi fought defensively giving ground, while Anakin - offensively. Dooku doesn't know a single technique, Kenobi doesn't.

Anyway whatever is your opinion about styles, assuming that Dooku can penetrate defenses of Kenobi, when Maul and Opress couldn't do it combined, doesn't make sense at all.

Pwned
I am fairly certain that in some sourcebook or another it mentions that Makashi is the direct counter to Soresu, but I don't care enough to check XD


Anyways, its mostly that Soresu relies on taking advantage of your opponents aggression and tire them out. Then you kill them. However, with Makashi, the long-distance fight is in their favor, as Makashi was made for lightsaber combat. Therefore, Soresu is at a distinct disadvantage.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Pwned



Anyways, its mostly that Soresu relies on taking advantage of your opponents aggression and tire them out. Then you kill them.

Makashi can be used in a very similar way.

But Soresu uses both hands to fully parry the blow, whilst Makashi deflects and redirects powerful blows off in a different direction, and does this one handed. It also concentrates on foot work to use quick dodges and movements.

They're both very difficult forms to overpower once fully mastered.

mnat801
They have a tough time at 1, then get taken down at 2.

Pwned
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Makashi can be used in a very similar way.

But Soresu uses both hands to fully parry the blow, whilst Makashi deflects and redirects powerful blows off in a different direction, and does this one handed. It also concentrates on foot work to use quick dodges and movements.

They're both very difficult forms to overpower once fully mastered. This is true. I am of the opinion that Soresu is much better designed for deflecting a lot of strikes very rapidly, while Makashi is for fencing.

Arhael
I can give as example box.
Boxers have many different styles. Some fight defensively, some offensively. But neither style is above any other.
If we put boxer against kick boxer, then obviously second style is superior. However, kicking is a different range of skill. If kick boxer is restrained to do punches only, then he won't have any advantage over boxer. Same with swords, neither will have advantage over other as it is the same range of skill.

Back to Dooku.

What makes you think that Dooku relies on strength less than Anakin or any other characters? It says that Makashi lacks kinetic energy but it is because one-hand is not as strong as two hands. The difference is that Anakin uses strength and Force to generate bone-crushing swings, while Dooku - to push lightsaber out of the way in order to open guard of opponent. For Dooku using strength in right direction is what makes it possible to out duel opponent. No strength = no good technique to overcome defence. So, Dooku will get tired, if he tries hard to penetrate Kenobi's defence.

Look at AotC. Dooku won Kenobi by overpowering him with saber lock. He won because of direct strength contest. He opened Kenobi's guard because of superior strength.

But we both know that Kenobi became more skilled and much stronger since.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.