Superman (DCnU) vs. Superman (Pre-Flashpoint)

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Sixth_Winged
Alright this might seemed laughable back then, but then you get this...

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=4589&page=2

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=4589&page=2

Discuss..

Cogito
Impressive.

That's all I've got, for now.

Philosophía
DCnU, without a doubt. The only thing stopping me would be his lack of that high of speed showings (though he has some ridiculous ones, too)

Pre-Flashpoint, everytime he had to move the Earth or the Moon, he had help, or needed help, and sometimes even failed with that help (ie. trying to keep Earth in orbit alongside J'onn and Diana).

Now he is not only capable of bench-pressing Earth, but he does so for five days out of the sun and says "that's it?".

I mean holy f*cking shit. This is Silver Age Superman level.

-K-M-
Haha yeah that's pretty ridic

Zack Fair
Pre-Flashpoint Superman is still much faster, durable and has much more experience using his powers in creative/effective ways.

PF Supes FTW uhuh

Golgo13
Well, DCnU Superman is much stronger than all the bricks out there today. Including anyone from Marvel.

Zack Fair
And just with one feat Supes shits all over Marvel and DC biscuits

Golgo13
I wonder how powerful they will make out WW. Once she removes her bracelets.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Golgo13
Well, DCnU Superman is much stronger than all the bricks out there today. Including anyone from Marvel. says you

Golgo13
Originally posted by psycho gundam
says the comics!

thumb up

-Pr-
Guys, it's one feat. Show some perspective.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Zack Fair
And just with one feat Supes shits all over Marvel and DC biscuits Every once in a while, he needs to remind people why he's the one holding the line when everybody else can't.Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, it's one feat. Show some perspective. This too, though. thumb up

Though, seeing as how we're barely a year in and he's already done this (along with several other relative battle showings, including being the top dog in JLA), his 'average' is higher than anybody else's, too.

Golgo13
He's going to need more of those, since he'll be facing off against Superdoom (most dangerous villain in the multiverse) and He'l, who is supposed to be friggen uber.

psycho gundam

Philosophía
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you say that like he's a real guy..... I do?

psycho gundam
yeah. it sounds like you're insinuating that issue was autobiographical, written by him

the best thing about that feat is that now people will choose this version of superman over the last one. that old stuff is been gone for a year now.

Philosophía
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah. it sounds like you're insinuating that issue was autobiographical, written by him erm

-Pr-
It's okay, Gundam just really hates Superman.

Golgo13
Superman in a years time will be able to take on multiple Marvel characters at once. Don't hate, Gundam. wink

Zack Fair
Do not force Psycho to pull a Char...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Golgo13
Superman in a years time will be able to take on multiple Marvel characters at once. Don't hate, Gundam. wink you're such an unabashed dc dickrider. don't change smile

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's okay, Gundam just really hates Superman. normally i would explain that, but comics are quite boring and shitty these days.

Golgo13
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you're such an unabashed dc dickrider. don't change smile

normally i would explain that, but comics are quite boring and shitty these days.

Oh, I won't. But that won't change the fact that Superman is godly in the presence of your weak Marvel characters. smile smile

Superman is like that. thumb up

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Golgo13
Oh, I won't. But that won't change the fact that Superman is godly in the presence of your weak Marvel characters. smile smile

Superman is like that. thumb up at least you're honest with yourself now

Golgo13
Originally posted by psycho gundam
at least you're honest with yourself now

I'm always honest. wink But seriously, I always give Marvel a chance. They just always fall short. Not my fault.

Philosophía
Marvel fans should now be careful how Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel do around Superman.

We don't want them able to stomp Marvel characters too, now.

ha-som

psycho gundam
am i supposed to care? i have no stake in this

Philosophía
Yes you do. It's right up your ass, that's why you can't see it.

Golgo13

psycho gundam

Philosophía
I think Captain Marvel will be ~= Wonder Woman, below Superman physically with magic evening it out.

Astner
Shouldn't this version of Superman be used as the default version?

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
am i supposed to care? i have no stake in this

Your tears sustain me.

Astner
To be fair, he's nowhere near strong enough to life that book in Limbo.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
Your tears sustain me. well you're used to subsistence, so you'll manage somehow

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
well you're used to subsistence, so you'll manage somehow

Want to try again?

psycho gundam
you mean in lay terms?

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you mean in lay terms?

lol, I can almost feel how bitter you are through the screen.

vin

Astner
I wonder how long it will take before a new Superman versus the Hulk thread will pop up.

Golgo13
I bet psycho was hoping that DCnU Superman would be much weaker than PFlashpoint. Hell, I was, too. I was hoping DC would take a break from their massively powerful characters...At least for a while.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, I can almost feel how bitter you are through the screen.

vin i said i don't care, not sure why you strive to make it personal *shrug*

Originally posted by Golgo13
I bet psycho was hoping that DCnU Superman would be much weaker than PFlashpoint. Hell, I was, too. I was hoping DC would take a break from their massively powerful characters...At least for a while. hellspawnt wouldn't beat NE superman with a backhand like that, but we're not here to talk about that now are we

Golgo13
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i said i don't care, not sure why you strive to make it personal *shrug*

Because you like poking fun at me, I'll poke fun at you. It's only fair. doctor

Philosophía
1/4 of the replies in this thread (excluding this page) are yours, psycho.

Leave Raoul alone and gimme some of those tears.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Golgo13
Because you like poking fun at me, I'll poke fun at you. It's only fair. doctor what exactly are you poking fun at? i'd like to know flat out

all i can gather is that you guys are having an emotional moment over a feat and you're going at someone you dislike for your own reasons in some sort of quasi-role reversal type thing. is that it? awww. i hope not...

Endless Mike
Pre-Flashpoint still wins, even if this feat is legit it still just one feat and the older Supes still has better feats than that

Golgo13
Originally posted by psycho gundam
what exactly are you poking fun at? i'd like to know flat out

all i can gather is that you guys are having an emotional moment over a feat and you're going at someone you dislike for your own reasons in some sort of quasi-role reversal type thing. is that it? awww. i hope not...

I told you, Moran, I didn't want Superman to be so strong. It's going against what I wanted. I also stated a while ago that I wanted all the lantern corps to be dwindled down as well.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Pre-Flashpoint still wins, even if this feat is legit it still just one feat and the older Supes still has better feats than that

IF? It IS legit and Pre-Flashpoint doesn't have any strength feats like that.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Golgo13
I told you, Moran, I didn't want Superman to be so strong. It's going against what I wanted. I also stated a while ago that I wanted all the lantern corps to be dwindled down as well. yeah, philo, you and me can "argue" further, no more of prep-man for me.

Philosophía
Originally posted by psycho gundam
what exactly are you poking fun at? i'd like to know flat out

all i can gather is that you guys are having an emotional moment over a feat and you're going at someone you dislike for your own reasons in some sort of quasi-role reversal type thing. is that it? awww. i hope not... http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8098/55599.gif

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i said i don't care, not sure why you strive to make it personal *shrug*

hellspawnt wouldn't beat NE superman with a backhand like that, but we're not here to talk about that now are we

laughing out loud

Okay, sure, let's go with that.

psycho gundam
will you believe me if a said "no"?

Astner
Originally posted by Golgo13
IF? It IS legit and Pre-Flashpoint doesn't have any strength feats like that.
What about lifting the book with infinite pages in Limbo?

Philosophía
Originally posted by Astner
What about lifting the book with infinite pages in Limbo? Do you think Superman has infinite strength?

Golgo13
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah, philo, you and me can "argue" further, no more of prep-man for me.

What the hell are you babbling about now?

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Golgo13
IF? It IS legit and Pre-Flashpoint doesn't have any strength feats like that.

Lifting infitnity and holding or slowing infinity. Doesn't get better then this tbh. And the infinity book feat was legit imho. Though the DCnU supes should be on the same level I guess, as this wasn't his limit, bench pressing earth for 5 days without the sun... anyway, it doesn't matter who wins here both are >>>>>>>>>>> Hulk strength wise big grin.

Edit: And yes, I think Supermans has infinite strength, if he needs to and Morisson made it pretty clear with the best strength feat in comic history.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Golgo13
IF? It IS legit and Pre-Flashpoint doesn't have any strength feats like that.

Moving Mageddon which was bigger than the sun

Moving Warworld against the force of its engines with the power of Imperiex

Lifting the infinite book

Moving a solar system that was quickly growing to full size

Smashing all the planets inside the Galactic Golem

etc.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Lifting infitnity and holding or slowing infinity. Doesn't get better then this tbh. And the infinity book feat was legit imho. Though the DCnU supes should be on the same level I guess, as this wasn't his limit, bench pressing earth for 5 days without the sun... anyway, it doesn't matter who wins here both are >>>>>>>>>>> Hulk strength wise big grin. If we take the infinite book feat, then no character that has, does or will ever exist can surpass Superman in strength. I don't think anybody agrees with that - it's not even a high feat, it's a cop-out feat.

On the other hand, once we compare how pre-Flashpoint Superman performs in terms of planet/moon moving (i.e. always needing help, and sometimes even failing with that help) to this Superman (by his lonesome, casually, without sunlight for days-on-end), the picture is quite clear.

Golgo13
Superman struggled against Mageddon, right, plus he didn't do it for FIVE days straight without the sun powering him.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Moving Mageddon which was bigger than the sun
He moved its chains, not Mageddon itself. Unquantifiable, you have no way to prove it's equivalent to planet moving, nevermind casual planet moving, for days-on-end, without the main source of his power - sunlight.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Moving Warworld against the force of its engines with the power of Imperiex He was sundipped. no expression

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Lifting the infinite book Already adressed.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Smashing all the planets inside the Galactic Golem

etc. Those weren't planets, it would be generous to call them planetoids.

Batman-Prime

Golgo13
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The difference between this version and pre-Flashpoint is maturity imo. Pre-Flashpoint Superman was holding back a lot, he was quite careful with his powers and was reasonable enough to ask for help if possible. However, once it was clear that everything is at stake and he is the only chance the Universe has, OWAW or FC, he did those feats without much trouble.
Current Superman is younger and seems more ready to push his limits without considering all consequences. All in all I think both are equals and have a limitless potential. Pre-Flashpoint already proved that and current is on the best way to prove it too.

I was hoping that they would gradually build Superman's strength. This was kind of out of the blue.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Golgo13
I was hoping that they would gradually build Superman's strength. This was kind of out of the blue.

TBH, we've had a year of gradual building. That's enough for me.

Golgo13
I wanted 5 years AT LEAST.

sneer

CosmicComet
DcNU Superman is clearly 'stronger', unless we talk about the mini-black hole containing feat--but then people may argue it to be unquantifiable as well, bringing us back to square one. PF Superman never bench pressed a planet's weight however, he dragged/pushed them with the horsepower of his flight--thus they were never pure strength feats, thus DcNU Supes has the edge in this department.

PF Superman is still far faster by feats though. Best thing DCnU Supes has done so far is tag Barry, but this Barry seems slower by feats vs PF Barry (a casual attoseconder--who Superman matched in perception speed, as seen in Grounded.)

PF Superman wins until something changes on that front.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The difference between this version and pre-Flashpoint is maturity imo. Pre-Flashpoint Superman was holding back a lot, he was quite careful with his powers and was reasonable enough to ask for help if possible. However, once it was clear that everything is at stake and he is the only chance the Universe has, OWAW or FC, he did those feats without much trouble. But the 'feat' in question is him literally lifting infinite weight. That's not a feat, so much is that, taken at face value, Superman could oumuscle anybody, ever to have been created. I don't see how anybody could agree with that.

In his pre-Flashpoint incarnation, it was quite clear in repeated scenes that he couldn't move a planet by his lonesome - everytime he needed help, and even with help he sometimes failed (keeping Earth in Orbit with Diana and J'onn or stopping the stray moon in New Krypton). Even under Jeph Loeb's big event OWAW he needed a sundip and him moving a planet was treated as a big deal. Maybe he could have done it in an extreme situation, but he'd been collapsing afterwards. Casually moving Earth for days without sunlight? That is something that is far beyond pre-FP Superman has shown or even been implied as capable of, and I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Astner
By the way has Galan slammed his dick against the trigger of mousetrap or something? Why isn't he posting in this thread?

Batman-Prime

CosmicComet
Superman bench pressing sextillions of tons for five days.

Ben Tennyson recreating a universe casually as Alien X.

It's been a good week of feats for my faves.


edit: BP, while what you say is true about moving the earth itself is different than just benchpressing what its weight would be, (due to other gravitational bodies involved) you have to remember that PF Superman never simply moved them. His flight power gave him horsepower in dragging, so those were never purely strength feats.

Astner
Originally posted by CosmicComet
edit: BP, while what you say is true about moving the earth itself is different than just benchpressing what its weight would be, (due to other gravitational bodies involved) you have to remember that PF Superman never simply moved them. His flight power gave him horsepower in dragging, so those were never purely strength feats.
In what trajectory and in what time frame? It's in an elliptical balance around the sun, using the Earth's velocity to your advantage not much force is necessary to alter the orbit.

But with a force of over

http://i.imgur.com/ZBqrk.png

you could stop the Earth in its orbit and move it around freely, as long as you don't get too close to the sun.

For reference that's about 6.09 10^18 tons on Earth, so six quintillions, which is an order of magnitude less than sextillion.

Zack Fair
Say its a high end feat and all...but like what other good strength/lifting feat does 52 Supes have? Wouldn't this be an average at least for now?

Astner
I'd say that the feat is fair game. To be frank, I don't know why people would argue against it, unless they were biased. New 52 has been rather consistent in terms of feats, or rather hasn't had time to screw up; it's a new and current feat, thus representing DC properly; it's already quantified.

Mindset
Is old Supes faster?

Astner
Originally posted by Mindset
Is old Supes faster?
vin

Juntai
He did that without being in the sun for 5 days?
That's pretty boss.
lol.

JakeTheBank
laughing out loud Man, this seems like the Second Coming of Christ or something.

Pre-Flashpoint wins.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
laughing out loud Man, this seems like the Second Coming of Christ or something.

Pre-Flashpoint wins. He's the one we were waiting for

He's the Superman we always knew existed

He's not just another top-tier herald, he's THE top-tier herald

Golgo13
Originally posted by Juntai
He did that without being in the sun for 5 days?
That's pretty boss.
lol.

Yeah, Pre-Flashpoint Supes would be crying if he didn't have sun for 5 days. stick out tongue

Mindset
Originally posted by Starscream M
He's the one we were waiting for

He's the Superman we always knew existed

He's not just another top-tier herald, he's THE top-tier herald Shut up.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
He's the one we were waiting for

He's the Superman we always knew existed

He's not just another top-tier herald, he's THE top-tier herald

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up.

thumb up

cdtm
Originally posted by Mindset
Is old Supes faster?

More durable, too.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Starscream M

He's not just another top-tier herald, he's THE top-tier herald

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/041/f/3/Burn_After_Reading_Punch_GIF_by_Teri928.gif

Golgo13
Originally posted by Starscream M
He's the one we were waiting for

He's the Superman we always knew existed

He's not just another top-tier herald, he's THE top-tier herald

Great speech, man. It made me teary eyed.

Mindset
Originally posted by Golgo13
Great speech, man. It made me teary eyed. Your sight is impaired, now Bruce pounces.

You've fallen for one of the oldest rape tricks in the book.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Mindset
Your sight is impaired, now Bruce pounces.

You've fallen for one of the oldest rape tricks in the book.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/urk_zpsf66ffe66.gif

JakeTheBank
We would save you, Prep Man, but Bruce can take on any five of us at once.

Surely you understand why we don't intervene. It would be folly.

Golgo13
Screw Prep-Man, save GOLGO! Is Bruce really big or really fast?

StyleTime
He's both.

Damborgson
He's already at low meta. His power grows day by day.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Golgo13
Is Bruce really big

You'll find out once he puts it in.

Golgo13
The deadliest combo known to man, huh?

Mindset
Originally posted by Golgo13
Screw Prep-Man, save GOLGO! Is Bruce really big or really fast? Let's put it this way, if I am the Dr. Doom of rape, Bruce is Pym.

abhilegend
The last time superman said "I can bench-press the planet", was instantly chalked up as hyperbole by everybody in this forum. Now when superman actually did that, he's weaker than the same superman whose hyperbole is an actual feat of this superman. Splendid!

Mindset
shhhut your face.

JakeTheBank
You seem upset.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You seem upset.
More like laughing.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
More like laughing.

I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes your stronger.

http://www.destinationhollywood.com/movies/starwars/images/moviequotes/starwars3_clip15.jpg

Mindset
Captain Planet's boner is resting on his shoulder.

JakeTheBank
Palpatine knows better to look directly at it.

Diesldude
DCNU was pushing himself to find the limits of his strength. Pre- Flashpoint superman hasn't as far as I know. Since his strength was dynamic, he should have been able to do what dcnu did. He did pulled earth with a skyfather level being pushing against him. The Hal's contraption was a harness which allowed superman to get a grip on the planet and it also prevented the earth from ripping apart between the 2 opposing forces. Too early to tell imo.

Newjak
Pre-Flashpoint still has the feats advantage over DCNU. One impressive feat does not a career make, Pre-Flashpoint Superman has been doing incredibly impressive feats for many, many years that are on par or better than the one DCNU performed.

Give it some years let DCNU get some feats under his belt. It shouldn't take long Superman tends to be a feat racking machine in comics. It's one of his niches.

Juntai
Originally posted by Mindset
Let's put it this way, if I am the Dr. Doom of rape, Bruce is Pym. Then who is Pym?

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
Pre-Flashpoint Superman has been doing incredibly impressive feats for many, many years that are on par or better than the one DCNU performed. No, he hasn't. In fact, any encounter pre-DCnU Superman had with planet/moon moving showed, every single time, that he needed help in order to do it, and it wasn't a sure thing even with help.

Don't talk about things you have no clue about.

Newjak

-Pr-
I'm starting to think we should put a moratorium on DCNU Superman until the issue comes out next week.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm starting to think we should put a moratorium on DCNU Superman until the issue comes out next week.

Or people can do what you, Phil, and others have said and just use common sense and approach the "wait and see" mindset.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or people can do what you, Phil, and others have said and just use common sense and approach the "wait and see" mindset.

yeah, but this is the internet, so...

Philosophía
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And I think that's exactly what Morrison wanted to do. Create the perfect strength feat. I can agree with it tbh. I hope you realize that you're saying that nobody can ever surpass pre-DCnU Superman in strenght, for the simple fact that he lifted infinity. As in, no character who was ever created, or will ever be created, can ever surpass him, and they'd have to lift infinite weight in order to match him.

As in, put all of the Marvel Universe characters (including cosmic beings) who haven't lifted infinite weight together, and Superman wouldn't even be budged in terms of strength.

On the other hand, you ignore the repeated times that pre-DCnU Superman has been explicitly shown to need help, and even fail with that help, when Planet/Moon moving was involved.

Are you serious here? Do you not grasp what saying "Superman lifted infinite weight" implies?

Basically, DCnU Superman could have crushed countless galaxies into a fist-seized cube, soccer-kicked it into another Megaverse, and it would still be inferior to pre-DCnU Superman because, well, that guy lifted infinite weight!

What the f*ck?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
However moving a Planet is not the same as benchpressing it's weight. There are more things then just Earths mass what keep it in it's orbit. The Black Hole feat is similar and is arguably in the same level. You have to overcome the gravitional pull of the Sun, the Moon and some other near planets to move earth from it's orbit. I don't think Pre-Flashpoint Superman would have much trouble to replicate this feat in this machine. He was just unfortunate enough to never try it. Still we have 2 infinite feats, black holes, mageddon etc. It's enough.


1). Bench-pressing a planet requires lesser force than to move it out of orbit.
2). Superman has infinite strength is a retarded argument, and this is coming from one of the most overzealous Superman fans here.
3). Nothing else other than the infinite feat come close to bench-pressing Earth for 5 days, without sun, and only sweating a drop at the end while basically being "is that it?"

I honestly can't wrap my head around somebody reading pre-Flashpoint Superman and going "eh, this guy can perform that feat". As in, I've read literally every one of his appearances and I'm telling you that he is consistently not even close to being powerful enough to do it.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
Infinite Book It's already being discussed. Don't tell me you believe Superman has infinite strength? As in, he is infinitely stronger than, say, Thor for example?

Originally posted by Newjak
Slowing down the super sized Ship in Final Crisis laughing out loud

Not even close to being comparable.

Originally posted by Newjak
surviving super novas Durability.

Originally posted by Newjak
containing a black hole in his hand Tell me, with actual argumentation, what level of strength does this feat imply? Or do you think throwing around "black hole" means anything, because you've heard it on the forum?

Originally posted by Newjak
the numerous speed feats he has. We're talking strenght. I even mentioned pre-DCnU Superman has better speed feats.

Philosophía
I can't believe I'm arguing that the pre-Flashpoint Superman couldn't bench-press Earth for 5 days without sun and going "is that it?" afterwards.

Holy flying fu*k.

If I said he's capable of this a few days ago, everybody would be like "stop trolling, Phil" and "what, you've turned into h1?"

And now everybody else is h1 and is a fan of pre-Flashpoint Superman, with his apparent "casual planet moving strength for extended periods of time", in order to demean this feat.

Ah, KMC.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
yeah, but this is the internet, so...

Then go Dark Phoenix Cyclops and start handing out warnings and bans like crazy.

Newjak

-Pr-

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
mmm

It's the only way to save the mutant populace KMC.

abhilegend

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say he had Infinite Strength

But it is what it was an incredibly impressive strength feat up there with many others. You don't have to say it.

You used Superman lifting infinite weight.

That means you say that Superman has infinite strenght.

Either stand by that, or not. Don't cry "stop putting words in my mouth" once you realize the absurdity of your argument.

Originally posted by Newjak
The ship feat shows the amount of Force he can exert to do something when needed to Holey moley vaguness!

That means absolutely nothing.

Unless you can prove using actual arguments, you've got nothing, and your mentioning of this feat was just to fill up space, in order to seem what you have an idea what you're talking about.

Which you don't.

Originally posted by Newjak
The black hole feat was meant to impressive considering the gravitational pull of a blackhole is considered great, the strength needed to contain would therefore also be great. Holey molet vaguness! Again!

Prove what it imples. Give me evidence it's comparable to what Superman did here.

Show me anything, or stand down, and don't talk about things you're not knowledgeable about, just to seem knowledgeable.

Because, as it can be seen here, it only makes you look ridiculous. Because I'm not the type to let you get away with bullshit.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
He once said "I can bench press earth" just two years ago. Everybody was "TROLLOLOLOL, hyperbole". KMC never leaves a chance to demean superman feats, even posters at CBR have agreed that this is beyond any herald level being but apparently silver surfer can do this on KMC.

Yah, clearly everyone on KMC hates Superman and demeans his feats but loves Silver Surfer. thumb up

Philosophía
Originally posted by -Pr-
Good point. Where were all these ****ers a few weeks ago? Seriously, do you realize that people are now just coming out, saying "eh, I believe the Superman we've been debating for the last half a decade here at KMC was actually capable of bench-pressing Earth for days on-end without sunlight, and being basically 'meh' about it"?

It's a miracle.

This is a special breed of idiocy.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yah, clearly everyone on KMC hates Superman and demeans his feats but loves Silver Surfer. thumb up
Now, I'm sure they at least hate superman and silver surfer is an easy choice to put against him. 99% of these posters have likely never read a silver surfer comic.

Newjak

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Now, I'm sure they at least hate superman and silver surfer is an easy choice to put against him. 99% of these posters have likely never read a silver surfer comic.

Oh, you were actually serious in thinking KMC has an anti-Superman/pro-Silver Surfer agenda?

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
That was something I posted in the how strong do you think Superman is thread.

So don't act like everyone has always been against the idea that Pre-Flashpoint Superman can bench the planet. I have always said superman is one of if not the strongest High Herald character and given the power level of that tier moving planets and benching planets is well within his strength range imo.

Most of the time the the disagreements come with the notion you guys carry that this somehow makes the character so much stronger than everyother character in that range that you guys think he will easily beat them all whether in a fight or a test of strength. I don't oppose the idea that, in a very extreme sitution, with everything on stake and the only option, pre-DCnU Superman could probably move a planet (eventough that is very hard to prove based on actual arguments - in fact, consistency shows that he can't even in extreme situations, when everything is on the line - see JLA, New Krypton or whatever), but he'd most definitely be unconscious or exhausted right afterwards.

Here, Superman does it as a training exercise, casually, for 5 days, out of the sunlight, and is literally "is that it?" afterwards.

The difference in magnitude is immense.

I'm tempted to battlezone people on this because it's so obvious for anyone who has actually read the comics.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, you were actually serious in thinking KMC has an anti-Superman/pro-Silver Surfer agenda?
These threads and replies made me think about it. Its not only superman though, hulk is a MAJOR victim of this too. I'm not talking about straight up hating but instead of a hate for his feats.

Newjak

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, you were actually serious in thinking KMC has an anti-Superman/pro-Silver Surfer agenda?

To be fair, for the longest time Surfer did get more of a pass than Superman.

Not as bad anymore, but still.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
These threads and replies made me think about it. Its not only superman though, hulk is a MAJOR victim of this too. I'm not talking about straight up hating but instead of a hate for his feats.

Now when you say "KMC" do you mean the forum as a whole, which includes people like yourself, Phil, Diesldude, Delta1938, Juntai, Pr, Galan, CosmicComet, Cogito, Prep-Man, Batman-Prime (all of which if they don't ardently support Superman within reason, are at least knowledgable enough about Kal as to not lowball his feats when supplied or looking at them) or are you really just talking about a handful of posters?

Because honestly, looking at the grand scheme of things and which "parties" various posters fall in, I really don't see how the majority of KMC's current members is opposed to Superman and looks for the chance to demean and lowball him every time. Unless those people are just very vocal and loud about it, which is kinda cancelled out by his hardcore supporters and people who are least reasonable enough to see what's what.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
And I think that sells the High Herald level category short. Then prove it with arguments, I'm right here.

I'll do a battlezone, and you can take the strongest high herald prior to this, pre-Flashpoint Superman, and I'll conclusively prove that he can't do this feat.

I'll even provide you with every scan you want for him.

Up front.

Originally posted by Newjak
Superman has held a black hole, something in which night even light can escape do to the gravity. Again with vague "this is strong, surely it means something"?

Put solid arguments or don't put them at all, because this is just wasting my time.

Martian_mind
The best part about this?


Jonn still takes him 10/10

Philosophía
Originally posted by Martian_mind
The best part about this?


Jonn still takes him 10/10 Last I remember, J'onn was going down like a ***** to one of Helspont's underlings, who had only a fraction of his power.

ha-som

Newjak
Originally posted by -Pr-
To be fair, for the longest time Surfer did get more of a pass than Superman.

Not as bad anymore, but still. I think that had more to do with powerset. People gave Surfer a pass cause some people believed he could do anything.

Originally posted by abhilegend
These threads and replies made me think about it. Its not only superman though, hulk is a MAJOR victim of this too. I'm not talking about straight up hating but instead of a hate for his feats. I still think it's less to do with hate and more to do with people automatically assuming an incredibly impressive feat somehow equates to them steam rolling other people in the same category despite the fact those people also have incredibly ridiculous feats of their own.

For instance Surfer can casually destroy a planet as a side of effect of his attack, he did so in annihilation.

Thor can survive in the sun without any issues to his being.

Flash-Point Superman can survive Supernovas and Blackholes

Green Lanterns can contain Big Bangs.

The point is once you get to a certain level, High Herald, those guys have such crazy feats all over the place it gets really hard to simply state said character can not do something when a writer could easily have said character do something and it not PIS at that level.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Newjak
I think that had more to do with powerset. People gave Surfer a pass cause some people believed he could do anything.

I still think it's less to do with hate and more to do with people automatically assuming an incredibly impressive feat somehow equates to them steam rolling other people in the same category despite the fact those people also have incredibly ridiculous feats of their own.

For instance Surfer can casually destroy a planet as a side of effect of his attack, he did so in annihilation.

Thor can survive in the sun without any issues to his being.

Flash-Point Superman can survive Supernovas and Blackholes

Green Lanterns can contain Big Bangs.

The point is once you get to a certain level, High Herald, those guys have such crazy feats all over the place it gets really hard to simply state said character can not do something when a writer could easily have said character do something and it not PIS at that level.

Some of them still do, they just number less nowadays.

Martian_mind

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Now when you say "KMC" do you mean the forum as a whole, which includes people like yourself, Phil, Diesldude, Delta1938, Juntai, Pr, Galan, CosmicComet, Cogito, Prep-Man, Batman-Prime (all of which if they don't ardently support Superman within reason, are at least knowledgable enough about Kal as to not lowball his feats when supplied or looking at them) or are you really just talking about a handful of posters?

Because honestly, looking at the grand scheme of things and which "parties" various posters fall in, I really don't see how the majority of KMC's current members is opposed to Superman and looks for the chance to demean and lowball him every time. Unless those people are just very vocal and loud about it, which is kinda cancelled out by his hardcore supporters and people who are least reasonable enough to see what's what.
Obviously people other than who have actually read superman. You'd be surprised how many posters I'm taking account in here.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I don't read DCnu, or Marvel anymore.

In fact, I don't even read comics at all anymore.

And I STILL know Jonn takes anyone 10/10 ha-som I'll hold the line until you get back in. J'onn deserves to kick some ass.

You should read the new Justice League of America with J'onn once it comes out. Supposedly it will prove he is the most dangerous being on the planet.

Martian_mind

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Obviously people other than who have actually read superman. You'd be surprised how many posters I'm taking account in here.

But considering our regular and semi-regular posters, do you honestly, deep down think there's a movement against Superman?

I mean, seriously. All of those posters, while they don't always agree on everything, at least don't outright hate him or his feats.

Unless you're bringing up old threads/posts made by people who don't frequent the forum or have since changed their mind, I just don't see this "majority is against Superman" thing. Even a good of people who aren't huge fans of his have at least said "wow, that feat is good/impressive/insane".

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But considering our regular and semi-regular posters, do you honestly, deep down think there's a movement against Superman?

I mean, seriously. All of those posters, while they don't always agree on everything, at least don't outright hate him or his feats.

Unless you're bringing up old threads/posts made by people who don't frequent the forum or have since changed their mind, I just don't see this "majority is against Superman" thing. Even a good of people who aren't huge fans of his have at least said "wow, that feat is good/impressive/insane".
Of course our regular and semi-regular posters. If I count old posters only a handful of them didn't hate his feats.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course our regular and semi-regular posters. If I count old posters only a handful of them didn't hate his feats.

So break it down to me then.

What percentage of active KMCers now hate Superman and/or lowball his feats?

Martian_mind
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So break it down to me then.

What percentage of active KMCers now hate Superman and/or lowball his feats?

*Raises hand.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So break it down to me then.

What percentage of active KMCers now hate Superman and/or lowball his feats?
About 69.57%. This isn't a survey jake, I'm talking with personal observation which may or may not be true.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
About 69.57%. This isn't a survey jake, I'm talking with personal observation which may or may not be true.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/JeriTroll/Jeritroll3-1.png

Diesldude
Benching earth for 5 days without replenishment and only breaking a sweat is huge. I don't think anyone except superman (both pre-dcnu and dcnu) can do this.
Iirc Delta once postulated with Mathematics that lifting the tiny black hole was greater than lifting 1000 earth weights. That's greater than bench pressing a single earth weight. Then you have abhi's scan showing him supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang. This is greater than the power needed to bench earth for 5 days straight without replenishment. This shows that pre flashpoint superman has the strength and the power to replicate this feat.

I am not trying to downplay this feat and I agree that only a superman can perform it but it isn't enough to prove that the current superman is > pre flashpoint superman especially when this superman got concussed by a backhand.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Astner
In what trajectory and in what time frame? It's in an elliptical balance around the sun, using the Earth's velocity to your advantage not much force is necessary to alter the orbit.

But with a force of over

http://i.imgur.com/ZBqrk.png

you could stop the Earth in its orbit and move it around freely, as long as you don't get too close to the sun.

For reference that's about 6.09 10^18 tons on Earth, so six quintillions, which is an order of magnitude less than sextillion.

Your equation is an nice exercise for physic classes but it lacks important variables.

The mass of an object increases the faster it moves. Considering this alone it's pretty obvious that Earth has a bigger mass when it moves then when it's "still". The faster you try to accelerate the mass the more force you need, the more it's mass increases. Till finally you would need an infinite amount of force to move a mass that is relatively speaking infinite as it apporaches the speed of light.

So, you need more force to stop earth against it's direction of movement then simply lifting it (Lift a heavy stone, catch it when someone throws it at you with 29,78 km/s). The force you need to stop it and it's mass are significantly greater. When you lift earths mass you move it for a short distance, when you accelerate it further it's mass increases and the force you need to increase its speed grows. Basic physics. The time frame and the speed you want to reach are important. If you want I can calculate it for you h18 style once I get home, but common sense and basic physical knowledge should be enough.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Diesldude
Iirc Delta once postulated with Mathematics that lifting the tiny black hole was greater than lifting 1000 earth weights.
Originally posted by Diesldude
Then you have abhi's scan showing him supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang. This just in - Superman supplying 1/4 the power of the Big Bang is now valid. It's irrelevant that weeks ago it was laughed at furiously - Superman just pulled a feat beyond any other high herald, so we must downplay it as much as we can.

Also, no, for the first one.

Newjak

quanchi112

Philosophía
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/6aec5034a86e6fffac4460b33d0c7465/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-017.jpg
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/4c269aa9ad787d94917a9b33b0251645/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-018.jpg
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/4eefe6a613b226585d33e872da3656db/Avengers_Assemble-Zone-019.jpg

Have the tears dried yet, quanshee?
Originally posted by Newjak
Nope that is still ridiculous It's about as ridiculous as saying that pre-DCnU Superman could bench-press Earth for 5 days, without sun, and saying "is that it?" afterwards.

Newjak

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
Nah cause the the way Abhi went about saying Superman supplied 1/4th of the power is ridiculous what I said wasn't. Both stances are unsupported. Both are absurd to anybody who has read Superman. Both are basically a matter of common sense failure.

They're quite similar.

Newjak

Philosophía
Originally posted by Newjak
No Pre-Flashpoint Superman has some crazy stand alone feats for strength.

We've already been over them. Yes, you've already got destroyed on your baseles stance.

I even extended the invitation to a battlezone, with me even providing you the scans, but then you went silent.

The sole difference between your stance and abhi's is that posters hate him, and they side with you because it favors their favorite characters, who they don't want stomped by Superman.

carver9

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