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Who wins?

Helspont, based on the WTFease he manhandled Supes. And I'm not basing Supes on the benching feat

Yeah, even prior to that, that was one hell of an impressive showing.

Damn Helspont beat Supes!!!

Lolz.

While grifter with his TK was able to avoid looking as bad as Supes which was just insane...

Orion stalemated a sun-amped Superman (pre-reboot)!!

He wins.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
While grifter with his TK was able to avoid looking as bad as Supes which was just insane...

Grifter>Helspont>Supes=WildCATs ftw!

gtSPJZ-qlhA

Have to see more from NuDC Supes (yes I know about the Earth Benchpressing) especially durability feats.

Helspont was shown as a big deal (as he should be)

But still going with Orion (Classic until we see what the NuOrion can do)

Classic Orion IMHO has the best showings of any (mainstream?) herald ever against Supes, and he would beat (again IMO) Helspont, and NuSupes for that matter.

It's looking like Helspont is the new top-of-the-pyramid.

I'd say Helspont is up there so far, but for my money NuDarkseid is superior.

Not only the whole League couldn't do nothing to stop him in a fight, but he also KOed, the entire League when he first arrived, then he oneshot Koed Supes, broke GL's arm, and finally was manhandling WW (with one hand), Supes (bearhug after a two handed Supes blitz), and was fine after having both his eyes stabbed with mystical weapons. The League only managed to bfr him by literally pulling a boom tube out of Cyborg's @$$.

Plus he has already conquered Earth 2, and that's a big feat for any villain's CV.

Originally posted by Galan007
Orion stalemated a sun-amped Superman (pre-reboot)!!

He wins.

err..



I don't know what scene you're referring to, but Orion has always been portrayed as regular Supes' equal(ish) when both are unamped. I don't even believe you actually think Orion would take a sun-amped Superman in a neutral setting.

Helspont backhanded a physically more imposing Superman (DCnU) into unconsciousness.

One of his heralds, with a small fraction of his power, downed Martian Manhunter easily.

Helspont one-shots him if he gets even mildly serious here.

Originally posted by Cogito
err..



I don't know what scene you're referring to, but Orion has always been portrayed as regular Supes' equal(ish) when both are unamped. I don't even believe you actually think Orion would take a sun-amped Superman in a neutral setting. Superman: Man of Tomorrow #13.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman: Man of Tomorrow #13.

That's a great feat (especially since at that point Superman was powerful enough to ignore Kryptonite) and make's me worried about how powerful the new Orion will be...

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman: Man of Tomorrow #13.

Still don't believe you think Orion = Sun-amped Superman > Superman (base).

You know there's too much contradictory history.

Orion didn't stalemate a sun amped superman, it was a boosted superman. Orion also made it clear that without surprise he would've had no chance at all. Seriously barda and megarod looked more impressive than orion and astro force. Just two appearances later a normal superman was smacking orion around after shrugging off cheapshot astro force blasts from orion. Its like saying that superman stalemated Infinity man so he would curbstomp orion.

Originally posted by Cogito
Still don't believe you think Orion = Sun-amped Superman > Superman (base).

You know there's too much contradictory history. Superman flies near the sun:



A few pages later, Orion does extremely well against him:






After the rest of the group swarms and Kryptonites Supes, he flat-out says that they would have killed him had he not have spent so much time near the sun:

Thus he was definitely amped during that battle to some extent-- otherwise, by his own accord, he would have been killed.

Vis-a-vis, Orion stalemated a sun-amped Supes.

---

Anyhow, I wasn't really posting it as evidence for Orion. Typically he is portrayed as Superman's equal... That one feat is contradictory to pretty much every other battle they've had. The writer just got a hard-on for Orion there.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman flies near the sun:



A few pages later, Orion does extremely well against him:






After the rest of the group swarms and Kryptonites Supes, he flat-out says that they would have killed him had he not have spent so much time near the sun:

Thus he was definitely amped during that battle to some extent-- otherwise, by his own accord, he would have been killed.

Vis-a-vis, Orion stalemated a sun-amped Supes.

---

Anyhow, I wasn't really posting it as evidence for Orion. Typically he is portrayed as Superman's equal... That one feat is contradictory to pretty much every other battle they've had.

Awesome feat.
Shows how powerful The Dog Of War was.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman flies near the sun:



A few pages later, Orion does extremely well against him:






After the rest of the group swarms and Kryptonites Supes, he flat-out says that they would have killed him had he not have spent so much time near the sun:

Thus he was definitely amped during that battle to some extent-- otherwise, by his own accord, he would have been killed.

Vis-a-vis, Orion stalemated a sun-amped Supes.

---

Anyhow, I wasn't really posting it as evidence for Orion. Typically he is portrayed as Superman's equal... That one feat is contradictory to pretty much every other battle they've had. The writer just got a hard-on for Orion there.
Not really a stalemate for me, but I'd take Orion against Helspont.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman flies near the sun:



A few pages later, Orion does extremely well against him:






After the rest of the group swarms and Kryptonites Supes, he flat-out says that they would have killed him had he not have spent so much time near the sun:

Thus he was definitely amped during that battle to some extent-- otherwise, by his own accord, he would have been killed.

Vis-a-vis, Orion stalemated a sun-amped Supes.

---

Anyhow, I wasn't really posting it as evidence for Orion. Typically he is portrayed as Superman's equal... That one feat is contradictory to pretty much every other battle they've had. The writer just got a hard-on for Orion there.
That was no stalemate. Orion flat out said that he would've lost without the element of surprise. Good feat for him but its an outlier.

It was a stalemate, imo. Neither party gained any ground over the other during the time in which they fought. Superman would have eventually gained the upper hand, but he was subdued by the other heroes before he ever did.

Originally posted by Galan007
It was a stalemate, imo. Neither party gained any ground over the other during the time in which they fought. Superman would have eventually gained the upper hand, but he was subdued by the other heroes before he ever did.
It was too brief to call it a stalemate + orion saying he would've lost without an element of surprise. Barda looked more impressive than him which is lolworthy. SMH @ Louise Simmonson.

I'm glad people are using turbohost instead of photobucket. Thumbs up Galan.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Barda looked more impressive than him which is lolworthy. No she didn't.

However, I agree that the showing itself was dumb as hell. A sun-amped Supes should've shredded Orion with no difficulty.

Originally posted by Galan007
No she didn't.

However, I agree that the showing itself was dumb as hell. A sun-amped Supes should've shredded Orion with no difficulty.
She stunned him with just one shot of mega rod to the face, while superman shrugged off a surprised attack of astro force.

Yeah, it was dumb.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She stunned him with just one shot of mega rod to the face, while superman shrugged off a surprised attack of astro force.

Yeah, it was dumb. Barda's Megarod merely knocked Superman off balance. A blast from the AF knocked Superman halfway across the earth. The scans were posted above.

Originally posted by Galan007
Barda's Megarod merely knocked Superman off balance. A blast from the AF knocked Superman halfway across the earth. The scans were posted above.
Yeah, it made superman off balance enough to enable orion to stun him with a punch. AF was completely shrugged off no matter how much distance it took him across the planet.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm glad people are using turbohost instead of photobucket. Thumbs up Galan. why are you having problems with photobucket? are you not switchin btw mobile and computer versions?

Helspont looks fomidable enough. But I think it's too early to judge him properly, till I won't see how he is defeated I can't give a proper opinion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it made superman off balance enough to enable orion to stun him with a punch. AF was completely shrugged off no matter how much distance it took him across the planet. Knocking someone halfway across the planet>>>>knocking someone off balance. Not even debatable.

Originally posted by Galan007
Knocking someone halfway across the planet>>>>knocking someone off balance. Not even debatable.
Yet another thing I disagree with you. But its clear you're not going to change your opinion, so agree to disagree.

The blast from the Astro Force obviously packed more punch than the Mega Rod (I don't even understand how this is debatable) but neither attack did anything to Superman.

Good fight.

Orion rips off his head.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Good fight.

Orion rips off his head.

This.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yet another thing I disagree with you. But its clear you're not going to change your opinion, so agree to disagree. It's best to stop here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The blast from the Astro Force obviously packed more punch than the Mega Rod (I don't even understand how this is debatable) but neither attack did anything to Superman. Agreed.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's best to stop here.

Agreed.
I already stopped. No need to gloat.

No gloating. I was just concurring with his interpretation.

Originally posted by Galan007
No gloating. I was just concurring with his interpretation.
Okey-dokey.

Originally posted by ODG
Not really. Not really what? Helspont backhanded Superman into unconsciousness. This Superman is superior to pre-Flashpoint Superman.

None of that is debatable.

Originally posted by ODG
Not surprising since he was being assaulted by her Blue Flame, which would render using that fight unreliable (at best) for measuring respective power levels. I hope you're not implying a weakness explotation here just because it's called "Blue Flame", because that would be borderline idiotic.

Originally posted by ODG
Not really. Orion's got better feats. Orion's got better feats than casually backhanding a Superman into unconsciousness

Originally posted by ODG
I'm not interested in discussing the implications of an unreleased comic, particularly when what we've seen makes evident that DCnU Superman is pushing himself past the levels he previously operated on... which included the Helspont fight. Where in the preview did you see Superman pushing himself? He lifted the Earth for 5 days, out of the sun and he barely worked a sweat. That's not pushing himself, that's just showing what he can casually do right now . It is clearly visible that he pushed himself against Helspont much more than he did in order to perform this feat.

Thus the "is that it?" part, and needing to get extradimensional mass to start and actually challenge him - which Superman didn't want to do, so as not to endanger the Earth.

This is Superman's base level - his casual level, sort to speak. Barely working a sweat. Pushing himself will come later.

Originally posted by ODG
Don't be so obscenely obtuse. Right back at you. Just because its name is "blue flame" doesn't mean that it's a weakness impediment. It wasn't an impediment when J'onn attacked her physically, eventough she is glowing with that energy. It wasn't stated as a weakness at any point - in fact, it was explicitly put an emphasis on how this was just a fraction of Helspont's power which took down J'onn, which clearly points out that it's the potency of the attack which downed him, and not some imaginary weakness exploitation.

You don't have a leg to stand on, be serious here.

Originally posted by ODG
Orion's got better feats than someone who backhanded DCnU Superman (who apparently hasn't been pushing himself to his heights) See above.

Originally posted by ODG
Moreover, it is apparent that DCnU Superman is accessing new levels of power previously not accessed before. Specifically because of Helspont. Your embellishment is wholly wasted. Repeating the same thing doesn't make it true. Superman wasn't pushing himself, this was explicitly shown ("the sole drop of sweat after 5 days of bench-pressing Earth out of the sun" and stated ("is that it?" and implied to need more in order to do so ("Going forward, the only way to aproximate the tonnage you need to test the upper limits of your strength, would necessitate tapping directly into a pan-dimensional wormhole" .

You're wrong, based on the evidence we have until now.

You're also baseless about J'onn, and deflect my arguments "but his fists didn't go through the 'blue fire' she was glowing with! I'll ignore everything else you said!". It is not regular fire - it is energy with diffrent applications. Just because it's called "blue fire" doesn't mean it's fire in the common sense, nor that it would affect J'onn the same way. It wasn't even hinted at - and it affecting him was directly correlated to its potency . You're baseless. You're wrong about his one, too.

Nothing more needs to be said. And unless something different is said on Wednesday, you'll continue to be wrong.

Originally posted by ODG
Just because you use the phrase, "push yourself," as only suggesting significant exertion accompanied by visible fatigue and loads of sweat, doesn't mean I do or did. Superman is pushing himself to access new levels of power he's not accessed previously.

ODG, ladies and gentlemen, giving new meanings to the term "push oneself". How is Superman pushing himself to access new levels of power -- by not pushing himself, and barely working a sweat after 5 days of doing something that by his own words is shit "is that it?", by his physical state being with "barely a drop of sweat" and by the scientist's own words,not testing his limits "the only way to aproximate the tonnage you need to test the upper limits of your strength, would necessitate tapping directly into a pan-dimensional wormhole". OneDumb logic at work.

As I was writing this post, I picked up a pencil from the desk. Started bench-pressing it. I'll do this for a couple of hours, and when I work up a sweat, I know I've done it - I've finally reached levels of power I've not accessed before.

Same old ODG.

Superman was never shown accesing new levels of power - he hadn't even reached his current, baseline limits. The comic literally spells it out for you.

Originally posted by ODG
And that is readily apparent, based on the evidence we have until now. I'm sorry you felt the need to defend your inaccurate description, "wasn't an impediment when J'onn attacked her physically, eventough she is glowing with that energy." But you bungled that yourself. When you have proof that the Blue Flame displays no similarities to fire and is meaningless to those who are weak to fire, let us know. I'm not here to make your argument though. And I don't need an author pandering to us with a narrative or character statement reminding us of J'onn's weakness to fire in the same instance where he gets blasted by Blue Flame to be reminded of same. You do. You need to prove that an alien, blue energy source activated J'onn's weakness, when literally nothing in the issue even hints that's the case. Just because an alien energy source with various capabilities is called "blue flame" isn't an argument. Just in case people don't think I'm omitting facts, here is the entire scene:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_SupermanAnnual-Zone-014.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_SupermanAnnual-Zone-015.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_SupermanAnnual-Zone-016.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_SupermanAnnual-Zone-017.jpg

Now prove that the energy blast had anything to do with exploiting J'onn's weakness, and not the potecy of the blast itself. What's next? J'onn is weak to Kyle's energy because he is the "Torch bearer"?

Why do you think constantly mentioning Grifter means anything? Do you think the name "Grifter" means that he can't give Helspont problems ?

Guys, for the time being, please refrain from discussing previews of comics.

Wait til the issue comes out, then have at it.

taking helspont