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As we all know Goku makes it to Namek and faces the Ginyu Force. Vegeta senses Goku's new power and believes he might be or have the potential to go Super Saiyan. Vegeta talks about a Super Saiyan but this one could only maintain the power in the Oozaru State. Then he is destroyed with his own power. This saiyan existed 1000-3000 years pryor to the events of DBZ. So who is the mystery Super Saiyan that Vegeta talked about in the Namek Saga? Although Brolly can go into the LSSJ form, he isn't that Legendary Super Saiyan because he is the same age as Goku, that doesn't even equate to 100 let alone 1000. Also Bardock going back in time and Turning Super Saiyan doesn't count and I have my questions on that too.

Bardock went back in time and went super saiyan?

^

/End Thread.

Canon: We don't know anything about the Original Super Saiyan other than s/he gained a tremendous power in a transformed state. (Possibly the reason Vegeta in the anime pictured the Ape, seeing as the only transformed state he knew about at the time was the Oozaru)

Non-canon: Bardock was the Original SS and Broly was the Legendary SS, as LSS isn't a title but a state. The ape can be explained by Vegeta assuming that is what the transformed state would be, and if this was ever called 'legendary' it would be in the sense that it was (at the time) only a legend.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Canon: We don't know anything about the Original Super Saiyan other than s/he gained a tremendous power in a transformed state. (Possibly the reason Vegeta in the anime pictured the Ape, seeing as the only transformed state he knew about at the time was the Oozaru)

Non-canon: Bardock was the Original SS and Broly was the Legendary SS, as LSS isn't a title but a state. The ape can be explained by Vegeta assuming that is what the transformed state would be, and if this was ever called 'legendary' it would be in the sense that it was (at the time) only a legend.

Yeah but the ape form was too common for it to just stand out as Super seeing that every saiyan was doing it by the moon. Maybe the Golden Ape form in GT but still we've debated for years of it being canon like the SSJ4 form.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
Bardock went back in time and went super saiyan?

Yeah, it was a TV special they did called the Episode of Bardock. This movie he survives the blast done by Frieza and gets transferred to the past. He meets Frieza's ancestor "Chilled", Bardock fights him and miraculously turns Super Saiyan then defeats Chilled and walks off the scene. Like most Specials they make, it's hard to make it canon material. It's getting ridiculous.

Weren't the Super Saiyan that appeared a thousand years ago a kill-crazy maniac?

^Yeah, think the manga states that it destroyed their first homeworld. Which makes sense as if becoming a SS could make Goku pretty ruthless, a normal bloodlusted Saiyan with this rage and power boost would wreck everything.

Originally posted by atv2
Yeah but the ape form was too common for it to just stand out as Super seeing that every saiyan was doing it by the moon. Maybe the Golden Ape form in GT but still we've debated for years of it being canon like the SSJ4 form.

This is at best what Vegeta himself imagines it would look like. It has to be as he only knows about it from a (as shown) scarcely detailed story thats a millennia old that could only be told from...;
1. (Manga, canon, no Ape shown) The few people that survived/escaped from the soon to be destroyed planet Vegeta, the first one.
2. (Bardock, non-canon) The 'two' Plant characters. The Saiyans would only know about it if the story got passed on over the centuries until the Saiyans were somehow told this before they took over the planet.
3. (^^^) From Chilled giving a message on his deathbed warning his family about a Saiyan who can transform with blond hair.


Basically the only notable things that would have been passed down in legend are "Gained power", "Transformed", "Blond hair". To a Saiyan whose only known state was the Ape, the mention of a "Blond transformation that grants massive power" would paint anyone the picture of a golden Oozaru.

It would make sense to me if the level of power needed to become SS was first obtained in Ape mode. Goku and Vegeta were weird in being tail-less, but if they had ape mode, they could've gotten to the required power level at 1/10th the the base power.

I thought about something else. Since saiyans power increases when they recover for injury and near death experiences, I wonder how much Bardock's power increased in that special. In the 1st special he had a power level of 10,000. When he survived Frieza's blast and got sent back in time and recovered how much did his power increase? I would imagine it being in the range of 25,000-50,000 and if he transformed to SSJ then he would have a level of 2,500,000. How much does a saiyan's power increase when they recover from near death?

Actually Goku had a power level of 150,000,000 as a Super Saiyan.

http://i.imgur.com/JD1gp.jpg

億 (pronounced: oku) means 100,000,000, and 万 (pronounced: man) means 10,000.

So 1億5,000万 is 1∙(1⋿8)+5,000∙(1⋿4) = 100,000,000 + 50,000,000 = 150,000,000.

Originally posted by atv2
How much does a saiyan's power increase when they recover from near death?

Varies, it doesn't seem to be a set amount.

I'd say as much or little as the plot demands.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I'd say as much or little as the plot demands.

Yea.

If you're talking early on, a buncha near-deaths doesn't necessarily bring one into the thousands. In the Freiza saga, one single one brought Goku from 180,000 to 3 mil.

Originally posted by atv2
I thought about something else. Since saiyans power increases when they recover for injury and near death experiences, I wonder how much Bardock's power increased in that special. In the 1st special he had a power level of 10,000. When he survived Frieza's blast and got sent back in time and recovered how much did his power increase? I would imagine it being in the range of 25,000-50,000 and if he transformed to SSJ then he would have a level of 2,500,000. How much does a saiyan's power increase when they recover from near death?

Zenkai boosts are one of the biggest inconsistent plot points in DBZ. After the Freeza saga they jsut dissappear.

Even before Freeza the boosts were hilarious. For example after Vegeta got beaten on Earth his power level rose two or three thousand points up.

After Vegeta got beat by Recoome which isn't NEARLY as bad as the beating on Earth his power level rose at least 100,000. It's completely unexplainable.

And btw SSJ has a 50x multiplier of your base so no way could Bardock be 2.5 million if his base is like 30k.

Originally posted by Based
Zenkai boosts are one of the biggest inconsistent plot points in DBZ. After the Freeza saga they jsut dissappear.

Not quite. Perfect Cell got one.


There was also an implication that the really intense training to get to SS for Vegeta got those boosts, but I think once someone's super saiyan, yea, that's the end of 'em.

Originally posted by Based
Zenkai boosts are one of the biggest inconsistent plot points in DBZ. After the Freeza saga they jsut dissappear.

Even before Freeza the boosts were hilarious. For example after Vegeta got beaten on Earth his power level rose two or three thousand points up.

After Vegeta got beat by Recoome which isn't NEARLY as bad as the beating on Earth his power level rose at least 100,000. It's completely unexplainable.

And btw SSJ has a 50x multiplier of your base so no way could Bardock be 2.5 million if his base is like 30k.

Go back even farther, and you could argue Goku surviving that Super God Water stuff was a Zenkai boost. Best way to explain why something that's basically a super poison would power him up.. (And isn't he the only one it powered up, and killed anyone else?)

Originally posted by Q99
Not quite. Perfect Cell got one.


There was also an implication that the really intense training to get to SS for Vegeta got those boosts, but I think once someone's super saiyan, yea, that's the end of 'em.

Oh yes silly me. Which further shows the inconsistency of it all. It's not forgotten it's just used to advance the plot regardless if it makes sense.

Anyways the Saiyans never got one after they turned Super Saiyans.

Originally posted by Based
Oh yes silly me. Which further shows the inconsistency of it all. It's not forgotten it's just used to advance the plot regardless if it makes sense.

Anyways the Saiyans never got one after they turned Super Saiyans.

Hm, one could suppose that the Super Saiyan transformation either alters the user so they can no longer Zenkai, and/or it draws out all the possible Zenkai energy to max (which would actually fit with what Vegeta said).