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Free For All:
Superman
Martian Manhunter
Firestorm
Captain Atom
Hal Jordan
Wonder Woman

Fight in DCu New York.
Everybody starts out 100 feet from each other
No Teaming up.
No BFR.
Fight in Character.
Knock out eliminates people.

Steel.

:trollface: ^

Why would you place him in the fight then?

I took him out. I don't really know why I threw him in there

Superman

Captain Atom. Easily.

Superman presses Earth at them.

Not going to do anything to CA.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman presses Earth at them. For five days, or just once?

Also, Hal's natural durability is pretty low, does this mean that Hal can overpower Superman easily?

Lot's of questions arrise. Too many Jakenbank.

Superman.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
For five days, or just once?

Also, Hal's natural durability is pretty low, does this mean that Hal can overpower Superman easily?

Lot's of questions arrise. Too many Jakenbank.

All five days. And then he sweats, just a single drop, for added intimidation before saying "Is that it?".

If Hal can create a zombie Kryptonian dinosaur construct, Superman can be in trouble. Until he incinerates it in an oil explosion.

Yeah, or MM shapeshifts into a K dino. Non zombiefied, so no problems with durability.

Forum MM will also use TP, and is immune to fire.

Hal or J'onn

Pre reboot i'd say Hal Jordan.

But since Hal's showing in JLA don't equal his own book... I'd say Supes right now

Personally I say WW, not because I think she's the strongest or anything, but because she's the best tactician (combined with good endurance and defense), which matters a lot in a battle royal.

Hal was never a contender preboot and neither was diana. Lulz at tactics winning here.

Pre reboot? Superman.

Post? Captain Atom's been pretty impressive.

Hal Jordan wins unless its post reboot. And how he would do post reboot would depend on whether its green lantern Hal Jordan or jla Hal Jordan. Yes there's a difference.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Hal Jordan wins unless its post reboot. And how he would do post reboot would depend on whether its green lantern Hal Jordan or jla Hal Jordan. Yes there's a difference.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Hal Jordan wins unless its post reboot. And how he would do post reboot would depend on whether its green lantern Hal Jordan or jla Hal Jordan. Yes there's a difference.
Hal would get beaten to a pulp here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hal would get beaten to a pulp here.

Hal has the tools to beat everyone else on the field.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Hal has the tools to beat everyone else on the field.

You could say that about a bunch of the other contestants too, though.

There must have been times when either one of these characters have gone crazy/evil, and decided to fight the others. What happened then?

And of course, I'm not counting powerups like Parallax.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You could say that about a bunch of the other contestants too, though.

True, I guess I just feel that the ring is almost teching against anything the others will throw at him, like telepathy and such.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Hal has the tools to beat everyone else on the field.
So does others. GLs have fallen from grace though.

Originally posted by Odekahn
True, I guess I just feel that the ring is almost teching against anything the others will throw at him, like telepathy and such.
Punching in the face works best.

Jonn always wins.

Always.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Jonn always wins.

Always.
An ass whooping.

I agree.

If its dcnu I will concede superman taking it over Hal. If not, Hal wins.

Hal or CA.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hal was never a contender preboot and neither was diana. Lulz at tactics winning here.

Thats a joke as 3 different GL's have KO'd supes before.

your bias is showing......

Dr. Manhattan prolly

Originally posted by Odekahn
If its dcnu I will concede superman taking it over Hal. If not, Hal wins.
Even preboot superman would beat GL.
Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
Thats a joke as 3 different GL's have KO'd supes before.

your bias is showing......
Name one. Parallax doesn't count, guardian powered Tom Kalmaaku doesn't count and suckershotting superman in eyes to momentarily disable superman doesn't count as well.

We have already had this debate. Kryptonite bullets. GG.

Originally posted by Odekahn
We have already had this debate. Kryptonite bullets. GG.
Hal already mentioned he can't make real kryptonite in GL:Legacy, he intended to use superman's fear against it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hal already mentioned he can't make real kryptonite in GL:Legacy, he intended to use superman's fear against it.

Could you provide a scan for me please?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Could you provide a scan for me please?


While you're awaiting a scan saying a Green Lantern CAN'T create kryptonite with his ring, I'll show you an instance of a Green Lantern DOING so to take Superman out of fight, first in full URL format ...



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849454

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849457


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Superman, the Man of Tomorrow #13, Volume 1
Writer: Louise Simonson
Penciller: Paul Ryan
Date: Spring 1999
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman:_Man_of_Tomorrow_Vol_1_13

... and then in click-able link form.



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849454

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849457


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Superman, the Man of Tomorrow #13, Volume 1
Writer: Louise Simonson
Penciller: Paul Ryan
Date: Spring 1999
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman:_Man_of_Tomorrow_Vol_1_13

Originally posted by Odekahn
Could you provide a scan for me please?
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/fc994039.jpg

Hal intended a green construct to bait superman in thinking it was a piece of kryptonite, instead of creating it. As for those kyle scans, kyle's ring was special from begining and here hal wouldn't have batman to provide the chemical composition of artificial kryptonite and j'onn to relay it in his mind.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/fc994039.jpg

Hal intended a green construct to bait superman in thinking it was a piece of kryptonite, instead of creating it. As for those kyle scans, kyle's ring was special from begining and here hal wouldn't have batman to provide the chemical composition of artificial kryptonite and j'onn to relay it in his mind.

No where in that monologue does it say the Kyrptonite is fake. It simply says that the Kryptonite is the bait to make him feel fear - and then make those fears real in his mind. Drowning him in fear makes him even more ineffective than simply using kryptonite.

Hell, it says Superman knows the ring can do this - so he would take precautions against real kryptonite. "Wrap his fist with his cape".

You just used evidence to prove the opposite of your point.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
No where in that monologue does it say the Kyrptonite is fake. It simply says that the Kryptonite is the bait to make him feel fear - and then make those fears real. Drowning him in fear makes him even more ineffective than simply using kryptonite.

Hell, it says Superman knows the ring can do this - so he would take precautions against real kryptonite. "Wrap his fist with his cape".

You just used evidence to prove the opposite of your point.

Beat me to it lol

Originally posted by Blair Wind
No where in that monologue does it say the Kyrptonite is fake. It simply says that the Kryptonite is the bait to make him feel fear - and then make those fears real in his mind. Drowning him in fear makes him even more ineffective than simply using kryptonite.

Hell, it says Superman knows the ring can do this - so he would take precautions against real kryptonite. "Wrap his fist with his cape".

You just used evidence to prove the opposite of your point.
It did and marty actually created a green construct to lure superman in that bait, if hal was capable of creating kryptonite he would've simply said "create kryptonite and beat superman" not going to such elaborate plans. So you're saying that if classic hal created kryptonite, all superman has to do to counter that is "to wrap his fist in his cape"? Lulz, epic lulz.

Oh and Kalmaaku was powered by a portion of guardians' powers there, not given hal's ring. Nothing he did there is admissable for hal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It did and marty actually created a green construct to lure superman in that bait, if hal was capable of creating kryptonite he would've simply said "create kryptonite and beat superman" not going to such elaborate plans. So you're saying that if classic hal created kryptonite, all superman has to do to counter that is "to wrap his fist in his cape"? Lulz, epic lulz.

Maybe because Hal wants to beat superman, not kill him?

Originally posted by abhilegend
It did and marty actually created a green construct to lure superman in that bait, if hal was capable of creating kryptonite he would've simply said "create kryptonite and beat superman" not going to such elaborate plans. So you're saying that if classic hal created kryptonite, all superman has to do to counter that is "to wrap his fist in his cape"? Lulz, epic lulz.

I never said it made sense as to why Hal would think Clark would do that (does the cape protect against attacks in other ways?) - but you are dead wrong on how you are interpreting it. It's not an opinion, you are just flat out wrong. It never says or implies that it is fake. That's your own desires imposed on the scene.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Maybe because Hal wants to beat superman, not kill him?



Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and Kalmaaku was powered by a portion of guardians' powers there, not given hal's ring. Nothing he did there is admissable for hal.



That's hilarious. Ode asks for a scan proving he can't, you give him one, we call you out on it, and then it's no longer admissible anyways according to you.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I never said it made sense as to why Hal would think Clark would do that (does the cape protect against attacks in other ways?)


I'm not sure if Superman's cape ever protected against radiation specifically, but the clothing both he and his cousin Supergirl wore were effective and life-saving proof in the past against heat, cold, and projectile attacks, and the 2 used their capes to guard themselves and others numerous times.

It might be worthwhile to point out that we HAVE seen capes capable of blocking Kryptonite radiations in the comics in the past in Justice Leagues books, by the way. Hopefully, the following attachment will appear large enough to illustrate:

Originally posted by Odekahn
Maybe because Hal wants to beat superman, not kill him?
Under Joe Kelly kryptonite wasn't that deadly to superman in small quantities. It merely incapacitated him.Originally posted by Blair Wind
I never said it made sense as to why Hal would think Clark would do that (does the cape protect against attacks in other ways?) - but you are dead wrong on how you are interpreting it. It's not an opinion, you are just flat out wrong. It never says or implies that it is fake. That's your own desires imposed on the scene.









That's hilarious. Ode asks for a scan proving he can't, you give him one, we call you out on it, and then it's no longer admissible anyways according to you.
Hal's comment was in reference to the yellow shield which would've stopped hal from affecting his fist, but its a laughable to argue that it would've stopped kryptonite radiation. How about you give something other than your opinion, we saw hal deploying elaborate plans to beat superman, we saw a more powerful version of a GL creating green constructs to make superman believe that it was kryptonite and exploiting indirect fear of it. None of that indicates hal can create kryptonite.

I already mentioned that kalmaaku was powered by guardians' power.

Also lulz @blue's hilarious use of elseworld scans where batwoman's lead lined cape protects superwoman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hal's comment was in reference to the yellow shield which would've stopped hal from affecting his fist, but its a laughable to argue that it would've stopped kryptonite radiation. How about you give something other than your opinion, we saw hal deploying elaborate plans to beat superman, we saw a more powerful version of a GL creating green constructs to make superman believe that it was kryptonite and exploiting indirect fear of it. None of that indicates hal can create kryptonite.

I already mentioned that kalmaaku was powered by guardians' power

You are again imposing your opinion of the limitations of a GL ring. Before Johns, GL's could do and create anything they wanted as long as they could will it.

Here is the dialogue:

----------------

"It would be our duty to use any means necessary to stop him. I've been doing studying - and I think I've figured it out. In some ways, it was sort of easy....After all, it IS green. Kryptonite is the key.

Problem is, he knows I can do this. He'd be ready to counter. He'd wrap his fist with his cape, or some such thing -- But still, Superman is afraid of Kryptonite. Really afraid of it. He can't stop those split-second feelings. So I'd turn that into a weapon. The kryptonite is bait to pull out his fear...the ring does the rest.

In an instant, he'd be swarmed over by the things he feared most. Probably wouldn't make sense to anyone watching. But to him, it would be his nightmares given form...it would be horrible."

--------------------

No where does it say construct, fake, or even just a green rock. He says kryptonite.

Btw, we have a precedent for fake K-nite....

Protex and the White Martians tried it. As soon as Superman realised it was fake, he tore them a new one.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Kryptonite is the bait to make him feel fear - and then make those fears real in his mind. Drowning him in fear makes him even more ineffective than simply using kryptonite.

it says Superman knows the ring can do this -





Besides in the scan shown before, this theory is proven in Grant Morrison's first Justice League story arc "New World Order".


Scan 1 of 3.

Yah, and then he realised it was fake, then went to town on them. Even gave them a fighting chance by not using his heat vision.

And I wager White Martians' telepathic illusions are >> GL's attempts to fake K-nite.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yah, and then he realised it was fake, then went to town on them. Even gave them a fighting chance by not using his heat vision.

And I wager White Martians' telepathic illusions are >> GL's attempts to fake K-nite.


Several problems you're not stopping to think about, Adkal.

1. Superman did NOT realize the Kryptonite was fake in that particular encounter.

Protex laid him out, as my attachment at the end of this message shows.

He would stay out of commision for the following issue.

He would stay out of commision for a good portion of the issue that followed that one as well.


2. Superman did not fight "them". He fought 1 person. He fought Protex. It was actually Batman and Martian Manhunter who took down the rest of Hyperclan.

3. Superman isn't fighting Hal Jordan alone. He's fighting a JLA rumble royal line-up that includes ... Martian Manhunter. Who has the same ability to transmit telepathic illusion as Protex did -- and knows more about Superman and his fears.

It also includes Captain Atom, who I'm less familiar with, but I'm pretty sure can use red sun radiation.

Scan 3 of 3. Protex of the Hyperclan, having brought Superman low with the mere ILLUSION of Kryptonite, drags him away...

JLA, New World Order.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
You are again imposing your opinion of the limitations of a GL ring. Before Johns, GL's could do and create anything they wanted as long as they could will it. They needed the exact configuration of the element before Johns.


He doesn't need to say it out loud "Hey guys, I'm going to pull fears from superman's mind by baiting him with fake kryptonite because if I created real kryptonite, he'd wrap his fist or umm... do something to counter it". That'd be idiotic to say, hal knew that he couldn't make the real kryptonite but superman didn't know that . Kyle didn't need pulling dreams or whatever to nearly kill a sunamped superman in moments.

Illusion? That's different than Hal actually creating Kryptonite with his ring. It's just an illusion.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Several problems you're not stopping to think about, Adkal.

1. Superman did NOT realize the Kryptonite was fake in that particular encounter.

Protex laid him out, as my attachment at the end of this message shows.

He would stay out of commision for the following issue.

He would stay out of commision for a good portion of the issue that followed that one as well.


2. Superman did not fight "them". He fought 1 person. He fought Protex. It was actually Batman and Martian Manhunter who took down the rest of Hyperclan.

3. Superman isn't fighting Hal Jordan alone. He's fighting a JLA rumble royal line-up that includes ... Martian Manhunter. Who has the same ability to transmit telepathic illusion as Protex did -- and knows more about Superman and his fears.

Several problems you're not stopping to think about:

1. Did Superman realise it was fake in that storyline?
2. Based on their weakness to fire (as seen when normal humans with matches were driving them off), could Superman, ina royal rumble, with all his powers, replicate Batman's feat when all he used was gasoline?
3. I was supporting Abhi, and we were discussing GL. I have already given it to MM, check the very first page of this thread. I gave it to...Martian Manhunter. Who has the same ability to transmit telepathic illusion as Protex did -- and knows more about Superman and his fears.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They needed the exact configuration of the element before Johns.


He doesn't need to say it out loud "Hey guys, I'm going to pull fears from superman's mind by baiting him with fake kryptonite because if I created real kryptonite, he'd wrap his fist or umm... do something to counter it". That'd be idiotic to say, hal knew that he couldn't make the real kryptonite but superman didn't know that . Kyle didn't need pulling dreams or whatever to nearly kill a sunamped superman in moments.

Wow, that's a giant stretch and the link you provided doesn't say that. It was clear what's happening and you turn around and say "we'll what it really means is this..." It's desperate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Btw, we have a precedent for fake K-nite....

Protex and the White Martians tried it. As soon as Superman realised it was fake, he tore them a new one.
Superman didn't know that protex was a white martian at that point or that he had mental powers. The moment he realized that protex was a white martian, he broke the illusion.

And who is Adkal? I'm going to take it as a compliment...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman didn't know that protex was a white martian at that point or that he had mental powers. The moment he realized that protex was a white martian, he broke the illusion.

Eggszactly.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Wow, that's a giant stretch and the link you provided doesn't say that. It was clear what's happening and you turn around and say "we'll what it really means is this..." It's desperate.
It happened exactly the same way. Marty created a green construct which had no affect on superman but it made him afraid and marty pulled the fear from his mind. What's desperate here is to expect Johns' hal jordan to create kryptonite.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It happened exactly the same way. Marty created a green construct which had no affect on superman but it made him afraid and marty pulled the fear from his mind. What's desperate here is to expect Johns' hal jordan to create kryptonite.

How can you make that assumption? Honestly, from what both the writing and art show us, how can you say that?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
How can you make that assumption? Honestly, from what both the writing and art show us, how can you say that?
From art and writing? Superman don't show fear on countering kryptonite, he is usually writhing in pain to show that.

To say that it had no affect on Superman is a decision you personally made outside of the story. The story itself doesn't support that decision.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Forum MM will also use TP ... and is immune to fire.

You've got me intrigued now.
DO you actually have support for this one?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
To say that it had no affect on Superman is a decision you personally made outside of the story. The story itself doesn't support that decision.
The fact that it didn't harm superman is obvious to is clear to anybody without a bias..

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You've got me intrigued now.
DO you actually have support for this one?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27414/1027163-over_fire_super.jpg

After the Trial by Fire storyline.

Unless..they are flames of psychic significance.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27414/1027163-over_fire_super.jpg

After the Trial by Fire storyline.
Which was forgotten as soon as it came out. One year forward and preus was pushing his shit in by HV.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which was forgotten as soon as it came out. One year forward and preus was pushing his shit in by HV.

Hence why I said, forum MM lol.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
How can you make that assumption? Honestly, from what both the writing and art show us, how can you say that?

Sounds also that the most natural thing to do would be for Manhunter to simply create the illusion that GREEN LANTERN was creating the kryptonite with his ring. Superman wouldn't have good reason to suspect it was fake if done that way, and would likely suffer psychological debilitation long enough for Manhunter to knock him out a split second later in that case.

Didn't MM survive being in the sun right after that?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Unless..they are flames of psychic significance.

... Trial by Fire storyline.



Impressed that you found and posted that for me in 5 minutes flat.

Thanks, D.S.

Originally posted by carver9
Didn't MM survive being in the sun right after that?
No, he was killed just going near sun in brightest day. Lulz at manhunter creating illusion in superman's mind. He has been wtfpwned by just entering in superman's mind by superman's permission.

Abhi, stop dragging people in to argue about Superman by claiming silly things.

Seriously.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Abhi, stop dragging people in to argue about Superman by claiming silly things.

Seriously.
Silly things? What silly things?



http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_SupesMMMental1.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_SupesMMMental2.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4294/supersting08go4.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5261/supersting09vl6.jpg

srug

Originally posted by -Pr-
Abhi, stop dragging people in to argue about Superman by claiming silly things.

Seriously.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The fact that it didn't harm superman is obvious to is clear to anybody without a bias..

But you do have a bias dont you?

We see a panel of him flying and then green light with fear and perhaps pain on his face due to the kyrptonite affecting him. Unless there is more art to showcase him resisting it, you are wrong.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
But you do have a bias dont you?

We see a panel of him flying and then green light with fear and perhaps pain on his face due to the kyrptonite affecting him. Unless there is more art to showcase him resisting it, you are wrong.
I meant GL bias. Not "fear and perhaps pain", just fear as its spelt out for anyone who cares to read text and not just look at pretty pictures. You are trying me to prove that it wasn't "fear and perhaps pain" and prove a negative of your hypothetical "perhaps pain"? Just read up the next panel "To anyone watching it wouldn't make any sense" because superman wasn't in any physical pain and it wasn't even alluded anywhere. Where did you pulled that "perhaps pain" from is beyond me.

And I meant your huge Superman bias.

"It wouldnt make sense to anyone watching" was in reference to what happens after the kryptonite affects him and they mind puck him with his fears. Since you see nothing more than his facial reaction you cannot really convince anyone that he wasnt affected. The next panel, we are looking inside Supermans mind to see what he sees.

And its funny you mention the text. I believe I wrote it all out for you - it supports the fact that Superman knows Green Lantern can create Kryptonite.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
And I meant your huge Superman bias.

"It wouldnt make sense to anyone watching" was in reference to what happens after the kryptonite affects him and they mind puck him with his fears. Since you see nothing more than his facial reaction you cannot really convince anyone that he wasnt affected. The next panel, we are looking inside Supermans mind to see what he sees.

And its funny you mention the text. I believe I wrote it all out for you - it supports the fact that Superman knows Green Lantern can create Kryptonite.
I'm a superman fan first, but I don't start giving him 10/10 over GLs.

Yeah, in the next panel just after your "kryptonite makes him feel pain", he is totally unharmed, this isn't smallville where kryptonite poisoning fades away instantly.

So, we see his face and we know "kryptonite" was just to make him afraid, where was this pain alluded which you're referencing? "Perhaps" wouldn't cut it.

Superman believed GLs can create kryptonite, doesn't makes it true when all the facts contradict it just like he believed protex had real kryptonite. Heck, we saw hal exploiting that false belief. Anyway, hal hasn't created kryptonite and to think that Geoff Johns' GLs can create kryptonite is laughable. If you're going to argue about pre ZH hal, superman wraps his fist in the yellow shield of his cape and punch him or simply HV's(yellow) him and KTFO hal. Anyway hal loses.

Originally posted by armedforbattle
Free For All:
Superman
Martian Manhunter
Firestorm
Captain Atom
Hal Jordan
Wonder Woman

Fight in DCu New York.
Everybody starts out 100 feet from each other
No Teaming up.
No BFR.
Fight in Character.
Knock out eliminates people.




Pre-Reboot


P.R. is relatively knowledgeable and seems to have great respect for Captain Atom. I've read that Monarch was/is essentially him.
Monarch took on Superboy Prime despite Prime being amped beyond his normal levels due to Prme absorbing Green Lantern Guardians of the Galaxy energy from an explosion.

Even without that, I'm told the relatively "normal" version of Captain Atom took on 3 versions of Superman and won

As a result of that and the knowledge that Captain is a being whose own atoms and molecules are continually being rearranged, I'm willing to either give CA the crown or omit him from contention due to "warping" into the future when one of the other powerhouses overloads him.


Superman -- Gets taken out by Firestorm, depending on whom Firestorm fears most, Clark or J'onnz. If he's most afraid of Clark, Firestorm creates Kryptonite and that's all she wrote. Clark gets a break if Firestorm is most afraid of Manhunter, though. Give the slightest nod to Firestorm targeting Superman first only because his main power is to create/re-arrange matter and the ONLY person with a universally-known weakness to a well-known compound that Firestorm knows how to synthesize is Superman.

Martian Manhunter -- Theoretically, the toughest one to eliminate. I see him taking out Firestorm after Firestorm takes out Superman. Likeliest winner IF he acts sensibly.

Firestorm -- Takes out Superman then gets taken out by Manhunter.

Hal Jordan -- Not sure; thinks he gets taken out by Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman -- Versus Captain Atom, don't know. Maybe Captain Atom was overloaded by one of Superman's punches via the blitz people like to call and teleported forward a week. Then Firestorm took out Supes. Manhunter took Firestorm out; too much ability to surround the area with flammable material. That leaves Diana with a nearly free shot at Manhunter, save for the complication of Hal. Don't know who Hal would go after in that case. Seen more Wonder Woman victories over Green Lanterns than the reverse so have to go with Wonder Woman winning a Hal versus Diana confrontation.

Likeliest scenario in this case would be Diana and Hal taking on J'onnz.
Nothing more dangerous than someone who is intangible, superfast AND can read your thoughts, after all. Likeliest result either way, though is that Hal now goes out. Either he takes on J'onnz and has his mind messed with, or he takes on Diana and is overwhelmed physically.

Think it'd be a really, really close battle at this point. Could go either way. Got to give a slight nod to Manhunter for sheer versality, ability to go invisible in a camouflage-happy setting like New York, and, of course, his ability to read minds and know what Diana's plan for fighting him is.

Overall pre-reboot winner: J'onnz.

Blue fails again.

Why would Superman blitz CA but not the one guy who can create Kryptonite on the field?

Duh, its bluewaterrider!

Guys, don't make it personal.

Blue, the normal Captain Atom did no such thing. That was Monarch.

Originally posted by armedforbattle
Free For All:


Superman
Martian Manhunter
Firestorm
Captain Atom
Hal Jordan
Wonder Woman




DCnU


Eliminating Captain Atom and Firestorm from contention for being virtual unknowns. If someone wants to say they win and can make a good case for them, fine.


Looking now at these 4.

Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Superman
Hal Jordan


Considering who would win from these people, well, the order seems just about right.
Hal seems to be a relatively weak link, least likely to win among these four, already given very rough treatment in 1-on-1 matches with Clark and Diana. As for J'onnz, well, the only thing we've seen of him was taking on the entire DCnU roster, and apparently winning.

Diana gets the nod over Clark because of Clark constantly getting trashed in fights, group or otherwise. He still tends to try and "tank" a lot of assaults he should simply try to avoid.

The recent equivalent-Earth press showing was impressive, however, Clark has shown nothing like that in the pages of Justice League, unless I seriously overlooked something somebody should be showing me.

It's also worth pointing out that Diana, like Clark, conceals HER true strength as well, even as her standard level is enough to draw blood from him at a kick. She can kick it into FAR higher gear. Her so-called "god"-mode revelation and handling of the goddess Artemis is proof of that.

Barring anything like that, though, going by what I've seen in Justice League itself ... got to give J'onnz the nod once again.

Also

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/th_ActionComics666p06.jpg http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/th_ActionComics666p07.jpg http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/th_ActionComics666p08.jpg http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/th_ActionComics666p09.jpg http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/th_ActionComics666p10.jpg












It was a dream.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, don't make it personal.

Blue, the normal Captain Atom did no such thing. That was Monarch.

I generally try not to.

I see it as between Superman and MM. Edge to Superman, especially if they all fight in character.

Reasoning? Within character, they ALL hold back. MM isn't going to open up with a super mental attack whilst simultaneously phasing into his head whilst using Martin vision etc. And when holding back, Superman is still top dog.

Edited.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I generally try not to.

I see it as between Superman and MM. Edge to Superman, especially if they all fight in character.

Reasoning? Within character, they ALL hold back. MM isn't going to open up with a super mental attack whilst simultaneously phasing into his head whilst using Martin vision etc. And when holding back, Superman is still top dog.

I actually wasn't talking to you lol

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
when holding back, Superman is ... top dog.


If DCnU Superman is top dog when holding back, Diana is his master.
Is she even giving him her full attention here?

****ing lulz. Suckershoting an unprepared superman is a feat now!

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If DCnU Superman is top dog when holding back, Diana is his master.
Is she even giving him her full attention here?

I was talking about DCU. Were you?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why would Superman blitz CA but not the one guy who can create Kryptonite on the field?

Why would Superman even blitz if he's in character, is a better question.

But the answer to yours is that people normally give priority to their own biggest concerns. Pre-Reboot Superman is on record saying that J'onnz tops the list of people he's most wary of on the field of combat.

It's Jonn'z he'd go after first if that's accurate; MM would actually be priority number one.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I was talking about DCU. Were you?


Well, not when I gave THAT response, I wasn't.
I was talking about and illustrating DCnU, then, hence the scan posted.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Well, not when I gave THAT response, I wasn't.
I was talking about and illustrating DCnU, then, hence the scan posted.

Which was out of context, and a complete sucker punch. Or kick, rather.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Why would Superman even blitz if he's in character, is a better question.

But the answer to yours is that people normally give priority to their own biggest concerns. Pre-Reboot Superman is on record saying that J'onnz tops the list of people he's most wary of on the field of combat.

It's Jonn'z he'd go after first if that's accurate; MM would actually be priority number one.

He blitzes against threats. He's actually pretty clever with his powers when he fights. Plus, he knows what Firestorm can do.

Nonetheless, in character, IF Superman went after MM, they'd probably fly all over the world, fighting (assuming he doesn't use his heat vision). Firestorm won't keep up if in the first few seconds of the fight, the duo are punching each other over China or in the desert somewhere, to minimise casualties (which Superman would try and do in character). At the same time, WW or someone else would fight Firestorm.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Which was out of context, and a complete sucker punch. Or kick, rather.


Establishes that Superman is naive enough to think he can wade into the middle of a fight without retaliation, has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs, and lacks the durability to keep his lip from getting cut by said blow.

For here's what immediately precedes that:

Were his hands cut?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Were his hands cut?


Don't think so. Why would they be?
Diana was targeting his chin, and not with a weapon but only her boot.
Why do you think DCnU should get cut from that?





Here, take a look at the striking scene again:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076765

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Don't think so. Why would they be?
Diana was targeting his chin, and not with a weapon but only her boot.
Why do you think DCnU should get cut from that?





Here, take a look at the striking scene again:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076765



You're confused as to why I would think Superman, after grabbing hold of a magical sword, in his hand, and then being kicked violently in the face (thus likely ripping his hand off the sword).....would have a cut hand?

Here, take a look at the scene preceding that again:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076782

You're saying after that, that his hand was unaffected?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Establishes that Superman is naive enough to think he can wade into the middle of a fight without retaliation, has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs, and lacks the durability to keep his lip from getting cut by said blow.

For here's what immediately precedes that:

He didn't thnk Diana would hit him. She's his friend. It's a logical, reasonable assumption.

He wasn't looking for a fight, so she caught him off guard. It doesn't speak to his reflexes in the slightest, especially seeing as the new 52 has gone to great lengths to show how ridiculously fast he is.

Diana was fighting Hal, and wasn't blitzing him, yet we're supposed to believe she was blitzing Superman?

I don't think so.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


You're confused as to why I would think Superman, after grabbing hold of a magical sword, in his hand, and then being kicked violently in the face (thus likely ripping his hand off the sword).....would have a cut hand?

Here, take a look at the scene preceding that again:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076782

You're saying after that, that his hand was unaffected?



What makes you think the sword is magical?

More precisely, what makes you think the sword is magically SHARP?

(By the way, if you want to try to make the case of her having a magically sharp sword in "For Tomorrow", keep in mind that

1. DCnU is a different reality

and

2. The Sword in "For Tomorrow" was NOT Diana's own. She obtained it from a MidEastern witch who closely mirrored the background of the Biblical Delilah, betrayer of the Israeli superstrongman Sampson.)

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What makes you think the sword is magical?

More precisely, what makes you think the sword is magically SHARP?

(By the way, if you want to try to make the case of her having a magically sharp sword in "For Tomorrow", keep in mind that

1. DCnU is a different reality

and

2. The Sword in "For Tomorrow" was NOT Diana's own. She obtained it from a MidEastern witch who closely mirrored the background of the Biblical Delilah, betrayer of the Israeli superstrongman Sampson.)

Hehe, you DO like to take the patronizing tone, don't you?

So its a normal sword, which Diana brings into battle, and somehow, when she fights with it, her own strength doesn't snap it.

Oh wait, maybe it IS magical, in that its super strong and durable, so that when she hacks at something, it doesn't break.

But if its magically strong and durable...how does one sharpen it?

Maybe with a magical whetstone. Or its always sharp, because nothing blunts it. But nonetheless, it would still have to have been forged magically.

Plus, there's the fact that Hephaestus is happy enough to give her weapons. Seeing as he's a god, this makes me believe weapons forged by him are magical in nature.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He didn't thnk Diana would hit him. She's his friend. It's a logical, reasonable assumption.


Not under these Justice League writers it's not...


Originally posted by -Pr-
He wasn't looking for a fight, so she caught him off guard. It doesn't speak to his reflexes in the slightest, especially seeing as the new 52 has gone to great lengths to show how ridiculously fast he is.


Reflexes are precisely what protect you when you ARE caught off guard.
Reflex is UNconscious, largely involuntary movement.




Originally posted by -Pr-

Diana was fighting Hal, and wasn't blitzing him, yet we're supposed to believe she was blitzing Superman?

I don't think so.


I don't think so either; that's precisely WHY I said Superman doesn't have particularly good reflexes.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Not under these Justice League writers it's not...




Reflexes are precisely what protect you when you ARE caught off guard.
Reflex is UNconscious, largely involuntary movement.







I don't think so either; that's precisely WHY I said Superman doesn't have particularly good reflexes.

Why under that writer wouldn't it be? They'd been friends for years?

There's still a state of readiness involved. Reflexes work better when your attention is on something. And she's close enough to his that she wasn't moving in slow motion. It doesn't make her faster.

Except that he does; they've already been shown in the comics as being excellent. Even in JL.

Wait a sec, blue.

So when Pr asked:


And you said:


The implication is that Hal was able to deal with WW speed when she's not blitzing, but Superman is unable to deal with WW's speed.


So Hal has better reflexes than Superman?

Somewhere, Abhi is frothing at the mouth. He doesn't know why yet.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait a sec, blue.

So when Pr asked:


And you said:


The implication is that Hal was able to deal with WW speed when she's not blitzing, but Superman is unable to deal with WW's speed.


So Hal has better reflexes than Superman?

Somewhere, Abhi is frothing at the mouth. He doesn't know why yet.

Not going to lie; that line made me laugh.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hehe, you DO like to take the patronizing tone, don't you?

So its a normal sword, which Diana brings into battle, and somehow, when she fights with it, her own strength doesn't snap it.

Oh wait, maybe it IS magical, in that its super strong and durable, so that when she hacks at something, it doesn't break.

But if its magically strong and durable...how does one sharpen it?

Maybe with a magical whetstone. Or its always sharp, because nothing blunts it. But nonetheless, it would still have to have been forged magically.



This is where you originally stopped; I started to respond that what you posit is perfectly rational and if you'd never heard of Haphaestus, who has done precisely what you're suggesting in parts of Diana's present series.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
This is where you originally stopped; I started to respond that what you posit is perfectly rational and if you'd never heard of Haphaestus, who has done precisely what you're suggesting in parts of Diana's present series.

I know.

So based on all this, its rational to assume that her sword is magical, like Aquaman's trident is magical etc.

So, back to the question - was Superman's hand cut? Because if not, that's a pretty good durability showing right there. You try holding onto a blade, and then getting kicked in the chin sufficiently hard enough to fly a good distance away. If its a sharp sword (and I have no reason to believe Diana carries blunt swords into battle) then I reckon your hand would be quite badly slashed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why under that writer wouldn't it be? They'd been friends for years?


You're talking about a woman who eats ice cream on the end of a sword, rates her days according to the quality of the battles they offer, murders centaurs with her bare hands after "peacefully" settling abroad, and who literally smashes her way through the walls of buildings when she's feeling "cooped up".

If you want it that way, why, after nearly 5 years, are teammates like Lantern and Diana still at each other's throats?

What happened to friendship there?

More than that, Diana's from a fighting culture.
Her sister Amazons celebrate her return with a sparring match, for cryin' out loud. Fighting is their primary means of expression.
(You should SEE how violent things get when a little bit of actual stress is introduced later on...)

Originally posted by -Pr-

already been shown in the comics as being excellent. Even in Justice League.

I would genuinely appreciate you showing a few of these instances, then. For I'll wager that what you're calling reflexes really aren't.

I would bet, for instance, that you would say Superman's tagging of the Flash was an instance of good reflexes for instance.
When in fact Superman's eyes were trained on the Flash and he was actively trying to track and grab or fool Flash into flicking range.
Quite a bit different from Superman suddenly finding a fist coming toward his face and thinking he should move out of the way and successfully doing so ... (from someone possessing metahuman speed, that is. Ma Kent's broom hand doesn't count.)

But he still managed to catch the Flash by surprise. Also, he read every medical book in that library, which means his perceptions are way up there.

Which, to paraphrase you, shows that Flash was cocky enough to get surprised, and has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You're talking about a woman who eats ice cream on the end of a sword, rates her days according to the quality of the battles they offer, murders centaurs with her bare hands after "peacefully" settling abroad, and who literally smashes her way through the walls of buildings when she's feeling "cooped up".

If you want it that way, why, after nearly 5 years, are teammates like Lantern and Diana still at each other's throats?

What happened to friendship there?

More than that, Diana's from a fighting culture.
Her sister Amazons celebrate her return with a sparring match, for cryin' out loud. Fighting is their primary means of expression.
(You should SEE how violent things get when a little bit of actual stress is introduced later on...)



I would genuinely appreciate you showing a few of these instances, then. For I'll wager that what you're calling reflexes really aren't.

I would bet, for instance, that you would say Superman's tagging of the Flash was an instance of good reflexes for instance.
When in fact Superman's eyes were trained on the Flash and he was actively trying to track and grab or fool Flash into flicking range.
Quite a bit different from Superman suddenly finding a fist coming toward his face and thinking he should move out of the way and successfully doing so ... (from someone possessing metahuman speed, that is. Ma Kent's broom hand doesn't count.)

Clark and Diana are much closer than Hal and Diana. That, and they'd had a mutual attraction for years. When you're making googly eyes across a room at one another, you don't expect the woman to kick you in the face.

Actually I would count his encounter with Flash. And his reading every medical text. And the few other instances of super-reactions he's shown.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
FLash was cocky enough to get surprised, and has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs.

Exactly! Too slow to defend himself midstride when Superman's about to flick his head from 4 inches away, at least.


As for the sword, we're not specifically told where it's from and what it is normally used for or how much use it actually gets. After 5 years I imagine it could get dull, and not until year 5, where the Wonder Woman title apparently starts, does Diana have all that much extremely regular contact with the gods. She doesn't send it to Heph for monthly maintenance or anything.

That also misses the fact it's an impactful kick. How much of a grip do YOU maintain on something when someone punches you in the jaw?

Even that, of course, overlooks the fact we're not shown the transition to that position. Let's argue those supposedly great reflexes of Superman's. He has his grip on a sword. Suddenly he sees a boot moving fast toward his face. Does he keep his grip? Or let go of his grip and instinctively start to block?


At the end of the day, though, I'm fine if you want to say Diana's kick does more damage than pulling away from a sword, magic or otherwise.

You can even tell me the unseen transition was her grabbing Clark by the wrist and forcing his hand off the sword hilt and THEN kicking him in the face, if you want.
I'll give you no argument about Diana there.
She's a very strong lady, after all ...

The lengths to blue goes is just laughable.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Exactly! Too slow to defend himself midstride when Superman's about to flick his head from 4 inches away, at least.

So Flash is unable to reach to Superman. So Superman is faster than Flash?

But Wonder Woman surprised Superman. So WW is faster than Superman.

But Hal was able to react to WW. So Hal is at least equal to WW.

But Batman managed to steal Hal's ring.

So Batman is the fastest hero on the JL roster.





Prove it.



Depends on my reactions. If I'm fast enough, I'll open my hand so that I don't get cut.



So he manages to react to a sucker punch. Which is better than what you were arguing a page or so before, so progress, I think.



Stronger than benching the Earth? Lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


So Flash is unable to reach to Superman. So Superman is faster than Flash?

But Wonder Woman surprised Superman. So WW is faster than Superman.

But Hal was able to react to WW. So Hal is at least equal to WW.

But Batman managed to steal Hal's ring.

So Batman is the fastest hero on the JL roster. LMAO.

I'm fine if you want to say Diana's kick does more damage than pulling away from a sword, magic or otherwise.

You can even tell me the unseen transition was her grabbing Clark by the wrist and forcing his hand off the sword hilt and THEN kicking him in the face, if you want.
I'll give you no argument about Diana there.
She's a very strong lady, after all ...


Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Stronger than benching the Earth? Lol.


Who thought even Superman himself would ever reach that point in the DCnU?
Certainly not most people in THIS forum.

Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus in her present DCnU incarnation.
And her writers are borrowing liberally from various sources of literature to give their interpretation of the Greek pantheon.

Diana's nearly always been up there with Superman, either close to, matching, or, in some cases, exceeding his physical strength.

That may well be more true now than at any point since the 1940s 50s and 60s.

And they certainly have the justification for it given the present literary bent.
Things would get very interesting, for instance, if they decided to borrow from the Iliad for Zeus's rough power level:



----------------------------------------------------------------------

(From the Iliad (Story of Troy) of Homer, Book 8)

Try me and find out for yourselves. Hang me a golden chain from heaven, and lay hold of it all of you, gods and goddesses together - tug as you will, you will not drag Zeus the supreme counselor from heaven to earth; but were I to pull at it myself I should draw you up with earth and sea into the bargain, then would I bind the chain about some pinnacle of Olympus and leave you all dangling in the mid firmament. So far am I above all others either of gods or men."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=GreekTexts&getid=1&query=Hom. Il. 8

Diana has never matched or exceeded superman in strength in their normal forms.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

I'm fine if you want to say Diana's kick does more damage than pulling away from a sword, magic or otherwise.

You can even tell me the unseen transition was her grabbing Clark by the wrist and forcing his hand off the sword hilt and THEN kicking him in the face, if you want.
I'll give you no argument about Diana there.
She's a very strong lady, after all ...





Who thought even Superman himself would ever reach that point in the DCnU?
Certainly not most people in THIS forum.

Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus in her present DCnU incarnation.
And her writers are borrowing liberally from various sources of literature to give their interpretation of the Greek pantheon.

Diana's nearly always been up there with Superman, either close to, matching, or, in some cases, exceeding his physical strength.

That may well be more true now than at any point since the 1940s 50s and 60s.

And they certainly have the justification for it given the present literary bent.
Things would get very interesting, for instance, if they decided to borrow from the Iliad for Zeus's rough power level:



----------------------------------------------------------------------

(From the Iliad (Story of Troy) of Homer, Book 8)

Try me and find out for yourselves. Hang me a golden chain from heaven, and lay hold of it all of you, gods and goddesses together - tug as you will, you will not drag Zeus the supreme counselor from heaven to earth; but were I to pull at it myself I should draw you up with earth and sea into the bargain, then would I bind the chain about some pinnacle of Olympus and leave you all dangling in the mid firmament. So far am I above all others either of gods or men."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=GreekTexts&getid=1&query=Hom. Il. 8

Tangent. You want to postulate on the possibility of Diana having Zeus' strength, and yet are equally open to an Amazonian warrior princess going into battle with a dull sword....

As for the sword, we're not specifically told where it's from and what it is normally used for or how much use it actually gets. After 5 years I imagine it could get dull, and not until year 5, where the Wonder Woman title apparently starts, does Diana have all that much extremely regular contact with the gods. She doesn't send it to Heph for monthly maintenance or anything.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Prove it.


If you have easy access to it, read Wonder Woman #7, Volume 5.
If you don't, if I get the chance, I'll post some relevant scans from the book in this thread.

I meant prove that it would get dull, and that she doesn't sharpen it.

Reason why I ask is this. We see from the scan and we all admit that he didn't get cut from the sword.

Scenario 1: its a dull sword. An Amazonian warrior princess, out in an unfamiliar, possibly hostile new world, does not maintain her weapons, and tries to use them in battle.

Scenario 2: When WW grabbed it, Superman was fast enough to take his hand off it, but not fast enough to stop the kick.

Scenario 3: He's durable enough that even though he was still gripping it tightly (tight enough to stop her mid swing), he didn't get cut.

Of course, Scenario 2 and 3 can co-exist together, but you, blue, are suggesting Scenario 1. Which doesn't quite sit right with me...

Here we go with blue explaining us the details for the next 10 pages.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There must have been times when either one of these characters have gone crazy/evil, and decided to fight the others. What happened then?





Superman

1. Man of Tomorrow #13. Stopped by Kyle Rayner Green Lantern synthesizing kryptonite.
2. Wonder Woman #219. Part of Greg Rucka's Sacrifice. Rolls the JLA minus Wonder Woman. Stopped by Wonder Woman throwing her tiara and slashing Superman's throat after an intense one-on-one, though Diana holds back her full power throughout the fight, knowing Superman is not to blame for his actions. Resolved with finality by Diana snapping Superman's controller's neck.



Martian Manhunter

1. Fernus, the Burning. JLA Trial by Fire. J'onnz reverts into his prehistoric fire resistant form. Rolls the JLA with ease in Round 1. The Guardians save Green Lantern John Stewart who is able to play the part of Cavalry for his teammates. Team manages to regroup ... eventually.
2. Malefaak (Malefic). Ostrander. J'onnz is possessed by the spirit of his brother. Holds his own for awhile against EVERYONE ganging up on him.



Firestorm

Fury of Firestorm #4? Heard Firestorm takes on, and possibly down, the rest of the JLA in this one. Haven't read it yet, though.


Captain Atom

Monarch. Countdown to Final Crisis.
Monarch seems to have subdued all major superheroes on his planet.
Defeated by Superman Prime with guardian amp ripping his containment suit.



Hal Jordan
Zero Hour. Parallax.



Wonder Woman

League of One. Picks off JLA members one by one except Superman, who is her failsafe for rescuing those teammates while she herself battles a fate-decreed Death-empowered Dragon, saving her teammates' lives.

Fernus wasn't j'onn. He was an entirely different being with a different power set.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm a superman fan first, but I don't start giving him 10/10 over GLs.

Yeah, in the next panel just after your "kryptonite makes him feel pain", he is totally unharmed, this isn't smallville where kryptonite poisoning fades away instantly.

So, we see his face and we know "kryptonite" was just to make him afraid, where was this pain alluded which you're referencing? "Perhaps" wouldn't cut it.

Superman believed GLs can create kryptonite, doesn't makes it true when all the facts contradict it just like he believed protex had real kryptonite. Heck, we saw hal exploiting that false belief. Anyway, hal hasn't created kryptonite and to think that Geoff Johns' GLs can create kryptonite is laughable. If you're going to argue about pre ZH hal, superman wraps his fist in the yellow shield of his cape and punch him or simply HV's(yellow) him and KTFO hal. Anyway hal loses.



Creation of Kryptonite - not construct, not fake rock.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2lswf4j.png

Superman realizes what is happening, because he knows Green Lanterns can do this, and tries to prepare for it:
http://i49.tinypic.com/153yas4.png

Superman feels the affects - he is scared of it and Hal takes says he would take advantage of that situation. From this ONE panel you cannot state that the Kryptonite has no affect on him when from what we can see it clearly does. All we see is his eyes - in some sort of negative reaction to the Kryptonite.
http://i48.tinypic.com/x56rg9.png

Now, you have no idea what is happening to Superman outside of his mind. You cannot presume that the Kryptonite had no affect, because again, from all we have seen, it has. Now, the very next panel is inside Superman's own mind. You can't say "he's unharmed", because Tom has now switched to his fear tactic and we are not viewing reality but inside Clark's mind.

http://i47.tinypic.com/20uv48n.png

This is a scan you used to try and prove that they can't create Kryptonite. Yet no where on that scan does it prove that point. It in fact proves the opposite.

I personally don't believe that Kryptonite is a sure fire way for anyone to win, I've seen Superman prevail against it too many times before. But on this one topic - the creation of Kryptonite in the first place - with this one scan, you are wrong.

Huh? Is that not the comic where Hal says HOW he would beat the JLA, as opposed to actually doing it?

Or am I thinking of something else?

Yes, that same comic. But Tom did it. Abhi was trying to use that scan to prove that they can't create Kryptonite. That scan doesn't prove that. If he has other evidence, that's fine. It's just that the scan he used doesn't prove it.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Jonn always wins.

Always.



Although I don't quite subscribe to THAT view, I DO see J'onnz presenting a greater overall challenge than any other single competitor in this group.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076752

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Yes, that same comic. But Tom did it. Abhi was trying to use that scan to prove that they can't create Kryptonite. That scan doesn't prove that. If he has other evidence, that's fine. It's just that the scan he used doesn't prove it.

Oh okay. Balls to that anyway; proving negatives is a pain in the ass.

Originally posted by Blair Wind


Creation of Kryptonite - not construct, not fake rock.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2lswf4j.png Wow, a glowing green construct which was just a bait as explicitly stated. Where was it stated to be kryptonite?

He was totally caught unaware if you read the sequence and thus the fear. Wow, he tried to counter it by rushing even further and starting to fear! Superman believing isn't something as a fact, protex proved that.

Where was it stated that superman felt its affects? There is only mention of his fears. I don't have to prove a negative, "prove the obviously fake kryptonite didn't affect superman when there is no mention of it affecting him physically". That's fear.

No, it hasn't and there is no mention of it affecting superman physically. Sorry, this is just a hypothesis of yours. In the very nex panel to this we see clark screaming while marty watches him, that continues to the next page.

It proves exactly what I said. Your "prove negative" isn't going to work here.

No and this scan can't be used in favor of hal anyway like GL fans have done many times without the whole context. Hal loses and loses hard.

Wow, abhi twists everything. How can anyone take him seriously.

Quan, I've already said that if you continue to follow me around for no reason other than troll me, I would report you. Go away.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wow, abhi twists everything. How can anyone take him seriously.

He's emulating you... ermm

Wonder Woman or Firestorm wins. Mainly Wonder Woman though.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman or Firestorm wins. Mainly Wonder Woman though.
Et t-Oh, its you. Nevermind.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Quan, I've already said that if you continue to follow me around for no reason other than troll me, I would report you. Go away. I am free to respond away. You've told me I'm on ignore and run from me on herochat. So either respond to me but quit your crying. Man up.

Quan, shut up.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Quan, shut up. Thats all you had to say. This is a place for kids with everyone reporting each other. Bye.

The funny thing is that I didn't even reported quan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thats all you had to say. This is a place for kids with everyone reporting each other. Bye.

Even if it were, that doesn't excuse you being a dick.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The funny thing is that I didn't even reported quan.

I know.

I reported him.

If quan is gone forever (too good to be true), I'd say good riddance.
srug

I like Quan...one of the funniest debaters on KMC and his persistence is unmatched. Don't know why people dislike him.

Originally posted by carver9
I reported him.
BTW carv, why didn't you change your sig?

Peas in a pod, y'all are.