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What are the best ways to troll a rabid DBZ fanboy? I want to know because I'm arguing with this MASSIVE DBZ fanboy who tells me Goku could beat Thanos, Silver Surfer, and Dark Phoenix

But Goku could really beat Thanos, Silver Surfer, and Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But Goku could really beat Thanos, Silver Surfer, and Dark Phoenix.


Goku is the strongest fictional character in creation

When god said let there be light goku kamehamehaed the universe

Remind him everytime you have the opportunity that base Goku could barely lift 40 tons and had to amp to super saiyan in order to handle it.

Goku's essentially useless when hungry, if I recall. He also routinely gets his ass kicked by his completely human, hasn't fought a real martial arts battle in like thirty years wife Chi Chi.

I'd like to know how Goku beats Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif


Goku is the strongest fictional character in creation

When god said let there be light goku kamehamehaed the universe

Third strongest.

Everybody knows that Doom > King Itachi > Goku > The rest. peaches

Originally posted by Placidity
I'd like to know how Goku beats Silver Surfer. By beating him to death with his Golden Hair.

Originally posted by Placidity
I'd like to know how Goku beats Silver Surfer.

He merged with the dragonballs at the end of GT. He now has unlimited wishes.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif


Goku is the strongest fictional character in creation

When god said let there be light goku kamehamehaed the universe

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Remind him everytime you have the opportunity that base Goku could barely lift 40 tons and had to amp to super saiyan in order to handle it.

I told him that Goku had to go SS4 to lift a building.

If he's actually a fanboy in the typical sense of the word, simply saying "Goku loses" should set him off.

As much as I love DBZ they reeeeeally can't compete with big time comic Villians/heroes...Comics are on going... DBZ has ended... Besides the new movie coming out in 2013 (idk I hear Akira is helping, like I said I try to include the movies even as feats but in the end they still fall short..if he insists on using GT feats tell him to try Dragonball Multiverse it at least has better feats than GT like Vegetto going SS3 And Broly hanging in there with him... Unlike SS4..which struggles at lifting buildings ). I mean "Death Battle" is coming out with Supes vs Goku next and they're pretty thorough with feats so unless its animated supes, Goku's bound to lose, so when that comes out just show him that

Originally posted by VG_Addict
I told him that Goku had to go SS4 to lift a building.

Well he didn't.

Goku could beat Thanos off.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Goku could beat Thanos off.

That just sounds so very, very wrong.....

ah...but no one says he can't...HAhaha! i just had to say it!

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Goku's essentially useless when hungry, if I recall. He also routinely gets his ass kicked by his completely human, hasn't fought a real martial arts battle in like thirty years wife Chi Chi. Oh come on he isn't exactly going to have his guard up or raise his hand to Chi Chi. Goku has shown that in his everyday life he has his power level way down to even a 5 like an ordinary human.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That just sounds so very, very wrong..... If we are talking about the Thanos with the infinity gems then I would agree with you but on his own goku could beat him no problem, probably at the most he would have to go super saiyan to do it.

Originally posted by Based
Well he didn't. Don't forget he also lifted half the city into place at that level.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Remind him everytime you have the opportunity that base Goku could barely lift 40 tons and had to amp to super saiyan in order to handle it. And let me remind you goku was on a kai planet at the time, the training planet would very likely be at 10 times earth's gravity so that 40 tons would feel like 400 tons, and goku said going super saiyan would make it too easy training with those weights.

Originally posted by Placidity
I'd like to know how Goku beats Silver Surfer. I admit the silver surfer is a strong dude, he could lift probably one to two hundred tons, he fires deadly blasts and is very sturdy and has a level of matter and energy manipulation but goku is out of his league goku would at the very most only have to transform to super saiyan 1 to own the silver surfer. At super saiyan goku's power increases a hundred fold, his physical strength could lift tons in the millions and fight at speeds up to the speed of light and even goku's weak energy waves could destroy the planet at the right height and range. And goku still has 3 more super saiyan transformations after that that each increase his power a hundred fold too.

Originally posted by VG_Addict
I told him that Goku had to go SS4 to lift a building. That's just a stupid GT logic error, remember this is one of the reasons people hate GT the characters don't live up to their reputation and level.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But Goku could really beat Thanos, Silver Surfer, and Dark Phoenix. I fully agree, so many people dangerously under estimate goku and let logic errors in the series confuse them. Goku is such a badass he frequently beats enemies stronger than he is.

I find it a waste of time to use goku in any vs thread. Not only is he ridiculously overpowered, this is what it always amounts to. You get the people who dont like DBZ underrating goku and those of us who like DBZ try to explain is Overpoweredness. And isnt trolling a good way to get you suspended? At the end of it all youre just repeating yourself until the thread dies.

Originally posted by omgchos
this is what it always amounts to. You get the people who dont like DBZ underrating goku and those of us who like DBZ try to explain is Overpoweredness. nah, it usually goes like this...


DBZ Stan uses powerscaling to make an argument, gets owned by feats that can actually be quantified, then resorts to saying Goku would blow up the planet.

Idk why theyd say that unless they were stupid. That makes it a loss for both. You cant conlude a vs thread with kamikaze unless the one attacking would survive somehow. I mean theres always his instant transmission but again that counts as running away so that doesnt work either. And its hard to argue with the near godlike power he has at the end of GT. So all in all you make no sense.

Originally posted by omgchos
Idk why theyd say that unless they were stupid. That makes it a loss for both. You cant conlude a vs thread with kamikaze unless the one attacking would survive somehow. I mean theres always his instant transmission but again that counts as running away so that doesnt work either. And its hard to argue with the near godlike power he has at the end of GT. So all in all you make no sense.

And don't forget that he merged with the Dragonballs at the end of GT.

how do i make no sense? I have literally seen that shit happen in versus threads.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And don't forget that he merged with the Dragonballs at the end of GT.

Thats what i meant. Frikin enlimeted wish granting powers and immortality.

Originally posted by marwash22
how do i make no sense? I have literally seen that shit happen in versus threads.

Even if thats true then whoever said that doesnt know either what theyre talking about or how to argue in a vs. thread.

And you dont make sense because youre implying that somehow you can actually find something that negates the fact that this fool is immortal and basically omnipotent.

Goku needs to breath, eat and can get sick, he could be beaten by Caesar Clown under the right circumstances, heck, give Batman some prep and he lolpwns Goku 131

Originally posted by omgchos
And you dont make sense because youre implying that somehow you can actually find something that negates the fact that this fool is immortal and basically omnipotent.

bermm

wut?


edit: oh, you're using shit from the end of GT... lol, i never saw the end of GT because it was effin' terrible and also not even canon which makes it irrelevant.

Originally posted by Bentley
Goku needs to breath, eat and can get sick, he could be beaten by Caesar Clown under the right circumstances, heck, give Batman some prep and he lolpwns Goku 131
Ill admit he may be susceptible to diseases. In fact i its not even a may lol. Tho I dont see what batman could do besides poison him. But as we all know someone from the future would just show up with the cure..... cuz the universe if effed without goku.

Originally posted by marwash22
bermm

wut?


edit: oh, you're using shit from the end of GT... lol, i never saw the end of GT because it was effin' terrible and also not even canon which makes it irrelevant.

GT wasn't terrible, it just was no DBZ. And what exactly makes it irrelevant? Ur saying it wasnt aired on TV and is therefore not an anime? Because there you go again with the making of nonsense.

so now i don't make sense because you're putting words in my mouth?

GT is irrelevant to the initial post you replied to.

This is the kind of threads you can expect from DBZ haters. They're too stupid to troll and needs help with it.


Then again what else to do when you're in your mid 30s living in your mother's basement having no friend or money but troll people with actual taste that have most likely gotten somewhere?

Originally posted by marwash22
so now i don't make sense because you're putting words in my mouth?

GT is irrelevant to the initial post you replied to.

Again with the nonsense. Just because the troll that made this thread refered to the intended recipient of his trolling as a DBZ fanboy doesnt disqualify GT from the argument that Goku would wreck those three combatants. And just to clarify thats not what you origionally said was it. You said it wasnt cannon...... you cant even decide your own argument. Toriyama still owns it and oversaw it, it counts, get over it.

facepalm

my initial comment...

Originally posted by marwash22
nah, it usually goes like this...


DBZ Stan uses powerscaling to make an argument, gets owned by feats that can actually be quantified, then resorts to saying Goku would blow up the planet.

Originally posted by marwash22
facepalm

my initial comment...
Actually you responded to my post..... the nonsense keeps coming. You notice how i said anyone that argues the way you described is stupid. I was letting you know, yet you just kept on with more and more nonsense. You just cant keep your arguments straight. Take a look at MY initial post and decide whats relevant. As that was the start of this whole back and forth here. And next time if try and keep the explanations down to just 1 reason you think so. Not the 2 you've given so far.

Originally posted by VG_Addict
What are the best ways to troll a rabid DBZ fanboy? I want to know because I'm arguing with this MASSIVE DBZ fanboy who tells me Goku could beat Thanos, Silver Surfer, and Dark Phoenix

Superman > Goku

That's the best way.

Originally posted by omgchos
Actually you responded to my post..... the nonsense keeps coming. You notice how i said anyone that argues the way you described is stupid. I was letting you know, yet you just kept on with more and more nonsense. You just cant keep your arguments straight. Take a look at MY initial post and decide whats relevant. As that was the start of this whole back and forth here. And next time if try and keep the explanations down to just 1 reason you think so. Not the 2 you've given so far. uggh

Originally posted by Robtard
Superman > Goku

That's the best way.

What was that one superman that moved a galaxy. He could give pre GT goku a run for his money.... think he was gold or something

Originally posted by marwash22
uggh
As i thought.

Originally posted by omgchos
As i thought.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
I admit the silver surfer is a strong dude, he could lift probably one to two hundred tons, he fires deadly blasts and is very sturdy and has a level of matter and energy manipulation but goku is out of his league goku would at the very most only have to transform to super saiyan 1 to own the silver surfer. At super saiyan goku's power increases a hundred fold, his physical strength could lift tons in the millions and fight at speeds up to the speed of light and even goku's weak energy waves could destroy the planet at the right height and range.
Ignoring the other hilarious parts, when did Goku's "weak energy waves" destroy a planet?

Because, you know.....Silver Surfer has actually done that.
Originally posted by omgchos
You get the people who dont like DBZ underrating goku and those of us who like DBZ try to explain is Overpoweredness.
Pointing out when Goku loses doesn't make someone a hater.

Originally posted by Effect Veiler
This is the kind of threads you can expect from DBZ haters. They're too stupid to troll and needs help with it.


Then again what else to do when you're in your mid 30s living in your mother's basement having no friend or money but troll people with actual taste that have most likely gotten somewhere?
Seems pointless to throw insults like that. We're on an online forum talking about DBZ characters. It's effectively one nerd dissing another nerd....for being a nerd.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Ignoring the other hilarious parts, when did Goku's "weak energy waves" destroy a planet?

Because, you know.....Silver Surfer has actually done that.

Pointing out when Goku loses doesn't make someone a hater.
Its not that they were pointing out his losses, its just that engame GT goku is omnipotent and immortal. Cant really argue with that.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
I fully agree, so many people dangerously under estimate goku and let logic errors in the series confuse them. Goku is such a badass he frequently beats enemies stronger than he is.

I was trolling the TC by being sarcastic.

This thread has been painful to read. haermm

Its been painful to argue lol.

Originally posted by omgchos
Its not that they were pointing out his losses, its just that engame GT goku is omnipotent and immortal. Cant really argue with that.
I didn't really follow GT, so I can't comment on Goku's level there. That said, this is the world of fiction. There are several "omnipotent" characters, and they all have varying power levels based on feats. Some "gods" can destroy universes and more, and others get beat in anti-climactic battles against X-Force(God Selene).

Originally posted by StyleTime
I didn't really follow GT, so I can't comment on Goku's level there. That said, this is the world of fiction. There are several "omnipotent" characters, and they all have varying degrees of power based on feats. Some "gods" can destroy universes and more, and others get beat in anti-climactic battles against X-Force(God Selene).
Ill admit such characters as say the cytorak in his own universe and that omnipotent character basically meant to be stan lee as a joke are comparible to GT goku. But most of the Goku vs threads are not against such characters.

Most Goku vs threads aren't GT Goku though.

But even say a super sayan 3 goku has faster than light capabilities and is known to create barriers against buu's magic which was extremely powerful stuff.

Goku has never approached c to my knowledge, that's a claim that requires substantial backing.

And it is a far cry from "omnipotent."

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Goku has never approached c to my knowledge, that's a claim that requires substantial backing.
They said it plenty of times in the anime.

Originally posted by omgchos
They said it plenty of times in the anime. Not only can I not recall this, I can recall things that directly contradict it. People racing around the planet and taking minutes for example.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Ignoring the other hilarious parts, when did Goku's "weak energy waves" destroy a planet?

Because, you know.....Silver Surfer has actually done that.

Pointing out when Goku loses doesn't make someone a hater.


Seems pointless to throw insults like that. We're on an online forum talking about DBZ characters. It's effectively one nerd dissing another nerd....for being a nerd. Goku is not a villain genius of course he's never destroyed a planet but it doesn't mean he can't destroy one easier than vegeta and frieza when they were at their weakest. And unlike you I can back up my points about what goku is capable of.

You said his "weak energy waves" can destroy a planet, and provided nothing but speculation as evidence. How is that backing your point?

What did you want me to back up? Silver Surfer blew up Thrun' Da when he fought Ravenous, and he was just releasing energy waves. You want me to post a scan?
Originally posted by StyleTime
If he's actually a fanboy in the typical sense of the word, simply saying "Goku loses" should set him off.
I'd just like to toot my own horn here, as KAIKAGE has proved my point. Heck, I didn't explicitly say "Goku loses", and he's already thrown an insult.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You said his "weak energy waves" can destroy a planet, and provided nothing but speculation as evidence. How is that backing your point?

What did you want me to back up? Silver Surfer blew up Thrun' Da when he fought Ravenous, and he was just releasing energy waves. You want me to post a scan?

I'd just like to toot my own horn here, as KAIKAGE has proved my point. Heck, I didn't explicitly say "Goku loses", and he's already thrown an insult. Someone's a bit touchie, you've done the same thing to me anyway, take your "ignoring the other hilarious parts" comment for example. And how could it ever be more than speculation goku has never blown up a planet, and I said from the right height and range he could, like from orbit which is what vegeta did along the way to earth, and I'm talking about goku's super saiyan form at the end of the cell saga and his normal state from the buu saga onwards. I am sorry anyway for being a bit overly aggressive, just if you're going to say goku can't do something he really should be able to do back it up with more than he's never done it before. And I will give you the silver surfer blowing up a planet since you did back it up with a believable name and event, oh and was the silver surfer in orbit when he did it.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Ignoring the other hilarious parts, when did Goku's "weak energy waves" destroy a planet?

Because, you know.....Silver Surfer has actually done that.

By equivocation, a Goku a bit after Cell Games level Goku could easily destroy this solar system. Cell's Kamehameha, that he was powering up, was enough to blow up the earth:

http://www.mangapark.com/manga/dragon-ball-z/c416/4

Goku passed that level sometime in the 7 years in the afterlife. Likely very shortly thereafter because he not only achieved SSJ2 but he achieved SSJ3.


Oh...look, I used supposed "canon" evidence to support my argument. Despite this fact, the anime is canon, too: just its own canon.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Someone's a bit touchie, you've done the same thing to me anyway, take your "ignoring the other hilarious parts" comment for example. And how could it ever be more than speculation goku has never blown up a planet, and I said from the right height and range he could, like from orbit which is what vegeta did along the way to earth, and I'm talking about goku's super saiyan form at the end of the cell saga and his normal state from the buu saga onwards. I am sorry anyway for being a bit overly aggressive, just if you're going to say goku can't do something he really should be able to do back it up with more than he's never done it before. And I will give you the silver surfer blowing up a planet since you did back it up with a believable name and event, oh and was the silver surfer in orbit when he did it.
Well, no. I commented on your post, not you.

I meant the "weak energy waves" part. I asked when did he do that, and you answered he hadn't but he certainly could. Would you allow that kind of speculation for other characters? If Silver Surfer hadn't demonstrated his power, would you believe he could do what he did?

No, Surfer was not in orbit. I would've posted these earlier, but I thought they were common knowledge by now. I skipped the middle of the fight, so this is just Ravenous's arrival + Surfer blowin' the place up.

http://s8.postimage.org/kwraubi0x/Pic0.jpghttp://s10.postimage.org/4fmk5xk7p/Pic2.jpghttp://s15.postimage.org/nll0djwhz/Pic3.jpghttp://s16.postimage.org/ri6kavysh/Pic4.jpg
Originally posted by dadudemon
By equivocation, a Goku a bit after Cell Games level Goku could easily destroy this solar system. Cell's Kamehameha, that he was powering up, was enough to blow up the earth:

http://www.mangapark.com/manga/dragon-ball-z/c416/4

Goku passed that level sometime in the 7 years in the afterlife. Likely very shortly thereafter because he not only achieved SSJ2 but he achieved SSJ3.


Oh...look, I used supposed "canon" evidence to support my argument. Despite this fact, the anime is canon, too: just its own canon.
I don't follow.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, no. I commented on your post, not you.

I meant the "weak energy waves" part. I asked when did he do that, and you answered he hadn't but he certainly could. Would you allow that kind of speculation for other characters? If Silver Surfer hadn't demonstrated his power, would you believe he could do what he did?

No, Surfer was not in orbit. I would've posted these earlier, but I thought they were common knowledge by now. I skipped the middle of the fight, so this is just Ravenous's arrival + Surfer blowin' the place up.

http://s8.postimage.org/kwraubi0x/Pic0.jpghttp://s10.postimage.org/4fmk5xk7p/Pic2.jpghttp://s15.postimage.org/nll0djwhz/Pic3.jpghttp://s16.postimage.org/ri6kavysh/Pic4.jpg

I don't follow. Well I admit I don't follow the silver surfer comics so I wouldn't have pegged him for being that strong, but it is still more common knowledge that the characters in dragon ball z are planet busters, in fact goku and vegeta were planet busters as far back as the saiyan saga during their fight and the rest of the z fighters attained that level during the frieza saga. And a few of them get infinitely stronger since then, so you shouldn't need to see it to believe it. With the silver surfer I am willing to wager it is not nearly as common a sight because the silver surfer wouldn't blow up a planet with innocent people on it. But I am still not that convinced about how the silver surfer stands against goku because vegeta wasn't in orbit when he was trying to blow up the earth in the saiyan saga he just had to use his ultimate attack the galick gun, so what do you think they were capable of by the end of the gt series when goku and vegeta reached the full potential of super saiyan 4. Maybe at one point the silver surfer was stronger than goku but once he became a super saiyan goku had the advantage, the silver surfer I'd say at best is at frieza's level or even cooler's final form's level, but that's just my opinion I might be wrong, but either way you slice it goku is alot stronger than the silver surfer, depending on which time period of goku your talking about.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, no. I commented on your post, not you.

I meant the "weak energy waves" part. I asked when did he do that, and you answered he hadn't but he certainly could. Would you allow that kind of speculation for other characters? If Silver Surfer hadn't demonstrated his power, would you believe he could do what he did?

No, Surfer was not in orbit. I would've posted these earlier, but I thought they were common knowledge by now. I skipped the middle of the fight, so this is just Ravenous's arrival + Surfer blowin' the place up.

http://s8.postimage.org/kwraubi0x/Pic0.jpghttp://s10.postimage.org/4fmk5xk7p/Pic2.jpghttp://s15.postimage.org/nll0djwhz/Pic3.jpghttp://s16.postimage.org/ri6kavysh/Pic4.jpg

I don't follow.

The point to look at here is that freiza did in fact blow up a planet, not istantaneously but there you have it. At the thend of the Buu saga goku was exponentially more powerfull then when he faught freiza. Therefore blowing up a plent would be like swatting a fly.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't follow.

I don't understand what you don't understand. That post was pretty clear.



One more thing: Goku's power was felt across the entire universe when he powered up to SSJ3: that should send the message even better.



The ability to planet bust was had by characters as far back as dragonball when Roshi blew up the moon.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't understand what you don't understand. That post was pretty clear.



One more thing: Goku's power was felt across the entire universe when he powered up to SSJ3: that should send the message even better.



The ability to planet bust was had by characters as far back as dragonball when Roshi blew up the moon.

I personnally didnt watch dragonball, but didnt piccollo blow the moon up in DBZ? Do they have 2 moons?

Originally posted by omgchos
I personnally didnt watch dragonball, but didnt piccollo blow the moon up in DBZ? Do they have 2 moons?

Moon was magically restored, broseph.


Also, it is great to have you back, Chos. Where the **** were you for about years?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Moon was magically restored, broseph.


Also, it is great to have you back, Chos. Where the **** were you for about years?
Here and there. I came back a couple times and got into stupid arguments with people. Mostly about the star wars prequels. Just kinda got tired of it lol.

Originally posted by omgchos
The point to look at here is that freiza did in fact blow up a planet, not istantaneously but there you have it. At the thend of the Buu saga goku was exponentially more powerfull then when he faught freiza. Therefore blowing up a plent would be like swatting a fly. therein lies the problem with db/z

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Well I admit I don't follow the silver surfer comics so I wouldn't have pegged him for being that strong, but it is still more common knowledge that the characters in dragon ball z are planet busters, in fact goku and vegeta were planet busters as far back as the saiyan saga during their fight and the rest of the z fighters attained that level during the frieza saga. And a few of them get infinitely stronger since then, so you shouldn't need to see it to believe it. With the silver surfer I am willing to wager it is not nearly as common a sight because the silver surfer wouldn't blow up a planet with innocent people on it. But I am still not that convinced about how the silver surfer stands against goku because vegeta wasn't in orbit when he was trying to blow up the earth in the saiyan saga he just had to use his ultimate attack the galick gun, so what do you think they were capable of by the end of the gt series when goku and vegeta reached the full potential of super saiyan 4. Maybe at one point the silver surfer was stronger than goku but once he became a super saiyan goku had the advantage, the silver surfer I'd say at best is at frieza's level or even cooler's final form's level, but that's just my opinion I might be wrong, but either way you slice it goku is alot stronger than the silver surfer, depending on which time period of goku your talking about.
For the record, I believe Goku can probably blow up a planet. I just don't think it'd be as casual as say, when Surfer did it. There are others, like Terrax, that have destroyed planets that easily too.

Yes, Surfer wouldn't blow up a planet with people on it. Thrun'Da was unpopulated because the Badoon there died fighting Annihilus's forces.

I think that Surfer would beat Goku, but I don't want to turn this into Goku vs Surfer.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't understand what you don't understand. That post was pretty clear.

Oh, my fault. It's primarily the Goku can destroy solar systems thing. I wasn't sure how you arrived there.
Originally posted by omgchos
The point to look at here is that freiza did in fact blow up a planet, not istantaneously but there you have it. At the thend of the Buu saga goku was exponentially more powerfull then when he faught freiza. Therefore blowing up a plent would be like swatting a fly.
That's speculation though.

Silver Surfer can do more than bust a planet too; however, I won't speculate as to what his max his. I'm just going by what he's done.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
therein lies the problem with db/z

Originally posted by StyleTime
For the record, I believe Goku can probably blow up a planet. I just don't think it'd be as casual as say, when Surfer did it. There are others, like Terrax, that have destroyed planets that easily too.

Yes, Surfer wouldn't blow up a planet with people on it. Thrun'Da was unpopulated because the Badoon there died fighting Annihilus's forces.

I think that Surfer would beat Goku, but I don't want to turn this into Goku vs Surfer.

Oh, my fault. It's primarily the Goku can destroy solar systems thing. I wasn't sure how you arrived there.

That's speculation though.

Silver Surfer can do more than bust a planet too; however, I won't speculate as to what his max his. I'm just going by what he's done.

Did you not see broly blow up those tiny aliens planet by just flicking a little energy wave at it with hardly any effort at all. And about destroying a solar system super perfect cell said his full power kamehameha wave had the power to destroy the entire solar system. Also there is no way the silver surfer can beat goku, someone who has super saiyan 4 up his sleeve not to mention also the universal spirit bomb that could also be made a whole lot stronger if goku transformed to super saiyan 4 whilst holding the universal spirit bomb, and even by some miracle the silver surfer was stronger than that which I highly doubt goku has proven he has no limits, goku is constantly getting stronger and ascending to new super saiyan levels, so even by some impossibility the silver surfer was stronger than the super saiyan 4 goku 100 years after the defeat of omega shenron goku would eventually surpass the silver surfer, but that's under the assumption the silver surfer is anywhere near that strong.

Remind him that Goku gets slapped around by Chi Chi.

Surfer > Goku.

Originally posted by UltraSapienWolf
Remind him that Goku gets slapped around by Chi Chi. And I guess I have to remind you that Goku stays powered down during every day life to probably that of a normal human, it is also proven in one of the dragon ball z special episodes when tarble vegeta's younger brother arrives and tests Goku's power level with his scouter and it start's out at 5 and then starts increasing by 100,000,000 times or more. And do you really think Goku would raise a hand to Chi Chi, he isn't so pathetic and immature as to power up whenever Chi Chi gets angry.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Surfer > Goku. Nice argument you really changed my mind.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Did you not see broly blow up those tiny aliens planet by just flicking a little energy wave at it with hardly any effort at all. And about destroying a solar system super perfect cell said his full power kamehameha wave had the power to destroy the entire solar system. Also there is no way the silver surfer can beat goku, someone who has super saiyan 4 up his sleeve not to mention also the universal spirit bomb that could also be made a whole lot stronger if goku transformed to super saiyan 4 whilst holding the universal spirit bomb, and even by some miracle the silver surfer was stronger than that which I highly doubt goku has proven he has no limits, goku is constantly getting stronger and ascending to new super saiyan levels, so even by some impossibility the silver surfer was stronger than the super saiyan 4 goku 100 years after the defeat of omega shenron goku would eventually surpass the silver surfer, but that's under the assumption the silver surfer is anywhere near that strong.
Goku isn't Broly though, and Cell's statement was a statement with more speculation backing it.

As for the Surfer vs Goku thing, Silver Surfer has better feats. It makes sense that I'd pick him over Goku.

Silver Surfer would qualify as pure of heart, so I don't think the spirit bomb would work.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Goku isn't Broly though, and Cell's statement was a statement with more speculation backing it.

As for the Surfer vs Goku thing, Silver Surfer has better feats. It makes sense that I'd pick him over Goku.

Silver Surfer would qualify as pure of heart, so I don't think the spirit bomb would work. Goku could probably absorb the energy of the univeral spirit bomb into his super saiyan 4 body or at least enough of it to get the job done, and my other points are still valid, Goku greatly surpassed broly once the buu saga began not only did he himself become much stronger but he also had the ability to transform to super saiyan 2 and 3 then by the gt saga he had become infinitely stronger, it was shown that goku's base form or at least his super saiyan 1 form was as strong as majin buu on top of that he could transform up to super saiyan 4 which was then made alot stronger when he took the energy from super saiyans goten, trunks and gohan and not to mention pan, so goku by then will be able to destroy a planet infinitely easier than broly. And what makes you think that cell couldn't back up his statement he never did it because super saiyan 2 gohan countered it and overpowered it, and what makes you think the surfer's feats are better, I have seen perfect cell stop a mountain sized asteroid with one hand and shattering it with out flinching, plus super saiyan 3 goku and kid buu's fight was tearing apart an entire planet with the shock waves of their blows and the collisions to the ground. What can the silver surfer do that goku can't.

StyleTime sticking to his guns eh?

Originally posted by omgchos
StyleTime sticking to his guns eh? Tell me about it, it's really hard to drill this into his head, this is the first time I've met a silver surfer fanboy. I'm starting to think he's never watched dragon ball z and gt, or at least it's been a while.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Tell me about it, it's really hard to drill this into his head, this is the first time I've met a silver surfer fanboy. I'm starting to think he's never watched dragon ball z and gt, or at least it's been a while.
He did say his recollection wasnt clear, but it has nothing to do with that. He wont follow logic either. Just keeps jerking off silver surfer to qualify his arguments.

Originally posted by omgchos
I find it a waste of time to use goku in any vs thread. Not only is he ridiculously overpowered, this is what it always amounts to. You get the people who dont like DBZ underrating goku and those of us who like DBZ try to explain is Overpoweredness. And isnt trolling a good way to get you suspended? At the end of it all youre just repeating yourself until the thread dies.

I've read the entire DBZ manga more times than you've brushed your teeth.

Goku would be trashed by the Silver Surfer, much less Thanos or Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I've read the entire DBZ manga more times than you've brushed your teeth.

Goku would be trashed by the Silver Surfer, much less Thanos or Dark Phoenix.
So youv'e read it once?

Its not so much the argument of silver surfer vs goku we were having. Just that from the GT standpoint he was basically god. I never read the manga myself so i dont pretend to be an expert. Im fairly sure GT wasnt part of the manga> was it. Or am i just ignorant lol. And is this thanos with the infinity gauntlet. Because otherwise goku stomps him IMO. I dont know enough about silver or phoenix. I was more pointing out that most of the time peole downgrade goku, and it comes doen to fanboyism. Much as in most threads.

GT was not part of the manga, no. And frankly using it would be foolish, considering how inconsistent and silly it is.

Thanos at base can damn near kill the Silver Surfer with like six punches, shatter a planet physically while fighting with Drax (While Goku can obviously bust a planet, he has no feats to suggest his physical might is nearly planetary), is durable enough to soak Goku's best attacks (His showing against Odin demonstrates this), and whatnot.

Speed is iffier because Marvel speed is inconsistent, Thor for example ranges from being slower than Wolverine to blitzing Skyfathers.

I was actually researching this the other day, and since you rad the manga maybe you know. did DBZ burst speed ever approach light speed. I remember things vaguely from the anime.

In the manga, no, that was never really made clear.

The fastest I've ever seen them really quantified is mach 29,000. for characters Mystic Gohan level and up.

thats millions of mph. Is thanos near that fast?

He's fought characters who can exceed it, but at the same time been outsped by Captain America.

In which case it gets to inconsistent to say conclusively then. Did his power upscale throughout the comics? I mean it seems like the slower version might have been say back in the day when he was newly created.

Originally posted by NemeBro
GT was not part of the manga, no. And frankly using it would be foolish, considering how inconsistent and silly it is.

Thanos at base can damn near kill the Silver Surfer with like six punches, shatter a planet physically while fighting with Drax (While Goku can obviously bust a planet, he has no feats to suggest his physical might is nearly planetary), is durable enough to soak Goku's best attacks (His showing against Odin demonstrates this), and whatnot.

Speed is iffier because Marvel speed is inconsistent, Thor for example ranges from being slower than Wolverine to blitzing Skyfathers. GT is full of logic errors and disappointing fighting displays but the theory is sound and whether you like it or not it is still a part of the story. And is all that Thanos you said could do without the help of any infinity gems like the power gem, plus are you sure thanos could take the universal spirit bomb wielded by a super saiyan 4 goku.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Goku could probably absorb the energy of the univeral spirit bomb into his super saiyan 4 body or at least enough of it to get the job done, and my other points are still valid, Goku greatly surpassed broly once the buu saga began not only did he himself become much stronger but he also had the ability to transform to super saiyan 2 and 3 then by the gt saga he had become infinitely stronger, it was shown that goku's base form or at least his super saiyan 1 form was as strong as majin buu on top of that he could transform up to super saiyan 4 which was then made alot stronger when he took the energy from super saiyans goten, trunks and gohan and not to mention pan, so goku by then will be able to destroy a planet infinitely easier than broly. And what makes you think that cell couldn't back up his statement he never did it because super saiyan 2 gohan countered it and overpowered it, and what makes you think the surfer's feats are better, I have seen perfect cell stop a mountain sized asteroid with one hand and shattering it with out flinching, plus super saiyan 3 goku and kid buu's fight was tearing apart an entire planet with the shock waves of their blows and the collisions to the ground. What can the silver surfer do that goku can't.
Like I said, I never followed GT. I can't really comment on that Goku.

I think Surfer's feats are better because they are better. For example, I just showed you Surfer blowing up a planet fairly casually. Goku did not replicate that feat.

....so it's a better feat.
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Tell me about it, it's really hard to drill this into his head, this is the first time I've met a silver surfer fanboy. I'm starting to think he's never watched dragon ball z and gt, or at least it's been a while.
I defended Silver Surfer because I saw some inaccuracies that needed correcting. If you want to see some Surfer fanboys, visit the comic vs forum.
Originally posted by omgchos
He did say his recollection wasnt clear, but it has nothing to do with that. He wont follow logic either. Just keeps jerking off silver surfer to qualify his arguments.
I posted things Surfer actually did. That is jerking him off now?

As I've said before, you guys are speculating. It leads to problems.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
GT is full of logic errors and disappointing fighting displays but the theory is sound and whether you like it or not it is still a part of the story.

No it isn't. It is not a part of manga canon, which is primary canon, and sucks total ass.



Absolutely.

I'm sure that Thanos by feats can casually overpower Super Saiyan 4 Goku with one finger, the same Goku who struggled to lift half a city.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Like I said, I never followed GT. I can't really comment on that Goku.

I think Surfer's feats are better because they are better. For example, I just showed you Surfer blowing up a planet fairly casually. Goku did not replicate that feat.

....so it's a better feat.

I defended Silver Surfer because I saw some inaccuracies that needed correcting. If you want to see some Surfer fanboys, visit the comic vs forum.

I posted things Surfer actually did. That is jerking him off now?

As I've said before, you guys are speculating. It leads to problems.

Its a train of logic. Power levels exponentially increase as the anime progresses. But you seem to be following the logic that just because goku never blew up a planet that he cant do it with relative ease. Even tho fodder characters like freiza could do it. At the end Of DBZ Goku was at least 20 million times stonger/faster than he was at super sayain when he aught freiza.

SSJ3 Goku had a power level of 24,000,000,000 apparently, compared to the 150,000,000 when he first went SSJ.

So, that's 160 times his power as a SSJ.

160 =/= 20,000,000.

Originally posted by NemeBro
SSJ3 Goku had a power level of 24,000,000,000 apparently, compared to the 150,000,000 when he first went SSJ.

So, that's 160 times his power as a SSJ.

160 =/= 20,000,000.
Thats just a lack of stats on my part i never looked up specific power levels. I always assumed he was much higher at Super Sayain 3. But either way you slice it blowing up a planet is hardly a challenge for him.

U know nemebro, im getting tired of always wrecking me at arguments. Im just gonna give the nod and step away from this, lol.

You have to understand that there is a titanic difference between blowing up Mercury or even Earth, and blowing up, say, Jupiter.

Let alone something like the sun.

Well those arent planets. Ones a star and ones a gas giant. Doesnt it have almost no density either.

Originally posted by omgchos
Its a train of logic. Power levels exponentially increase as the anime progresses. But you seem to be following the logic that just because goku never blew up a planet that he cant do it with relative ease. Even tho fodder characters like freiza could do it. At the end Of DBZ Goku was at least 20 million times stonger/faster than he was at super sayain when he aught freiza.
I get that its a train of logic. I'm pointing out that this logic doesn't point to anything quantifiable. It's mostly useless outside of the series itself.

For example, say Goku's powerlevel is 24,000,000,000. What does this mean in exact terms? Can he bust a planet? A solar system? A galaxy? The universe?(Some people do make that claim.)

We're just speculating since Goku hasn't come anywhere near that.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I get that its a train of logic. I'm pointing out that this logic doesn't point to anything quantifiable. It's mostly useless outside of the series itself.

For example, say Goku's powerlevel is 24,000,000,000. What does this mean in exact terms? Can he bust a planet? A solar system? A galaxy? The universe?(Some people do make that claim.)

We're just speculating since Goku hasn't come anywhere near that.
I never made the solar system claim. I dont see the universe thing happening...... shit is infinite lol, unless were talking the GT thing here but that still would be a huge claim. All i know is if 150,000,000 can destroy a planet thats peanuts to 24 billion.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I get that its a train of logic. I'm pointing out that this logic doesn't point to anything quantifiable. It's mostly useless outside of the series itself.

For example, say Goku's powerlevel is 24,000,000,000. What does this mean in exact terms? Can he bust a planet? A solar system? A galaxy? The universe?(Some people do make that claim.)

We're just speculating since Goku hasn't come anywhere near that. How many times must I say it just because he has never done it doesn't mean he can't, goku has greatly surpassed people who have destroyed planets and including one who can destroy a solar system with one blast. So are you saying that if goku could blow up planets and a solar system he would do it, goku's the hero remember. I'm sorry mate but you have lost this argument, I've even got others backing me up here so give it up, all you've got is he's never done it before which is a crap argument, there is a difference between speculation and obvious logic. 24,000,000,000 is a super saiyan 3 power level correct, and how far ahead is that from the saiyan saga's vegeta who was shown blowing up a planet from a blast with two fingers, but of course goku at super saiyans 1 to 4 despite all the training making himself constantly stronger and greatly stronger with time still can't destroy planets and solar systems just because he has never done it what kind of logic is that mr styletime.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You have to understand that there is a titanic difference between blowing up Mercury or even Earth, and blowing up, say, Jupiter.

Let alone something like the sun. I seem to remember cooler in his final form threatening to extinguish the sun to get at goku and his friends when he was blasted in it's direction.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No it isn't. It is not a part of manga canon, which is primary canon, and sucks total ass.



Absolutely.

I'm sure that Thanos by feats can casually overpower Super Saiyan 4 Goku with one finger, the same Goku who struggled to lift half a city. So now your paying attention to the logic errors in GT just because it fits your argument. I've been looking around and it seems you may be right about thanos but if he was that strong how did he lose to the avengers, only at the end of the world war hulk story could the hulk duplicate what thanos did to that planet. But I am still unsure how he would fair against goku after all perfect cell said himself he may be strong and have power but whats the point against someone with his speed which goku infinitely surpasses, heck raditz was shown to be faster than the speed of light when he dodged piccolo's special beam cannon, plus it has been stated from the fight between super saiyan goku and frieza that they are not as easily destroyed as a planet and again goku becomes infinitely stronger since then.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
So now your paying attention to the logic errors in GT just because it fits your argument. I've been looking around and it seems you may be right about thanos but if he was that strong how did he lose to the avengers, only at the end of the world war hulk story could the hulk duplicate what thanos did to that planet. But I am still unsure how he would fair against goku after all perfect cell said himself he may be strong and have power but whats the point against someone with his speed which goku infinitely surpasses, heck raditz was shown to be faster than the speed of light when he dodged piccolo's special beam cannon, plus it has been stated from the fight between super saiyan goku and frieza that they are not as easily destroyed as a planet and again goku becomes infinitely stronger since then. You mean that horrible fight scene where Thanos fought the guardians of the galaxy and avengers, and pretty much any hero they could find? Horrible showing for Thanos. His worst, ever, explained by comic fans as just Thanos getting 'Bendis'd'

Originally posted by NemeBro
SSJ3 Goku had a power level of 24,000,000,000 apparently, compared to the 150,000,000 when he first went SSJ.

So, that's 160 times his power as a SSJ.

160 =/= 20,000,000.

That (24 billion) doesn't exist as a canon fact, anywhere.

And based on the logarithmic calculation I did, it's much much more powerful than that. That should make sense because Vegeta's power at just 18,000-20,000 (I don't remember) could be felt planet wide. Goku's could be felt across the universe at SSJ3. The distances are absurd, by that point.

Goku's ki could be felt in Dai Kaio's planet (which is located in another dimension IIRC) not across the entire universe.

Originally posted by omgchos
I never made the solar system claim. I dont see the universe thing happening...... shit is infinite lol, unless were talking the GT thing here but that still would be a huge claim. All i know is if 150,000,000 can destroy a planet thats peanuts to 24 billion.
I know you didn't make those claims. I'm just pointing out where that logic usually leads. 24 billion is 160 times larger thant 150 million, but it doesn't equate to some across the board stat increase by that same number.

Basically, they don't get 160 times stronger, faster, more durable, etc.

I mean, planet destroying blasts are still a big deal even during the Buu saga. If the Z fighters were really wrecking worlds with "weak energy waves" by then.... well you know where I am going with that.
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
How many times must I say it just because he has never done it doesn't mean he can't, goku has greatly surpassed people who have destroyed planets and including one who can destroy a solar system with one blast. So are you saying that if goku could blow up planets and a solar system he would do it, goku's the hero remember. I'm sorry mate but you have lost this argument, I've even got others backing me up here so give it up, all you've got is he's never done it before which is a crap argument, there is a difference between speculation and obvious logic. 24,000,000,000 is a super saiyan 3 power level correct, and how far ahead is that from the saiyan saga's vegeta who was shown blowing up a planet from a blast with two fingers, but of course goku at super saiyans 1 to 4 despite all the training making himself constantly stronger and greatly stronger with time still can't destroy planets and solar systems just because he has never done it what kind of logic is that mr styletime.
Read above. Also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta blowing up Arlis(or whatever the name was) was a filler episode.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That (24 billion) doesn't exist as a canon fact, anywhere.

And based on the logarithmic calculation I did, it's much much more powerful than that. That should make sense because Vegeta's power at just 18,000-20,000 (I don't remember) could be felt planet wide. Goku's could be felt across the universe at SSJ3. The distances are absurd, by that point. It is in the Daizenshuu, which IIRC is, indeed, canon.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
I seem to remember cooler in his final form threatening to extinguish the sun to get at goku and his friends when he was blasted in it's direction.

I truly do not care what a noncanon character said in a noncanon movie.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
So now your paying attention to the logic errors in GT just because it fits your argument. I've been looking around and it seems you may be right about thanos but if he was that strong how did he lose to the avengers, only at the end of the world war hulk story could the hulk duplicate what thanos did to that planet. But I am still unsure how he would fair against goku after all perfect cell said himself he may be strong and have power but whats the point against someone with his speed which goku infinitely surpasses, heck raditz was shown to be faster than the speed of light when he dodged piccolo's special beam cannon, plus it has been stated from the fight between super saiyan goku and frieza that they are not as easily destroyed as a planet and again goku becomes infinitely stronger since then.

So now?

In literally my second post since this retarded argument started, I mentioned that.

Try to keep up, and do endeavor towards getting on my level.

That was probably Thanos's absolute lowest showing ever. And at least one guy there, Thor, could wreck Goku on his own.

The "Raditz is faster than the speed of light thing" isn't just exclusive to the anime, but it is exclusive to that specific dub, the original Japanese did not have that line. lolnoncanon

Infinitely? Please stop this.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I truly do not care what a noncanon character said in a noncanon movie.



So now?

In literally my second post since this retarded argument started, I mentioned that.

Try to keep up, and do endeavor towards getting on my level.

That was probably Thanos's absolute lowest showing ever. And at least one guy there, Thor, could wreck Goku on his own.

The "Raditz is faster than the speed of light thing" isn't just exclusive to the anime, but it is exclusive to that specific dub, the original Japanese did not have that line. lolnoncanon

Infinitely? Please stop this. Someone is getting too big for his boots, and I can't tell you how sick I am of this canon non canon crap that term is used by fans who notice differences between movies and the series or between the series and the manga or between the english or american version and the japanese and use that to run away from feats or lines you don't like. And the term infinitely was just an expression for him getting vastly stronger, you would have noticed that if you weren't so desperate to make yourself feel big and superior. And I hope you were talking about thor with the odin force or the power gem because otherwise your off your rocker if you think a thor with no enhancements can beat goku, I would only just give you thanos but thor come on now your just getting silly. If your going to take part in a versus thread you have got to understand and respect both sides which you clearly don't. And by the way a super saiyan 4 level fight would theoretically result the same way the fight between thanos and drax did because back when super saiyan 3 goku was fighting kid buu their fight was tearing apart the supreme kai planet so after 16 years of intense training and six of those spent training himself and uub goku's base form equalled majin buu and after that he reached super saiyan 4, so it does make sense that super saiyan 4 fight at least by the time goku turned the tables on syn shenron would be at least capable of duplicating thanos's fight with drax, the only reason a super saiyan 4 fight didn't do that is because that would automatically make it game over with no atmosphere to breathe in and the planet goku was fighting to save would be gone just like that, so the makers made sure that doesn't happen for the sake of the storyline just like they did with the fight between thanos and the avengers. But of course someone as biased as you wouldn't agree with me just because you prefare marvel to dragon ball z and gt.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It is in the Daizenshuu, which IIRC is, indeed, canon.

It is not.

Originally posted by stargun
Goku's ki could be felt in Dai Kaio's planet (which is located in another dimension IIRC) not across the entire universe.

That idea has been debunked. King Kai felt it as well: well within this dimension but still across the dragonball universe.

In addition, the Kai's realm my be a different dimension, but it is physically reachable by instant transmission. Also, the image going around shows the kai's world being, literally, across the universe.


So, you're making a case for why it is such an absurd power: it was felt not only across the universe but an entirely different dimension.

I'm still confused by that. SSJ3 Goku's power was felt across the entire universe yet Mystic Gohan's wasn't. Yet Mystic Gohan is supposed to be>>>SSJ3 Goku right.

Not saying it's wrong but it just doesn't make sense so if anyoen could explain that weird case to me I'd be good.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm still confused by that. SSJ3 Goku's power was felt across the entire universe yet Mystic Gohan's wasn't. Yet Mystic Gohan is supposed to be>>>SSJ3 Goku right.

When Gohan tried to go Super Saiyan, it didn't start to shake apart the whole Kai planet.

The SSJ3 form just seems different. Think of it like Bleach:

Mystic Gohan is like Ichigo's Bankai form: all of that power compressed and focused in a compact form.

SSJ3 Goku is like Kenpachi without his eyepatch: overflowing with absurd amounts of power that cannot be contained.

And, I'd say SSJ3 Goku is roughly equal to Mystic Gohan with Gohan getting a slight edge. In the anime, SSJ3 Goku did better against Fused Super Buu than Mystic Gohan. Some say that is due to Goku's greater martial arts experience. I say it may be possible that Goku's power in SSJ3 is potentially greater than Mystic Gohan's.



Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Not saying it's wrong but it just doesn't make sense so if anyoen could explain that weird case to me I'd be good.

I think I did a good job.

Put Thanos in a thread against them and leave the rest to Quan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That idea has been debunked. King Kai felt it as well: well within this dimension but still across the dragonball universe.

In addition, the Kai's realm my be a different dimension, but it is physically reachable by instant transmission. Also, the image going around shows the kai's world being, literally, across the universe.


So, you're making a case for why it is such an absurd power: it was felt not only across the universe but an entirely different dimension. That's not enough to prove Goku's power was felt everywhere in the Universe. We would need to see someone standing at the farthest place in the DB Universe from Earth taking notice of Goku's ki in order to prove your theory.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
But of course someone as biased as you wouldn't agree with me just because you prefare marvel to dragon ball z and gt.
I am like....95% sure he prefers DBZ to any comic. Iirc, DBZ is one of Nemebro's favorite things ever actually.

Does it count if its physical location isn't in the universe?

And wasn't it felt by ki-sensitive guys like the Kai's?

Originally posted by StyleTime
I am like....95% sure he prefers DBZ to any comic. Iirc, DBZ is one of Nemebro's favorite things ever actually.

Well actually I do think he might prefer some comics more. I'm pretty sure Superman is above the DBZ guys for his favorite characters of all time.

But I've never asked.

Plus i would trust a fan more if he tells me his character loses in most cases.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Someone is getting too big for his boots,

I am above you in every regard, insipid insect. Get on my level.



Stop whining. You mewl like a child.



There are inconsistencies.

If you really want to go this route, do you want me to dig up FSSJ Goku crying out in pain from elephants stepping on his hand?

You're the lowest kind of DBZ fanboy. You're not even using an anime feat, you're using a line that only exists in that particular English dub, not only was it not intended by Toriyama, it wasn't even intended by those who ran the anime.



I don't have to make myself "feel" superior to you. I already am.



Thor could physically overpower Goku with on hand.



I've been reading DBZ longer than you've been jerking to it on thisboard.



Holy shit, learn how to use a period.

And no. SSJ4 Goku struggled to support the weight of half a city. But you believe he could physically smash a planet? How comical.



You know, I wasn't even going to grace you with a reply, until I saw this quoted in StyleTime's post.

Do some ****ing research before you say shit you don't know about.

**** Marvel, I couldn't give a damn about most Marvel comics or heroes, Thor being one exception, and even then I prefer Goku and DBZ in general more.

I actually wish that SS4 did something spectacular in GT. Base Goku in GT was already as strong as SS3-Goku at the end of Z, so SS4 could have at least done some FTL or Star-busting feats

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am above you in every regard, insipid insect. Get on my level.



Stop whining. You mewl like a child.



There are inconsistencies.

If you really want to go this route, do you want me to dig up FSSJ Goku crying out in pain from elephants stepping on his hand?

You're the lowest kind of DBZ fanboy. You're not even using an anime feat, you're using a line that only exists in that particular English dub, not only was it not intended by Toriyama, it wasn't even intended by those who ran the anime.



I don't have to make myself "feel" superior to you. I already am.



Thor could physically overpower Goku with on hand.



I've been reading DBZ longer than you've been jerking to it on thisboard.



Holy shit, learn how to use a period.

And no. SSJ4 Goku struggled to support the weight of half a city. But you believe he could physically smash a planet? How comical.



You know, I wasn't even going to grace you with a reply, until I saw this quoted in StyleTime's post.

Do some ****ing research before you say shit you don't know about.

**** Marvel, I couldn't give a damn about most Marvel comics or heroes, Thor being one exception, and even then I prefer Goku and DBZ in general more. Oh my god you just proved my point about you, you are a serious egomaniac who isn't afraid of tearing down people like me for having a different interpretation of dragon ball z and gt, and do you honestly think that calling me an insipid insect isn't pathetic. And have some dignity dude, you think researching all that stuff about dragon ball z and gt is something to be proud of, thats why you think your superior to me in every regard you complete saddo. Its people like you that ruin threads for people and turn them bitter, we are both dragon ball z, gt and marvel fans, can't you at least respect that. And can you back up your claim that thor could beat goku with one hand with something other than logic errors in the series, preferably with a feat of thor's without the help of the odin force or power gem.

And its funny how you ignored what I said the reason was for a super saiyan 4 level fight not duplicating what thanos and drax's fight resulted in even though they theoretically could.

Yeah, thats actually a pretty accurate statement

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well actually I do think he might prefer some comics more. I'm pretty sure Superman is above the DBZ guys for his favorite characters of all time.

But I've never asked.
You dare doubt me? sneer

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Oh my god you just proved my point about you, you are a serious egomaniac who isn't afraid of tearing down people like me for having a different interpretation of dragon ball z and gt, and do you honestly think that calling me an insipid insect isn't pathetic.

I honestly think that you insulted me first and are now desperately trying to claim the moral victory, when it is plain as day (Even to you) that I have claimed the intellectual victory.



Your jimmies seem thoroughly russled. You should truly try to, indeed, get on my level.



You've bashed StyleTime without any provocation in this thread, despite the fact that Style was nothing but respectful to you, and uncaring of the fact that he is one of those alleged internet males who is really a female IRL that posts as a male to keep themselves from getting harassed.

Shame.



I said he could physically overpower him.

And yes. Thor physically lifted the Midgard Serpent, which was wrapped around Earth, by armwrestling Hercules, he nearly tipped Earth off its axis, etc.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I honestly think that you insulted me first and are now desperately trying to claim the moral victory, when it is plain as day (Even to you) that I have claimed the intellectual victory. Well that's all debateable.



Your jimmies seem thoroughly russled. You should truly try to, indeed, get on my level. Self praise, I just don't like being belittled and made to feel small just for having a perfectly reasonable opinion. I respect that you have your own opinion, so don't insult me for mine just show me the same respect.



You've bashed StyleTime without any provocation in this thread, despite the fact that Style was nothing but respectful to you, and uncaring of the fact that he is one of those alleged internet males who is really a female IRL that posts as a male to keep themselves from getting harassed.

Shame. And I sincereley apologised when I got too aggressive, I was sorry.



I said he could physically overpower him.

And yes. Thor physically lifted the Midgard Serpent, which was wrapped around Earth, by armwrestling Hercules, he nearly tipped Earth off its axis, etc. Thats the problem with some characters they can't decide their upper limits, they keep changing them. Like with superman, at one version or timeline, the silver age I think, he pulled an entire twelve planets linked together by a collossul chain to the other side of the universe, the physical strength and speed that would take is beyond belief. But then they toned him way down and just had his powers evolve over time. Oh by the way I don't know if you noticed but I tried to do what you did and respond to different parts of the message, but I unfortunetly failed, so look at the text added to yours.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You dare doubt me? sneer

Well yeah cause I verified that I was correct. :P

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Thats the problem with some characters they can't decide their upper limits, they keep changing them.

To separate quotes

Like with superman, at one version or timeline, the silver age I think, he pulled an entire twelve planets linked together by a collossul chain to the other side of the universe, the physical strength and speed that would take is beyond belief. But then they toned him way down and just had his powers evolve over time.

Do as I have done

Oh by the way I don't know if you noticed but I tried to do what you did and respond to different parts of the message, but I unfortunetly failed, so look at the text added to yours.

Only don't space the area between u and o in "quote".

Like so:

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Thats the problem with some characters they can't decide their upper limits, they keep changing them.

Get on



my level



*****.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
That's just a stupid GT logic error, remember this is one of the reasons people hate GT the characters don't live up to their reputation and level.

SS4 Goku has the best strength feat that has ever existed in dragon ball history.

Lifting up a city from a few miles below ground. And then IIRC, his fight with Super 17 was taking place all over the planet within seconds.

GT has superior Strength and Speed feats to DBZ. They just have really shit ki blasts.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
SS4 Goku has the best strength feat that has ever existed in dragon ball history.

Lifting up a city from a few miles below ground. And then IIRC, his fight with Super 17 was taking place all over the planet within seconds.

GT has superior Strength and Speed feats to DBZ. They just have really shit ki blasts. Well to be honest a super saiyan 4's physical strength should be capable of a lot more, and they never shown any real speed until super saiyan 4 gogeta shown up, I'd say the greatest speed was shown in the fight against frieza's final form and mecha frieza, and when super saiyan goku and super saiyan 2 gohan where fighting perfect cell, and when fat buu was fighting super saiyan 3 goku and finally when super buu with gohan absorbed was fighting super vegito.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Well to be honest a super saiyan 4's physical strength should be capable of a lot more

Explain why.



No speed feat rivals the Super Android 17 speed feat, which finally brought Goku and friends to relativistic levels.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Explain why.



No speed feat rivals the Super Android 17 speed feat, which finally brought Goku and friends to relativistic levels. Well if you follow the power level guide super saiyan 3 goku should be able to lift around 12,000,000 tons, and it has been stated a few times that GT's base goku is on majin buu's level, so by an ascended super saiyan 4 in the gt series goku should be capable of lifting tens of billions of tons, and thats if he doesn't use a new level of super kaioken. Oh and if you don't know about super kaioken super saiyan goku used it when he was fighting pikkon in the otherworld tournement. Oh and where you as confused as I was when majuub's attack did nothing to super 17 but super saiyan 1 kid goku's attacks appeared to knock the wind out of him.

Power Levels don't scale like that, and I don't think there is a PL for SS3 Goku.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Power Levels don't scale like that, and I don't think there is a PL for SS3 Goku. Well I never paid attention to those power levels because they didn't match the difference each transformation made and they were never mentioned in the series, and they do have a power level for super saiyan 3 goku it was
about 1.1billion, which I never believed. And well how many tons do you think goku could lift when his power level was 340?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Put Thanos in a thread against them and leave the rest to Quan.

^THIS ALL DAY!

Well... This thread demonstrates EXACTLY why mixing DBZ and comic related material is hardly ever a good idea. Bottom line, people can't agree on what should and shouldn't be used or on what is or isn't reality.

I do however, think the majority of issues stem from the pro-comic side's mindset for hypocritical argumentation shortly followed by DBZ fans and their inability to clearly state their arguments.

The biggest neutral problem with these discussions involves simple plot holes though... it really does.

The problem is that DBZ characters were written into plot hole city the minute that Radditz showed up, power levels were introduced and there was never a stated or suggested cap on how destructive their abilities could be. And, with characters like Cell and King Cold making statements about blowing up solar systems, the writing seemed to dictate quite the opposite. This immediately causes conflict with people who argue via power levels and power scaling (which was an established plot point in the story and entirely acceptable) and people who argue strictly based on feats with no regard for what the power levels implied or what the characters necessarily couldn't do because of the limitations for story's sake (i.e. the majority of it taking place on Earth).

When people are in favor of comic book heroes, they typically do not pull from the middle of the road. They want to argue about their characters *best* feats which is understandable. The problem here is that comic book characters regularly do things WAYYYYYYYYYYY outside of their typical range, representation, and power-set for (again) the sake of the story and are thus also wrapped in plot holes.

If you want to argue for comic characters at the top of their game in feats, then it's only fair to use DBZ characters at the top of their game in power scaling (unrestricted by CIS, or plot's sake). If you want to argue against DBZ characters because of a low-end feats, then low-end feats should then be fair game and applicable to both sides.

As a Wolverine fan, I've seen this crazy pro-comic argumentation over and over again. Fans have argued that Wolverine could not cut through characters like Namor, Hulk, Thor, or Colossus because he only scored a glancing blow when he tried, ignoring the fact that Wolverine's claws HAVE to be nerfed for the sake of the story to keep characters alive because when he doesn't, in alternate timelines, or in instances they can be healed etc, he's cut right through every one of these guys like butter.

To me, this is the same thing as someone arguing that Hulk or Superman aren't *that* strong because they don't typically do even city busting collateral damage in the majority of their Earth based/plot centric fights. While that's true, they don't, it's an argument that's disingenuously ignoring what we really know about their strength levels.

Now.....

People want to talk about how Silver Sufer is faster than light and pretend he fights that fast just because he travels that fast.
They want to talk about how he's a planet buster and ignore the fact that he's been knocked off a building by Spider-Man, arm-barred by Black Panther, and knocked unconscious by farmers with a hammer.
They want to talk about how Thor's battled Hercules and lifted (A PORTION OF) the Midgard Serpent but ignore the fact that he's been left defensless by a Spiderman blitz, nearly killed by Crusader, and knocked out by a bullet to the head.
They want to discuss Thanos being a match for Odin or defending himself against Tyrant but don't want to discuss how Rogers outpaced him in h2h, or Gamora broke his jaw in a sparring contest.
oooorrrrrr....
How Wonder Woman was nearly upstaged by Deathstroke in cqc, Batman's dodged superman and his heat vision, Flash gets taken out with boomerangs etc etc...

Or the fact that handbooks are consistently WILDLY inaccurate in the comic world never mind Shonen data-books.

But alternately, when it concerns GOKU! They want to talk about how he had trouble lifting 40 tons but ignore the fact that he was pushing a massive 60-600 ton boulder through the Earth as a small child with a PL under 100.

My interpretation of DBZ: Power Levels and power scaling matter. You CAN NOT discuss these characters and ignore that fact while maintaining any small shred of credibility.

Usng Kaio-Ken, Goku definitively proved that an increase in power level had a direct effect on speed, strength, and power output altogether.

The anime and manga both have numerous examples of how even a moderate increase in PL had an adverse effect between 2 opponents. Zarbon for example, showed that a small increase in PL made him a completely lopsided opponent with a person who was beating (EASILY) him just moments before. So arguing that Goku with a PL of 50 is *only* twice as strong, fast, and powerful as when he had a PL of 25 isn't only generous *against* Goku but likely incredibly inaccurate.

Just because Wolverine didn't cut Punisher in half when they fought doesn't mean he can't and anyone who thinks the opposite is drinking some pretty potent Koolaid to put it politely, the same way that anyone who thinks Goku isn't at planet/multi-planet busting level by the end of the Freiza saga alone is much under the same hollow-headed level of stupidity.

If we are going to argue based on feats alone, then be aware that the feats produced by DBZ characters are pretty much put under the premise of plot hole induced low showings from the start of the series and while Goku has plenty of low showings within the context of his own character fighting other super humans on his own level he doesn't get made to look foolish by any latex wearing peak human heroes... and frankly, there's not many comic characters that can say the same.


Oh and one last thing.. DBZ characters were screaming holes out of dimensions by the end of the series. How convincing can an argument be made against DBZ characters when you're stuck talking about lifting power? lol

This is how i got into this thread, and you made a much more articulate standpoint i must say. Mine was only a paragraph, lol.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Well I never paid attention to those power levels because they didn't match the difference each transformation made and they were never mentioned in the series, and they do have a power level for super saiyan 3 goku it was
about 1.1billion, which I never believed. And well how many tons do you think goku could lift when his power level was 340?
Theres never been an official PL for anything after the Namek saga besides a suppressed Trunks and movie characters. It can be assumed based on proper scaling, but nothing official has been stated.

Couldn't say how much he could lift, cant remember any lifting feats.

Originally posted by jinzin
Derp Nope.jpg

Uh.... huh...... lol

Originally posted by stargun
That's not enough to prove Goku's power was felt everywhere in the Universe.

Only "ki sensitives" would be able to feel it so, yes, you're correct: very few would have been able to feel it.




Originally posted by stargun
We would need to see someone standing at the farthest place in the DB Universe from Earth taking notice of Goku's ki in order to prove your theory.

King Kai felt it: that is enough. Gohan also felt it in an entirely different dimension: that's even worse.


So you've done nothing to dispel the idea that a SSJ3 Goku is absurdly powerful.

absurdly powerful...if your not majin buu...burn

Power Scaling via power levels is unreliable because they stopped being used by the writer himself as we get later in to DBZ.

He realized the problems that would have arisen.

Notice how at first as well, that Super Saiyan transformation was supposed to give you a 50x boost in power level, but as we go in the series the difference it makes in a fight seems moderate at best, like maybe a 2 to 3x increase in capability.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Only "ki sensitives" would be able to feel it so, yes, you're correct: very few would have been able to feel it.


There's no way to know if even the Kais or anyone else in DB for that matter could feel it from any point in the Universe.

Originally posted by dadudemon
King Kai felt it: that is enough. Gohan also felt it in an entirely different dimension: that's even worse.


So you've done nothing to dispel the idea that a SSJ3 Goku is absurdly powerful. It's not, unless King Kai was standing at the other end of the Universe on that occasion.

And no, interdimensional feats like this one are kind of unquantifiable as we don't know how much physical space Goku's ki would've crossed until reaching to Dai Kaio's planet where Gohan was training. That only really shows a property ki has of bypassing dimensional boundaries when it's big enough.

And I never said Goku isn't powerful.

Originally posted by stargun
There's no way to know if even the Kais or anyone else in DB for that matter could feel it from any point in the Universe.

Except for the fact that King Kai felt it as did the others on the Kai's holy planet.

Originally posted by stargun
It's not, unless King Kai was standing at the other end of the Universe on that occasion.

He was: the map based on the description Toriyama gave shows the Kai's planets (as is the holy Kai planet) as far away as possible from earth.

Originally posted by stargun
And no, interdimensional feats like this one are kind of unquantifiable as we don't know how much physical space Goku's ki would've crossed until reaching to Dai Kaio's planet where Gohan was training. That only really shows a property ki has of bypassing dimensional boundaries when it's big enough.

Incorrect: it was felt both across the universe and into another dimension. That is directly quantifiable.

Originally posted by stargun
And I never said Goku isn't powerful.

I never said you said that Goku is not powerful.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Notice how at first as well, that Super Saiyan transformation was supposed to give you a 50x boost in power level, but as we go in the series the difference it makes in a fight seems moderate at best, like maybe a 2 to 3x increase in capability.

That is not true.

I dunno, I felt that the difference between even a FSSJ and a SSJ2 was a pretty signifigant one, much less a basic SSJ.

Gohan went from fighting a gradually losing battle against Perfect Cell to being capable of curbstomping multiple Perfect Cells (Cell Jrs are equal in power).

Originally posted by NemeBro
I dunno, I felt that the difference between even a FSSJ and a SSJ2 was a pretty signifigant one, much less a basic SSJ.

Gohan went from fighting a gradually losing battle against Perfect Cell to being capable of curbstomping multiple Perfect Cells (Cell Jrs are equal in power).

Well, Goku was marginally weaker than Perfect Cell yet he fought on even ground and even won against Cell (due to technique, not power). Had Goku known of Cell's regenerative abilities, he could have easily finished off the ass and legs. lol

Why did Goku not know of Cell's regenerative abilities?

Did Vegeta and Trunks just sort of neglect to tell him about them?

I mean seriously, he pulled the exact same ****ing trick with Vegeta.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why did Goku not know of Cell's regenerative abilities?

Did Vegeta and Trunks just sort of neglect to tell him about them?

I mean seriously, he pulled the exact same ****ing trick with Vegeta.

I think the idea was that the head had to be destroyed. A Namek cannot regenerate the head, iirc. So they thought it was done. They didn't know about Cell's new and improved over Namekian physiology, though. Had Goku known that, he could have quickly blasted the last bits.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except for the fact that King Kai felt it as did the others on the Kai's holy planet.



He was: the map based on the description Toriyama gave shows the Kai's planets (as is the holy Kai planet) as far away as possible from earth .



Incorrect: it was felt both across the universe and into another dimension. That is directly quantifiable.



I never said you said that Goku is not powerful. If we were to believe in the map's visual representation the whole DB-verse would be smaller than our Solar System in real life, not even as big as the infamous four-galaxies figure.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/4100/fanoyofullfrm2fb17ebyq4.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think the idea was that the head had to be destroyed. A Namek cannot regenerate the head, iirc. So they thought it was done. They didn't know about Cell's new and improved over Namekian physiology, though. Had Goku known that, he could have quickly blasted the last bits. Once more: Vegeta and Trunks already knew that.