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Manchester Black
Hat
Menagerie
Coldcast

Vs

Guardian
Sasquatch
Shaman
Snowbird


Teams fight in character

No bfr


Who wins?

Alpha Flight in a murder stomp.

No.

Originally posted by dmills
Alpha Flight in a murder stomp.

I don't think it'd be a stomp... it may actually be very close.

Manchester could definitely pull off a mind-whammy to mess up the team, and Hat vs Shaman basically comes down who can pull out the biggest magical mojo out of their respective accessories...

Snowbird is the wildcard here however. The fight really comes down to which form she takes right off the bat...

Whatever form she takes, Coldcast stops her in her tracks like he did Superman.

I doubt Coldcast could stop her higher up forms. It's very likely Guardian and Vindciator have greator control over the EM-spectrum them him.

Regardless Shaman could just say "shush" or turn their organs into crystals with one wave of his hand. The real only threat is Manchester, but majority of the team have TP defense or have telepathy themselves. Shaman for instance has communicated across planets with his telepathy. If he could get past their defenses then they could potentially win, but as mentioned they have TP defenses themselves.

How powerful a mage is Hat?

Originally posted by nwg202
How powerful a mage is Hat?

He has human limitations (has to breathe etc), but otherwise...he can apparently pull anything he wants out of the hat.

Basically a copy of Shaman without the high end feats (Shaman has)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He has human limitations (has to breathe etc), but otherwise...he can apparently pull anything he wants out of the hat.

Can he teleport? can he put up shields? Interesting, I wonder if he is an ultra powerful glass canon.

Originally posted by nwg202
Can he teleport? can he put up shields? Interesting, I wonder if he is an ultra powerful glass canon.

Yah, he has rune shields, I *think* he can teleport, but then they may have just been using their version of the Authority's doors to move around....but I'm pretty sure he can.

Teleport yes, but shields? I don't think so, but would have to double check

Edit: or were they teleporting due to tech?

Originally posted by nwg202
Can he teleport? can he put up shields? Interesting, I wonder if he is an ultra powerful glass canon.
His shield prevent any physical harm to him.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Teleport yes, but shields? I don't think so, but would have to double check

Edit: or were they teleporting due to tech?

Def has shields, which seemed strong enough to keep Superman out. And yes, I think they used tech, abhi might know though.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I doubt Coldcast could stop her higher up forms. It's very likely Guardian and Vindciator have greator control over the EM-spectrum them him.

Regardless Shaman could just say "shush" or turn their organs into crystals with one wave of his hand. The real only threat is Manchester, but majority of the team have TP defense or have telepathy themselves. Shaman for instance has communicated across planets with his telepathy. If he could get past their defenses then they could potentially win, but as mentioned they have TP defenses themselves.
I doubt TP-blockers would stop manchester from blowing their brains out or giving them a stroke. Also coldcast has stopped superman via electrons manipulation, I doubt snowbird would fare any better.

Would TP blockers also work against Menagerie's brain control bugs?

Besides, Ches managed to mind wipe Doomsday. That's pretty hardcore.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Would TP blockers also work against Menagerie's brain control bugs?

Besides, Ches managed to mind wipe Doomsday. That's pretty hardcore.
Not just mindwipe, he altered his entire programming. 'Chester is one of the most powerful telepaths out there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I doubt TP-blockers would stop manchester from blowing their brains out or giving them a stroke. Also coldcast has stopped superman via electrons manipulation, I doubt snowbird would fare any better.

I would, plus they have magical defenses and high power telepathy themselves. and? Guardian and Vindicator were used to power Galactus' technology

So he could take control over a magical being or a skyfather form? Also a high level shapeshifter that can constantly alter her form changing her strcture

K-M, you're the (obvious) expert here on AF - what's their internal durability like? Blood capillaries, that sorta thing?

Snowbird and Sasquatch have a healing factor. Walter has shown to heal his internal organs in seconds when Vision was phasing in him and attacking him. Snowbird can heal instantly with her "healing glow"

Vindicator is human durability with a high powered E-M shield, which an E-M sword that matched Wolverine's claws shattered against her

Guardian is human currently (I believe) with a better shield then Heather (he and Guardian III contained a nuke explosion). He was a cyborg that was built to take out Galactus, but I THINK he is back to being full human since his rebirth. Also can shut people's brains down
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/alpha_flight_93_Mac.jpg

Shaman has human durability, but has high powered shields and lots of healing spells.

Reason why I asked, was Ches was squeezing and destroying the blood vessels in Superman's head - like little tubes of concrete, he said.

So if Ches tried that on AF, with their human level blood vessels (and through their shields?) then Snowbird and Sasquatch are the only ones left. Even Shaman could (potentially) be taken out, once he forgets all his spells and is given a stroke.

I doubt she is going to get past their shields, I don't see how she could.

Also it was Blackthat that said that and it was done via telekinesis. Which Guardian has ways to turn brains off (previous page) or turn off telepathy or TK getting passed the shields?

Blocks the powerful Headlok's telepathy
1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-17.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-20.jpg*

*not sure if that's a strict Cyborg Guardian ability

Originally posted by -K-M-
I would, plus they have magical defenses and high power telepathy themselves. and? Guardian and Vindicator were used to power Galactus' technology

So he could take control over a magical being or a skyfather form? Also a high level shapeshifter that can constantly alter her form changing her strcture
And? You think they can match manchester in telepathy? Both brainiac and j'onn have failed to control doomsday and manchester did it without any trouble. Superman powered miracle machine, you're going wrong way by using high end feats. Also shape-changing stops getting your electrons manipulated?Originally posted by -K-M-
Snowbird and Sasquatch have a healing factor. Walter has shown to heal his internal organs in seconds when Vision was phasing in him and attacking him. Snowbird can heal instantly with her "healing glow"

Vindicator is human durability with a high powered E-M shield, which an E-M sword that matched Wolverine's claws shattered against her

Guardian is human currently (I believe) with a better shield then Heather (he and Guardian III contained a nuke explosion). He was a cyborg that was built to take out Galactus, but I THINK he is back to being full human since his rebirth. Also can shut people's brains down
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/alpha_flight_93_Mac.jpg

Shaman has human durability, but has high powered shields and lots of healing spells.
So does superman who healed from a kryptonite sword to the heart in seconds. Healing factor doesn't stop from getting your brain blown out. I doubt guardian and vindicator's shields are better than superman's then bio-aura.

Shaman's field stops TK? Scans?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? You think they can match manchester in telepathy? Both brainiac and j'onn have failed to control doomsday and manchester did it without any trouble. Superman powered miracle machine, you're going wrong way by using high end feats. Also shape-changing stops getting your electrons manipulated?

So does superman who healed from a kryptonite sword to the heart in seconds. Healing factor doesn't stop from getting your brain blown out. I doubt guardian and vindicator's shields are better than superman's then bio-aura.

Shaman's field stops TK? Scans?

Nope, but hold off so they can attack...you betcha. Actually yeah, because their forms keeps changing matter manipulation has shown to be diffucult to control. Even SNowbird has used that as a defense

When did he heal from a sword attack through the heart? and his bio-aura is also with his skin durability.

Yeah, and he can stop all motion if he wanted. He also has TK himself.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight12-20.jpg

Also you constantly asking me to provide scans even in other threads is annoying when you don't.

I seiously don't see Coldcast stoping her Tundra or other god forms or even this...

---------------------------------------------
Pantheon of Gods
----------------------------------------------
Incredible Hercules #119 (Vol.1) :
Here the God Squad get to the Skrull Gods palace, but it is being guarded by pantheons of Gods from 978 past and present Imperial Worlds that the Skrulls have took over. The team is completely outnumbered and outgunned as even Demorgorge the God Eater was struggling fighting them. It was Snowbird taking the form of Neooqtoq a Great Beast and was taking them all on by herself

1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg14.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg15.jpg
3. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg16.jpg
4. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg18.jpg
5. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg19.jpg
6. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg20.jpg
7. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg21.jpg
8. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg22.jpg

Guardian and Vindicator were the only ones who could power Galactus tech even when Sersi, Windshear, Box, Quasar, Her, etc. were there. Mac and Heather's skill with the E-M is incredible. Guardian has even shut off Doom II's shields in a split second.
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #100 (Vol.1) or Alpha Flight Special - 4/4
After Galactus was defeated he decided to make a deal, but required both Guardian and Vindicator to sacrifice their lives to do it and in turn save billions of lives on Qurlln and on Earth. Mac saves Heather, but doesn't die he actually appears again alive and well as Anti-Guard in AF #129

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-31.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-33.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-34.jpg
4. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-35.jpg
5. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-36.jpg
6. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-37.jpg

Alpha Flight wins.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Nope, but hold off so they can attack...you betcha. Actually yeah, because their forms keeps changing matter manipulation has shown to be diffucult to control. Even SNowbird has used that as a defense

When did he heal from a sword attack through the heart? and his bio-aura is also with his skin durability.

Yeah, and he can stop all motion if he wanted. He also has TK himself.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight12-20.jpg

Also you constantly asking me to provide scans even in other threads is annoying when you don't.
I doubt it frankly. Superman has one of the most formidable TP defenses and manchester was toying with his mind, he even switched his mind with bizarro's. Matter manipulation=/=nerve pulse manipulation.
Superman/Batman 19.

So, its strong enough to crack a moon in half? Or stop a blitzing superman in his tracks?

He can do that, sure but manchestar can also give him a stroke before he can utter a word. Its a matter of who strikes first.

I only ask scans because I haven't read AF. With you I'm sure you've read most of what I'm talking about, so I generally don't need to show proofs.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Alpha Flight wins.
I'm inclined to agree because Elite lack feats, but its not a stomp.

and? I'm not even convinced he gets past their shields. Bio-aura is far different then an actually energy/magic shields and also against people who can block or shut off telepathy manipulating nerve signals just like M can do.

His TK? never had to display crazy levels for it as he has never needed to as he has far more powerful spells. Actually Shaman's Void can and could destroy the Universe if he wanted to. Forget moon.

Doubt it especailly he has to get past magical shields and E-M spread that could block telepathy. Only M stands a chance the rest are fodder and don't see him stoping Snowbird, Shaman, Vindicator and Guardian at the same time.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm inclined to agree because Elite lack feats, but its not a stomp.

Definetly not.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Snowbird and Sasquatch have a healing factor. Walter has shown to heal his internal organs in seconds when Vision was phasing in him and attacking him. Snowbird can heal instantly with her "healing glow"

Vindicator is human durability with a high powered E-M shield, which an E-M sword that matched Wolverine's claws shattered against her

Guardian is human currently (I believe) with a better shield then Heather (he and Guardian III contained a nuke explosion). He was a cyborg that was built to take out Galactus, but I THINK he is back to being full human since his rebirth. Also can shut people's brains down
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/alpha_flight_93_Mac.jpg

Shaman has human durability, but has high powered shields and lots of healing spells.

wtf he was built to take out galactus?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
wtf he was built to take out galactus?

yes....and did. Keep in mind G was weakened and being in the dimension was messing with him, but the combined might of Sersi, Her, Quasar, Hercules, Windshear, Vindicator II, Box v4 couldn't take him out and Guardian one-shot him

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-27.jpg

Alpha Flight #100 explanation of the aliens rebuilding him as a failsafe against Galactus.
1. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/Alpha_Flight_v1_100_08.jpg
2. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/Alpha_Flight_v1_100_09.jpg
3. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/Alpha_Flight_v1_100_10.jpg

Here's how he ended up on Juptier's moon
1. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AlphaFlight90-06.jpg
2. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AlphaFlight90-07.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
Definetly not.
Glad we agree. I again read Action 775, man what a comic? Its one of the best comics of all time.

It is, and I wish they didn't kill Black off later on. He was a good character

The cartoon movie of it was pretty darn awesome too.

Originally posted by -K-M-
It is, and I wish they didn't kill Black off later on. He was a good character

The cartoon movie of it was pretty darn awesome too.
They totally butchered his character in JLE.

Yeah, a willing to kill superman is scary and awesome.

A fully unleashed Superman is definetly a scary thing. Good thing we don't see it often or there wouldn't really be much stories for him.

Originally posted by -K-M-
A fully unleashed Superman is definetly a scary thing. Good thing we don't see it often or there wouldn't really be much stories for him.
Totally agree.