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Just saw Skyfall, and it's the best Bond film ever! The main antagonist, Silva, beared some similarities to Batman's nemesis, the Joker, so I decided to make this matchup!

So it's...

The Joker (The Dark Knight) armed with aregular handgun.

vs

Tiago Rodriguez AKA Raoul Silva (Skyfall) also armed with a regular handgun.

(Just a mini-setup, though may contain spoilers...)

Silva grabs M's hand and tries to to convince her to shoot herself and Silva with the same bullet, when suddenly, a shot comes throught the window and kills M.

"Bastard! She was mine, Bond!" yells Silva (Assuming he missed and killed M instead of him).

A shadow emerges, but it's not that of Bond...

"Let me show you a magic trick..."

And so the battle begins! Who will win?

What?

The title is Sherlock Holmes v Zorro.

And now it's Silva v Joker?

Joker gets shot in the face because Silva was a highly trained MI6 agent, while Joker was just a crazy guy who got shit done.

Also, Sherlock would have won against Zorro.

lolzz

Joker dies

Raoul.

He'll win in any scenario.

Geez a thread already.....

Damnnnn.....I can't wait for this freakin movie!

Originally posted by KingD19
What?

Joker gets shot in the face because Silva was a highly trained MI6 agent, while Joker was just a crazy guy who got shit done.

silva wus a agent yes but not a 00 he wus a Cyber agent did a lot of work on a laptop so he did not have 00 traineing.

He was still a trained MI6 agent. And unless I'm wrong, even desk agents get defense and weapons training. It's standard issue.

Originally posted by KingD19
He was still a trained MI6 agent. And unless I'm wrong, even desk agents get defense and weapons training. It's standard issue.
maybe they get basic training im not sure we do know silva wus a bit better with a gun thin joker so id say with a gun silva wins with out just HTH joker puts a new smile on silvas face if its silvas and hes goons vs joker and hes goons id put money on joker he seemd to have more guys and better prep.

Better prep? Did you see what Silva did in Skyfall?

I'd say the entire Coleman Reese/Hospital gambit just so he could get close to Dent was better than any prep Silva showed.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I'd say the entire Coleman Reese/Hospital gambit just so he could get close to Dent was better than any prep Silva showed.

I'd say the whole bomb MI6 so they go to a different location which Silva already knew about and prepped then get captured under false pretense and already have a complex escape plan which among other things had an explosion and passing train timed perfectly in order to get M right where he wanted her surpasses Joker's Dent plan.

But that's just me.

I would say the joker intentionally getting himself captured just so he could distract bats and the gcpd from saving dent and Rachel, then escaping using a piece of glass, just so he could mindrape harvey later in an even more convoluted hospital bomb plot, surpasses Silva's plan. Joker could have probably killed M at the hearing without having to use any tech whatsoever, given how he killed the judge and the commissioner. I'd say his plot to assassinate the mayor outranks Silva's plot.

But that's just me.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I would say the joker intentionally getting himself captured just so he could distract bats and the gcpd from saving dent and Rachel, then escaping using a piece of glass, just so he could mindrape harvey later in an even more convoluted hospital bomb plot, surpasses Silva's plan. Joker could have probably killed M at the hearing without having to use any tech whatsoever, given how he killed the judge and the commissioner. I'd say his plot to assassinate the mayor outranks Silva's plot.

But that's just me.

Yeah, it's just you.

And every other logical thinking person on the planet

Nope. It's just you. We agreed.

How is the Joker going to beat a guy with superior psychic powers? The guy predicted when and where everything would happen, and when and how everyone would react. Down to the second. Joker has good timing, but Silva's clairvoyant.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How is the Joker going to beat a guy with superior psychic powers? The guy predicted when and where everything would happen, and when and how everyone would react. Down to the second. Joker has good timing, but Silva's clairvoyant.

Bull. The Reese/ hospital bomb plot was absolutely insane. No human being could have predicted everyone's actions like Joker did in that scenario.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Bull. The Reese/ hospital bomb plot was absolutely insane. No human being could have predicted everyone's actions like Joker did in that scenario.
Which actions are you specifically referring to?

He finds out Coleman is going to reveal Batman's identity. He plants a bomb in a hospital and threatens to blow it unless Reese dies. This is a diversion so he can use the panic to sneak into Dent's room, mindrape Dent into not killing him (and Dent had every reason to) and going on a rampage, escape, and take the newsreporters hostage, to reveal that the hospital bomb was just a diversion of itself to panic the citizens to get on the boats. He has 5 different plans, all of which are convoluted as hell and have no guarantee of success (as Dent could have just killed him), going off perfectly without a hitch simultaneously.

As I said, could the joker have assassinated M if he so chose? Most def. Could Silva create all the destruction joker created in Gotham? Hells no.

Originally posted by Lestov16
He finds out Coleman is going to reveal Batman's identity. He plants a bomb in a hospital and threatens to blow it unless Reese dies. This is a diversion so he can use the panic to sneak into Dent's room, mindrape Dent into not killing him (and Dent had every reason to) and going on a rampage, escape, and take the newsreporters hostage, to reveal that the hospital bomb was just a diversion of itself to panic the citizens to get on the boats. He has 5 different plans, all of which are convoluted as hell and have no guarantee of success (as Dent could have just killed him), going off perfectly without a hitch simultaneously.

As I said, could the joker have assassinated M if he so chose? Most def. Could Silva create all the destruction joker created in Gotham? Hells no.

-Coleman went on a public TV show, so that wasn't hard to deduce.

-People fleeing from a supposed bomb area isn't some masterstroke of planning. It's what would be expected.

-People getting on a boat (especially since traffic was jammed) trying to flee a city under the grip of a lunatic is also expected.

-The Dent thing just happened to work and it was a lame part of the story with just how easily Dent was turned. Took all of 5 minutes.

Of note: Joker's boat-bomb plan failed, neither boat pulled the trigger. Even turning Dent evil ultimately backfired, since Batman and Gordan pulled off their ruse and Dent died a hero.

Ergo, Silva wins this.

We don't know how the people's morale would have changed had Bruce not saved Reese. So had Reese died and the people's morale gone down, the boat situation may have ended differently.

Too bad his plan did work when Gotham found out about Harvey in TDKR and acted exactly as lawless as Joker predicted

You haven't proven how Raoul did anything more cunning that what Joker pulled off throughout the film. I can prove Joker could have assassinated M. You can't prove Silva could have terrorized Gotham on a joker-level.

Originally posted by Lestov16
We don't know how the people's morale would have changed had Bruce not saved Reese. So had Reese died and the people's morale gone down, the boat situation may have ended differently.

Too bad his plan did work when Gotham found out about Harvey in TDKR and acted exactly as lawless as Joker predicted

You haven't proven how Raoul did anything more cunning that what Joker pulled off throughout the film. I can prove Joker could have assassinated M. You can't prove Silva could have terrorized Gotham on a joker-level.

People in the boats didn't pull the trigger, period. Joker failed there.

LoL. That was because the city was under siege by Bane and locked down by the military. They also rallied at the end.

Except I did, his entire plan > Joker's.

LOL Silva's plan was no where near the Joker's.

Silva knew exactly where MI6 would relocate, exactly when Bond would catch him, where he'd be imprisoned, when M's hearing was, when Q would accidentally release him, when and where Bond would catch up to him, and when that train would pass by. All these impossibly timed steps meant to culminate in one single event. That's not perfect timing, that's psychic farsight. Everything lines up perfectly and it makes no sense unless he's psychic. Or if the movie isn't that great.



Joker's psychic powers aren't too obvious. He has great timing and a great sense of deduction, but nothing he did was impossible to predict. Most of the time he was the one determining the time things would happen--when Batman and Gordon leave the police station, when the cell phone bomb would go off, when the panic over Reese and the hospitals would begin. He initiated those at his own choosing and logically deduced the reaction it would have. It was a very good deduction, but not psychic.


And that's why the Joker's a far superior movie villain. As good as he is, he's not omniscient, and he still makes mistakes and misjudges. Silva didn't f*ck up once, he just got outgunned. That's boring.

Originally posted by Lestov16
LOL Silva's plan was no where near the Joker's.

Agreed. It was utterly above and beyond it in scope and ingenuity.

Silva had to come up with an overly-convoluted plan to do something that the Joker could do in his sleep.

Note that for all the needless over-convoluted crap, Silva's plan was basically just a rip-off of Joker's mayor assassination plan.

Originally posted by Lestov16
He finds out Coleman is going to reveal Batman's identity. He plants a bomb in a hospital and threatens to blow it unless Reese dies. This is a diversion so he can use the panic to sneak into Dent's room, mindrape Dent into not killing him (and Dent had every reason to) and going on a rampage, escape, and take the newsreporters hostage, to reveal that the hospital bomb was just a diversion of itself to panic the citizens to get on the boats. He has 5 different plans, all of which are convoluted as hell and have no guarantee of success (as Dent could have just killed him), going off perfectly without a hitch simultaneously.

As I said, could the joker have assassinated M if he so chose? Most def. Could Silva create all the destruction joker created in Gotham? Hells no. Yes he could have and did so. He turned a whole city into a ghost-town with a few keystrokes on his laptop.

Joker got outfoxed by one man with so-so detective skills, Raoul beat a freaking spy agency and predicting all their movements years in advance. And he's implied to be as good as Bond in hand to hand.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Yes he could have and did so. He turned a whole city into a ghost-town with a few keystrokes on his laptop.

Did he have the citizens terrified to the point that they were questioning their own humanity?


Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Joker got outfoxed by one man with so-so detective skills,

Whoa. Did you just downplay Batman?

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Raoul beat a freaking spy agency and predicting all their movements years in advance. ,

Exactly. Silva took years to prep. Joker came up with his plan on the fly and still caused more destruction and anarchy than Silva ever did.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
And he's implied to be as good as Bond in hand to hand.

Joker was no slouch. And we don't go off assumptions.

how is over power two guards off screen implieing he is as good as Bond?

I only vaguely remember Skyfall, but if I remember correctly, they mention that Silva was better at his job than Bond, but when Mi6 disavowed him and he got tortured it messed up his psyche. Am I making this up, or did that happen?

M said he was one of the best MI6 agents on record, but he did something to piss off China I think, and she gave him to them to placate them. And the torture combined with his cyanide pill not working drove him to revenge.

M is a *****.

It was a ****ed up thing but the right call.

That's what she wants you to believe.

better at his job on a laptop im sure but no way is he better 100% thin bond.

Joker loses in a straight up fight/shootout and it's pretty spitey. Planning tho... Idk. If Silva didn't have computers would he have been anywhere near as effective? Joker did all his plans without the leg-up cyberspace offers.

This is a straight up close confrontation battle with hand guns!

Not some planned long drawn out mastermind assault on each other.

Silva wins this. No contest.

Originally posted by the ninjak
This is a straight up close confrontation battle with hand guns!

Not some planned long drawn out mastermind assault on each other.

Silva wins this. No contest.

I know and agree but the thread has turned into a "better planner contest" for some reason

Originally posted by juggerman
I know and agree but the thread has turned into a "better planner contest" for some reason

Then they need to make another thread.

Covering the location of the opponents and scenario.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Then they need to make another thread.

Covering the location of the opponents and scenario.

They did in the OP. It's in that church at the end of Skyfall and Joker shows up instead of Bond. So strictly a gun2gun/hand2hand type deal.

Originally posted by juggerman
They did in the OP. It's in that church at the end of Skyfall and Joker shows up instead of Bond. So strictly a gun2gun/hand2hand type deal.

I meant in regards to a planned mastermind fight.

I doubt if both parties were aware of each other such a confrontation would eventuate.

The Joker wouldn't spend some of his stolen cash to fly securely to a remote church in Scotland just to kill some rogue MI6 agent. If anything he'll try to enlist Silva to his cause. Just to cause widespread panic.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I meant in regards to a planned mastermind fight.

I doubt if both parties were aware of each other such a confrontation would eventuate.

The Joker wouldn't spend some of his stolen cash to fly securely to a remote church in Scotland just to kill some rogue MI6 agent. If anything he'll try to enlist Silva to his cause. Just to cause widespread panic.

Ah gotcha

Originally posted by juggerman
Joker loses in a straight up fight/shootout and it's pretty spitey. Planning tho... Idk. If Silva didn't have computers would he have been anywhere near as effective? Joker did all his plans without the leg-up cyberspace offers.

agree on joker loses in a gun fight but H2H i dont see feats puting silva over joker.

Gun2Gun, I think Silva wins. Joker, as we have seen, likes to recruit people that he thinks could be good for dinking around and creating chaos. I think he'd try to have a chat with Silva

Silva has no such qualm. To him, Joker is just something that happens to be in a way, something he sees no purpose for... and what does Silva do when he has no purpose for something?

Oh, yeah.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Gun2Gun, I think Silva wins. Joker, as we have seen, likes to recruit people that he thinks could be good for dinking around and creating chaos. I think he'd try to have a chat with Silva

Silva has no such qualm. To him, Joker is just something that happens to be in a way, something he sees no purpose for... and what does Silva do when he has no purpose for something?

Oh, yeah.

Exactly.
Originally posted by the ninjak
I meant in regards to a planned mastermind fight.

I doubt if both parties were aware of each other such a confrontation would eventuate.

The Joker wouldn't spend some of his stolen cash to fly securely to a remote church in Scotland just to kill some rogue MI6 agent. If anything he'll try to enlist Silva to his cause. Just to cause widespread panic.

In which case Silva will have none of that and will proceed to shoot the Joker in the head. Dent couldn't.....Silva will.


Nice to see you in these vs threads as well. I'll like to see more of ya