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dafuq?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
dafuq?

Catholics

What the holy ****.

They're supposed to, and have, provided terminations when they've been needed.

It's just ******* doctors living in the past that can't get over themselves.

This is the same place where, if a woman goes to a clinic to get the morning after pill, some doctors will actually try to convince them not to do it.

They give Catholics a bad name.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What the holy ****.

Indeed.

disgusting.

and these bible thumpers wonder why atheism is spreading so rapidly.

I'm against abortion but if the fetus inside is going to die anyway and it's going to kill it's holder, the doctors should've realized they could've saved at least one life that day. I understand it's hard to make the choice to remove the fetus since it's alive but causing a double kill isn't any better.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I understand it's hard to make the choice to remove the fetus since it's alive but causing a double kill isn't any better.

How is it an any shape or form hard? The doctors had already declared that the fetus was dying and there's really no way a 17 (22 seems to be around the limit) week fetus could survive outside the womb, barring some "it was the mother's womb that was the issue" argument.

Scenarios:

1) Dead fetus and live mother

2) Dead fetus and dead mother

Choice seems painfully easy to me.

Originally posted by Robtard
How is it an any shape or form hard? The doctors had already declared that the fetus was dying and there's really no way a 17 (22 seems to be around the limit) week fetus could survive outside the womb, barring some "it was the mother's womb that was the issue" argument.

Scenarios:

1) Dead fetus and live mother

2) Dead fetus and dead mother

Choice seems painfully easy to me.

I know. What I'm trying to say is that those doctors are complete idiots.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I know. What I'm trying to say is that those doctors are complete idiots.

Ah, must have mistook your meaning then.

but what if baby jesus was going to perform a miracle?

remember terry schaivo?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
disgusting.

and these bible thumpers wonder why atheism is spreading so rapidly.

They're actually not bible-thumpers. In the slightest. It's an outdated set of morals that don't fit with today's world. And it's a minority.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
but what if baby jesus was going to perform a miracle?

remember terry schaivo? The one George W. Bush tried to save from the liberals?

Originally posted by -Pr-
They're actually not bible-thumpers. In the slightest. It's an outdated set of morals that don't fit with today's world. And it's a minority.

Originally posted by focus4chumps


Being catholic doesn't make you a bible-thumper. I already clarified the distinction.

This is worse than Rick Santorum saying that rape babies are gifts from God and that he wouldn't let even his daughter get an abortion if she herself got raped:
jL47RxsUsU4
Originally posted by Robtard
Catholics
You summed it up perfectly.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Being catholic doesn't make you a bible-thumper. I already clarified the distinction.

I'm curious where these Catholic people get their "abortion = murder", "a fetus is a human life" etc morals from then?

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm curious where these Catholic people get their "abortion = murder", "a fetus is a human life" etc morals from then?

Like I said, it's an outdated morality. This comes from years of the church being involved in affairs they have no right to be.

There's a difference between being backwardly moral and being a bible thumper, imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Being catholic doesn't make you a bible-thumper. I already clarified the distinction.

im sorry then. my bad. if allowing a woman to needlessly die because of theocratic rule and against the better judgement of any competent physician is not classified under 'bible thumper', then i'm truly clueless on the whole matter of thumping bibles, i suppose.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
im sorry then. my bad. if allowing a woman to needlessly die because of theocratic rule and against the better judgement of any competent physician is not classified under 'bible thumper', then i'm truly clueless on the whole matter of thumping bibles, i suppose.

It hasn't been a theocracy in years, assuming it ever was.

Ireland is just behind the times when it comes to legislation. Very behind the times.

I'm not associated with any religious faction and I still find abortion to be morally wrong but if the fetus is already dying and is going to kill the woman, there really aren't a lot of options are there?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I'm not associated with any religious faction and I still find abortion to be morally wrong but if the fetus is already dying and is going to kill the woman, there really aren't a lot of options are there?

Apparently those muppets who call themselves doctors thought otherwise.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It hasn't been a theocracy in years, assuming it ever was.

Ireland is just behind the times when it comes to legislation. Very behind the times.

the source of their legislation is Catholicism. irish catholics are not a minority and the problem here is not divorced from religion, but directly influenced by the catholic church. just because they dont run around calling themselves a theocracy doesnt mean that they are not governed in part by the pope.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/ Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201%20web%2072dp
i.pdf (page 42)

roughly 87% catholic. hardly a minority.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Apparently those muppets who call themselves doctors thought otherwise.

To be fair, it's still illegal to perform an abortion in Ireland; so those doctors where officially following the law. We have no idea how they personally felt about it.


"In 1992, Ireland’s Supreme Court ruled that abortion should be allowed if the mother’s life was in danger but the law has never been changed, forcing thousands of women to travel abroad for terminations every year."

and

"This was an obstetric emergency which should have been dealt with in a routine manner,” she said. “Yet Irish doctors are restrained from making obvious medical decisions by a fear of potentially severe consequences.”

Originally posted by Robtard
To be fair, it's still illegal to perform an abortion in Ireland; so those doctors where officially following the law. We have no idea how they personally felt about it.


"In 1992, Ireland’s Supreme Court ruled that abortion should be allowed if the mother’s life was in danger but the law has never been changed, forcing thousands of women to travel abroad for terminations every year."

and

"This was an obstetric emergency which should have been dealt with in a routine manner,” she said. “Yet Irish doctors are restrained from making obvious medical decisions by a fear of potentially severe consequences.”

I see. I was under the impression that abortions in Ireland were legal if the mother's life is in danger. Goddamn, but this is even worse...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the source of their legislation is Catholicism. irish catholics are not a minority and the problem here is not divorced from religion, but directly influenced by the catholic church. just because they dont run around calling themselves a theocracy doesnt mean that they are not governed in part by the pope.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/ Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201%20web%2072dp
i.pdf (page 42)

roughly 87% catholic. hardly a minority.



i didn't say irish catholics are a minority. I am an irish catholic. I know we're the majority. I'm talking about the group of catholics who still cling to an outdated morality.

They don't listen to the pope though. This is a country where our own leader publicly slammed the pope:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/07/21/enda-kenny%E2%80%99s-attack-on-the-vatican-reflects-ferocious-public-anger/

Originally posted by Robtard
To be fair, it's still illegal to perform an abortion in Ireland; so those doctors where officially following the law. We have no idea how they personally felt about it.


"In 1992, Ireland’s Supreme Court ruled that abortion should be allowed if the mother’s life was in danger but the law has never been changed, forcing thousands of women to travel abroad for terminations every year."

and

"This was an obstetric emergency which should have been dealt with in a routine manner,” she said. “Yet Irish doctors are restrained from making obvious medical decisions by a fear of potentially severe consequences.”

Which is sad, as I personally know an irish doctor who's performed that very procedure.

it's that thing in ireland where you only follow the law when you get told enough times to do it.

Some doctors, like I said, are just dipshits when it comes to this kind of thing.

Originally posted by Robtard
To be fair, it's still illegal to perform an abortion in Ireland; so those doctors where officially following the law. We have no idea how they personally felt about it.


"In 1992, Ireland’s Supreme Court ruled that abortion should be allowed if the mother’s life was in danger but the law has never been changed, forcing thousands of women to travel abroad for terminations every year."

and

"This was an obstetric emergency which should have been dealt with in a routine manner,” she said. “Yet Irish doctors are restrained from making obvious medical decisions by a fear of potentially severe consequences.”

If I was a doctor who got fired for saving a life in a situation like that then &*%# the system. I'd rather risk my job than allow someone to die and that's what doctors should be thinking. Those guys should be fired anyway just for being wimpy morons.

Originally posted by -Pr-


i didn't say irish catholics are a minority. I am an irish catholic. I know we're the majority. I'm talking about the group of catholics who still cling to an outdated morality.


They don't listen to the pope though. This is a country where our own leader publicly slammed the pope:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/07/21/enda-kenny%E2%80%99s-attack-on-the-vatican-reflects-ferocious-public-anger/



displaying outrage over the vatican ignoring acts of abomination
does not disprove the majority belief in catholic law. american catholics are outraged over the vatican's covering up of child molestations by priests. that doesnt imply a rejection of catholic morals set by the same entity. its not even relevant ffs.






Originally posted by -Pr-
Which is sad, as I personally know an irish doctor who's performed that very procedure.

it's that thing in ireland where you only follow the law when you get told enough times to do it.

Some doctors, like I said, are just dipshits when it comes to this kind of thing.

the doctors who performed the procedures were criminals, actually.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
If I was a doctor who got fired for saving a life in a situation like that then &*%# the system. I'd rather risk my job than allow someone to die and that's what doctors should be thinking. Those guys should be fired anyway just for being wimpy morons.

Not just job. The structural integrity of your anus, as you could be found guilty of murder and sent to prison.

No real difference when children that could be saved die because their Jehovah Witness parents refuse a blood transfusion due to religious beliefs. Doctors' hands are tied. As an example.

Prolife indeed.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
displaying outrage over the vatican ignoring acts of abomination
does not disprove the majority belief in catholic law. american catholics are outraged over the vatican's covering up of child molestations by priests. that doesnt imply a rejection of catholic morals set by the same entity. its not even relevant ffs.








the doctors who performed the procedures were criminals, actually.

ireland isn't the same as america. not nearly. the law isn't some strict catholic-abiding constitution. like i said, ireland is just really behind the times in legislation, and it's as much to do with laziness as, if not moreso than, catholic doctrine.

i'd say your assertion isn't relevant, but that's just imo.

yes, they were. and they did it anyway, because they used common sense.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ireland isn't the same as america. not nearly. the law isn't some strict catholic-abiding constitution. like i said, ireland is just really behind the times in legislation, and it's as much to do with laziness as, if not moreso than, catholic doctrine.

i'd say your assertion isn't relevant, but that's just imo.


ok, but for the life of me i cannot think of any single bit of legislation passed which goes against catholic law. (besides condoms being legalized in 1980 lol)

Originally posted by -Pr-
ireland isn't the same as america. not nearly. the law isn't some strict catholic-abiding constitution. like i said, ireland is just really behind the times in legislation, and it's as much to do with laziness as, if not moreso than, catholic doctrine.

i'd say your assertion isn't relevant, but that's just imo.

yes, they were. and they did it anyway, because they used common sense.

So you're saying that the idiots who run Ireland are idiots not because of religion, but just because they're genuinely stupid?

Originally posted by Robtard
Not just job. The structural integrity of your anus, as you could be found guilty of murder and sent to prison.

I find it hard to believe no hospital was ever prepared for a situation where an inevitably dying fetus was killing a woman and there was no choice but to abort what can already be dead unless they want the woman to die too and because they let that happen, someone should be faced with murder charges.



This world sucks.

Originally posted by BackFire
So you're saying that the idiots who run Ireland are idiots not because of religion, but just because they're genuinely stupid?

or perhaps they elect themselves into office while running on a hardline stance of anti-abortion

Originally posted by Robtard
To be fair, it's still illegal to perform an abortion in Ireland; so those doctors where officially following the law. We have no idea how they personally felt about it.


"In 1992, Ireland’s Supreme Court ruled that abortion should be allowed if the mother’s life was in danger but the law has never been changed, forcing thousands of women to travel abroad for terminations every year."
Wait, so despite the Supreme Court's ruling, the government still didn't change/implement the law? What a bunch of ****tards.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Wait, so despite the Supreme Court's ruling, the government still didn't change/implement the law? What a bunch of ****tards. I know the drunken Irish is supposed to be a stereotype, but being blitzed off your ass is the only way this makes sense.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Wait, so despite the Supreme Court's ruling, the government still didn't change/implement the law? What a bunch of ****tards.

I'm guessing The Catholic Church's influence > The Supreme Court in Ireland.

Or maybe you and BackFire are correct; the majority of Ireland is made up of genuinely stupid people?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
disgusting.

and these bible thumpers wonder why atheism is spreading so rapidly.


http://spectator.org/archives/2011/02/28/thriving-christianity

"The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding. Over 600 million Christians, including millions of Roman Catholics, are charismatic or Pentecostal."

Probably cos they're counting new births from *insert religion* parents as new members". Which is both silly and retarded and dare I say outright dishonest reporting.

-

"But overall, despite the distortions of secular, U.S. elite culture, people of faith in America and around the world can be hopeful that faith, and not Western secularism, represents the future for the vast majority of the world."

I lol'd

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/02/28/thriving-christianity

"The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding. Over 600 million Christians, including millions of Roman Catholics, are charismatic or Pentecostal."

skewed irrelevant figures for the win

now for relevance:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Bsa-religion-question.svg

if you feel like registering here is the source: http://www.britsocat.com/BodySecure.aspx?control=BritsocatMarginals&var=RELIGION&SurveyID=27

Originally posted by BackFire
So you're saying that the idiots who run Ireland are idiots not because of religion, but just because they're genuinely stupid? 0oaVN0PXwHo

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/02/28/thriving-christianity

"The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding. Over 600 million Christians, including millions of Roman Catholics, are charismatic or Pentecostal."
I would think that the atheists are more disproportionately represented in China, and that the decline of atheism is a result of the opening up of China to more missionaries.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I would think that the atheists are more disproportionately represented in China, and that the decline of atheism is a result of the opening up of China to more missionaries.

That was my assumption, as well.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
skewed irrelevant figures for the win

now for relevance:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Bsa-religion-question.svg

if you feel like registering here is the source: http://www.britsocat.com/BodySecure.aspx?control=BritsocatMarginals&var=RELIGION&SurveyID=27

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say your stats are limited to Britain (for example I doubt 70% of the world was Christian in 1983). As awful as dadude's article for the most part is I trust that their figures take into account the whole world, this is the kind of thing that is very important to Christians. The most likely distortion is the ambiguity created by the existence of secular Christianity in the the West.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As awful as dadude's article for the most part is...

I...didn't write that article.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I...didn't write that article.

The article you cited.

Is that not a common phrasing? Dadude's car would be the car dadude drives not necessarily the car dadude built.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The article you cited.

Is that not a common phrasing? Dadude's car would be the car dadude drives not necessarily the car dadude built.

The proper parallel would be, "a picture of Symmetric Chaos with his car is not dadudemon's car: he's just showing you the picture to prove SC has that particular car."

lol

What a guinea. You know your probably half a negro

I'm half a Mennonite.

I'm half a Meteorite.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
substantial enough to squash dadudemon's point though, so thank you for pointing that out. i would have hated to have left him notably unsquashed.

The opposite is true but at least you feel better, right?

let me guess...by showing figures that proved the percentage of atheists has been increasing in ireland, i actually proved you right?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
let me guess...by showing figures that proved the percentage of atheists has been increasing in ireland, i actually proved you right?

Well, you tried, at least, right? Maybe if you back-peddle some more, you'll be right about some more?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
considering that this took place in ireland i found it more relevant than global demographics. they are both after all predominately christian nations in the west, far more relevant than figures which include 3rd word countries where missionaries can convert and people breed like rabbits (even WITH that those numbers are weak).... but fair enough.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen someone actually go and explicitly dismiss the entire non-Western world like that.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen someone actually go and explicitly dismiss the entire non-Western world like that.
You've clearly never talked to my Uncle.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen someone actually go and explicitly dismiss the entire non-Western world like that.

sure you have.

but you're right, i'm sure. the practice of islam in sudan and budhism in tibet is totally relevant to the discussion of politics and religion in ireland.

So sad to here this news. May she and her baby rest in peace.

well...looks like someone's been busy today.