Ozymandias vs Raizo

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Betterman
Ozymandias (Film version with a samurai sword and night glasses to see in the darkness. It also works as an x-ray and more)

VS

Raizo (From Ninjas Assassin with his usual weapons and in his ninja outfit)


A battle to the death in Ozymandia's Veidt corporations building.

omgchos
Whats with the porly defined mcguffin glasses? Night vision, x-ray, and more? What's the more? And why are you handicapping the ninja by giving an already super fast and strong guy like Ozy such magical sunglasses nd a samurai sword? I only saw parts of Ninja Assassin but from what i could tell your magical glasses make this a stomp. Fool can catch bullets and kick a 200 pound man a good 5 feet into the air and a good distance away.

Estacado
Raizo.

marwash22
Originally posted by omgchos
Whats with the porly defined mcguffin glasses? Night vision, x-ray, and more? What's the more? And why are you handicapping the ninja by giving an already super fast and strong guy like Ozy such magical sunglasses nd a samurai sword? I only saw parts of Ninja Assassin but from what i could tell your magical glasses make this a stomp. Fool can catch bullets and kick a 200 pound man a good 5 feet into the air and a good distance away. magical glasses or not, Raizo still wins.

at the end of the movie he had that ninja blitz attack that was superior to any speed Ozy showed.

omgchos
I honeslty missed the last fight of the movie lol, but still whats the point of these glasses? Maybe if they could show you the future or some ****. And is this blitz attack comparable to bullet speeds? Is it more like a dash or a teleport? Ozy most definetly caught a bullet with his palm, which also means he was wearing armor. Admitedly not on his neck or head so decapitation is a posibility. But the speed feat is there.

omgchos
Actually according to lestovs thread he wasl calculated at 400 fps. Slower than a bullet.

marwash22
HU5k5eKxgK8

marwash22
Even if Ozy manages to hit Raizo, his damage soak and threshold for pain are pretty crazy.

omgchos
True he did seem to have good damage soak, but it is a dash. So Imo ozy could track his movements. We are also shown ozy nonchalantly dodgin shots and taking out the shooter in a very short space of time. Admittedly not as fast as him so idk if it tracks with his bullet catching ability. Could simply be along the lines of he can move fast enough to get his hand in the path of the bullet before it is actually fired. So at this point im not sure which way it would go lol.

marwash22
did you see one of the parts of the movie where the ninjas can hide in shadows?

omgchos
yeah i remember that but they have to leave them to attack. And ozy isnt gonna just assume they left and sit down for a nice cold drink and his favorite soap lol. Once they reapear to attack hed take care of em. Without that dash ability its a tossup to me with a slight leaning toward Raizo simply because Ozys speed was never cleary defined only hinted at and sor of shown. I mean since he knew toy chess was a pushover did he just half ass it? Or was it actually his fastest?

marwash22
well, whether he was holding back or not, we have to go by what he showed on screen.

omgchos
Yes i know but we did see him catch a bullet. Sice the two don't really tracki was merely stating that since we know he caught it with his hand, and we know he can move incredibly fast(albeit he didnt show us 400 fps) its enough to say that at the very least he could grab hold of Raizo and once he has him close he beats him to death.

FrothByte
I'm going to pretend that Ozy doesn't have these nightvision goggles, because that seriously dampens Raizo's abilities.

Strength wise, Ozy is pretty up there. Raizo isn't that bad either, considering he can throw ninja stars that burst through wooden beams like they were high powered rifle rounds, but Ozy is still stronger.

I would have voted on Ozy for the win if it wasn't for Raizo's speed blurring feats. After that last fight in Ninja Assassin, I'd have to say Raizo wins this after a hard fight. His ninja master also had the ability to heal wounds at will, so that's something.

Robtard
That shadow-speed-blitz isn't faster than Veidt can react to.

Raizo could only heal by concentrating and making a 'I ate too much sticky white rice' constipated face, so his healing-factor isn't good in an active fight. He does have an extremely high damage-soak though, iirc, he bleed more than the human body holds and lived.

omgchos
Thats what iv'e been saying.

marwash22
i still dont get how the nightvision goggles help Ozy see into shadows. If you wanted to gimp Raizo, setting the fight in an open and lit area or giving Ozy a giant spotlight would have been the way to go.

marwash22
Originally posted by omgchos
Yes i know but we did see him catch a bullet. Sice the two don't really tracki was merely stating that since we know he caught it with his hand, and we know he can move incredibly fast(albeit he didnt show us 400 fps) its enough to say that at the very least he could grab hold of Raizo and once he has him close he beats him to death. even if we concede that Ozy has that level of superspeed, he would need some sort of way to sense what direction Raizo is attacking from.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Robtard
That shadow-speed-blitz isn't faster than Veidt can react to.

Raizo could only heal by concentrating and making a 'I ate too much sticky white rice' constipated face.

There's really no proof of which one is faster. Ozy was inconsistent in speed feats. He was fast enough to dodge bullets but his battle speed when fighting the rest of the Watchmen didn't seem to show him using any super speed.

He might be fast enough to react to Raizo's blurr attack once or twice but if Raizo maintains attacks like that throughout the fight, Ozy hasn't shown any indication that he can maintain that kind of speed throughout a prolonged fight.

omgchos
Originally posted by FrothByte
There's really no proof of which one is faster. Ozy was inconsistent in speed feats. He was fast enough to dodge bullets but his battle speed when fighting the rest of the Watchmen didn't seem to show him using any super speed.

He might be fast enough to react to Raizo's blurr attack once or twice but if Raizo maintains attacks like that throughout the fight, Ozy hasn't shown any indication that he can maintain that kind of speed throughout a prolonged fight.
I'll conced that he never shoed longevity to a huge extent, but since night owl and Rorschach were just mince meat to him, and the fact that he did consider dan his friend, why would he go all out. He responds to the situation, he didnt even break a sweat fighting those two. He even managed to dodge dr. manhattans giant hand.

Originally posted by marwash22
even if we concede that Ozy has that level of superspeed, he would need some sort of way to sense what direction Raizo is attacking from.

True but from what i saw in the movie raizo didnt have a very spiratic attack pattern. He just kinda did a back and fourth. All ozy has to do is trace him with his eyes anyway, which can move much faster than the rest of him. If he can put his hand in the path of a bullet he can most deffinetly keep track of raizo with his eyes.

Silent Master
Ozy's problem is that Raizo is being given his weapons, at least two of which Ozy has no skill using or defending against IE the Katana and the Surujin

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
Ozy's problem is that Raizo is being given his weapons, at least two of which Ozy has no skill using or defending against IE the Katana and the Surujin

His speed makes it possible to dodge anything he can throw at him. Nothing raizo has done has been on par with the speed of a bullet.

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
Ozy's problem is that Raizo is being given his weapons, at least two of which Ozy has no skill using or defending against IE the Katana and the Surujin

Dodge or grab katana and shurikens, Veidt's gauntlets where bullet-proof.

Silent Master
Bullet-proof and knife/sword proof at two completely different things and Ozy wasn't shown as fast enough to dodge all of Raizo's attacks.

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
Bullet-proof and knife/sword proof at two completely different things and Ozy wasn't shown as fast enough to dodge all of Raizo's attacks.
Actually it does mean that. And yes he has shown the capability. Raizo moves at 400fps..... bullets move at 600+ fps. Some upwards of 1000.

marwash22
Originally posted by omgchos
True but from what i saw in the movie raizo didnt have a very spiratic attack pattern. He just kinda did a back and fourth. All ozy has to do is trace him with his eyes anyway, which can move much faster than the rest of him. If he can put his hand in the path of a bullet he can most deffinetly keep track of raizo with his eyes. track him coming out of shadows? how does that work?

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
Bullet-proof and knife/sword proof at two completely different things and Ozy wasn't shown as fast enough to dodge all of Raizo's attacks.

Well yes. But he still has something to fall back on instead of bare hands.

He doesn't need to dodge or catch all of Raizo's attacks, he needs to dodge one and then grab and throttle the Asian like a ragdoll.

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
Actually it does mean that. And yes he has shown the capability. Raizo moves at 400fps..... bullets move at 600+ fps. Some upwards of 1000.

Prove that Ozy moves at 600+ fps, because I've seen the scene and he's not moving anywhere neat that fast.

omgchos
Originally posted by marwash22
track him coming out of shadows? how does that work?

Reflexes..... and i brighlty lit office building has naught but a few very small shadows. Unless this is at night which might be implied by the thread starters giving him magic glasses. But even at night an office building can have lights thanks to the magic of electricity.

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that Ozy moves at 600+ fps, because I've seen the scene and he's not moving anywhere neat that fast.
Not him personally no, but as ive stated he caught the bullet, on screen. Reflexes and hi arm/eyes/brain can comprehend and react at those speeds without a doubt.

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
Not him personally no, but as ive stated he caught the bullet, on screen. Reflexes and hi arm/eyes/brain can comprehend and react at those speeds without a doubt.

Prove that the bullet he caught was moving at 600+ fps

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that the bullet he caught was moving at 600+ fps
She had a 38 special and its a matter of fact that a standard slug leaves the barrel at between 600 and if i remember correctly 650 fps depending on the load. Some higher load bullets travel at upwards of 1000. Especially those fired from rifles. But he doesnt dode a rifle.

marwash22
Originally posted by omgchos
Reflexes..... and i brighlty lit office building has naught but a few very small shadows. Unless this is at night which might be implied by the thread starters giving him magic glasses. But even at night an office building can have lights thanks to the magic of electricity. You did my work for me. The room is dark... and yeah, i suppose Ozy can run over to a light switch, but that would only end the fight sooner, as Raizo isn't gonna just sit around and wait for Ozy to turns the lights on and let the shadows disappear.

omgchos
Originally posted by marwash22
You did my work for me. The room is dark... and yeah, i suppose Ozy can run over to a light switch, but that would only end the fight sooner, as Raizo isn't gonna just sit around and wait for Ozy to turns the lights on and let the shadows disappear.
Never said it started dark....... said the thread starter never said. Its not like Ozys gonna be chillin in dark office building.

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that the bullet he caught was moving at 600+ fps

She used a Smith & Wesson Model 10

FT/S for a .38 is 679-910

/boom

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
She had a 38 special and its a matter of fact that a standard slug leaves the barrel at between 600 and if i remember correctly 650 fps depending on the load. Some higher load bullets travel at upwards of 1000. Especially those fired from rifles. But he doesnt dode a rifle.

I don't care how fast a real world bullet would move, prove that the bullet Ozy caught was moving that fast, because I've seen the scene and Ozy's arm wasn't moving all that fast when he caught it.

marwash22
Originally posted by omgchos
Never said it started dark....... said the thread starter never said. Its not like Ozys gonna be chillin in dark office building. Originally posted by Betterman
Ozymandias (Film version with a samurai sword and night glasses to see in the darkness. It also works as an x-ray and more)

VS

Raizo (From Ninjas Assassin with his usual weapons and in his ninja outfit)


A battle to the death in Ozymandia's Veidt corporations building.

omgchos
Night glasses are for seening in darkness after all... even tho i wouldnt call them night glasses. If he had said a sword for cutting people it would have meant the same thing.

Robtard
I'm pretty sure Veidt has the resources to pay his electricity bill, considering he claimed to be worth more than several other high-profile CEOs combined.

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't care how fast a real world bullet would move, prove that the bullet Ozy caught was moving that fast, because I've seen the scene and Ozy's arm wasn't moving all that fast when he caught it.
Yeah your argument is just childish at this point. Please just leave.
Edit: Also its called slo motion.

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
Yeah your argument is just childish at this point. Please just leave.

If you're going to use "calculations" to determine Raizo's speed, I want to see the same calcs used to determine how fast Ozy was moving when he caught the bullet. because I've seen the scene and he wasn't moving all that fast.

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to use "calculations" to determine Raizo's speed, I want to see the same calcs used to determine how fast Ozy was moving when he caught the bullet. because I've seen the scene and he wasn't moving all that fast.

That the scene was slowed down for theatrics. Slow-Mo starts right after she fires and continues until he falls down and starts rolling.

What do you suggest, her .38 revolver was firing "special" slow moving bullets?

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to use "calculations" to determine Raizo's speed, I want to see the same calcs used to determine how fast Ozy was moving when he caught the bullet. because I've seen the scene and he wasn't moving all that fast.
Not only was that scene in slow motion, you qualified your argument by saying that i should prove the bullet moved that fast. Which i have done. Therefore if he aught it, however the movie was shot or edited he most definetly caught it, and therefore can move that fast.

marwash22
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm pretty sure Veidt has the resources to pay his electricity bill, considering he claimed to be worth more than several other high-profile CEOs combined. lol, yeah. but I'm only going by what the OP set up, which is that the fight is obviously meant to take place in the dark.

Robtard
Originally posted by marwash22
lol, yeah. but I'm only going by what the OP set up, which is that the fight is obviously meant to take place in the dark.

Fair enough.

Seems like a stupid setup, it's dark in the building but Veidt has night-goggles. Why not just go with a lite building, as there's shadows that way for Raizo to use and neither guy is gimped or amped.

omgchos
I think we can all admit the thread starter eeds to clarify his language use. As the glasses Ozy gets have more than just nightvision and x ray capabilities. Yet what more is isnt clearly defined.

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
Not only was that scene in slow motion, you qualified your argument by saying that i should prove the bullet moved that fast. Which i have done. Therefore if he aught it, however the movie was shot or edited he most definetly caught it, and therefore can move that fast.

If you're going to use calcs to determine Raizo's speed, you have to do the same for Ozy, so please provide the calcs that show how fast he was moving when the caught the bullet.

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to use calcs to determine Raizo's speed, you have to do the same for Ozy, so please provide the calcs that show how fast he was moving when the caught the bullet.
Its not about calcs here when it comes to how fast he was movieng. We dont need them because we know how fast the blullet travels. If i know for a fact that a car is traveling at 80 miles an hour and i can catch up to it in my car and match its speed, i dont have to look at my speedometer to know how fast im going.

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
Its not about calcs here when it comes to how fast he was movieng. We dont need them because we know how fast the blullet travels. If i know for a fact that a car is traveling at 80 miles an hour and i can catch up to it in my car and match its speed, i dont have to look at my speedometer to know how fast im going.

Wrong, bullet speed can vary depending on the load, therefore you still need calcs to determine how fast it was going.

So again, If you're going to use calcs to determine Raizo's speed, you have to do the same for Ozy, so please provide the calcs that show how fast he was moving when the caught the bullet.

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
Wrong, bullet speed can vary depending on the load, therefore you still need calcs to determine how fast it was going.

So again, If you're going to use calcs to determine Raizo's speed, you have to do the same for Ozy, so please provide the calcs that show how fast he was moving when the caught the bullet.

Asi said before the lowest load in a 38 is the 600 fps mark. Unless shes firing some kind of nerfed bullet which makes no sense at all i dont need calcs. Your asking me to prove how fast a bullet moves, then your asking me to prove he moved that fast, now falling back into the bullet arfument. Make up your mind tho it wont matter much.

Silent Master
Originally posted by omgchos
Asi said before the lowest load in a 38 is the 600 fps mark. Unless shes firing some kind of nerfed bullet which makes no sense at all i dont need calcs. Your asking me to prove how fast a bullet moves, then your asking me to prove he moved that fast, now falling back into the bullet arfument. Make up your mind tho it wont matter much.

Why are you so scared of doing the calcs, is it because you know that they'll show that Ozy wasn't moving anywhere near that fast when it caught the bullet?

omgchos
Originally posted by Silent Master
Why are you so scared of doing the calcs, is it because you know that they'll show that Ozy wasn't moving anywhere near that fast when it caught the bullet?
Not so much scareed of being wrong as of wasting my own time. You've seen proof and ignored it, whilst your arguments have become nothing but stubborn repeats of the same thing so im gonna go ahead and not respod to you anymore. Its bin a pleasure being right tho.

Robtard
LoL, this guy.

If something is known (eg how fast a given bullet travels), it's up to you to prove it was travelling slower than the lowest possible speed. Not the other way around.

marwash22
also, if you know how fast something is traveling and a person catches said object, it's reasonable to assume that the person is faster than the object. So at the very least, Ozy would be capable of moving at 601fps.

Silent Master
Real world lightning travels around 75 miles per second, however I'm fairly sure that if you did the calcs, Thor's lightning in Avengers wouldn't be shown as moving anywhere near that fast.

So, if your going to base your argument on calcs, you need to do them for both sides.

FrothByte
Originally posted by omgchos
Actually it does mean that. And yes he has shown the capability. Raizo moves at 400fps..... bullets move at 600+ fps. Some upwards of 1000.

Wait, where exactly did we get the figure that Raizo moves at 400 fps?

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
Real world lightning travels around 75 miles per second, however I'm fairly sure that if you did the calcs, Thor's lightning in Avengers wouldn't be shown as moving anywhere near that fast.

So, if your going to base your argument on calcs, you need to do them for both sides.

Except a gun is something that exist and has large amounts of quantifiable data. Sustained lightning (as lightning generally hits and is gone quickly) from a fictional alien being doesn't, so it may or may not follow known data.

FrothByte
Let's say for argument's sake that the bullet was moving at 600 fps, what's the proof that Raizo can't move that fast or even faster?

Robtard
Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's say for argument's sake that the bullet was moving at 600 fps, what's the proof that Raizo can't move that fast or even faster?

Because he literally wasn't seen moving faster than a bullet. Unless I'm forgetting something in the film? Did he dodge bullets? Did he catch bullets? Did he race a bullet and win?

Silent Master
Originally posted by Robtard
Except a gun is something that exist and has large amounts of quantifiable data. Sustained lightning (as lightning generally hits and is gone quickly) from a fictional alien being doesn't, so it may or may not follow known data.

Thor used real lightning, he summond it into his hammer and then fired it at Iron-man.

So again, if your going to base your argument on calcs, you need to do them for both sides.

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor used real lightning, he summond it into his hammer and then fired it at Iron-man.

So again, if your going to base your argument on calcs, you need to do them for both sides.

"He summond it into his hammer and then fired" because that's real and has shit loads of data on the subject like known bullet speeds.

I don't recall how slow (assuming it was slow) Thor's lightning blast were, but an argument could be made that Mjolnir affects the lightning, since a fictional hi-tech/magical hammer is just that.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Robtard
"He summond it into his hammer and then fired" because that's real and has shit loads of data on the subject like known bullet speeds.

It's lightning and lightning has a known travel speed.

Robtard
Originally posted by Silent Master
It's lightning and lightning has a known travel speed.

Please show me known data on lightning being fired from a "magical" hammer?

Silent Master
You know what, this isn't worth arguing over, so I'll accept the 600 fps speed for the bullet.

That said, if the bullet needs to travel 7-10 feet to reach Ozy and he only needs to move his hand 1 foot in order to catch it, then he doesn't need to be moving anywhere near 600 fps.

So can we gets some calcs on just how fast Ozy was moving when he caught the bullet.

marwash22
all these speed calculations are pointless because Ozy wont be able to see where the attack is coming from and his head will be on the floor moments after the fight starts.

Robtard
Originally posted by marwash22
all these speed calculations are pointless because Ozy wont be able to see where the attack is coming from and his head will be on the floor moments after the fight starts.

Guy has super-awareness, as he was watching and taking in the info from over 100 televisions at once and knew exactly when Rorschach made his attack. Granted, he was aware that it was coming, he just didn't know exactly when. Same as here.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Robtard
Because he literally wasn't seen moving faster than a bullet. Unless I'm forgetting something in the film? Did he dodge bullets? Did he catch bullets? Did he race a bullet and win?

No, but he blurred in and out of screen faster than we could properly follow. We have no idea how fast he was going. Claiming that he wasn't as fast as a bullet is mere speculation and weak argument.

He could have been slower than a bullet or faster, but unless you can get concrete proof to backup something, saying that you're certain he is slower than a bullet is pure guesswork.

marwash22
Originally posted by Robtard
Guy has super-awareness, as he was watching and taking in the info from over 100 televisions at once and knew exactly when Rorschach made his attack. Granted, he was aware that it was coming, he just didn't know exactly when. Same as here. Sure, he could take in a lot of information at once from multiple sources, but that's not quite the same thing as being able to sense where an attack will come from and when it will happen. He doesn't have Jedi precog.

pretty sure sound played a part in him reacting to Rorschach.

Robtard
Originally posted by FrothByte
No, but he blurred in and out of screen faster than we could properly follow. We have no idea how fast he was going. Claiming that he wasn't as fast as a bullet is mere speculation and weak argument.

He could have been slower than a bullet or faster, but unless you can get concrete proof to backup something, saying that you're certain he is slower than a bullet is pure guesswork.
I can visually see that while Raizo was moving fast(superhuman), he wasn't moving faster than a lower-end bullet, which are nearly invisible to the human eye.

So if you want to argue he was actually moving faster than a bullet despite what is shown, you make that case.

Robtard
Originally posted by marwash22
Sure, he could take in a lot of information at once from multiple sources, but that's not quite the same thing as being able to sense where an attack will come from and when it will happen. He doesn't have Jedi precog.

pretty sure sound played a part in him reacting to Rorschach.

IIRC Rorschach was silent?

marwash22
kbnGA8uu8T0


audible footsteps.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Robtard
I can visually see that while Raizo was moving fast(superhuman), he wasn't moving faster than a lower-end bullet, which are nearly invisible to the human eye.

So if you want to argue he was actually moving faster than a bullet despite what is shown, you make that case.

Are bullets human sized? Sure if Raizo was as small as your pinky you'd have trouble seeing him as well... or if bullet was as big as a human then we would still see it blurring despite it's speed.

Cmon man, common sense.

Dreampanther
I ended up watching Ninja Assassin on TV again and got some new-found respect for Raizo's skills and abilities. He is one serious badass and when, at the end of the movie, he gets the ability to move so fast he blurs into invisibility he becomes nearly untouchable.

Reviving this thread just for the hell it and to pay my respect to Raizo, the man I'd pay if I needed Ozymandias assassinated.

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Dreampanther
I ended up watching Ninja Assassin on TV again and got some new-found respect for Raizo's skills and abilities. He is one serious badass and when, at the end of the movie, he gets the ability to move so fast he blurs into invisibility he becomes nearly untouchable.

Reviving this thread just for the hell it and to pay my respect to Raizo, the man I'd pay if I needed Ozymandias assassinated.

Been about 6 years since I've seen Ninja Assassin, but Raizo should have his way with Ozy.

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