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Doom swaps minds with the Plutonian. He gets 24 hours of prep to master his new abilities and then face off against Super Boy Prime and World War Hulk on a deserted planet. No bfr. Who wins?

Doom.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doom. gets shitstomped I agree

Plutonian's powerset + Doom's intellect = he wins.

WWH is practically a non-factor.

Originally posted by Nihilist
gets shitstomped I agree
Yup. SBP AND WWH? Poor Doom.

This would essentially be a repeat of Void vs. Loki.

Doom wins.

WWH gets BFR'd or erased from existence, and SBP puts up a fight, but Plutonian is a beast of a different level, and Doom can utilize his God powers to a whole different level.

Originally posted by Galan007
This would essentially be a repeat of Void vs. Loki.

Doom wins.



Normal Plutonian would be too much for WWH and could give Prime a decent fight, possibly even winning in some cases. And Tony was still understanding how to use his powers and learning. Considering Doom's track record when it comes to mastering stolen powers and the like (often in time far less than a 24 hour period) how he gets "shit stomped" is beyond me.

Doom mastered Wanda's Life Force reality manip powers in what, 5 minutes? It was just his body wasn't meant to handle it so no amount of mastery would help.

With 24 Hours under his belt, SBP dies.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Normal Plutonian would be too much for WWH and could give Prime a decent fight, possibly even winning in some cases. And Tony was still understanding how to use his powers and learning. Considering Doom's track record when it comes to mastering stolen powers and the like (often in time far less than a 24 hour period) how he gets "shit stomped" is beyond me.
Exactly.

Tony had the raw power, but lacked the knowledge to use that power to its best. It was only when he began 'studying' under a human scientist who was able to teach him how to better use the exotic side of his powerset, that his powers began to grow astronomically. Give Doom those raw powers, and he wouldn't have to start with the basics like Tony did, because he already has knowledge/mastery of the basics, the intermediate, the advanced, and everything in between (ie. he'd not only have the raw the power, but he'd also have the knowledge to apply that power to his whim right off the bat.) His power/knowledge ratio would be off the charts-- well over 9,000. Additionally, the fact that Doom has stolen/held uber powers (several times) in the past, only helps him here. He already knows what to expect, and wouldn't be 'star struck' by teh powa like other feebs might be.

Regardless, it's worth noting that even with Tony's lack of knowledge, it still took a being channeling the power of entire starS (and burning them out) just to harm him-- and even then, he was purposefully holding back as to not hurt said baddie. The dude was a legit bad motherf*cker.

Point being: Doom stomps here.

I hate to admit this but Doom wins. Plutonian was getting punched so hard that solar systems was being destroyed as a side affect. No one is punching letting alone withstanding hits like that. Give Doom these powers and he becomes God like. Both WWH and Prime get two pieced.

No, no.

Solar systems were dying because the suns in those solar systems were being drained of all their energy (energy that was being used against Tony.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Tony had the raw power, but lacked the knowledge to use that power to its best. It was only when he began 'studying' under a human scientist who was able to teach him how to better use the exotic side of his powerset, that his powers began to grow astronomically. Give Doom those raw powers, and he wouldn't have to start with the basics like Tony did, because he already has knowledge/mastery of the basics, the intermediate, the advanced, and everything in between (ie. he'd not only have the raw the power, but he'd also have the knowledge to apply that power to his whim right off the bat.) His power/knowledge ratio would be off the charts-- well over 9,000. Additionally, the fact that Doom has stolen/held uber powers (several times) in the past, only helps him here. He already knows what to expect, and wouldn't be 'star struck' by teh powa like other feebs might be.

Regardless, it's worth noting that even with Tony's lack of knowledge, it still took a being channeling the power of entire starS (and burning them out) just to harm him-- and even then, he was purposefully holding back as to not hurt said baddie. The dude was a legit bad motherf*cker.

Point being: Doom stomps here.



Plutonian on his own is a nasty mofo. Giving Doom his power set and way too much time to master his powers (a full day? ) is like putting a fifth grader and a sixth grader against a college linebacker.

Yup. Tony only understood his powers on a basic(perhaps intermediate) level, yet he was still able to rack up some insane feats. His powerset was based on comprehension-- the more he understood about how to use his powers, the better he was able to use them. For instance: as long as he knew that he had to combine hydrogen and oxygen to make water, he could whip up a lake. Etc.

Doom is smarter than everyone in the Irredeemable-verse combined. Giving him Tony's near-limitless ability to manipulate matter/energy, along with time to acclimate himself with said powers, makes him... Well... Too much for Hulk and Prime to handle, to say the least.

When he was still learning, didn't he force his way back through time after that prisoner punched him backwards a few hundred/thousand years?

Hm, I don't remember that one off hand. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, though.

They were fighting a prisoner whose punches were so powerful they sent people careening through time. And Tony rushed in, got knocked into a wormhole, then came back a bit later I believe.

Cool. I must've missed that.

Doom has some new b***hes, plus Doom still has knowledge of magic spells that pretty up there, plus with tony powers, yeah SBP and WWH get stomp so hard, they will commit suicide to end the fight.

Doomplonian

Dootonian.

I read several plutonian comics a long time ago. I don't recall him doing anything close to what SBP has done on the upper end of things. I'm thinking SBP stomps Plutonian hard.

Maybe you should read the later issues then, before making a judgement?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Maybe you should read the later issues then, before making a judgement? lol i thought i read them all. didn't they stop making them?
Just tell me what are some of his top feats, because although impressive they don't match SBP's best.

I don't care what Galan say, Plutonian was getting punched so hard, solar systems were being destroyed and he withstood it. Neither Prime or Hulk is withstanding that. Then that doesn't include his ft of Gravity where he withstood the gravity of a neutron star (I think that's what it was, could have been higher). His other fts are amazing as well...can't think of then off hand.

He had to be mentally tricked into getting sedated, then contained in a cocoon of his own skin so he couldn't break free, and got left in the no-safety zone of a prison inside a star or something like that.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't care what Galan say, Plutonian was getting punched so hard, solar systems were being destroyed and he withstood it. Neither Prime or Hulk is withstanding that. Then that doesn't include his ft of Gravity where he withstood the gravity of a neutron star (I think that's what it was, could have been higher). His other fts are amazing as well...can't think of then off hand.

SBP withstood a universal buster.
That trumps anything Plutonian has tanked.
Superman withstood a double black hole and also held one in his hand.
Black holes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>neutron stars.

SBP has moved planets around faster than light like chess pieces. This takes astronomical strength to do (in excess of thousands of planet weights worth of force)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Originally posted by h1a8
SBP withstood a universal buster.
That trumps anything Plutonian has tanked.
Superman withstood a double black hole and also held one in his hand.
Black holes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>neutron stars.

SBP has moved planets around faster than light like chess pieces. This takes astronomical strength to do (in excess of thousands of planet weights worth of force)

Can't tell if serious or not.

Originally posted by carver9
Can't tell if serious or not.

If I said anything not true then I'm not serious. But if all I said was true then I'm serious. So which one?

Originally posted by h1a8
If I said anything not true then I'm not serious. But if all I said was true then I'm serious. So which one?

So you think Prime and Superman can take a punch to the face that packs enough power to destroy solar systems?

Originally posted by carver9
So you think Prime and Superman can take a punch to the face that packs enough power to destroy solar systems?

A universe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a
galaxy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a solar system.


Do you think Plutonian can survive a universal buster?

Originally posted by h1a8
A universe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a
galaxy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a solar system.


Do you think Plutonian can survive a universal buster?

Has Plutonian been hit by one.? Prime has been hurt by far less than a universe buster and he sure as hell been hurt by far less than a punch to the face that is leveling solar systems.

Originally posted by carver9
Has Plutonian been hit by one.? Prime has been hurt by far less than a universe buster and he sure as hell been hurt by far less than a punch to the face that is leveling solar systems.

And plutonian has been hurt by less too. You want to pick high for plutonian and choose low for SBP I can do the same.

Originally posted by h1a8
And plutonian has been hurt by less too. You want to pick high for plutonian and choose low for SBP I can do the same.

You really can't. What low showing can you use to contradict what I said.? Then, I'm pretty sure whatever low showing you find of Plutonian, I can find one far worse for Prime. Then this thread isn't about Superman Prime, its about SuperBOY Prime.

i don't know anything about Plutonian...but what surprises me is...normally Superman-Prime is always defended by DC fans...who is this Plutonian?!? i can't believe there is a character soo powerful that Superman-prime fails as an arguement...

Originally posted by carver9
You really can't. What low showing can you use to contradict what I said.? Then, I'm pretty sure whatever low showing you find of Plutonian, I can find one far worse for Prime. Then this thread isn't about Superman Prime, its about SuperBOY Prime.
Epic fail.

does DrDoom have any fear of the Hulk? if WWH is the main target can superboy-prime's sneak attacks do any damage long enough for WWH to do heavy attacks?

Doom already beat Hulk with his normal powers. Beating him with his own plus Plutonian's is no problem.

Prime punches Doom so hard that it sends his mind flying back to his regular body and when the mind arrives the head explodes because Prime hit it so hard.

Team wins easily.
Originally posted by KingD19
Doom already beat Hulk with his normal powers. Beating him with his own plus Plutonian's is no problem.
Not WWH.

lol x2

Doompultoian would hit SBP punk a$$ so hard back to earth prime inverse, when SBP crash lands back to earth prime he literally sh** on himself from the impact.

how is wwh a non factor? yea ill take hulk and prime 8/10

In this fight, both of them are screwed...Hulk and Prime.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
how is wwh a non factor? yea ill take hulk and prime 8/10

Because WWH would be extremely hard pressed to beat Plutonian on his own, let alone Doom's mind with Plutonian's body.

Doom gets crushed.

How?

How does he get crushed?

Normal Plutonian wouldn't get crushed, so I'm having a hard time seeing how a how a much smarter guy than he using his powers would be.

Dootonian steamrolls.

Originally posted by h1a8



SBP has moved planets around faster than light like chess pieces. This takes astronomical strength to do (in excess of thousands of planet weights worth of force)
He flew several times the speed of light, with the weight of a neutron star.

Originally posted by h1a8
And plutonian has been hurt by less too. You want to pick high for plutonian and choose low for SBP I can do the same. But you are trolling. You are using Plutonian highest feat as an average yet telling me I can't use primes highest feat but i must use his lowest feat.
Sbp has a strength feat beyond a solar system of mass. He moved planets around faster than light in hardly no time. This takes more than thousands of planet weights of force. A solar system is about 10 planets and a sun. Also a black hole can destroy many solar systems effortlessly. superman survived a double black hole and held one in his hands.

H1...So you quoted yourself and said that you are trolling. Grammy.

h1a8, stop trolling yourself.

Reported.

Originally posted by h1a8
Originally posted by h1a8
And plutonian has been hurt by less too. You want to pick high for plutonian and choose low for SBP I can do the same. But you are trolling. You are using Plutonian highest feat as an average yet telling me I can't use primes highest feat but i must use his lowest feat.
Sbp has a strength feat beyond a solar system of mass. He moved planets around faster than light in hardly no time. This takes more than thousands of planet weights of force. A solar system is about 10 planets and a sun. Also a black hole can destroy many solar systems effortlessly. superman survived a double black hole and held one in his hands.
Originally posted by carver9
H1...So you quoted yourself and said that you are trolling. Grammy.
Originally posted by Mindset
h1a8, stop trolling yourself.

Reported.
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/783811_o.gif

Woah, wtf happened to this thread?

err...it turned into space feats that aren't to be taking seriously because the DC Superman universe isn't intending to be scientific and therefor not true feats...keep it on earth guys

So, basically, h1 broke himself and no one can provide a good reason why the team "stomps" outside of just stating it.

'kay.

Doom wins

can someone show me Plutonians most basic feats? nothing involving Space please...

Originally posted by h1a8
But you are trolling. You are using Plutonian highest feat as an average yet telling me I can't use primes highest feat but i must use his lowest feat.
Sbp has a strength feat beyond a solar system of mass. He moved planets around faster than light in hardly no time. This takes more than thousands of planet weights of force. A solar system is about 10 planets and a sun. Also a black hole can destroy many solar systems effortlessly. superman survived a double black hole and held one in his hands. H1 are you alright??

Originally posted by TheHulk
H1 are you alright??
Elusidate. Me and Carver are discussing something. Trying to make a point to him. I'm not posting in general but only for him

Originally posted by h1a8
Elusidate. Me and Carver are discussing something. Trying to make a point to him. I'm not posting in general but only for him Really now? can I join this discussion of the dumbasses...lol joking

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How?

How does he get crushed?

Normal Plutonian wouldn't get crushed, so I'm having a hard time seeing how a how a much smarter guy than he using his powers would be. Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol x2

Your material is lacking.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Your material is lacking.
Nope.
Although your "How does he get beaten?" rhetorics in every thread involving doom is reaching quan level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope.
Although your "How does he get beaten?" rhetorics in every thread involving doom is reaching quan level.

baka

You really are one of the last people on this forum that should throw around the term, imply, or even insinuate someone's a fanboy.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
baka

You really are one of the last people on this forum that should throw around the term, imply, or even insinuate someone's a fanboy.
Really?

What have I done to lost that sacred privilege jake?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really?

What have I done to lost that sacred privilege jake?



You can't be serious.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


You can't be serious.
I'm totally serious.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm totally serious.

So I take it you're not aware of your own behavior, then?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So I take it you're not aware of your own behavior, then?
My behavior? You mean actually reading comics and debating on them? C'mon jake, you can do better than this.

Shit, now Abhi's broken too....

Originally posted by abhilegend
My behavior? You mean actually reading comics and debating on them? C'mon jake, you can do better than this.

Stuff like necrobumping threads to bait posters and ridicule statements that are years old, claiming the forum as a majority hates Superman, and generally getting pissy and combative in threads concerning him and forcing mod intervention more than once doesn't ring a bell?

And then you compare me to Quan?

C'mon, man.

C'mon.

baka

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Stuff like necrobumping threads to bait posters and ridicule statements that are years old, claiming the forum as a majority hates Superman, and generally getting pissy and combative in threads concerning him and forcing mod intervention more than once doesn't ring a bell?

And then you compare me to Quan?

C'mon, man.

C'mon.

baka

Lol...even though you are missing some stuff, this is nothing but the truth. I think ABHI can be cool sometimes though but he can also be irritating as hell.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Stuff like necrobumping threads to bait posters post and ridicule statements that are years old which deserve to be ridiculed for their absurdness, claimingknowing the forum as a majority hates Superman, and generally getting pissy and combative in threads concerning him actually knows wtf I am talking about and forcing mod intervention more than once doesn't ring a bell?

And then you compare me your doom related rhetorics to Quan?

C'mon, man.

C'mon.

baka Nothing that suggests I can't name someone as a fanboy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nothing that suggests I can't name someone as a fanboy.

Oh, you can call people fanboys.

But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, you can call people fanboys.

But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Why? What will happen?

Guys, back on topic. Carver and Abhi, stop ****ing around.

Your glass house will shatter from the hypocrisy.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why? What will happen?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your glass house will shatter from the hypocrisy.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, you can call people fanboys.

But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Nope.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, back on topic. Carver and Abhi, stop ****ing around.
I didn't see your post. Don't kill me!

My thought with the mindswap was to create a stronger incarnation of Plutonian, since I believe Tony would be beaten by SBP/WWH, even though he has the potential to beat the team.
Those who say team stomps, is that because you think team>plutonian no matter how well the powers are utilized or because a 24h prep Doom isn't enough?

Doomonian. He would tap into the full measure of his psionics, giving himself psychic and reality warping powers at the same level as Tony's parents.

Not only would Doom trade shots with Super Hulk. But with control over reality he could explore exotic means to put him out.

Plutonian alone would beat both. With Doom in his head, it just gets sad.
Plutonian's powers, in Doom's hands, would just be a bad thing.

Originally posted by carver9
I hate to admit this but Doom wins. Plutonian was getting punched so hard that solar systems was being destroyed as a side affect. No one is punching letting alone withstanding hits like that. Give Doom these powers and he becomes God like. Both WWH and Prime get two pieced. My friend carver is talking sense here!
As usual, his wisdom and open-mindedness is worth heeding.

Originally posted by Horrificus
My friend carver is talking sense here!
As usual, his wisdom and open-mindedness is worth heeding.

False he's ignoring the fact that SBP tanked a universal buster and that SBP has strength feats beyond solar systems of mass. Also he's forgetting that SBP's hv can penetrate Superman as easy as a ghost. One HV shot to the brain ends it.

h1a8 defends SBP...therefore i say WWH will attack the sides...or the can do a team attack when SBP grabs WWH arm and swings him at Plutonian like a weapon

I wish people would have read Irredeemable. facepalm

put in the redeem code...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I wish people would have read Irredeemable. facepalm I have read it. I have it here. I didn't see anything more impressive than SBP's best feats. Nothing. Unless I missed something.

SBP and WWH team attacks?...seems like the best idea...SBP uses heat vision to temporarly blind plutonian while WWH attacks...or WWH grabs Plutonians arms while SBP attacks?

Hulk can easily be BFRed in this fight. Easily. Then Prime would have to face him by himself.

if thats so...then how much damage would they do to plutonian before WWH is out? and how long can SBP last after that? will WWH have time to get back into the battle? oh and no BFR

Doom will put Hulk in a coma, and beat SBP like stole something, Doom with his intelligence and magic knowledge plus Tony full arsenal of powers, yeah this team is dead, Doom beats them so bad they will be walking like the Walkers in the Walking Dead, basically brain dead.

does Plutonian have bad powers he uses by accident? like inspecter-gadget? or its not nearly that bad?

Originally posted by Villelater
does Plutonian have bad powers he uses by accident? like inspecter-gadget? or its not nearly that bad?

He's high.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have read it. I have it here. I didn't see anything more impressive than SBP's best feats. Nothing. Unless I missed something.

You missed the part where its Doom who's now in control, with 24 hours of prep.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You missed the part where its Doom who's now in control, with 24 hours of prep. So you saying Doom can make Plutonian achieve a much higher level of reality warping? If so then Doom has a chance. But it all depends on Plutonian's potential and whether Doom can tap into that potential (provided it is sufficient).

Doom was bringing people back to life mere moments after obtaining the Life Force from Wanda. Moments after he had his vibranium armor, Doom was attacking the heroes of Earth simataneously from Wakanda. With the Power Cosmic, Doom was already capable of utilizing its powers without even trying. And so on and so on for virtually every time Doom has obtained omnipotent powers or other stole the powers of another being. He's consistently displayed the ability to be incredibly proficient with powersets almost instantly upon getting them.

Considering the vast potential of the Plutonian's powerset and the fact that Doom is given a full 24 hour period to hone and master them - which may as well be an eternity to him - there's little in the way to suggest Hulk and Prime would beat him.

perhaps you are right. I really didn't notice the 24hour period though. This changes things a little.

win or lose - how much damage can WWH and SBP do to plutonian? also on a side note do WWH&SBP use those 24 hours to plan out there team attacks?

Originally posted by Villelater
win or lose - how much damage can WWH and SBP do to plutonian? also on a side note do WWH&SBP use those 24 hours to plan out there team attacks?

SBP can do a lot of damage to a normal Plutonian. But this is one with Doom's mind and 24hr prep to reach much higher levels than Plutonian never could achieve. So it's plausible.

Originally posted by Villelater
win or lose - how much damage can WWH and SBP do to plutonian? also on a side note do WWH&SBP use those 24 hours to plan out there team attacks?

SBP and WWH would be gnats to Doom, next to Thanos when obtaining power Doom is highly dangerous to the point he would fight on their level, than open a can a of whoop a$$. It would take Odin level power to beat this version of Doom IMHO!!

Originally posted by the Darkone
SBP and WWH would be gnats to Doom, next to Thanos when obtaining power Doom is highly dangerous to the point he would fight on their level, than open a can a of whoop a$$. It would take Odin level power to beat this version of Doom IMHO!! It all depends on the potential of Plutionian and how much Doom is able to utilize of it.
It's hard to believe someone who can tank universe busters and move entire solar systems through space far faster than light would be a gnat any non abstract being.
I admit SBP may lose but it won't appear as if he's a gnat though.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't care what Galan say, Plutonian was getting punched so hard, solar systems were being destroyed and he withstood it. Negative. Solar systems were dying because the the stars of those systems were burned out by the being Tony was fighting (Modeus.)

It was clearly depicted here:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14078094_irr_35_020.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14078095_irr_35_021.jpg

If our sun were to instantly stop producing heat, earth would die as a result. Same thing here.

Originally posted by h1a8
It all depends on the potential of Plutionian and how much Doom is able to utilize of it.
It's hard to believe someone who can tank universe busters and move entire solar systems through space far faster than light would be a gnat any non abstract being.
I admit SBP may lose but it won't appear as if he's a gnat though. That's the point. Plutonian has powers that place him on the same level as high-level abstracts.

Basically at the level of Owen Reese at his most powerful.

Plutonian has the powers of a foundation reality manipulator.

Originally posted by Horrificus
That's the point. Plutonian has powers that place him on the same level as high-level abstracts.

Basically at the level of Owen Reese at his most powerful.

Plutonian has the powers of a foundation reality manipulator.

I never seen this after reading irredeemable. Remind me again. What was said or shown to suggest that?

Originally posted by h1a8
I never seen this after reading irredeemable. Remind me again. What was said or shown to suggest that? ability to manipulate time, space, matter, energy. The use of quantum theory as if it was his own little toolbox. I have posted this stuff in other threads, but I'm not sure which ones.


And, even before Plutonian understood what he was, you had something way over the top:
Take Owen Reese at his most powerful level. Have him use that power in a mostly "physical" way, (a la Zeus destroying Hulk), and you would end up with something like the Plutonian before his awakening.

Originally posted by Horrificus
ability to manipulate time, space, matter, energy. The use of quantum theory as if it was his own little toolbox.

I know that. Surfer can do those things. I was just looking for the level of his potential. For example, Surfer level, Galactus level, Franklin Richards level? I admit that Doom would win. Just not that SBP would be a gnat. That's crazy.

Tony had no stated power caps. His limited comprehension of his powerset was his only real limitation-- and even then, he was still uber as hell.

Basically it would be fighting MM at highest level, with the intelligence of Doom this is not even close!

He was uber as all get out.

Great Story.
Great character.
I guess we will probably be reading more about various "pieces" of him as they are created by other comic book companies, in other realities.

Sentry, Superman, Gladiator, Majestic, the Maximortal, the Public Spirit, Supreme, etc, etc, etc...

Originally posted by the Darkone
Basically it would be fighting MM at highest level, with the intelligence of Doom this is not even close!

No it wouldn't. There's no proof to his limit in comics. We just can't assume such a limit without proof. That would be a no limits fallacy.

I understand that he didn't reach his potential because of his own lack of comprehension. But that doesn't mean he can be at MM highest level.

We based things off feats and evidence through narration or plot. Nowhere is how powerful Plutonian can be. SBP is more powerful than standard Plutonian and thus Doom would turn the tables. But certainly not to a degree such that SBP would be a gnat. We need concrete proof of this and not speculation.

Originally posted by Galan007
Tony had no stated power caps. His limited comprehension of his powerset was his only real limitation-- and even then, he was still uber as hell.

Most powerful heroes have no stated power cap. Doesn't mean they can reach any level. We need concrete evidence of how powerful Plutonian can become. I accept he can become more powerful than SBP (initially he isn't) but I don't accept to a degree where SBP is a gnat. That's asinine.

Originally posted by h1a8
Most powerful heroes have no stated power cap. Doesn't mean they can reach any level. We need concrete evidence of how powerful Plutonian can become. I accept he can become more powerful than SBP (initially he isn't) but I don't accept to a degree where SBP is a gnat. That's asinine. Powerful enough to beat SBP and Hulk.

Originally posted by Mindset
Powerful enough to beat SBP and Hulk.

yes but that debate was over with a long time ago. UNTIL someone open their mouth and said SBP would be a gnat to Doom. That's when a new and different debate came into being.

Originally posted by Mindset
Powerful enough to beat SBP and Hulk.

Don't listen too h1a8, as usual he doesn't know WTH he is talking about and making himself foolish.

They can fight 100x, they will never win one fight. High end Tony powers were of the charts, it would take a sky father level or above to beat Doom with Tony powers plus his own.

I lay a Trap for Plutonian...WWH has been using those 24 hours to increase in power and be the distraction while SBP digs underground so when Plutonian lands SBP will grab his feet so Powered WWH can hit him...good plan huh? best yet...“Win or Lose”

Not sure if serious.

what?...i can't have it be the other WAY around...Plutonian can fly...and WWH increase in power would glow bright green...he can't hide...you gotta better plan? i'd like to hear it...

Originally posted by Villelater
I lay a Trap for Plutonian...WWH has been using those 24 hours to increase in power and be the distraction while SBP digs underground so when Plutonian lands SBP will grab his feet so Powered WWH can hit him...good plan huh? best yet...“Win or Lose” So, let me get this straight...
For 24 hours, the Hulk is, somehow, making himself angry.
While he is doing that, SBP takes his 24 hours to dig a hole.

At first glance, I wrote this post off as an obvious joke.
But, after reviewing it a few times, I think it is a fairly accurate assessment of the plan they would come up with.

But, to be fair, these are both very complex and capable characters.
They are both probably able to get mad AND dig a hole.

Lol....

Only Doom gets 24 hours anyway, plan aside....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol....

Only Doom gets 24 hours anyway, plan aside....
yeah i know...plan was interesting but still would of been a bust...im trying to make cool team attacks out of this topic just in case The Incredible Hulk&Superman: the man of steel ever can win by only working together...for other arguements not this one in particular

Originally posted by the Darkone
Don't listen too h1a8, as usual he doesn't know WTH he is talking about and making himself foolish.

They can fight 100x, they will never win one fight. High end Tony powers were of the charts, it would take a sky father level or above to beat Doom with Tony powers plus his own.

Based off speculation. You don't know how powerful Plutonian can be at his highest potential. I accept that he can beat SBP and WWH but that's it.
SBP is a legit skyfather level being. He has skyfather and abstract level feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Based off speculation. You don't know how powerful Plutonian can be at his highest potential. I accept that he can beat SBP and WWH but that's it.
SBP is a legit skyfather level being. He has skyfather and abstract level feats.

WTF? Prime...Skyfather? What in the greasy hell?

Originally posted by h1a8
Based off speculation. You don't know how powerful Plutonian can be at his highest potential. I accept that he can beat SBP and WWH but that's it.
SBP is a legit skyfather level being. He has skyfather and abstract level feats.

No he doesn't, Trans yes, Sky Father no. You are so foolish is pathetic!

Originally posted by the Darkone
No he doesn't, Trans yes, Sky Father no. You are so foolish is pathetic!

Trans beings don't tank universal explosions.
Trans beings don't move entire solar systems FTL like chess pieces.
Trans beings don't retcon shit with their punches.
Trans beings don't fight and do well against countless herald level beings at the same time.
Trans beings don't penetrate high herald level beings like they are made of nothing.

h1 logic ftw.

We gonna go that high feat route?

Herald beings don't knock out abstracts.

Herald beings don't upstage Odin in destroyer armor.

Herald beings don't ram through one side of galactus' head and come out the other.

Herald beings don't hit so hard they shatter reality.

Herald beings don't affect multiversal entities.

herp derp burp.

Thor's a phucking abstract niggas. and yes that makes everyone's whos recently ko'd him an abstract also.

Can't touch this.......HAMMA TIME...

Originally posted by h1a8
Trans beings don't tank universal explosions.
Trans beings don't move entire solar systems FTL like chess pieces.
Trans beings don't retcon shit with their punches.
Trans beings don't fight and do well against countless herald level beings at the same time.
Trans beings don't penetrate high herald level beings like they are made of nothing. Yes they do.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes they do.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Thanos can't even do those things.

Originally posted by Damborgson
h1 logic ftw.

We gonna go that high feat route?

1. Herald beings don't knock out abstracts.

2. Herald beings don't upstage Odin in destroyer armor.

3. Herald beings don't ram through one side of galactus' head and come out the other.

4. Herald beings don't hit so hard they shatter reality.

5. Herald beings don't affect multiversal entities.

herp derp burp.

Thor's a phucking abstract niggas. and yes that makes everyone's whos recently ko'd him an abstract also.
1. What herald being knocked out an abstract with their own power?
2. Be specific, what are you talking about.
3. Thor didn't do that. He simply damaged the side of Galactus head. Did you see a hole in Galactus head? Damaging Galactus armor by herald level beings has happen multiple times.
4. What herald level being shattered reality by only hitting hard (no magic, or plot devices)?
5. Why not? Just because you are multiversal doesn't mean you can't be affected by say a bullet. Wanda was multiversal but could be shot with an arrow or worst a bullet.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos can't even do those things. Yes he can.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. What herald being knocked out an abstract with their own power?
2. Be specific, what are you talking about.
3. Thor didn't do that. He simply damaged the side of Galactus head. Did you see a hole in Galactus head? Damaging Galactus armor by herald level beings has happen multiple times.
4. What herald level being shattered reality by only hitting hard (no magic, or plot devices)?
5. Why not? Just because you are multiversal doesn't mean you can't be affected by say a bullet. Wanda was multiversal but could be shot with an arrow or worst a bullet.

1. Thor

2. Lol and he says he knows about thor

3. Yes he did. no he didn't he went all the way through. no it hasn't.

4. Thor

5. Because it was Chaos king who no sold pre illumination chaos war Hercules, galactus, and multiple pantheons attacking at once. yet was given pause by Thor.

suck deez nutz.

Supporting 1/4 of the multiverse from collapsing unto itself is an abstract feat.

Originally posted by Damborgson
1. Thor

2. Lol and he says he knows about thor

3. Yes he did. no he didn't he went all the way through. no it hasn't.

4. Thor

5. Because it was Chaos king who no sold pre illumination chaos war Hercules, galactus, and multiple pantheons attacking at once. yet was given pause by Thor.

suck deez nutz.

1. I said with OWN POWER. Thor didn't do that with his own power.
2. I don't understand your argument (your words). Be specific of what you are talking about. My vocabulary in english is limited.

3. Show me the hole in Galactus brain's then

4. You don't get my subtle hints do you. I already know of the feats which you speak. Why in the hell did you think I said (no magic, no plot devices, just purely by hitting hard). Think man!

5. Thor giving him pause with Mjolnir is not Thor's own power. Galactus can give him pause too.

Originally posted by h1a8
Trans beings don't tank universal explosions.
Trans beings don't move entire solar systems FTL like chess pieces.
Trans beings don't retcon shit with their punches.
Trans beings don't fight and do well against countless herald level beings at the same time.
Trans beings don't penetrate high herald level beings like they are made of nothing.

Lol...Prime didn't move solar systems, he moved planets which interrupted the balance in "that" solar system.

What High Herald did Prime defeat?

Heralds penetrated other Heralds with attacks.

Heralds has punched through time and dimensions with their strength.

Lol...numerous of Heralds has done well against team of Heralds.

Prime still had some of the amp in him during that explosion.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. I said with OWN POWER. Thor didn't do that with his own power.
2. I don't understand your argument (your words). Be specific of what you are talking about. My vocabulary in english is limited.

3. Show me the hole in Galactus brain's then

4. You don't get my subtle hints do you. I already know of the feats which you speak. Why in the hell did you think I said (no magic, no plot devices, just purely by hitting hard). Think man!

5. Thor giving him pause with Mjolnir is not Thor's own power. Galactus can give him pause too.

1. he threw his hammer at it. Does Mjolnir not qualify as standar gear anymore lol?

2. The celestial fight? Read up kiddo.

3. The art doesn't show that. It shows Thor going in one side and appearing on the other.

4. I know exactly what you were saying, but since magic and plot device were not involved in the feat, it just made you look retarded.

5. Yes it is. Mjolnir is a part of Thor and part of his standard gear. Well he failed at it so you're wrong.

continue sucking on deez nutz.

I want to play the skyfather game.

Gladiator was hit by a blast that had enough power to shed a solar system.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/wtfshipmh5.jpg/

After "tanking" the attack, he contained that b***** to the point that it created another star. After containing a blast of that level, he wasn't done bragging. The purple smurf flew out of the blast at 100 times the speed of light.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/370/wtfship2tj8.jpg/

Can I get wha wha.

reported for going off topic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Supporting 1/4 of the multiverse from collapsing unto itself is an abstract feat.

1. Is Thor corps even canon?
2. Not only that was a magic based feat but it was unquantifiable. Who knows what type of force was needed (if any at all) to prevent various planes of reality (not the multiverse) from collasping. After all, the walls were not completely destroyed just weakened (reached their limit). That means the walls could have been still doing the majority of the work and only needed a small boost (relatively speaking). When a force reaches it's limit then that means it is equal to what it is going against (not less than).

Originally posted by Damborgson
1. he threw his hammer at it. Does Mjolnir not qualify as standar gear anymore lol?

2. The celestial fight? Read up kiddo.

3. The art doesn't show that. It shows Thor going in one side and appearing on the other.

4. I know exactly what you were saying, but since magic and plot device were not involved in the feat, it just made you look retarded.

5. Yes it is. Mjolnir is a part of Thor and part of his standard gear. Well he failed at it so you're wrong.

continue sucking on deez nutz.

1. Thor koing an abstract by throwing Mjolnir. Show me.

Also the hammer is not Thor's own power. Yes it is standard gear but that doesn't make it his power. The hammer can be knocked away, temporarily trapped, or someone just can act before Thor decides to do anything exotic. Thus it is relevant whether Mjolnir is Thor's own power or not.

2. Oh, didn't understand your words. You damn well I know the feat you speak of. Who doesn't? Nothing wrong with being specific. Although PIS (which isn't allowed to be used as evidence here) I didn't really see Thor do anything beyond the Destroyer. Thor tanked a few blasts, that was it. Destroyer easily sliced off an arm. Destroyer could have easily threw the sword into one of the Celestials. Sword doesn't weigh much.

3. That doesn't mean jack. I saw no hole in Galactus head. It's best to believe that Thor simply cracked his helmet and stunned him.

4. Are you a con artist? You purposely not mention the feat you are using so that you can twist it to your liking. I'm not going for that. Mention the feat dude and stop playing.

5. Galactus failing at it doesn't mean he can't (especially in a forum fight).
Otherwise, the feat is PIS and can't be used. Again, the hammer is not Thor's own power.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Prime didn't move solar systems, he moved planets which interrupted the balance in "that" solar system.

What High Herald did Prime defeat?

Heralds penetrated other Heralds with attacks.

Heralds has punched through time and dimensions with their strength.

Lol...numerous of Heralds has done well against team of Heralds.

Prime still had some of the amp in him during that explosion.

Prime moving a single planet FTL in little time through space requires more than thousands of planet weight of force. A typical solar system is less than a thousand planet masses.

Read! I said penetrated like they are made of nothing (an image, less than an insect). No Trans being can penetrate a herald like they are made of nothing. You would always see some type of resistance of the attack going through them or damaging them.

Heralds have not punched through dimensions with their strength alone (no plot device).

Give me examples of a herald doing well against a team of many high heralds.

No he didn't. He had it burned out of him. Did you read the comic?

Originally posted by carver9
I want to play the skyfather game.

Gladiator was hit by a blast that had enough power to shed a solar system.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/wtfshipmh5.jpg/

After "tanking" the attack, he contained that b***** to the point that it created another star. After containing a blast of that level, he wasn't done bragging. The purple smurf flew out of the blast at 100 times the speed of light.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/370/wtfship2tj8.jpg/

Can I get wha wha.

You mean half a solar system (statements).
Several heralds have survived supernovas. No biggie.
Bet you didn't know that black holes are far more devastating. They can destroy thousands of solar systems easily.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Thor koing an abstract by throwing Mjolnir. Show me.

Also the hammer is not Thor's own power. Yes it is standard gear but that doesn't make it his power. The hammer can be knocked away, temporarily trapped, or someone just can act before Thor decides to do anything exotic. Thus it is relevant whether Mjolnir is Thor's own power or not.

2. Oh, didn't understand your words. You damn well I know the feat you speak of. Who doesn't? Nothing wrong with being specific. Although PIS (which isn't allowed to be used as evidence here) I didn't really see Thor do anything beyond the Destroyer. Thor tanked a few blasts, that was it. Destroyer easily sliced off an arm. Destroyer could have easily threw the sword into one of the Celestials. Sword doesn't weigh much.

3. That doesn't mean jack. I saw no hole in Galactus head. It's best to believe that Thor simply cracked his helmet and stunned him.

4. Are you a con artist? You purposely not mention the feat you are using so that you can twist it to your liking. I'm not going for that. Mention the feat dude and stop playing.

5. Galactus failing at it doesn't mean he can't (especially in a forum fight).
Otherwise, the feat is PIS and can't be used. Again, the hammer is not Thor's own power.

1. It was the Phoenix force during AvX.

yes it is. The nice rule of standard gear is that Thor gets to use it for his feats. It's as much a part of him as Wolvies claws are and caps' shield is for their respective owners. Deal with it.

2. Ah sorry for the confusion then. Oh so you knew exactly what I was saying and decided to troll a bit? k. Nice lowballing. Thor broke armor that the destroyer failed to break, thor took blats that blew holes in the destroyer, and thor impaled arishem while horribly damaged. It's not pis, it's a high showing. And it's consistent with Thor's history.

3. It means plenty. The impact point is on one side of the head, Thor comes out the other. If you can't see that, that really isn't my fault and I don't need to spoon feed it you any more.

4. Lol calm down. I did mention the feat. Exactly as it was.
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6919/shattersreality2.jpg

there ya go. I don't make things up or twist them to fit my need. This is the internet, and that would be stupid.

5. Well produce a scan that shows him doing it and you'd be right. It's a high feat and it can and has been used. Deal with it.

It's his tool that he gets for forum fights and feats. So whats your point?

Originally posted by Damborgson
1. It was the Phoenix force during AvX.

yes it is. The nice rule of standard gear is that Thor gets to use it for his feats. It's as much a part of him as Wolvies claws are and caps' shield is for their respective owners. Deal with it.

2. Ah sorry for the confusion then. Oh so you knew exactly what I was saying and decided to troll a bit? k. Nice lowballing. Thor broke armor that the destroyer failed to break, thor took blats that blew holes in the destroyer, and thor impaled arishem while horribly damaged. It's not pis, it's a high showing. And it's consistent with Thor's history.

3. It means plenty. The impact point is on one side of the head, Thor comes out the other. If you can't see that, that really isn't my fault and I don't need to spoon feed it you any more.

4. Lol calm down. I did mention the feat. Exactly as it was.
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6919/shattersreality2.jpg

there ya go. I don't make things up or twist them to fit my need. This is the internet, and that would be stupid.

5. Well produce a scan that shows him doing it and you'd be right. It's a high feat and it can and has been used. Deal with it.

It's his tool that he gets for forum fights and feats. So whats your point?

1. Phoenix force is not an abstract being when it manifests a physical form (it has material). I seen other showings of it getting owned by entities of herald level or below (like a starship). But Thor didn't ko it (like it became unconscious). He simply separated it (as it was pure energy form) and it reformed.

Dude you are arguing something I'm not even discussing. I'm not saying Thor won't get to use his hammer in a forum fight. I'm saying that since it's not his own power then it can be a liability if he doesn't have it (getting knocked from his hand, trapped, making actions before Thor with hammer, etc.). Remember my point about having TOAA power but being shot by a bullet?

2. I didn't have a clue what you were talking about because I didn't understand your words. How many times do I have to say that? Be specific means be more clear so that I know what you are talking about.

3. Yep and artists draw things that can be interpreted differently, especially with incorrect art. I seen examples, where the orientation was drawn wrong in one panel from the next. Thus it is possible. The fact we see no hole in Galactus head proves he didn't go through it.

3. Rage and Jake twist things the most about Thor. Trust me. It was many times someone exaggerated a feat or twisted it about Thor I looked it up and found them to utter con artists. In some aspects, I caught them plain lying. With that said, you twisting a little. The feat is ambiguous. What was the nature of the monster or the hammer strike? Magical right? Could Thor achieve the same thing striking a mountain with a adamantium hammer? Hell no.

5. You don't know what PIS is do you? Spider-man vs. Firelord is the biggest example. Galactus dwarfs Thor more than Firelord dwarfs Spiderman. Yet it isn't PIS if Galactus can't truly affect Chaos King more than Thor?
Either Galactus can affect Chaos king more than Thor or it is PIS and can't be used. You don't see people using Spiderman vs. Firelord do you? Spider-man affected Firelord more than Thor affected him.

The point is to show that Thor is still a herald level being. My point about the hammer is the same point about having omnipotent power but being able to be easily destroyed. If Thor did the feat by his own power then that power can't be taken away from him in a forum fight. Thus making him a higher being than a herald. The reason why Thor is a herald is because of his character, because of his weaknesses (lack of speed, can be destroyed like a herald, and can be seperated from his hammer).

Power output alone doesn't make you higher than what you are unless the power is from you.