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Made the gauntlet strongest to weakest - to see which lucky little weakling could topple Luke over, after le Force god had had enough.

- This is Luke Skywalker - at the height of his power (Current LotF) - he is well-rested, has been fed well, and ready for some duels to the death.

His mindset is that he will do whatever it takes to remove his opponents.

His opponents want to murder him.

Setting: Lars Homestead - Tatooine

The series of battles happens on the sands around the moisture farm.

After Luke kills each challenge - the new challenge appears 10 seconds afterward and this keeps going on until someone makes Luke fall.

1. DE Sidious

2. (Dynasty of Evil) Darth Bane

3. Darth Vitiate

4. Darth Caedus

5. Darth Plageuis

6. Exar Kun

(Now we throw some Jedi in, assuming Luke is still alive.)

7. Peak Mara Jade and Peak Kyle Katarn

8. NJO Corran Horn

9. Kam Solusar

10. Padawan Anakin Skywalker w/lightsaber

I say he gets to 4 - and Caedus puts a boot through his head. xD

Your strongest to weakest arrangement is questionable in the light of canonical information.

Sidious, Vitiate and Plagueis - each have been labelled as most powerful Sith Lord in history in one way or form in canonical sources or officially promoted as cream of the crop. So the top order among the Sith should involve these 3.

As far as combat is concerned, these 3 Sith Lords will posit major challenge to Luke even in one-on-one.

I doubt that any Force-wielder can handle these 3 in a row. Not even Luke at his prime.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your strongest to weakest arrangement is questionable in the light of canonical information.

Sidious, Vitiate and Plagueis - each have been labelled as most powerful Sith Lord in history in one way or form in canonical sources or officially promoted as cream of the crop. So the top order among the Sith should involve these 3.


I thought the same thing while thinking it up. But then I remembered Bane's almost unparalleled lightsaber-feat and his insane Force technique/ability/power and knew he was likely above Plagueis and Vitiate.

I put DE Sid's above him, because I knew that was the most likely one to be above him.

Caedus is weaker than Vitiate (in the Force, at least), but probably more powerful than Plagueis (overall) - seeing as how he dispatched a Peak Mara and Peak Kyle (anyone familiar with their games/books and has followed their exploits closely is aware of how broken they became) and gave Force God Luke hell - so it likely puts him around Plagueis.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

As far as combat is concerned, these 3 Sith Lords will posit major challenge to Luke even in one-on-one.

I doubt that any Force-wielder can handle these 3 in a row. Not even Luke at his prime.


Yeah, Sidious and then Bane would definitely wear him down, and deplete his Force reserves.

Makes me wonder if Vitiate could mind**** him, afterwards.

10 second break? Stops at 2.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I thought the same thing while thinking it up. But then I remembered Bane's almost unparalleled lightsaber-feat and his insane Force technique/ability/power and knew he was likely above Plagueis and Vitiate.
Vitiate primarily focused on developing Force powers or increasing his command of the Force. His command of the Force was incredible by all accounts; you can notice that how long he lasted against all odds. More then once, Vitiate has taken on multiple powerful individuals simultaneously and prevailed. (Sources: SWTOR - Revan and SWTOR Encyclopedia) In combat ability, no other Sith would be a match for Vitiate accept maybe Sidious (at his prime).

As far as Plagueis is concerned, it has been hinted by a Star Wars author that he could handle Sidious in fair cirumstances (PT incarnation at least whom Yoda failed to defeat). Sidious realized this and decided to take Plagueis out "in his sleep" as he puts.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I put DE Sid's above him, because I knew that was the most likely one to be above him.
Bane is certainly among the most powerful Sith Lords in history (met the criteria of Sith'ari); but not as strong as you seem to imply. After all, his apprentice defeated him.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Caedus is weaker than Vitiate (in the Force, at least), but probably more powerful than Plagueis (overall) - seeing as how he dispatched a Peak Mara and Peak Kyle (anyone familiar with their games/books and has followed their exploits closely is aware of how broken they became) and gave Force God Luke hell - so it likely puts him around Plagueis.
I can understand that a few Sith maybe a able to contend with Plagueis. But it is possible that Plagueis is more powerful or officially believed to be so.

As far as Luke is concerned, lot of hype surrounds him. He certainly can hold his own against many odds but this doesn't means that he can just walkover other powerful individuals in the manner as some fans claim. Even Luke has some realistic limits.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Yeah, Sidious and then Bane would definitely wear him down, and deplete his Force reserves.
Agreed.

It is possible for Sidious to kill Luke with his extreme Force powers (e.g. Force storm), if he gets the chance to unleash such powers. I mean, let us be realistic here; IMO, this duel alone can end either in favor of Luke or Sidious. But even if Luke is more likely to defeat Sidious (at his prime), he wouldn't go much further. He is screwed in this gauntlet.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Makes me wonder if Vitiate could mind**** him, afterwards.
Certainly possible.

If Vitiate could mind-dominate 8000 Sith Lords simultaneously....... You can do the math.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

As far as Plagueis is concerned, it has been hinted by a Star Wars author that he could handle Sidious in fair cirumstances (PT incarnation at least whom Yoda failed to defeat). Sidious realized this and decided to take Plagueis out "in his sleep" as he puts.


At least at the point of the kill, in PM. There was several years between that and the final confrontation in which he had to build himself up.

By the end of the PT, he'd had more time to train and some additional experience.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate primarily focused on developing Force powers or increasing his command of the Force. His command of the Force was incredible by all accounts; you can notice that how long he lasted against all odds. More then once, Vitiate has taken on multiple powerful individuals simultaneously and prevailed. (Sources: SWTOR - Revan and SWTOR Encyclopedia) In combat ability, no other Sith would be a match for Vitiate accept maybe Sidious (at his prime).
As far as Plagueis is concerned, it has been hinted by a Star Wars author that he could handle Sidious in fair cirumstances (PT incarnation at least whom Yoda failed to defeat). Sidious realized this and decided to take Plagueis out "in his sleep" as he puts.


I can't recall; does Vitiate have any Lightsaber feats, or no?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Bane is certainly among the most powerful Sith Lords in history (met the criteria of Sith'ari); but not as strong as you seem to imply. After all, his apprentice defeated him.

Nah, he pretty much allowed her to defeat him - If he had gone all out, he would have ripped her to pieces.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I can understand that a few Sith maybe a able to contend with Plagueis. But it is possible that Plagueis is more powerful or officially believed to be so.
As far as Luke is concerned, lot of hype surrounds him. He certainly can hold his own against many odds but this doesn't means that he can just walkover other powerful individuals in the manner as some fans claim. Even Luke has some realistic limits.

Hmm, such as?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Agreed.

It is possible for Sidious to kill Luke with his extreme Force powers (e.g. Force storm), if he gets the chance to unleash such powers. I mean, let us be realistic here; IMO, this duel alone can end either in favor of Luke or Sidious. But even if Luke is more likely to defeat Sidious (at his prime), he wouldn't go much further. He is screwed in this gauntlet.


I'm no Luke fanboy (partially why I loaded the deck against him, here) but I'm pretty sure he could at least get through Sidious and Bane.
Luke has his own share of hax, notably the ability to Foldspace, which would help him against Sidious's other destructive capabilities.

He'd beat Sidious down - especially since they aren't fighting on a Dark side Force Nexus. (Tatooine)
And Luke has the home-field advantage - he's fighting in his childhood home.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Certainly possible.

If Vitiate could mind-dominate 8000 Sith Lords simultaneously....... You can do the math.

I forget if he was able to quickly dominate Revan, though.

He could probably dominate an exhausted Luke.

I'd actually be willing to argue that Palpatine was possibly the most powerful sith lord ever as of ROTS. He has some of the greatest speed feats in the mythos that only very few have matched. His lightning was intense enough to reduce a sith spawn to ash, and strong enough to blast Yoda's lightsaber right out of his hands. He, along with Plagueis, managed to shift the force out of balance through a ritual (galactic scale force usage; possibly universal scale). For years Palpatine was able to cloud the minds of the entire jedi order (galactic scale). Also through the use of a ritual, Palpatine was able to manipulate the emotions of possibly every force user in the galaxy (I say "possibly every force user" because the Sithisis comic shows Padme grabbing at her stomache, implying that even her unborn twins were affected by the ritual, as were some of the younglings who weren't even participating in the war. Either way it's an impressive feat and another galactic scale one). His TK feats include: easily bringing down part of a ceiling, casually ripping senate pods from their restraints, ragdolling a powerful individual such as Darth Maul (according to Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy), etc...


Also, I think the gauntlet makes sense.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I can't recall; does Vitiate have any Lightsaber feats, or no?
No detailed lightsaber feats known as of yet. However, his command of the Force is at such a level that he doesn't feels the need to use one.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Nah, he pretty much allowed her to defeat him - If he had gone all out, he would have ripped her to pieces.
No, Bane was serious. He couldn't afford to pass on his legacy to an individual who would not be his match.

These comments give a hint:

"I have surpassed you, Bane. Now I am the Master." (Zannah)

"Then prove it." (Bane)

Zannah did not match Bane in raw power but made-up for her weakness with her command of Sith Sorcery. She proved to be better in taking advantage of the dark side nexus. Still I acknowledge that she may not be able to defeat Bane in evey given situation or region. Bane with Orbalisks would be specially interesting to consider.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Hmm, such as?
Check the response of member (Arhael) in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=572296&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by Rookwood
I'm no Luke fanboy (partially why I loaded the deck against him, here) but I'm pretty sure he could at least get through Sidious and Bane.
Luke has his own share of hax, notably the ability to Foldspace, which would help him against Sidious's other destructive capabilities.
If Luke uses Foldspace, he will be out of the picture? No.

As an example, Revan (apparently) used this ability to escape from a Sith Strike Team.

Originally posted by Rookwood
He'd beat Sidious down - especially since they aren't fighting on a Dark side Force Nexus. (Tatooine)
And Luke has the home-field advantage - he's fighting in his childhood home.
Absolutely possible. Yes, Sidious doesn't have home-field advantage here.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I forget if he was able to quickly dominate Revan, though.
He broke Revan and Malak simultaneously very quickly during his first encounter with these two.

Revan, later on, managed to safe himself due to his special/unique abilities that he developed with passage of time. Revan' command of the Force is no joke. Some people underestimate this guy without logical basis.

Originally posted by Rookwood
He could probably dominate an exhausted Luke.
Vitiate has broken even the most ardent of the Jedi. Luke is in for a surprise here.

Also, 8000 force-wielders is a figure not to overlook.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Also, I think the gauntlet makes sense.

If the gauntlet is reverse-ordered, Plagueis should come before Bane, Caedus, and Vitiate (who should follow in that order). Kun's placement vis a vis Vitiate would be interesting, alas Stealth Moose is AWOL.

Originally posted by Based
10 second break? Stops at 2.

no

You're right.

I'd forgotten how weak DE Sideous is.

I just checked and there's no Star Wars character called Sideous.

excellent

Your records are incomplete.

I hope you have to work another long-ass shift. Your suffering arouses me.

What a spiteful thing to say. We're not friends anymore. Good day, sr.

If Palpatine catches Luke offguard, he might be able to stop Luke. This IS DE Sidious. If Sidious can blitz Luke and overwhelm him, Palpatine wins. Even if he DOES fall, Luke would be exhausted and Bane finishes Luke off.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No detailed lightsaber feats known as of yet. However, his command of the Force is at such a level that he doesn't feels the need to use one.


Mhm.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No, Bane was serious. He couldn't afford to pass on his legacy to an individual who would not be his match.

These comments give a hint:

"I have surpassed you, Bane. Now I am the Master." (Zannah)

"Then prove it." (Bane)

Zannah did not match Bane in raw power but made-up for her weakness with her command of Sith Sorcery. She proved to be better in taking advantage of the dark side nexus. Still I acknowledge that she may not be able to defeat Bane in evey given situation or region. Bane with Orbalisks would be specially interesting to consider.


Yeah, I think most times, Bane takes it. And he wouldn't need Orbalisks.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Check the response of member (Arhael) in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=572296&pagenumber=1

I don't rely on mentally-challenged people as references.

No matter how likeable they are.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

If Luke uses Foldspace, he will be out of the picture? No.

As an example, Revan (apparently) used this ability to escape from a Sith Strike Team.

- Right, Fold-space obviously allows you to teleport.

My point was that, when Luke can simply Fold-space his lightsaber into someone's head instantaniously - that's something to consider.

He's basically like Goku, with his Instant-Transmission - thanks shitty LotF writers.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Absolutely possible. Yes, Sidious doesn't have home-field advantage here.

Yep.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He broke Revan and Malak simultaneously very quickly during his first encounter with these two.

Revan, later on, managed to safe himself due to his special/unique abilities that he developed with passage of time. Revan' command of the Force is no joke. Some people underestimate this guy without logical basis.


Vitiate has broken even the most ardent of the Jedi. Luke is in for a surprise here.

Also, 8000 force-wielders is a figure not to overlook.

Good points. I think mind-dominating an exausted Luke - albeit a Force God one, is very possible.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
If Palpatine catches Luke offguard, he might be able to stop Luke. This IS DE Sidious. If Sidious can blitz Luke and overwhelm him, Palpatine wins. Even if he DOES fall, Luke would be exhausted and Bane finishes Luke off.

Luke should have no trouble at all in the sabers-department, with Sidious.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If the gauntlet is reverse-ordered, Plagueis should come before Bane, Caedus, and Vitiate (who should follow in that order). Kun's placement vis a vis Vitiate would be interesting, alas Stealth Moose is AWOL.


You think Bane should come before Caedus?


As for Kun and Vitiate, I'd say Vitiate is definitely more powerful and probably more knowledgeable in the ways of the dark side. But as far as combat, Kun is probably the more threatening opponent here. I don't think Vitiate's mind powers are strong enough to affect Luke. Revan has proved that Vitiate can't instantly take control of a prepared strong will, seeing how Revan was able to resist Vitiate's mind powers long enough to floor the dark lord, which would be more than enough time for Luke to blitz him. But again, I don't see Vitiate's mind powers affecting Luke at all; Luke has a strong will and is a powerful telepath himself, and he's also had plenty of experience with other powerful telepath's (Palpatine and Joruus C'boath).

IDK, what do you think?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You think Bane should come before Caedus?

^Since your online, state your opinion Nephthys.

You forget UnuThul, who was bolstered by the collective powers of The Colony. Luke may eventually succumb to telepathic control, but not quick enough for Vitiate to score a victory.

As far as Caedus and Bane, Caedus is good, but his only two good showings IMHO are beating Kyle and a couple of random Jedi and holding his own against a crazed Luke actively courting battle. He'd give Bane hell, but I'm inclined to say he'd lose.

I'm inclined to agree, although I'm not sure Caedus would present that much of a fight tbh.

And that's why I placed Bane before Caedus.

Loses at 3. Maybe 2.

The order is off if it's supposed to be reversed. Nonetheless:



He probably wins, and it might not actually be as difficult as you'd expect. He dispatches Palpatine in DE without suffering significant injuries, and it isn't implied that he's utterly drained or burned out. And I think LotF Luke > Amped! DE Luke, seeing as how amped! De Luke just has some potential unlocked by Leia, and I doubt that potential > 30+ years of growth in both the Force and technical skill.

One could point to his duel with Caedus, but Caedus has an especially aggressive fighting style replete with h2h strikes Sidious doesn't really use, and Luke started that with a bad knee.

Sidious may try to engage in a Force battle, but even then, that isn't likely to severely damage Luke.



Luke oneshots. Actually, he could use this fodder to cheat on his recovery time and just pin Bane in place while taking a rest.



Vitiate isn't his sith name. Regardless, now that he's healed from his Palpatine fight thanks to Bane's nap time, Luke can just startle Vitiate with electric judgment/telekinesis/projectiles/illusions, rush him, and eviscerate him up close. He can pull this off because he's faster than Vitiate, he's a more competent combatant, he's more powerful, and he's obviously deadlier in melee.

As this is Vitiate, his status below Palpatine is canon, and so it's tough to argue for him doing better than Sidious, given that his inferiority in other areas like dueling ability just compound upon his canonical inferiority in power.



He's probably a little tired at this point, although not necessarily by that much; Dooku can replenish himself within seconds with the Force, and Luke has some pretty impressive stamina feats in TUF and FotJ. Luke beats Caedus pretty convincingly in LotF despite having a bad knee and facing environmental hazzards; are a bad knee and an environmental hazzard bigger handicaps than the fatigue of facing Vitiate?

I'd say so. Luke had fought through thousands of Vong in TUF and could still take on seven slayers by himself, when one infected slayer was able to defeat Kyp Durron. He can beat Caedus.

Heck, if he gets the quick draw, he might even be able to ragdoll Caedus outright.



He stands a pretty good chance of losing here from fatigue, especially seeing that Caedus tends to get pretty physically brutal.

Again, Luke's performances in TUF and FotJ make it apparent that he can fight powerful enemies for prolonged periods of time, so it isn't a given that he'll stop here. His best shot is honestly to have taken care of Caedus via the Force, which I do believe that he can do if he doesn't hold back, and then try to blindside Plagueis with electric judgment and other Force abilities.

I still think he gets the majority. Luke > DE Sidious > RotJ Sidious > RotS Sidious > TPM Sidious >= Plagueis is a pretty big chain.



Ehhhhh he might be tired now. I'd say Luke still has a majority if he hasn't held back and has gone immediately for the kill via electric judgment + speed blitz in his previous duels. Otherwise fatigue might be catching up to him.

Again, he fights through thousands of Vong in TFU, which likely took a longer time than he's been fighting for up to this point.



He can potentially ragdoll them. Either way he's simply too powerful for this duo.



He ragdolls him and uses the spare time to recover.



Full power Luke oneshots.



Oneshots.

So it's a matter of making it through Vitiate-Caedus-Plagueis-Kun. Vitiate probably won't fatigue him that much as the fight will be over fairly quickly, and he can probably dominate Caedus with the Force. Plagueis is a legitimate threat, but I don't think he'll fatigue Luke enough for Kun to overpower him.

So, Luke may clear if he doesn't hold back and plays it smart. If he jobs and decides to duel them while holding back like he seems to do for some reason, he dies by Plagueis.