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Alright in this thread Peter and Steve take different paths instead of Peter getting the powers of the Spider Steve does, and instead of Steve getting the Super Solider Serum Peter gets it. Who would have used the different powers the best?

Rogers not really a discussion, he's more experienced, better skilled, and in all honesty unless the American spirit is one of the sss powers, Pete won't even gain caps insane damage soak

Peter is smarter and much better with prep. A lot of his recent innovations and wins have nothing to do with his powers. He'd do better, because the ceiling on his prep is higher. Steve would just get better physical stats. He'd be more effective, but not ridiculously so. Pete's physical dropoff would be somewhat noticeable; but again, we're talking about small degrees compared to prep potential. Pete remains the more dangerous opponent overall.

Peter would do excellent.

Seeing as he would be getting an upgrade.





Come at me.

Steve training was with the SSS if he doesn't get the serum he doesn't get the training.

Cap would still keep his fighting spirit and work ethic. Cap would still train and he would also have the spider sense at his disposal.

Steve. Even with Parkers prep Steve is still more of a threat. I can potentially see him putting down class 100s with his stat.increase

Cap wouldn't get the martial arts training though.

Guys, remember, we're not talking about who would win, but who would outperform the other by a larger margin in the opposite body. Cap would be a more disciplined spider-fighter. Pete would be less exciting physically, but still brilliant inventor.

ACTUALLY, would Cap even do better? Web-shooters...nonexistent. Tracers, ditto. Various suits and augmentations, same. Pheremone blockers, freeze cannisters, sonic repellents, etc. I could go on. So, for example, when Pete recently no-sold Hydroman with a dinky little web-shot that changed his entire physical structure...how does Cap even win that fight?! Or when he countered Urich's sonic scream, an attack that nearly KO'd him every other time....how does Cap win? He doesn't. He'd wade in with his American flag and get his ass handed to him. Or the "Ends of the Earth" suit, that was armor + counters for about a dozen different power sets of his villains.

Steve's a dinosaur compared to Pete. I don't mean in age, but in technical versatility. He'd be a webless Spider-Man with slightly better discipline and tactical intelligence. Pete would trick himself out and probably end up being more powerful than Cap in SM's body.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Steve. Even with Parkers prep Steve is still more of a threat. I can potentially see him putting down class 100s with his stat.increase

You mean like Pete has in the past? We're not talking about a huge leap, just a small one.

Originally posted by golem370
Steve training was with the SSS if he doesn't get the serum he doesn't get the training.

In that case, this thread is a stomp in favor of Parker.

Well maybe I mean he might learn to fight well as Spider-Man. Steve would have all of Spider-Man powers while Pete would have the peak human abilities plus his fighting training and the shield

Originally posted by golem370
Well maybe I mean he might learn to fight well as Spider-Man.

Sure, he might, and probably would. It wouldn't be a huge increase in overall power, though, and the lack of any tech would hurt him. I think Steve's Spider-Man would be less powerful than Peter's, for the aforementioned reasons. There's dozens of fights he's won ONLY because he's a brilliant inventor, that would have been impossible with his power set alone regardless of skill. Not to mention the hundreds of times webbing has saved him, which Steve wouldn't have.

meh i just dont see it....parker didnt start raking up the prep till recently, for years he's been portrayed as smart but was always depicted as lax...if steve gets the same basic tools as peter, imo he still tools him.

I been wondering this when Steve became Captain America did his mind also become peak human? I would see Steve still going with a USA theme outfit because he was gun ho before the SSS right? If I made this Spider-Man with the webbing apart of his abilities it would make it a closer fight right? Peter made his tools aka webbing tracers armor and stuff like that.

@Sin: It's mostly because peter didn't have the resources to pull off awesome prep feats until recently(by the way, he still had his prep feats before getting hired at the lab) but he's a legit Marvel genius. If anything he could remake the spider armor that made him as strong as the rhino, regardless of which body he's in.

Peter parker easy. Because if you wanna choose the characters b4 they got there powers peter parker would win easy steve rodgers was skinny and scary

If Steve got spider powers back in the day instead of the SSS, he still would have joined the army and got trained.

Or dissect him to find out where he got his super powers.

Are you making a ruling as the OP that Steve doesn't get to join the Army and get trainning?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
meh i just dont see it....parker didnt start raking up the prep till recently, for years he's been portrayed as smart but was always depicted as lax...if steve gets the same basic tools as peter, imo he still tools him.

What do you mean by "tools him?" Because...

Originally posted by Digi
...remember, we're not talking about who would win, but who would outperform the other by a larger margin in the opposite body.

If nothing else, Pete invented web-shooters WAY back, so there's that. Personally, I think webbing is a bigger deal than any meager skill increase Cap might provide. And keep in mind, according to OP, Cap doesn't even get his training, which is the only thing that was keeping this close imo.

Also, the point needs to be made, Pete's recent prep feats have been good, but they are his actual feats. Trying to discount them entirely is incomplete. Only choosing to look at an era that helps your opinion is, well, selection bias.

No I am not saying he can't join the army

Im not discounting his feats digi, the are admirable. I dont completely agree with them because they seem out of character (armor really?) but the are his feats. I also didnt see it in the op where it says Steve doesnt get trained...it just states that their powers are swapped...not the means by which they became who they are.

Steve.

Combat wise straight-up Cap. Spider-powers with better strategic thinking.

he'll make up somehow for the lost webbing, tracers, etc with good ole fashion guns. Ultimately will suffer hampered mobility though.

Combatwise in the long run and overall though, Peter. Guy invented Parker Particles (the thing the gave Alpha his powers), so no contest really.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Im not discounting his feats digi, the are admirable. I dont completely agree with them because they seem out of character (armor really?) but the are his feats. I also didnt see it in the op where it says Steve doesnt get trained...it just states that their powers are swapped...not the means by which they became who they are.

Couple posts down, he clarified. No worries for not having seen it. I don't think it changes the outcome of the thread though. Pete knows kung-fu now, so the skill gap is smaller than ever. Even if Cap were as skilled as he is now, he's minus webs and various other gadgets.

It's completely in character for Pete. Have you read much of his recent stuff? Mostly, he had a lot more time freed up to invent because he got a job as a science geek, not as a teacher or photographer.

Though, he's been inventing spot-solutions to problems for years, just not with as much regularity. It's not any different than what he's done in the past, it's just at a faster tempo.

I think he'd join the Army just like last time, at which point he'd just be a different kind of super-soldier and any tech he needs would easily be supplied by the government or future teammates.

Originally posted by golem370
Alright in this thread Peter and Steve take different paths instead of Peter getting the powers of the Spider Steve does, and instead of Steve getting the Super Solider Serum Peter gets it.

Originally posted by golem370
Who would have used the different powers the best?

The main thing for me is who would have made Better use of the powers they got...

Spider-Man is essentially the same. A scientist but with less durability, speed, strength.... Arguably Spider-Man is smart enough to pull a Tony stark... But given his past he has used his intelligence over the years...

If anything Spider-Man pulls off all the same feats he already has... But to less effect...

Steve however increases his damage, speed, strength etc... There are issues where Steve learned martial arts easily by studying alien forms... He isn't an idiot...

Parker dies.

Originally posted by Digi
Couple posts down, he clarified. No worries for not having seen it. I don't think it changes the outcome of the thread though. Pete knows kung-fu now, so the skill gap is smaller than ever. Even if Cap were as skilled as he is now, he's minus webs and various other gadgets.

It's completely in character for Pete. Have you read much of his recent stuff? Mostly, he had a lot more time freed up to invent because he got a job as a science geek, not as a teacher or photographer.

Though, he's been inventing spot-solutions to problems for years, just not with as much regularity. It's not any different than what he's done in the past, it's just at a faster tempo.

Some, not much. I was " parkered" out this summer with all the teams he's been on and this tech phase he's going thru...I'm sure its impressive though

In these recent arcs it was implied that he was never a big-time inventor not because he didn't haev the brain power, but because his life pulled him in too many other directions. Based on recent tech showings, what he's done with relatively little time as a "free" inventor, there's a damn good case to be made that the most powerful Peter Parker might be the one who never got spider powers in the first place, and could focus solely on science.

Of course Cap will be physically superior because of the new body. But he loses the "who does better" battle in SO many other ways. Peter would do better because, frankly, he's a better hero. Smarter, more clever and ingenious. Unless this is an "inspire-off" Cap has nothing to hang his hat on, and would quickly die in one of the hundreds of situations where Spidey's web-shooters saved his and others' lives.

Why couldn't Cap get martial arts training on his own? This a stupid argument. Cap is obviously, more inclined than Pete to seek out that sort of training and maximize his abilities. With that training stacked on top of the spider man abilities, where talking Cap with Karate Kid level feats.

Parker wins he has the shield and and he cam invent other things to help him also

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
where talking Cap with Karate Kid level feats.

No, we're really not.

Maybe not KK level, but several levels above the feats he's pulling off now.

Originally posted by Digi
No, we're really not.


it takes more than sss to being the kind of hero that steve is digi. parker is not in the same tier

Surely we're not discussing if Parker is a better hero than Rogers?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Surely we're not discussing if Parker is a better hero than Rogers?

Digi's global mod powers are the only thing keeping him alive from the angry mob now. But even that won't last for long...

I'm not sure Peter will live through the war. as soon as he gets the SSS he's going to be sent through boot camp and training so he's not have a lot of time to invent anything major before hitting the field and without the spider-sense I'm not liking his chances of dodging bullets.

I would say pete would turn out to be more or less like batman. Just not as serious or grumpy. Since pete would not be able to rely on his spider sense as much he would be possibly more serious since he doesn't have a early detection aka spider-sense. I wouldn't be surprised if he used armor suit most of the time since it's well within his abilities to make one.

Rogers if he gained spiderman's powers instead of the sss at the time he would be amazing. Granted he would learn things as fast but he would work-out/train a crap ton like he usually does. IMO pete never really did much physical training besides practicing a tiny bit of kung fu and some danger room like workouts. Rogers imo would push his physical stats beyond what spider man can currently do.

This is the part i don't understand would they be fighting their own respective rogue gallery or would they be fighting each other's rogue gallery?

It'd have to be their normal rogue gallery, otherwise Cap would be in his 70-80's before he started fighting.

On the "who's the better hero" thing, I'm not talking wholistically. I'm talking solely about potential power as we gauge it on the forums.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Maybe not KK level, but several levels above the feats he's pulling off now.

No one's saying Pete is more skilled, certainly not me. But, like, he knows pressure points, kung fu, and has even been trained some by Cap. And has he shattered helicarriers with pressure strikes? Because that's the kind of **** KK pulls. KK is light years beyond Steve with this stuff; sorry.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Digi's global mod powers are the only thing keeping him alive from the angry mob now. But even that won't last for long...

And I'm waiting for a cogent rebuttal of how Pete's tech and inventing prowess puts him above what anyone could do with spider powers. We have people on KMC that think Cap is almost SM's physical equal. They're wrong of course, but we're not talking about orders of magnitude better with the physical stats, and Cap loses any and all tech, including webs. He'd be better in a few ways, worse in several others, and probably a push in terms of overall power.

Pete on the other hand could pimp himself out with tech to make himself more than Cap could ever be by just punching stuff.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It'd have to be their normal rogue gallery, otherwise Cap would be in his 70-80's before he started fighting.
If this is the case. I think that Rogers would do better. It would take peter too long to really fine tune his abilities and reflexes because you need a certain level of training to be able to properly use the SSS.

As seen with some couple of SSS Soldiers were taken down by SSSless Rogers one time.

Captain would be trained already and just adjust to his new limits and he would do amazing right off the bat. IMO Cap would abuse the shit out of spiderman's agility and speed and strength.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
If this is the case. I think that Rogers would do better. It would take peter too long to really fine tune his abilities and reflexes because you need a certain level of training to be able to properly use the SSS.

As seen with some couple of SSS Soldiers were taken down by SSSless Rogers one time.

Captain would be trained already and just adjust to his new limits and he would do amazing right off the bat. IMO Cap would abuse the shit out of spiderman's agility and speed and strength.


this

Originally posted by Digi
On the "who's the better hero" thing, I'm not talking wholistically. I'm talking solely about potential power as we gauge it on the forums.



No one's saying Pete is more skilled, certainly not me. But, like, he knows pressure points, kung fu, and has even been trained some by Cap. And has he shattered helicarriers with pressure strikes? Because that's the kind of **** KK pulls. KK is light years beyond Steve with this stuff; sorry.



And I'm waiting for a cogent rebuttal of how Pete's tech and inventing prowess puts him above what anyone could do with spider powers. We have people on KMC that think Cap is almost SM's physical equal. They're wrong of course, but we're not talking about orders of magnitude better with the physical stats, and Cap loses any and all tech, including webs. He'd be better in a few ways, worse in several others, and probably a push in terms of overall power.

Pete on the other hand could pimp himself out with tech to make himself more than Cap could ever be by just punching stuff.

im not seeing the angle your peddling digi. sure parker is a genius, yea he knows a little kung fu and great he has armor, but he's still a poor mans iron man...

its not just what cap can do...its who the people he could bring around him. cap could muster a team while powerless just by tenacity alone

If Peter was taken and put into caps place. Given a shield, training, the chain mail... And thrown into world war 2....

He'd likely survive the war... But he'd never inspire soldiers the way cap did

Cap however... With his limited power set has a charisma and battle sense that is not matched ANYWHERE else in marvel.

Give Steve the Spider-Man powers and he won't necessarily be able to come up with webbing or what not... But he'd likely end up in shields eyeball... And end up with the gear that gets him back on top. Who says he has to build when he inspires so much people will do anything for him...

Parker would do better.

He already is a pretty smart genius on his own. Augment it with the SSS, train him to give him a more militaristic way of thinking (whilst keeping his originality - I mean, no one is arguing Steve just colours by numbers here).

Steve, without the military, will still have heart. Would he have developed his Spider Fu? Would he have travelled the world, learning different style? Probably not. Don't forget, Steve was just a poor schmuck, and the way he gets his powers here (spiderbite) means he won't have some massive military machine paying for his education.

Parker would have whatever resources he needs. And a goal, without having to worry about Aunt May or whatever.

Does Pete start off with the SSS in WW2 era or today? Either way I see him helping improve army tech leaps and bounds. I see Parker ahead but i'm wishy washy and could go either way just because Cap .

Peter has great willpower bravery taking on someone way more powerful then himself like Firelord, Hulk, Juggernaut, and others show just how strong his will is. Steve may become a good fighter but who knows if he would have taken his fight techniques so seriously having super strength and speed. Spider-Man going through war would make his a more serious hero.

Actually the OP said that Steve could still join the Army, so he likely still ends up being a government sponsored super-soldier, his training will just be a little different.

I would think back in 41 seeing Captain America moving as fast as Spider-Man plus is Super Strength might make the military suspicious.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Parker would do better.

He already is a pretty smart genius on his own. Augment it with the SSS, train him to give him a more militaristic way of thinking (whilst keeping his originality - I mean, no one is arguing Steve just colours by numbers here).

Steve, without the military, will still have heart. Would he have developed his Spider Fu? Would he have travelled the world, learning different style? Probably not. Don't forget, Steve was just a poor schmuck, and the way he gets his powers here (spiderbite) means he won't have some massive military machine paying for his education.

Parker would have whatever resources he needs. And a goal, without having to worry about Aunt May or whatever.

unc bens death is what made parker the man he is....i dont see how giving him the sss and placing him in ww2 is going to make him a better hero he is a genius but not a creative genius...he'd be limited by the technological advancements of the time

Steve would hardly be the only super-powered person around during that time, I see no reason for him to not join the Army and end up working with the Invaders, just like he did as Captain America.

So we are comparing Parker in the 40s to Rogers in the 90s (or whenever he's set)?

In which case, won't Rogers lose all of his Nazi fighting experiences, which in turn would mean he's less effective as a soldier? I mean, don't get me wrong, the Gulf War was a fight, but nothing like WW2..

Or does Parker get frozen, and thawed out in modern day America? In which case, he's gonna have a field day with modern tech.

And I said it'd make him a better hero because it would teach him focus, and a more martial way of thinking. He'd become a more effective crime fighter, with a formalised education in tactics, strategy and fighting. Rogers was a nobody, then he got trained up, and he's now the foremost tactician in Marvel. I can't see why Parker won't become the same.

Rogers in 40s and Peter in 60s both during War time

Still Peter, then. But with a Punisher style, dirty war bent.

One thing to take into consideration, without getting his powers until he's 18, Peter would never have been in a position to let the burglar go that ends up killing Ben so he's not going to have anywhere near the same drive as he did as Spider-man.

Originally posted by Digi
In these recent arcs it was implied that he was never a big-time inventor not because he didn't haev the brain power, but because his life pulled him in too many other directions. Based on recent tech showings, what he's done with relatively little time as a "free" inventor, there's a damn good case to be made that the most powerful Peter Parker might be the one who never got spider powers in the first place, and could focus solely on science.

Of course Cap will be physically superior because of the new body. But he loses the "who does better" battle in SO many other ways. Peter would do better because, frankly, he's a better hero. Smarter, more clever and ingenious. Unless this is an "inspire-off" Cap has nothing to hang his hat on, and would quickly die in one of the hundreds of situations where Spidey's web-shooters saved his and others' lives.

Your reaching digi. Parker isnt a soldier. In a role reversal scenario Cap would benefit more imo. And who's to say he wouldnt, hed become a American symbol without the shield. Parker would be thrust into WW2 as a leader which is not his strong point...he doesn't inspire in the same way. Its not the sss that makes Steve captain America. Its Steve. Parker isn't on the level even with prep

Originally posted by Sin I AM
im not seeing the angle your peddling digi. sure parker is a genius, yea he knows a little kung fu and great he has armor, but he's still a poor mans iron man...

its not just what cap can do...its who the people he could bring around him. cap could muster a team while powerless just by tenacity alone

So, we're saying Cap could build a better team? That's kinda beyond the bounds of the OP, isn't it? You're claiming he's better because of other characters. I mean, if we allow that, sure, maybe. Otherwise, I still don't see how Parker's inventing ability doesn't put him beyond Cap in any forum-related endeavor. Webbing alone is probably 1/3 or more of Spider-Man's usefulness in many fights, and that's only the big obvious thing, not all the other stuff.

Saying he's a poor man's Iron Man means nothing. This isn't against Iron Man. This is against someone who couldn't even hope to build a suit, or do anything but punch stuff and pose dramatically. And who says Parker would lead? If he were thrust into Cap's role, he'd probably fight when needed, and reverse engineer a bunch of Hydra tech, and become an unseen, brainy scourge rather than a dramatic leader.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Your reaching digi. Parker isnt a soldier. In a role reversal scenario Cap would benefit more imo. And who's to say he wouldnt, hed become a American symbol without the shield. Parker would be thrust into WW2 as a leader which is not his strong point...he doesn't inspire in the same way. Its not the sss that makes Steve captain America. Its Steve. Parker isn't on the level even with prep

And it's not spider-powers that make Spider-Man, it's Peter Parker. His willpower showings are probably equal to Cap's, or damn close.

You're taking a leadership angle, which I can't really follow you to. We're comparing apples and oranges. I'm talking forum fight, where Parker would have a super suit, Parker Particles, webbing, and a dozen tricks up his sleeve. And Steve would be fast and punch stuff.

Originally posted by Digi
And it's not spider-powers that make Spider-Man, it's Peter Parker. His willpower showings are probably equal to Cap's, or damn close.

You're taking a leadership angle, which I can't really follow you to. We're comparing apples and oranges. I'm talking forum fight, where Parker would have a super suit, Parker Particles, webbing, and a dozen tricks up his sleeve. And Steve would be fast and punch stuff.

Even if you ignore a forum fight, and say OK, drop them both in a city, who cleans crime up faster (or takes out more Nazis, whatever), money's still on Parker.

Willpower?

Day one:

90lb weakling vs 90 lb weakling

Steve fought against even the biggest bullies of the time. Super soldier or not he was joining the army. SSS or spidey powers he's still joining the army or shield and become a lead military figure.

Peter however couldn't stand up the bullies of his time. Even his character from an early onset with regards to the death of uncle Ben was due to his mindset as a teenager. In character what kind of leadership has Parker shown through the years.

Peter with the power set of captain America would be a depowered version of who he is today. While cap increases his own abilities.

And taking away the skills of Steve while allow Peter his is a fallacy. Remember that cap only had 6 months of training prior to going into the war so it wasn't like he lost a lifetime of training. Those were his on inherent willpower and intuitive fighting abilities. Things Peter doesn't have.

Everything Digi has said is 100% correct.

Spider-man without webbing is a strong guy with spider sense. His combat speed is reduced (lack of web pulls), and his fighting is limited to the ground or climbing buildings. Steve would simply get an upgrade in physical ability but if he has to face Parker's enemies, he wouldn't have the resources to win. Parker would get a downgrade, but he'd build technology to cover the gap + have webshooters, traces, etc.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Everything Digi has said is 100% correct.

Spider-man without webbing is a strong guy with spider sense. His combat speed is reduced (lack of web pulls), and his fighting is limited to the ground or climbing buildings. Steve would simply get an upgrade in physical ability but if he has to face Parker's enemies, he wouldn't have the resources to win. Parker would get a downgrade, but he'd build technology to cover the gap + have webshooters, traces, etc.

You make it seem like Parkers rogues are beyond Steve. Id wager without the upgrade he'd still be as effective, he'd just have to adjust tactics slightly. Your talking about the best tactician in comics against an average prepper. I still haven't seen a convincing argument for Parker other than "zomg Parker particles, rhino busting suit". Scans of him reverse engineering anything? Hed be the same teenager with weaker stats thrust into the frontlines. You can't cherry pick and say "oh well he won't have to fight he'd be in the lab developing weapons". Not likely, if he's taking the role of CA then his job would be to lead the troops. Sure he'd survive maybe. But not with the same panache that Steve displayed. Plus his aversion to killing won't necessarily help him when he's pinned down by machine gun fire.

Any symbiote would work Cap over.

Yeah, they're not giving the SSS to Peter so that he can work in a lab....he's going to be on the front lines.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yeah, they're not giving the SSS to Peter so that he can work in a lab....he's going to be on the front lines. Well when they find out he's smarter than anyone they have working for them that might change.

Seriously...in his bedroom, he created his webshooters and web fluid etc. Imagine what he could do with Army resources, during a war.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Seriously...in his bedroom, he created his webshooters and web fluid etc. Imagine what he could do with Army resources, during a war.

Nothing, because he'd be to busy fighting for his life on the front lines.

The argument would also be said is lets take a look at Parker with the spider powers... Other then his web shooters what I'd he really do tech wise for the first two decades of his career?!

His recent inventions? Would he have even have survived to today without his spidey powers. It wasn't like he was making a green goblin suit to battle his enemies. When Parker needed help he always went to other minds like reed, beast, or even doc Connors.

The big question is the gear. Does Steve lose his shield? Cause if he does the. That's the biggest upset to caps power set.

When Parker went to other geniuses it was to use their equipment.

I think there is to many what ifs in this? And if there lives are changed just to many to factors IMO. But Steve can do pretty well as long as his character is still the same.

I mean Steve when the chips were down. He would use prep from others like Army weapons, Shield tech, Avengers tech, Jets, Ironman armor, Tony Starks vibranium shield, energy shield, to even SHIELD itself. Or even on the "fly" prep by picking up Thor's hammer. Through out his career he definitely would get resources and easily to boot. Even a entire intergalactic army against future Korvac because of his ability to be a leader and coordinate efforts to bring him down.

His character and leadership gives him many teammates and many....many resources or options for some of the worst case scenarios.

The old saying, " I know a guy that knows a guy."

Spiderman doesn't really have the type of resources or connections that Steve can achieve easily. So I can see him failing a lot of Steve's battles/missions if he tries to go "solo." He's more of a loner in comparison. Yes Spiderman has worked on teams, to even lead teams and has friends that can provide resources but nothing re motley the same in comparison to Steve.

Pete might gain the SSS abilities. But he can't acquire the character traits and personality that allows Steve to gain the trust, admiration and respect of many. That you either have it or you don't.

Steve was born with it.

^Who can Steve go to for help that Spiderman can't?

Anyone that really matters and Peter could just as easily, maybe even easier, get in contact with. He has close ties with F4, Avengers, and X-men.

And if you can get Wolverine to like you, you can get anyone to.

What happened when Aunt May was dying?

He pulled out his little black book. Even managed to get to Doom.

And if we REALLY want to talk about resources, he was part of the FF.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What happened when Aunt May was dying?

He pulled out his little black book. Even managed to get to Doom.

And if we REALLY want to talk about resources, he was part of the FF. And Avengers, and has worked with the X-men multiple times.

Pretty sure Loki and Doom still owe Spiderman a favor.

Peter has at least as many people he could go to as Cap does, probably more.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What happened when Aunt May was dying?

He pulled out his little black book. Even managed to get to Doom.

And if we REALLY want to talk about resources, he was part of the FF.

True. The fantastic four is practically the guy's family. That's all the resources one needs.

I'm starting to think Spiderman has the widest connection in Marvel comics, the guy knows everyone...

He's the Nightwing of Marvel.

He's the Kevin Bacon of Marvel. Everyone's connected to him by six degrees of separation or less

Peter can organize and lead a intergalactic space armada. His jokes will seal the deal that's for sure.

Who would use their powers best should be extremely obvious.

Cap is pretty much the perfect example of the hard training focused tap your full potential hero. Parker is the one with tons of potential but torn in all directions and relying on base abilities and instinct rather than skill, occational bursts of genius nonwithstanding.

Connections... We are lucky Parker was not in WWII or he would have made some deal with Mephisto to recton the war away too. Boo-hoo, my friends are getting shot I must stop this.

I'm still a little confused about the thread. Are they completely switching lives? Like since Pete is in the army fighting in ww, does cap start off losing his uncle and has to take care of his recently widowed aunt? In that case I don't see Steve leaving her for the army. Also if cap is in the 60's would he even want to? Since the majority of the country was against the war wouldn't Steve go with the American people and protest.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
You make it seem like Parkers rogues are beyond Steve.

Well, yes, several are.

Also, I purposely tried to ignore Parker Particles. Others brought them up first. We don't need his high-end tech showings to make my case - "simple" things like webbing that's stronger than steel and tracers make my case well enough - but the other stuff is certainly icing on the cake. Of course he wouldn't thrive in quite the same way as Cap in the war, but the question is who would be more effective, overall. The answer's still Pete.

I agree with what Blair said.

Originally posted by Digi
Well, yes, several are.

Also, I purposely tried to ignore Parker Particles. Others brought them up first. We don't need his high-end tech showings to make my case - "simple" things like webbing that's stronger than steel and tracers make my case well enough - but the other stuff is certainly icing on the cake. Of course he wouldn't thrive in quite the same way as Cap in the war, but the question is who would be more effective, overall. The answer's still Pete.

I agree with what Blair said. It could be argued that a few of Steve's rogues are in fact smarter or are at least better planners than Peter is.

Steve would still be the better leader and strategist. Also on several occasions throughout history where raw power has failed Steve's ability to be an ambassador as also helped gain respect from various people helping end conflict. Steve tends to be a good at uniting people.

I'm not saying people who choose Peter are wrong but I feel it is not as cut and dry as people would first assume.

Originally posted by Newjak
It could be argued that a few of Steve's rogues are in fact smarter or are at least better planners than Peter is.

Steve would still be the better leader and strategist. Also on several occasions throughout history where raw power has failed Steve's ability to be an ambassador as also helped gain respect from various people helping end conflict. Steve tends to be a good at uniting people.

I'm not saying people who choose Peter are wrong but I feel it is not as cut and dry as people would first assume.

Fair enough. Though none of those things have to do with the body switch. If you value Cap's leadership over Pete's tech, then Cap wins in any scenario here. Again, people taking that angle are having a different discussion than I am.

Personally, I don't value the leadership as much. Someone needs to be followed, and there are other role models in Marvel on any team. That isn't discounting Cap's leadership skills...it's just, when there's only a small handful of people as clever or intelligent as Pete, I value his entire "power worth" a lot more.

That, and, as stated, I think Cap in SM's body might actually be a regress from Pete's current power level, due to lack of webs and other such stuff.

Placed in the same situation, what would Rogers do here DIFFERENTLY from Pete?




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Originally posted by Digi


That, and, as stated, I think Cap in SM's body might actually be a regress from Pete's current power level, due to lack of webs and other such stuff.



What makes you think he would lack those? Just because he can't build them himself. This is where Steve shines in acquiring what he needs.


You think the SSS experiment, Cap Suit/Shield, Avengers team, Head of Shield, Secret Avengers was given to him at birth? All these he was lacking. The Scientific angle is fine and all but with Steve you have geniuses working for him.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Placed in the same situation, what would Rogers do here DIFFERENTLY from Pete?




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He'd still lose to Fisk, but he'd get in a few more lines about America and perseverance.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
What makes you think he would lack those? Just because he can't build them himself. This is where Steve shines in acquiring what he needs.


You think the SSS experiment, Cap Suit/Shield, Avengers team, Head of Shield, Secret Avengers was given to him at birth? All these he was lacking. The Scientific angle is fine and all but with Steve you have geniuses working for him.

Can we assume someone else would invent webs for him though? Seems a stretch. Also, again, aren't we beyond the OP stips if we start deciding that Cap can use what others build for him, but Parker exists in a bubble? Besides, beyond the shield, what have all those geniuses done for him in his actual history? He's less powerful than he'd be with spider powers, so presumably he could use the help more.

I actually think Peter would still have webs in Cap's body. I mean, he invented them, yeah? They'd just be called "Freedom Ropes" or something lame.

Well, He's been given things like powered armor and that energy shield.

Originally posted by Digi
Fair enough. Though none of those things have to do with the body switch. If you value Cap's leadership over Pete's tech, then Cap wins in any scenario here. Again, people taking that angle are having a different discussion than I am.

Personally, I don't value the leadership as much. Someone needs to be followed, and there are other role models in Marvel on any team. That isn't discounting Cap's leadership skills...it's just, when there's only a small handful of people as clever or intelligent as Pete, I value his entire "power worth" a lot more.

That, and, as stated, I think Cap in SM's body might actually be a regress from Pete's current power level, due to lack of webs and other such stuff. I would say it depends on the situation myself.

There's only a handful of people as tactical and as good a leader as Steve is.

Steve is also intelligent in different ways than Peter. For instance in a tactical game against Baron Zemo I would much rather have Steve leading that charge than Peter.

While Steve might not be able to swing on webs and such Steve with a Spider-sense could be dangerous. It's like a built in life line for a tactical genius.

Now I will agree that generally technology and those kinds of smarts are more useful in a broader range of areas. But there are still areas where Cap clearly superior. I would say Cap is better at managing resources and working with others to help them get things done.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well, He's been given things like powered armor and that energy shield.

And Peter has built stuff equally and more impressive for himself. My point stands, reinforced imo.

And again, people have built things that have helped Peter. At his current tech job, in the past, the iron spider costume. Are we comparing these two characters, or anyone who's ever done something for them? Seems a silly line of thought.

Originally posted by Newjak
I would say it depends on the situation myself.

There's only a handful of people as tactical and as good a leader as Steve is.

Steve is also intelligent in different ways than Peter. For instance in a tactical game against Baron Zemo I would much rather have Steve leading that charge than Peter.

While Steve might not be able to swing on webs and such Steve with a Spider-sense could be dangerous. It's like a built in life line for a tactical genius.

Now I will agree that generally technology and those kinds of smarts are more useful in a broader range of areas. But there are still areas where Cap clearly superior. I would say Cap is better at managing resources and working with others to help them get things done.

If you want some sort of concession, that each man is more useful in certain situations, you have it. No one could make the claim that Peter is always more useful. But we're talking in totality, or on average. I think Spidey is more useful on the whole right now in the Marvel universe (though both are, of course, very important). I don't think a body swap would change that.

Originally posted by Digi
Can we assume someone else would invent webs for him though? Seems a stretch. Also, again, aren't we beyond the OP stips if we start deciding that Cap can use what others build for him, but Parker exists in a bubble? Besides, beyond the shield, what have all those geniuses done for him in his actual history? He's less powerful than he'd be with spider powers, so presumably he could use the help more.

I actually think Peter would still have webs in Cap's body. I mean, he invented them, yeah? They'd just be called "Freedom Ropes" or something lame.



What makes you think it would just be webs? Other tech Digi to compensate. And to pretend that is a stretch would be a tall tale.

What have those geniuses done for him. More like what haven't they done. Tony Stark gave him his own Iron Armor suit and Vibranium shield. Heck he uses other characters powers obviously for his teams. I don't think I need to fill the gap here on the power houses that he has lead. When his SSS was degenerating he relied on Science. Resources he even used the Nova force for a good while in Secret Avengers. Lots of the equipment from Avengers and Shield.

Heck he was offered the Power Broker treatment but he turned it down. Due to Steve saying there is always going to be some one more powerful. Steve can acquire powers/tech pretty easily due to the nature of his character.

But with Steve teams/resources. He doesn't really need to be a powerhouse on his own an extra is just the icing on the cake. Now like I stated the Science angle is fine but with Steve there are some definite advantages to be seen, that's different from being a science/tech guy.

Originally posted by Digi
And Peter has built stuff equally and more impressive for himself. My point stands, reinforced imo.

The point is Steve has done great for himself with just the SSS, give him Spider-man level stats and he's going to be Cap+++++

Originally posted by Daredevil1
What makes you think it would just be webs? Other tech Digi to compensate. And to pretend that is a stretch would be a tall tale.

What have those geniuses done for him. More like what haven't they done. Tony Stark gave him his own Iron Armor suit and Vibranium shield. Heck he uses other characters powers obviously for his teams. I don't think I need to fill the gap here on the power houses that he has lead. When his SSS was degenerating he relied on Science. Resources he even used the Nova force for a good while in Secret Avengers. Lots of the equipment from Avengers and Shield.

Heck he was offered the Power Broker treatment but he turned it down. Due to Steve saying there is always going to be some one more powerful.

But with Steve teams/resources. He doesn't really need to be a powerhouse. Now does he like I stated the Science angle is fine but with Steve there are some definite advantages to be seen, that's different from being a science/tech guy.

Well, first, this:

Originally posted by Digi
And Peter has built stuff equally and more impressive for himself. My point stands, reinforced imo.

And again, people have built things that have helped Peter. At his current tech job, in the past, the iron spider costume. Are we comparing these two characters, or anyone who's ever done something for them? Seems a silly line of thought.

...and second, if you want to start saying things like "The Nova Corps fought for Steve" then if we allow such arguments, this debate gets silly. The Avengers recently fought under Pete's leadership in Ends of the Earth, where he ended up doing more to save the day than any of them, Thor included.

The Nova Corps would have fought for whoever was in charge of SHIELD. The Avengers would have followed any hero into battle in Ends of the Earth, not just Peter. You're not making a character argument in these cases, you're just piggybacking on the powers of others that aren't Steve.

"The Uni-Power once picked Peter to be its avatar. Clearly he brings more to the table as a hero." See the flaw?

Originally posted by Silent Master
The point is Steve has done great for himself with just the SSS, give him Spider-man level stats and he's going to be Cap+++++

Even without the supersoldier serum he was kicking ass on many occasions.

Does anyone remember why Spider-Man invented his webbing...

Correct me if I'm wrong but it was some sort if inspiration based upon the spider bite. Other then that he didn't really have many tech feats for years into his career...

An then the argument would be that the webbin isn't something Peter would have come into on his own if he hadnt been bitten.

Originally posted by Digi
Well, first, this:



...and second, if you want to start saying things like "The Nova Corps fought for Steve" then if we allow such arguments, this debate gets silly. The Avengers recently fought under Pete's leadership in Ends of the Earth, where he ended up doing more to save the day than any of them, Thor included.

The Nova Corps would have fought for whoever was in charge of SHIELD. The Avengers would have followed any hero into battle in Ends of the Earth, not just Peter. You're not making a character argument in these cases, you're just piggybacking on the powers of others that aren't Steve.

"The Uni-Power once picked Peter to be its avatar. Clearly he brings more to the table as a hero." See the flaw?




Yes....yes even Wolverine got chosen once for omnipotent type powers. But this is the standard for Steve.......not the ladder. This is Steve's nature of his character. It comes with who he is.

If you want to argue Parker is this as well. Fine. But I doubt that is his standard MO. Shruggs. Take away this from Steve and its pretty much like taking away Pete's science angle.

Its one of the reasons why Steve is so great.

Originally posted by Digi
And Peter has built stuff equally and more impressive for himself. My point stands, reinforced imo.

And again, people have built things that have helped Peter. At his current tech job, in the past, the iron spider costume. Are we comparing these two characters, or anyone who's ever done something for them? Seems a silly line of thought.



If you want some sort of concession, that each man is more useful in certain situations, you have it. No one could make the claim that Peter is always more useful. But we're talking in totality, or on average. I think Spidey is more useful on the whole right now in the Marvel universe (though both are, of course, very important). I don't think a body swap would change that. I don't want a concession I want your tears

For me it depends on different scenarios.

If we are talking in a vacuum with no outside assistance Peter will be more likely to be the most useful in most areas with Steve dominating small pockets.

If we are talking about in the Marvel U while interacting with other people Steve's skills might be more useful than Peter's. Mostly due to the fact there are people smarter than or as smart as Peter in the MU and it's not like the list is count them on one hand long.

I think steve will always be more useful in a large team oriented Scenario than Peter.

My reasons being Steve is a great manager of teams/people/resources and gets the absolute best out of them. That's a very useful skill in a place where you are dealing with lots of individuals of varying skills and strengths.

Peter might do more than Steve as an individual will but you put Steve in charge of any operation and he's going to make whatever they do better and make them produce consistently at their highest levels and beyond.

Originally posted by rotiart
Does anyone remember why Spider-Man invented his webbing...

Correct me if I'm wrong but it was some sort if inspiration based upon the spider bite. Other then that he didn't really have many tech feats for years into his career...

An then the argument would be that the webbin isn't something Peter would have come into on his own if he hadnt been bitten.

iirc it was an old science project he had from highschool...

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes....yes even Wolverine got chosen once for omnipotent type powers. But this is the standard for Steve.......not the ladder. This is Steve's nature of his character. It comes with who he is.

If you want to argue Parker is this as well. Fine. But I doubt that is his standard MO. Shruggs. Take away this from Steve and its pretty much like taking away Pete's science angle.

Its one of the reasons why Steve is so great.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't want a concession I want your tears

For me it depends on different scenarios.

If we are talking in a vacuum with no outside assistance Peter will be more likely to be the most useful in most areas with Steve dominating small pockets.

If we are talking about in the Marvel U while interacting with other people Steve's skills might be more useful than Peter's. Mostly due to the fact there are people smarter than or as smart as Peter in the MU and it's not like the list is count them on one hand long.

I think steve will always be more useful in a large team oriented Scenario than Peter.

My reasons being Steve is a great manager of teams/people/resources and gets the absolute best out of them. That's a very useful skill in a place where you are dealing with lots of individuals of varying skills and strengths.

Peter might do more than Steve as an individual will but you put Steve in charge of any operation and he's going to make whatever they do better and make them produce consistently at their highest levels and beyond.

ALL of this is still a different debate than I'm having.

The OP question is about the body swap. Before I got dragged into the esoteric qualities of Cap's ability to induce patriot boners, that's literally all I was talking about. Both dudes, opposite bodies, their own intelligence, skill, and resources. Who comes out better in a fight. That battle goes to Pete, and quite clearly imo.

Because if you think Steve's leadership skills make him a better, more important hero, then there you go. The debate is settled, regardless of body or innate powers, and the OP's scenario is meaningless to the outcome. But in doing so, you've successfully ignored the OP stips, or at least made them superfluous, in order to frame the argument in Cap's favor. I'm not even sure that wins the fight for Cap, because for all of his great leadership, other leaders would be found. It's not like a world chock full of unimaginably noble heroes is lacking those who could fill in admirably. But that's beside the point. I'm done arguing about the quantity of subjective traits as they play out over decades of comic stories.

To each his own then. If Steve isn't allowed to use his character traits of what he does best through his ability regardless of his new power. Then yes I agree Parker wins this scenario. If Steve is completely on his "own" then yes Spiderman wins.

But outside from this it should be no secret that Steve's advantages dominate Pete's from the circumstances that I'm speaking about. Fair enough then.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Your reaching digi. Parker isnt a soldier. In a role reversal scenario Cap would benefit more imo. And who's to say he wouldnt, hed become a American symbol without the shield. Parker would be thrust into WW2 as a leader which is not his strong point...he doesn't inspire in the same way. Its not the sss that makes Steve captain America. Its Steve. Parker isn't on the level even with prep works both ways. Its not spider powers that make Spider-man a hero. That much has been established. As for inspiring people.. took Pete a 20 second long speech to unite most of New Yorkers and have them follow him into a battle against an army of supervillains. And it was Peter Parker who gave the speech, not Spider-man. Most superheroes are soldiers and Pete is not an exception. How many wars there's been in Marvel U since the WW2? Like 8.

Digi is making a good point. Ofcourse Steve would be more effective if we're talking physical abilities.. but SM is one og the smartest people in the world. Relying on his intellect he could save more people than Cap relying on hos newly found powers.

I have no problem with Peter inventing things because he's been doing that for years, you know what Steve has been doing for years....leading and training teams...why is Peter the only one that gets to keep doing something he's done for years?

Digi and Sam are correct. The rest of you can go pound salt!

Originally posted by Silent Master
I have no problem with Peter inventing things because he's been doing that for years, you know what Steve has been doing for years....leading and training teams...why is Peter the only one that gets to keep doing something he's done for years?

Who said he can't? Like Sam said, it works both ways. Pete has a lot beyond just his powers, and also beyond his tech.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't want a concession I want your tears

I don't have tear glands, just a second "awesome gland" where it used to be. True story.

Pound some salt...I guess.

Just the general tone of some of the posts, they seem to imply that Steve is going to be hopelessly outgunned and have zero access to any training, tech or allies to help him out, whereas Peter will somehow retain all of his and will be inventing things like powered armor from day one.

Originally posted by golem370
Alright in this thread Peter and Steve take different paths instead of Peter getting the powers of the Spider Steve does, and instead of Steve getting the Super Solider Serum Peter gets it. Who would have used the different powers the best?

The OP is talking about using their powers and skills best. The reason that Peter is able to create technology and that Digi is talking about that fact is because Peter is relying on himself. He can actually do these things without anyone else's help. And the OP is talking about them as individuals - actively using their skills/powers in battle. So, looking through the lens of them as individuals, Parker is the more effective hero.

Captain America is a great leader. Because of this, Steve is great in team based scenarios, but that means he has to rely more on others to follow his orders - which again, is not the point of this thread. You want to make a thread about who's better when thrown in a team setting, that is another topic all together. The OP is not asking what he can do to inspire other additional members to fight under him. It is asking what he can do or would do with the Spider-man powers given to him. CA would get an upgrade and would do better utilizing the new powers - but he would be less than current Spider-man because he'd be lacking webs and the rest of his tech. Which is a huge part of Spider-man's combat effectiveness. Assuming that they completely change lives, Steve would have to cobble things from scratch to make anything - which is what Peter has been so great at doing and Steve has never shown an aptitude for.

Parker, on his part, would compensate with technology and if he had the army's resources to play around with would have high-end tech at his disposal instead of his usual scrapped together equipment.

Actually, the point of the thread is who uses their powers the best...that means looking at only what they can do with their powers.

Originally posted by golem370
Alright in this thread Peter and Steve take different paths instead of Peter getting the powers of the Spider Steve does, and instead of Steve getting the Super Solider Serum Peter gets it. Who would have used the different powers the best?

Peter's ability to invent isn't power-related, so if that counts then Steve's ability to lead counts.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just the general tone of some of the posts, they seem to imply that Steve is going to be hopelessly outgunned and have zero access to any training, tech or allies to help him out, whereas Peter will somehow retain all of his and will be inventing things like powered armor from day one.

Well, since I'm about 50% of the Spidey backing here....no. He'll have basic stuff early on like webbing, which alone is enough to give him a big edge. A lot of the other stuff will come later, of course, but as I mentioned, he's been solving tech problems to help himself since high school. His recent tech feats are more condensed than in the past, but not out of character. And anyway, Peter's intelligence is innate. Cap's training is not. That's the difference. I was originally giving cap his training though, but OP said otherwise.

Just admit Peter's a better hero, and we can all go home. I even promise I'll share my Juicy Juice with you on the bus ride home.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Actually, the point of the thread is who uses their powers the best...that means looking at only what they can do with their powers.

Peter's ability to invent isn't power-related, so if that counts then Steve's ability to lead counts.

But the problem is that we are looking at them as individuals. I don't understand how that concept is not sinking in - Peter invents stuff to augment his powers as an individual. Steve's ability to inspire is externalizing the argument to bring in other people who are not Peter or Steve.

You can utilize the fact that Steve is tactical, that he is a better strategist, that he would discipline his powers faster than Peter would. You can't utilize other beings in an argument that only centers around the two of them.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
But the problem is that we are looking at them as individuals. I don't understand how that concept is not sinking in - Peter invents stuff to augment his powers as an individual. Steve's ability to inspire is externalizing the argument to bring in other people who are not Peter or Steve.

You can utilize the fact that Steve is tactical, that he is a better strategist, that he would discipline his powers faster than Peter would. You can't utilize other beings in an argument that only centers around the two of them.

I agree that Peter uses inventions better, but this is about how they use their powers.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I agree that Peter uses inventions better, but this is about how they use their powers.

Would Iron Man's suit be a power? Or, more to the point, would Spider-Man's webbing? Both come from the "power" to invent.

Having less power and more resources available to him - assuming he goes into the Army and gets the SSS that way - Peter's intellect (which can be considered a power, it certainly is for Tony or Reed) would shine through which allows him to be the more effective hero.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Would Iron Man's suit be a power? Or, more to the point, would Spider-Man's webbing? Both come from the "power" to invent.

Having less power and more resources available to him - assuming he goes into the Army and gets the SSS that way - Peter's intellect (which can be considered a power, it certainly is for Tony or Reed) would shine through which allows him to be the more effective hero.

The powers in question are SSS vs Spider powers.

Anyone else think the scenario is more like if pete wasent bitten by a spider but instead injected with the SSS and Instead of them injectiong the SSS into rogers he just got a bite or shot that made him have spider man powers.

So basically same life just powers were switched.

I feel like most people are arguing if they changed lives and history. <-- is that what OP wants?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just the general tone of some of the posts, they seem to imply that Steve is going to be hopelessly outgunned and have zero access to any training, tech or allies to help him out, whereas Peter will somehow retain all of his and will be inventing things like powered armor from day one.

Agreed.
Seems like they are trying to put Steve in a bubble and with his new powers and his ability to punch faster and kick harder is all he can do. Leadership........gone...........strategies/tactics.........never heard of........inspirational...........doesn't work..............teams..........soldiers........nope they don't get to work with him. He is on his own. Shield organization........Avengers......Nope on his own. Tech support.......never heard of. A man who commands the Gods......Who? You mean Bucky.....LOL

They might as well have said that there giving Steve the brain of a trained chimp that can punch and run fast......

God forbid he has to have a web shooter despite all the above. The problem is with Steves own intellect he has shown that he can acquire resources by means of his "own" ability and command teams at a whim. Yet Steves intellect in doing this doesn't count.

And yet Spiderman because his intellect is in science he is allowed to make his tech and some are even proposing using the funds from the military to make his tech. So Spiderman is allowed outside sources and Steve isn't by his own intellect seems like a major double standard.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Anyone else think the scenario is more like if pete wasent bitten by a spider but instead injected with the SSS and Instead of them injectiong the SSS into rogers he just got a bite or shot that made him have spider man powers.

So basically same life just powers were switched.

I feel like most people are arguing if they changed lives and history. <-- is that what OP wants?

Not a clue at this point, people seem to be arguing several different scenarios at this point.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Would Iron Man's suit be a power? Or, more to the point, would Spider-Man's webbing? Both come from the "power" to invent.



Iron Man suit not really a true power by most definitions but advanced tech or weapon.

Depends I guess semantics can play a factor without a real concrete definition. As even Steve once called himself," I am military technology but that's not all I am." The spider bite gave Peter his Spider powers. The SSS gave Steve his abilities.

Like the Science behind the Power Broker treatment that actually gives you the superhuman strength like 10 ton strength. Or the SSS amplified 1000 times that gave Sentry his powers are more consistent with science giving you powers.

Wasn't it 100,000 times?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Leadership......

Only useful if he has people to lead.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
strategies/tactics

He has them and is better than Peter at utilizing them.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
inspirational, teams, soldiers, Shield organization, Avengers.

Externalizing the argument to include people that are not Peter and Steve.

Even if Peter doesn't get army resources (assumption made that they switched lives) we already know that Peter can create high-end technology from scraps. He'd still get webbing (or, as Digi puts them, Freedom Ropes) and tracers.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
The problem is with Steves own intellect he has shown that he can acquire resources by means of his "own" ability

Acquire? Having other people who are smarter than him give him the tools to actually be effective?

This seals the deal for me - Steve is the suckiest hero of all time since he can't get anything done for himself. He has to rely on other people to be effective at anything. (mostly sarcastic).

You guys could focus on that fact that he's tactically smarter, would utilize more effective strategies to fight opponents, that his discipline would allow him to utilize the Spider-Man powerset in a different way - but all you seem to be able to focus on is that Steve can't do anything by himself. At all.

Spiderman wins.

Get over it, nerds.

I thought this was about who uses their powers best, not who is the better inventor.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Only useful if he has people to lead.



He has them and is better than Peter at utilizing them.



Externalizing the argument to include people that are not Peter and Steve.

Even if Peter doesn't get army resources (assumption made that they switched lives) we already know that Peter can create high-end technology from scraps. He'd still get webbing (or, as Digi puts them, Freedom Ropes) and tracers.




Acquire? Having other people who are smarter than him give him the tools to actually be effective?

This seals the deal for me - Steve is the suckiest hero of all time since he can't get anything done for himself. He has to rely on other people to be effective at anything. (mostly sarcastic).

You guys could focus on that fact that he's tactically smarter, would utilize more effective strategies to fight opponents, that his discipline would allow him to utilize the Spider-Man powerset in a different way - but all you seem to be able to focus on is that Steve can't do anything by himself. At all.



But that's were your wrong. You think Steve was born with the SSS? That it just bit him? He had to go "out" and make it happen. Just like everything else he's done. All that he gained or achieved is because he's done it on his "own."

No one is just going to give you all that power/resources to have unless there insane. That's why you have to have Steve mind set and character traits........unless you want to make a different Steve.

Does Steve has Longshot luck or a mutant power that makes everyone zombies to gain what he has gained? The guy does it on his own.

Only difference at times is Steve makes it look easy. You mention why don't we make a case for his discipline and skill to use his powers in a more effective way to fight in hand to hand combat. eh, I think that part just goes "without" saying.

As Peter during Civil War once stated he could learn about combat for 1000 years and he would never be as good as Steve.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I thought this was about who uses their powers best, not who is the better inventor.



hahahaha this isn't a science competition. Nice one SM. That would be way to easy for Steve then under that scenario.

Peter is a Cap fanboy, let's get real.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
hahahaha this isn't a science competition. Nice one SM. That would be way to easy for Steve then under that scenario.

The first post even says "Who would have used the different powers the best?"

So far I haven't heard anyone talk about how Peter would use the SSS.

Originally posted by Mindset
Peter is a Cap fanboy, let's get real.

Like during civil war when Steve faced off against Peter?....

Steve

Originally posted by Silent Master
The first post even says "Who would have used the different powers the best?"

So far I haven't heard anyone talk about how Peter would use the SSS.

Compared to his feats as Spider-Man?
Take every thing hes ever done as spiderman. then He gets slower, weaker, less durable, loses his ability to climb/cling to walls.......

Originally posted by rotiart
Compared to his feats as Spider-Man?
Take every thing hes ever done as spiderman. then He gets slower, weaker, less durable, loses his ability to climb/cling to walls.......

Didn't the SSS augment Steve's mind?

Won't it augment Parker's?

Originally posted by rotiart
Compared to his feats as Spider-Man?
Take every thing hes ever done as spiderman. then He gets slower, weaker, less durable, loses his ability to climb/cling to walls.......

Exactly, all this talk about Peter inventing things to help him be a hero pretty much proves that he's not going to use the SSS very well.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly, all this talk about Peter inventing things to help him be a hero pretty much proves that he's not going to use the SSS very well. That doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by rotiart
Like during civil war when Steve faced off against Peter?.... Yes.

How is him fighting Cap changing anything I said?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly, all this talk about Peter inventing things to help him be a hero pretty much proves that he's not going to use the SSS very well.

But the argument ill make on behalf of Spider-Man winning is this...

Cap even with his spider powers... But without the shield...
Is not as awesome as cap with SSS and shield...

Originally posted by Mindset
That doesn't even make sense.

This thread is about how well they'd use their powers, so far all people are doing is saying that Peter's inventions will make up for the fact that he'd be worthless with just the SSS.

Steve on the other hand become a legend with just SSS level stats, give him cl 10-15 stats and his feats would go through the roof.

That's not even the argument that has been made...

Considering that this thread is about who uses their new powers better, the fact that nobody has even tried to argue that Peter would make good use of the SSS, tells me that they know he wouldn't be able to use them well.

Steve on the other hand made great use of the increased stats the SSS granted him, so giving him ever greater stats should see a corresponding increase in feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Didn't the SSS augment Steve's mind?

Won't it augment Parker's?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Considering that this thread is about who uses their new powers better, the fact that nobody has even tried to argue that Peter would make good use of the SSS, tells me that they know he wouldn't be able to use them well.

Steve on the other hand made great use of the increased stats the SSS granted him, so giving him ever greater stats should see a corresponding increase in feats. Peter making use of tech is a part of his character.

If we aren't using character traits then there is no point in picking particular characters.

Originally posted by Mindset
Peter making use of tech is a part of his character.

If we aren't using character traits then there is no point in picking particular characters.

I know it's part of his character, but it has zero bearing on the question being asked and that was who uses their new power better.

This thread is about comparing how Peter uses the SSS to how Steve uses spider-powers.

He would still be using tech, that's what you seem to be overlooking.

Originally posted by Mindset
He would still be using tech, that's what you seem to be overlooking.

The thread is about who would use their new power better, not who can make the best tech.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The thread is about who would use their new power better, not who can make the best tech. facepalm

How are you failing to understand such a simple idea?

No one is making this a tech contest, but the fact of the matter is Peter could compensate the lowering in his physical stats with tech.

Originally posted by Mindset
facepalm

How are you failing to understand such a simple idea?

No one is making this a tech contest, but the fact of the matter is Peter could compensate the lowering in his physical stats with tech.

This thread isn't about who would be a more effective or successful hero, it's about who will use their new powers better. the powers in question being the SSS and the Spider powers.

IOW, it's about how well Peter uses the SSS vs how well Steve uses the spider-powers.

Reread Golem's posts.

Originally posted by golem370
Who would have used the different powers the best?

LOL @ Mindset

Originally posted by Mindset
Reread Golem's posts.

Originally posted by golem370
Who would have used the different powers the best?

So I'll take your inability to read his other posts as a concession.

The opening post asks who would use their new powers the best.

Originally posted by golem370
Who would have used the different powers the best?

Parker would get killed by Vulture or Stilt-Man.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The opening post asks who would use their new powers the best. And then he elaborates on the scenario with subsequent posts.

Concession accepted.