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Sidious's Galactic Empire prior to the Battle of Endor invades The Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40K at the beginning of M41.

Who wins?

No external threats such as Xenos will be involved.

Fairly certain the IoM has the edge in sheer firepower.

They do. Someone will point out that the Empire has superior FTL, and then someone else will point out they still can't win battles, and then someone else will point out that the EU for Star Wars makes Sidious himself retarded powerful, and all of the characters that would beat him in single combat from the IoM are currently having a sit out.

It will go on like this for a while.

The IoM does have the slight edge in firepower, but with the superior FTL of the GE there's actually no need for any naval engagements. They can simply fly circles around the Imperial Fleet.

Imagine the following scenario: The GE attacks a planet of the Imperium. The IoM needs days, weeks if not months to reach them, depending on circumstances. By the time they arrive, the GE could just leave and go find another undefended planet to harrass. The GE would simply bleed the IoM to death by taking out Forge Worlds, Agri-worlds, or other planets of relative importance, robbing IoM of food and munitons, without ever having to engage in any true battle.

I know this is a rather short and simplistic version on how a war between the two might go, but as I see it, this is what it will ultimately boil down to. The IoM won't exactly go down without a fight, but when your forces need weeks to travel to a battlefield which the enemy can reach within hours or days, then you're simply not able to fight on the same terms. I say that the Galactic Empire takes this one in the end.

Also Scream, that site I linked you earlier? They have discussed this scenario many times in the past. Take a look there if you want to see more detailed explanations as to why the GE wins over the IoM.

No important world is ever undefended. Particularly not forge worlds. =P The Warp is less reliable, but 'months' while possible, is not the standard.

The problem is the reverse of what you posted, imho.

While the GE can skim around and avoid a naval confrontation, they cannot defend their worlds. They can harrass Imperial worlds, but those worlds will not be undefended, real progress will be much more costly for them. The Imperium won't have that problem, if the GE does not defend itself in force its' own worlds will fall by the dozen. The Imperium, due to being much larger in terms of military, also has the ability to fight the war on many more fronts than the GE can.

GE being more manueverable doesn't allow it a great advantage over an opponent who is in more places than the GE can be simultaneously, or afford to split their forces in ways the GE cannot.

The only *big* problem for the Imperium I've ever been convinced of is Sidious himself.

In short; If they choose not to fight, they can't defend themselves. If they choose to fight, they'll more than likely lose, and while they're outgunned it's worth mentioning they're outnumbered as well.

Source for the Empire being outnumbered?

They probably are.

By.... quite alot. :I

How many planets does the Empire have?

The Imperium has around a million or so worlds, with a population estimated to be in the quadrillions.

The Imperial Guard itself has billions of regiments.

The Empire consists of 1.69 million planets with full representation/membership in the Senate (per the Essential Atlas). It also mentions other protectorates and whatnot, but I can't remember the figure.

Edit: Wookieepedia, which is not an official canon source, says the number of those protectorates and colonies is approximately 69 million and cites the Atlas.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They probably are.

By.... quite alot. :I

Convincing source, bro.

Do not fail me again.

With respect to military numbers, I recall the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide saying the Imperial Army numbers in the tens of trillions, with trillions of fleet personnel, and "a sizeable force of stormtroopers."

But I don't have a copy to give the exact quote.

Originally posted by Keyter Derton
The IoM does have the slight edge in firepower, but with the superior FTL of the GE there's actually no need for any naval engagements. They can simply fly circles around the Imperial Fleet.

Imagine the following scenario: The GE attacks a planet of the Imperium. The IoM needs days, weeks if not months to reach them, depending on circumstances. By the time they arrive, the GE could just leave and go find another undefended planet to harrass. The GE would simply bleed the IoM to death by taking out Forge Worlds, Agri-worlds, or other planets of relative importance, robbing IoM of food and munitons, without ever having to engage in any true battle.

I know this is a rather short and simplistic version on how a war between the two might go, but as I see it, this is what it will ultimately boil down to. The IoM won't exactly go down without a fight, but when your forces need weeks to travel to a battlefield which the enemy can reach within hours or days, then you're simply not able to fight on the same terms. I say that the Galactic Empire takes this one in the end.

Also Scream, that site I linked you earlier? They have discussed this scenario many times in the past. Take a look there if you want to see more detailed explanations as to why the GE wins over the IoM.

The Imperium's planetary defense grids are defense enough.

Good luck destroying or taking over a planet that has enough firepower to obliterate a moon in a single firing, or cause the local star to go nova with a full bombardment.

As seen in Know No Fear.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No important world is ever undefended. Particularly not forge worlds. =P

My mistake, I certainly didn't seek to imply that Imperial worlds are all left defenseless. Still, the standard stationary defences are mostly composed of PDF on the ground, a token naval presence, and lance batteries on the surface. The defences are there to keep an invader at bay long enough for reinforcements to arrive and clear them out. This won't do much good against an invader who will simply blast away at the planet from orbit. Forge worlds are a different matter of course, since they are own and controlled by the Mechanicus and not the Imperium, but remember that Graia, a Forge World dedicated to creating Titans, was still successfully invaded by orkz. This wouldn't seem to imply that they own and control defences of any higher caliber than other worlds.

And yes, I know that the orkz had little reason to dally around in orbit and would be more interested in reaching the surface and all da' gud' foightin', and that the GE would leave themselves open for any potential defences if they were to initiate any orbital bombardment, but see, there's the thing. Planetary shielding is nearly nonexistant in the Imperium from what I've gathered, which means that any sort of defences on the ground would be some of the first things to be taken out. I recall Terra had some shielding during the Heresy, but that was Holy Terra as well as ten thousand years go. I doubt Forge World #34b27Alpha would have them.



As per the OP, it is the GE that invades the Imperium, thus it seems to me that they are the ones who will carry the initiative in the early stages of the campaign. Once the Imperium realizes that they're being invaded (which can take some time, considering that their FTL communication can be as unpredictable as their FTL drive, not to mention the slow gears of the Administratum), their first thought won't be "Hey, we're being invaded. We better invade those bastards in return!" Their first response will be to find out *who* it is that attacks them, and then try to fight back on their homeground. I am not saying that the Imperium won't try to invade as well at some point. I am simply saying that it won't be their first response.

And yes, the Imperium is far more militarized than the GE. But their military is limited by their means of transport, which is sadly lacking in comparison to the GE.



The Imperium doesn't have the resources to defend every single world within its borders. They can't be at every single planet at the same time. "He who defends everything defends nothing." The same applies to the GE of course but unlike the Imperium, the GE have the FTL drive to travel more or less wherever they want. The GE can actually split their forces, and then rejoin them when needed, since they move around so damn easily. I would actually say that it's the Imperium who is in danger of splitting up their forces, since the slow FTL of theirs means they can be trapped in transit while the GE can simply move around as they wish. By the time they react to an attack from the GE and respond, the GE can already be at a completely different planet. Again, the slow (compared to GE at least) FTL communication and the slow, grinding gears of their bureaucracy will put a severe dampener at the Imperiums abilities to respond to a swift invader like the GE.

Now, with all this said, I am bowing out of the thread. While I consider myself knowledgeable of WH40k and familiar with SW, I am not particularly used to debates and I'd rather not get bogged down in something I'm not good at. I posted because I do find the topic interesting, and because the thread hadn't picked up speed yet, but I didn't plan to linger. I have a forum title to live up to after all ;P You guys play nicely now!

And for the record, the Imperium will wreck the GE once the ground battles become an actual issue in this war. It's just a matter of reaching that point.

And because people post things while I write my post...



This was during the Great Crusade, so I'm not entirely certain how relevant those numbers are in the present Imperium. Some of those fleet fell to Chaos, some were destroyed, some were lost, etc etc... Much can happen in 10.000 years.

And now, back to lurking!

The controversial 3 million figure refers to the Grand Army of the Republic, not the Galactic Empire. {By the way, it has been retconned as being merely the number of the initial order placed by Sifo-Dyas; more recent source material such as the Clone Wars Campaign Guide adopted a much more liberal, appropriate views of their numbers.}



I preface this with the open admission that I am, by no means, a Warhammer expert (the premise bores me, to say nothing of the books). That said, based on estimations provided here for the Imperium's astrography vis a vis the quotes for the Empire indicates that the latter enjoys a significant advantage in terms of territory and probable industrial capability (which I realize can be strategically detrimental in that they have to hold that territory).

With respect to numbers, you must also understand that per the official site and The Ultimate Visual Guide, the Empire was an "unprecedented military buildup", indicating that the strength and size of its armed forces outclasses even those of the Separatist Alliance/Confederacy of Independent System, which fielded quadrillions of battle droids according to numerous sources.

I'm not seeing anything that suggests superior size for the Imperium, let alone to a titanic degree.

Why does the premise bore you?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why does the premise bore you?

Just a matter of personal preference. I've never been one who subscribes to the idea that darker is cooler.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Just a matter of personal preference. I've never been one who subscribes to the idea that darker is cooler. Not something I believe either NemeBro or I subscribe to, either. I think the setting does well with it though.

I like a blend of bright and cheery fictions as well as few grimdark ones. 40k just falls on the crapsack end of it. mmm

Very well. If you're stepping out, I won't reply to your post in detail.

I think you make good points, but disagree with your conclusions on some of them. For example Orks invading Graia. The Orks are incredibly effective invaders. They come in great numbers, hit lightning fast and their lack of self preservation instinct makes predicting them difficult, and stopping them moreso.

It should also be noted Graia's titans went unlooted, and it's implied production was not totally halted, either.

That's just the one point though, anyway, see you in other threads. Probably. Lurker. uhuh

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not something I believe either NemeBro or I subscribe to, either. I think the setting does well with it though.

I like a blend of bright and cheery fictions as well as few grimdark ones. 40k just falls on the crapsack end of it. mmm

Two of my three roommates love it, with one liking Wars as much as 40k. The other and I represent opposite ends of the spectrum, I suppose.

It's just never done anything for me. Grimdark is used as a pejorative and an endless sea of angst and violence does not endear itself to me (though the same applies for stories without emotional gravitas). And from what else I've seen, 40k is one of the few franchises were constant oneupsmanship is codified rather than controversial.

I tried to read one of the Ciaphus Cain books on the understanding that he is one of the more interesting characters in the 40k-verse and I found it lacking.

But like I said, it's just personal preference.

SW ships can't fight while in hyperspace, right?

Not to my knowledge.

Ares, be a peach and clarify the matter of Force adepts and 40k gamechangers. The Book of Sith indicates Sidious was mastering Force Storms shortly after his ascent. I think he should be barred from using them here.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Imperium's planetary defense grids are defense enough.

Good luck destroying or taking over a planet that has enough firepower to obliterate a moon in a single firing, or cause the local star to go nova with a full bombardment.

As seen in Know No Fear. They did that with chaos magic helping out, clown.

Anyway.

The Sun-Crusher blows up Terra and Mars in one swoop by making the sun explode.

With Terra and Mars gone the rest of the Imperium literally descends into chaos and anarchy. They've also lost FTL capabilities by losing the Emperor. Daemons infest the Galaxy; the Galactic Empire leaves the Galaxy and goes back to their own.

qed

Now wait just a cotton picking minute!

No way is the Sun Crusher just going to waltz into what is presumably the most fortified location in the galaxy and blow up the fvcking sun.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not to my knowledge.

Ares, be a peach and clarify the matter of Force adepts and 40k gamechangers. The Book of Sith indicates Sidious was mastering Force Storms shortly after his ascent. I think he should be barred from using them here.

If there is sufficient evidence that he can use them as of Episode 6, I'd say let him use them.

Also all of the GE's force users and IoM's psykers are involved.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Now wait just a cotton picking minute!

No way is the Sun Crusher just going to waltz into what is presumably the most fortified location in the galaxy and blow up the fvcking sun. The planets are fortified. The Sun-Crusher, even for all its durability, would probably get destroyed pretty quickly hovering around those planets.

The planets in the solar system are all really far away from the sun though, and it takes the Sun-Crusher, what, 5 minutes to fire one of its torpedos after it leaves hyperspace?

Imperium won't even know it's there before it's too late, tbh.

edit- Also, I challenge the notion a 40K's planetary defenses could fend off an Imperial attack. Sources, please.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
The planets are fortified. The Sun-Crusher, even for all its durability, would probably get destroyed pretty quickly hovering around those planets.

The planets in the solar system are all really far away from the sun though, and it takes the Sun-Crusher, what, 5 minutes to fire one of its torpedos after it leaves hyperspace?

Imperium won't even know it's there before it's too late, tbh.

edit- Also, I challenge the notion a 40K's planetary defenses could fend off an Imperial attack. Sources, please.


"Unchecked the death cultists gained access to part of the defence missile silo network, and in a suicidal rage unleashed a rain of atomic and plasma warheads which shattered its hive cities and succeeded in disrupting the planet's orbit for several years. The reuslting permanent winter, radioactive fallout and tectonic upheavals annihilated all life on Cygnax."

To be able to noticeably disrupt a planet's orbit would require firepower going into the exatons. This would be more then enough to blow apart any attacking Imperial fleet.

Sun-Crusher is a game breaker though, yeah. The only way the Imperium could feasibly counter it is if The Emperor or some other high-class psyker can know what would happen before it does.

So you're proposing a hit and run, of sorts? I approve.

Problem: They're not going to know that Holy Terra is the seat of the Emperor and that they should blow it up anymore than the IoM is going to know where Sidious is and that they should lance him.

Even if a probe passes Terra without exploding, it's not going to pick up any information of the sort.

Also, IIRC the Suncrusher doesn't exist during the period from which the GE is attacking.

According to Wookieepedia (and I hate that phrase, I do not consider Wookieepedia to be a valid canonical source so understand that I do not believe this is necessarily the case), the Sun Crusher was built in conjunction with the first Death Star thanks to diverted funds from that project courtesy of Tarkin.

Of course why it was never applied against the Rebellion is a mystery.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
According to Wookieepedia (and I hate that phrase, I do not consider Wookieepedia to be a valid canonical source so understand that I do not believe this is necessarily the case), the Sun Crusher was built in conjunction with the first Death Star thanks to diverted funds from that project courtesy of Tarkin.

Of course why it was never applied against the Rebellion is a mystery. So, it exists in simultaniety with the death star, while making it obsolete, and the movies never once mention it?

This kind of thing is why I hate the EU.

I believe their explanation for it is something along the lines of: "the Death Star was completed first, Tarkin died before he could make use of it himself, and Palpatine didn't know."

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
They did that with chaos magic helping out, clown. No they didn't. That is a lie.

The Chaos Magic was used to weaken the veil, allowing high level Daemons to be spawned more easily, and to create Warp Storms which would sever contact between Imperial forces.

Having checked the dates, prior to the battle of Endor the sun crusher was an unknown.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No they didn't. That is a lie.

The Chaos Magic was used to weaken the veil, allowing high level Daemons to be spawned more easily, and to create Warp Storms which would sever contact between Imperial forces. Nah, Chaos did it.

Is the Warp itself (even without chaos monstrosities) considered an external threat or not in this scenario?

I'm considering making a Homestuck Kids vs the Imperium of Man thread. Just for the delicious Nemebro tears when his dudes get punked by 4 13 year olds.

WH probably wins here though.

TBH, I'm not sure if the Empire has the Sun Crusher as of Endor. It may still be in development.

Originally posted by AmbientFire
Is the Warp itself (even without chaos monstrosities) considered an external threat or not in this scenario?

Nah, I wouldn't consider it an external threat in this scenario. However, while Daemons are fine no Chaos Space Marines.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, I'm not sure if the Empire has the Sun Crusher as of Endor. It may still be in development.



Nah, I wouldn't consider it an external threat in this scenario. However, while Daemons are fine no Chaos Space Marines. The Sun Crusher was found an ABY 11, Endor was before then.

It was found, sure, but it could have been created well before then. Even prior to Endor.

Anyway, from what I know there is not enough info to say either way.

It was created before then, but it was lost when the only person who knew about it died. It's not available until it's discovered in ABY 11, lol. Endor was ABY 4, IIRC.

Nah, it was in the Maw Instillation which was under Admiral Daala's command. It was still part of the Empire even if the majority of them were unaware of them.

Also it appears Palpatine was aware of the Maw Installation.

"Due to the secret nature of the experiments being done at the Maw, outside communications were, for the most part, forbidden. With the exception of this circuit, Daala and her crew were cut off from the rest of the galaxy save for the Emperor himself, and perhaps Darth Vader."

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, it was in the Maw Instillation which was under Admiral Daala's command. It was still part of the Empire even if the majority of them were unaware of them.

Also it appears Palpatine was aware of the Maw Installation.

"Due to the secret nature of the experiments being done at the Maw, outside communications were, for the most part, forbidden. With the exception of this circuit, Daala and her crew were cut off from the rest of the galaxy save for the Emperor himself, and perhaps Darth Vader."

Everything I've read on the subject points out that the Emperor did /not/ know about the sun crusher. Just being a GE installation doesn't mean anything if the GE doesn't know it's there to make use of it.

Otherwise the Imperium suddenly gains use of all the schematics they've lost, and possibly even Blackstone Fortresses.

Hardly. Even if the Emperor does not know about the Sun Crusher, other Imperials such as Daala and the scientist that worked on it do.

This isn't some lost piece of technology like the Katana fleet, the Sun Crusher is directly under Imperial control. In this case, Daala's.

And they continue to sit in Maw installation undisturbed until ABY 11. It is not under imperial control because Daala isn't the Emperor, not does Daala have contact with said Emperor.

Here's a thought, how about the surviving loyalist Primarchs return? That would be great, wouldn't it? I mean, they're part of the Imperium, are they not? (Protip: Not at the time this war occurs, and neither is the sun crusher present before Endor)

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And they continue to sit in Maw installation undisturbed until ABY 11. It is not under imperial control because Daala isn't the Emperor, not does Daala have contact with said Emperor.

The quote I posted directly states Palpatine has communications with Daala...

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Here's a thought, how about the surviving loyalist Primarchs return? That would be great, wouldn't it? I mean, they're part of the Imperium, are they not? (Protip: Not at the time this war occurs, and neither is the sun crusher present before Endor)

Yeah, not comparable at all. Try again.

Edit: Although I guess the Lion awakening is a possibility.

"The Sun Crusher was built by using funds diverted from the Death Star I project by the Maw Installation that was secretly built by Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin for the development of experimental weapons technologies. He then assigned the Maw Installation to Admiral Natasi Daala, a female Imperial Navy officer. Unknown even to Emperor Palpatine, the Maw Installation was quickly forgotten after Tarkin's death at the Battle of Yavin."

Here, have a conflicting quote.

Entirely comparable. You're trying to give the GE an advantage they do not have at the point in their history from which they are attacking the IoM in this thread. Period. Same thing.

Even so, the Suncrusher would blow up all of one star before the Imperium teleported teminators on board and packed it with melta charges.

That's from Wookieepedia... Hardly, a legitimate source. My quote was from the novel Death Star.

And, no, I'm hardly trying to give the GE an advantage. As I've already said, I've seen no proof that the Sun Crusher was built as of Endor. However, as the novel's quote shows us, Palpatine could contact the Maw Instillation. It wasn't lost like many of the Primarchs are.

And the Jedi Academy Trilogy specifies that he didn't know. It's also worth pointing out the horrible inconsistencies him knowing of it would cause. The Deathstar that all of the fuss of the original trilogy was about? Small potatoes.

The Suncrusher's existence is irrelevant because it wasn't accounted for. It was, indeed, lost.

Provide the quote from the Jedi Academy trilogy that says that Sideous didn't know.

Checkmate.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And the Jedi Academy Trilogy specifies that he didn't know. It's also worth pointing out the horrible inconsistencies him knowing of it would cause.

Quote from the novel?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The Deathstar that all of the fuss of the original trilogy was about? Small potatoes.

Palpatine may not have know of the Sun Crusher. Furthermore, the Sun Crusher can't store a fleet nor does it have the same size. When the Sun Crusher appears in your system you won't know unless the Empire tells you, but when the DS appears it dominates the sky. A clear sign of Imperial might and power which says "submit or die".

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The Suncrusher's existence is irrelevant because it wasn't accounted for. It was, indeed, lost.

Quote?

Here's a website where you can download every Star Wars book Scream. If you actually want to check.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Provide the quote from the Jedi Academy trilogy that says that Sideous didn't know.

Checkmate. You're doing that thing again. The one I keep telling you to stop doing.


Whatever, I just realized I'm arguing with the OP about what the GE can have in his own thread. Neat. While he is technically wrong because this is the GE as of ABY 4 and Daala was completely unaware of anything outside the Maw Instillation until ABY 11, fine, they can have the Sun crusher.



Big difference that made.

The Sun Crusher also uses torpedo's, of which I doubt they have an unlimited or even sizable amount. They aren't beating the Imperium with just that. It could do unspeakable damage if it destroyed the Forge Worlds and killed the Emperor though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Sun Crusher also uses torpedo's, of which I doubt they have an unlimited or even sizable amount. They aren't beating the Imperium with just that. It could do unspeakable damage if it destroyed the Forge Worlds and killed the Emperor though. It has 11, and they're not replaceable.

Terra is one of over a million worlds, the odds of the Sun crusher getting it by chance are extremely poor, and the Imperium will know the threat it poses before it ever nears Terra.

Then Terminators.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're doing that thing again. The one I keep telling you to stop doing.


Whatever, I just realized I'm arguing with the OP about what the GE can have in his own thread. Neat. While he is technically wrong because this is the GE as of ABY 4 and Daala was completely unaware of anything outside the Maw Instillation until ABY 11, fine, they can have the Sun crusher.



Big difference that made. I'm not sure how telling you to provide evidence of the claim you're making is trolling, lol. I know that you don't have the JA academy and probably got that statement from Wookiepedia, but I think it's a common courtesy for everyone to have at least working knowledge of the universe's they're arguing about.

Anyway, the Imperium's communication is so terrible that it would take literally years for them to figure out what was attacking them, and by then it would be too late. In the Imperial Guard codex it's pointed out that it took over a hundred years for the Adeptus Munitorum to notice that some Guardsmen regiment had stopped sending reports, at which point they declared the regiment to be traitor renegades, when the reality is that they were destroyed in the Warp over a century prior. lawlz.

Imperium sensors are designed to detect fleets via their warp signatures- The Empire does not use the warp - thus the Imperium will basically be blind up until the moment that the fleet comes out of Hyperspace. Imperium defenses are designed to deal with forces that travel in the same manner that they do, taking months, even years (Eisenhorn) to travel across the Galaxy. The Empire can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other in a week.

There never will be a time where the Imperium collectively is aware of what's going on. Eventually the Empire will capture and interrogate enough people to figure out what Terra is and where it is (to my knowledge, the physical location of Terra has never been a big secret, more likely, the Imperium relies on the fact that no sane creature would assault their most heavily guarded sanctum), and then it's Crusher time.

As well, unless the Imperium actually captured the Sun-Crusher, they would have no idea that it exists, or of its capabilities. So even if they figured out that there was this massive fleet of ships wandering around the Galaxy, destroying Imperum planets, they could very well fortify Terra and Mars with everything they've got, they still wouldn't be prepared for a 30 foot long ship that has zero warp-signature to suddenly appear at the sun, and shoot a missile into it.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I'm not sure how telling you to provide evidence of the claim you're making is trolling, lol. I know that you don't have the JA academy and probably got that statement from Wookiepedia, but I think it's a common courtesy for everyone to have at least working knowledge of the universe's they're arguing about.

Anyway, the Imperium's communication is so terrible that it would take literally years for them to figure out what was attacking them, and by then it would be too late. In the Imperial Guard codex it's pointed out that it took over a hundred years for the Adeptus Munitorum to notice that some Guardsmen regiment had stopped sending reports, at which point they declared the regiment to be traitor renegades, when the reality is that they were destroyed in the Warp over a century prior. lawlz.

Imperium sensors are designed to detect fleets via their warp signatures- The Empire does not use the warp - thus the Imperium will basically be blind up until the moment that the fleet comes out of Hyperspace. Imperium defenses are designed to deal with forces that travel in the same manner that they do, taking months, even years (Eisenhorn) to travel across the Galaxy. The Empire can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other in a week.

There never will be a time where the Imperium collectively is aware of what's going on. Eventually the Empire will capture and interrogate enough people to figure out what Terra is and where it is (to my knowledge, the physical location of Terra has never been a big secret, more likely, the Imperium relies on the fact that no sane creature would assault their most heavily guarded sanctum), and then it's Crusher time.

As well, unless the Imperium actually captured the Sun-Crusher, they would have no idea that it exists, or of its capabilities. So even if they figured out that there was this massive fleet of ships wandering around the Galaxy, destroying Imperum planets, they could very well fortify Terra and Mars with everything they've got, they still wouldn't be prepared for a 30 foot long ship that has zero warp-signature to suddenly appear at the sun, and shoot a missile into it. You were posting exactly in line with how you always do when you troll. Sideline cheerleading without contribution. 'Checkmate' lol. Just a touch irksome.

The sun crusher is a non-factor, NemeBro already pointed out the Imperium can do the same thing the Suncrusher does with it's own weapons, and they're not limited to 11 shots. It will be boarded.

Astropaths are actually a surprisingly /good/ method of FTL communication, what you described isn't a communication failure, it's communication having never been sent.

Months and years are not the norm, and you and I both know as much. It's just as possible to arrive before the distress call is sent as to arrive a year later. The Tyranid fluff indicates that the standard travel time for Imperial responses is actually just weeks.

Which is moot because there are always local defenses. Anything less than a dedicated force will be shot apart by the extant forces, it will be costly, and they cannot win naval confrontations. No matter where the Imperium attacks, that's a world lost for the Empire.

The Imperium has held the Orks, the Tyranids, the Eldar, the Necrons, and Chaos all at bay simultaneously. With none of them factoring into the mix, and the Imperium's combined attention on the GE, the GE is massively outclassed. Just Mars and Terra created hundreds of thousands of ships in a few decades, according to Thousand Sons. The production of the combined Imperium set to a war effort against one enemy? That's not to be trifled with, particularly when short of the sun crusher itself, the GE severely lacks in ships that can combat those fielded by the Imperium.

Interrogation? Lol. That's not a one sided affair, either. The Inquisition is no longer busy with xenos and heretics. They can extract just as much information from the Empire. Things like how Hyperspace routes work. Shame the Empire can't touch the warp.

Blowing up the Terran sun? The crusher would be boarded or even destroyed before getting its' shot off, assuming they somehow found Terra (probing even the nearest systems to their invasion point would take the Empire months and they have no idea the importance of Terra.

They unveil some shiny super weapon to try and intimidate the Imperium and what happens? They've shown their hand, it's over. The Imperium cannot be intimidated, especially not by weapons that do things their own weapons can. It gets boarded and destroyed or taken, the only planet it could possibly destroy that could win it the war is Terra, and the odds of that happening are piss poor. It's a longer shot than is worth discussing. It will never happen in ten times. Not even in a hundred. We would have to have this debate a hundred thousand times before the option was worth discussing.

The Imperium for all it's faults isn't run by complete retards. It only takes seeing the sun crusher fire once, and having the astropath aboard a vessel in the system send out a message. Or even jump into the warp, where they're untouchable, and go somewhere to deliver the news personally. This isn't complicated.

How many Psykers serve the Imperium? And how many of them are high-level Psykers? I was browsing Lexicanum and it seemed to imply that some Psykers have predictive capabilities. Dunno if that's true, but IF it is, it is certainly a very useful tool for the Imperium.

Does the GE regularly employ force-users?

Another point to consider is the length of time a war of this magnitude would take to prosecute. During that time, it is very feasible that both sides might gain access to some of each other's technology. So it's entirely possible that GE will be warp-capable and the Imperium might have FTL-technology. Something to think about.

Originally posted by AmbientFire
How many Psykers serve the Imperium? And how many of them are high-level Psykers? I was browsing Lexicanum and it seemed to imply that some Psykers have predictive capabilities. Dunno if that's true, but IF it is, it is certainly a very useful tool for the Imperium.

Does the GE regularly employ force-users?

Another point to consider is the length of time a war of this magnitude would take to prosecute. During that time, it is very feasible that both sides might gain access to some of each other's technology. So it's entirely possible that GE will be warp-capable and the Imperium might have FTL-technology. Something to think about.

Given the population of the Imperium, the number of psykers probably numbers in the trillions. It would be impossible to figure out just how many are high-level, though Alpha Plus psykers, the kind that can snap Titans in half with a gesture, would be extraordinarily rare. But yes, there are many psykers that are skilled in divination, so predicting that say, Terra would be attacked, would lead to even higher heightened security around the Sol System.

Also, no, I doubt either sides would do that. The GE lacks navigators and astropaths to guide their ships through the warp, and if they happen to not have a Gellar field on them, well, have you seen Event Horizon? Besides, Hyperspace is much, much better then warp-travel. The Imperium wouldn't gain FTL travel either, as the Mechanicum of Mars would likely declare everything in the GE to be tech-heresy.

Ship sizes:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123120/2462962-ship_chart.jpg

Space Marine to Clone combat, I'd say the 40K have a severe advantage overall.

This always amused me. EU Star Wars is lulz. mmm

Originally posted by Robtard
Ship sizes:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123120/2462962-ship_chart.jpg

Space Marine to Clone combat, I'd say the 40K have a severe advantage overall.

Well, the GE sure has the bigger penis-ship.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, the GE sure has the bigger penis-ship.

Meh, it's more like a slice of pizza than a penis.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, the GE sure has the bigger penis-ship. You'll note that while the ship is bigger, it's guns are not.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, the GE sure has the bigger penis-ship. Space Marine flagships can actually reach 22 kilometers, per Know No Fear.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Space Marine flagships can actually reach 22 kilometers, per Know No Fear.

Apparently there's also a 250km length Ultra Star Destroyer floating around. So the GE still has the biggest penis-ship.

Fairly certain that that's fan-fiction.