Rulk and Hercules vs Juggernaut

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googol
current Rulk
Classic Hercules

vs

Classic Juggernaut

Villelater
Juggernuat loses...from 3 factors...Speed,Strength and intelligence

googol
Originally posted by Villelater
Juggernuat loses...from 3 factors...Speed,Strength and intelligence speed? Juggernaut can run at 600 mph, strenght? he is a class 100 and always hangs with hulk no matter what hulk he is facing.

intelligence? Herc is not known for been a genious, neither Rulk...

Villelater
fine...2 against one...don't know where you get 600 mph from and juggernuat ranks only 2 in speed...and intelligence...Rulk will do most of the fighting here while Hercules will switch whenever an issue occurs until Rulk gets back up...Juggernuat loses when Rulk gets juiced up enough and starts giving all he's got...or if Hercules get mad enough

Magnon
Classic Juggernaut wins eventually.

The team doesn't have the tools to put him down.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Villelater
fine...2 against one...don't know where you get 600 mph from and juggernuat ranks only 2 in speed...and intelligence...Rulk will do most of the fighting here while Hercules will switch whenever an issue occurs until Rulk gets back up...Juggernuat loses when Rulk gets juiced up enough and starts giving all he's got...or if Hercules get mad enough

When Colossus had his powers, he was clocked at 600, which is where he's getting the number from, I believe.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/75222/2020813-uncanny_x_men_543_0014_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/75222/2020814-uncanny_x_men_543_0015_super.jpg

Magnon
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When Colossus had his powers, he was clocked at 600, which is where he's getting the number from, I believe.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/75222/2020813-uncanny_x_men_543_0014_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/75222/2020814-uncanny_x_men_543_0015_super.jpg

Actually, those scans imply an even greater speed. According to the narration, he travelled 60 miles in 5 minutes which makes his AVERAGE speed to be 720 mph (expressed in the silly UK/US units). Since he was BELOW the average at the start (0 mph) and in the end (600 mph) he must've been ABOVE the average somewhere during the trip. So his peak speed could've been something like 800-1000 mph.

KingD19
There's no way Cain can lose. Classic Juggernaut with his force field and enough strength to fight just about any high end Class 100 and eventually outmatch them gives him the win.

And lol at his speed rating being 2. Somebody focuses on handbooks too much methinks.

Villelater
either way running speed ain't going to mean much if he's a grapple battle with Rulk...and he will have a hard time stopping himself if he goes too fast...anyway its his fighting speed thats at 2...he will lose that forcefield eventually and thats when he will start to drop,its like when thors 2nd fight...when they give juggernuat there all they will win...

KingD19
Hahahah. Lose his forcefield? It doesn't work that way. His forcefield is always up, and Thor had to use an enchantment to take it away for 60 seconds. Even then Cain was still putting up a fight, even though he's plenty durable without the forcefield.

Hercules and Rulk don't have access to Mjolnir and Thor's magic though, so the forcefield stays, and Juggernaut beats them down.

Villelater
forcefield goes away...when Rulk reaches full power...a gamma mutants strengh potential is much higher than juggernuats...eventually juggernuats attacks won't cut it...the only reason you think juggernuats shield is unbrakable by physical force is because there's not enough evidence for your using

KingD19
Originally posted by Villelater
forcefield goes away...when Rulk reaches full power...a gamma mutants strengh potential is much higher than juggernuats...eventually juggernuats attacks won't cut it...the only reason you think juggernuats shield is unbrakable by physical force is because there's not enough evidence for your using


You're funny, man.

His forcefield has been stated and shown to be indestructible. No one has ever been able to get through it, only circumvent it like Thor did. The only evidence to go by is what's shown on panel, and nobody has ever gotten through the forcefield.

And Juggernaut has never been outclassed in strength. He's fought Hulk several times, including World War Hulk who would take it to Rulk, esepcially now that he's a joke and can't even use his energy powers anymore.

And Rulk doesn't get stronger like Hulk does. He starts releasing radiation and literally getting hot, adding that extra effect to his attacks.

So again I reiterate, Juggernaut wins. Happy Dance

janus77
Rulk & Herc ftw. Nothing Juggernaut can do to take them both out.

KingD19
Except beat Rulk into submission as many people have done. (Wonderman, Hulk, the list goes on), and do the same to Hercules. Or BFR him if he's a problem.

I want to know how you expect either of them to bypass his forcefield.

janus77
Punch through it, as Onslaught has done as Captain Universe has done...

You're overrating Juggernaut if you think he can take on Hercules AND Rulk.

KingD19
He didn't have his force field when he fought Onslaught. He'd already lost it and his other powers save durability/strength/unstoppable momentum to free himself from that other dimension.

And when he fought Captain Universe, he still didn't have it. Even then, Universe hit him with a mental blast that knocked him out. He didn't beat him physically, as when they started to fight, Cain pointed out how he wouldn't take him by surprise this time, and he was winning until the guy lost the powers.

You're overrating Rulk as he's a jobber, and Hercules because he isn't on a level to get through that forcefield.

TheGodKiller
Juggernaut wins.

golem370
Juggernaut has literally walked over Thunderstrike

Villelater
forcefield is brakable...Rulk wins and besides Rulk can absorb energy...All hercules has to do is blind juggernuat by climbing on his back and use those hands of his...do you get why Rulk&herc wins?

golem370
Has anybody broke with physcial force? Classic Juggernaut

KingD19
No. It's never been done.

And Villelater, Rulk can't use those powers anymore, and just straight up chooses not to.

And no, his forcefield can not be broken. It's never been broken in a comic, so for you to assume it can is foolish and nothing but wishful thinking.

That's like saying this guy has never been able to fly or been shown to fly, but then saying, "He can fly if he wants to."

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by golem370
Has anybody broke with physcial force? Classic Juggernaut
I doubt it. Thor's Godblast(which only overpowered Juggernaut's unstoppability hax, and gave him mild vertigo) was the highest thing it was tested against, and it didn't get the job done from the looks of it. That's a power output orders of magnitude greater than what either Rulk or Herc are capable of producing here, so the Juggernaut takes this battle handily.

DarkSaint85
Juggy wins.

nwg202
How many times exactly has juggs used that forcefield?

KingD19
Enough times that it's usually associated with "Classic" Juggernaut.

vansonbee
Juggernaut rarely use his force field, only time were, when he was on a mission or getting attack by non brick characters.

Hercules and Rulk might have a chance, if Force Field isn't a factor and I'm assuming people believe Cain can replicate Colossus speed feat? Cain may gain those speed feat, but he has to build up momentum, which I believe team 1 can dodge.

KingD19
As I said, Classic Juggernaut has used it and it's been explained enough that it's a part of the "Classic" character.

So it would be a factor in this fight. He's used when he fought Hulk, used it when he fought Thor two out of the three times they fought, etc...

carver9
You cant throw Colossus speed ft to Juggernaut since it was explicitly stated that Cytorrak fed Colossus more power than Cain.

Villelater
soo he gets bounced around like a pinball until his shield brakes? also if his helmet is off Rulk can punch him in the head...hercules will get juggs helmet off then blind him

carver9
This fight is an endless stalemate. I don't think anyone here is knocking someone out...sorry. Juggernaut main factor is his durability but he will be knocked around the entire time in this fight. You can't compare who Jugs fought back then to current characters due to the characters compared today growing in power.

Juggernaut slapping around Classic Colossus isn't the same as slapping around Current Colossus who's received a major amp since then. Can't use Hulk either since Rulk fought WWH, not Savage Hulk. Hulk received a major amp as well compared to his previous incarnation. Hell, the Hulk that Rulk fought was> the World at War Hulk Juggernaut fought.

With that said, this is a stalemate.

KingD19
Originally posted by Villelater
soo he gets bounced around like a pinball until his shield brakes? also if his helmet is off Rulk can punch him in the head...hercules will get juggs helmet off then blind him


Wow...you...you don't even read comics do you?

It's a forcefield that's barely over the surface of his skin, and no, he doesn't get bounced around like a pinball. THey hit the forcefield, their hits do nothing, then they get beat up.

And his helmet isn't to protect his head from physical damage, it's to protect from psychic assaults. He can take a punch just fine, but he has no mental defenses, which is how he's been defeated by Xavier most of the time.

Lol, you're funny.

golem370
Good Juggernaut speed showing

Hulk #403

Villelater
Juggernuats head is more vulnerable than you think...also even the shield juggernuat can be picked up and thrown...you guys only support classic juggs because he was hardly used...he got lucky by not being able to finish his fight with hulk...who would of been enraged to a point where juggs would of lost...again my opinion...again your lucky...again 2 vs 1...Rulk and Hercules eventually wins...doesn't matter what i say though or even juggernuats stats on profiles...you support juggs here and i don't...im done with this arguement...so yeah i believe i won...tis true you know...i have my beliefs

DarkSaint85
Its just strange that you have no limits to Hulk's strength, but you give limits to Juggy's durability, that's all.

KingD19
Originally posted by Villelater
Juggernuats head is more vulnerable than you think...also even the shield juggernuat can be picked up and thrown...you guys only support classic juggs because he was hardly used...he got lucky by not being able to finish his fight with hulk...who would of been enraged to a point where juggs would of lost...again my opinion...again your lucky...again 2 vs 1...Rulk and Hercules eventually wins...doesn't matter what i say though or even juggernuats stats on profiles...you support juggs here and i don't...im done with this arguement...so yeah i believe i won...tis true you know...i have my beliefs

You use what times a character was used as a base for their abilities. You can't say, "Well this guy was pretty much unbeatable when they showed him, but there's a chance he could be beaten. They just didn't write that." It's flawed and wishful thinking.

Classic Juggernaut was a monster who in a fight against Hercules and Current Rulk(who sucks big time right now) would take a win. It might not be a fast win, but he'd wear them down and win. And it's a bit of ABC logic, but all 3 times Juggernaut fought Thor, he had Thor on the ropes. Yet Thor has fought pretty evenly with Hercules whenever they've brawled.

As for his "stats", handbooks and website entries only go so far. How about actually reading the comics he appeared in and seeing how big of a threat he was to anyone without psychic powers and the ability to get his helmet off.

And you can concede the argument if you want. But you've just been coming up with assumptions and what you "think" would happen. No actual facts or showings to support Rulk and Herc. You didn't win this battle, sorry bud.

Villelater
not strange...thanks to classic juggernuats lack of appearances i have to use character profiles to level him out...he is 7 in durability and hulk is 7 in strengh...so we count scores elsewhere...Hulk beats juggs in character profile points...not much to go on but...hey i didn't make there profile stats...and don't give me lip buddy i read all i could of classic juggernuat

DarkSaint85
Villy's new here, so I think we can cut him some slack..

Generally, Vil, we don't go by handbooks and stats here, just so you know. Opens up huge cans of worms (and they're disgusting).

Villelater
hey normally i don't use them either but in this case i don't got much to go on...i can't find any other comic images that prove classic juggernuats shield is brakable except thors...what you want me to do? i can admit defeat when im wrong...but im not seeing it at the moment

DarkSaint85
Maybe the reason you couldn't find any more examples...is because they don't exist?

Villelater
wha...don't exist? errm you must be more confused than me...theres only one example...and if that isn't what i saw...you can punch past his forcefield even when its on because it only detects certain attacks?...hmm don't exist what a thing to say...the answer is they never got enough time to exist...

KingD19
Exactly.

And Thor didn't "break" his forcefield. He used a spell to temporarily disrupt his forcefield so it didn't work for 60 seconds. A spell that like I previously pointed out, Rulk and Herc don't have access to.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Villelater
wha...don't exist? errm you must be more confused than me...theres only one example...and if that isn't what i saw...you can punch past his forcefield even when its on because it only detects certain attacks?...hmm don't exist what a thing to say...the answer is they never got enough time to exist...

With this post, yes, I am more confused than you are.

What examples of class Juggs' forcefield being breached do you have?

There's the Thor example, which isn't applicable , as KingD said.

Now, you're saying that given enough time, Rulk (not even Hulk) can do it??

The madder Rulk gets, the hotter he gets, not the stronger. Failing to do something would only make him hotter until he defeats himself.

Villelater
i thought that was a godblast not exactly a spell...eh oh well...you will defend him till the cows come home

KingD19
The Godblast was the first time he and Thor fought. All it did was push him back momentarily and make his tummy flip like a rollercoaster. Then the street broke under him as he started pushing against it.

The second time they fought on the asteroid he'd tricked Cain into flying to, he canceled out his forcefield with a spell and help from Mjolnir.

His forcefield has never been "broken" by anyone, especially with physical force.

KingD19
Originally posted by Villelater
wha...don't exist? errm you must be more confused than me...theres only one example...and if that isn't what i saw...you can punch past his forcefield even when its on because it only detects certain attacks?...hmm don't exist what a thing to say...the answer is they never got enough time to exist...

That's the only thing to say. If they don't exist, and his forcefield showed no weaknesses when it was in use. You can't speculate the contrary with no evidence or proof to back you up.

Villelater
didn't look no asteroid to me...you juggernuat defenders never give him a limit...if this was any other arguement like doomsday vs classic juggernuat you'd say the same thing

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Villelater
didn't look no asteroid to me...you juggernuat defenders never give him a limit...if this was any other arguement like doomsday vs classic juggernuat you'd say the same thing

There are TWO examples.

KingD19
The Godblast fight was in New York. Firestar and some other people jumped in and sealed Cain in a chunk of concrete, then blasted him into space iirc.

Next time Thor fought Cain, they were on an asteroid colony of some sort. That's when Thor disabled his shield and they duked it out. Thor almost won, but the forcefield came back in time. Then I believe he looped Cain's hand in Mjolnir and flew him off somewhere.

And he isn't given a limit because during his classic showings he was only ever defeated through creativity or telepathy. Never physical force.

If it was Classic Jugg against Doomsday, I'd say stalemate. Doomsday can't hurt Jugg, and Jugg can't put Doomsday down without him coming back.

Villelater
there...you said the same thing pretty much...the only reason juggernuat has no limit with his shield because writers weren't giv'in the chance...thats why and thanks to that reason no matter what brute i throw at classic juggs thats how it ends...i will it again...juggernuat defenders are lucky...but tis not matter...mister invincible isn't any fun...

DarkSaint85
We don't defend Juggernaut because we like him.

We defend him because he wins.

KingD19
If he'd kept the shield, there's more chance it would have held up against even more people and made Juggernaut even more hax. There was a reason back then you had to be crafty or have Xavier on your side to beat him.

And I know you want someone to be able to break his shield, but it's not going to happen, and as I said, there's more chance it would have only become more impressive over time if he'd kept it.

And there's no luck involved. It's just bad to match him up against purely physical people.

Villelater
i say that my foe is bad writing...

DarkSaint85
But you're Ok with Hulk getting exponentially stronger without a limit?

Villelater
whow when did i say that? doesn't matter... all that matters is juggernuat gets his power from cyrakk...which i don't know his limit

KingD19
Cyttorak is an extradimensional demon. The most powerful of the Octessence, and so powerful that the Vishanti wouldn't mess with him if they could avoid it. He also casually dismissed 2/4 of the Phoenix Force from his realm. He's pretty strong.

Villelater
there is only soo much power that can be givin before your master cuts it off...

DarkSaint85
He likes it when they cause destruction. So having a big fight would please him no end.

Villelater
didn't doctor strange meet cyrakk? and what caused juggernuats power to be tak'in away? before he got it back in world war hulk

KingD19
I don't remember if Strange actually met and or saw Cyttorak, but he does use the "Crimson Bands of Cyttorak" binding spell. So he knows of him at the very least.

And before he got his powers back, he lost most of them for generally not being as bad as Cytorak wanted. He still had his powers, but he was a lot weaker. Then when he fought Hulk, Cyttorak told him he basically had to give in to his rage and whatnot to get his powers back. So he did.

juggerman
Juggernaut wins unless they can BFR him.

Colossus-Big C
Purely physically characters cannot beat juggernaut unless by bfr or something.

So it doesnt matter if it was even SBP,Doomsday,Hulk vs Juggernaut.

Juggs is invincible to pure strength alone

juggerman
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Purely physically characters cannot beat juggernaut unless by bfr or something.

So it doesnt matter if it was even SBP,Doomsday,Hulk vs Juggernaut.

Juggs is invincible to pure strength alone

thumb up thumb up

yaadaveyaa
doesnt hulk just punish juggs? i could be wrong

juggerman
Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
doesnt hulk just punish juggs? i could be wrong

Like a time out?

googol
Originally posted by vansonbee
I'm assuming people believe Cain can replicate Colossus speed feat?

he is already as fast

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Durability/Healing

Beast confirms that Juggernaut is still virtually invulnerable w/o his FF:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Durability/UXM%2033/th_XMEN33pg18.jpg



Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
...continued.

Here the Juggernaut demonstrates he isn't just some slow, lumbering oaf. He can be fast if he wants to be:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Speed/th_SpeedFeatAA16.jpg



Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin

http://s2d3.turboimagehost.com/t/5696881_Thunderbolts_152_017-18.jpg

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
It is pretty clear they were indicating speed in the earlier issue.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7659/tbolts1450023.th.jpg

That sound is the waves breaking as Juggernaut takes each stride on the sound bridge. She wasn't accelerating him.

googol
Originally posted by Villelater
Juggernuats head is more vulnerable than you think... you dont read comics do you?

googol
Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
doesnt hulk just punish juggs? i could be wrong Hulk Cant punish juggernaut. just with outside help(celestial tech)

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