Sids, Dooku, Vader vs Malgus, Revan, Bane

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Jedi Mom
Team 1
RotS Sidious
RotS Dooku
RotJ Vader

Team 2
Darth Malgus
Darth Revan
RoT Bane

Setting: Geonosian arena

1. sabers
2. force
3. all out

juggerman
Team 2

The_Tempest
Anyone got feats for Malgus? Because it's looking like Team 2 will be stomped.

Nephthys
He's pretty damn powerful. Despite his incompetence Legend did manage to convince me of that. I'd put him at around Vader level.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's pretty damn powerful. Despite his incompetence Legend did manage to convince me of that. I'd put him at around Vader level.

You lost me at LeGenD convinced you.
We've talked about this.

The guy might be the single lol'est poster in the history KMC and not because he's witty.

jmoul
When you say RoT Bane, do you mean with or without orbalisks?

If it's with, then team two rapes all three rounds, but if it's without the orbalisks, then team one will win in sabers and all-out.

Nephthys
We had a massive argument about it. Eventually even he was bound to bring up some credible evidence. Like Malgus collapsing 2 buildings while injured, or having lightning capable of ashifying opponents, or shattering a pillar with a kick or whatever boo hoo, point is he's kind pf strong. At least Dooku level.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by jmoul
When you say RoT Bane, do you mean with or without orbalisks?

If it's with, then team two rapes all three rounds, but if it's without the orbalisks, then team one will win in sabers and all-out.

Son, my lauding of LeGenD as the most retarded poster in KMC's long history was not meant to be a challenge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We had a massive argument about it. Eventually even he was bound to bring up some credible evidence. Like Malgus collapsing 2 buildings while injured, or having lightning capable of ashifying opponents, or shattering a pillar with a kick or whatever boo hoo, point is he's kind pf strong. At least Dooku level.

I am... well, let's just say I'm skeptical. Too far down the dumb path has he gone. Do you have a link?

Nephthys
9 pages long debate, geez.

jmoul
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Son, my lauding of LeGenD as the most retarded poster in KMC's long history was not meant to be a challenge.

I was asking an honest question, as RoT Bane could mean Bane at his skill level then, not necessarily including orbalisk armor.

I know he had orbalisks on for most of RoT, as the Darth Bane series is my favorite series in EU.

Also, just for the record, the second quote tempest used is being falsely cited as something I said.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by jmoul
I was asking an honest question, as RoT Bane could mean Bane at his skill level then, not necessarily including orbalisk armor.

I know he had orbalisks on for most of RoT, as the Darth Bane series is my favorite series in EU.

Also, just for the record, the second quote tempest used is being falsely cited as something I said.

I meant the stompage, not your question.
Sorry about that, edited, I copied you down instead of Nephthys.

Nephthys
I could see orbalisk Bane pullling out a win here personally. It's not a stomp either way imo.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
9 pages long debate, geez.

You want me to read 9 pages of LeGenD?
So, I guess now is the time to ask: just what the fvck did I do to piss you off, lately?

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I could see orbalisk Bane pullling out a win here personally. It's not a stomp either way imo.

Feat-wise, Revan is outmatched against anyone on the first team. Malgus is going to have to be pretty uber to pick up that slack. Conversely, Sidious is more powerful than anyone on either team.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You want me to read 9 pages of LeGenD?
So, I guess now is the time to ask: just what the fvck did I do to piss you off, lately?

Theres also a pretty sweet video garme discussion in there.

Basically Windu was the best character and thats all there is to say on the matter.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Anyone got feats for Malgus? Because it's looking like Team 2 will be stomped.
To get an idea, just check the power and abilities section here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Malgus

One of his feats after the events of SWTOR (Hope) cinematic trailer:

"Malgus fell into the Force, roared, and hounded down the street, his anger lending his speed.

The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side and drew them both down with a flourish.

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crached down on him from either side of the street.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain or rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breath more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He's surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash on the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged."

Book of Sith reveals about Malgus' most potent abilities or so I have heard.

"In his quest for domination, Darth Sidious tracked down what remained of five pivotal Sith texts written by his most powerful predecessors."

Malgus have defeated and killed several powerful opponents.

Any sane person who has watched SWTOR (Return) cinematic trailer, wouldn't question Malgus' abilities.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Feat-wise, Revan is outmatched against anyone on the first team. Malgus is going to have to be pretty uber to pick up that slack. Conversely, Sidious is more powerful than anyone on either team.
We do not know much about (Darth) Revan actually. In the koTOR Campaign Guide, some of his abilities as a Sith Lord have been listed.

One feat of his, during this phase, is that he and Darth Malak were having disagreements and this led to a battle between the two during which he (Darth Revan) cut-off the lower jaw of Darth Malak. This was the turning point of the relationship between them and Darth Malak took revenge by betraying his Sith Master during the events of Jedi infiltration of Darth Revan's flagship.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's pretty damn powerful. Despite his incompetence Legend did manage to convince me of that. I'd put him at around Vader level.
Elaborate on the incompetence part.

For:

(1)

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You lost me at LeGenD convinced you.
We've talked about this.

The guy might be the single lol'est poster in the history KMC and not because he's witty.

(2)

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Son, my lauding of LeGenD as the most retarded poster in KMC's long history was not meant to be a challenge
And you have won KMC's greatest debater award, correct?

I find your assessment questionable when you:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You want me to read 9 pages of LeGenD?
So, I guess now is the time to ask: just what the fvck did I do to piss you off, lately?

- Do not even read my posts?

Lord Lucien
I don't think anyone reads your posts anymo--


damn it.

Nephthys
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Elaborate on the incompetence part.

You have some trouble getting your points across and sometimes use some extremely weak evidence to form arguments, like those images of Revan in the SWTOR Archives apparantly proving that Revans an awesome duelist.

But hey, I did admit that you had some convincing arguments in the link I posted. Thats a compliment.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't think anyone reads your posts anymo--


damn it.
But you do. And I like you. evil face

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
You have some trouble getting your points across and sometimes use some extremely weak evidence to form arguments, like those images of Revan in the SWTOR Archives apparantly proving that Revans an awesome duelist.
I understand that English is not my native language and sometimes my points (written in English) are not so clear to English speaking audience. However, what I dislike is when people misunderstand my points and judge me on the basis of their own error in judgements.

It is good that you brought the images part as an example. I never suggested that Revan was an awesome duelist on the basis of those images alone; what I argued was that Revan, being a Force-wielder, would have (logically) used lightsaber and Force in combat - prior to release of his novel. In contrast, critics were saying that he would have used guns and grenades instead.

Ironically, the critics turned out to be wrong and my logical assessment turned out to be correct. Their is no luck here; canonical tid-bits already hinted on Revan' combat preferences.

If I am incompetent, these critics are even more incompetent and they that take it out on me to conceal their own incompetence.

This thread contains more examples of incompetence of critics: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t572456.html

Now you get it?

Originally posted by Nephthys
But hey, I did admit that you had some convincing arguments in the link I posted. Thats a compliment.
I have handled even the likes of Lightsnake. No big deal.

However, thanks for complement.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
You have some trouble getting your points across and sometimes use some extremely weak evidence to form arguments,

I agree in sentiment, but must correct your adjectives.

Originally posted by Nephthys, corrected by The_Tempest
You have somegeneral trouble getting your points across and sometimesgenerally use some extremely weak evidence to form arguments,

This.

It's nothing personal, LeGenD. Your linguistic limitations are apparent and easily dealt with. Not everybody can master two languages to the extent Borbarad/Nai has.

It's the routine methodological errors you make that keep me from being interested in what you have to say.

For example, if I were to say that " says Dooku is one of the most powerful Jedi of all time," you'd respond with "Don't be so sure. Darth Malgus used EXTREMELY POWERFUL Force lightning and Force whirlwind" or something equally zany.

I'm not sure how to explain your error other than that what you have to say generally fails to refute any argument and exists only to remind people that you really like KotOR and its characters.

And a big lol @ you handling Lightsnake

Nephthys
Meany. >:[

The_Tempest
Nothing I said was mean.

I'm sure he's a nice guy.

Nephthys
You called him the most retarded poster in SWVF history. Worse than Darth Ray Park?! You jammy ****er, how is that not a meany thing to say?!!!!!!!!

SIDIOUS 66
SPEEDBLITZ!!!

Sidious wins.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
This.

It's nothing personal, LeGenD. Your linguistic limitations are apparent and easily dealt with. Not everybody can master two languages to the extent Borbarad/Nai has.
Bro, you have made your disliking for me clearly apparent in this thread. It is obvious from your reactions. Your unwillingness to read my posts; labelling me as the most retarted member of KMC; and belittling me in front of other members when they refer me; does seems like a personal thing.

Proving me wrong in a debate is one thing; belittling is another.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's the routine methodological errors you make that keep me from being interested in what you have to say.

For example, if I were to say that " says Dooku is one of the most powerful Jedi of all time," you'd respond with "Don't be so sure. Darth Malgus used EXTREMELY POWERFUL Force lightning and Force whirlwind" or something equally zany.

I'm not sure how to explain your error other than that what you have to say generally fails to refute any argument and exists only to remind people that you really like KotOR and its characters.
Thanks for this explanation. Now tell me that is it my fault that many EU characters are being depicted so powerful that Dooku no longer seems to be elite?

Yes, you do cite sources to support your points. But so do I. In addition, their are some issues such as; interpretation of sources; and retcons.

Debater X may cite a 2003 source to support his/her argument. Debater Y may cite a 2012 source to support his/her counter-argument. In the end, it depends upon how the debate is settled. Unfortunately, many debates end-up useless due to lack of flexibility from debaters involved.

I never attempt to hide my liking of KoTOR era lore. This lore got me hooked to Star Wars mythos; more-so then the works of GL. However, I also try to keep my bias/likings in check and do not argue for a KoTOR era character without sufficient reasoning. Unfortunately, PT/OT fanbase dislikes me for even attempting to debate in favor for KoTOR era characters.

I fully realize that if I will join PT/OT fanbase, my image will be redeemed in front of this fanbase. To hell with my choices, yeah?

What I find ironic is that comments like these are never ridiculed;

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
SPEEDBLITZ!!!

Sidious wins.

Of-course! I forgot that Darth Malgus, Darth Revan and Darth Bane are Sith equivalents of Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin.

In-fact, I am not surprised. All shaming tactics are reserved for the fans of KoTOR era lore.

@Sidious 66 (No pun intended)

You do often make good points. However, sometimes, you do make funny points like this one.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And a big lol @ you handling Lightsnake
See! This is your problem. When I put down or correct an argument of another debater; it is overlooked. No matter how cogent an assessment I may form; critics never appreciate. This is clear sign of personal bias.

At least, Neph is fair enough in his take on things. He appreciates well-constructed points of mine.

Lightsnake is a good debater. But he is overhyped in terms of reasoning abilities. In recent times, I have corrected him on many points with help from canonical sources. I don't have lot of time to dig out the threads to prove my point here. If you have missed these debates, tough for you. But do not judge on the basis of limited knowledge. And don't get personal.

I have debated in SWTOR official forums as well and some members of that community have appreciated my input there due to my habit of using sources to support my arguments. Lot of people just debate casually on this subject. This shows that their is nothing significantly wrong with me but their is something very wrong with those who dislike me in KMC.

Their is one debater in KMC whom I really find as extremely competent. And he is Nai. I often learn something new from him. His reasoning skills are so great that he can make others speechless.

Nephthys
To be fair, he did nail that impression of you. laughing

But yeah, you're alright. thumb up

ares834
The problem Legend, at least from my perspective, is the character you championed were generally featless. As such, you would tend to make numerous assumptions and leaps. Yes, they were often logical but they were still assumptions and not facts.

With the advent of the TOR era material your arguments have increased dramatically. I don't think anyone here has a problem with you going against the grain. Heck, if no one did argue for what they believed, most would still be hailing Ragnos as the supreme master of the force. The "hostility", at least from what I see, stems from your past (and I mean a few years back) arguments. Which, admittedly, isn't all that fair.

BTW, what is your username on the SWTOR forums? I used to argue on those forums until the game was released.

The_Tempest
For my part, this has little to do with his past. Relationships at KMC tend ever-evolving: for example, Nebaris used to annoy the shit out of me, then I began to respect him.

That said, I've found the quality of his arguments to have remained the same. That he now has some feats to hurl at the opposition instead of none is irrelevant when they're applied horribly.

The things I've bothered to read from him in recent times still highlight that problem you mention: rife with assumptions and extraordinary leaps.

I'm sure he's a nice guy and, like I said, it's nothing personal. He's just one of the few debaters whom I genuinely have little to no interest in reading or engaging.

That's the last I'll say on the subject publicly.

Nephthys
How can you gauge the quality of his arguments if you refuse to read them?

Originally posted by ares834
BTW, what is your username on the SWTOR forums? I used to argue on those forums until the game was released.

Its the same here.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by ares834
The problem Legend, at least from my perspective, is the character you championed were generally featless. As such, you would tend to make numerous assumptions and leaps. Yes, they were often logical but they were still assumptions and not facts.

With the advent of the TOR era material your arguments have increased dramatically. I don't think anyone here has a problem with you going against the grain. Heck, if no one did argue for what they believed, most would still be hailing Ragnos as the supreme master of the force. The "hostility", at least from what I see, stems from your past (and I mean a few years back) arguments. Which, admittedly, isn't all that fair.


Just about a week ago he was claiming that Revan can take on Mace, Kolar, Fisto, and Tiin all at once. I don't see much change in his arguments.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Of-course! I forgot that Darth Malgus, Darth Revan and Darth Bane are Sith equivalents of Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin.

In-fact, I am not surprised. All shaming tactics are reserved for the fans of KoTOR era lore.

@Sidious 66 (No pun intended)

You do often make good points. However, sometimes, you do make funny points like this one.


To be real with you, I wasn't actually being serious. It didn't really matter who Sidious' opponents were in this thread, as I would have said the same thing regardless. I wasn't intending to get a debate going, I was just being silly.

But come to think about it, I don't see how Revan or Malgus can prevent Sidious from blitzing them. Perhaps you can change my mind by listing some good quality saber and speed feats from them (in Revan's case, I'm almost positive that you can't list anything that will change my mind). But I'm not going to assume they are better saber duelists than someone like Fisto just 'cause you say so. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that they are superior force users than any of the three jedi masters that Sidious blitzed, but unless they can use the force to at least approach Sidious in speed, then they are going down pretty quick.


Originally posted by Nephthys
How can you gauge the quality of his arguments if you refuse to read them?


Originally posted by The_Tempest
The things I've bothered to read from him in recent times

ares834
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
But come to think about it, I don't see how Revan or Malgus can prevent Sidious from blitzing them. Perhaps you can change my mind by listing some good quality saber and speed feats from them (in Revan's case, I'm almost positive that you can't list anything that will change my mind). But I'm not going to assume they are better saber duelists than someone like Fisto just 'cause you say so. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that they are superior force users than any of the three jedi masters that Sidious blitzed, but unless they can use the force to at least approach Sidious in speed, then they are going down pretty quick.

So you assume they are on par or worse than Fisto?

SIDIOUS 66
Well, if Fisto were to fight either one of them, I would say he would likely lose a majority. They seem to be superior force users. Although if you count the CW mini series, Fisto does have some pretty good force feats. But I've seen nothing from them that suggests they are better saber duelists than Fisto.

Mizukage Yoda
Team 1 via feats wins with moderate difficulty, Team 1 with powerscaling wins with high difficulty.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66





To be real with you, I wasn't actually being serious.


That was difficult to tell. Since that is usually your "serious" answer in pretty much all threads concerning Sidious: "Sidious Speed Blitz"

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That was difficult to tell. Since that is usually your "serious" answer in pretty much all threads concerning Sidious: "Sidious Speed Blitz"


Really? Name them, please.

Based
Malgus is good but he's not Bane or Vader level. Not when a Padawan Satele (despite how great she is) gave him trouble. I don't even think he could beat Revan more times than not.

Team 1 7/10.

S_W_LeGenD

The_Tempest
This is not an adequate response to SIDIOUS66. It is, however, a perfect example of the problem to which I alluded earlier.

This is less an argument for how Revan could defeat Mace and co. than it is a general endorsement of Revan as a fighter.

We're not interested in such things. We know Revan is powerful. What we need to know is what feats he has to suggest he could take on Jedi Masters of this caliber.



This is also an inadequate response to SIDIOUS66. Being faster than a non-Force sensitive does not mean that Malgus can't or won't be blitzed by Sidious. You need only look to Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto for proof of that.



Another inadequate response. This does not constitute a favorable comparison between Malgus and Sidious. Nothing you've indicated so far is evidence against the idea that Malgus is anything but fodder for Sidious.



Yet again, another inadequate response. Malgus's physical strength is not a decisive advantage. Per Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy, Sidious blocked and held a lock with one hand against a two-handed strike from Savage Opress (while simultaneously engaging Maul), who is also prodigiously strong.

You commit similar errors in the rest of your post with Revan. You seem keen on arguing two points: (1) Malgus is not fodder for Sidious and (2) Revan is comparable to Sidious in speed or at least is fast enough to defeat the Jedi arrayed against him here.

You have failed entirely to provide any shred of evidence to suggest this. You need to compare their feats, and in the proper context.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
This is not an adequate response to SIDIOUS66. It is, however, a perfect example of the problem to which I alluded earlier.

This is less an argument for how Revan could defeat Mace and co. than it is a general endorsement of Revan as a fighter.

We're not interested in such things. We know Revan is powerful. What we need to know is what feats he has to suggest he could take on Jedi Masters of this caliber.
Their is difference between recognized as powerful and as the Jedi Order's greatest champion; logically an individual who is recognized as one of the finest in Jedi Order's history, possess skills that set him/her apart from the majority. For example; Meetra Surik was powerful; however, Revan was the Jedi Order's greatest champion.

Revan's reaction time is instantaneous and his command of the Force exceptional;

It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met.

You realize whom Meetra Surik has met? She has met some extremely powerful and dangerous Sith Lords and lot of Jedi. However, her assessment is in front of you.

Therefore, their is a good chance that Revan can overwhelm the Jedi Strike Team (in question) with his Force powers and prevent them from taking him out with their blades; none of the Jedi that form this Jedi Strike Team are noted for having exceptional command of the Force; these Jedi are rather noted for their proficiency in bladework, but among them, Mace is the only Jedi whose reaction time seemed to be above average, so I don't think that the other 3 would stand-up to Revan' assaults at all. Mace is the only individual who can make difference here but he can also be overwhelmed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
This is also an inadequate response to SIDIOUS66. Being faster than a non-Force sensitive does not mean that Malgus can't or won't be blitzed by Sidious. You need only look to Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto for proof of that.
Fine. But what notable kills these 3 Jedi have to their name?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Another inadequate response. This does not constitute a favorable comparison between Malgus and Sidious. Nothing you've indicated so far is evidence against the idea that Malgus is anything but fodder for Sidious.

Yet again, another inadequate response. Malgus's physical strength is not a decisive advantage. Per Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy, Sidious blocked and held a lock with one hand against a two-handed strike from Savage Opress (while simultaneously engaging Maul), who is also prodigiously strong.
Riight. Sidious performed that feat with combination of his strength in the Force and also skills with his bladework.

Now watch this video again:http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trailers/return

The Jedi Master (Kao Cen Darach) seems to be extraordinarily talented in lightsaber dueling arts and his command of the Force is also impressive. He handled two prodigiously strong Sith Lords simultaneously for a reasonable amount of time and while doing so, he not just saved his padawan but also knocked out the Sith Master (Inquisitor) in the process. But then Malgus got enraged and virtually nothing was sufficient to stop him. Maglus becomes overwhelming once he gets enraged; he manages to significantly boost his already extraordinary strength in the process.

Several years later, Malgus killed another formidable Jedi Master (Ven Zallow);

Malgus finally spotted Master Zallow ten paces away, whirling, spinning, his green blade a blur of precision and speed. One Sith Warrior fell to him, another. Lord Adraas landed before him, trying to take Malgus's kill for himself. Adraas ducked low and slashed at Zallow's knees. Zallow leapt over the blow and unleashed a blast of energy that sent Adraas skidding on his back side across the hall.

This guy is Lord Adraas (picture shows him shattering a portion of the Jedi Temple floor):

http://i39.tinypic.com/zx39mt.png

Zallow must have heard Malgus, for he turned, met his eyes. Eleena, too, must have heard Malgus's shouting. She emerged from beind the column, deduced Malgus's intent, and fired several shots at Zallow.

Zallow, his eyes on Malgus throughout, deflected the bolts with his blade and sent them back at Eleena. Two struck her, and as he collapsed, Zallow used a Force blast to drive her body against a Column.

Notice that this Jedi Master comfortably knocked out a skilled firearms user without even looking at her?

And Malgus' angry reaction in response:

Anger refilled him, overcame him. A shout of hate, raw and jagged, burst from his throat. Power went with it, shattering a nearby column and sending a rain of stone shards through the room.

And afterwards, this is how things went;

http://i44.tinypic.com/9rkode.png

It was one heck of a fight which ended with Zallow getting impaled by Malgus. Once again, Maglus becomes overwhelming once he gets enraged; he manages to significantly boost his already extraordinary strength in the process.

Not just this, Malgus' command of the Force is no joke either. He is recognized as one of the most powerful predecessors of Sidious in the Book of Sith. READ IT.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You commit similar errors in the rest of your post with Revan. You seem keen on arguing two points: (1) Malgus is not fodder for Sidious and (2) Revan is comparable to Sidious in speed or at least is fast enough to defeat the Jedi arrayed against him here.
For Malgus, see above.

For Revan, I don't understand that how you failed to grasp what I just presented? Do you suck at analyzing non-footage materials?

I just proved that Revan's reaction time is instantaneous. None of the 3 Jedi who got blitzed by Sidious seem to have instantaneous reaction. Reaction time is determined by precognition. The 3 Jedi were skilled swordsmen but none of them seem to possess precognition abilities on the level of Revan (who is particularly noted for having remarkable precognition abilities). This is how they failed to anticipate Sidious' moves against them. In comparison, Mace' had better precognition and he sank in to his Vaapad which helped him go toe-to-toe with Sidious. Mace created Vaapad to address his weaknesses.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You have failed entirely to provide any shred of evidence to suggest this. You need to compare their feats, and in the proper context.
I think that I have clarified my points now. Don't tell me now that this response is not adequate enough either. Otherwise, you will be proving yourself as a Sidious worshipper and nothing else.

The_Tempest
facepalm

My friend, you have all the charm of a prostate exam. Given that I consider you to be among the worst posters in this forum's long history and certainly the worst of the semi-active remainder, what incentive do I have to debate this issue with you?

I'm merely pointing out the enduring methodological errors in your arguments to better illustrate why my inclination involving your posts is simply to roll my eyes and move on.

You come to this thread with a picture of Revan swinging his lightsaber at random mook's chest and excerpts that Malgus can move faster than a non-Force user, and what? You expect that to constitute evidence of their ability to not get blitzed by someone who laid waste to three of the Order's "most celebrated swordmasters" before Mace Windu "realized what happened" (The Complete Visual Dictionary)? Among them, Saesee Tiin, who is regarded as possessing some of the strongest Force abilities in the order at the time (The Official Fact File #114) and renowned for his telepathic gifts among the Jedi (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia)? Or Agen Kolar, who held his own against Mace Windu in their sparring matches and curbstomped Quinlan Vos in a manner unlike any but Count Dooku? Or Kit Fisto, who manhandled General Grievous, who holds his own against and/or defeats the likes of Asajj Ventress and Obi-Wan Kenobi, established fighters with a myriad of dueling feats?

I'm not saying Revan couldn't defeat the trio or that Malgus will necessarily be blitzed, I'm saying you haven't provided a single shred of evidence to make me believe otherwise. Revan considering himself the Jedi's champion is ultimately irrelevant: Mace Windu and Obi-Wan regard the trio who died at Sidious's hands as some of the best fighters the Order ever produced.

Essentially, you come before me with pennies and mistake it for a fortune. Try harder. What you're doing isn't analysis, it's bullshit. You make broader leaps more frequently than any Force user we've seen.

SIDIOUS66 can respond if he deigns to. Now that I see Nephthys and Ares' faith in you was entirely mistaken, I can now question their sanity and go back to ignoring you, relishing the fact that, as usual, I was right.

Nephthys
Er......

The_Tempest
You really should be ashamed of yourself, bro.

Jedi Mom
don't hate love

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You really should be ashamed of yourself, bro.

In my defense.....

Sidious probably could speedblitz Malgus and Revan.

Darth _Sadow1
Originally posted by Nephthys
In my defense.....

Sidious probably could speedblitz Malgus and Revan.
Theoretically yes. Nothing either has done can suggest otherwise. Then it becomes Vader, Sidious, and Dooku vs Bane. Even Bane can't stop all three....

The_Tempest
The only one Bane would probably take one-on-one is Dooku. Sidious would wreck him and Vader has a solid 50/50 chance due to superior Force powers.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You come to this thread with a picture of Revan swinging his lightsaber at random mook's chest and excerpts that Malgus can move faster than a non-Force user, and what? You expect that to constitute evidence of their ability to not get blitzed by someone who laid waste to three of the Order's "most celebrated swordmasters" before Mace Windu "realized what happened" (The Complete Visual Dictionary)? Among them, Saesee Tiin, who is regarded as possessing some of the strongest Force abilities in the order at the time (The Official Fact File #114) and renowned for his telepathic gifts among the Jedi (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia)? Or Agen Kolar, who held his own against Mace Windu in their sparring matches and curbstomped Quinlan Vos in a manner unlike any but Count Dooku? Or Kit Fisto, who manhandled General Grievous, who holds his own against and/or defeats the likes of Asajj Ventress and Obi-Wan Kenobi, established fighters with a myriad of dueling feats?


Originally posted by The_Tempest
SIDIOUS66 can respond if he deigns to.


There's really no need to anymore.

Nothing he has posted proves Revan or Malgus has the speed to compete with Sidious. Hell, he hasn't even proved that their speed is beyond any of the masters Sidious did blitz. But at least he can't say no one gave him a chance to make his case.

I do want to address this though:



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I just proved that Revan's reaction time is instantaneous. None of the 3 Jedi who got blitzed by Sidious seem to have instantaneous reaction. Reaction time is determined by precognition. The 3 Jedi were skilled swordsmen but none of them seem to possess precognition abilities on the level of Revan (who is particularly noted for having remarkable precognition abilities). This is how they failed to anticipate Sidious' moves against them.


You do realize that in order to deflect blasters bolts, it requires precognition and instant reaction, right? Each of these Jedi can deflect numerous blaster bolts with ease. Not only was Fisto able to react to Grievous's (who has better speed feats than Revan) lightsaber blows, but his own lightsaber strikes were also fast enough to force Grievous on the defensive. So how is it that Revan has greater reaction speed than these three jedi masters? See again, you make another claim about Revan superiority despite him having no superior feats to prove it.

Jedi Mom
bane has his orbalisk btw

Nephthys
http://www.easymemegenerator.co.uk/templates/Victory_Baby.jpg

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yet, Revan cut down an Imperial Guard in few steps; a game that ended in seconds.
This when the Imperial Guard was being empowered by the Sith Emperor himself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Apart from this Revan have fought through whole armies and even singlehandedly dealt with gigantic droids and vice versa. Try to comprehend his precognitive abilities which even Echani admired.
Not to forget that Revan held his own against a Sith Strike Team comprised of 4 bad@sses in the Galaxy after 300 f**kin years of imprisonment and mental exertion against the Sith Emperor.

The_Tempest
Sidious solos, really.
Revan and Malgus are clearly fodder and Sidious can outpace Saesee Tiin, one of the order's most capable precogs and telepaths, with ease. Comparatively, neither Revan or Malgus have the feats to suggest they could compare with Tiin, let alone Sidious.

Bane, the only reasonably capable warrior on team 2, would last a few seconds longer.

But it's pretty evident that this is a spite match-up. I say drop the literal dead weight (Malgus and Revan) and throw Vader and Dooku on Bane's side.

Darth _Sadow1
Vader, Dooku, and Bane vs Sidious huh? Wow.....Sidious would Blitz Dooku and Vader and again, it would be Bane vs Sidious....

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious solos, really.
Revan and Malgus are clearly fodder and Sidious can outpace Saesee Tiin, one of the order's most capable precogs and telepaths, with ease. Comparatively, neither Revan or Malgus have the feats to suggest they could compare with Tiin, let alone Sidious.

Bane, the only reasonably capable warrior on team 2, would last a few seconds longer.

But it's pretty evident that this is a spite match-up. I say drop the literal dead weight (Malgus and Revan) and throw Vader and Dooku on Bane's side.
Bullshit.

Revan's reaction time is instantaneous. By all accounts, Revan is extraordinarily fast.

The_Tempest
So is TPM!Obi-Wan.



^ This is Obi-Wan Kenobi shortly before the events of TPM, who is also reacting "instantaneously." Of course he's moving his entire body, whereas Revan is making adjustments with his limbs.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
So is TPM!Obi-Wan.



^ This is Obi-Wan Kenobi shortly before the events of TPM, who is also reacting "instantaneously." Of course he's moving his entire body, whereas Revan is making adjustments with his limbs.
Apples and Oranges comparison. Useless.

TheOneOfMortis
Originally posted by Nephthys
You called him the most retarded poster in SWVF history. Worse than Darth Ray Park?! You jammy ****er, how is that not a meany thing to say?!!!!!!!!

**** you

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I don't feel the need to prove anything to you when all you can do is pretend to be smart ass and ignore any explanations that may help us move forward in a debate. Good luck with your PT/OT worshipping.


Their faith in OT/PT worshippers like you is also misplaced. Frankly speaking you are the worst debater in KMC. I mean its true, for example if you want to prove that revan is fast, you basically argue like this :

"Revan is FASTER tahn te dudes u mentioned!1!"

*picks up a revan book with a quote stating he moved fast*

and then you go, "SEE? the quote stated hes FAST and UNPREDICTABLE, therefore he is ubar!!!!!" and you form your entire argument on one single quote.

That and you ignore any sources that show characters you hate which perform vastly superior feats than the ones you keep stroking your mushroom tip to((most notably revan and tor characters).

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Frankly speaking you are the worst debater in KMC. I mean its true, for example if you want to prove that revan is fast, you basically argue like this :

"Revan is FASTER tahn te dudes u mentioned!1!"
Another wannabe judge here.

Revan outsmarted a foe in just a couple of steps who was formidable enough to go toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen in combat. This is more then enough evidence of Revan's exceptional precognitive abilities.

Heck, Revan's reaction rate is instantaneous, as per revelation in his novel.

You guys are feeling insecure and nothing else.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
*picks up a revan book with a quote stating he moved fast*
Instantaneous is the key word here.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
and then you go, "SEE? the quote stated hes FAST and UNPREDICTABLE, therefore he is ubar!!!!!" and you form your entire argument on one single quote.
Recheck my response to member SIDIOUS 66. I provided numerous data to support my point. Heck, I have summed-up the situation in this post in easiest possible manner for you.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
That and you ignore any sources that show characters you hate which perform vastly superior feats than the ones you keep stroking your mushroom tip to((most notably revan and tor characters).
I don't ignore any sources. Vastly superior feats arguments sounds laughable since Revan have some of his own as well.

Every Jedi can have some sort of speciality. For example; Bastilla Shan had Battle Meditation. However, these specialities do not suggest that all are equal in combat. Revan wasn't ordinary Jedi and by all accounts; his command of the Force was extraordinary even by Jedi standards as affirmed by the perceptions of other Force-wielders about him and how he handled extraordinary foes such as Darth Nyriss in combat.

You just need to understand the big picture here. Of-course, Revan isn't explored in every context of Star Wars writing.

Mizukage Yoda
I glimpsed over Legends argument and just want to address one thing. Malgus moving faster than a non-force user can see is in no way shape or form nearly as impressive as Kit Fisto moving so fast Obi-Wan (shortly after AOTC) had trouble following his movements. This same Kit Fisto got blitzed by Palpatine in seconds with Master Windu's help. So yes I think Sidious has the speed and power required to overwhelm Malgus in a few seconds.

S_W_LeGenD

ares834
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Forget that statement about Malgus and concentrate on this revelation.

Malgus finally spotted Master Zallow ten paces away, whirling, spinning, his green blade a blur of precision and speed.

Are we supposed to be, ah, impressed?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by ares834
Are we supposed to be, ah, impressed?
Recheck information provided by me on page.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Recheck information provided by me on page.
Page 2.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Another wannabe judge here.

Revan outsmarted a foe in just a couple of steps who was formidable enough to go toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen in combat. This is more then enough evidence of Revan's exceptional precognitive abilities.

Heck, Revan's reaction rate is instantaneous, as per revelation in his novel.

You guys are feeling insecure and nothing else.


THIS is what Mr tempest is talking about, you just spout a bunch of bullshit.

Which jedi/sith in 25 000 years of sw lore/history has not gone toe to toe with an expert swordsman whether it be an enemy, their sparring partner or their master?

Instantaneous? That someone makes Revan godlike and ubar? Did you know even weakling acolytes and padawans have the same precognitive abilities to deflect blaster bolts as well which also requires instaneous action?

What? You going to argue that these neophytes are amazing swordsman with godlike precognitive abilities?

Only the crappiest and worst sith/jedi can't do a simple blaster bolt deflect, Revan, having these "instantaneous precognitive abilities" doesn't make him more special than other guys, its his actual accomplishments that do.

So yes, your argument is a steaming pile uh shiet like what everyone says it is.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Recheck my response to member SIDIOUS 66. I provided numerous data to support my point. Heck, I have summed-up the situation in this post in easiest possible manner for you.
Yes and you know what? I still think your argument is crap and full of assumptions based on what you want to see and believe.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I don't ignore any sources. Vastly superior feats arguments sounds laughable since Revan have some of his own as well.

You damn right do, like ignoring the scripted scenes in the TFU series which show both starkiller and vader having incredible displays of force feats as well as ignoring plenty of canon from the CW series too claiming its :

"oh me gosh, its so overpowered, lets use teh movies as a basis for realistic powers" and then you proceed to use the TOR trailers which displays the same level as powers as the TFU videos.

Thats why alot of people here don't take you seriously, especially considering your obsession with Revan and co.

Nephthys
Legend, 'blur' is one of the most commonly used words to describe a Jedi. Practically every one has that under their belt. It isn't going to win you any awards here.

Likewise reacting in 'just an instant' or performing 'instantaneous precision adjustments' is hardly impressive. Instant is already an extremely vague term, but the way it was used suggests that it was merely a stock descriptive phrase. Its a very common one.

Finally 'lightning-fast reactions' is obvious hyperbole.

Jedi Mom
btw, does anyone know if the darth vader and the lost command comic series is canon? because my friend says Vader brings down a scysraper with the force.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
btw, does anyone know if the darth vader and the lost command comic series is canon? because my friend says Vader brings down a scysraper with the force.

It is canon but I don't recall the skyscraper part. He does, however, destroy a temple from the inside with the Force.

SIDIOUS 66
Legend, you have not proved Revan and Malgus are faster than the three jedi who accompanied Mace. The only thing you have provided are quotes and feats indicating that they are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists.

The_Tempest has also given you quotes and feats regarding Tiin, Fist and Kolar, indicating that they too are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists. The only difference is: the feats Tempest provided for the three jedi masters are superior to the ones you provided for Revan and Malgus.

Revan may have been one of the greatest fighters of his time, but had he been in the PT era, he might not have stood out as much.

I'm not going to waste my time debating with you, because I honestly do believe you realize that Revan is completely outmatched here.

Dolos
To make this even slightly fair it should be:

Sidious
Dooku
Vader

Against

Vitiate
Revan
Bane

And team one still totally decimates.

Dolos
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I glimpsed over Legends argument and just want to address one thing. Malgus moving faster than a non-force user can see is in no way shape or form nearly as impressive as Kit Fisto moving so fast Obi-Wan (shortly after AOTC) had trouble following his movements. This same Kit Fisto got blitzed by Palpatine in seconds with Master Windu's help. So yes I think Sidious has the speed and power required to overwhelm Malgus in a few seconds.

lol

Sidious would be a phantom in front of Malgus, and that's an understatement.

Only one being can match Sidious in his use of Force Speed, and that's Plagueis. Mace Windu could fight hundreds of times faster than a regular Jedi as stated by Ian in the Making of Star Wars EP III documentary...he demonstrates this use of Force Speed against the Army of Super Droids in the cartoon. Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker (appeared as though wielding 20 lightsabers), Yoda, Sidious, and Plagueis were in a league of their own in regards to Force Speed. But Sidious and Plagueis were at the top.

Sidious was stated by Darth Maul to be moving so fast that a slight twitch of the wrist would kill him...and Maul wielded the versatile double-bladed lightsaber, only surpassed in versatility by dual wielding two single-bladed lightsabers.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by Dolos
To make this even slightly fair it should be:

Sidious
Dooku
Vader

Against

Vitiate
Revan
Bane

And team one still totally decimates.


Vitiate is not an excetional duelist.

lol, I just now noticed I forgot the P in exceptional twice in a row in my previous post.

Really though, there's not much Vitiate can do here. He'd probably just walk into a lightsaber or something.

Dolos
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate is not an excetional duelist.

lol, I just now noticed I forgot the P in exceptional twice in a row in my previous post.

Really though, there's not much Vitiate can do here. He'd probably just walk into a lightsaber or something.

Yet Vitiate still slaugthered Revan while he was regenerating from being burned by Force lightning, as Vitiate disintegrated Revan's Droid companion with a Force blast. (source=Revan novels).

But hey, if he wants to use a lightsaber maybe he'll just make a few dozen copies of himself, then it's 30 to 3. Group 1 is outnumbered 10 to 1, and they still win.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
THIS is what Mr tempest is talking about, you just spout a bunch of bullshit.

Which jedi/sith in 25 000 years of sw lore/history has not gone toe to toe with an expert swordsman whether it be an enemy, their sparring partner or their master?
confused

Sorry! I did not get this statement.

I am talking about Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard. These individuals were capable of going toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen; Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Instantaneous? That someone makes Revan godlike and ubar? Did you know even weakling acolytes and padawans have the same precognitive abilities to deflect blaster bolts as well which also requires instaneous action?
Empty statements will not do. Provide evidence.

And why do so many of these acolytes and padawans get shot during combat, if their reaction rate is instantaneous? (Sometimes by just a lone fire-arms wielder.)

Originally posted by shinkoryu
What? You going to argue that these neophytes are amazing swordsman with godlike precognitive abilities?
No.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Only the crappiest and worst sith/jedi can't do a simple blaster bolt deflect, Revan, having these "instantaneous precognitive abilities" doesn't make him more special than other guys, its his actual accomplishments that do.
As I mentioned earlier, some situations show if a Force-wielder have exceptional precognitive abilities or not;

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
For example; when the enemy fires from close distance and the Jedi has to switch from non-combat state to combat-ready state to save himself/herself. It is the situations like these where exceptional precognition and reaction rate comes in to play and makes difference.

As an example; Coleman Trebor came to fight Count Dooku in Geonosis and his reaction rate wasn't good enough to counter close-range blaster fire from a skilled arms wielder even when he was in combat-ready state. In contrast, Darth Malak (in Leviathan) went from non-combat state to combat-ready state instantaneously when Carth Onasi suddenly opened fire on him from close distance. And skills wise, Carth Onasi was a celebrated Republic officer.

Also, Revan have fought through entire armies; doesn't this tells you anything about his abilities?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So yes, your argument is a steaming pile uh shiet like what everyone says it is.
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes and you know what? I still think your argument is crap and full of assumptions based on what you want to see and believe.
So Revan's performance against the Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard is also not convincing?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You damn right do, like ignoring the scripted scenes in the TFU series which show both starkiller and vader having incredible displays of force feats as well as ignoring plenty of canon from the CW series too claiming its :

"oh me gosh, its so overpowered, lets use teh movies as a basis for realistic powers" and then you proceed to use the TOR trailers which displays the same level as powers as the TFU videos.
I prefer TFU novels over its games for citation purposes. Game-play based interpretations can be subjective; information provided in novels is clear-cut.

TOR Trailers are also not game-play.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thats why alot of people here don't take you seriously, especially considering your obsession with Revan and co.
I have no solution for blind PT/OT worshipping.

Nephthys
Revan did have his crew with him when he fought through the Star Forge. It isn't even as impressive as the Exile fighting through Trayas Academy.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Legend, you have not proved Revan and Malgus are faster than the three jedi who accompanied Mace. The only thing you have provided are quotes and feats indicating that they are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists.
Revan and Malgus have contended with relatively stronger foes and survived; and even defeated relatively stronger foes.

About those 3 Jedi Masters;

Kolar: Sparring matches prove nothing. Jedi don't kill in sparring matches; they simply test their abilities in safest possible manner in them. Also, Mace got better, didn't he?

Yes, Kolar handled Vos. Good. However, I don't recall Vos as being among the Elites of the Jedi Order. Any other person of note whom Kolar handled?

Kolar sounds like PT equivalent of Kavar from TOR at best.

Fisto: He handled Grievous because of his proficiency with Form I of lightsaber combat. However, he sucked in one-on-one confrontation against a skilled duelist such as Assaj. His failure against Sidious doesn't surprises me.

Tin: Apart from verbal fellatos; I don't see any major accomplishments of this Jedi in combat either.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The_Tempest has also given you quotes and feats regarding Tiin, Fist and Kolar, indicating that they too are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists. The only difference is: the feats Tempest provided for the three jedi masters are superior to the ones you provided for Revan and Malgus.
Sorry! I disagree with this. Reasons mentioned above. If we consider combat history; none of these Jedi Masters compare to Revan and Malgus.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Revan may have been one of the greatest fighters of his time, but had he been in the PT era, he might not have stood out as much.
This is funny. The Jedi Order's greatest champion wouldn't have stood out much in other eras.

I don't know about PT but it was hinted in SWTOR Campaign Guide that had Revan been born in Kun's era; he would have been a role model Jedi for that time. And Kun's era includes names like Nomi and Ulic.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not going to waste my time debating with you, because I honestly do believe you realize that Revan is completely outmatched here.
I call it BS.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan did have his crew with him when he fought through the Star Forge. It isn't even as impressive as the Exile fighting through Trayas Academy.
As per Drew's revelation; only 2 companions accompanied Revan on Star Forge. Still Revan did major work as noted by Sith commander stationed on the Star Forge and even Darth Malak himself who eventually acknowledged that Revan had exceeded his expectations.

Bastilla also remarked: "If it weren't for you, Darth Malak would have destroyed the Republic, eliminated the Council, and all but wiped out the Jedi. They owe you everything!"

Also, Revan have fought through armies of even Mandalorians and single-handedly dealt with heavy odds.

A major hint:

Revan had fought plenty of Basilisks during his campaign against the Mandalorians.

This proves that Revan was not just commanding during the Mandalorian Wars but was also fighting in the battles. Heck, Revan killed the Mandalore himself.

Nephthys
We don't even know how many enemies Revan and friends had to fight through. There weren't that many in the game. The fact is that there were also other Jedi fighting through the SF, and who made it to Malak. To say that Revan fought through an entire army by himself is ludicrous. He had plenty of help.

Because Revan beat Malak and stopped the Star Forge, not because he fought through armies.

Where do you get single-handed from that? Revan commanded huge armies, theres nothing indicating that he ever fought by himself outside of specific duels as you mentioned.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
We don't even know how many enemies Revan and friends had to fight through. There weren't that many in the game. The fact is that there were also other Jedi fighting through the SF, and who made it to Malak. To say that Revan fought through an entire army by himself is ludicrous. He had plenty of help.
Good point. Yes. However, Revan's advances were being particularly monitored or so it seems.

Sith Commander particularly reported to Malak that Revan destroyed a whole army of Star Forge's battle droids. After this, Malak ordered the Sith Commander to send a huge chunk of Sith forces towards Revan.

Of-course, Star Forge was a huge structure and it would have been impossible for a single person to clear all of it in such a limited span of time. So it makes sense that other Jedi were sent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Revan beat Malak and stopped the Star Forge, not because he fought through armies.
Well, the statement can be interpreted in different ways but the leading individual was/is Revan.

Revan's struggle against the Sith Empire began from the events of Endar Spire and the whole journey was filled with tough challenges.

As once hinted in the official data bank:

The quest for the Star Forge, which spanned worlds, kept Revan and Bastila working side-by-side, and thrust Bastila into difficult and challenging roles as a Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Where do you get single-handed from that? Revan commanded huge armies, theres nothing indicating that he ever fought by himself outside of specific duels as you mentioned.
Recheck the statement;

Revan had fought plenty of Basilisks during his campaign against the Mandalorians.

The whole statement in the novel suggests fighting on the ground and no role of commanding.

In addition, their are canonical images of Revan engaged in combat during Mandalorian Wars. This makes sense since he was visiting and exploring planets during this time.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Dolos
Yet Vitiate still slaugthered Revan while he was regenerating from being burned by Force lightning, as Vitiate disintegrated Revan's Droid companion with a Force blast. (source=Revan novels).

But hey, if he wants to use a lightsaber maybe he'll just make a few dozen copies of himself, then it's 30 to 3. Group 1 is outnumbered 10 to 1, and they still win.
Easy for you to say.

Vitiate is so damn powerful that he have handled several powerful adversaries simultaneously and prevailed, in different eras. Check Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia.

He can eliminate the likes of Vader and Dooku himself.

ares834
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-laugh.gif

Nephthys
He could imo.

ares834
You think he could defeat Vader and Dooku at the same time?!

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by ares834
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-laugh.gif
Let me guess; you are clueless about Sith Emperor's capabilities.

Here is just ONE example:

bq5X3F3g69c

Sith Emperor broke the entire Jedi Strike Team easily.

Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia contains detailed information about the Sith Emperor. Buy it and read it. Very informative.

ares834
Why thank you for posting a video I have seen several times already. Seeing once again that Vitiate is capable of defeating several relevantly featless Jedi is great evidence that Vader and Dooku are no match for the Emperor. After all, it's not like they haven't done similar things either!

And would you mind giving me a page number for these supposedly informative pages about Vitiate's powers? I've breezed through it before but can't recall anything suggesting he could defeat both Sith Lords in combat.

Nephthys
Originally posted by ares834
You think he could defeat Vader and Dooku at the same time?!

Yes. He has major mind-hax.

ares834
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. He has major mind-hax.

I'll admit, he could potentially mind **** them both. However, I've also seen evidence that his TP powers are due to prep and rituals... So, I dunno.

Nephthys
He seemed fine to attack Revan with it when he attacked him without any prep.

S_W_LeGenD

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
confused

Sorry! I did not get this statement.

I am talking about Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard. These individuals were capable of going toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen; Jedi and Sith.
ok
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Empty statements will not do. Provide evidence. This is what you exactly do every single time.

Example, quoting sources like
"Mr M jumps in the air, spins his lightsaber with great velocity and has quick reflexes"

And then your argument would be like "SEE the quote says this and that, therefore he is GOD!11!!1"

Our point is, you make extreme assumptions based on a single quote.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And why do so many of these acolytes and padawans get shot during combat, if their reaction rate is instantaneous? (Sometimes by just a lone fire-arms wielder.)


You're not really that much of an intelligent guy are you? You don't get my point either do you?

Im simply stating that being stated to have "instantaneous reaction" isn't something special, nor should it be used in an argument to uplift one characters status especially when the majority of characters in the mythos has demonstrated the said ability which is not only limited to the powerhouses but even the "lower ranked" characters.





Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

As I mentioned earlier, some situations show if a Force-wielder have exceptional precognitive abilities or not;
But thats it, what you basically do, is find a quote that states so and so doing so, and then make broad assumptions and pass it off as fact.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, Revan have fought through entire armies; doesn't this tells you anything about his abilities?
No it doesn't, because i actually look at the facts. Yes, Revan is a strong character and an exceptional duelist. But i don't look at exaggerations from a devoted fanboy with raging hormones.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So Revan's performance against the Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard is also not convincing?
You don't get the point, its your argument, its not about if Revan is imrpessive or not.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I prefer TFU novels over its games for citation purposes. Game-play based interpretations can be subjective; information provided in novels is clear-cut.
Ergo, you ignore canon.

First off, you've never used the novels for "citation purposes" but ignored that entirely as well.

Secondly, you always use the comics, which is far less detailed that both the cutscenes and novels which makes the characters feats look more diminished.

Thirdly, according to the directors, the "Scripted scenes" ARE actually what happens in action AND are canon. Its simply an interactive cutscene, much like the quick time events in Heavy Rain.

Last but not least, you actually at one point stated how you would ignore the TFU series cut scenes and interactive cut scenes because of how "overpowered" it is, and then claim you want to use the feats in the movies as a "benchmark" because it is more "realistic",and right after that you use TOR trailers which display almost, or in some cases, the same level of "overpowerness" as the ones shown in TFU 1 and 2, to back your already poorly constructed "arguments"

"legend", you are not only a lousy and useless debater, but at the same time, you're an unbelievably annoying hypocrite, you never actually get someones point because you're so incredibly narrow minded, when someone points out a hole in your argument, instead of analyzing it, you actually come up with even more rubbish arguments instead of realizing what the other poster is trying to tell you.

This only proves that you are not a very smart person, someone who only does things methodically without logic, analysis or intelligence and an outright idiot.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I have no solution for blind PT/OT worshipping. Calling other people "PT/OT worshippers" does not and will not change the fact that you are KMC's worse debater, nor does it change the fact that you frequently masturbate to your favourite fictional character aka Lord Revan.

Btw is that tiny statue of Revan still trapped between uranus? I suggest to pull it out and then start using whatever is left of your decaying brain matter.

The_Tempest
lol bless you, stranger

Originally posted by Nephthys
He seemed fine to attack Revan with it when he attacked him without any prep.

I submit to you that Dooku and especially Vader are powerful enough to interrupt any attempt by Vitiate to subdue them. Once the "mindhax" is out of the equation, he's fvcked.

shinkoryu

The_Tempest
laughing out loud

Nicely done. After thoroughly reaming him, I suggest you ignore him henceforth. That is the most fitting and deliciously cruel punishment of all: having his arguments ignored as if they weren't even there....

shinkoryu
Originally posted by The_Tempest
laughing out loud

Nicely done. After thoroughly reaming him, I suggest you ignore him henceforth. That is the most fitting and deliciously cruel punishment of all: having his arguments ignored as if they weren't even there....

Probably true mate, you can't argue with a butthole farting out stink gas, thats basically what this doodoo head is.

He's just an ass crack farting everytime he tries to argue. All i can "hear" is "poot poot poot, proat proat proat ", and when he gets really enraged and tries to bring out more bs "arguments", he actually sprays his poo all over the place.

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
"legend", you are not only a lousy and useless debater, but at the same time, you're an unbelievably annoying hypocrite, you never actually get someones point because you're so incredibly narrow minded, when someone points out a hole in your argument, instead of analyzing it, you actually come up with even more rubbish arguments instead of realizing what the other poster is trying to tell you.
No. Some members misunderstand me and are probably not 'used to' my debating style.

Point is that many PT/OT fans are unwilling to work with me to reach a middle-ground. They will do anything to put down the elites of TOR era lore without doing sufficient homework themselves. This is a sign of bias and it is evident from their responses.

I do like PT/OT lore and you will be surprised that Yoda, Anakin, Maul, Sidious and Dooku are one of my favorite characters in Star Wars. However, I am not in to needless hype either.

Fact is that EU have changed a lot about how many Star Wars fans may interpret character rankings. EU have overpowered Force-wielders and all the aforementioned PT/OT characters compete with other EU characters in terms of feats and accomplishments on the basis of EU materials and not movies. Unfortunately, some characters are much more well-defined then others. Due to missing bits; debaters are forced to rely on shortest possible hints to make a portrayal of a not so well-defined character.

Also, I can judge the intentions of a debater early on. If he/she is simply going to put down all of the information that I provided without appreciating the beauty of it or attempt to learn about it or work with me; then he/she is not worthy of being appreciated by me or I wouldn't bother to explain things to her in the level of detail that I may otherwise would want to.

Just consider your case; your responding to my posts so this gives me motive to explain my points better then I would early on. This is how we can reach a middle-ground in debates. I hope that we do reach on something. Otherwise, tough.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
This only proves that you are not a very smart person, someone who only does things methodically without logic, analysis or intelligence and an outright idiot.
I disgree. I debate Star Wars for fun and not for writing thesis. You don't know about my intellect in the subjects where I really do specialize in.

I advice you to debate for fun as well but do take points of others seriously. You can do this and you will be a better debater then many in this manner. The real quality of a great debater is that he can work with any kind of debater. Unfortunately, many simply start flaming others before a debate even reaches this point. This not just spoils the debating scene but paves way for resentments and useless rivalries.

I cannot work with (The_Tempest) with the kind of attitude he shows towards me.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Calling other people "PT/OT worshippers" does not and will not change the fact that you are KMC's worse debater, nor does it change the fact that you frequently masturbate to your favourite fictional character aka Lord Revan.
And you qualify to make this assumption in what manner?

You won't examples of debaters with whom you cannot even have a debate?

One is in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=562952&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Btw is that tiny statue of Revan still trapped between uranus? I suggest to pull it out and then start using whatever is left of your decaying brain matter.
Sorry. I strongly advice you to refrain from these kinds of remarks. I have no beef with you and I want to keep it this way. However, my tolerance have limits.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
lol bless you, stranger



I submit to you that Dooku and especially Vader are powerful enough to interrupt any attempt by Vitiate to subdue them. Once the "mindhax" is out of the equation, he's fvcked.

Not really. He could still overwhelm them with Force Lightning. Plus he could buy himself time to use his mental domination by using shadow clone no jutsu to distract them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Most notable feat:

His greatest achievement as a Jedi to date was when he dueled Sith Lord Darth Sajar to a draw–and then convinced the enemy to abandon the path of darkness and train as a Jedi. (Codex entry)

Darth Sajar was a DARK COUNCIL member. Yes, you heard this correct. Never in history have any Jedi managed to convert a DARK COUNCIL member to light.

Thanks to this effort of Tol Braga; the Jedi came to know about the Children of the Emperor and prepared against this threat.

You should probably mention that he converted Sajar after several days of constant fighting.

The_Tempest
lolno

They have their lightsabers, which was more than sufficient to keep Revan from harm until the fool tried to take it on barehanded.



With preparation and on a dark side nexus? Perhaps. But as we saw from the confrontation with the Jedi Knight, those clones are woefully inadequate. Vader and Dooku are far too powerful for Vitiate to take on, especially together, without preparation and a favorable setting.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. He could still overwhelm them with Force Lightning. Plus he could buy himself time to use his mental domination by using shadow clone no jutsu to distract them.
Absolutely. Thank you.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Big deal, its clear to me you haven't actually played the game.

I have an Imperial Agent character(a SEXY female pureblood sith agent), and guess who was i able to gun down during a fight(a tough fight).

DARTH JADUS. Who is he? A DARK COUNCIL member. Not just any DARK COUNCIL member, but the most powerful DARK COUNCIL member whose powers have been stated to be "Second to none, other than the emperor".

A powerful Sith lord that has been shown to Hold a huge part of a sith warship together with his powers after being blown up to keep himself alive . Shown to be able to bend space and time by teleporting across the room before the IA's companion Kaliyo , could even pull the trigger and choke her at the same time.

And what happens? He gets shot down by the Imperial Agent, not easily but he was beaten by a non force user.

Jadus, unlike "darth sajar", isn't some feat less wonder.

So yes, you yet again prove my point about how you make broad assumptions based on a few "empty quotes"(your very own words).
Thanks for sharing this information.

Well, it reveals that how dangerous even (non) Force-sensitives can be.

As an example;

Mandalore the Ultimate once knocked out Malak with a single blow; shocking. Malak was young and not so experienced during this time but still he was no slouch as he easily defeated another notable Mandalorian of his time, Demagol, later on (a Force-sensitive Mandalorian; not trained in the ways of Force but very skilled combatant nonetheless) and would have killed Demagol, if his friends had not stopped him. This is why I consider Revan's victory over Mandalore the Ultimate in single combat as a big thing.

Also,

Mandalore the Preserver (Canderous Ordo) helped Meetra against Darth Nihilus.

So it is possible for highly skilled (non) Force-sensitives to change the game sometimes.

In addition,

I recall that Sidious died at the hands of Han Solo and a not so popular Jedi.

In the nutshell shit happens.

--------------

Your most recent post about me is very insulting. Sorry. I cannot tolerate this. Reported

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
lolno

They have their lightsabers, which was more than sufficient to keep Revan from harm until the fool tried to take it on barehanded.

So what?

Since when did Revan performing something indicate that Dooku and Vader could. Let me remind you that Revan was able to casually contain Nyriss' Force Lightning which had the power to instantly incinerate her even after tearing through her Force Shields. That is some of the most powerful Force Lightning in the mythos. Were it not for Vitiate it would be a strong contender for the most powerful display of Force Lightning period. As it is, Vitiates own lightning is infinitely superior to hers. Hyperbole granted, yet it is clear that Vitiates lightning is much more powerful than hers. This grants him, imo, the most potent Force Lightning in all of Star Wars.

I sincerely doubt these two can comfortably stand up to that.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
With preparation and on a dark side nexus? Perhaps. But as we saw from the confrontation with the Jedi Knight, those clones are woefully inadequate. Vader and Dooku are far too powerful for Vitiate to take on, especially together, without preparation and a favorable setting.

Inadequate as a threat yes. But as a simple distraction? No. Especially since I doubt Vader or Dooku are too familiar with this esoteric technique or the Emperor's penchant for domination. I see no reason why the clones wouldn't grant him the few seconds he needs to enslave them.

The_Tempest
Should we report each other for every insult exchanged? If so, I believe all three of us can share a ban.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
So what?

Since when did Revan performing something indicate that Dooku and Vader could. Let me remind you that Revan was able to casually contain Nyriss' Force Lightning which had the power to instantly incinerate her even after tearing through her Force Shields. That is some of the most powerful Force Lightning in the mythos. Were it not for Vitiate it would be a strong contender for the most powerful display of Force Lightning period. As it is, Vitiates own lightning is infinitely superior to hers. Hyperbole granted, yet it is clear that Vitiates lightning is much more powerful than hers. This grants him, imo, the most potent Force Lightning in all of Star Wars.

Reread my post, sweetheart. I never said Vader or Dooku could withstand Vitiate's lightning barehanded, I said Revan's lightsaber was sufficient to repulse Vitiate's attacks until he retardedly tried to manhandle it. As long as they have their blades, they'll be just fine.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Inadequate as a threat yes. But as a simple distraction? No. Especially since I doubt Vader or Dooku are too familiar with this esoteric technique or the Emperor's penchant for domination. I see no reason why the clones wouldn't grant him the few seconds he needs to enslave them.

Given that Revan sensed the Emperor's intrusion into his mind before the domination occurred, this is irrelevant. Vader and Dooku are among the most powerful Force users in galactic history, it is reasonable to conclude that they would be able to sense Vitiate's psychic overtures and respond accordingly. As far as the clones are concerned, even if I were to concede that they would serve as distractions (unlikely, didn't the droid take them out? laughing out loud ), there is no evidence to suggest Vitiate can summon them without preparation and favorable circumstances.

Dooku and Vader, meanwhile, have more powerful feats by far without such amplifiers. Vitiate is curbstomped under most situations.

Nephthys
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Big deal, its clear to me you haven't actually played the game.

I have an Imperial Agent character(a SEXY female pureblood sith agent), and guess who was i able to gun down during a fight(a tough fight).

DARTH JADUS. Who is he? A DARK COUNCIL member. Not just any DARK COUNCIL member, but the most powerful DARK COUNCIL member whose powers have been stated to be "Second to none, other than the emperor".

A powerful Sith lord that has been shown to Hold a huge part of a sith warship together with his powers after being blown up to keep himself alive . Shown to be able to bend space and time by teleporting across the room before the IA's companion Kaliyo , could even pull the trigger and choke her at the same time.

And what happens? He gets shot down by the Imperial Agent, not easily but he was beaten by a non force user.

Jadus, unlike "darth sajar", isn't some feat less wonder.

So yes, you yet again prove my point about how you make broad assumptions based on a few "empty quotes"(your very own words).

A minor point, but it is entirely possible to not fight Jadus at all via outsmarting him or joining him. I wouldn't say that this can be used as canonical evidence yet.

The_Tempest
I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Remember, Malgus struggled immensely with a single, featless trooper (Jace Malcom, innit?) during his invasion of Alderaan.

S_W_LeGenD

The_Tempest
LeGenD, do Nephthys a favor and stop taking his side. You damage your agenda far more than you service it.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Should we report each other for every insult exchanged? If so, I believe all three of us can share a ban.
I didn't report you.

I reported this:

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Probably true mate, you can't argue with a butthole farting out stink gas, thats basically what this doodoo head is.

He's just an ass crack farting everytime he tries to argue. All i can "hear" is "poot poot poot, proat proat proat ", and when he gets really enraged and tries to bring out more bs "arguments", he actually sprays his poo all over the place.

You see how insulting this is?

I was trying to have a reasonable debate with him. Even did so in may last 3 responses to him. However, he stepped-over-the-line here.

I may use strong words sometimes but I never insult any member to this level.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I didn't report you.

I'm aware.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I do not insult any member to this level.

Irrelevant. 'Til the time comes that your posts are completely free of jabs, insults, and other manner of hurtful remarks, you really have no room to talk, do you? If I were shinkoryu or whatever his name is, I'd spam the report button in retaliation.

Nephthys
Edit: Shinkoryu took it too far. He should tone it down.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Reread my post, sweetheart. I never said Vader or Dooku could withstand Vitiate's lightning barehanded, I said Revan's lightsaber was sufficient to repulse Vitiate's attacks until he retardedly tried to manhandle it. As long as they have their blades, they'll be just fine.

No. Sidious' inferior Force Lightning was almost enough to overwhelm Mace Windu who had the benefit of Vaapad, possessed by neither Vader or Dooku. Merely having a lightsaber does not guarantee one the ability to block any lightning. Revan blocking Vitiates lightning with his lightsaber says nothing about the weakness of Vitaites lightning nor its ability to be blocked as much as it does about Revans exceptional command of Tutaminis

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Given that Revan sensed the Emperor's intrusion into his mind before the domination occurred, this is irrelevant. Vader and Dooku are among the most powerful Force users in galactic history, it is reasonable to conclude that they would be able to sense Vitiate's psychic overtures and respond accordingly. As far as the clones are concerned, even if I were to concede that they would serve as distractions (unlikely, didn't the droid take them out? laughing out loud ), there is no evidence to suggest Vitiate can summon them without preparation and favorable circumstances.

Dooku and Vader, meanwhile, have more powerful feats by far without such amplifiers. Vitiate is curbstomped under most situations.

Revan was fully prepared for Vitiates attempt and knew how to respond to it. Vader and Dooku do not and would likely attempt to resist the intrusion rather than attack him directly, especially while dealing with shadow clones. And I remind you that Vitiate has huge resistance to TK anyway, so that could also give him time to dominate them. I remind you that Revan was initially dominated. If it was anything like the attempted that we saw, he would have noticed Vitiates attempt that time too, and yet he was still enslaved.

Vitiate had no preparation, as he previously attacked the Knight with Lightning and then immediately summoned them afterwards. As for T7 stunning one, he took it by surprise and Astromech droids can be great fighters i.e. T3 taking down 3 HK-50 droids single-handed.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Irrelevant. 'Til the time comes that your posts are completely free of jabs, insults, and other manner of hurtful remarks, you really have no room to talk, do you? If I were shinkoryu or whatever his name is, I'd spam the report button in retaliation.
Why are you so concerned about his post and how I reacted to it?

I tolerate lot more then people normally do. I have tolerated all your remarks about me and your attempts to shame and defame me.

A little bit of insult doesn't matters to me. However, their a limit to any individual's tolerance.

Debate in decent manner and do not get reported.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
No. Sidious' inferior Force Lightning was almost enough to overwhelm Mace Windu who had the benefit of Vaapad, possessed by neither Vader or Dooku. Merely having a lightsaber does not guarantee one the ability to block any lightning. Revan blocking Vitiates lightning with his lightsaber says nothing about the weakness of Vitaites lightning nor its ability to be blocked as much as it does about Revans exceptional command of Tutaminis

Nah, it says that Vitiate's lightning is easily intercepted and addressed by a lightsaber and unless one is foolish enough to try to take it on barehanded. Given that Dooku and Vader are each armed with a lightsaber and are generally not retarded, they'll be just fine.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan was fully prepared for Vitiates attempt and knew how to respond to it. Vader and Dooku do not and would likely attempt to resist the intrusion rather than attack him directly, especially while dealing with shadow clones.

Well, cool, since we're scripting the fight: I say Dooku and Vader begin the fight by unleashing their most powerful attacks and ragdoll Vitiate effortlessly with a barrage of telekinesis and Force lightning.

The shadow clones are, as I said, the very definition of a non-factor. I'm pretty sure an astromech one-shotted it. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Nephthys
I remind you that Revan was initially dominated. If it was anything like the attempted that we saw, he would have noticed Vitiates attempt that time too, and yet he was still enslaved.

Well, as you say, since when does Revan doing something mean that Vader and Dooku would?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate had no preparation, as he previously attacked the Knight with Lightning and then immediately summoned them afterwards. as for T7 stunning one, he took it by surprise and Astromech droids can be great fighters i.e. T3 taking down 3 HK-50 droids single-handed.

They were also, again, on an unusually potent dark side nexus.

Unless astromechs are comparable to Sith Lords (and I suppose they may be, given TOR's lackluster pedigree of dark side users), it's irrelevant.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why are you so concerned about his post and how I reacted to it?

I tolerate lot more then people normally do. I have tolerated all your remarks about me and your attempts to shame and defame me.

A little bit of insult doesn't matters to me. However, their a limit to any individual's tolerance.

Debate in decent manner and do not get reported.

Because you're a hypocrite of the highest order, which further compounds your inability to debate cogently?

Nephthys
Hmm, quite a drop in quality here. Whats up, getting tired already?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, it says that Vitiate's lightning is easily intercepted and addressed by a lightsaber and unless one is foolish enough to try to take it on barehanded. Given that Dooku and Vader are each armed with a lightsaber and are generally not retarded, they'll be just fine.

'No, I'm right, **** you'

Great argument. thumb up

I'm going to let you try that again when you feel like putting your big boy shorts back on. Get back to me when you're ready, champ. wink

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well, cool, since we're scripting the fight: I say Dooku and Vader begin the fight by unleashing their most powerful attacks and ragdoll Vitiate effortlessly with a barrage of telekinesis and Force lightning.

The shadow clones are, as I said, the very definition of a non-factor. I'm pretty sure an astromech one-shotted it. laughing out loud

I'm not scripting, merely pointing out that neither of the two know how to respond to the mental assualt like Revan did. You're the one who is saying taht they will immediately know to attack Vitiate with no evidence. If anyones scripting, its you. I'm not saying that they will definitely fail to respond appropriately, simply suggesting that its likely and offering arguments as to why.

No, it didn't.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well, as you say, since when does Revan doing something mean that Vader and Dooku would?

I was merely providing evidence for what happens when an opponent is unprepared to defend against Vitiates assault. Just adding some weight to my argument.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
They were also, again, on an unusually potent dark side nexus.

Unless astromechs are comparable to Sith Lords (and I suppose they may be, given TOR's lackluster pedigree of dark side users), it's irrelevant.

And Vitiate was weakened.

I never said that they were. Just pointing out that saying 'lolastromech' is a ignorant argument. Also, as I said, he took it by surprise.

The_Tempest
No, just exuding the least amount of energy needed to crush your argument. Which, for you, means I could very well be asleep. laughing out loud



Sorry, bro. Revan dealt with Vitiate's lightning casually via lightsaber, there's no reason to conclude it would be any different for Dooku or Vader.



Proof?



Nah, bro. I'm saying Vitiate's mental attacks take time and effort (per Revan) and that each Sith Lord is more than capable of ragdolling him before it succeeds.



It tazed the shit right out of him. Makes you wonder what Force lightning from Dooku might do, but then T3 is probably comparable, right? laughing out loud



As I explained to you, Vitiate's attack takes time and energy from him to initiate. Given that they are powerful and trained Force users, they have the means to detect the attack and respond in kind.



Proof?

Regardless, he had a colossal home turf advantage due to the energies of Dromund Kaas and the temple itself.



Astromechs are several orders of magnitude beneath the likes of Vader and Dooku, who would be able to dispose of the clones with utterly laughable ease.

Try again, bro.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because you're a hypocrite of the highest order, which further compounds your inability to debate cogently?
No, you are.

You are defending an extreme form of insult. Shame on you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sorry, bro. Revan dealt with Vitiate's lightning casually via lightsaber, there's no reason to conclude it would be any different for Dooku or Vader.
Lightsaber based defence can work against his concentrated bursts of Force Lightning; not the FLS.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof?
Have Vader and Dooku ever experienced such kind of mental bombardment which can crush wills and overload senses?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, bro. I'm saying Vitiate's mental attacks take time and effort (per Revan)
Sorry. Your assumption is misplaced.

"We underestimated his power. When we confronted him, he didn't even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills."

Vitiate broke Revan and Malak simultaneously and he did so in such a speed that both could do nothing. And both Revan and Malak were, by this time, highly experienced and celebrated warriors.

--------------------

Point is that Vitiate's mental powers are not just extremely effective but they also work quickly and this is why so many unsuspecting individuals have fallen in to his trap in history.

The second time when Revan confronted the Sith Emperor, he was fully prepared for his mental bombardment but he still had to step out of normacly in terms of using the Force to stop the Sith Emperor from mind-dominating him again.

So preventing Vitiate from mind-dominating during combat situations isn't so easy as it sounds. Heck, any unsuspecting indvidual will be broke before he/she would have the opportunity to realize what has happened to him/her.

Do not underestimate Vitiate without logical basis. You clearly underestimate every TOR era character without logical basis.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
and that each Sith Lord is more than capable of ragdolling him before it succeeds.
LOL! Not even Hero of Tython could manage to do this and he was immensely powerful.

And not to forget that Vitiate collapsed the entire structure after his Voice was struct down. Vitiate was far more powerful then you give him credit. However, I am not surprised by your statements.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It tazed the shit right out of him. Makes you wonder what Force lightning from Dooku might do, but then T3 is probably comparable, right? laughing out loud
T3 took advantage when Vitiate was preoccupied with Revan. T3's attack came as a surprise and Vitiate was bombarded with fire/flames.

Through the haze of indescribable pain, he saw T3-M4 rushing in to help him. The droid let loose with his flamethrower, bathing the Emperor in fire. At the last instant the Emperor cocooned himself in the Force to save himself from being incinerated, breaking his focus on Revan.

&

Almost too weak to move, Revan managed to raise his head just in time to see the Emperor turn on the brave little astromech. A tremor rippled through the air as the Emperor unleashed the full power of the Force against the defenseless droid.

No sign of Sith Emperor getting tazed as you put.

Also, Dooku's Force Lightning will do jack. Sith Emperor have fought with lot of Sith in his life-time to worry about this.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As I explained to you, Vitiate's attack takes time and energy from him to initiate.
Not much.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Given that they are powerful and trained Force users, they have the means to detect the attack and respond in kind.
Many of the individuals that Vitiate have broken were powerful and trained Force-users. Your point is moot.

The kind of mental/telepathic powers Vitiate demonstrated, aren't common. This is why almost everybody falls in to his trap after his assault.

Jedi and Sith do know about mind tricks but the Vitiate took these abilities to a whole new level.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof?
Because Sith Emperor is confronted during his vulnerable moment. Satele Shan points this out before the mission starts.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Regardless, he had a colossal home turf advantage due to the energies of Dromund Kaas and the temple itself.
Doesn't matters as he was interrupted while performing a Super-Ritual. This is how he became vulnerable.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Astromechs are several orders of magnitude beneath the likes of Vader and Dooku, who would be able to dispose of the clones with utterly laughable ease.
Key term is "taking advantage of the situation." In this kind of scenario, power becomes irrelevant.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Try again, bro.
You need to open your mind instead.

Dolos
@Tempest.

My God, you're talking about a random Jedi Knight who fought Vitiate at 1/100th of his normal power, not Revan.

Revan was utterly defeated, unweakened Vitiate's Force lightning burned Revan alive, and Vitiate disintegrated his droid companion with telekinesis.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, just exuding the least amount of energy needed to crush your argument. Which, for you, means I could very well be asleep. laughing out loud

Ah. I was starting to think that Legend was grinding you down a bit. I can see now how silly it was of me to think you could sink any lower, intellectually.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sorry, bro. Revan dealt with Vitiate's lightning casually via lightsaber, there's no reason to conclude it would be any different for Dooku or Vader.

Again, Revan being able to do something does not mean that Dooku and Vader can. Revan has demonstrated exemplary skill at Tutaminis in that he dealt with Nyriss' Lightning with his bare hands. Nyriss' lightning is comparable and arguably superior to Sidious' own lightning. Do you think that Dooku and Vader would block Sidious' lightning when Windu struggled even with the advantage of Vaapad?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof?

I don't need to prove an absence of knowledge. smile

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, bro. I'm saying Vitiate's mental attacks take time and effort (per Revan) and that each Sith Lord is more than capable of ragdolling him before it succeeds.

I doubt that. Revan also showed us that Vitiate grants his followers great ragdoll resistance innately. Logically Vitiate would also possess this resistance, in greater quantities since he is not being granted it by proxy and he is not having to waste energy granting it to his guards who would not be present in a duel.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It tazed the shit right out of him. Makes you wonder what Force lightning from Dooku might do, but then T3 is probably comparable, right? laughing out loud

Yes, from behind. As he was running past it. And Dooku would still need to waste time destroying it with FLightning, so nyeh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As I explained to you, Vitiate's attack takes time and energy from him to initiate. Given that they are powerful and trained Force users, they have the means to detect the attack and respond in kind.

Lol. Yes, and Revan and Malak certainly weren't powerful and trained Force Users. It wasn't like they were taught by a telepathic Sith Lord or anything. Twice.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof?

'You've learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation. Striking at him now is your best chance to defeat him once and for all.'

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Regardless, he had a colossal home turf advantage due to the energies of Dromund Kaas and the temple itself.

And he was tsill weakened. Dude stumbled while walking down the stairs, its obvious he wasn't 100%

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Astromechs are several orders of magnitude beneath the likes of Vader and Dooku, who would be able to dispose of the clones with utterly laughable ease.

Try again, bro.

T7 stunned it for ****s sake. He didn't curbstomp anything. It took the Knight several seconds to take out 3 clones, it would take Vader and Dooku a few seconds to take them out as well. Enough time to mindfvck them.

And as I said, battle-hardened astromechs are not that weak. Even an early model HK unit was able to put up a challenging fight to Jareal, who was easily Jedi level and sparred evenly with Malak. T3-M4 beat 3 of the most advanced kinds.

Dolos
Sidious wielded the second strongest Force lightning in the Mythos.

Stronger than Vitiate's by miles.

The only being who wielded superior Force lightning was Son...and Vader with the Kaibuur Crystal.

Sidious' Force lightning lit up the surface of an entire planet.

Nephthys
Whaaaaaaat? Bulllspit. When did it do that?

Plus, that would be really inefficient in terms of power. Al the energy would be going to light instead of heat.

Either way, no, Vitiates still no1.

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
Whaaaaaaat? Bulllspit. When did it do that?

Plus, that would be really inefficient in terms of power. Al the energy would be going to light instead of heat.

Either way, no, Vitiates still no1.

Go to the Palpatine page on Wookieepedia, and read Powers and Abilities - Force Powers.

Vitiate is #3, behind Plagueis at second place. Vitiate vaporized Revan's Droid, Plagueis completely disintegrated everything in his path...Plagueis and Sidious' Grand Experiment (Which resulted in Anakin's conception) was beyond any ritual (including Nathema) that Vitiate ever performed in terms of Sith Alchemy.

Although it may not be certain when Sidious killed his drunken master, by Dark Empire Sidious obviously surpassed his master.

Nephthys
Wookieepedia isn't a credible source. It has the source listed as a video game. That's pretty iffy. It could just be a gamplay power.

I'm not even sure if that game/expansion is canon. A third force arising to fight the Rebels and Empire?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious wielded the second strongest Force lightning in the Mythos.
No. He is among the highly proficient practitioners of Force Lightning but not second.

Originally posted by Dolos
Stronger than Vitiate's by miles.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/8558/@AV-SHOCK-1-120070490831.gif

Originally posted by Dolos
The only being who wielded superior Force lightning was Son...and Vader with the Kaibuur Crystal.
Any example?

As far as example of Vader is concerned, that crystal allowed him to use Force Lightning. But nothing indicates that it was the most lethal burst of Force Lightning ever.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious' Force lightning lit up the surface of an entire planet.
When?

Dolos
Sidious rarely used it to it's full lethality. He charred victims instantly, but that use of Force lightning is equaled by Bane - and surpassed by Plagueis. However in Empire's End Palpatine's lightning killed a Jedi instantly, and mortally injured a Jedi master, and Palpatine was dying at that point. This use of Force lightning could easily be compared to Vitiate's use in overpowering a squad of Jedi in the TOR MMORPG.

As far as Son's lethality, he incapacitated Father with it, a God-like being invulnerable to lightsaber attacks when using the Force.

Nephthys
Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption apparently? I tried searching through a walkthrough but it was so boring I gave up. That game barely even has cutscenes. The Emperor only appears in galaxy conquest anyway, which certainly isn't canon.

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption apparently? I tried searching through a walkthrough but it was so boring I gave up. That game barely even has cutscenes. The Emperor only appears in galaxy conquest anyway, which certainly isn't canon.

How is it not canon?

Because it's a video game?

TFU is a video game, TOR is a video game.

And that's another thing, the combustion of his Force lightning killed Galen Marek. Galen Marek's clone demonstrated the most lethal Force lightning in the mythos, which vaporized everything and everyone around him, yet it paled in comparison to the Emperor's.

Nephthys
It isn't a story-mode. You know in strategy games when you create a campaign and pick how many computer teams you're fighting, what race you are etc etc? That. It's basically single-player multiplayer.

Haha, what? No it didn't, Marek committed suicide and blew himself up.

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't a story-mode. You know in strategy games when you create a campaign and pick how many computer teams you're fighting, what race you are etc etc? That. It's basically single-player multiplayer.

Haha, what? No it didn't, Marek committed suicide and blew himself up.

How do you know it wasn't in the story mode? How would that scene just be in a random campaign?

He didn't blow himself up, it was a blast of telekinesis, like Force repulse. He couldn't use Force wave like Yoda, which was why he had to get up close to use Force repulse effectively, it still only caused the Emperor's lightning to burst without harming the Emperor who must have shielded himself.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious rarely used it to it's full lethality.
I think that he blasted Windu with his full power. After Windu was sent out of the window, he was in relief.

Heck, I think that he also blasted Yoda with his full power which resulted in a blast when Yoda attempted to deflect it.

Originally posted by Dolos
He charred victims instantly, but that use of Force lightning is equaled by Bane - and surpassed by Plagueis.
Nyriss could reduce her victims to smoking husks easily with her Force Lightning. She would have done the same to Scourge and Meetra simultaneously, if Revan had not stopped her.

And Vitiate was stated to be far more proficient in this power then even Nyriss.

Originally posted by Dolos
As far as Son's lethality, he incapacitated Father with it, a God-like being invulnerable to lightsaber attacks when using the Force.
I will watch the Mortis episode to ascertain this. But let us not discuss these so-called immortals here. So-called because these immortals were not truly immortals as Abeloth was just like them and yet she wasn't invincible.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Dolos
How do you know it wasn't in the story mode? How would that scene just be in a random campaign?

He didn't blow himself up, it was a blast of telekinesis, like Force repulse. He couldn't use Force wave like Yoda, which was why he had to get up close to use Force repulse effectively, it still only cause the Emperor's lightning to burst without harming the Emperor who must have shielded himself.

Maybe it isn't. Maybe its complete bullshit that someone wrote on Wookieepedia. Which is why Wookieepedia isn't a credible source of information.

He suicided. And yes, without using force lightning. Galens lightning wasn't all that great. Vitiates was way more powerful.

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe it isn't. Maybe its complete bullshit that someone wrote on Wookieepedia. Which is why Wookieepedia isn't a credible source of information.

I highly doubt they pulled that out of their ass and gave a random video game as a source. Why the hell would the writer of the article do that. Chances are it's a part of the game. I have yet to find something made up on a page. They add feats from video games, and even state when it's from an alternate ending as being non-canon.

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
He suicided. And yes, without using force lightning. Galens lightning wasn't all that great. Vitiates was way more powerful.

Exactly, the damage Galen Marek's clone did with it vaporized enemies - vaporizing>charring.

And of course one would assume that Sidious, a Sith Lord far more powerful than Galen Marek, canonically stated at least 3 times to be the most powerful Sith in the mythos, has more lethal Force lightning...just like with Nyriss and Vitiate.

Nephthys
I highly doubt that you can prove its true.

Challenge extended.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Dolos
Exactly, the damage Galen Marek's clone did with it vaporized enemies - vaporizing>charring.

And of course one would assume that Sidious, a Sith Lord far more powerful than Galen Marek, canonically stated at least 3 times to be the most powerful Sith in the mythos, has more lethal Force lightning...just like with Nyriss and Vitiate.

Thats cool. Except that Galens clone only vaporised enemies in a non-canon trailer. But still, cool.

Being the most powerful, even if we accept that as true which I don't, doesn't mean he's the best in all areas. Vitiate surpasses him in telepathy at least. And he also does so in Force Lightning. Nyriss' lightning turned herself into ash upon being turned back on her, even after tearing through her Force shields. Thats more powerful than Marek and Sidious'. Vitiates is infinitely more powerful than that. Do the math.

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats cool. Except that Galens clone only vaporised enemies in a non-canon trailer. But still, cool.

Being the most powerful, even if we accept that as true which I don't, doesn't mean he's the best in all areas. Vitiate surpasses him in telepathy at least. And he also does so in Force Lightning. Nyriss' lightning turned herself into ash upon being turned back on her, even after tearing through her Force shields. Thats more powerful than Marek and Sidious'. Vitiates is infinitely more powerful than that. Do the math.

It vaporized enemies in the novel.

Top Sith

#1: Darth Sidious
#2: Darth Plagueis
#3: Darth Vitiate
#4: Darth Nihilus

Vitiate being stronger than all but the last two masters produced by the most powerful Sith Order in history is the result of his skills in Sith Alchemy and his prodigious connection with the Dark Side before having any training in the Sith ways...which was very similar to Palpatine's though more extreme.

The strongest of Sith follow The Way of the Dark (ergo Sorcerers of Rhand), the Dark Side gives the power through the destruction they cause. The Dark Side gives them what the want, for Nihilus it was satiety, for Vitiate it was immortality, for Plagueis it was immortality, for Sidious it was UNLIIIIMITED POOWWAA!!

Nephthys
Originally posted by Dolos
It vaporized enemies in the novel.

No it didn't.

Originally posted by Dolos
Top Sith

#1: Darth Sidious
#2: Darth Plagueis
#3: Darth Vitiate
#4: Darth Nihilus

Vitiate being stronger than all but the last two masters produced by the most powerful Sith Order in history is the result of his skills in Sith Alchemy and his prodigious connection with the Dark Side...which was very similar to Palpatine's though more extreme.

The strongest of Sith follow The Way Dark (ergo Sorceror's of Rhand), the Dark Side gives the power through the destruction they cause. The Dark Side gives them what the want, for Nihilus it was satiety, for Vitiate it was immortality, for Plagueis it was immortality, for Sidious it was UNLIIIIMITED POOWWAA!!

Interesting tales, sibling. I don't really know what else to say.....

Dolos
Originally posted by Nephthys
No it didn't.


Not in the first novel. His Force wave and Lightning was described as vaporizing Storm Troopers in the Force unleashed II novel. Which I read but don't currently own, so finding the page would be difficult.

Although I might be confusing TFU II and Darth Plagueis.

The_Tempest
Nephthys
Ah. I was starting to think that Legend was grinding you down a bit. I can see now how silly it was of me to think you could sink any lower, intellectually.

You sound inordinately butthurt, bro. Why so serious? laughing out loud

Nephthys
Again, Revan being able to do something does not mean that Dooku and Vader can. Revan has demonstrated exemplary skill at Tutaminis in that he dealt with Nyriss' Lightning with his bare hands. Nyriss' lightning is comparable and arguably superior to Sidious' own lightning. Do you think that Dooku and Vader would block Sidious' lightning when Windu struggled even with the advantage of Vaapad?

Again, we aren't talking about barehanded deflection of lightning, but deflection via lightsaber. There is nothing to suggest Revan is more talented in deflecting energy with his lightsaber than Vader or Dooku.

Nephthys
I don't need to prove an absence of knowledge. smile

So, absence of proof constitutes proof of absence? I'll remember that in our future debates. big grin

Nephthys
I doubt that. Revan also showed us that Vitiate grants his followers great ragdoll resistance innately. Logically Vitiate would also possess this resistance, in greater quantities since he is not being granted it by proxy and he is not having to waste energy granting it to his guards who would not be present in a duel.

Not when his energies are, per the text, expended trying to dominate the minds of his victims. Try to keep up, bro.

Nephthys
Yes, from behind. As he was running past it. And Dooku would still need to waste time destroying it with FLightning, so nyeh.

Yes, a process that would "logically" take infinitely longer by Dooku than by an astromech droid. laughing out loud

Nephthys
Lol. Yes, and Revan and Malak certainly weren't powerful and trained Force Users. It wasn't like they were taught by a telepathic Sith Lord or anything. Twice.

Oh, yes, I forgot: Dooku and Vader will only replicate Revan's actions when it suits your argument but not otherwise. laughing out loud

There's no evidence to suggest either Revan or Malak are on par with Vader and Dooku, bro.

'Nephthys
You've learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation. Striking at him now is your best chance to defeat him once and for all.'

Who's to say he's weakened by the time of the confrontation?

Nephthys
And he was tsill weakened. Dude stumbled while walking down the stairs, its obvious he wasn't 100%

Where did he stumble?

Nephthys
T7 stunned it for ****s sake. He didn't curbstomp anything. It took the Knight several seconds to take out 3 clones, it would take Vader and Dooku a few seconds to take them out as well. Enough time to mindfvck them.

It took the Knight "several seconds" to kill them, one-on-one, with his lightsaber. Here, the combatants will be twice in number and, as Sith Lords, have access and predisposition to offensive Force powers.

But that was a majestic false equivalency there. thumb up

Nephthys
And as I said, battle-hardened astromechs are not that weak. Even an early model HK unit was able to put up a challenging fight to Jareal, who was easily Jedi level and sparred evenly with Malak. T3-M4 beat 3 of the most advanced kinds.

laughing out loud

Which does nothing but indicate Malak and Jareal are not on the level of Vader and Dooku. But keep it up with T3's badassery, LeGenD, just make sure you give Neph his account back when you're done.

TheOneOfMortis
Not nice The Tempest. Legend is at least smart and can at least debate well unlike this utter toolbox.

Nephthys
You, young lady, are a curmudgeon and a slubberdegullion. Also, your brother is a prostitute.

The_Tempest
lolno

The Emperor, at his peak, subjugated billions and manipulated the thoughts of Coruscant's population to conceal the burial of a Super Star Destroyer. Vitiate doesn't come close at all.



Nah, bro. The Emperor's Force lightning reduced Sith acolytes to ash, slaying and mortally injuring Jedi.

On that note, though, are we taking the quote about Vitiate's lightning as literal truth now? Because you were disinclined to do so elsewhere.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
lolno

The Emperor, at his peak, subjugated billions and manipulated the thoughts of Coruscant's population to conceal the burial of a Super Star Destroyer. Vitiate doesn't come close at all.



Nah, bro. The Emperor's Force lightning reduced Sith acolytes to ash, slaying and mortally injuring Jedi.

On that note, though, are we taking the quote about Vitiate's lightning as literal truth now? Because you were disinclined to do so elsewhere.

After ****ing years through unknown means. haermm

Yeah, thats usable in combat!


Thats.... not even close to being as impressive.

I'm allowed to change my mind.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
After ****ing years through unknown means. haermm

Yeah, thats usable in combat!

Never said it was usable in combat, bro. Nice attempt to move the goalpost, though. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats.... not even close to being as impressive.

Yep, it's only impressive when you take out a Sith Lord in an era where they're ragdolled in quick succession by lowly Republic troopers. Way to set the standard at impossible heights, bro!

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm allowed to change my mind.

You might want to change your underwear, bro, because I detect rectal hemorrhaging. laughing out loud

KuRuPT Thanosi
I actually like Legend.. There I said it!!!

TheOneOfMortis
Oh my Nephthys. Tempest is kicking you ass bro.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by TheOneOfMortis
Oh my Nephthys. Tempest is kicking you ass bro.

He's used to it.

It's the nature of our relationship, he enjoys being punished. :3

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Never said it was usable in combat, bro. Nice attempt to move the goalpost, though. laughing out loud

Whatever, it isn't as impressive as Vitiates feats. If you're allowing prep then the V-maester destroys him. 8000 SITH LORDS BOTCH! HOWS THAT! TASTES LIKE SWAG HUH?!

You're damn right it does.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yep, it's only impressive when you take out a Sith Lord in an era where they're ragdolled in quick succession by lowly Republic troopers. Way to set the standard at impossible heights, bro!

Non-force sensitives have been able to pose a threat to powerful force users for a while now. Don't hate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You might want to change your underwear, bro, because I detect rectal hemorrhaging. laughing out loud

I don't really.... know what that means but... your dumb. You butt.

The_Tempest
My concluding remarks are as follows:

First, on the matter of Dooku & Vader vs. Vitiate, it's pretty evident that the duo curbstomp. The Revan text is replete with evidence that the Emperor relies on preparation and exudes effort from street-level telekinesis (knocking Revan back at the beginning of the fight, from which Revan was unharmed) to Force lightning (which did injure Revan critically because he assumed his two choices were charge or stand still). Telepathically, the effect is not instantaneous per the text: it is precisely because the Emperor was "unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind" that Vitiate is consequently ragdolled. Vader and Dooku have vastly superior telekinetic feats than Revan or Vitiate in both raw power and skill. Combined with their superior feats as swordsmen, it is pretty apparent they have an edge. If Vitiate has time to prepare, perhaps the outcome differs. But left to his natural abilities, this guy is a colossal disappointment, even when able to draw power from his dark side nexus of a throneworld.

Second, on the relevant thread topic: Malgus and Revan are fodder for Sidious, who by comparison of feats discussed previously is significantly faster. Then poor Bane is triple-teamed and subsequently crushed.

It's been fun bantering with Neph and lecturing LeGenD, but unless anyone else has anything substantive to add, I think I'm done.

Nephthys
Aw man, I was just getting into a really giggly mood.

Horny giggly.

>:]
> :]
>:]
> :]
>:]

The_Tempest
Nephthys
Whatever, it isn't as impressive as Vitiates feats. If you're allowing prep then the V-maester destroys him. 8000 SITH LORDS BOTCH! HOWS THAT! TASTES LIKE SWAG HUH?!

You're damn right it does.

I am pleased you've caught on and correspondingly adjusted the impertinent tone of your counterarguments. You would do well to respect and fear my wrath.

Anyway, no. First, the figure comes from an in-universe source concerning an unverified legend that even a reputable member of the Dark Council was unable to corroborate. Second, there is no evidence that these featless Sith Lords in question would be powerful enough to consider their subjugation impressive. Third, even if they were, there is no evidence to suggest that they attempted to muster a defense. Fourth, we do not know what sort of preparative efforts were made by Vitiate for such a task. Fifth, 8,000 featless Sith Lords versus 20 billion featless mundanes is not remotely comparable: Sidious's feat is infinitely more astounding in scale and scope, to say nothing of his efforts with respect to Coruscant.

Nephthys
Non-force sensitives have been able to pose a threat to powerful force users for a while now. Don't hate.

Very rarely in single combat where the trooper in question is outnumbered heavily and still mows through Sith Lords as though they weren't even there.

Nephthys
I don't really.... know what that means but... your dumb. You butt.

I was suggesting I raped you anally. Deal with it, bro.

Love u

Now I'm done.

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