Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I was talking to a freind of mine recently who told me that he had seen a picture (maybe from rotk) that sees saruman and grima atop the tower of orthanc and grima has a dagger in his hand??? i know you will not beleive me coz noone ever does on these forum things but i swear on my life that these pictures have been seen somewere!!

Rumour has it that several versions of Saruman's death were prepared in order to keep people guessing. Only a rumour though.

well my theory is that grima stabs saruman/cuts his throat, saruman plunges from the tower deep into the mines of orthanc and gets impaled on a huge spike.

umm..what?..i though saruman died while escaping hobbiton. grima stabs him...what orthanc?

Talking about the films, here, Dexx. Saruman dies far earlier in ROTK, apparently.

I think that ending will be a shame, grima shouldn't be able to do that, plus I like the ending in the book, it allows our little heroes to return and free Hobbiton so all the other halflings can see and accept that they have grown into heroes.

I dislike the unnecessary romp around hobbiton with the orcies at the end..just to add length

It's not just to add length, I think it was to enhance the rep. of the little fella;s with their piers to show what thay had become.

Yes, I saw the Scouring of the Shire like that too.

No, it was a pointless epilogue that destroyed the flow of the book and it should never have been included, in my opinion. I was utterly uninterested in the entire chapter.

Yes, I saw the Scouring of the Shire like that too...

yeah, i heard he dies, but i didn't get to that part in the book. my friend told me at badminton club because i made her tell me. i was just to lazy to finish the last chapters of rotk for some reason. can't wait to see the movie! hope shelob isn't too scary! i hate spiders as much as ron weasley ^.~

You've been watching the Chamber of Secrets, haven't you...what a coincidence.

I have a feeling that the impalement will be the death of Saruman. Just a gut feeling...

knowing producers nowadays, monsters def scarier than 2 yrs ago

The Scouring is cut out of rotk i was told
so they would have to kill saurman differently

Of course, we had our guesses.

Myndon's nice, so I won't be mean about the fact that we already know it has been cut. There are others that wouldn't be so fortunate...

I know how Saruman dies!!! Do u wanna know???

Sure, but put it in spoilers. When you put the following...

(spoiler)text(/spoiler) Replace the ( ) with

i liked the scouring of the shire.....

It was okay. Kind of useless, but it was the whole "happily ever after" thing that counted.

my friends told me that saruman dies in the end. wow. heard he became a wanderer from last i read. i didn't read the last couple chapters or so and the appendix all that time ago. i really should've finished. i need to re-read any way for an upcoming fics of mine...^.~KaJi

He became a wanderer and then he was killed.

I don't think he should die that easy... I hope that Gandalf just stabs the hell out of him and fries him with his wizard powers...

All i know is that Saruman should have died in the movie.
Anyway but at least die some how. I can understand twisting a story, but not killing someone thats death is so important is ludicrous.

I understand where you're coming from. I'm very aware of all the LOTR fans who were very aggravated when they heard that Saruman's death didn't make it to the final cut. And I really can't blame them, or you, or me (whenever I can't help it but to be disappointed at some of the changes I disapproved with myself) but I think we can do no more about it. The movie was released already, some theaters don't even show it anymore, I think we just have to wait for the EE to see the "definitive ROTK film version". The "real" version for lack of a better word. I understand your disappointment and regret (I was also once like you before I thought to myself that I should just get over it) but I think we just have to be happy with the version we have right now. PJ and Co. might have done lots of changes, but at least the movie was decent. PJ has his own understanding and vision of the book. I don't even want to imagine what if the movie came to the hands of other directors.

Life is good.

Sorry, fans... Scouring of the Shire is probably the most important part of the whole book... its when the hobbits of the quest (and the reader) realise that the quest against Sauron hasn't changed much, really... evil still exists, and now it has come home. While Frodo et al were away, the Shire has moved on, just as the modern world has moved on from the so-called "time of legend." The heroes can no longer be what they were.. they must become leaders, or leave. Pippin and merry realise this in the end, and die not in the land of their birth, but in Gondor and Rohan, Frodo realises it early on, and even Sam cannot rest in the Shire, but in the end goes "over the sea" leaving the "new" world behind him. With the end of the Dark Lord comes not a better time, but rather a worse one, with the end of Elves and magic, and the beginning of the rule of man and machine...

No, it's not. Otherwise, the movies should have failed miserably and the fans of the book would have never forgave the filmmakers for leaving that chapter out. Their hearts wouldn't find peace if the "most important part of the whole book" was left out. And I believe that no part of the book is the "most important", all of them are important. Just like how no single particular character is the "true hero". They're all heroes. Except Sauron's minions of course.

No movie fails miserably because an important part is missed out... some adaptations of books for the big screen have even left out the main character without affecting ticket sales! And lets be honest, wherever I go on this forum there are fans of the book screaming "Why did they miss out the Scouring of the Shire!!" I stand by what I said: The destruction of the Ring leads to a worse world, not a better one, a point that the movie seems to have missed completely....

whoah you think??

i loved the chapter....how the hobbitws get all worked up lol.....the first and last deaths of the war of the ring were in the shire


i think they should have had it...saruman dying in the place he corrupted at the hands of people he had overlooked seemd ironic to me....

I agree with Sauron... nothing pointless about the Scouring of the Shire... that's like saying that the scenes with Gollum in the Hobbit are pointless...

agreed, However, I agree with Shadowy that it wouldnt be very good in the actual film.

well to have it in the film it would need to be at least anpther hour long

and remeber the movie had to appeal to non-book fans......people would walk out after the biiiig battle...rings gone.....they get back to the shire and see some noncey shirrifs beaing pathetic.....


so in the book its excellent...shows how they have grown.....
in the film.......quite pointless as it doesnt do much to the plot does it

Excellent in the book, anti-climactic and unnecessary in the film.

Exactly my opinion Lordy.

great minds think alike

I think there will be a "Scouring of the Shire" sequence in Rotk EE. In the beginning of Rotk, Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, Theoden, Eomer and Legolas comes to Isengard, where Merry & Pippin are. Treebeard says:

"Rock and stone, wood and water I can master, but there's a wizard in the tower I can't manage" (or something like that)

and Gandalf answers:

"And there Saruman must remain"

I've read that Grima will push Saruman and that Saruman will fall down from the tower, and then Legolas will shoot Grima. (All this takes place up in the Orthanc tower, as far as I know)

But how can Gandalf in one moment say "And there Saruman must remain", when in the other moment go up in Orthanc together with Theoden, Eomer, Legolas, Gimli & co? I don't get it. And people have told me that Theoden will be present when Saruman and Grima are killed - then Saruman and Grima must be killed when Gandalf & co are at Isengard in the beginning of Rotk - because Theoden dies on Pellenor fields.. But still, how could Gandalf say: "and there he must remain"?? I dont get it, there must be another sequence when Gandalf & Co comes back to Isengard after the ring's thrown into the fires of Mount Doom - or there will be a scouring of the Shire.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you.

The Scouring was NEVER filmed. So it wouldn't be in the EE, either.

If I understood what you're saying correctly, yes, Saruman and Grima will die in Isengard. When Gandalf said "And there Saruman must remain", it is before Saruman's and Grima's first ROTK appearance and it is before both of them had died. And yes, Theoden is present when they died. When Pippin took up the palantir, the whole ordeal is already finished. In the film, it's either Grima threw the palantir from Orthanc just like in the book or Saruman carried it with him while he was falling. I'm not so sure. The filmmakers just cut out loads of stuff in between the "And there Saruman must remain" line to the discovery of the palantir, etc.

If you don't want to be spoiled, ignore this reply

If you want to be spoiled just click here, and enjoy (almost ALL extra scenes that will be included in LotR:RotK:EE - with lots of pictures/screencaps/...)

About the way Saruman dies just take a look at this picture : see attachment (hopefully)

I understand, shadowy_blue. But I have a thought that PJ & Co had not told us the truth.

shadowy_blue: The Scouring was NEVER filmed. So it wouldn't be in the EE, either.

dileno I understand, shadowy_blue. But I have a thought that PJ & Co had not told us the truth.

Take a look at the scenes in the mirror of Galadriel (when Frodo look into it) in the FotR. There are some scenes of Sam (& Frodo) being captured by Orks, AND some scenes of the Scouring of the Shire.

Yes..but those scenes were featured as you said just in "The Mirror of Galadriel" scene...the "real" Scouring of the Shire scene was never filmed. Those scenes above are just nods to the chapter that we will miss.

don't argue with the ultimate shadowy....

Discos - or we shall all suffer

No. No arguments.

My favorite part in the book is when Wormtongue tries to hit Gandalf with the Plantir and Saruman screams shortly after...... HILARIOUS

shadowy_blue Yes..but those scenes were featured as you said just in "The Mirror of Galadriel" scene...the "real" Scouring of the Shire scene was never filmed. Those scenes above are just nods to the chapter that we will miss.

Indeed, and all for the reasons you gave earlier ... It just gives you more reasons to read the books (if you haven't already)