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Who can lift Thor hammer (by any means necessary). This could involve strength or having the right qualities to lift the hammer. This thread doesn't include people that has already lifted the hammer.

Go!!!

Pure strength isn't enough.

Robots

No robots.

@Pr...

You don't think there are individuals that can overpower the enchantment?

According to Brevoort, no one save Thor can lift that hammer (even people that have previously lifted it).

He's a moron though.

Logically, any being more powerful than Odin should be able to lift the hammer by overpowering the enchantment. SUPPOSEDLY, Mephisto not only broke the enchantment (by grabbing and holding Mjolnir) he also melted it to slag then recreated it and threw it at Thor.

He was in his realm when he did this, so he was at his most powerful. However, there are people that say this was only an illusion created by Mephisto.

Originally posted by carver9
No robots.

@Pr...

You don't think there are individuals that can overpower the enchantment?

No.

It's magic, etc.

Unless we're talking much more powerful skyfathers etc.

I bet Mettle, He-man, and Jason (MMPR) could...

I wonder if Classic Hercules can lift it.

Don't see why current couldn't?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I bet Mettle, He-man, and Jason (MMPR) could...

As good as Jason is (I mean, **** that Tommy guy, ponytailed poser), I don't see how.

He came back as the only one capable of weilding the gold ranger power, billy tried and failed....
I guess they are similar imho

Illusion? Real? I'll let you decide Carver :
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsMephisto09.jpg
I used to think it was an illusion (like how he conjured an image of Odin for Thor but now I'm not so sure). Think about it. If Mephisto didn't at least CATCH and HOLD the hammer, where was it inbetween the time Thor threw it at him and the time it traveled back to Thor's hand.
Originally posted by -Pr-
As good as Jason is (I mean, **** that Tommy guy, ponytailed poser), I don't see how.
Tommy was a Ranger long after Jason was booted from the show (the guy that was a PR the longest). Take that!

In space anyone can lift it

Originally posted by zopzop
Illusion? Real? I'll let you decide Carver :
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsMephisto09.jpg
I used to think it was an illusion (like how he conjured an image of Odin for Thor but now I'm not so sure). Think about it. If Mephisto didn't at least CATCH and HOLD the hammer, where was it inbetween the time Thor threw it at him and the time it traveled back to Thor's hand.

Tommy was a Ranger long after Jason was booted from the show (the guy that was a PR the longest). Take that!

That means nothing.

Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
In space anyone can lift it

Cap

This doesn't include the hammer being in space.

@Zop Zop...

Mephisto caught the hammer and threw it. Now him melting is debatable but its clear the hammer was in his hands.

Originally posted by carver9
This doesn't include the hammer being in space.

@Zop Zop...

Mephisto caught the hammer and threw it. Now him melting is debatable but its clear the hammer was in his hands.

How is melting debatable when he does it on panel?

Originally posted by zopzop
Illusion? Real? I'll let you decide Carver :
I used to think it was an illusion (like how he conjured an image of Odin for Thor but now I'm not so sure). Think about it. If Mephisto didn't at least CATCH and HOLD the hammer, where was it inbetween the time Thor threw it at him and the time it traveled back to Thor's hand.
Illyana broke Cyttorak's enchantment on Colossus while within her own realm. A Hell-Lord is supposed to be supreme within their own realm, outside the bounds of natural law. Mephisto actually melting it and restoring it sounds more conceivable than him merely creating an illusion of such.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


So zero g can bypass the enchantment? And here I thought the Rulk thing was pis. This is great! Hahahahahaha!!!

So Graviton?

Cap, Beta Ray Bill, Odin, Gaea, Captain Mar-vell!!

Originally posted by the Darkone
Cap, Beta Ray Bill, Odin, Gaea, Captain Mar-vell!! these guys have on panel.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Cap, Beta Ray Bill, Odin, Gaea, Captain Mar-vell!!

add Orion, Storm, Batman

Not the Hulk.

Damnit Jake you beat me to it

I think Hulk could with enough anger imo

The Hulk isn't overpowering Odin's enchantment, at least not any Hulk that we have seen in the comics.

Diana.

Diana, Hercules, CA, probably Batman, CM, Odin, ...

Originally posted by h1a8
Diana, Hercules, CA, probably Batman, CM, Odin, ...

Yes, no, no, no, no and yes.

Although WW and Odin have already lifted it on panel, so they don't count per the OP.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14094660

(Copy and paste these URLs in a new window to view as links.)

Originally posted by dmills
So zero g can bypass the enchantment? And here I thought the Rulk thing was pis. This is great! Hahahahahaha!!!


Yes, Zero Gravity can bypass the enchantment.
The scene above was written many, many years before anyone even heard of the Red Hulk.
The enchantment resumes once gravity does, however, as shown a little later in that same magazine ...


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14094663

(For all those concerned, rest assured -- Iron Man DOES survive... )


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Avengers #122, Volume 1
Writer: Steve Englehart
Penciller: Bob Brown
Date: April 1974
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Avengers_Vol_1_122

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk isn't overpowering Odin's enchantment, at least not any Hulk that we have seen in the comics.

Surfer.

Originally posted by -Pr-
How is debatable when does it on panel?



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14044783

Source: Incredible Hulk vol.1 #227
Writer: Roger Stern
Assist: Peter Gillis
Penciller: Sal Buscema
Inker: Klaus Janson
Colors: Glynis Wein
Editor: Bob Hall
Date: September 1978

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-227.html

^ It was a dream.

Adam Warlock should be able to lift the Hammer using his magics and or Soul Gem.
He is crafty afterall.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk isn't overpowering Odin's enchantment, at least not any Hulk that we have seen in the comics.


Are you certain the one that did THIS couldn't?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14128895



Source Information link:

http://marvel.com/comic_books/series/14697/hulk_vs_dracula_2011_-_present

Issue is Hulk versus Dracula (2011) #3.






Image: Hulk, as "Null", breaking the Asgardian Enchantment on the Serpent's Hammer (along, of course, with the hammer ...)

Originally posted by dmills
So zero g can bypass the enchantment? And here I thought the Rulk thing was pis. This is great! Hahahahahaha!!!

Actually, now that I come to it again, it is probably more the absence of define-able GROUND that bypasses the enchantment.

Floating in space like that, not on Earth or Moon, or Mars, or anywhere with something to define "ground" for that hammer, let alone "up" or "down", there's nothing to really lift Mjolnir up FROM.

Tackling the problem that way gets around any "no lift" clauses not covered by mere gravity-negation.

Originally posted by dmills
So zero g can bypass the enchantment? And here I thought the Rulk thing was pis. This is great! Hahahahahaha!!! he said he studied thor

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Actually, now that I come to it again, it is probably more the absence of define-able GROUND that bypasses the enchantment.

Floating in space like that, not on Earth or Moon, or Mars, or anywhere with something to define "ground" for that hammer, let alone "up" or "down", there's nothing to really lift Mjolnir up FROM.

Tackling the problem that way gets around any "no lift" clauses not covered by mere gravity-negation. Probably how Magneto did it too.

DC:
Superman
Captain Marvel
Wonder Woman
Orion

Marvel:
Captain America
Thunderstrike :>
Beta Ray Bill :>

Any Skyfather

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Are you certain the one that did THIS couldn't?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14128895



Source Information link:

http://marvel.com/comic_books/series/14697/hulk_vs_dracula_2011_-_present

Issue is Hulk versus Dracula (2011) #3.






Image: Hulk, as "Null", breaking the Asgardian Enchantment on the Serpent's Hammer (along, of course, with the hammer ...)

Hulk isn't overpowering Odin's enchantment.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Illyana broke Cyttorak's enchantment on Colossus while within her own realm. A Hell-Lord is supposed to be supreme within their own realm, outside the bounds of natural law. Mephisto actually melting it and restoring it sounds more conceivable than him merely creating an illusion of such.
Well the whole "hell lord is supreme in their realm" thing is relatively recent no?

Even discounting that, there was the whole Galactus/Mephisto throwdown that was truly epic. Galactus needed to resort to eating Mephisto's realm for Mephisto to capitulate. Before that they were going toe to toe with neither side gaining the upper hand. I guess if we use that fight as a metric, then yes, Mephisto is more than capable of breaking Odin's enchantment (in his realm) and slagging and then recreating the hammer.

Zero gravity trick didn't work on Beta Ray Bill's hammer

Horse Face >>> Latte Lover

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
DC:
Superman
Captain Marvel
Wonder Woman
Orion

Marvel:
Captain America
Thunderstrike :>
Beta Ray Bill :>

Any Skyfather You forgot Black Adam For DC

Originally posted by carver9
No robots.

@Pr...

You don't think there are individuals that can overpower the enchantment?

not physically no.

Originally posted by zopzop
According to Brevoort, no one save Thor can lift that hammer (even people that have previously lifted it).

He's a moron though.

Logically, any being more powerful than Odin should be able to lift the hammer by overpowering the enchantment. SUPPOSEDLY, Mephisto not only broke the enchantment (by grabbing and holding Mjolnir) he also melted it to slag then recreated it and threw it at Thor.

He was in his realm when he did this, so he was at his most powerful. However, there are people that say this was only an illusion created by Mephisto.

Breevort's opinion on the matter doesn't change what already happened though; and he already acknowledged on Formspring that Beta Ray Bill lifted the hammer during Simonson's legendary run. He just feels (feels being the keyword) that no one but Thor (even umm.. Odin) should be able to lift it. Moreover, Captain America again wielded Mjolnir towards the end of the Fear Itself event in issue #7 (a book approved by Breevort himself), and that was fairly recent.

Thor should just give his hammer to Cap.

Here are some suggestions:
1)Zeus - Skyfather
2)Count-Nefaria - probably amped but the feat himself is crazy.....
3)Maestro - Hulk - definitly can't lift M'jolnir but seem the closest being to budge a little Mjolnir with pure strenght.......
what about these scans?

http://www.imagup.com/data/1170380080.html

I am haven't read that Mephisto destroying Thor's hammer but as far as i know Mephisto never had Odin under his control so i guessing that was an illusion aas well as Mjolnir being melted down

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thor should just give his hammer to Cap.

Happens in issue# 4 of his own title. That's why Cap has long hair and a beard now.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
I am haven't read that Mephisto destroying Thor's hammer but as far as i know Mephisto never had Odin under his control so i guessing that was an illusion aas well as Mjolnir being melted down
That was what I was saying when I saw that. But that doesn't explain where the hammer was inbetween the time Thor threw it and it traveled back to his hand.

Even if the slagging was an illusion, the grasping and holding it must have been real. Otherwise the hammer would have returned to Thor's hand. It didn't return until Mephisto himself threw it back to Thor.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14044783

Source: Incredible Hulk vol.1 #227
Writer: Roger Stern
Assist: Peter Gillis
Penciller: Sal Buscema
Inker: Klaus Janson
Colors: Glynis Wein
Editor: Bob Hall
Date: September 1978

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-227.html

Please don't twist my words. You wouldn't like me when you twist my words.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes, no, no, no, no and yes.

Although WW and Odin have already lifted it on panel, so they don't count per the OP.

Ok hercules, Odin, and CA have already lifted it on panel.
Diana only if you count crossovers.

But CM should definitely be able to lift it.
Batman is iffy and I wouldn't be surprised if he could.

Originally posted by h1a8
Ok hercules, Odin, and CA have already lifted it on panel.
Diana only if you count crossovers.

But CM should definitely be able to lift it.
Batman is iffy and I wouldn't be surprised if he could.

Hercules hasn't lifted it on-panel; WW, Odin and Cap don't count because of the OP 's stips.

I see no reason for CM or Batman to be worthy.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Hercules hasn't lifted it on-panel; WW, Odin and Cap don't count because of the OP 's stips.

I see no reason for CM or Batman to be worthy.

Hercules has lifted it on panel.

Why repeat about Odin and Cap? That's a waste of time and typing.
I said WW only if crossovers count. If they don't then WW can lift it per OP stips.

CM is more worthy than Thor IMO
Batman is iffy and I don't see Cap being more worthy than him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hercules has lifted it on panel.

Post the scan



If crossovers don't count, then there is no proof that WW can lift Mjolnir



Define worthy as it pertains to lifting Mjolnir.

BTW, I hope you aren't going to try and pass off Hercules using the technological copy that was created by Stark and Richards.

Because that would just prove that you have zero comic knowledge.

Dormammu
Captain Marvel
Captain MAr-vell
Adam Warlock
Orion

Originally posted by zopzop
Well the whole "hell lord is supreme in their realm" thing is relatively recent no?

Even discounting that, there was the whole Galactus/Mephisto throwdown that was truly epic. Galactus needed to resort to eating Mephisto's realm for Mephisto to capitulate. Before that they were going toe to toe with neither side gaining the upper hand. I guess if we use that fight as a metric, then yes, Mephisto is more than capable of breaking Odin's enchantment (in his realm) and slagging and then recreating the hammer.
Actually its just a rehash of what's been mentioned before on-panel. And I am pretty sure that the Galactus/Mephisto fight is what established this particular perimeter, so I don't think its out of the bounds for Mephisto to be able to do such a thing in his own realm.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
He came back as the only one capable of weilding the gold ranger power, billy tried and failed....
I guess they are similar imho

Thanks for the idea bro

No problem

Originally posted by h1a8
Hercules has lifted it on panel.

Why repeat about Odin and Cap? That's a waste of time and typing.
I said WW only if crossovers count. If they don't then WW can lift it per OP stips.

CM is more worthy than Thor IMO
Batman is iffy and I don't see Cap being more worthy than him.

When did Hercules lift it on panel?

Billy is more "pure hearted" and innocent than Thor is, but being a nice guy isn't all that's required to lift the hammer. If that's the case, Balder would be worthy as would Peter Parker. You still need to have a sort of warrior's mentality such as being willing to take a life for the greater good. To that end, someone like Diana - not counting the crossover - would be more likely to lift it than Billy.

Batman's way too, well, Batman, to be able to lift the thing.

Herc can lift whatever he wants.

That's part of his powers.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Hulk isn't overpowering Odin's enchantment.


Clarify please.



Are you saying:

a) Nul is not Hulk. He broke the Serpent Hammer through magic?

b) Hulk under ordinary conditions breaks the Serpent Hammer, but Odin magic is more powerful than Serpent Magic and can't be overcome through physical strength no matter how great?

or

c) even Nul Hulk WITH whatever magic Nul may have had could not break Thor's hammer or lift it. Odin enchantment is stronger than even Nul Hulk under almost any given set of conditions. Odin's enchantments beat even strength PLUS magic.

Hulk destroying the Serpent's Nul hammer doesn't mean he could do the same thing to Mjonir or lift it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hulk destroying the Serpent's Nul hammer doesn't mean he could do the same thing to Mjonir or lift it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hulk destroying the Serpent's Nul hammer doesn't mean he could do the same thing to Mjonir or lift it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
When did Hercules lift it on panel?

Billy is more "pure hearted" and innocent than Thor is, but being a nice guy isn't all that's required to lift the hammer. If that's the case, Balder would be worthy as would Peter Parker. You still need to have a sort of warrior's mentality such as being willing to take a life for the greater good. To that end, someone like Diana - not counting the crossover - would be more likely to lift it than Billy.

Batman's way too, well, Batman, to be able to lift the thing.

He lifted it when both Thor and Herc fought switching roles. Or was that a fake Mjolnir?
Billy is brave, noble, etc. What characteristic that Thor and Cap have that Billy or Freddie don't have?

Parker is selfish and arrogant. I don't know much about Balder (did he try to lift Mjolnir before?)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hulk destroying the Serpent's Nul hammer doesn't mean he could do the same thing to Mjonir or lift it. I say it does mean he can break Mjolnir though.

Originally posted by h1a8
He lifted it when both Thor and Herc fought switching roles. Or was that a fake Mjolnir?
Billy is brave, noble, etc. What characteristic that Thor and Cap have that Billy or Freddie don't have?

Parker is selfish and arrogant. I don't know much about Balder (did he try to lift Mjolnir before?)

Again, Hercules has never lifted Mjolnir.

Originally posted by h1a8
I say it does mean he can break Mjolnir though.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, Hercules has never lifted Mjolnir.



Prove it.

Same material and enchanted by a skyfather and writer's intentions and Mjolnir has been broken by lesser force before. Follower of Jake

You'd have to prove writer intent.

Originally posted by h1a8
Same material and enchanted by a skyfather and writer's intentions and Mjolnir has been broken by lesser force before.

When has Mjolnir been broken by "less force"?

BTW, can you prove that the forging process was the same, that they had the exact same enchantments on them and that the skyfather's used the same amount of power?

I'm a little confused.

If Thor and Hercules are both of equal strength,

and Thor and Hercules are both sons of Skyfathers with equal godly rank --


why shouldn't Hercules be able to lift Mjolnir?


He's effectively the Greek equal and counterpart of Thor, right?




Or are the "worthiness" enchantments by Odin still harder to get past than that?
And if even Hercules is unworthy, what happened in the case of Storm and Beta Ray Bill?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm a little confused.

If Thor and Hercules are both of equal strength,

and Thor and Hercules are both sons of Skyfathers with equal godly rank --


why shouldn't Hercules be able to lift Mjolnir?


He's effectively the Greek equal and counterpart of Thor, right?




Or are the "worthiness" enchantments by Odin still harder to get past than that?
And if even Hercules is unworthy, what happened in the case of Storm and Beta Ray Bill?

Strength and who your parents are have never been shown to matter in regards to being worthy.

Captain America, Zealot and Wonder Woman are my prime choices.

I would mention Majestro, but he falls somewhere in line with Gladiator. He is noble, he is a warrior but something is missing to make him trully worthy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You'd have to prove writer intent.

Correct. Well writer had Nul breaking adamantium with less effort and the enchanted Uru hammer with far more effort. And it didn't seem as if the writer wrote Mjolnir>>>the enchanted Uru hammer's.

Originally posted by Silent Master
When has Mjolnir been broken by "less force"?

BTW, can you prove that the forging process was the same, that they had the exact same enchantments on them and that the skyfather's used the same amount of power? Thor broke Mjolnir hitting Ulik. Thor with a small portion of the OF broke Mjolnir on Bor. It might be other times as well, I have to see.

According to the logic of Silent, you must prove it was a different forging process (and if that's makes a difference with Uru metal).

Also where is it stated in comics that the enchantment affects the durability of the hammer?

Originally posted by h1a8
He lifted it when both Thor and Herc fought switching roles. Or was that a fake Mjolnir?
Billy is brave, noble, etc. What characteristic that Thor and Cap have that Billy or Freddie don't have?

Parker is selfish and arrogant. I don't know much about Balder (did he try to lift Mjolnir before?)

You mean Hercuthor and Thorcules?

Billy is a good kid but is too naive and innocent to be worthy of Mjolnir. He doesn't have a warrior's heart like either Thor or Steve. Parker's not selfish and arrogant. He has moments where those traits show themselves, but as a whole, he's a great human being. Balder is esssentially the most noble, most liked, and adored Asgardian. Literally everyone - including the animals and nature itself (barring mistletoe) - loves him. He's a formidable warrior, but he's considered to be the shining light of Asgard. And he can't lift Mjolnir by his and others own accounts.

Originally posted by h1a8
I say it does mean he can break Mjolnir though.

How so? You can't prove Serpent = Odin (especially when it was shown already that Odin > Serpent) nor that their enchantments were equal.

Originally posted by h1a8
Same material and enchanted by a skyfather and writer's intentions and Mjolnir has been broken by lesser force before. Follower of Jake

Skyfathers aren't made equal, especially Odin and Serpent. Fraction, the guy who wrote Fear Itself, also clearly showed us that Odin was beyond the likes of the Serpent power wise in spite of him not being able to be the one to perma-kill him. lol @ "follower of Jake", though.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm a little confused.

If Thor and Hercules are both of equal strength,

and Thor and Hercules are both sons of Skyfathers with equal godly rank --


why shouldn't Hercules be able to lift Mjolnir?


He's effectively the Greek equal and counterpart of Thor, right?




Or are the "worthiness" enchantments by Odin still harder to get past than that?
And if even Hercules is unworthy, what happened in the case of Storm and Beta Ray Bill?

Because lineage, strength, and power aren't the prerequisites for lifting Mjolnir? Hercules has his moments of being a noble selfless hero, but nine times out of ten, he's a drunk womanizing braggart with questionable moments of honor. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but he's not worthy like Bill or Captain America is.

Storm just had a bastardized copy of Mjolnir not the real thing.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor broke Mjolnir hitting Ulik. Thor with a small portion of the OF broke Mjolnir on Bor. It might be other times as well, I have to see.

According to the logic of Silent, you must prove it was a different forging process (and if that's makes a difference with Uru metal).

Also where is it stated in comics that the enchantment affects the durability of the hammer?

...

When did Thor break Mjolnir hitting Ulik? Bor was stated by the writer - seeing as how you're all over writer's intent - to be harder than Mjolnir. That's a crazy feat for Bor. It was also broken by the Destroyer Armor, Perrikus (who had been amped), shattered by Thor's own internal energies, and warped by Molecule Man.

Thor is able to crush normal uru. He can't do the same to enchanted uru, let alone uru enchanted by Odin.

facepalm

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor broke Mjolnir hitting Ulik. Thor with a small portion of the OF broke Mjolnir on Bor. It might be other times as well, I have to see.

OF Thor isn't an examples of "less force"



IOW, you have nothing to indicate they are of the same durability. BTW, Thor has crushed normal Uru in his hands before

Originally posted by h1a8
Correct. Well writer had Nul breaking adamantium with less effort and the enchanted Uru hammer with far more effort. And it didn't seem as if the writer wrote Mjolnir>>>the enchanted Uru hammer's.

Matt Fraction wrote Odin being > Serpent and Thor being > the Worthy (barring Nul whom he still BFRed with a single blow and not being 100%).

This writer intent argument would be nice if you actually read these stories.

DCnuSuperman leans over and picks up the hammer, and the planet it's rested on at the same time.

Originally posted by zopzop
That was what I was saying when I saw that. But that doesn't explain where the hammer was inbetween the time Thor threw it and it traveled back to his hand.

Even if the slagging was an illusion, the grasping and holding it must have been real. Otherwise the hammer would have returned to Thor's hand. It didn't return until Mephisto himself threw it back to Thor. I can see that or the hammer could have just missed all together and it was just an illusion too. Given it was in mephisto realm it is very possiable he held the hammer then again when Loki planted the sword that could kill off Bor's hand maidens I thought Mephisto couldn't weld it either i have to look back

Originally posted by -Pr-
Please don't twist my words. You wouldn't like me when you twist my words.


It's hard sometimes to tell when you're serious.
Certainly no one should be misrepresented as a general rule; I'd like to think I'm fairly good at avoiding doing that in most if not all cases.

I didn't think what I wrote was twisting what you said;
rather just stating it in the most generic format.

I certainly wasn't trying to misrepresent, only trying to make the point that, sometimes, what we see on panel ISN'T what's really happening.

That old 1978 showing of Hulk crushing Mjolnir, for instance, is something that is shown on panel.

Except, it isn't.

Going by that panel and the other panels of that scan, you might think "Whoa! Either Marvel writers REALLY gave Hulk props back in the day, or they were smoking something! Hulk CRUSHED THOR'S HAMMER!"

He didn't. That's actually an imaginary sequence occurring in Hulk's own mind, with Doc Samson "there" as an observer.

If you just went by what is shown "on panel" via that scan, you might come to the wrong conclusion.



Originally posted by -Pr-
How is melting debatable when he does it on panel?


The above is your actual, action-specific question.
It was being debated just a few posts before me.

And the REASON it was being debated is because you left out 1 important consideration when you asked that:

Mephisto is a master of deceit, lies, and illusion.


You can't always trust what you see with him.



I remember a story entitled "Mephisto versus The X-Men", for instance.

For whatever reason, Meph decided to harass the team.
Got them on edge and warned he would be coming for them.

They decided to patrol the grounds, splitting up of necessity, but with strict orders to contact the rest of the team to try to deal with Meph if any single person encountered him.

Mephisto targeted Rogue. He offered her what she really wanted: The chance to be touched intimately. Her power had not been eliminated, though, so she could still read his thoughts when they kissed a moment later. She discovered a large portion of his hidden plan.
He intended to take the souls of the X-Men even after accepting Rogue's willing sacrifice. Mephisto told Rogue he did not think her power would be so effective. Not only could she read his thoughts, the contact also apparently weakened him. But he could teleport away and pick off the OTHER X-Men if he couldn't get her ...

Rogue races to save her teammates. She reasons that her power enables her to temporaily to take everything that makes a person a person, that she can therefore effectively take and safekeep the souls of her teammates for a time by physically touching them, at least until she can stumble upon a way to permanently protect them from Meph.

Her plan almost works; she's strong enough to overpower or trick her allies despite resistance from the most formidable because she takes them one by one. She manages to outrace Mephisto at every turn and at one point even launches him through the roof of the X-Mansion with a powerful double uppercut.

The X-Men are safe! The day is won ...!

Except, of course ... it's not.

Mephisto lied. Rogue DID read his thoughts. But only part of them.
The part of them that he ALLOWED her to read. Everything she got was correct except that her power could only affect Mephisto to the point he WANTED her power to affect him. Meph WANTED Rogue to do precisely what she did. Because her desperate attempt at true heroism insured that she would collect their souls for him. And then Meph simply took her and claimed them all. Which he could NOT have done without Rogue's help. Because he could claim but one unoffered soul by some divine law known only to Marvel Comics, but, of course, he didn't tell Rogue that when it would have helped. And he was going along with Rogue punching him out of the estate. She WAS stronger than normal by that point, but, as Mephisto pointed out himself, he is the embodiment of human evil. Physical strength alone can't destroy that, or him.


At any rate, Mephisto is a liar, deceiver, master illusionist, and actor.

Whereas seeing a thing on-panel is usually sufficient proof in the average case, it is often NOT a good guide in dealing with him.

Maybe he can lift the hammer, maybe he did.
Maybe not.

Given who he is, it IS indeed debate-able.

Certainly, if he DID employ the level of subterfuge typical in his stories, the little bit we saw represented by the scans posted in this thread isn't much in the way of proof.

Taking such an action at face value ignores who Mephisto is and what he does.

Carver was right to raise the objection.

The All Father Odin can lift it.

Hulk.

Or anyone who can lift the unconscious body of Thor and use it as a meat-glove... Which is pretty much anybody from Rhino and upwards.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk.

Or anyone who can lift the unconscious body of Thor and use it as a meat-glove... Which is pretty much anybody from Rhino and upwards.



so butthurt.

Hulk litterally fantasizes about lifting that hammer. He's a Thor fanboy.

Originally posted by Damborgson


so butthurt.

Hulk litterally fantasizes about lifting that hammer. He's a Thor fanboy.
Hulk doesn't ever need to lift it. Thor's always kind enough to let Hulk borrow it... And knock Thor out.

Originally posted by janus77
He doesn't need to be "worthy", he just smashes Odin, rips his beard right-off his face and shoves it in Thor's mouth to shut him up. Then picks up the hammer and throws it into Eternity's bum hole... Never to be recovered.

The Hulk then wakes up and proceeds to cry for the next 12 hours when he realizes it was just a dream.

Puck, but he would find it to small for him and not bother.

Originally posted by janus77
He doesn't need to be "worthy", he just smashes Odin, rips his beard right-off his face and shoves it in Thor's mouth to shut him up. Then picks up the hammer and throws it into Eternity's bum hole... Never to be recovered.

batman prolly could.. he certainly seems worthy

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk doesn't ever need to lift it. Thor's always kind enough to let Hulk borrow it... And knock Thor out.



Thor knows Hulk needs it. Hulk's been jealous for so long it causes him pity.

Get back to me when that one dimensional character makes Galactus shart in his pants hee hee.

lol @ Janus' trolling

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol @ Janus' trolling

That's not trolling, that's the truth.

Maybe in Carver's Gamma induced wet dreams.

Carvie doesn't sleep, he's a spam bot.

*Gamma induced programming

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You mean Hercuthor and Thorcules?

Billy is a good kid but is too naive and innocent to be worthy of Mjolnir. He doesn't have a warrior's heart like either Thor or Steve. Parker's not selfish and arrogant. He has moments where those traits show themselves, but as a whole, he's a great human being. Balder is esssentially the most noble, most liked, and adored Asgardian. Literally everyone - including the animals and nature itself (barring mistletoe) - loves him. He's a formidable warrior, but he's considered to be the shining light of Asgard. And he can't lift Mjolnir by his and others own accounts.



How so? You can't prove Serpent = Odin (especially when it was shown already that Odin > Serpent) nor that their enchantments were equal.



Skyfathers aren't made equal, especially Odin and Serpent. Fraction, the guy who wrote Fear Itself, also clearly showed us that Odin was beyond the likes of the Serpent power wise in spite of him not being able to be the one to perma-kill him. lol @ "follower of Jake", though.



Because lineage, strength, and power aren't the prerequisites for lifting Mjolnir? Hercules has his moments of being a noble selfless hero, but nine times out of ten, he's a drunk womanizing braggart with questionable moments of honor. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but he's not worthy like Bill or Captain America is.

Storm just had a bastardized copy of Mjolnir not the real thing.

Billy does have a warrior's heart. Remember Achilles? He might not have the skill of one though. Thor is naive too at times. That doesn't determine worthiness IMO. So if Balder has all of Thor's best traits then why can't he lift the hammer? There must be some flaw. Maybe it's the writer's flaw?

The writer never wrote anything suggesting that the hammers were inferior in durability to Mjolnir. It's clearly not impossible, in comics, for a greater being's weapon to be equal to an inferior being's weapon. Hell I can write a character using 90% of his power to enchant a weapon while a stronger character using only 40% of his power to enchant.

So the argument of who's greater is irrelevant. Lastly, Odin was shown superior to Serpent in the past. Current day they never faced off.

Oh and you do notice how Silent piggy backs off your arguments a lot and responds for you when others reply to you. He hardly has original thought of his own. He acts like a child, trolling and ignoring what someone posted while repeating the same thing that doesn't even address the statement. Clearly he trolls, do you agree? Is he your little brother or cousin or something?

Question:
Will Mjolnir break before being lifted?
In other words, is the enchantment stronger than the durability of the hammer?

Originally posted by h1a8
Billy does have a warrior's heart. Remember Achilles? He might not have the skill of one though. Thor is naive too at times. That doesn't determine worthiness IMO. So if Balder has all of Thor's best traits then why can't he lift the hammer? There must be some flaw. Maybe it's the writer's flaw?

The writer never wrote anything suggesting that the hammers were inferior in durability to Mjolnir. It's clearly not impossible, in comics, for a greater being's weapon to be equal to an inferior being's weapon. Hell I can write a character using 90% of his power to enchant a weapon while a stronger character using only 40% of his power to enchant.

So the argument of who's greater is irrelevant. Lastly, Odin was shown superior to Serpent in the past. Current day they never faced off.

He has the Courage of Achilles, but at base, he's still a child. Now, Fawcett Era Cap and other depictions of the guy explicitly show him as being a separate entity to Billy all together and when they say "Shazam!" they essentially trade places, not unlike how Rick Jones and Mar-Vell - who clearly took that from Cap and Billy. Thor is too naive at times? He's really not outside of when it comes to Loki. If anything, he's more hot headed and ready to fight than being overly trusting and nice. Being a good person - a great person - factors into worthiness, but it's not the entirety of what makes one worthy. Balder's a great warrior, but he's more at home tending to animals and singing and being a carefree soul than he is on the battlefield. It's a healthy balance between nobility and purity of soul as well as being a hardened warrior who's willing to make the hard choices.

What? That doesn't even make sense. Fraction and Fear Itself and its tie-ins/spin offs made it clear that Odin was superior to the Serpent and the Odin Force trumped the, well, Serpent/Cul Force or whatever you want to call it. Odin could have solo'd Cul and his Worthy and was willing to do so, but the cost would have razed Earth to the ground, much like he did before.

Odin couldn't kill Cul permenentantly due to prophecy, but he could have whopped his ass at the cost of Earth suffering.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
*Gamma induced programming
Gimp - Gamma Infused Massive Posting

Or perhaps
Gay Internet Mod Pesterer?


Anyway, back on-topic. Hulk wins. You can't argue with that. You're too busy following Thor around with the smelling salts to wake him up, just in case he has another fainting spell.

Originally posted by h1a8
Question:
Will Mjolnir break before being lifted?
In other words, is the enchantment stronger than the durability of the hammer?

I would say, so yeah.

Mjolnir's been shown to be cracked or destroyed more so than the enchantment being overpowered.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Carver9 have all of the qualities to lift Mjlonir.

I agree.

Originally posted by janus77
Gimp - Gamma Infused Massive Posting

Or perhaps
Gay Internet Mod Pesterer?


Anyway, back on-topic. Hulk wins. You can't argue with that. You're too busy following Thor around with the smelling salts to wake him up, just in case he has another fainting spell.

Hulk wins? Wins what? The inability to lift Mjolnir? Are you even following this topic at all or too busy looking for moments to stroke Hulk when he's mentioned?

Your trolling skills need some work, bro.

Originally posted by janus77
You're too busy following Thor around with the smelling salts to wake him up, just in case he has another fainting spell.



It's funny 'cause it's true.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hulk wins? Wins what? The inability to lift Mjolnir? Are you even following this topic at all or too busy looking for moments to stroke Hulk when he's mentioned?

Your trolling skills need some work, bro.
Hulk wins is a perfectly valid statement to make, regardless of context.

The truth of it is absolute and transcendent for all time.


You're just a little 'sensitive' at present, that's all.

Back on topic, please.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


It's funny 'cause it's true.
indeed


It's a tough job, but we have to be cruel to be kind.... Help ease them into the transition from denial to acceptance and eventually onto the path of healing.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk wins is a perfectly valid statement to make, regardless of context.

The truth of it is absolute and transcendent for all time.


You're just a little 'sensitive' at present, that's all.

lol, well, you certainly do play the part of raging Hulk fanboy pretty well, I'll give you that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Back on topic, please.

Don't quote me.

NA

Lol...I think they missed it.

Carver, your contribution is off-topic.


Oh and Graviton could definitely lift Mjolnir.

Originally posted by SamZED
So Graviton?

I concur.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I think they missed it.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2iqhdw1.gif

horrible edit, Carver.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://i50.tinypic.com/2iqhdw1.gif

Lol.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://i50.tinypic.com/2iqhdw1.gif
the greenish jacket... PR I take it?

facepalm

Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm
Nothing to be ashamed of.






You're kind of a fan of Aquaman aren't you?

Originally posted by janus77
Nothing to be ashamed of.






You're kind of a fan of Aquaman aren't you?

So, not an Irish joke then.

That's better, I suppose.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So, not an Irish joke then.

That's better, I suppose.
Wasn't a joke, just some ... "deduction".

Originally posted by -Pr-
So, not an Irish joke then.

Surprised too, was 99% sure it was an Irish joke.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's better, I suppose.

You don't dress like Aquaman, I hope?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Surprised too, was 99% sure it was an Irish joke.



You don't dress like Aquaman, I hope?

I'm still working on the costume for Halloween. Putting together a shirt that looks like the right kind of armour is a pain, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-

I'm still working on the costume for Halloween.





For October 31, 2012?


So you will be ready for Christmas come February 3rd of next year?

Have you decided what you're going to have for breakfast yesterday?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider



For October 31, 2012?


So you will be ready for Christmas come February 3rd of next year?

Have you decided what you're going to have for breakfast yesterday?

I'm a comic book geek. Costumes are serious business, and have to be started well in advance due to costs, getting in shape etc.

I couldn't manage it this year, so next year it is.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Costumes are serious business, and have to be started well in advance due to costs, getting in shape, etc.



I can't mess with you too much, then.

I never acted on it, but, when I was in high school, I had a class in a very big building with multiple levels. I had a class on the 7th floor one hour, and a class on the 2nd floor right after it.
I seriously toyed with the idea of making a Spider-man costume after seeing this AWESOME version in a magazine that someone made of Spider-Man 2099, attaching a rope to the top stairwell and rappeling down. I was reasonably athletic by then from being on the swim team, but I couldn't quite muster the courage ...


Originally posted by -Pr-

Costumes are serious business, and have to be started well in advance due to costs, getting in shape, etc.


Can't give you any grief here, either.
I've seen images of some REALLY dedicated cosplayers now.

The following girl in this familiar outfit, for instance, nearly amazed me ... if she's not a gymnast or base cheerleader, the work she put in to look like this must have been incredible ...

I'd never wear a costume unless I could pull it off. Partially due to wanting to actually do the character justice, and partially because I really don't want to end up on one of those "cosplay gone wrong" sites. Luckily I'm the right height and build for a few of my favourite characters.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Matt Fraction wrote Odin being > Serpent and Thor being > the Worthy (barring Nul whom he still BFRed with a single blow and not being 100%).

This writer intent argument would be nice if you actually read these stories.

I disagree. He wrote Odin in the past > Serpent in the past. Even if current Odin> current Serpent then, that doesn't prove anything. A lesser being can have a more powerful or equal weapon than a more powerful being anyday of the week in comics, especially if the enchantment power comes from an outside source (like another dimension).

Originally posted by Silent Master
OF Thor isn't an examples of "less force" Of course it is. Just look at OF strength feats.


The writer didn't write one as inferior to the other in durability. You have nothing to indicate they have different durabilities.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He has the Courage of Achilles, but at base, he's still a child. Now, Fawcett Era Cap and other depictions of the guy explicitly show him as being a separate entity to Billy all together and when they say "Shazam!" they essentially trade places, not unlike how Rick Jones and Mar-Vell - who clearly took that from Cap and Billy. Thor is too naive at times? He's really not outside of when it comes to Loki. If anything, he's more hot headed and ready to fight than being overly trusting and nice. Being a good person - a great person - factors into worthiness, but it's not the entirety of what makes one worthy. Balder's a great warrior, but he's more at home tending to animals and singing and being a carefree soul than he is on the battlefield. It's a healthy balance between nobility and purity of soul as well as being a hardened warrior who's willing to make the hard choices.

What? That doesn't even make sense. Fraction and Fear Itself and its tie-ins/spin offs made it clear that Odin was superior to the Serpent and the Odin Force trumped the, well, Serpent/Cul Force or whatever you want to call it. Odin could have solo'd Cul and his Worthy and was willing to do so, but the cost would have razed Earth to the ground, much like he did before.

Odin couldn't kill Cul permenentantly due to prophecy, but he could have whopped his ass at the cost of Earth suffering.

So it's Balder non committment to being a warrior 24/7 that prevents him from being Worthy?

Again, I disagree with the logic that since Odin is superior to Serpent then Mjolnir is superior to Nul's hammer IN DURABILITY for reasons I stated already.

Originally posted by h1a8
So it's Balder non committment to being a warrior 24/7 that prevents him from being Worthy?

Again, I disagree with the logic that since Odin is superior to Serpent then Mjolnir is superior to Nul's hammer IN DURABILITY for reasons I stated already.

So, basically, you want to attribute Mjolnir's properties onto the other Worthy hammers because you feel that Cul is equal to Odin in terms of enchanted weaponry?

You can't prove Cul >= Odin, and really, all evidence points to the opposite if anything. Outside of you wanting Nul's hammer to be equal or superior to Mjolnir, there's nothing that suggest that these hammers are equal to Mjolnir or the Odin Force enchantment it's been infused with.

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course it is. Just look at OF strength feats.

Obvious troll is obvious.

He-Man should have the characteristics to.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, basically, you want to attribute Mjolnir's properties onto the other Worthy hammers because you feel that Cul is equal to Odin in terms of enchanted weaponry?

You can't prove Cul >= Odin, and really, all evidence points to the opposite if anything. Outside of you wanting Nul's hammer to be equal or superior to Mjolnir, there's nothing that suggest that these hammers are equal to Mjolnir or the Odin Force enchantment it's been infused with.

I'm not referring to overall powers Jake. I'm only referring to durability. Nowhere in the comic does it suggest that Mjolnir is more durable than Nul's hammer. They are both made of Uru and both enchanted. You keep using this faulty logic. Who's more powerful doesn't prove who has the more durable weapon. Odin didn't even make Mjolnir, he just enchanted it.

And you never answered this:

"So it's Balder non committment to being a warrior 24/7 that prevents him from being Worthy or it's writer's flaw?"

enchantments from a more powerful being don't produce more powerful weaponry? k...

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not referring to overall powers Jake. I'm only referring to durability. Nowhere in the comic does it suggest that Mjolnir is more durable than Nul's hammer. They are both made of Uru and both enchanted. You keep using this faulty logic. Who's more powerful doesn't prove who has the more durable weapon. Odin didn't even make Mjolnir, he just enchanted it.

And you never answered this:

"So it's Balder non committment to being a warrior 24/7 that prevents him from being Worthy or it's writer's flaw?"


If you want to claim that Nul's hammer is just as durable as Mjolnir, you have to provide proof.

BTW, your speculation isn't proof.

Mister Terrible

Isnt both nuls hammer and mljonir both made of uru? Therefore they are both as durable?