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I was looking at the scans of the fight between Spider-Man and Firelord and came up with his thread. These list of people has to take 25 minutes of attack from Spider-Man with these attacks like against Firelord he feels like he is fighting for his life and has nothing to lose. How much damage does he do to the list of people?

List of people
Captain America
Batman
Deadpool
Wolverine
Adamantium Sabretooth
Luke Cage
Thing
Kingpin
Black Panther
Iron Fist
Aquaman
Hercules
Thor

So how many of these guys can take herald level, Firelord-beating, blows from Spiderman?

Yeah and what level of damage would it do to them. Also Firelord was down for abit where as he was hit by Herc with one rather powerful punch and was standing up in the next panel

Is PIS on?

No

Lol. I think Jake sees where this is going...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. I think Jake sees where this is going...

I have a form of cosmic awareness.

Originally posted by golem370
No

Well, Thing, Hercules, and Thor should make it easily, assuming they're even effected based on their feats as a whole.

Possibly even Aquaman, depending on how well he's hydrated.

Herc and Thor take a nap while everyone else dies, well Victor and Logan heal and Cage calls Bendis for an amp..

Its not that Spider-Man was showing strength compared to Firelord it that the strength + his superhuman speed can do damage to herald level beings with enough time to hit them.

You think that was legit, right?

Or its one of the most famous examples of Pis

I think its possible, Spider-Man on numerous occasion show to get stronger when hurt or scared or pissed off and if his adrenaline is pumping he could do more damage then normal even to that level. Most famous should be Batman causing Darkseid any kind of damage with a kick.

Also PIS.

I think what Spider-Man could have happened.

Wow.

I'll agree a non holding back spidey could hit Thor/Herc hard enough to register in a comicbook but an average Thor has withstood far more force without showing any effect

Spider-Man did also beat the tar out of Titania during Secret Wars, a Thing/She-Hulk level brick, though personally I put that on the same level as Spidey beating Firelord (meaning, a victory well above his weight class).

Its the same to me when Flash beat someone because he uses his strength and speed

Not quite - Flash usually only pulls out his IMPs once every decade or so. Most of the time, Gorilla Grodd level characters shake them off.

It's even stated in the rules of this forum that Spider-Man Vs Firelord is PIS. It's actually where we got the idea in the first place.

But back to the thread - and this is the reason why we are bringing it up.
Without PIS, Spidey can't hurt Firelord level beings. Therefore:

Captain America - not standing
Batman - not standing
Deadpool - standing, with HF
Wolverine - standing
Adamantium Sabretooth - standing
Luke Cage - standing. Might even laugh it off
Thing - standing
Kingpin - not standing
Black Panther - not standing, based on his fight with bad chi Danny
Iron Fist - If he has a chi protective aura (which I'm assuming he does), standing.
Aquaman - standing, possibly. Bullets graze him, so..
Hercules - standing
Thor - KTFO

I like KMC but just because they made it a rule doesn't mean much its a comic book and pis or not it happened.

Originally posted by golem370
I like KMC but just because they made it a rule doesn't mean much its a comic book and pis or not it happened.

Yes, but if you honestly think that Spider-Man is capable of regularly beating up heralds, that's not going to fly very well.

There's a reason we have PIS rules. It stops people bringing up Panther V Surfer, or Batman V Grundy etc.

Spider-Man and Firelord isn't just PIS, it's inconsistent with the characters on a level that makes it more than an outlying feat.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But back to the thread - and this is the reason why we are bringing it up.
Without PIS, Spidey can't hurt Firelord level beings. Therefore:

Captain America - not standing
Batman - not standing
Deadpool - standing, with HF
Wolverine - standing
Adamantium Sabretooth - standing
Luke Cage - standing. Might even laugh it off
Thing - standing
Kingpin - not standing
Black Panther - not standing, based on his fight with bad chi Danny
Iron Fist - If he has a chi protective aura (which I'm assuming he does), standing.
Aquaman - standing, possibly. Bullets graze him, so..
Hercules - standing
Thor - KTFO

With Aquaman, it seems like his skin isn't as dense as his muscles are. I guess...

I think in the situation that he was in he did it scare of dying tired of worrying about it and pissed it was adrenaline and willpower not a regular showing. Captain America and Batman could not and would not survive imo no way.

If that's what you believe, then that's fine. It's still in the rules as PIS, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes, but if you honestly think that Spider-Man is capable of regularly beating up heralds, that's not going to fly very well.

There's a reason we have PIS rules. It stops people bringing up Panther V Surfer, or Batman V Grundy etc.

Spider-Man and Firelord isn't just PIS, it's inconsistent with the characters on a level that makes it more than an outlying feat.



With Aquaman, it seems like his skin isn't as dense as his muscles are. I guess...

Even worse. Spidey scratches him to death.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even worse. Spidey scratches him to death.



He's taken some pretty heavy piercing attacks and been fine.

Lets me put it this way 1 fire Ant attack is not not going to do much but 100s of them attack can kill things much bigger and stronger then them. If Spider-Man's strength increase with adrenaline like a normal humans can then it is possible that with the hundereds or thousands of hits he landed on Firelord would knock him out.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thor - KTFO

Originally posted by golem370
Lets me put it this way 1 fire Ant attack is not not going to do much but 100s of them attack can kill things much bigger and stronger then them. If Spider-Man's strength increase with adrenaline like a normal humans can then it is possible that with the hundereds or thousands of hits he landed on Firelord would knock him out.

So who else do you think he could beat up in a similar situation?

In your other thread, don't forget, you made a case for Surfer having the durability to handle outer space......which Firelord is well equipped to also do.

Spider-Man with all of his abilities is far more dangerous then someone who just lifts 10 tons.

Originally posted by golem370
Spider-Man with all of his abilities is far more dangerous then someone who just lifts 10 tons.

How dangerous?

Well I made the durability to limited by saying surviving in space Firelord & Silver Surfer's bodies are totally different Firelord is not made the same way.

In a fist fight anybody in the class 50 range

Then I stand by my assessment.

Spiderman also did Absorbing man like that as well. He blitzed him until he passed out. He was about to achieve the same results on Masterson Thor until Masterson went exotic. It's consistent with the character.

Spider-Man being superior to a fifty-tonner with the power cosmic under average circumstances is PIS.

Hell, Digi wrote the original rule, and he's arguably the biggest Spidey fan on these boards.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Spider-Man being superior to a fifty-tonner with the power cosmic under average circumstances is PIS.

Hell, Digi wrote the original rule, and he's arguably the biggest Spidey fan on these boards.



Digi is amazing, but I also would like to see the rationale behind Spider-man versus Firelord being considered Plot Induced as opposed to Character Induced.

For I've never seen the incredible durability people keep ascribing to Firelord. Fights Drax, he's hurt. Fights Herc, he's sent flying. Fights Airwalker and he's nearly choked to death, even though Airwalker has a hole blasted nearly through him at the time, and apparently was just resurrected or something?
Fights Hulk, and the flame hurts Hulk, but Hulk puts him down, apparently for all time, with a single punch to the stomach, the first blow I can recall Hulk landing.
Simply put, I have never seen Firelord display enough durability to make me think much was wrong with Spider-man's pushed-to-the-edge showing. WHAT. HAS. FIRELORD. DONE??

Nearly every major hitter I've seen Firelord go against has humbled Firelord. Physically, anyway. (Firelord never stops talking, from what I can tell, if he's able...)

If the idea is "Hey, well, Firelord could have produced a miniature nova blast and killed Spider-man and everyone in downtown New York with a sudden intense heat flash!"?

That's CHARACTER induced limiting.

It is Firelord's own sense of HONOR that prevents him from doing that; he says so himself, and you can't have it both ways.

If Firelord were NOT a being ridiculously caught up with notions of honor and chivalry, Spider-man's interference would not have been enough of an insult to Firelord to duel Parker man-to-man in the first place.




So, please, somebody back this up:

1) Show me that Firelord's "failure" to nuke New York and murder millions of innocents to crush Spider-man in a personal duel is NOT the character trait of a being obsessed with the idea of honor

2) Show me that Firelord has the durability in other engagements to take the focused force of numerous punches from strong metahuman opponents and be unaffected by them.
Someone other than Thor, too. ANYONE other than Thor, for the Marvel Team Up episode with Spider-man, Thor, and the Valkyrie formed some of my first comicbook reading, and in that one Thor angrily clocked Spidey all but completely unprepared with Mjolnir, flooring him, but Thor was immediately afterwards struck by the possessed Valkyrie himself, and the very next panel featured Spidey sitting up after that hard, angry, unprepared blow dazed, but really only thinking to himself "I sure wish Thor had taken a moment to ask WHY I'm fighting the Valkyrie instead of just hauling off on me like that ..."

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


I've never seen the incredible durability people keep ascribing to Firelord. Fights Drax, he's hurt. Fights Herc, he's sent flying. Fights Airwalker and he's nearly choked to death, even though Airwalker has a hole blasted nearly through him at the time, and apparently was just resurrected or something?
Fights Hulk, and the flame hurts Hulk, but Hulk puts down, apparently for all time, with a single punch to the stomach, the first blow I can recall Hulk landing.
Simply put, I have never seen Firelord display enough durability to make me think much was wrong with Spider-man's pushed-to-the-edge showing.