Pikkon vs. SSJ2 Gohan

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john allerdyce
Both were a lot more powerful than Perfect Cell.

Battle takes place on a deserted world. Who wins?

juggerman
Cell busting SSJ2 Gohan or struggling against Dabura SSJ2 Gohan?

Galan007
Goku utilized a "Super Kaio-Ken"(Super Saiyan+Kaio-Ken) against Pikkon. Since a base-level kaio-ken doubles the user's power, Goku would have technically wielded the same level of power as a SSJ2 for a split-second. However, even though Goku momentarily possessed power on that scale, Pikkon still shrugged off a full-force punch from him without so much as a scratch to show for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7HvJMFZo7Y

Pikkon's blows were also sufficient to have a noticeable effect on Janemba(a Buu-level character who had been stomping SSJ3 Goku beforehand):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_bgM6mcTjo

And as was mentioned in your last thread, Pikkon utterly trounced Perfect Cell with only 2 blows(1 good kick, then another nonchalant strike), before owning Frieza and King Cold with a casual strike each:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcEvG3rvl0
(1:46)


Anyhow, I'm assuming this is SSJ2 kid Gohan from the Cell Games. That said, if he wouldn't have been phucking around with Cell the entire time, he likely could have beaten him just as easily as Pikkon did---unless, of course, we assume that Cell still retained his resurrection/SSJ2-esque/Jesus powers after he was killed. If he did, then Pikkon would come out looking better than Gohan, imo.

Regardless, this would be a great fight! Man, I wish Pikkon were canon to the manga, he was a great character.

john allerdyce
yes, this is ss2 gohan from the cell saga.

juggerman
Pikkon utterly destroyed Super Duper Cell. Gohan wouldn't have been able to replicate that since him and Cell were about even post resurrection

Galan007
Yeah, assuming Cell retained his post-res Jesus powers in the afterlife, Pikkon tooling him with such a casual degree of ease is really quite astounding given that Cell was on par with a SSJ2. I know that showing isn't canon to the manga, but it definitely goes down as one of (if not the) best feats that took place throughout the anime.

Heck, even if that was pre-res/non-Jesus Cell, it is still an extremely uber feat for Pikkon... A SSJ2-level feat, in fact.

juggerman
You think Gohan could have smacked Super Cell down that easily?

Galan007
No way.

When Jesus Cell resurrected it is fairly evident that he was intended to have transformed into a SSJ2, and thus was on par with Gohan.

juggerman
Wouldn't that make this a stomp in Pikkon's favor then?

Galan007
If we are assuming that Cell retained his Jesus powers in the afterlife(which is certainly a logical assumption), then yes, this is a stomp in Pikkon's favor, as that means he effortlessly stomped a being that SSJ2 Gohan likely would have been hard-pressed to defeat(even without an injury.)

If we are assuming that Cell merely retained his pre-resurrection powerset in the afterlife(dunno why dying would depower him, but w/e), then the battle becomes much harder to gauge, as even in that scenario Pikkon would've still possessed SSJ2-level power.

juggerman
Has anyone ever been depowered after being sent to the afterlife?

That makes me think of another point: How strong are the "demons" and King Yemma? They have to keep order in heaven/hell but with uber powerful beings like Frieza and Cell they would have to be powerful too right? Or maybe the baddies do get depowered.....

And yes i do recall when Cell and Frieza were uprising and Goku and Pikkon had to go in but still to hold Frieza and company in check before Cell arrived might speak to how powerful the Yemma is or that they were in fact powered down

Galan007
King Yemma isn't charged with keeping order so much as judging who goes to Heaven/Hell. Either way, while I can't recall an instance that alludes to his PL, I doubt very highly that he's remotely close to Frieza or Cell's level, given that they were vastly superior to any demon(s) they encountered in hell.

Tbh, I never got the impression that characters were depowered in the afterlife. They always appear to be the same as they were in the living world.

carver9
They are not depowered. Goku should be a prime example of this along with the other Z fighters (including Vegeta). All of them during death retained their power levels.

Bentley
Originally posted by carver9
They are not depowered. Goku should be a prime example of this along with the other Z fighters (including Vegeta). All of them during death retained their power levels.

I don't know if it happens in the manga but aren't they explicitly stated to keep their bodies in order to train?

Based
Goku was gifted his body to train because he sacrificed himself. Vegeta was a break glass for emergency case.

dvampire
Gohan. Pikkon is only at an ssj level, it was a mistake in the anime that he beat Cell (he did reach ssj2 level). Very inconsistent and should be ignored.

CosmicComet
Pikkon annihilates.

Why would Cell be the only major character who suddenly gets weaker in the afterlife?

JMq9S_CHsWg
Once that music plays, Gohan would know he's phucked. Going up against a guy who's more powerful than him, and with like a millenia of more acquired skills.

Galan007
Love Pikkon's theme music. thumb up

Anyway, I agree. Goku followed Pikkon to Hell because he thought he'd need help beating Cell--- if Cell would have been depowered, Goku wouldn't have been concerned. The simple fact is that Pikkon was more powerful than Cell, and Goku was only able to compete with Pikkon because his power had also increased substantially.

Based
Originally posted by dvampire
Gohan. Pikkon is only at an ssj level, it was a mistake in the anime that he beat Cell (he did reach ssj2 level). Very inconsistent and should be ignored.

The definition of DBZ is inconsistent. However you can't just ignore the feats.

dvampire
You just can't ignore the stages of ssj either, which have 2 being always greater than 1. SSJ 2 Gohan wins this fight easy, Goku defeated Pikkon and was only an ssj (he loses to Cell aswell after he regenerates from self destruct). Huge mistake in the filler epsiode for what they did to Cell.

juggerman
But Character A's SSJ2 could be weaker than Character B's SSJ1.

Galan007
Originally posted by dvampire
You just can't ignore the stages of ssj either, which have 2 being always greater than 1. SSJ 2 Gohan wins this fight easy, Goku defeated Pikkon and was only an ssj (he loses to Cell aswell after he regenerates from self destruct). Huge mistake in the filler epsiode for what they did to Cell. This is only correct if you assume that Goku's power remained stagnant and never increased after his beatings/death during the Cell Games--- which entirely ignores the fundamental physiology of a Saiyan in general.

Damborgson
Pikon























sucks....but he does win here.

Luffygear4
PIKKON, goku could top gohan ssj2 in skill while noy pikkon, the only reason he beat pikkon was taking advantage of his ability. pikkon would beat gohan only for the fact that he has more skill in fighting.

KAIKAGE
Originally posted by john allerdyce
Both were a lot more powerful than Perfect Cell.

Battle takes place on a deserted world. Who wins? Well there was no logic in how easily pikkon beat perfect cell when super saiyan 1 goku beat him, super saiyan 2 gohan is as far above pikkon as he is perfect cell this should be an easy answer. I'll give you pikkon is full power perfect cell's equal but he isn't any where near super perfect cell or super saiyan 2 gohan's level.

KAIKAGE
Originally posted by Galan007
This is only correct if you assume that Goku's power remained stagnant and never increased after his beatings/death during the Cell Games--- which entirely ignores the fundamental physiology of a Saiyan in general. Sorry but you don't understand the saiyan physiology either, saiyans get alot stronger after recovering from NEAR death not after dying entirely.

Luffygear4
goku beat pikkon do to the notch in his tornado attack his arm makes, then he took advantage of it and won. if it were not for that goku would have lost. pikkon is greater than gohan in fighting ablilty so he would win.

Galan007
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Sorry but you don't understand the saiyan physiology either, saiyans get alot stronger after recovering from NEAR death not after dying entirely. So even though Goku received a thorough pummeling from Cell and the Cell Juniors before he officially died, you believe none of that matters and that he gained no Zenkai from said beatings in the afterlife? So you're essentially saying that Goku's power somehow reverted back to the level it was at prior to facing Cell? That's an interesting time-warp theory. I didn't know things worked like that in the spirit world--- I figured Goku would simply retain the same body he had just prior to dying. /shrug

Anyway, I don't agree with you whatsoever... But you're welcome to your own opinion, I suppose.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Sorry but you don't understand the saiyan physiology either No one does, they're cartoons.


I don't remember how much time passed in... Other World?... but he looked to be training like a motherf*cker before the tournament. And in the Funime's Buu saga, I recall something about there being a greater well of energy to draw from in the afterlife.

KAIKAGE
Originally posted by Luffygear4
goku beat pikkon do to the notch in his tornado attack his arm makes, then he took advantage of it and won. if it were not for that goku would have lost. pikkon is greater than gohan in fighting ablilty so he would win. Yes pikkon's skill is far ahead of gohan's, but that skill is nowhere near enough to make up for the sheer power difference, super saiyan 2 gohan would pull off the same thing goku did with the hyper tornado effortlessly and in an instant. Kid buu has no skill to speak of and yet kid buu was beating everyone with just his greater power, strength, speed, regeneration, endurance and instincts. It was the same with Broly, Janemba, Hirudigarn, the Fat Buu and Super Buu's base form, they didn't need much if any skill, training or experience to beat almost everyone.

Luffygear4
but if were talking current, 1, it was stated that gohan's power level in ssj2 wasnt as high as before. and after pikkons battle with goku, they both trained together. goku unlocked 2 new levels of super saiyan so we can assume that their is no more notch in ANY of his attacks, since were asuming that gohans power level is THAT much greater than pikkons. and that his power level has increased aswell. i say pikkon.

KAIKAGE
Originally posted by Luffygear4
but if were talking current, 1, it was stated that gohan's power level in ssj2 wasnt as high as before. and after pikkons battle with goku, they both trained together. goku unlocked 2 new levels of super saiyan so we can assume that their is no more notch in ANY of his attacks, since were asuming that gohans power level is THAT much greater than pikkons. and that his power level has increased aswell. i say pikkon. Yes maybe, but super saiyan 2 adult gohan's power didn't drop by that much, and I really don't think a non saiyan fighter like pikkon will have improved that much either, after all supreme kai said himself when gohan transformed to super saiyan 2 that he was still the strongest at the world tournament regardless of the power drop since his fight with cell.

Galan007
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Yes maybe, but super saiyan 2 adult gohan's power didn't drop by that much Vegeta stated that SSJ2 Gohan's power "wasn't even close" to what it was when he battled Cell:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14764011/371207.gif.html
So he actually did get a lot weaker.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
after all supreme kai said himself when gohan transformed to super saiyan 2 that he was still the strongest at the world tournament regardless of the power drop since his fight with cell. I don't think that statement is canon to the manga(I never saw it in the manga, at least.) Either way, unless Kai was talking about potential power, then Gohan was clearly not the most powerful fighter at the tournament--- SSJ3 Goku vastly surpassed him.

Furthermore, Vegeta was about to intervene in the battle and destroy Dabura himself, because he was getting irritated that Gohan was having such a tough time with him. Goku talked him out of getting involved, though:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14764084/381006.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14764013/381010.gif.html
Thus it is safe to say that SSJ2 Vegeta was more powerful than Gohan.

But like I said, Kai may have very well been talking about Gohan having more potential power than anyone else at the tournament... Which he did... Until GT, at least.
stick out tongue

Luffygear4
well, either way, vegeta did say he was nothing compared to back then, and since this is current ssj2 gohan vs pikkon... i will still have to go with pikkon.

BloodRain
Originally posted by Galan007
So even though Goku received a thorough pummeling from Cell and the Cell Juniors before he officially died, you believe none of that matters and that he gained no Zenkai from said beatings in the afterlife?
Well thanks to inconsistencies, who knows how zenkai or getting stronger works in the verse anymore?

Like in 6 days of Namek they skyrocket with training and loss-boosts, but in the 7 years of training and zenkais Goku and Vegeta were still only comparable to Gohan when he fought Cell.. shit dun make sense >->

Galan007
True the Saiyan Zenkai was very inconsistent(even during the Frieza Saga), but there's no evidence that it ever went away--- it just stopped being a key plot-point once they went SSJ. That's all I'm saying.

BloodRain
Massive jumps. Vegeta goes up 3,000 from his loss to Goku, up 220,000 with the loss to Racoom and Goku up 2,910,000 for losing to Ginyu.. If Akira didnt care then I think he just gave up besides that one plot devise for Cell..

..makes me wonder how the normal Saiyan is only at Raditz' level /tangent to thread

NemeBro
Pikkon wins, lol.

Luffygear4
pikkon wins...

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