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Who wins?

Thor

'Sleep.'

Split

Even the recently pawned THOR gets the victory

thor

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'Sleep.'

this.

but the feedback from a GAWD'S brain will cause J'onn to go into one of his Xavier-esque seizures and be ko'd.

J'onn wins for being conscious a full second longer.

MM wins.

MM shapesifts into Tutinax a beats Thor into a pulp...creepgrin

Originally posted by Estacado
MM shapesifts into Taurus and beats Thor into a pulp...creepgrin

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who wins? They both end up jobbing and losing to themselves rather than their opponent.

Thor c'mon now, how on earth would people say MM?

Originally posted by Estacado
MM shapesifts into Tutinax a beats Thor into a pulp...creepgrin

the natural predator of thors in the wild.

Thor.

And what's Nu52 Martian's best TP feat btw?

Thor. He's got his low mental showings but he's got his high ones also. And his hammer can effect intangible beings.

^Originally posted by Estacado
MM shapesifts into Tutinax a beats Thor into a pulp...creepgrin

http://www.shortcut-cigars.com/shared/cigars/mexico/at/Zapatta_prev.jpg

I'd go with MM for a slight majority.

Thor vastly more powerful and more versatile, Thor 7/10!

Its a very close match, but in the end Id say Thor more than not.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Thor vastly more powerful and more versatile, Thor 7/10!

lol. It's debatable about who's more powerful, but it's pretty ridiculous to claim he's more versatile than the MM. Even when Thor was pulling a new power out of his belt every month, the MM still had him beat in versatility. And now the most versatile Thor gets is throwing a lightning bolt.

MM absorbs the earth then one-shots him.

I'd be glad to see who has more total abilities (including Mjolnir of course) and see who the more versatile is.

We can each name ten powers at a time and see who runs out first. i won't even ask that u post the date of the last time thor used each of his powers either, or how often he has used each one. As i'm sure 95% of the ones you will post will have been used once and last used before the 90s started.

I'll start:

super strength (Thor has him beat here IMO but maybe not by much)
super speed (not even close IMO, MM dominates this category)
Super senses
martian vision
intangibility

shapeshifting
regeneration
flight
telepathy
energy projection

ok so i post 10 abilities Thor has? and so on and so on?

k

1. Super reaction time

2. Super strength

3. FTL flight speed

4. weather manip

5. energy absorption

6. energy projection

7. transmutation

8. super breath

9. Provoke visions in others

10. Trace energy

ok, well, if u can split super speed into reaction time and flight speed, I should be able to too, meaning I posted 11, and not 10, and only need to post 9 to stay even. agreed?

if i accidentily repeat one, feel free to call me out and i'll replace it, as it won't be intentional, i'm just going quick.

also if u don't agree one is a different power, or doesn't belong, feel free to contest it. let's make this friendly.

xray vision
phasing
invisibility
energy absorption
super breath

vortex breath (this is different than super breath, which is more like superman's)
telekesis
super stanima (this has actually been described as one of his powers)
extra martian senses (in addition to the standard 5 senses)

Originally posted by keiththegreat
We can each name ten powers at a time and see who runs out first. i won't even ask that u post the date of the last time thor used each of his powers either, or how often he has used each one. As i'm sure 95% of the ones you will post will have been used once and last used before the 90s started.

I'll start:

super strength (Thor has him beat here IMO but maybe not by much)
super speed (not even close IMO, MM dominates this category)
Super senses
martian vision
intangibility

shapeshifting
regeneration
flight
telepathy
energy projection


Thor powers and abilities:
Vast Super Strength
FTL/Hyperspace speed
Teleportation
Energy Absorption
Manipulate all forms of energy
Weather Manipulation
Transcend Dimensions
Earth Control
Superhuman Senses
Anti-Force
God Blast
Thermo-blast
Barriers
Energy Sensing
Matter Manipulation
Alpha Particles
Negation of Mystic Energy
Nether World Power
Electromagnetic Spectrum Manipulation
Invisibility and Intangibility
Transmigration of Souls
Life Force Absorption
Undead Lethality
Illusion Detection
Mind Resistance
Memory Alteration

^ This reminds me of a thread where you generated random powers. Is that where you got these power labels from?

Originally posted by keiththegreat
ok, well, if u can split super speed into reaction time and flight speed, I should be able to too, meaning I posted 11, and not 10, and only need to post 9 to stay even. agreed?

if i accidentily repeat one, feel free to call me out and i'll replace it, as it won't be intentional, i'm just going quick.

also if u don't agree one is a different power, or doesn't belong, feel free to contest it. let's make this friendly.

xray vision
phasing
invisibility
energy absorption
super breath

vortex breath (this is different than super breath, which is more like superman's)
telekesis
super stanima (this has actually been described as one of his powers)
extra martian senses (in addition to the standard 5 senses)

It's fine.

What's phasing exactly? is it to different from intangibility?

feel free to call on some of mine also.

anyways:

1. creating antimatter

2. bending cosmic storms (different than just bendind the weather inside of an atmosphere)
3. paralysis bolts

4. Memorization

5. gather the power of other immortals

6. basic telekenesis

7. rip magical enchantments from t heir hosts

8. blast the magnetic field of planets

9. Enchant weaponry

10. Light emission

I think it is different as his molecules seperate rather than become intangible.

Microscopic vision
Heat vision (different than the martian vision which is energy)
Psionic blast
Sonic scream
Mayavanna (This is a Martian ability that gives the receiver a gift of a reality even more powerful than our own. It grants them what they want most in the world and is reserved for those held most dear to the Martian giving it)

Illusions
"mind over matter" ability .... alters reality with thoughts
ability to see the future
molecular hypnosis
Retracing thought processes (arguably just mind reading so I'll add a bonus)

teleportation

oh lawd

1. Heat blasts (not energy, litterally concentrated heat or sometimes fire)

2. Ventriloquism

3. Summon the souls of the dead

4. temporal dislocations

5. Teleportation

6. warping space

7. using life energies as a blast

8. soul sucking

9. Antigravity blast

10. full body lightning emission

Originally posted by keiththegreat
We can each name ten powers at a time and see who runs out first. i won't even ask that u post the date of the last time thor used each of his powers either, or how often he has used each one. As i'm sure 95% of the ones you will post will have been used once and last used before the 90s started.

I'll start:

super strength (Thor has him beat here IMO but maybe not by much)
super speed (not even close IMO, MM dominates this category)
Super senses
martian vision
intangibility

shapeshifting
regeneration
flight
telepathy
energy projection

Don't forget MM can absorb the earth to amp his strength. John Ostrander's run, IIRC. Ostrander really played up MM abilities.

In the DCnU, his bio said he can manipulate energy as well. Haven't seen it yet, though.

he can grow and shrink (not sure if this should be counted as shape shifting)

nullifying gravity fields

ability to see probabilities in future events (not the same as seeing the future, though I"m not sure why he'd even use this when he can use the other, better ability)

Water walking (again, this could be lumped in with flight, so I'll add extra powers)

shields

create telepathic illusions in the mind

infrared vision

Electro-Magnetic Spectrum Vision

mind scans

mind wipes

astral possession

induce sleep

I'll count as previous post as 10 as some are dubious in that they could be repeats depending on ur definition

so I have 40 powers right now altogether.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
he can grow and shrink (not sure if this should be counted as shape shifting)

nullifying gravity fields

ability to see probabilities in future events (not the same as seeing the future, though I"m not sure why he'd even use this when he can use the other, better ability)

Water walking (again, this could be lumped in with flight, so I'll add extra powers)

shields

create telepathic illusions in the mind

infrared vision

Electro-Magnetic Spectrum Vision

mind scans

mind wipes

astral possession

induce sleep

yeesh MM has like 30 different types of vision lol.

1. Minor molecule manipulation

2. Magnetism

3. offensive whirlwinds (not just shields)

4. target homing Mjolnir throws

5. Travel Mjolnir shielding (he could be carrying a human with him and an intangible shield would allow both to go into space as long he's holding onto Mjolnir)

6. Reality ripping (he can tear reality and have it suck his opponents through)

7. finger tip lightning

8. soul counter (he was able to cause Mephisto to recoil for trying to tamper with his soul)

9. dispel illusions

10. harm intangible beings

yep I have 40 also now then

Originally posted by keiththegreat
lol. It's debatable about who's more powerful, but it's pretty ridiculous to claim he's more versatile than the MM. Even when Thor was pulling a new power out of his belt every month, the MM still had him beat in versatility. And now the most versatile Thor gets is throwing a lightning bolt.

It's really not debatable who's more powerful.

Lol? Classic Thor's versatility shit's on John. Invisibility, telepathy, intangibility, heat vision, shape shifting plus the standard flying brick powers. Mjolnir can do a hell of a lot more than that.

Thor's more powerful.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
I think it is different as his molecules seperate rather than become intangible.

Microscopic vision
Heat vision (different than the martian vision which is energy)
Psionic blast
Sonic scream
Mayavanna (This is a Martian ability that gives the receiver a gift of a reality even more powerful than our own. It grants them what they want most in the world and is reserved for those held most dear to the Martian giving it)

Illusions
"mind over matter" ability .... alters reality with thoughts
ability to see the future
molecular hypnosis
Retracing thought processes (arguably just mind reading so I'll add a bonus)

teleportation

Lol, you took Telepathic powers and broke it down into like multiple shit (Mind Reading, Illusion creating, Psionic blasts etc.).

Thor: Ability to summon lightning, snow, rain, thunder, cause earthquakes, typhoons, control and bind cosmic storms from across the cosmos, channel lightning to rejuvenate himself etc. Eight different abilities just from the ability to control the weather and I'm not even trying that hard.

Please don't insult our intelligence with this shit.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's really not debatable who's more powerful.

Lol? Classic Thor's versatility shit's on John. Invisibility, telepathy, intangibility, heat vision, shape shifting plus the standard flying brick powers. Mjolnir can do a hell of a lot more than that.

The problem you have is the last time Thor used 95% of his vast array of powers was 20 years ago or more, and most of them were used once. Like I said, the most versatile he gets now is shooting a lightning bolt.

And yeah, it is debatable, considering there's about 100 threads on various vs websites devoted to thor vs MMH fights.

But if u think it's a clear cut fact between two fictional characters, in two different universes who is more powerful, well go right ahead and believe that, sport.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
ok, well, if u can split super speed into reaction time and flight speed, I should be able to too, meaning I posted 11, and not 10, and only need to post 9 to stay even. agreed?

if i accidentily repeat one, feel free to call me out and i'll replace it, as it won't be intentional, i'm just going quick.

also if u don't agree one is a different power, or doesn't belong, feel free to contest it. let's make this friendly.

xray vision
phasing
invisibility
energy absorption
super breath

vortex breath (this is different than super breath, which is more like superman's)
telekesis
super stanima (this has actually been described as one of his powers)
extra martian senses (in addition to the standard 5 senses)

Extra martian senses and X-ray vision listed? Lol, really kind of stretching it here.

I'm well aware of some of his posts. But I'm more than capable of going on and on. So I'll still list even more off than that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, you took Telepathic powers and broke it down into like multiple shit (Mind Reading, Illusion creating, Psionic blasts etc.).

Thor: Ability to summon lightning, snow, rain, thunder, cause earthquakes, typhoons, control and bind cosmic storms from across the cosmos, channel lightning to rejuvenate himself etc. Eight different abilities just from the ability to control the weather and I'm not even trying that hard.

Please don't insult our intelligence with this shit.

Hence me posting 12-13 powers instead of ten each time, champ. like I guess I'm hurting ur feelings considering how pissy u are about this. I told damosborgan if he had a problem with any powers i posted, i'd add more. we've been pretty civil, its only when thorbags like u and ODG join in it gets to a pissing contest and insults. chill out bro, these characters aren't real.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Extra martian senses and X-ray vision listed? Lol, really kind of stretching it here.

there's actually 9 maritan senses, i counted them as one power.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
he can grow and shrink (not sure if this should be counted as shape shifting)

nullifying gravity fields

ability to see probabilities in future events (not the same as seeing the future, though I"m not sure why he'd even use this when he can use the other, better ability)

Water walking (again, this could be lumped in with flight, so I'll add extra powers)

shields

create telepathic illusions in the mind

infrared vision

Electro-Magnetic Spectrum Vision

mind scans

mind wipes

astral possession

induce sleep



Did you really just list water walking as a power? He can fly.

Holy shit man, how many times are you going to repeat shit? Mind scans, mind swipes, forcing people to sleep etc. that all falls under Telepathy.

Electro-Magnetic Spectrum Vision, Infared Vision etc. all falls under extra Martian Senses.

What the hell is "nullifying gravity fields"? Are you referring tot he ability to fly?

Also what are shields?

Using this line of logic, I'd need a few hours to list all of Thor's abilities. Mjolnir's ability to manipulate matter/energy alone will fill up a post.

I would say MM wins a slight majority.
He has the right tools to beat Thor.
Thor has too many options while each is too slow. Having too many options is a negative since it's hard to decide which to use in real battle time. MM has some very basic and effective options.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
The problem you have is the last time Thor used 95% of his vast array of powers was 20 years ago or more, and most of them were used once. Like I said, the most versatile he gets now is shooting a lightning bolt.

And yeah, it is debatable, considering there's about 100 threads on various vs websites devoted to thor vs MMH fights.

But if u think it's a clear cut fact between two fictional characters, in two different universes who is more powerful, well go right ahead and believe that, sport.

Current Thor might not be as consistently versatile but that's a moot point. His previous history does not disappear. To make matters worse you specifically said that John was always more versatile.

Also, your ignorance is showing. Thor has done some very exotic things in the last decade.

No, it's really not. Maybe if you count Fenris but other than that? Lol, Thor is clearly more powerful.

I don't even know how to respond to that. Thor and Bane are from two different fictional Universes, I guess it's not clear cut who's more powerful between those two either?

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Hence me posting 12-13 powers instead of ten each time, champ. like I guess I'm hurting ur feelings considering how pissy u are about this. I told damosborgan if he had a problem with any powers i posted, i'd add more. we've been pretty civil, its only when thorbags like u and ODG join in it gets to a pissing contest and insults. chill out bro, these characters aren't real.

Please don't flatter yourself. A much greater quality of posters over the years have tried and failed to hurt my feelings.

That doesn't solve anything. You keep listing derivatives of the same ability as a different power which is honestly kind of silly. I can do the same if you want, but Thor will win either way.

Thorbags? Now look who's getting "pissy".

keith is hilarious.

Originally posted by Mindset
keith is hilarious.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus



Merry xmas, buddy:




http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/S5sLZ6lrevI/AAAAAAAAMr4/N-tJSI9rj4c/s1600/Hulk+-+Let+the+Battle+Begin+1+-+hulkvsthor.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2403646-2_super.png



http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir221-LightningPrinceofPower4.jpg

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/b/50/4bac70b71a4d0/detail.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsUlik24.jpg

http://www.mightythorlibrary.com/superhero-library/Img/Gallery/rulk-defeats-thor-wallpaper-l.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60228/1335176-the_incredible_hulk_vs_thor_7_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2438059-1_super.png

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103405/2461234-zone_empire_021.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2523521-1_super.png

http://s19.postimage.org/f95ykg0s3/image.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/vyDnP.jpg

^ wow lol
Originally posted by h1a8
Having too many options is a negative since it's hard to decide which to use in real battle time. in that case, hulk for sky-father

Keith, stay on topic.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
The problem you have is the last time Thor used 95% of his vast array of powers was 20 years ago or more, and most of them were used once. The problem you have is that you don't realize that within the last 20 years, Thor's used energy manipulation, energy absorption, weather control (both earthly and cosmic in nature), Gaea-related earth powers, baffling prayer-related rejuvenation (in his fight with Glory), teleportation, spirit summoning (Cap), immortal resurrection, transmutation, EMPs (localized and worldwide), space ventriloquism, all-tongue universal language, intangible artifact deflection (Disir swords), energy signature tracking, forcefields, prayer-related cosmic senses, and more.

Actually... an even worse problem you have is that this above list didn't just happen in the last 20 years. Everything I just listed all happened in the last 5 years since his return under J. Michael Straczynski. If I actually bothered to check back an entire 20 years? Whew.

You have utterly underestimated what Thor's catalogue of powers has been capable of if you think setting an arbitrary 20 year limit wipes out 95% of Thor's versatility. I'd say that betrays a sense of ignorance. I don't know if it's purposeful or accidental. But it's not flattering.

If Xavier can put Thor to sleep, MM can easily as well. Xavier needs augmentation to do some of the things MM has done on his own with his mind.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
If Xavier can put Thor to sleep, MM can easily as well. Xavier needs augmentation to do some of the things MM has done on his own with his mind. Nope.

Keith.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/UnlimitedAccess3p05_zps669f0087.jpg

Seriously though..

MM's a pretty underrated character.. Physical stats comparable to Superman, and a boatload of useful powers like phase shifting, invisibility, shapeshifting weapons for bludgeoning and piercing damage (He pierced Etrigan the Demon's chest, although it didn't hurt him because of a Stonehenge amp.), shapeshifting limbs, armoring himself up, ability to tank Superman + hits like Plastic Man could, TK and TP.. He's one of DC's most powerful, versatile characters. In terms of sheer power, Thor may be more powerful, but MM certainly has the stuff to beat Thor before he can pull out the big guns. And, he does have a speed advantage over Thor.

IMO, he takes the majority.

hmm. guess I won?

MM is getting both underrated and overrated in this thread.

He's a solid mid-herald, no more, no less.

IMO Statuses mean nothing since it would imply absolute ABC logic. Each battle is unique and with different combinations of tools and styles of fighting. A character of a lower status can definitely beat a character of a higher status if the combination is right.
Thor definitely is more powerful but I think he loses here for a slight majority.

Not talking about ABC logic at all.

Originally posted by ODG
The problem you have is that you don't realize that within the last 20 years, Thor's used energy manipulation, energy absorption, weather control (both earthly and cosmic in nature), Gaea-related earth powers, baffling prayer-related rejuvenation (in his fight with Glory), teleportation, spirit summoning (Cap), immortal resurrection, transmutation, EMPs (localized and worldwide), space ventriloquism, all-tongue universal language, intangible artifact deflection (Disir swords), energy signature tracking, forcefields, prayer-related cosmic senses, and more.

Actually... an even worse problem you have is that this above list didn't just happen in the last 20 years. Everything I just listed all happened in the last 5 years since his return under J. Michael Straczynski. If I actually bothered to check back an entire 20 years? Whew.

You have utterly underestimated what Thor's catalogue of powers has been capable of if you think setting an arbitrary 20 year limit wipes out 95% of Thor's versatility. I'd say that betrays a sense of ignorance. I don't know if it's purposeful or accidental. But it's not flattering.
I'd say that he's the product of reading too much Erik and Citizenbane on comicvine.

I don't know much about Eric, but Citizenbane is a decent debater.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I'd say that he's the product of reading too much Erik and Citizenbane on comicvine.

You've put a target on his head. I'll make him see the error of his ways.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I'd say that he's the product of reading too much Erik and Citizenbane on comicvine.

People like that make me glad I don't mod on that site.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You've put a target on his head. I'll make him see the error of his ways.
Done that at least twice in the past(the second time I even asked you or Rage to go on comicvine and shut that phaggot up for good).

Originally posted by Golgo13
I don't know much about Eric, but Citizenbane is a decent debater.
He's a novice who would get torn apart should he ever register either here or on herochat, as Delta1938 would testify. He has decent comic book knowledge but that in itself hardly proves his debating skill(which is consistently put to test only against the average comicvine poster).

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Done that at least twice in the past(the second time I even asked you or Rage to go on comicvine and shut that phaggot up for good).

I did go to Comicvine actually lol i argued with citizenbane. He's nothing. Pissed some people off to, but felt like it was pretty obvious that quality drops on there. Goku is > Marvel and Dc Universe and apparently Superman has skyfather level time manipulation.

Did Abhi come from there?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He's a novice who would get torn apart should he ever register either here or on herochat, as Delta1938 would testify. He has decent comic book knowledge but that in itself hardly proves his debating skill(which is consistently put to test only against the average comicvine poster).

Herochat is nowhere near as good as it used to be. Most of the really good posters are gone, sadly.

------

Sorry, meant to say all star superman has skyfather time manipulation. And it's the reason he pulls a solid majority against King Thor.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Did Abhi come from there?
You hurt me pr.

I'm kmc original.

I was thinking you were implying statuses as relevance to who would win in this fight or any fight in general. I believe that being a solid mid herald doesn't mean you can't beat a certain high herald for a slight majority.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You hurt me pr.

I'm kmc original.

Merry Christmas.

Originally posted by h1a8
I was thinking you were implying statuses as relevance to who would win in this fight or any fight in general. I believe that being a solid mid herald doesn't mean you can't beat a certain high herald for a slight majority.

Usually it does, though.

After all, if J'onn were truly a peer of people like Thor, or Superman, or any other high herald, he'd be a high herald himself instead of, for the most part, wasted potential.

MM's high end feats definitely would be high end or trans.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Merry Christmas.



Usually it does, though.

After all, if J'onn were truly a peer of people like Thor, or Superman, or any other high herald, he'd be a high herald himself instead of, for the most part, wasted potential.
Merry Christmas to you too despite what you just did.

sneerOriginally posted by Golgo13
MM's high end feats definitely would be high end or trans.
No.

Starbreaker once said that MM's power exceeds even the MOS. U mad.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Starbreaker once said that MM's power exceeds even the MOS. U mad.

Words < Feats.

MM has some very impressive TP under his belt, though. Even Superman recognizes his power and has even faced the whole league with his shapeshifting power in Ostrander's series.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Herochat is nowhere near as good as it used to be. Most of the really good posters are gone, sadly.
Don't know about that but he's consistently denounced KMC, without ever having posted on these forums. I'd say the ***'s too chicken to register here because he knows he wouldn't last 2 seconds.
Originally posted by Damborgson
I did go to Comicvine actually lol i argued with citizenbane. He's nothing. Pissed some people off to, but felt like it was pretty obvious that quality drops on there. Goku is > Marvel and Dc Universe and apparently Superman has skyfather level time manipulation.
If someone like carver can engage him in an extended debate, then that's pretty telling of his "debating skills".

And yeah, the quality of posters is extremely low there. In fact they're slowly beginning to become a cheap knock-off of this battleboard with their recent "Challenge a Viner" threads which is clearly a borrowed concept from our Battlezone Forums. Just goes to show how unoriginal and desperate for ideas the management is on that site.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Starbreaker once said that MM's power exceeds even the MOS. U mad.
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/mmnosuperman.jpg

MM crushes puny Kryptonian.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/MM_zpsfaecbf05.png

Originally posted by Golgo13
MM has some very impressive TP under his belt, though. Even Superman recognizes his power and has even faced the whole league with his shapeshifting power in Ostrander's series.

And?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Did Abhi come from there?
Nope. I did though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
And?

I'd put him at a solid high herald, IMO.

Originally posted by Golgo13
MM crushes puny Kryptonian.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/MM_zpsfaecbf05.png
Yeah, beating blue beetle and booster gold means he can totally beat superman.
Lulz.Originally posted by Golgo13
I'd put him at a solid high herald, IMO.
No.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I'd put him at a solid high herald, IMO.

That's pushing it, tbh.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's pushing it, tbh.

If Superman called him the most powerful being on earth, I think I'll trust him with that. I mean getting into Mageddon's head, pulling the Spectre into the astral plane, mind wiping the JLA, etc... I mean he definitely has his low feats, but that's more of the writer being incompetent.

Originally posted by Golgo13
If Superman called him the most powerful being on earth, I think I'll trust him with that. I mean getting into Mageddon's head, pulling the Spectre into the astral plane, mind wiping the JLA, etc... I mean he definitely has his low feats, but that's more of the writer being incompetent.
Superman has also said guy gardner warrior hits harder than doomsday, doesn't makes it true. Also trial by fire was an excuse fest for j'onn by Kelly.

Originally posted by -Pr-
MM is getting both underrated and overrated in this thread.

He's a solid mid-herald, no more, no less.

Meh, who needs labels? His feats and powers speak for themselves. ^_^

On average, he's a step below Superman and Captain Marvel (Cap possessed by the Grey Man edged him out in an old fashioned slugfest, J'onn was taking everything he could handle and somehow keeping his feet..)

But the difference is made up by top end TP (Just by way of example,oOn more then one occasion, he's TPed every mind on Earth, a feat someone even on Xaviers level normally needs Cerebro for..), and he could switch off brains just fine as well (A fact which was lampshaded in World War III vs Black Adam, when MM told him it was his choice to allow him the ability to think, and thus apply his willpower against his control)

These points alone make him capable of hanging with the big boys, and that's not touching on his other powers like being able to turn invisible, phase shift through attacks or embed limbs in people bodies, engulf foes, create stabby weapons that can pierce someone as durable as Etrigan the Demon or Kanto (Kanto is durable enough for the Firepits to not affect him, while a Byrne era Superman was pretty messed up by them at the time..)

Recognizing his history, and how his abilities can allow him to hold his own with stronger, more durable, or even faster characters isn't overrating him, it's giving him credit where it's due.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has also said guy gardner warrior hits harder than doomsday, doesn't makes it true. Also trial by fire was an excuse fest for j'onn by Kelly.

Like Loeb is with the Hulk?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Like Loeb is with the Hulk?
Worse.Originally posted by cdtm
Meh, who needs labels? His feats and powers speak for themselves. ^_^

On average, he's a step below Superman and Captain Marvel (Cap possessed by the Grey Man edged him out in an old fashioned slugfest, J'onn was taking everything he could handle and somehow keeping his feet..)

But the difference is made up by top end TP (Just by way of example,oOn more then one occasion, he's TPed every mind on Earth, a feat someone even on Xaviers level normally needs Cerebro for..), and he could switch off brains just fine as well (A fact which was lampshaded in World War III vs Black Adam, when MM told him it was his choice to allow him the ability to think, and thus apply his willpower against his control)

These points alone make him capable of hanging with the big boys, and that's not touching on his other powers like being able to turn invisible, phase shift through attacks or embed limbs in people bodies, engulf foes, create stabby weapons that can pierce someone as durable as Etrigan the Demon or Kanto (Kanto is durable enough for the Firepits to not affect him, while a Byrne era Superman was pretty messed up by them at the time..)

Recognizing his history, and how his abilities can allow him to hold his own with stronger, more durable, or even faster characters isn't overrating him, it's giving him credit where it's due.
He's below wonder woman in strength too, supergirl choked him out with one hand.

Even under Ostrander, he wasn't a physical powerhouse.

But he still could have used his power to avoid being choked out by moving his throat or something weird (Ostrander had him apply his powers in, frankly, disturbing ways sometimes. He even had him move his SOUL to his hand, before losing the rest of his body.. )

Originally posted by -Pr-
Merry Christmas.



Usually it does, though.

After all, if J'onn were truly a peer of people like Thor, or Superman, or any other high herald, he'd be a high herald himself instead of, for the most part, wasted potential. Usually doesn't mean all the time, which is my point. But I do agree with 'usually'.

Originally posted by -Pr-
MM is getting both underrated and overrated in this thread.

He's a solid mid-herald, no more, no less.

pretty much what I was thinking, Thor is more powerful not saying MM won't make Odinson work for it. Thor wins the vast majority!!

Originally posted by cdtm
Even under Ostrander, he wasn't a physical powerhouse.

But he still could have used his power to avoid being choked out by moving his throat or something weird (Ostrander had him apply his powers in, frankly, disturbing ways sometimes. He even had him move his SOUL to his hand, before losing the rest of his body.. )

Didn't he fend off the league through shapeshifting? I'll find the scans.

Originally posted by h1a8
Usually doesn't mean all the time, which is my point. But I do agree with 'usually'.

I never said all the time, though. Just that it applied in this instance.

Originally posted by Golgo13
If Superman called him the most powerful being on earth, I think I'll trust him with that. I mean getting into Mageddon's head, pulling the Spectre into the astral plane, mind wiping the JLA, etc... I mean he definitely has his low feats, but that's more of the writer being incompetent.

nobody's saying he's not impressive. just that people shouldn't get carried away, is all.

Originally posted by cdtm
Meh, who needs labels? His feats and powers speak for themselves. ^_^

On average, he's a step below Superman and Captain Marvel (Cap possessed by the Grey Man edged him out in an old fashioned slugfest, J'onn was taking everything he could handle and somehow keeping his feet..)

But the difference is made up by top end TP (Just by way of example,oOn more then one occasion, he's TPed every mind on Earth, a feat someone even on Xaviers level normally needs Cerebro for..), and he could switch off brains just fine as well (A fact which was lampshaded in World War III vs Black Adam, when MM told him it was his choice to allow him the ability to think, and thus apply his willpower against his control)

These points alone make him capable of hanging with the big boys, and that's not touching on his other powers like being able to turn invisible, phase shift through attacks or embed limbs in people bodies, engulf foes, create stabby weapons that can pierce someone as durable as Etrigan the Demon or Kanto (Kanto is durable enough for the Firepits to not affect him, while a Byrne era Superman was pretty messed up by them at the time..)

Recognizing his history, and how his abilities can allow him to hold his own with stronger, more durable, or even faster characters isn't overrating him, it's giving him credit where it's due.

nobody's trying to take credit from him, like I said.

Calling MM wasted potential is a little harsh, considering he's only briefly had his own series, spent a good portion of his post crisis career in Giffen's humor league, and spent most of the rest on a team where he has to share time with other characters.

Team showings tend to be harsh even on A listers like Thor and Superman because of those constraints.

Originally posted by cdtm
Calling MM wasted potential is a little harsh, considering he's only briefly had his own series, spent a good portion of his post crisis career in Giffen's humor league, and spent most of the rest on a team where he has to share time with other characters.

Team showings tend to be harsh even on A listers like Thor and Superman because of those constraints.

the problem with J'onn, though, is that he could be a lot more than he is. He's capable of a lot more than we've seen from him, and that's why I say he's wasted potential.

It doesn't mean he's a bad character; just that he should be more.

Originally posted by -Pr-
People like that make me glad I don't mod on that site.
We have quan and carter though...mmm

Janithor vs. Martian Manjobber, battle of the biggest jobbers after Rhino and Gargan Venom.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Janithor vs. Martian Manjobber, battle of the biggest jobbers after Rhino and Gargan Venom.

Originally posted by ODG
^ This reminds me of a thread where you generated random powers. Is that where you got these power labels from?
Astner's thread .

Originally posted by the Darkone
pretty much what I was thinking, Thor is more powerful not saying MM won't make Odinson work for it. Thor wins the vast majority!!

It's possible, but highly unlikely, that Thor won't make Jonn work for it.
I see Thor having some serious problems with phasing, speed, invisibility, and tp.
MM is not going to sit there and allow Thor to do what he wants.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's possible, but highly unlikely, that Thor won't make Jonn work for it.
I see Thor having some serious problems with phasing, speed, invisibility, and tp.
MM is not going to sit there and allow Thor to do what he wants. Not sure if serious...

Originally posted by Zack Fair
They both end up jobbing and losing to themselves rather than their opponent. Thread should have ended after this. But, since it didn't...

It would be a much more interesting fight, I think, than Thor vs Superman: not just two guys punching the hell out of each other. Thor and Martian Manhunter both have great power and versatility, and in the beginning, I could see MM winning. Thor's gonna have to switch to less brawling and more exotic measures if he wants to win. If he does...then my gut leans toward Thor, if only because I don't see MM as one of the top three, of which Thor is one.

There's no way MM can beat Thor, it's not in the cards for him

well said. Now let's get you out of that superman avi and find you a nice Thor one.

Originally posted by Mindship
Thread should have ended after this. But, since it didn't...

It would be a much more interesting fight, I think, than Thor vs Superman: not just two guys punching the hell out of each other. Thor and Martian Manhunter both have great power and versatility, and in the beginning, I could see MM winning. Thor's gonna have to switch to less brawling and more exotic measures if he wants to win. If he does...then my gut leans toward Thor, if only because I don't see MM as one of the top three, of which Thor is one.

There is no way Supes could ever tag MM, if he plays it smart. Intangibility and all. From the way things look, Johns will make MM a powerhouse. Just like Ostrander.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/59615/2302968-justiceleague_8_thegroup_022_large.jpg

Originally posted by Damborgson
well said. Now let's get you out of that superman avi and find you a nice Thor one.

But it's not superman! It's Supraman. Look closer

Thor might be more versatile, in terms of having more powers, but most have been used once and like someone stated they mostly are from a long time ago. Like Thor controlling magnetism. I open to the possibility that I'm wrong here, but I don't think he's used that ability for a LONG time. I'd question whether the current marvel writing and editorial staff even thinks he's still has that power. Also how many times as he shrinks someone, and when was the last time he did so?

I think the mm has a big edge here with his telepathy, speed and regen advantage. I'll go mm 5.5/10.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Not sure if serious... Why not?
I mean Thor is basically slow when it comes to executing exotic shit. And much hasn't been done in a long time from him.
It's not very practical for him in a forum situation when fighting a fast character. In a comic, characters sit there and let Thor talk, summon, pray, etc. abilities in order for the plot to exist. In canon Thor had serious problems seeing invisible beings and with tp. Yes Thor has shown resistance, but do we choose tp resistance over the times he didn't show it? If anything I would like to compromise and say he has half resistance (MM will affect him but not by alot). The same goes for Superman's magic vulnerability.

Originally posted by Golgo13
There is no way Supes could ever tag MM, if he plays it smart. Intangibility and all. From the way things look, Johns will make MM a powerhouse. Just like Ostrander.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/59615/2302968-justiceleague_8_thegroup_022_large.jpg

Superman can tag him even if he plays it smart.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman can tag him even if he plays it smart.

We'll see once Trinity War starts.

Superman tagged the Flash. He's also read every medical book in minutes...and not on a kindle, he had to find each one, and flip through the pages.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Superman tagged the Flash. He's also read every medical book in minutes...and not on a kindle, he had to find each one, and flip through the pages.

Superman is fast, but it's not like MM can't shapeshift and turn intangible to avoid his attacks. He's done it before. Not to mention read his mind and anticipate his every move.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Superman is fast, but it's not like MM can't shapeshift and turn intangible to avoid his attacks. He's done it before. Not to mention read his mind and anticipate his every move.

Except that J'onn's intangibility hasn't been shown to be fool-proof, and his telepathy straight up doesn't work on Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman can tag him even if he plays it smart.

Not impossible, but there's a few examples to consider:


Massacre.

He was just a one dimensional brick with a neural impulse reading gimmick, and Superman struggled to touch him.

Energy Form eradicator had a similar mind reading trick, but also had intangibility and routinely slipped attacks by letting Superman phase through him.

And Ostrander also wrote MM avoiding a fight with punchy Superman by keeping intangible, and letting him fly through him.

A smartly written MM should, at the very least, use a few of his basic powers like TP and intangibility to avoid attacks..

Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that J'onn's intangibility hasn't been shown to be fool-proof, and his telepathy straight up doesn't work on Superman.

It's shown he can subconsciously block TP's probes when he's in Clark Kent form, but it works when he's playing communications hub for the JLA.

Supermans history supports that he has tp resistance, considering his rogues gallery includes characters like The Union and Milton Fine Brainiac, but he's never been immune, and has has his surface thoughts read before.

And besides, it was Ostrander himself that established Supermans resistance to MM while in Clark Kent disguise, yet also had MM surface read his thoughts and go intangible to avoid a charge.

How would Thor kill J'onn though? How would anyone physically kill him without fire? He can regenerate from a drop of blood!

Punching him in the face is surprisingly effective

MM phases through Thors punch and Thor himself. Thor summons a lightning which sets his own cape on fire. MM screams and passes out.