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Sids speedblitzes as fast as he kills Kit Fisto.

Originally posted by Based
Sids speedblitzes as fast as he kills Kit Fisto.

You mean The Emperor, for all his inherent power, has relatively slow reflexes?

Hmm..

Originally posted by Based
Sids speedblitzes as fast as he kills Kit Fisto.
Sidious is terminated in a flash of light. Happy?

-----------------------

It shall be noted that these two Sith Lords are unique in comparison to others because both gained the ability to survive without the need of physical bodies. However, Vitiate accomplished highest degree of immortality among the Sith in the whole mythos. Vitiate not just made his life everlasting but also possessed the ability to perform offensive moves during essence phase itself. In short, Vitiate was extremely dangerous even in essence phase. In contrast, palpatine was not dangerous in essence phase.

Combat history wise, Palpatine's greatest feats are with a lightsaber and Vitiate's greatest feats are with the Force.

Vitiate's strategy is to prevent a lightsaber wielding opponent from getting close to him and wear such an opponent down with his overwhelming array of Force powers.

Palpatine's strategy is to blitz an opponent with his lightsaber early on to either accomplish a kill or gain upperhand. However, this strategy can work if Palpatine is very close to the opponent.

DE incarnation of Palpatine pack a major weakness and also advantage. Major weakness is that this incarnation, if in clone body, will be extremely vulnerable against deadly dark side powers. Clone body can be easily destroyed by such powers. Major advantage is the ability of this incarnation to summon a Force Storm which can destroy any mortal being/materialistic object.

So both DE Palpatine and Vitiate are capable of destroying each other's bodies.

However, Vitiate's essence also packs offensive ability and by virtue of this advantage, it is possible that his essence can possibly overcome Sidious's essence (which lacks any offensive ability). Though this aspect of Star Wars isn't much explored.

Furthermore, I have yet to touch the subject of telepathic abilities. Smart people can do the math.

DE Sids demolishes Vitiate.

For all of Vitiate's uberness, I feel that even RotS Sids would win a majority in all-out against him.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
DE Sids demolishes Vitiate.

For all of Vitiate's uberness, I feel that even RotS Sids would win a majority in all-out against him.
Fanboyistic paddling won't do. Read what I mentioned above.

ROTS Sids can do jack against Vitiate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fanboyistic paddling won't do.
So what are you doing here?

Originally posted by axel_jovan
So what are you doing here?
I presented a reasonable picture of both; not fanboyist jabs.

Have you even bothered to read what I wrote below that small line in my above post?

Originally posted by axel_jovan
So what are you doing here?

Originally posted by axel_jovan
DE Sids demolishes Vitiate.

For all of Vitiate's uberness, I feel that even RotS Sids would win a majority in all-out against him. LOL. Good one

Originally posted by ares834

Another one.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It shall be noted that these two Sith Lords are unique in comparison to others because both gained the ability to survive without the need of physical bodies. However, Vitiate accomplished highest degree of immortality among the Sith in the whole mythos. Vitiate not just made his life everlasting but also possessed the ability to perform offensive moves during essence phase itself. In short, Vitiate was extremely dangerous even in essence phase. In contrast, palpatine was not dangerous in essence phase.

Combat history wise, Palpatine's greatest feats are with a lightsaber and Vitiate's greatest feats are with the Force.

Vitiate's strategy is to prevent a lightsaber wielding opponent from getting close to him and wear such an opponent down with his overwhelming array of Force powers.

Palpatine's strategy is to blitz an opponent with his lightsaber early on to either accomplish a kill or gain upperhand. However, this strategy can work if Palpatine is very close to the opponent.

DE incarnation of Palpatine pack a major weakness and also advantage. Major weakness is that this incarnation, if in clone body, will be extremely vulnerable against deadly dark side powers. Clone body can be easily destroyed by such powers. Major advantage is the ability of this incarnation to summon a Force Storm which can destroy any mortal being/materialistic object.

So both DE Palpatine and Vitiate are capable of destroying each other's bodies.

However, Vitiate's essence also packs offensive ability and by virtue of this advantage, it is possible that his essence can possibly overcome Sidious's essence (which lacks any offensive ability). Though this aspect of Star Wars isn't much explored.

Furthermore, I have yet to touch the subject of telepathic abilities. Smart people can do the math.

Have any answer for this?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Have any answer for this?

Yeah, who says a clone body is easier to destroy than a normal body??

Clones more rapidly decay under dark side effects than do normal bodies. But I'm unaware of any evidence that suggests that they are more vulnerable to attack.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Clones more rapidly decay under dark side effects than do normal bodies. But I'm unaware of any evidence that suggests that they are more vulnerable to attack.

They are "inferior" in every way so logic dictates that not only is the potency of their attacks inferior, but so is their defense.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
So what are you doing here?





@ Jadams


Where does it say that clones have inferior attack?

Originally posted by -kV-




@ Jadams


Where does it say that clones have inferior attack?

What I am saying is the clones are " a step removed from the natural process" as stated in the sources. What this means is they're more susceptible to the corruption of the dark side and as such, can't go all out like a natural born force user.

Originally posted by jadams3928
What I am saying is the clones are " a step removed from the natural process" as stated in the sources. What this means is they're more susceptible to the corruption of the dark side and as such, can't go all out like a natural born force user.

Well, that would answer my age-old query of why didn't Palpatine (or any other applicable Sith) just create an army of cloned Dark Jedi, etc.

Always wondered about that, but at least they came up with a decent answer to the question.

Originally posted by Rookwood
You mean The Emperor, for all his inherent power, has relatively slow reflexes?

Hmm..

He got disarmed by a saber throw from a Jedi who was getting tooled by a Dark Council member if that counts for anything.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He got disarmed by a saber throw from a Jedi who was getting tooled by a Dark Council member if that counts for anything.

I've avoided playing TOR for it's shittiness, but yeah, this doesn't surprise me.

You would think for a Dark Lord that developed titanic mental powers at a Broly-esque rate, that he would at the very least have good precognition or bullet-time abilities.

But apparently no; - it almost makes his uber powers seem useless.

So? Sidious was shot in the back by Han Solo

Originally posted by Rookwood
I've avoided playing TOR for it's shittiness, but yeah, this doesn't surprise me.

You would think for a Dark Lord that developed titanic mental powers at a Broly-esque rate, that he would at the very least have good precognition or bullet-time abilities.

But apparently no; - it almost makes his uber powers seem useless.
Bro, I expect you to not jump in to premature conclusions on the basis of insignificant information provided by PT/OT worshippers.

Here is the actual event:

EVEN AS SHE CALLED to Scourge to help, Meetra was already sprinting toward the far end of the throne room. Scourge hesitated before joining her, taking a moment to survey the situation, memories of his vision of their failure still fresh in his mind.

What he saw was not good. Revan was being electrocuted, his body spasming uncontrollably as the Emperor blasted him with dark purple lightning.

Revan's astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi's lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds. Meetra was moving fast, but she was too far away to stop the Emperor from eviscerating the prone Jedi at his feet.

In desperation, she hurled her lightsaber with a wild sidearm throw, guiding it with the Force so that it spiraled end-over-end to intercept the descending blade, knocking it from the Emperor's grasp and sending it skittering across the floor.

Suddenly empty-handed, the Emperor took a quick step back. His attention had been focused solely on Revan; Meetra's trick had caught him by surprise. (SWTOR Revan)

As you can note, Sith Emperor was preoccupied with Revan when Meetra struck him from a great distance.

Surprise attack is surprise attack. It can surprise anybody.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Bro, I expect you to not jump in to premature conclusions on the basis of insignificant information provided by PT/OT worshippers.

Here is the actual event:

EVEN AS SHE CALLED to Scourge to help, Meetra was already sprinting toward the far end of the throne room. Scourge hesitated before joining her, taking a moment to survey the situation, memories of his vision of their failure still fresh in his mind.

What he saw was not good. Revan was being electrocuted, his body spasming uncontrollably as the Emperor blasted him with dark purple lightning.

Revan's astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi's lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds. Meetra was moving fast, but she was too far away to stop the Emperor from eviscerating the prone Jedi at his feet.

In desperation, she hurled her lightsaber with a wild sidearm throw, guiding it with the Force so that it spiraled end-over-end to intercept the descending blade, knocking it from the Emperor's grasp and sending it skittering across the floor.

Suddenly empty-handed, the Emperor took a quick step back. His attention had been focused solely on Revan; Meetra's trick had caught him by surprise. (SWTOR Revan)

As you can note, Sith Emperor was preoccupied with Revan when Meetra struck him from a great distance.

Surprise attack is surprise attack. It can surprise anybody.

Wow, God, why did they pussify Revan so badly, though?

That guy was supposed to be a Prodigy - further developed through uber experiences, etc.

How come he got so badly rape-stomped?

Drew is such a bad writer.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Wow, God, why did they pussify Revan so badly, though?

That guy was supposed to be a Prodigy - further developed through uber experiences, etc.

How come he got so badly rape-stomped?

Drew is such a bad writer.
Revan is not pussified in the novel. It is just that some people (PT/OT worshippers in particular) underestimate Sith Emperor (Vitiate) without logical basis.

However, novel is not very well done IMO as well.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Surprise attack is surprise attack. It can surprise anybody.

And how do you think Sidious would have fared, against a surprise attack like that?

Originally posted by Rookwood
And how do you think Sidious would have fared, against a surprise attack like that?
Awareness is the key to self-defence. How do you think Han Solo managed to shoot Sidious?

I think he would have been picked up and thrown over some railings personally.

Hypothetically speaking.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think he would have been picked up and thrown over some railings personally.

Hypothetically speaking.

Zing.

Originally posted by jadams3928
So? Sidious was shot in the back by Han Solo


Not sure why people bring this up. It seems pretty clear that Sidious intentionally died to possess Anakin. His death in RotJ is far more damning.

He was going to possess Anakin, he had no idea Han was behind him with a gun. Since this is DE Sidious, it's even more damning.

Where is it stated he didn't know Han was behind him? After all Han killing him furthered his plans

If what you say is true, he could have left his body at any time. Instead, he was desperately trying to get hold of Anakin Solo and as such, was not aware of Han.

When has Sidious ever just left his body? It's been awhile since I read DE, but in that I seem to recall him letting Luke kill him so he could use a younger body.

Why are there 2 threads for this? One on top of the other??

In a battle of Magicians Vitiate wins unless Sidious gets the same amount of prep.

Because Sidious would be more dangerous with prep than Vitiate, he was the stronger Sith Lord. He would summon Sith Chrysalide Super Rancors or something.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Clones more rapidly decay under dark side effects than do normal bodies. But I'm unaware of any evidence that suggests that they are more vulnerable to attack.

Sidous' first young clone was immortal so long as he continued feeding off of the inhabitants of Byss or even Corucscant. His other clones were sabotaged.

Sidious was stronger in the Force because all the power of the Dark Side wasn't spread out as much as with Vitiate and the thousands of Sith who ruled under him. Such is the Rule of Two.

Originally posted by jadams3928
They are "inferior" in every way so logic dictates that not only is the potency of their attacks inferior, but so is their defense.

This does not follow. It would only follow that the clones may not be able to maintain such intensity for an indefinite period of time. The reborn Emperor was more than capable of dueling at nigh-invisible speeds (The Dark Empire audiobook), conjuring Force lightning (Empire's End), unleashing Force Storms, etc. and so forth.

Yeah, but I was thinking of mostly combat or combat-related facets of Sithdom.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


if in clone body, will be extremely vulnerable against deadly dark side powers. Clone body can be easily destroyed by such powers. Proof of this? If anything was stated, it was that palpatines clone bodies were unstable and would deteriorate to the vast amounts of powers he was carrying thus needing to constantly switch clone bodies after a prolonged amount of time. Well except for his first clone body since he was draining an entire planet.

Nowhere did it actually state he is more "vulnerable to dark side attacks".

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan is not pussified in the novel. It is just that some people (PT/OT worshippers in particular) underestimate Sith Emperor (Vitiate) without logical basis.

However, novel is not very well done IMO as well. And you underestimate several PT/OT characters as well.... how does this make you any different?

You are a kock to a pus-sy and vice versa. Both of you guys are the same yet the opposites. Phanboyz.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Proof of this? If anything was stated, it was that palpatines clone bodies were unstable and would deteriorate to the vast amounts of powers he was carrying thus needing to constantly switch clone bodies after a prolonged amount of time. Well except for his first clone body since he was draining an entire planet.

Nowhere did it actually state he is more "vulnerable to dark side attacks".
It is already taking abuse from within. How much abuse it will take from outside?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And you underestimate several PT/OT characters as well.... how does this make you any different?

You are a kock to a pus-sy and vice versa. Both of you guys are the same yet the opposites. Phanboyz.
I find this assessment funny. I simply give credit to Ancient characters where due.

Do you know that in a recent 'real-world perspective' based Star Wars book from Pablo Hidalgo, no Sith Lord have been declared as most powerful?

Star Wars is evolving with passage of time. New immensely powerful characters are being introduced. People should adapt to these changes. Simple.

Really?

Okay, I concede the argument. You win, bro.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6h41ukf3U1qkt6l9.png

So who do you think would win? I'm going to guess he has a wrinkly prune face and a monster voice.

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6h41ukf3U1qkt6l9.png

So who do you think would win?

The Galactic Emperor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm going to guess he has a wrinkly prune face and a monster voice.

With these two, you'll have to be more specific.

Vitiates voice is mature and sensual, not monstrous and his face is merely kind of old-looking. Distinquished would be a good descriptor.

I foresee jealous reprisal from Bane and Nihilus regarding your latest man-crush.

Me and Legend are going to form a 3-tier man sandwich.

It will be LeGenDary.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Me and Legend are going to form a 3-tier man sandwich.

It will be LeGenDary.

It's called a manwich or a hunk sammich.
And you've already excreted enough boy milk in Vitiate's direction to inspire a modified adjective:

LeGenDairy.

Anyway, I'm not sure if Vitiate would be able to deal with Sidious' speed, although considering that the B-team was able to at least ready their sabers I'd wager that he could blast him away with the shield technique that he used on the Knight or throw some lightning at him to stop his charge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway, I'm not sure if Vitiate would be able to deal with Sidious' speed, although considering that the B-team was able to at least ready their sabers I'd wager that he could blast him away with the shield technique that he used on the Knight or throw some lightning at him to stop his charge.

That seems pretty speculative, IMHO.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is already taking abuse from within. How much abuse it will take from outside?
Um no, the clone bodies simply didnt have the genetic potential to contain such power unlike palpatines original body. That in no way indicates he is more prone to getting damaged from the outside.

He already had been hit by a strong force push, that didn't damage him at all. And his deterioration took an extremely long time, years even, before his clone body finally dies.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I find this assessment funny. I simply give credit to Ancient characters where due.

Do you know that in a recent 'real-world perspective' based Star Wars book from Pablo Hidalgo, no Sith Lord have been declared as most powerful?

Star Wars is evolving with passage of time. New immensely powerful characters are being introduced. People should adapt to these changes. Simple. You do more than "give credit where its due".

What about you, Shinky? Who do you think wins?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That seems pretty speculative, IMHO.

I don't see how, neither takes much time to do.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't see how, neither takes much time to do.

But you'd have to prove that it would be fast enough to contend with the Emperor, who could draw on the nexus to bolster his already extraordinary speed.

Vitiate could also draw on the nexus, and as I said, considering the B-team did react to him I don't see why Vitiate couldn't.

Well, as you have mentioned a time or two, just because one character is able to do one thing doesn't mean another can replicate it.

Additionally, the opening post describes Vitiate as the one that appears in Revan. None of his feats against the Hero of Tython really apply unless they were depicted in that book.

The idea that Vitiate can move as fast as the Jedi Masters, let alone the Emperor, is naked speculation IMHO.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate could also draw on the nexus, and as I said, considering the B-team did react to him I don't see why Vitiate couldn't.

What exactly did the B-Team react to? The only one who showed any kind of reaction was Kit Fisto.

That being said I find it difficult to believe someone with the Sith Emperor's powers and mastery would get blitzed by Sidious. After all he didn't blitz Mace Windu. Nor did Yoda (at least Sidious's equal in speed) blitz Count Dooku.

I'm sure Sidious is far superior to the Sith Emperor in a Saber fight. But speed blitz him? I highly doubt it.

Neph, how come you did not respond to my post in the "DE Sidious and Lord Vitiate" thread? I want some attention too.

@Tempest - did you purposely move the debate that was started in the "DE Sidious and Lord Vitiate" thread to this one, or did you just accidently paste your argument here?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Neph, how come you did not respond to my post in the "DE Sidious and Lord Vitiate" thread? I want some attention too.
Everyone wants a piece of the Nephthys. ;3




But we're in agreement here that The Emperor has no chance, right?

I just wanted to see who would best the other.

Yup.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
@Tempest - did you purposely move the debate that was started in the "DE Sidious and Lord Vitiate" thread to this one, or did you just accidently paste your argument here?

Purposely. The previous thread was becoming increasingly Vitiate vs. Sidious rather than Vitiate and Sidious. I told jadams3928 that the topic was complex enough not to succumb to tangents and then I started to do the same thing with Nai and Neph.

It was more appropriate here.



The Emperor absolutely stands a chance. In fact, I think he'd win a solid majority!

Vitiate, on the other hand, would probably lose. How often and to what degree is open to discussion and it really depends on how generous the debaters in question want to be.

My personal thoughts on the matter may very well differ from what I post on the subject, but since Neph wasn't acting especially reasonable in our previous discussion, I don't see why those in the other camp should.

Originally posted by Rookwood



But we're in agreement here that The Emperor has no chance, right?



To say either of these power houses wouldn't even stand a chance is absurd.

I like how some infer than Vitiate is almost unstoppable yet one Knight was more than enough to lock his soul away.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious is terminated in a flash of light. Happy?


That worked wonders for every Jedi he faced. I don't even think he killed a Jedi in the entire game. Wow he controlled random Jedi who had no idea he had those powers. Sids is way above anyone in TOR's league.

What makes you think Sids can't do it in half the time? Vitiate has no evidence of high level combat.

Originally posted by Based
I like how some infer than Vitiate is almost unstoppable yet one Knight was more than enough to lock his soul away.

What makes you think Sids can't do it in half the time? Vitiate has no evidence of high level combat.

Boy, now you've done it. haermm

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
To say either of these power houses wouldn't even stand a chance is absurd.

I don't see Vitiate mind-raping Sidious.

Originally posted by Based
I like how some infer than Vitiate is almost unstoppable yet one Knight was more than enough to lock his soul away.



That worked wonders for every Jedi he faced. I don't even think he killed a Jedi in the entire game. Wow he controlled random Jedi who had no idea he had those powers. Sids is way above anyone in TOR's league.

What makes you think Sids can't do it in half the time? Vitiate has no evidence of high level combat.

I definitely enjoy how you downplay one character's feats and then claim the other one is superior without any basis whatsoever.

I like how this sub-forum has managed to stay alive all these years, despite pretty much all the threads on the first three pages being duplicates of older threads.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I like how this sub-forum has managed to stay alive all these years, despite pretty much all the threads on the first three pages being duplicates of older threads.

Without you - none of it would be possible.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Neph wasn't acting especially reasonable in our previous discussion

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif

Originally posted by Based
I like how some infer than Vitiate is almost unstoppable yet one Knight was more than enough to lock his soul away.

What makes you think Sids can't do it in half the time? Vitiate has no evidence of high level combat.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I don't see Vitiate mind-raping Sidious.

Of course not. Like wise I don't see Sidious speed blitzing someone on Vitiate's level.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Of course not. Like wise I don't see Sidious speed blitzing someone on Vitiate's level.

Can Vitiate react to someone who can clear 15 feet in two seconds?

Originally posted by Rookwood
Can Vitiate react to someone who can clear 15 feet in two seconds?

If he can't then his power and force mastery is seriously over rated.

One gains speed and reaction through a good connection to the force. Which is either from being naturally strong in the force or by having a great mastery of it.

Vitiate clearly has both. The only way Sidious is Saber blitzing him is if he hasn't ever developed his Saber skills.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Me and Legend are going to form a 3-tier man sandwich.

It will be LeGenDary.
http://noodleheads.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345166c269e2010536b06a84970c-320pi

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's called a manwich or a hunk sammich.
And you've already excreted enough boy milk in Vitiate's direction to inspire a modified adjective:

LeGenDairy.
You mean cream!

http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TOH/Images/Photos/37/exps11843_QC10096C16A.jpg

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Um no, the clone bodies simply didnt have the genetic potential to contain such power unlike palpatines original body. That in no way indicates he is more prone to getting damaged from the outside.
Why not?

The clone body, due to not being able to sustain such power, is undergoing continues deteriorate. decay.

With the kind of guy Sidious is up against:

As they drew closer to the throne room, Revan's thoughts drifted back to his last confrontation with the Emperor. In all his battles, he had never faced an enemy with that kind of power. The dark side had radiated from him in palpable waves, his physical shell barely able to contain the crackling energy. (SWTOR Revan)

- Some moments are to be expected in this duel, in which no amount of protective measures will be sufficient to shield the clone body from extreme external abuse and the already internally stressed and deteriorating body is likely to easily end up getting destroyed in the process.

Try to understand that Star Wars authors aren't stupid. No matter how powerful a character is introduced, he or she would still likely have weaknesses that can be exploited. Read more below.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He already had been hit by a strong force push, that didn't damage him at all. And his deterioration took an extremely long time, years even, before his clone body finally dies.
Force push doesn't damages an opponent unless the opponent hits an object or something in the process.

And Palpatine clones aren't as durable as you pointed out here. A clone body would last a year maximum with its durability reaching zero point by the end of the period. The internal decay would begin from day 1.

The very reason that Palpatine's clone bodies deteriorated was due to getting ravaged by powerful dark side energies from within, which were not even channeled on them offensively. Such powerful dark side energies, if channeled directly on these bodies, would absolutely shatter them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You do more than "give credit where its due".
No. I try to maintain balance.

Originally posted by Based
I like how some infer than Vitiate is almost unstoppable yet one Knight was more than enough to lock his soul away.
I like how some infer that Sidious is almost unstoppable yet (Pre-NJO) Luke disarmed him, and with help form Leia; both cut him off from the Force.

Originally posted by Based
That worked wonders for every Jedi he faced.
Genius! Vitiate purged an entire Dark Council with that kind of power in single blow. It may sound funny to you in comments but it is one of the most potent display of Force usage in history.

Originally posted by Based
I don't even think he killed a Jedi in the entire game.
These are petty things for him. He had lot of individuals under his command who did this job.

Originally posted by Based
Wow he controlled random Jedi who had no idea he had those powers. Sids is way above anyone in TOR's league.
Random Jedi?

Those were not fodders but included prominent individuals of the Order. Those 3 Jedi Masters were accompanied by Hero of Tython himself, who alone seems to be among the greatest warriors in Star Wars history and not just the Jedi Order.

Now should I remind you what happened to Sidious whem he faced a Jedi Strike Team? You probably know the answer.

Originally posted by Based
What makes you think Sids can't do it in half the time? Vitiate has no evidence of high level combat.
You are clueless of what you are talking about, kid.

First learn something about Vitiate and then come back and talk.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Can Vitiate react to someone who can clear 15 feet in two seconds?
Vitiate kept up with Hero of Tython in close combat even in weakened state didn't he? (Keep in mind that Hero of Tython was also extraordinarily talented duelist and immensely powerful in the Force.)

And also keep in mind that Vitiate can create duplicates of himself during combat situations.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


And also keep in mind that Vitiate can create duplicates of himself during combat situations.

LOL Why not just have him use his force mastery and dark side magic to fly at mach speeds??

Seriously who wrote this crap? I mean jeez I thought Dark Empire went overboard.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Why not?
Because you saying so doesn't make it so.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The clone body, due to not being able to sustain such power, is undergoing continues deteriorate. decay.
And this mean he is more prone to attacks how?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

With the kind of guy Sidious is up against:

As they drew closer to the throne room, Revan's thoughts drifted back to his last confrontation with the Emperor. In all his battles, he had never faced an enemy with that kind of power. The dark side had radiated from him in palpable waves, his physical shell barely able to contain the crackling energy. (SWTOR Revan) So are you saying he is more prone to dark side attacks too?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Some moments are to be expected in this duel, in which no amount of protective measures will be sufficient to shield the clone body from extreme external abuse and the already internally stressed and deteriorating body is likely to easily end up getting destroyed in the process. If thats the case, wouldn't Sidious be closer to death everytime he unleashed his powers? How come he didn't simply get ripped to pieces when he summoned his wormhole, which according to sourcebooks, require extreme amounts of force powers?

Wouldn't that have simply ripped him apart by exerting such power then?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Try to understand that Star Wars authors aren't stupid.

They aren't, but you are.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force push doesn't damages an opponent unless the opponent hits an object or something in the process. Which in this case, Sidious got knocked up against a wall pretty hard, but wait, how come he didn't simply dissentigrate?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Palpatine clones aren't as durable as you pointed out here. A clone body would last a year maximum with its durability reaching zero point by the end of the period. The internal decay would begin from day 1. Anything to back this up?




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


The very reason that Palpatine's clone bodies deteriorated was due to getting ravaged by powerful dark side energies from within, which were not even channeled on them offensively. Such powerful dark side energies, if channeled directly on these bodies, would absolutely shatter them.
Keyword, from within, again, how is this concrete proof that he will be more prone to damage from other dark side attacks used on him?

What proof do you have? What sources actually support your stupid and ridiculous assertion?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No. I try to maintain balance. By coming up with stupid and ridiculous assertions? Sure as hell sounds like blatant fanboyism to me, which everyone on this forum calls you out for.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I like how some infer that Sidious is almost unstoppable yet (Pre-NJO) Luke disarmed him, and with help form Leia; both cut him off from the Force. Because the majority of his focus was on controlling the wormhole and beginning to summon another one?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Because you saying so doesn't make it so.
Palpatine wanted a body durable enough to sustain powerful dark side energies.

Originally posted by shinkoryu And this mean he is more prone to attacks how?
No. Clone body will be easier to destroy then a natural body.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
So are you saying he is more prone to dark side attacks too?
No. It is hint of his immense power.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
If thats the case, wouldn't Sidious be closer to death everytime he unleashed his powers? How come he didn't simply get ripped to pieces when he summoned his wormhole, which according to sourcebooks, require extreme amounts of force powers?
No. Sidious did not unleashed his powers on himself or did he?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Wouldn't that have simply ripped him apart by exerting such power then?
No. Was he unleashing such power on himself?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
They aren't, but you are.
Can you keep this civil?

Imperfect clone body is a weakness of DE Palpatine. Whether you like this or not, does not makes difference.

"As one's body is consumed by the power of the dark side, the key to immortality is the growth of new bodies into which one can project one's own life essence. Unfortunately, because the clones are one step removed from the natural life process itself, they are much more vulnerable to the effects of the dark side, and age at an extremely accelerated rate. The only logical solution is to grow many more clones at the same time as backups." (Palpatine)

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Which in this case, Sidious got knocked up against a wall pretty hard, but wait, how come he didn't simply dissentigrate?
Force push represents powerful dark side energy based attack? Since when?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Anything to back this up?
How about you give me an example of which clone body lasted more then a year?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Keyword, from within, again, how is this concrete proof that he will be more prone to damage from other dark side attacks used on him?

What proof do you have? What sources actually support your stupid and ridiculous assertion?
Logical deduction based on Sidious's own assessment of his clones.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
By coming up with stupid and ridiculous assertions? Sure as hell sounds like blatant fanboyism to me, which everyone on this forum calls you out for.
I don't care. Most of the self-proclaimed judges here are even greater fanboys then me.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Because the majority of his focus was on controlling the wormhole and beginning to summon another one?
No.

Luke and Palpatine dueled in fair manner for a second time aboard Eclipse and Luke disarmed the latter this time. After this, Palpatine became furious and began to summon a Force Storm to destroy Luke and his allies. However, Luke and Leia joined hands and disrupted Palpatine in the process via Force Harmony technique; Palpatine lost control of his powers then, and this gave Luke and Leia the opportunity to escape while the Force Storm destroyed Eclipse where this encounter took place and Palpatine once again became an essence.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If he can't then his power and force mastery is seriously over rated.

One gains speed and reaction through a good connection to the force. Which is either from being naturally strong in the force or by having a great mastery of it.

Vitiate clearly has both. The only way Sidious is Saber blitzing him is if he hasn't ever developed his Saber skills.

Again, it really depends on how generous or fair-minded the participants want to be.

On sheer evidence alone, the reborn Emperor would slaughter Vitiate by virtue of vastly superior speed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Again, it really depends on how generous or fair-minded the participants want to be.

On sheer evidence alone, the reborn Emperor would slaughter Vitiate by virtue of vastly superior speed.
On sheer evidence alone, Vitiate can confuse Palpatine with his duplicates and then bring him down with his powers.

It goes both ways.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
LOL Why not just have him use his force mastery and dark side magic to fly at mach speeds??

Seriously who wrote this crap? I mean jeez I thought Dark Empire went overboard.
LOL

Well, it is good to note that Palpatine finally have competition. Star Wars mythos would be boring with hard and fast assumptions like the above guy makes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine wanted a body durable enough to sustain powerful dark side energies.
Correct.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No. Clone body will be easier to destroy then a natural body.
Incorrect, Galen Marek, Jorus c boath weren't "destroyed" easily because they were clones.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No. It is hint of his immense power.
Again, you don't get my point as usual.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No. Sidious did not unleashed his powers on himself or did he?


No. Was he unleashing such power on himself? No, but unleashing vast amounts of powers should have caused further deterioration to his already deteriorating body, which actually did happen, but to his stable clone body in DE1, it had very minor affects, but in EE where he used a sabotaged clone body? Even minor force powers deteriorated his already sabotaged body to a larger degree.

Thus i see no reason why should he be more vulnerable to force attacks if he can withstand conjuring his own power into a massive scale.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Can you keep this civil?
Not with someone as stubborn and pig headed as yourself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Imperfect clone body is a weakness of DE Palpatine. Whether you like this or not, does not makes difference.

"As one's body is consumed by the power of the dark side, the key to immortality is the growth of new bodies into which one can project one's own life essence. Unfortunately, because the clones are one step removed from the natural life process itself, they are much more vulnerable to the effects of the dark side, and age at an extremely accelerated rate. The only logical solution is to grow many more clones at the same time as backups." (Palpatine)
Ah, you quoted this from wookiepedia.

Its true that he is more prone to damage from the dark side, but how is this in anyway indicates he is more prone to force attacks?

How is it possible, that Sidious is even alive on a dark side nexus which has dark side energies ravaging the entire planet while at the same time not ravaging his body?(Byss).

That quote, which you posted, simply states that the negative aspects of the force, simply age and deteriorate his body quicker, it doesn't actually state that the dark side energies or force attacks outright kill him because he is already vulnerable. Meaning, if lets say somebody constantly barrages him with force attacks, it simply ages his body towards its dying state quicker.

Heck, in Empires end, Sidious was in possession of a clone that was utterly sabotaged where Sidious only had a matter of days to live, and every time he uses even a minor power, his body deteriorates even further. So yeah, i concede the point about him using his own powers wont deteriorate him.

Thus, if Palpatine was deteriorating at such an incredible rate in a sabotaged clone, and if even minor powers drained him further, that means his stable clones are way more durable than you think considering that he can summon a force storm without getting weakened, or drained one bit, but simply adds to his slow aging.

That would apply to force attacks as well.





Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force push represents powerful dark side energy based attack? Since when? When fueled by anger and rage, it is according to luke skywalker and kyle katarn. Which in this case Luke attacked Palpatine in a fit of rage.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

How about you give me an example of which clone body lasted more then a year?
Galen marek, Jorus c boath, Luuke skywalker clone, Heck, the whole friggin GE stormtroopers.

Are you this stupid?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Logical deduction based on Sidious's own assessment of his clones. Yeah well see the above.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I don't care. Most of the self-proclaimed judges here are even greater fanboys then me.

You DO care, which is why you flip out everytime someone calls you out on your fanboyism, if you didn't care, you wouldn't even be trying to convince me or anyone otherwise.

And yes, you ARE the greatest fanboy around here, i mean coming up with illogical and unreadable arguments while belittling the characters you outright dislike? You are no different mate.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Luke and Palpatine dueled in fair manner for a second time aboard Eclipse and Luke disarmed the latter this time. After this, Palpatine became furious and began to summon a Force Storm to destroy Luke and his allies. However, Luke and Leia joined hands and disrupted Palpatine in the process via Force Harmony technique; Palpatine lost control of his powers then, and this gave Luke and Leia the opportunity to escape while the Force Storm destroyed Eclipse where this encounter took place and Palpatine once again became an essence. Don't forget that the only reason they could sever his force connection was because he was in the midst of summoning a second force storm in the vicinity according to the DE audio and source book.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
On sheer evidence alone, Vitiate can confuse Palpatine with his duplicates and then bring him down with his powers.

It goes both ways.


Thats a stupid argument ey? You think a force user won't be able to sense if the duplicate is real or not? Jango had no problems with komari vosas duplicate and neither did luke have any problems with lumiyas phantoms.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Correct.
Thank you.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Incorrect, Galen Marek, Jorus c boath weren't "destroyed" easily because they were clones.
Those were perfect clones. Palpatine's clones weren't perfect.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Again, you don't get my point as usual.
No, you need to do some digging in this matter.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
No, but unleashing vast amounts of powers should have caused further deterioration to his already deteriorating body, which actually did happen, but to his stable clone body in DE1, it had very minor affects, but in EE where he used a sabotaged clone body? Even minor force powers deteriorated his already sabotaged body to a larger degree.
Thanks for confirming my intended point. In the nutshell, quality of a clone matters. And Sidious only needed hands to unleash his powers; not his whole body.

Now imagine, if the whole clone body is engulfed by an extremely potent Force Lightning (described as a swirling storm of pure dark side energies), bombarding it, burning it and working to rip it from inside out. This is the point.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Thus i see no reason why should he be more vulnerable to force attacks if he can withstand conjuring his own power into a massive scale.
You are not looking at the picture properly. Palpatine, himself stated that his clones are vulnerable to impact of dark side energies.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Not with someone as stubborn and pig headed as yourself.
So you wanna play with me in this manner? I can return the favor in extremely worse fashion. My advice; don't.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Ah, you quoted this from wookiepedia.
Bothered to check the actual source? Wookieepedia doesn't invents quotes.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Its true that he is more prone to damage from the dark side, but how is this in anyway indicates he is more prone to force attacks?
Key point: Offensive applications based on pure dark side energies.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
How is it possible, that Sidious is even alive on a dark side nexus which has dark side energies ravaging the entire planet while at the same time not ravaging his body?(Byss).
Apples and Oranges. Not even worth replying.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
That quote, which you posted, simply states that the negative aspects of the force, simply age and deteriorate his body quicker, it doesn't actually state that the dark side energies or force attacks outright kill him because he is already vulnerable. Meaning, if lets say somebody constantly barrages him with force attacks, it simply ages his body towards its dying state quicker.
I knew that you will come up with this kind of interpretation.

"Unfortunately, because the clones are one step removed from the natural life process itself, they are much more vulnerable to the effects of the dark side, and age at an extremely accelerated rate. The only logical solution is to grow many more clones at the same time as backups."

Aging is a separate issue with Palpatine's clones. More notable drawback is that these clones were highly vulnerable to impact of dark side energies.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Heck, in Empires end, Sidious was in possession of a clone that was utterly sabotaged where Sidious only had a matter of days to live, and every time he uses even a minor power, his body deteriorates even further. So yeah, i concede the point about him using his own powers wont deteriorate him.
Good.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Thus, if Palpatine was deteriorating at such an incredible rate in a sabotaged clone, and if even minor powers drained him further, that means his stable clones are way more durable than you think considering that he can summon a force storm without getting weakened, or drained one bit, but simply adds to his slow aging.

That would apply to force attacks as well.
You have a point here. However, Vitiate's powers are potent enough to push even masters of Tutaminis to breaking point in seconds. Do the math.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
When fueled by anger and rage, it is according to luke skywalker and kyle katarn. Which in this case Luke attacked Palpatine in a fit of rage.
Force push is a telekinetic ability. Nothing else.

Some examples of pure dark side energies based powers are Force Lightning, Force Drain and Force Storm.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Galen marek, Jorus c boath, Luuke skywalker clone, Heck, the whole friggin GE stormtroopers.

Are you this stupid?
No, but you are turning out to be stupid.

Kaminoan scientists were famous for creating high quality clones in the whole Galaxy. However, situation changed after the defeat of The Galactic Empire. Resurrected Palpatine wanted a Kaminoan scientist Ko Sai to make clones for him. Unfortunately for him, she committed suicide.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Yeah well see the above.
See above.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
You DO care, which is why you flip out everytime someone calls you out on your fanboyism, if you didn't care, you wouldn't even be trying to convince me or anyone otherwise.
I am a fan of Star Wars; specially the Old Republic lore. I openly admit this. However, I keep an open mind.

What I find ironic is that other fanboys (themselves) accuse me of being one.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And yes, you ARE the greatest fanboy around here, i mean coming up with illogical and unreadable arguments while belittling the characters you outright dislike? You are no different mate.
Sorry. I disagree. Their are some fanboys here who never show flexibility in their opinion regardless of how much information they are fed with.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Don't forget that the only reason they could sever his force connection was because he was in the midst of summoning a second force storm in the vicinity according to the DE audio and source book.
What makes you think that Force Harmony technique wouldn't have worked otherwise?

Also, Palpatine had summoned a Force Storm before on Coruscant as far as I remember.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Thats a stupid argument ey? You think a force user won't be able to sense if the duplicate is real or not? Jango had no problems with komari vosas duplicate and neither did luke have any problems with lumiyas phantoms.
Depends upon how good an individual is able to conceal and/or overshadow the fake-ness of the phantoms/illusions. Vitiate's command of the Force is no joke.

Hero of Tython, regardless of being immensely powerful and talented, was striking Vitiate's phantoms/illusions during the duel. This suggests that Vitiate successfully concealed and/or overshadowed their fake-ness.

It's pretty clear the Emperor stomps. He's too fast.

Originally posted by jadams3928
I definitely enjoy how you downplay one character's feats and then claim the other one is superior without any basis whatsoever.

I know you enjoy it because you're doing the same exact thing. Vitiate has never speedblitzed anyone. He hasn't even killed anyone in the game.

What does he have other than mind domination? Anything at all that can last in a fight against Sidious, the most powerful Sith lord of them all? Or do you not know Star Wars? I'm overrating Sidious, really? Did you watch ROTS? Or actually do you actually know who Sidious is? I'm not being sarcastic, do you?

OT: And do you know what basis means? Because you're not even trying to dispel the argument. All you did was use some cop out 3rd grade response. Spare me the sarcasm unless you out some sort of wit in them. We're not in kindergarten anymore.

There was no need for him to kill anyone in the game.


You're right, I don't know Star Wars. So lets use your retarded logic here. What does Sidious have other than Sabers? Your stupidity is noted.

Are you going to be pissy with everyone who doesn't vote Vitiate here?

I'm going to be pissy with anyone who doesn't offer an argument.

Judging by your demeanor, that's anyone who doesn't vote Vitiate.

At no point did I even vote Vitiate. But when your competition is Sidous66 or Arhael, there's not much more room for disappointment.

Originally posted by jadams3928
But when your competition is Sidous66 or Arhael, there's not much more room for disappointment.
Exactly...

Originally posted by Based
Vitiate has never speedblitzed anyone.
Because his approach to combat is different. He uses his command of the Force to tackle his opponents rather then through martial abilities.

Originally posted by Based
He hasn't even killed anyone in the game.
So? This is a plot thing. This doesn't suggests that he cannot or have not killed Jedi. As an example, Vitiate would have killed Revan, if the Jedi's allies had not interfered.

Originally posted by Based
What does he have other than mind domination?
Maybe you are not paying attention to debates on this subject.

Vitiate;

1. Is most proficient with Force Lightning in the whole mythos.
2. Can create illusions/phantoms of himself during combat situations.
3. Can unleash highly potent blast of energies with bare hands. (Exar Kun performed this feat with amulets; Vitiate instantly knocked out an entire Jedi Strike Team with this power.)
4. Is highly proficient with TK.
5. Is very good at defending himself.

Furthermore, he demonstrates Abeloth like capabilities during SWTOR.

And this isn't all.

Originally posted by Based
Anything at all that can last in a fight against Sidious, the most powerful Sith lord of them all?
Vitiate can handle Sidious with his Force powers.

Most powerful Sith Lord of them all is now an ambiguous fellato.

Dropped by Best Buy and stumbled across The Old Republic Explorer's Guide, which says that Dromund Kaas "bristles with a strong Dark Side presence that seemingly permeates every rock, vine, and raindrop across the planet."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



Those were perfect clones. Palpatine's clones weren't perfect.
Which you failed to elaborate, you make an argument that all clones are easier to kill off, and now when i prove you wrong, you magically change your stance on the matter.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


No, you need to do some digging in this matter. Again, you don't get my point which further proves your incompetence as a "debater", i wasn't disputing Vitiates power level idiot, you just actually failed to grasp at the point i was making.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Thanks for confirming my intended point. In the nutshell, quality of a clone matters. And Sidious only needed hands to unleash his powers; not his whole body. Which you did not state at all earlier in any of your posts. All you kept arguing about was how fragile all clone bodies are. Again, this proves your incompetence in an actual coherant debate.

And um yeah? Sidious only needed his hands to unleash his powers? So are you arguing that his or Vitiates vast reserves of force powers only comes from their hands?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Now imagine, if the whole clone body is engulfed by an extremely potent Force Lightning (described as a swirling storm of pure dark side energies), bombarding it, burning it and working to rip it from inside out. This is the point. Then yes, it would further affect his deteriorating body, by simply making it age faster.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


You are not looking at the picture properly. Palpatine, himself stated that his clones are vulnerable to impact of dark side energies. Which iv already responded to.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So you wanna play with me in this manner? I can return the favor in extremely worse fashion. My advice; don't.
You can try you paki, seriously, just try.

Bothered to check the actual source? Wookieepedia doesn't invents quotes. Did YOU check the actual source? Honestly, knowing your character, you probably don't even have the source materials as you outright stated you're an old republic era fanboy, so its highly unlikely you even have any of these sources that are not of TOR material.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Key point: Offensive applications based on pure dark side energies. Again, see my response about his aging.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Apples and Oranges. Not even worth replying.
Simply put, you don't have a response.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I knew that you will come up with this kind of interpretation.

"Unfortunately, because the clones are one step removed from the natural life process itself, they are much more vulnerable to the effects of the dark side, and age at an extremely accelerated rate. The only logical solution is to grow many more clones at the same time as backups."

Aging is a separate issue with Palpatine's clones. More notable drawback is that these clones were highly vulnerable to impact of dark side energies.


Palpatine and the DSSB itself states that the effects of the dark side are the sole things responsible for palpatines aging clone bodies. The more power he exerts, the more it adds to his deterioration.

He isn't as vulnerable to the point as you put it, or his own massive scale force powers would have ripped him to shreds on the spot.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You have a point here. However, Vitiate's powers are potent enough to push even masters of Tutaminis to breaking point in seconds. Do the math.


And Sidious powers are powerful enough to engulf entire planets while rip the fabrics of space and time with ease, whats your point? Both are extremely powerful individuals.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force push is a telekinetic ability. Nothing else.

Some examples of pure dark side energies based powers are Force Lightning, Force Drain and Force Storm.
Ok.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No, but you are turning out to be stupid.
Actually you are. You've asked me to show you one clone that survived for more than a year, you didn't specify if its the palpatine clone, or just clones in general. Its not my fault your command of the english language is utter shit.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Kaminoan scientists were famous for creating high quality clones in the whole Galaxy. However, situation changed after the defeat of The Galactic Empire. Resurrected Palpatine wanted a Kaminoan scientist Ko Sai to make clones for him. Unfortunately for him, she committed suicide. AGAIN you change your stance and argument when i prove you wrong, you really think im this stupid to think i don't know that you got this bit of info straight from wookiepedia after i told you the amount of clones that survived for more than a year?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I am a fan of Star Wars; specially the Old Republic lore. I openly admit this. However, I keep an open mind. Pretty doubtful, considering that anybody that disagrees with you is "instantly labelled an OT/PT worshipper"
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

What I find ironic is that other fanboys (themselves) accuse me of being one. Because you ARE one!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Sorry. I disagree. Their are some fanboys here who never show flexibility in their opinion regardless of how much information they are fed with. And one such fanboy is you.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

What makes you think that Force Harmony technique wouldn't have worked otherwise? Because such techniques can be defended against.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, Palpatine had summoned a Force Storm before on Coruscant as far as I remember. Um ok?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Depends upon how good an individual is able to conceal and/or overshadow the fake-ness of the phantoms/illusions. Vitiate's command of the Force is no joke.
Not when your opponent is a force user.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Hero of Tython, regardless of being immensely powerful and talented, was striking Vitiate's phantoms/illusions during the duel. This suggests that Vitiate successfully concealed and/or overshadowed their fake-ness. Do your homework properly moron, Vitiate didn't "conceal" his phantoms presence against the Hero, he was on the friggin stairs right infront of the hero when he summoned the phantoms in which the hero reacted by turning his back to strike down the phantoms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyAfEgYAMo

It starts at 11:50.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dropped by Best Buy and stumbled across The Old Republic Explorer's Guide, which says that Dromund Kaas "bristles with a strong Dark Side presence that seemingly permeates every rock, vine, and raindrop across the planet."

So does Korriban, and Lehon in PoD. That doesn't make them dark side nexuses.

In DE audio book it was lightning Luke used against Emperor, not Force push:

"LUKE: You forget -- I am a Jedi Master now. And I KNOW something about the Dark Side!

Sound: Luke unleashes his OWN Force lightning on the Emperor. The old (young) man crashes against the wall.
"

Sidious has been cited in multiple sources as the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. I was always under the impression that DE Sidious was an incarnation of Sidious as powerful or more powerful than ROTS Sidious. And the New Essential Chronology stated that "Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history," and that was referring to ROTS Sidious.

Originally posted by -kV-
Sidious has been cited in multiple sources as the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. I was always under the impression that DE Sidious was an incarnation of Sidious as powerful or more powerful than ROTS Sidious. And the New Essential Chronology stated that "Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history," and that was referring to ROTS Sidious.

Those "multiple sources" are "three" to begin with. All are statements from in-universe characters. Two of them don't even refer to Sidious force abilities (alone). And that brings the number of reliable sources proclaiming Sidious is the most powerful (in terms of Force powers) to precisely "zero". And that is already ignoring the fact that all three sources were written, before the invention of Vitiate, making them pretty useless for this very discussion, regardless whether you want to interprete them in favor for Sidious or not.

If you want to listen to the "Official Star Wars Fact File", the "most powerful and dangerous of the Sith Lords" was Exar Kun. You better ignore that information, though. Because if you should ever acknowledge that idea, Gideon will turn up and tell you why the "Official Star Wars Fact File" is wrong when it comes to facts regarding Star Wars.

There are other candidates around for that title, but I guess there is already enough to discuss in this thread here.

Nai
Those "multiple sources" are "three" to begin with.

That would qualifies as multiple, bro.

Nai
All are statements from in-universe characters. Two of them don't even refer to Sidious force abilities (alone). And that brings the number of reliable sources proclaiming Sidious is the most powerful (in terms of Force powers) to precisely "zero". And that is already ignoring the fact that all three sources were written, before the invention of Vitiate, making them pretty useless for this very discussion, regardless whether you want to interprete them in favor for Sidious or not.

Precisely, and we only use statements from in-universe characters when it favors DookuRagnosanyone Nai likesVitiate.

Nai
If you want to listen to the "Official Star Wars Fact File", the "most powerful and dangerous of the Sith Lords" was Exar Kun. You better ignore that information, though. Because if you should ever acknowledge that idea, Gideon will turn up and tell you why the "Official Star Wars Fact File" is wrong when it comes to facts regarding Star Wars.

Sounds like you and Gideon should get a room. If I might recommend a song for you to play as he penetrates your anal cavity in the soft light of the motel room? You could even whisper the lyrics into his ear as you climax beneath him. I have it on good faith that he would really appreciate that.

A lot.

s-Xl17B-Z0A

Originally posted by Nai
Those "multiple sources" are "three" to begin with. All are statements from in-universe characters. Two of them don't even refer to Sidious force abilities (alone). And that brings the number of reliable sources proclaiming Sidious is the most powerful (in terms of Force powers) to precisely "zero". And that is already ignoring the fact that all three sources were written, before the invention of Vitiate, making them pretty useless for this very discussion, regardless whether you want to interprete them in favor for Sidious or not.

If you want to listen to the "Official Star Wars Fact File", the "most powerful and dangerous of the Sith Lords" was Exar Kun. You better ignore that information, though. Because if you should ever acknowledge that idea, Gideon will turn up and tell you why the "Official Star Wars Fact File" is wrong when it comes to facts regarding Star Wars.

There are other candidates around for that title, but I guess there is already enough to discuss in this thread here.

Multiple is anything above one, so yes, four sources = multiple sources, and they all state that Sidious is the most powerful.

How are the sources "unreliable"?

How is:
"Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history," unreliable?

The "most powerful" is an all-encompassing description of Sidious's ability regarding both Force & lightsaber; it's not singling out one element. That's just a sentence from the New Essential Chronology- it's not a statement by Yoda for what I know.

Likewise,

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed." - Death Star

It doesn't seem the Rebels are making this claim, but rather the narrator. Again, not from an in-universe character.


Anyway, you're right about the Fact File. Although I believe the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (which was released later) stated something like, "Exar Kun, once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith." That could be interpreted that he was the most powerful until the rise of later, stronger Sith Lords...

Regardless, I'm not in any mood to argue about the validity of sources, though.

You're right that all these sources were written before Vitiate's existence. Does that mean we ignore them? For the purposes of this thread, I think we should put them aside to debate how Sidious could defeat Vitiate. IN MY OPINION, though, if GL canon and numerous book canon state Sidious is the most powerful, and nothing new contradicts those statements, then I hold those to be true over opinion.

The chronology is written from an in-universe perspective: Voren Na'al and the New Republic Historical Council. The other is from Vader's perspective, from the third person limited viewpoint.

Originally posted by -kV-
Anyway, you're right about the Fact File. Although I believe the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (which was released later) stated something like, "Exar Kun, once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith." That could be interpreted that he was the most powerful until the rise of later, stronger Sith Lords...

Funny enough, the quote from the Encyclopedia was offered to the forum by Gideon himself.

Ah, in that case, I concede that it wasn't written from an in-universe perspective. Although, I fail to see why a Jedi Council well-versed in history would be unreliable to make such claims.

Really, haha, that is funny. I was on hiatus from KMC during that time. It seemed a lot of stuff happened then from what I have heard.

Originally posted by -kV-
Ah, in that case, I concede that it wasn't written from an in-universe perspective. Although, I fail to see why a Jedi Council well-versed in history would be unreliable to make such claims.

It was a council of historians, not Jedi Knights.

The problem isn't so much that they're absolutely unreliable as it is that one can't be certain if it's true.

I've read somewhere that the in-universe perspective is a tool used by EU authors to more easily scapegoat continuity errors (they can blame it on poor research or missing records).

The problem is when Naisome people are willing to use in-universe sources when it favors their argument and not at other times.

Originally posted by -kV-
Really, haha, that is funny. I was on hiatus from KMC during that time. It seemed a lot of stuff happened then from what I have heard.

I wouldn't know, I only registered this year. haermm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Precisely, and we only use statements from in-universe characters when it favors DookuRagnosanyone Nai likesVitiate.

No. Even then, we can question those quotes, instead of blindly putting our believes into them. I'm a great fan of analysis performed that way. But if certain individuals make a habit of taking everything within written fiction literal, its fun to watch them worm out of the dead ends they manouvered themselves into with their singlemindedness, when confronting them with quotes that they don't like.



Probably a good idea. But given that Gideon is a huge Journey fan, he's apparently better suited to the recieving part than myself, since that band does clearly write music for girls. Of course, one also needs to consider his personal history with spending time inside other chocolate starfishs, which suggests that he is prone to shove his ferrus cranus in there, rather than his private parts. That doesn't sound like an erotic experience I would enjoy, especially since my final food exit is accustomed to hosting more intelligent visitors - approaching from within.

Back to the topic:


The New Essential Chronology is written fromt he perspective of an in-universe historian. And while Gideon has attempted to establish the idea, that the context of this comment is a fight, so "power" must refer to Sidious lightsaber and force abilities, he has been pretty much wrong with that contention.
"Context" is a term referring to everything influencing a situation of communication. That situation of communication is not a fight of Sidious and Yoda, but a historian talking about historical events that have happened 60 years in the past. As a result, said historian would be familiar with the events that occured after that confrontation, including Sidious rise to Galactic Rule, including his political and military power.
And now, the role of the historian is the thing that decides the content of the term "power" here. As a scientist, the historian would just pass on data, that can be validated, which is utterly impossible for Sidious force abilities or lightsaber skill in comparison to all other Sith Lords in history. Even so, if only because of the fact, that most of said Sith Lords are completely unknown. So the statement, even if accurate, most likely refers to things that can be validated: military power and political influence.



The narrator makes clear, that the statement is part of the inner musings of Darth Vader, as Gideon has already demonstrated in his essay.



Certainly not. But we should ask, if certain statements contained within those sources can still be accurate, if we know, that they don't take recent events within the expanded universe into consideration.



Ultimately, even the contents of those books and even GLs own mind is nothing but opinion. The Star Wars universe, according to some of the persons responsible for its content, is designed in a way to allow such discussions among fans. Since that is the case, we can't be certain about a lot of things, because their is always a way to question them.

Of course, human beings strive for what can be referred to as "certain knowledge". We want some order that can't be questioned, perhabs in form of a hierarchy of Sith Lords with one being on top, that is quaranteed to take down all others. But the SW universe is actively designed in a fashion were we can't have that. And, even ignoring that, it's constantly expanding and evolving, with its history being changed, rewritten and, in parts, completely deleted.

This must be a "do as I say, not as I do" sorta thing, right? Because your vision is about as keen as Stevie Wonder's.



One would think, if that were true, you'd have found a way to practice it over the years. Hilariously, a cursory glance at your post history reveals that you're only ever interested in questioning sources pertaining to a single character.

When Ragnos, Dooku, and now Vitiate are in play? You interpret them as the gospel.



Are you roleplaying as me, here?



...I'm glad you finally admitted to receiving. They say it's better to give than to receive, of course, but it sounds like you wouldn't know about that. haermm



Indeed. Why would power refer to combat prowess when the contest in question is a fight? Wouldn't make any sense at all, really. Yoda fled the fight by virtue of Sidious's command of Republic legislative procedure and rhetorical prowess.





Except, of course, when it undermines a character youone doesn't like.

Sarcasm and the historians' meaning aside, that's precisely why Yoda fled after he fell from the Rotunda.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Sarcasm and the historians' meaning aside, that's precisely why Yoda fled after he fell from the Rotunda.

Sidious's command of Republic legislative procedure and rhetorical prowess were intact and well known to Yoda before the fight even began. The proximate cause for Yoda's retreat was because of a disadvantageous position in the fight.

The disadvantage being the contingent of storm troopers and a lack of lightsaber.

Originally posted by jadams3928
The disadvantage being the contingent of storm troopers

According to...?

Originally posted by jadams3928
and a lack of lightsaber.

Remind me, did he lose it in a political debate or a fight to the death?

If by "lose" you mean "fell off the podium", then you're correct. But if we're playing that game, he technically dominated that fight, symbolized by Sidious' O-Face.

Originally posted by jadams3928
If by "lose" you mean "fell off the podium", then you're correct.

facepalm

I said "lose it" (i.e. the lightsaber).

Originally posted by jadams3928
But if we're playing that game, he technically dominated that fight, symbolized by Sidious' O-Face.

haermm

No, we aren't playing a game. You're currently riding Nai's nuts on a retarded issue because he happens to share your views on another.

Pick another topic to cement your unholy allegiance. Because crediting Yoda's retreat with Sidious's political skills is indefensibly stupid.

Nai: Even though I joined KMC back in 12/05 and have changed my name multiple times, I was on hiatus for several years, including the time when Gideon posted his legendary/notorious essay. I have seen that thread, but haven't actually read through the 12 pages. So when you refer to Gideon, I'm assuming he said similar points in that paper.


Originally posted by Nai
The New Essential Chronology is written fromt he perspective of an in-universe historian. And while Gideon has attempted to establish the idea, that the context of this comment is a fight, so "power" must refer to Sidious lightsaber and force abilities, he has been pretty much wrong with that contention.
"Context" is a term referring to everything influencing a situation of communication. That situation of communication is not a fight of Sidious and Yoda, but a historian talking about historical events that have happened 60 years in the past. As a result, said historian would be familiar with the events that occured after that confrontation, including Sidious rise to Galactic Rule, including his political and military power.
And now, the role of the historian is the thing that decides the content of the term "power" here. As a scientist, the historian would just pass on data, that can be validated, which is utterly impossible for Sidious force abilities or lightsaber skill in comparison to all other Sith Lords in history. Even so, if only because of the fact, that most of said Sith Lords are completely unknown. So the statement, even if accurate, most likely refers to things that can be validated: military power and political influence.

I can see what you are trying to say, but I feel you are over-analyzing the sentence. While the background of many Sith, let alone their abilities, are completely unknown, many powerful figures are known. The exploits, including descriptions of Force mastery and lightsaber prowess, of individuals such as Exar Kun, Revan, Vitiate, and Sidious would definitely be well recognized throughout the annals of history. I think it is safe to say that historians would be able to correctly describe Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord out of all known in the Order.

Secondly, putting aside his sarcasm, I have to agree with Tempest. The 'fight' between Sidious and Yoda was direct combat, not any engagement over some theater of war or the hall of the Galactic Senate. They are saying that Grandmaster Yoda, for all his skill in the lightsaber and expertise in the Force, could not overcome the Sith considered to be the "most powerful" overall in Force/lightsaber combat. Simply put, having "most powerful" refer to "military power" or "political influence" in that sentence doesn't make any sense - it would be out of context and wouldn't add anything.




Do you doubt Vader?





This is your opinion of how sources should be interpreted, ergo I will not argue against any of this (and I agree with some it as well).

Originally posted by Nai
The New Essential Chronology is written fromt he perspective of an in-universe historian. And while Gideon has attempted to establish the idea, that the context of this comment is a fight, so "power" must refer to Sidious lightsaber and force abilities, he has been pretty much wrong with that contention.
"Context" is a term referring to everything influencing a situation of communication. That situation of communication is not a fight of Sidious and Yoda, but a historian talking about historical events that have happened 60 years in the past. As a result, said historian would be familiar with the events that occured after that confrontation, including Sidious rise to Galactic Rule, including his political and military power.
And now, the role of the historian is the thing that decides the content of the term "power" here. As a scientist, the historian would just pass on data, that can be validated, which is utterly impossible for Sidious force abilities or lightsaber skill in comparison to all other Sith Lords in history. Even so, if only because of the fact, that most of said Sith Lords are completely unknown. So the statement, even if accurate, most likely refers to things that can be validated: military power and political influence.


So what you're saying the historian meant was: "Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in historyonly sith lord who ruled the galaxy"

Is that what you're saying?

No I believe what he's saying is that the in-universe historian who wrote the quote has no basis to declare Sidious more powerful than beings who lived thousands of years before him.

Yes I know. But it seems like he is trying to explain what the historian meant when he labeled Sidious as the most power sith in history. The context or whatever.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Which you failed to elaborate, you make an argument that all clones are easier to kill off, and now when i prove you wrong, you magically change your stance on the matter.
For someone as powerful and lethal in the Force as Vitiate or close, it would be (logically) easy to destroy such clone bodies in a duel which are vulnerable to the impact of dark side energies. Continue to read below.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Again, you don't get my point which further proves your incompetence as a "debater", i wasn't disputing Vitiates power level idiot, you just actually failed to grasp at the point i was making.
You don't get to hide your incompetence with such taunts.

Here is the thread title for you: DE Sidious -vs- The Emperor (Lord Vitiate)

Which opponent for Sidious do you think I would be keeping in mind when I am making a point in this thread? Huh?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Which you did not state at all earlier in any of your posts. All you kept arguing about was how fragile all clone bodies are. Again, this proves your incompetence in an actual coherant debate.


When you loose an argument, is this your usual taunt in response? Self-proclaimed competent one?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And um yeah? Sidious only needed his hands to unleash his powers? So are you arguing that his or Vitiates vast reserves of force powers only comes from their hands?
Calling upon the Force shouldn't have an impact on the condition of a clone body IMO unless I am missing something in this context.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Then yes, it would further affect his deteriorating body, by simply making it age faster.


So (as an example) if Vitiate bombards Sidious's clone body with his extremely potent Force Lightning; the clone body will simply age further? Your competence is praise worthy.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Which iv already responded to.
And you failed to make any sense out of it.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
You can try you paki, seriously, just try.

Empty threats do not scare me. If you continue down this road, I will make sure that you get banned.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Did YOU check the actual source? Honestly, knowing your character, you probably don't even have the source materials as you outright stated you're an old republic era fanboy, so its highly unlikely you even have any of these sources that are not of TOR material.
This source has been cited: Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

Self-proclaimed competent. Epic fail.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Again, see my response about his aging.
Which is inadequate.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Simply put, you don't have a response.
I can say the same about you.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Palpatine and the DSSB itself states that the effects of the dark side are the sole things responsible for palpatines aging clone bodies. The more power he exerts, the more it adds to his deterioration.
Mention the quotes and page numbers.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
He isn't as vulnerable to the point as you put it, or his own massive scale force powers would have ripped him to shreds on the spot.
Like I said, did he unleash his deadly powers on himself to test the durability of his clone bodies?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And Sidious powers are powerful enough to engulf entire planets while rip the fabrics of space and time with ease, whats your point? Both are extremely powerful individuals.
This;

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
DE incarnation of Palpatine pack a major weakness and also advantage. Major weakness is that this incarnation, if in clone body, will be extremely vulnerable against deadly dark side powers. Clone body can be easily destroyed by such powers. Major advantage is the ability of this incarnation to summon a Force Storm which can destroy any mortal being/materialistic object.

So both DE Palpatine and Vitiate are capable of destroying each other's bodies.

Get the memo? My stand on this matter is crystal clear since the start of this thread.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ok.
Concession accepted.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Actually you are. You've asked me to show you one clone that survived for more than a year, you didn't specify if its the palpatine clone, or just clones in general. Its not my fault your command of the english language is utter shit.
If you would have bothered to check my very first response in this thread, you would have noticed that I am talking about Palpatine's imperfect clones in this thread. Its not my fault if you lack in common sense and skim through pages.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
AGAIN you change your stance and argument when i prove you wrong, you really think im this stupid to think i don't know that you got this bit of info straight from wookiepedia after i told you the amount of clones that survived for more than a year?
So what? Wookieepedia makes it convenient for the potential readers to determine the sources from which the information has been gathered. If Wiki is such a useless medium, why the hell so many people consult it?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Pretty doubtful, considering that anybody that disagrees with you is "instantly labelled an OT/PT worshipper"
No. Members (Nai) and (Nephthys) take interest in both modern era and ancient era lores. Yet, they keep an open mind. Even member (DARTH POWER) keeps an open mind regardless of him not taking much interest in the ancient era lore. Their would be few more.

But then you have members (The_Tempest), (SIDIOUS 66) and few others like these who will always debate in favour of modern era lore and are beyond reasoning.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Because you ARE one!
It feels good to keep a check on PT/OT fanboyism.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
And one such fanboy is you.
I have my reasons.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Because such techniques can be defended against.
Enlighten me.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Um ok?
Concession accepted again.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Not when your opponent is a force user.
Inadequate point.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Do your homework properly moron, Vitiate didn't "conceal" his phantoms presence against the Hero, he was on the friggin stairs right infront of the hero when he summoned the phantoms in which the hero reacted by turning his back to strike down the phantoms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyAfEgYAMo

It starts at 11:50.
In the 'finalized version' of this duel;

Initially, Vitiate summoned some phantoms without himself participating in the fight. After those phantoms were struck down, Vitiate then approached the position of Hero of Tython and resumed the fight. During this scenario, Vitiate summoned more phantoms alongside himself to confuse Hero of Tython.

Until this duel is canonically explained, it would be useless exercise to debate on whose point of view is correct.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes I know. But it seems like he is trying to explain what the historian meant when he labeled Sidious as the most power sith in history. The context or whatever.

He offered a different interpretation of what the historian could have easily meant. Point is it's a fallible source anyway.

And btw I'm not actually against Sidious in this argument. But just pointing out your not winning this debate by just using a statement like that.

Originally posted by Arhael
In DE audio book it was lightning Luke used against Emperor, not Force push:

"LUKE: You forget -- I am a Jedi Master now. And I KNOW something about the Dark Side!

Sound: Luke unleashes his OWN Force lightning on the Emperor. The old (young) man crashes against the wall.
"


Really?? Cool!

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Indeed. Why would power refer to combat prowess when the contest in question is a fight? Wouldn't make any sense at all, really. Yoda fled the fight by virtue of Sidious's command of Republic legislative procedure and rhetorical prowess.

Well he kind of did.. I mean it's not like Yoda fled because Sidious just outright beat him in combat. And I'm sure the fact that Sidious had his own Empire whilst Yoda was on his lonesome, had a material effect on the decision to flee at the point that he did.

Damn I triple posted.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well he kind of did.. I mean it's not like Yoda fled because Sidious just outright beat him in combat. And I'm sure the fact that Sidious had his own Empire whilst Yoda was on his lonesome, had a material effect on the decision to flee at the point that he did.

haermm

I'm beginning to wonder what horrific crime the English language perpetrated against the three of you that would inspire you to so willfully abuse it.

Yoda referred to Palpatine as "emperor" during their infiltration of the clone-occupied Jedi Temple; he addresses Palpatine himself as such at the beginning of their confrontation beneath the Rotunda; Yoda was painfully aware of the fact that he was on his lonesome and Sidious had an Empire at his disposal before the fight began.

The fact that he elected to initiate and continue the brawl with these two facts in mind undermines the idea that they were the reason he fled. Perhaps they were the reason he never made a second attempt; that would be reasonable.

The reason he fled is because he was unarmed. He didn't drop his lightsaber out of awe of the Emperor's ability to recite bureaucratic procedure.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

No, we aren't playing a game. You're currently riding Nai's nuts on a retarded issue because he happens to share your views on another.

With this logic, it's no wonder you're losing the debate. Let me try.. You're riding Sidious66/Arhael's nuts because they happen to share your views.

Originally posted by jadams3928
With this logic, it's no wonder you're losing the debate. Let me try.. You're riding Sidious66/Arhael's nuts because they happen to share your views.

Tell me, what kind of nut-riding is it when I openly question one (Arhael), correct another (SIDIOUS_66) and a third (-KV-), who openly share my views?

I must be doing it wrong. But you have plenty of experience in this regard, you can give me some pointers.

If you'd be so kind as to point out any of your corrections of the numerous errors and fallacies committed by Nai, Neph, and S_W_LeGenD?

You'll have to point out how many times I've addressed Neph or Legend in the last week or so? Furthermore, I DID correct Nai when he said Vitiate was 16 before he was summoned by Ragnos

And finally, you don't see me responding to arguments that I like with a resounding "YEA".

Originally posted by jadams3928
You'll have to point out how many times I've addressed Neph or Legend in the last week or so?

That's precisely the point, innit? Let's not pretend you have any less of a slant on this enduring debate than the rest of us, across three threads. The only people you've extended any objection to happen to be ones that don't support Vitiate. I may have selected a side, but at least I'm man enough to (1) admit it and (2) question/call out my confederates when they're wrong.

Such alarming groupthink from a Texan. You embarrass the South, son. facepalm

Originally posted by jadams3928
Furthermore, I DID correct Nai when he said Vitiate was 16 before he was summoned by Ragnos

Where?

Originally posted by jadams3928
And finally, you don't see me responding to arguments that I like with a resounding "YEA".

No one said you did. But for a guy who's been spamming "lol fanboy" at folks, you sure have very particular targets. What separates you from SIDIOUS_66? Are you telling me LeGenD is not a fanboy?

Weird, I remember not slamming Faunus for his sentiments. Perhaps it isn't anyone who disagrees with me but anyone who can provide a valid argument either way?


Of course he is. He's on the other side of Sidious66.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Weird, I remember not slamming Faunus for his sentiments. Perhaps it isn't anyone who disagrees with me but anyone who can provide a valid argument either way?

Horseshit. You don't slam me or Faunus out of abject fear.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Of course he is. He's on the other side of Sidious66.

Seriously, could you be any more offensive to SIDIOUS_66? You've said some mean-spirited things in your day, but that's a new low.

I don't slam anyone making a good argument. That's a fact. And I'm offensive to people who decide to act like retards. I'm sorry I don't treat everyone like the special, delicate flower that they are but that's life.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Of course he is. He's on the other side of Sidious66.
Dude, if you think that I am a fanboy of such a calibre then you perhaps haven't dealt with true fanboys of Ancient/TOR lore.

It would be wise for you to not fall for the propaganda of member (The_Tempest) against me, who himself is proving to be beyond reasoning. His nice English writing skills do not put a cover over his fallacies that many can notice.

I have dealt with some extremely ridiculous and senseless farts from those whom I regard as PT/OT worshippers. The idiocy of arguments from such individuals range from 'Revan used guns and grenades to overcome Malak on STAR Forge' to 'Malak is a fodder Sith' and probably even worse.

Originally posted by jadams3928
I don't slam anyone making a good argument.

You're not making a contrapositive here, are you?
Because you don't slam some people who happen to be, by all reasonable standards, barely-functioning morons.

They're legendary.

get it?

Originally posted by jadams3928
That's a fact. And I'm offensive to people who decide to act like retards. I'm sorry I don't treat everyone like the special, delicate flower that they are but that's life.

All I'm saying is maybe you should buy a girl candy and flowers before you bend her over the table.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dude, if you think that I am a fanboy of such a calibre then you perhaps haven't dealt with true fanboys of Ancient/TOR lore.

It would be wise for you to not fall for the propaganda of member (The_Tempest) against me, who himself is proving to be beyond reasoning. His nice English writing skills do not put a cover over his fallacies that many can notice.

I have dealt with some extremely ridiculous and senseless farts from those whom I regard as PT/OT worshippers. The idiocy of arguments from such individuals range from 'Revan used guns and grenades to overcome Malak on STAR Forge' to 'Malak is a fodder Sith' and probably even worse.

My point is, we are all fanboys to a certain extent. Some defend their position more vigorously than others.


Someone's taken the LSATS.. But no.. If I'm intimately involved in a debate and someone acts like a jackass, I call them out on it. At the same time, NOBODY is objective.


Flowers and candy cost money. Just sayin

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You're not making a contrapositive here, are you?
Because you don't slam some people who happen to be, by all reasonable standards, barely-functioning morons.

They're legendary.

get it?


Originally posted by axel_jovan
This thread has failed to provide convincing argument for Vitiate's combat prowess. As of RotS, Sidious enjoys an advantage in that department and he wins a clear majority against the Sith Emperor. God only knows what DE Sidious would do to him with his ability to conjure Force Storm with "a mere thought.”


Originally posted by jadams3928
My point is, we are all fanboys to a certain extent. Some defend their position more vigorously than others.
Agreed.

I classify people in two categories;

1. Those who can be reasoned with. (This category will scrutinize and reason.)
2. Those who cannot be reasoned with. (This category will mostly make ridiculous claims and judge others.)

Both are fans but the second kind is as worst as it can get.

You and I both rank in first kind.

Originally posted by jadams3928
My point is, we are all fanboys to a certain extent.

I'm glad to read such things from you. I'm feeling a kodak moment.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Some defend their position more vigorously than others.

Why are you bringing my sex life into this?

Originally posted by jadams3928
Someone's taken the LSATS.. But no.. If I'm intimately involved in a debate and someone acts like a jackass, I call them out on it. At the same time, NOBODY is objective.

This one dude named Gideon was...

Originally posted by jadams3928
Flowers and candy cost money. Just sayin

Maybe you should treat us like you treat your beloved wife?

@ jadams3928

Also, note one thing:

You will not see The_Tempest slamming SIDIOUS_66, axel_jovan, and Mizukage_Yoda and similar guys. However, he will slam you for not slamming me, Nai, and others who are on the same page.

And then this guy pretends to be not biased. On top of this, he talks negatively about me whenever he gets the opportunity.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

MY Point is, everyone is biased.

Well that doesn't make sense. If that were so, why would there be so much finger pointing and name-calling in this cruel world?

Originally posted by jadams3928
If this is anything other than DE Sidious, he gets stomped.


This is the same stupid ass statement you keep repeating, but you have yet to explain how.


Originally posted by jadams3928
The only thing Sidious has on Vitiate is sabers


Yup, he has Vitiate in sabers by miles, and he is on par with Vitiate in what Vitiate is best at. And as you should know, when two opponents are close in power, it usually comes down to a lightsaber duel, in which Vitiate doesn't stand a chance.

So again, how does Vitiate stomp Palpatine. Or have you conceded that?


Originally posted by jadams3928
it's unclear as to who, if anybody, can withstand the mental powers of Vitiate.


And then you insult me for saying that Palpatine can outspeed someone who is slower than him.


Originally posted by jadams3928
I don't slam anyone making a good argument.


You mean arguments like, "Vitiate stomps 'cause I say so?"



Originally posted by jadams3928
MY Point is, everyone is biased.


The word "bias" is too weak of a word to describe you.

lol, I remember when you were so excited for the Revan novel to come out. You would read different spoilers and come back here saying things like "Omg Vitiate is a sith god, guys! He's going to blow Palpatine out of the water!" ..I thought it was so cute. But then when the novel came out, you're excitment quickly faded . Now you're just in denial and still make claims like "Vitiate stomps Palpatine," but then when you can't explain how Vitiate will stomp Palpatine, or when someone finds a possible way Vitiate can be defeated, you start to act like a sorry little *****.

Can you back up your claims or not, otherwise why do even keep arguing?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He offered a different interpretation of what the historian could have easily meant. Point is it's a fallible source anyway.

And btw I'm not actually against Sidious in this argument. But just pointing out your not winning this debate by just using a statement like that.


facepalm

What was I debating, DP?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@ jadams3928

Also, note one thing:

You will not see The_Tempest slamming SIDIOUS_66, axel_jovan, and Mizukage_Yoda and similar guys. However, he will slam you for not slamming me, Nai, and others who are on the same page.

And then this guy pretends to be not biased. On top of this, he talks negatively about me whenever he gets the opportunity.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Stop being so sensitive.

The Tempest is a great guy, and a good Debater.

You have to learn to roll with the punches.

I knew I liked you for a reason other than your dreamy eyes.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Stop being so sensitive.

The Tempest is a great guy, and a good Debater.

You have to learn to roll with the punches.
I am being sensitive? Are you his new spokesman or something?

He spares no opportunity to attack me (at personal capacity) at every given opportunity in this forum. I fully know his intentions. He has made his competition with me personal; not me.

When someone will do the same thing with you; then you will understand my position.

I know how to roll with punches. However, I'm past the age of comfortably adjusting with bullying (physical or internet based), and I expect some level of maturity from my opponents in debates. Mature people do not behave like (The_Tempest).

Children, children. Get in the van.

Also I don't remember the last time this place had such a fetishistic interest in a single character. The top four threads all "Vitiate" something? ughblaaarggghh

Originally posted by Eminence
Children, children.

Get in the van.
You take (The_Tempest) for a ride and give him lessons on maturity. He is a spoiled brat and a pretender.