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Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?

I found quote on Wookiepedia which got it from the back of the novel.

Could this quote be true? Has any one read the novel and could state his feats if any?

If that was on the authors thing, that is just to get people interested, I would doubt is credence as canon. (The word is credence, right? Not sure for some reason x.x)

He was, at the time, the strongest Rule of Two Sith ever, though Sidious eventually surpassed him.

Sidious definitely killed him.

It's just back-of-book hype. I have a SF novel which hypes up trying to find the solution to a murder mystery, when the mystery played a big role in the *prior* novel and worrying about it happening was not a big thing in most of the sequel (Cyteen and Regenesis by CJ Cherryh, for reference). Yet from the back, you'd think the second was all about hunting down the killer.

Pwned- Yes, credence works there.

It's part of the publisher's summary, which doesn't really mean much IMHO.

Thats a little strange considering so posters here(which are banned) has constantly used the quotes from the back cover of the LOTF novels to argue Caedus power levels.

I think one such quote was him being even "greater than that of vader"

Yup. But a cursory examination of publisher's summaries across the board reveals some questionable conclusions.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?

I found quote on Wookiepedia which got it from the back of the novel.

Could this quote be true? Has any one read the novel and could state his feats if any?

No, Sidous displayed greater disparity in DE.

We have another contender:

Sith Emperor have been described as the history's most powerful dark side master in a recent canon source: Star Wars The Old Republic Encylopedia.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We have another contender:

Sith Emperor have been described as the history's most powerful dark side master in a recent canon source: Star Wars The Old Republic Encylopedia.

Now that one's actually a pretty easy argument to make.

Originally posted by Q99
Now that one's actually a pretty easy argument to make.
His ultimate plan is to become a Godlike omipotent being. He has done his full homework to accomplish this feat but suffers a set back after Lord Scourge betrays him and helps Hero of Tython in stopping him because the Emperor plans to exterminate the entire Galaxy in which Star Wars is taking place.

Well let's put it into perspective.

We are talking about raw pure command of Force energy.

There are only three "Sith" that surpass Plagueis in that sense, and they all did something he didn't to achieve that kind of power, Force Drain. These three Sith were DE Palpatine, Vitiate, and Darth Nihilus.

Plagueis most likely could have succeeded where Sidious failed, he probably could have over-powered Mace Windu and his lackeys. He could probably trash the likes of the Starkiller Clone or even Satele Shan. He was stronger than Sidious pre-Dark Empire era.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?

I found quote on Wookiepedia which got it from the back of the novel.

Could this quote be true? Has any one read the novel and could state his feats if any? Plagueis & most powerful sith = nonsense. Plagueis was not the most powerful sith, nor was he the first to learn how to manipulate midiclorians into creating force-made-life. Ajunta Pall was the first to discover how to create life using midiclorians, which made his teachings viewed by the jedi as abominations, he was exiled and became the first dark lord of the sith. Plagueis is just a wannabe immortal & thief.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We have another contender:

Sith Emperor have been described as the history's most powerful dark side master in a recent canon source: Star Wars The Old Republic Encylopedia. Darth Nihilus would devour "the sith emporer"


That would-be sith emporer had to use sith sorcery to destroy a planet, and attempted to do the same to a galaxy and failed. Darth Nihilus used the technique that was just as old as the sith themselfs, (Hunger) he used his hunger to devour entire planets wiping them clean of life both physically and in-the-force.

If Darth Nihilus had complete control over his hunger he would be deemed unstoppable, almost like Marka Ragnos when he was in his prime during his lifetime.

You same to be very caught up in the obscurities of the ancient Sith.

Ajunta Pall was one of the first Dark Jedi to go Dark Side, but he had not abilities in Midi-chlorian manipulation in comparison to Plagueis, who could stop death. And Ajunta Pall certainly never created life, ever.

That was a ritual that required the concentration of two extremely power Sith Lords, Plagueis and Sidious..the ritual was not designed to create life, but rather to thwart the light side, which retaliated in the conception of the potentially most powerful being in the mythos.

Palpatine mutilated the truth behind Anakin's conception, by claiming it was the Dark Side that created life, it was really the light side, the Living Force Qui-Gon Jinn studied. It was the only true path to immortality, as well as the creation of life, the Living Force can do anything it pleases. Dark Side Spirits are the same as Light Side Spirits, however, as the Dark Side is just a pervesion of the Living Force, with a malevolent will. It's just the Sith have a way of provoking the Living Force that the Jedi don't.

I think it would be hard to determine which Sith was the more powerful as of the Darth Plagueis novel. I don't think Sidious killing Plagueis means Sidious was more powerful, as there was never a fight, only deception.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
I think it would be hard to determine which Sith was the more powerful as of the Darth Plagueis novel. I don't think Sidious killing Plagueis means Sidious was more powerful, as there was never a fight, only deception.

Other than the fact that his abilities in the Force exceeded his apprentice? Other than the fact that he could disentigrate opponents much like Vitiate? Yeah.

Only problem with this is that we don't know exactly how Ajunta 'created' life.

He definitely created new life-forms, along with his allies.

Their group of 12, including Ajunta Pall, Muur and XoXaan, invented the Transfer Essence technique, and made the first Leviathans. They're also responsible for the Rakghoul plague (mostly Muur on that one).

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Darth Nihilus would devour "the sith emporer"
This is your opinion; not a proven fact.

Fact is that Sith Emperor emerged unscathed from an event that was similar in nature to that of Nihilus's attack on Katarr.

I guess that "immortality" changes the game; I don't recall a single event in the mythos in which Sith Emperor got hurt by a Force based attack.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
That would-be sith emporer had to use sith sorcery to destroy a planet,
So? Sith Sorcery can also be performed during combat situations. Sith Sorcery doesn't precludes an individual's command of the dark side; it represents it.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
and attempted to do the same to a galaxy and failed.
Very short-sighted assessment; he would have destroyed the Galaxy but was STOPPED. Try to note the difference.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Darth Nihilus used the technique that was just as old as the sith themselfs, (Hunger) he used his hunger to devour entire planets wiping them clean of life both physically and in-the-force.
Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia regards this information as a legend, mind you. We only have Visas's perspective to consider for this information which is open to scrutiny. The source itself is titled "Unseen Unheard" which implies that the information contained in it is open to interpretation (leave audience guessing).

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
If Darth Nihilus had complete control over his hunger he would be deemed unstoppable, almost like Marka Ragnos when he was in his prime during his lifetime.
Maybe!

Marka Ragnos was certainly a master of the dark side but Vitiate surpassed him in power canonically as disclosed in this thread.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is your opinion; not a proven fact.

Fact is that Sith Emperor emerged unscathed from an event that was similar in nature to that of Nihilus's attack on Katarr.

I guess that "immortality" changes the game; I don't recall a single event in the mythos in which Sith Emperor got hurt by a Force based attack.


So? Sith Sorcery can also be performed during combat situations. Sith Sorcery doesn't precludes an individual's command of the dark side; it represents it.


Very short-sighted assessment; he would have destroyed the Galaxy but was STOPPED. Try to note the difference.


Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia regards this information as a legend, mind you. We only have Visas's perspective to consider for this information which is open to scrutiny. The source itself is titled "Unseen Unheard" which implies that the information contained in it is open to interpretation (leave audience guessing).


Maybe!

Marka Ragnos was certainly a master of the dark side but Vitiate surpassed him in power canonically as disclosed in this thread. No Darth Nihilus was confirmed to be as powerful as he was stated not only by just Visas Marr (Who witnessed the destruction of her home planet first-hand), but Darth Traya. (Which is one of the most intellectual dark lords of the sith)

Vitiate NEVER surpassed Ragnos. Marka Ragnos is the most powerful Dark lord of the sith. He lived for 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic and became a Sith lord in his last years, he demonstrated that he could turn enemy on enemy with ease, while possessing tremendous strength both physically and in-the-force even though he had a aged body. And for as long as he ruled no one dared to oppose him not even the likes of Vitiate, in fact Trenbrae earned the name Vitiate after his training under Ragnos was complete, which explains how he broke the wills of 8,000 sith lords at once not too long after his training under ragnos was complete.

And another thing was Vitiate didn't live as long as Marka Ragnos, even though he supposedly became immortal, he passed away. (it was already confirmed on the plagueis novel that Vitiate passed away) Depending on how long one lives determines one's strength in the force and Vitiate's "immortality" pales in comparison, he only lived for 7,000 years and died in a coffen somewhere after he ran out of Sith lords to feed off of.

Tavion should have choosen to ressurect Vitiate since you think he was the most powerful, but she didn't. Luke Skywalker the seemingly most powerful jedi of all time said himself, that If Marka Ragnos was ever ressurected back at his full power and body restored, ALL J E D I EVERYWHERE will die.

There was a reason why it was said that Ragnos was the most powerful force user in Sith history and Jedi history.

Minor correction: You added an extra word in there. He lived 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic (or in other words, around 5,000 BBY), not for 20,000 years.

Originally posted by Q99
Minor correction: You added an extra word in there. He lived 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic (or in other words, around 5,000 BBY), not for 20,000 years. No minor correction. Marka Ragnos lived for 20,000 years due to his tremendous growing strength, without using vitiate's method. Vitiate lived for 7,000 years and died in a coffen somewhere after he ran out of his sith lord food supply. Marka Ragnos became a sith lord in his last years, he ruled for 100 years unopposed and died shortly after his golden age century long rule.

Not to mention that it was already said that Marka Ragnos was born long before 5,000 BBY.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
No minor correction. Marka Ragnos lived for 20,000 years

Dude, nothing says that.

Wookiepedia doesn't say that (no 'for'), and I have the original comic which is the source of the quote.

The original comic definitely doesn't say that either.


You need to stop your 'misread something then treat it as gospel truth' thing.

Originally posted by Q99
Dude, nothing says that.

Wookiepedia doesn't say that (no 'for'), and I have the original comic which is the source of the quote.

The original comic definitely doesn't say that either.


You need to stop your 'misread something then treat it as gospel truth' thing. No i didn't misread anything, go back to Marka Ragnos's biography and click on lived for 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic. That link leads to circa 5,100 BBY. During that time, he decided to become a sith in his last years and dueled simus for the title of Dark Lord Of the Sith. Its all but unknown as to what Ragnos was doing for 19,999 years. Thats why the link takes you to circa 5,100 BBY, when he began making notable achievements. And afterwards he died in 5,000 BBY, ending the golden age of the sith empire. He was already noted to be born long before 5,100 BBY or 5,000 BBY.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
No i didn't misread anything, go back to Marka Ragnos's biography and click on lived for 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic. That link leads to circa 5,100 BBY.

5,100 BBY is 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic. It's two ways of saying the same thing.

There is no word 'for' in the sentence. Nothing says he lived 20k years, you're misreading again.


One of his rivals from when he first became Sith lord is also notably still alive, Lord Simus.




Specifically, it said "Ragnos lived for over a hundred years." Also, his rulership only started somewhat over a century too.

How much over, we don't know precisely, but nothing described him as surviving for thousands of years, just that it's over 100 years as-of when he died in 5,000 BBY (which, btw, is where wookiepedia got the 'born before 5,100' number from, 5,000 - 100+).


Now, if someone lived for 20,000, why would you describe that as 'over 100 years,' consistently, and why would you never mention living thousands of years, and why would one of his rivals still be alive?


Heck, the Sith Empire was only founded in 6,900 BBY! And at that point, the Dark Jedi Exiles were said to have kicked the butt


If he lived for 20k years, that means that he did almost nothing for 18k, then some upstarts came and took over, then for something around 1,800-1,900 years remained not-the-leader, and then had a close rival at that point. It paints a pretty pathetic picture, all in all.


Double heck, Marka Ragnos was a sith hybrid directly descended from the original Dark Jedi Exiles of the Hundred Years Darkness! And they only met the Sith in 6,900!

He's descended from people who moved to Korriban in 6,900. So, he's apparently 13,100 years older than his own grandpa, eh?


"Once we were mighty Jedi of the Republic, brothers in the Force but the Great Schism between the Dark side and the Light turned Jedi against Jedi. Our ancestors were defeated, driven off, cast out! But we turned our exile into victory, here on the far side of the galaxy. In these unblemished worlds we found the Sith people treated us as Gods! After many centuries some of us have interbred with the Sith while others still bear true Jedi blood. Our Sith Empire is great, rich, and powerful. This is our Golden Age."
―Marka Ragnos, Dark Lord of the Sith


Marka himself talks about his ancestors, the Exiles of the Hundred Year Darkness, which was 6,900 BBY.

Originally posted by Q99


5,100 BBY is 20,000 years after the formation of the old republic. It's two ways of saying the same thing.

There is no word 'for' in the sentence. Nothing says he lived 20k years, you're misreading again.


One of his rivals from when he first became Sith lord is also notably still alive, Lord Simus.




Specifically, it said "Ragnos lived for over a hundred years." Also, his rulership only started somewhat over a century too.

How much over, we don't know precisely, but nothing described him as surviving for thousands of years, just that it's over 100 years as-of when he died in 5,000 BBY (which, btw, is where wookiepedia got the 'born before 5,100' number from, 5,000 - 100+).


Now, if someone lived for 20,000, why would you describe that as 'over 100 years,' consistently, and why would you never mention living thousands of years, and why would one of his rivals still be alive?


Heck, the Sith Empire was only founded in 6,900 BBY! And at that point, the Dark Jedi Exiles were said to have kicked the butt


If he lived for 20k years, that means that he did almost nothing for 18k, then some upstarts came and took over, then for something around 1,800-1,900 years remained not-the-leader, and then had a close rival at that point. It paints a pretty pathetic picture, all in all.


Double heck, Marka Ragnos was a sith hybrid directly descended from the original Dark Jedi Exiles of the Hundred Years Darkness! And they only met the Sith in 6,900!

He's descended from people who moved to Korriban in 6,900. So, he's apparently 13,100 years older than his own grandpa, eh?


"Once we were mighty Jedi of the Republic, brothers in the Force but the Great Schism between the Dark side and the Light turned Jedi against Jedi. Our ancestors were defeated, driven off, cast out! But we turned our exile into victory, here on the far side of the galaxy. In these unblemished worlds we found the Sith people treated us as Gods! After many centuries some of us have interbred with the Sith while others still bear true Jedi blood. Our Sith Empire is great, rich, and powerful. This is our Golden Age."
―Marka Ragnos, Dark Lord of the Sith


Marka himself talks about his ancestors, the Exiles of the Hundred Year Darkness, which was 6,900 BBY. They met the sith in 7,001 BBY. No it was already said that he was born LONG before 5,100 BBY, he wasn't in his late 100's when he died more like late thousands.

It was specifically siad that his rule lasted for over a century, not his lifespan.

Simus only survived his head being removed only to serve as Ragnos's example to the dark council.

It still dosen't change the fact that Marka Ragnos is the most powerful force user in jedi & sith history.

20,000 years is short for 2,000 xD.

'Over a century' is the longest number we have for anything about him.

Could be 200, could be 300. No specifics. Also, the longer his lift span, the more time he spent as a subordinate and not in charge. Honestly I can't picture someone as talented in the force as him being second-fiddle for *that* long.



Nope, they arrived at Korriban at the end of the Hundred-Years Darkness. The HYD started in 7,003 and lasted until 6,900. It was only with their defeat that they went to Korriban.



The sources only say he was among the most powerful.



So, you're arguing... that because one number is impossible, it's another number that's also never been mentioned in respect to his age?

And that'd still make him older than his own grandpa, so, nope.

Was he killed by his apprentice a little too early? Would he and his apprentice live for eternity?

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Was he killed by his apprentice a little too early? Would he and his apprentice live for eternity?

Yes truly. He would have been able.

Everyone here forgot that Darth Tenebrous stripped Plagueis of foresight, and this caused him not to foresee his own death.

With all respect to my favourite sith (Darth Sidious), I feel Plagueis would have beaten him in a duel, which James Luceno also feels (in an facebook interview)

Originally posted by darth venki

With all respect to my favourite sith (Darth Sidious), I feel Plagueis would have beaten him in a duel, which James Luceno also feels (in an facebook interview)

At the time, yes, but Sidious kept studying after he died and likely grew stronger.

Originally posted by Q99
At the time, yes, but Sidious kept studying after he died and likely grew stronger.
TPM Sidious < TPM Plagueis < ROTS Sidious
Sidious later got greater access to the Sith holocrons after his master's death. So he'd have surpassed Plagueis by then considering Luceno felt they were pretty close in power in TPM.

Originally posted by Vensai
TPM Sidious < TPM Plagueis < ROTS Sidious
Sidious later got greater access to the Sith holocrons after his master's death. So he'd have surpassed Plagueis by then considering Luceno felt they were pretty close in power in TPM.


Exactly.

TPM Sidious vs Plagueis is more even than some probably people think.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
TPM Sidious vs Plagueis is more even than some probably people think.
It's hard to judge based on their limited feats from the book. Most just go with Luceno's view that Plagueis had some degree of an edge over his apprentice.

Originally posted by Vensai
It's hard to judge based on their limited feats from the book. Most just go with Luceno's view that Plagueis had some degree of an edge over his apprentice.
An edge? Sure. A big one? Not at all. Sidious, at this point, has strength feats on par, speed feats on par, superior skill showings and, although not on Plagueis's level, impressive demonstration of power.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
An edge? Sure. A big one? Not at all. Sidious, at this point, has strength feats on par, speed feats on par, superior skill showings and, although not on Plagueis's level, impressive demonstration of power.
I meant Plagueis had an edge due to his experience and midichlorian manipulation. They both proved capable of fighting armies.

Ragnos IS the most powerful sithlord. Thats just a fact.

I love this quote from the book. It's Plagueis making a 17 year old Palpatine his Sith apprentice after his amazing talk with him..


Plagueis: "Then kneel before me. And pledge that it is your will to join your destiny forever with the Order of the Sith Lords.."

(Young Palpatine kneels and repeats pledge.)

Palgueis: "Then it is done. From this day forward, the truth of you, now and forevermore, will be,.... Sidious. In time, you will come to understand that you are one with the Dark Side of the Force, and that your power is beyond contradiction. But just now, and until I tell you differently, abiding submission is your only road to salvation.."



lol, cool huh?

Luceno really lawyer'd the shit out of that whole "murdered in his sleep" angle. Plagueis barely closed his eyes before Palpatine took his shot, woke him up, and ranted to him before dying.

The death scene was terrible upon subsequent rereads, Palpatine's verbal smackdown notwithstanding.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Luceno really lawyer'd the shit out of that whole "murdered in his sleep" angle. Plagueis barely closed his eyes before Palpatine took his shot, woke him up, and ranted to him before dying.

The death scene was terrible upon subsequent rereads, Palpatine's verbal smackdown notwithstanding.
To be specific, Plagueis was caught off guard, drunk, and feeling overconfident regarding the Naboo invasion. Sidious also targeted Plagueis' weak spot involving his mask. What did you want? Sidious to just stab Plagueis with his lightsaber. Granted, Plagueis' stripped away precognition wouldn't have alerted him to the danger.

Palpatine mutilated the truth behind Anakin's conception, by claiming it was the Dark Side that created life, it was really the light side, the Living Force Qui-Gon Jinn studied. It was the only true path to immortality, as well as the creation of life, the Living Force can do anything it pleases. Dark Side Spirits are the same as Light Side Spirits, however, as the Dark Side is just a pervesion of the Living Force, with a malevolent will. It's just the Sith have a way of provoking the Living Force that the Jedi don't.

The living Force and the light side are not synonymous. The living Force contains both light and dark, as we should expect from an energy field generated by the totality of the galaxy's life-forms. The dark side is not a perversion of anything. In Lucas' words it is part of the "core of the Force".

I thought Lucas described it as a cancer?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought Lucas described it as a cancer?
And yet TCW showed Mortis being governed by three beings, one of which was the embodiment of the dark side.

To be honest, debates about "most powerful characters" are typically useless. Several characters have received such promotion officially thus far and all of them have dedicated fans. It is unlikely to reach a consensus in this kind of conflicting scenario. Funny possibility is that an official consensus does not exists in this regard either.