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Voldemort
Severus Snape
Albus Dumbledore
Bellatrix LeStrange
Alastor 'Mad-Eye' Moody

vs

Darth Sidious
Anakin Skywalker
Yoda
Obi Wan Kenobi
Mace Windu

Match takes place in the neutral ground of Times Sqaure, Manhattan.

Does HP magic whiz all over the Jedi/Sith, or do the J/S violently force themselves onto the wizards and sell the tape afterward to a child pornographer?

*This is just a test of raw power. Thus, Force Precog is not allowed here. If someone tries to loophole around that, then to make it even, the HP wizards will have the Time Turner. Horcruxes and potions are not allowed either. This is pure wand-to-force combat.

Kidding, right?

No. This is a very even match up taking place on neutral ground, not at Hogwarts where the wizards have all the resources and prep they could wish for.

Ahhh, Force percog is part of their powers, it's not an outside object like time turners, horcruxes and potions.

I think my light response here sums it up well: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t574015.html

The wizards have no chance. Those who need implements and vocal commands to make their powers work would be utterly destroyed by those whose powers work at the speed of thought and whose medium, the Force, literally surrounds and inundates every being in the vicinity.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I think my light response here sums it up well: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t574015.html

The wizards have no chance. Those who need implements and vocal commands to make their powers work would be utterly destroyed by those whose powers work at the speed of thought and whose medium, the Force, literally surrounds and inundates every being in the vicinity. Lulz, no. Shitload of non verbal and non wand attacks for the wizards to use.



Originally posted by Lestov16
No. This is a very even match up taking place on neutral ground, not at Hogwarts where the wizards have all the resources and prep they could wish for. Force precog is the Jedi's greatest weapon. Taking that away is like de-toothing a shark.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey

Force precog is the Jedi's greatest weapon. Taking that away is like de-toothing a shark.

What are the limits of their precog? It's definitely not Matrix Oracle level precog, as shown by the fact that Palpatine wasn't anticipating Luke's refusal or Vader's betrayal.





`

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Lulz, no. Shitload of non verbal and non wand attacks for the wizards to use.




Mind pointing out a few? I don't recall anything in Potter where they didn't at least wield a wand. To be fair I always just thought it was okay and didn't care too much, but seems like that would have stuck out.

It's TK vs conduit-based transmutation.

Originally posted by Lestov16
What are the limits of their precog? It's definitely not Matrix Oracle level precog, as shown by the fact that Palpatine wasn't anticipating Luke's refusal or Vader's betrayal.





` I'm talking battle precog, the ability to react in a millisecond and block a blaster bolt. Foresight is different.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Mind pointing out a few? I don't recall anything in Potter where they didn't at least wield a wand. To be fair I always just thought it was okay and didn't care too much, but seems like that would have stuck out. Fiendfyre for one, and when Harry inflated his evil Aunt. Too many to name.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Fiendfyre for one, and when Harry inflated his evil Aunt. Too many to name.
Well please throw out a few more. It's protocol to support your argument with examples, and as of now the wizards are out back.

Out back? In Australia?

Might as well be, cause they're all gonna die.

The Jedi/Sith win. They are too fast, and have battle precognition.

Wizards rape. You picked the most powerful wizards with a bunch of wide area attacks and just too much raw power. Voldemort alone would waste them with the fire serpent spell, and Dumbledore would do the same with his fire spell. And that's just one spell they could use. The Jedi/Sith will never get close enough.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Wizards rape. You picked the most powerful wizards with a bunch of wide area attacks and just too much raw power. Voldemort alone would waste them with the fire serpent spell, and Dumbledore would do the same with his fire spell. And that's just one spell they could use. The Jedi/Sith will never get close enough. Logic.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Wizards rape. You picked the most powerful wizards with a bunch of wide area attacks and just too much raw power. Voldemort alone would waste them with the fire serpent spell, and Dumbledore would do the same with his fire spell. And that's just one spell they could use. The Jedi/Sith will never get close enough.
How are they going to use their spells when they can't use their mouths or their bodies because the Force users have taken control? How are they going to cast a spell when a Force user ruptures every blood vessel in their brains, or crushes their hearts in their chests, etc, etc?

Lucas may not have allowed such graphic deaths to be portrayed, but the Force is more than capable for creating such swift and to the point demises. Heck, people have had their necks snapped before they even knew what was happening, or been turned to pulp by a Force blast.

The wizards have no chance.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
How are they going to use their spells when they can't use their mouths or their bodies because the Force users have taken control?

Easy, The wizards use non verbal spells or just apparate away.



Because they can apparate away AND cast spells faster than force attacks can be cast.

Read MVF rules.

Nah, they rape. Accept it.

Again, you've yet to provide any examples, as in actual proof, of the wizards in the film doing anything of consequence without wand in hand or speaking, or a combination of the two. Bottom line is that Force users, even citing films only, can act at the speed of thought. Wands can be ripped from hands, windpipes crushed, buildings torn down on their heads without a word being spoken or a gesture being made towards the target. Heck, all that I cited there is pretty much Vader only. I haven't even had to bother going into Sidious or any of what went down in Episodes I-III.

The wizards are on zero here until you provide actual examples that show otherwise.

Team Voldemort stomps. This isn't close. The jedi/sith are no match for the Harry Potter's baddest.

not this same old tired debate.. Team force stomps..

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Again, you've yet to provide any examples, as in actual proof, of the wizards in the film doing anything of consequence without wand in hand or speaking, or a combination of the two. Fiendfyre is really all the proof you need of magic that requires no wand and/or incantation. There's also apparating.

As for spells that require no wand, there's Confundus and Oppugno. Let's say a wizard is caught in a force choke (not gonna happen because they can apparate instantly), well, if they ARE caught in a force choke, all they have to do is apparate away (and no, being force choked will NOT prevent them from apparating) and utter "Confundus" or "Oppugno." BTW, if you have no idea what these spells do, you have no business posting in this thread.


Need more examples?

All before the wizards apparate away, instantly? Nah.


Sidious is on fire. He's a crispy Sith.

Just did. Gimmee a bit and I'll post more, I'm at work right now.





Originally posted by quanchi112
Team Voldemort stomps. This isn't close. The jedi/sith are no match for the Harry Potter's baddest. They know.

As demonstrated in the prequels, Force users can move beyond the speed of visual acuity. You can't crisp what you can't see. Force step behind, lightning until dead, saber through the chest, Force wave to a pulp, and on and on.

You're not uttering anything when you're locked in the Force and have no knowledge of how to command it to save yourself. Your arguments are weak, period.

The wizards die time and time again.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
As demonstrated in the prequels, Force users can move beyond the speed of visual acuity. You can't crisp what you can't see. Force step behind, lightning until dead, saber through the chest, Force wave to a pulp, and on and on.

Lol, you didn't read a word I posted. Try again.

Fiendfyre, dude. Do you have any idea what Fiendfyre is and it's characteristics? It is a conscious being. It has thought. When a wizard casts it, the wizard commands it. Whatever said command is, that is the sole thought on the Fiendfyre's mind. It cannot be extinguished or altered in any way by anyone except the caster. It is hotter than normal fire and can be as large as the wizard wants and assume any shape the wizard wants.


My dear sweet Lord, you never listen. The wizards can attack without uttering incantations. They can also attack without wands. Wizard gets force choked, they apparate away and cast fiendfyre. The Jedi have absolutely NO counter for this. All they can do is run for their lives. But the Fiendfyre will get them in the end. Might take some time due the the speed of the Jedi (not too long though because the Jedi can only force speed in spurts) but in the end they burn. The only time/s Fiendfyre is shown onscreen being "countered" is when Dumbledore fended it off against Voldemort. BUT.....He did so using......Survey says....MAGIC!!! And he's the ****in' Dumbledore. The Jedi have no magic. So again, Fiendfyre>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jedi. All day, every day.


All I see here are people arguing against the wizards without the slightest idea of how Harry Potter magic works. And before you turn that on me by saying "Derp you have no idea how the Force works", I'd bet my left nut I know far more about Star Wars than you ever will.

I see. "Just cuz", right?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Again, you've yet to provide any examples, as in actual proof, of the wizards in the film doing anything of consequence without wand in hand or speaking, or a combination of the two. Bottom line is that Force users, even citing films only, can act at the speed of thought. Wands can be ripped from hands, windpipes crushed, buildings torn down on their heads without a word being spoken or a gesture being made towards the target. Heck, all that I cited there is pretty much Vader only. I haven't even had to bother going into Sidious or any of what went down in Episodes I-III.

The wizards are on zero here until you provide actual examples that show otherwise. All the wizards listed do practically all their magic without speaking. Here's Voldemort and Dumbledore duelling without saying a word. Also Voldemort summoned the fire spell without his wand here.

UunqBAHBDo8

Dumbledore's firestorm spell, notice the precision blasts which fried the inferi on Harry while he was underwater, while leaving Harry untouched. Then the flames parted for Dumbledore without using his wand.
xZTeHYpGq9E

Is there any proof of the Jedi having these super-fast reaction times or pre-cog? If so then how come they got owned so easily by clones in Ep 3? Mace failed to anticipate Anakin intervening before he got his hand cut off. Yoda got a suprise attack by Sidious.

Voldemort just needs to casually wave his hand to use room-clearing spells, they won't see that coming.

Lol, rape. Good post.

There have been too many SW vs. HP threads. I can just copy-paste arguments from them to show why Force stomps.

You can copy/paste away. All the Jedi supporters have is "nuh uh!!!"

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Again, you've yet to provide any examples, as in actual proof, of the wizards in the film doing anything of consequence without wand in hand or speaking, or a combination of the two. Bottom line is that Force users, even citing films only, can act at the speed of thought. Wands can be ripped from hands, windpipes crushed, buildings torn down on their heads without a word being spoken or a gesture being made towards the target. Heck, all that I cited there is pretty much Vader only. I haven't even had to bother going into Sidious or any of what went down in Episodes I-III.

The wizards are on zero here until you provide actual examples that show otherwise. I apologize, but I gather you are not familiar with RJ's method of, "debating"

Essentially, he will never provide evidence, and just say, "lolnope" to any point you bring up.


Harry Potter and Twilight threads in this forum are avoided for this reason. Their fans are idiots, for the most part.

Originally posted by Pwned

Essentially, he will never provide evidence,

He's provided tons of evidence to support the magic victory here. It's the people arguing for the force who are dodging and saying "I could copy/paste my argument from another thread because I forgot what the force did to actually net them a win here". Yes the force has many potential applications, but the jedi/sith never show these on screen.

LoL. The thread starter had to gimp the Force users of one their greatest personal abilities so the Wizards could have a chance.

Wizards probably still lose, but it isn't a stomp this time. Force enhanced speed and reflexes grants first attack still.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Is there any proof of the Jedi having these super-fast reaction times or pre-cog?

Trolling?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
As demonstrated in the prequels, Force users can move beyond the speed of visual acuity. You can't crisp what you can't see. Force step behind, lightning until dead, saber through the chest, Force wave to a pulp, and on and on.

You're not uttering anything when you're locked in the Force and have no knowledge of how to command it to save yourself. Your arguments are weak, period.

The wizards die time and time again.

don't worry about it.. these dumb ass ignorant threads are old.. 2 year old's know the jedi stomp, yet old men will keep going on and on and on about how the wizards are all that and they ain't shit.. there are about at least 30 threads regarding jedi v wizards, this one here will most likely go at least 30 pages of wizard this and that

Originally posted by Lestov16
He's provided tons of evidence to support the magic victory here. It's the people arguing for the force who are dodging and saying "I could copy/paste my argument from another thread because I forgot what the force did to actually net them a win here". Yes the force has many potential applications, but the jedi/sith never show these on screen.

perhaps you should read the already existing threads regarding this very subject

Of which I was around for each. Seeing RJ scream at brick walls about Wizard superiority scarred my brain. In every thread the Force side has been gimped..... Either removing their precog, or giving the Wizards the ability to go into Hogwarts whenever they want, for whatever they want, and for however long they want.


One involved 10 pages of RJ saying they used a luck potion that makes the user, "never fail at any task" to win. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Dumbledore and Voldemort have spells which can quickly kill a lot of people, can be casted easily, and from a safe distance. Examples posted above. If Dumbledore uses Fiendfyre they're dead. What good is Jedi reflexes if all of Times Square is completely engulfed in flame, or they're getting bombarded with jets of fire which can incinerate instantly? I don't see how this is fanboyism.

It took Dumbledore several seconds to cast that fire storm, he'd could easily be killed before he starts casting or during.

Originally posted by Pwned
Of which I was around for each. Seeing RJ scream at brick walls about Wizard superiority scarred my brain. In every thread the Force side has been gimped..... Either removing their precog, or giving the Wizards the ability to go into Hogwarts whenever they want, for whatever they want, and for however long they want.


One involved 10 pages of RJ saying they used a luck potion that makes the user, "never fail at any task" to win. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever.


i remember that shit , smdh

He was weakened and barely conscious in the scene before and probably needed a few moments to compose himself. But once he did the ring of fire inferno appeared instantly and the jets came down a few seconds after that. In this scenario he won't have any trouble casting.

The Force users will have to deal with the others anyway when the battle starts. Any "simple" spell will make them scatter and distract them.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL. The thread starter had to gimp the Force users of one their greatest personal abilities so the Wizards could have a chance.

Wizards probably still lose, but it isn't a stomp this time. Force enhanced speed and reflexes grants first attack still. The wizards were toned down as well. The funniest part is with pre cog allowed you still have Yoda being downed with an obvious slow moving lightning blast. Then you have Palpatine sit there and let Yoda gather his bearings to force push him. Precog--laughable.

The best is when Obi tells Anakin don't jump and he jumps. Precog--what a magnificent ability.

Wizards stomp the jedi/sith. Voldemort would own any foolish user of the force stupid enough to stumble into his presence.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Dumbledore and Voldemort have spells which can quickly kill a lot of people, can be casted easily, and from a safe distance. Examples posted above. If Dumbledore uses Fiendfyre they're dead. What good is Jedi reflexes if all of Times Square is completely engulfed in flame, or they're getting bombarded with jets of fire which can incinerate instantly? I don't see how this is fanboyism. It's not fanboyism, it's common sense. Any fool can see that a wizard has powers that far surpass that of the Force. The SW crowd refuses to accept that apparition is instant. They think that if a wizard is being held in place by the Force that they cannot apparate.

Foolish.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The wizards were toned down as well. The funniest part is with pre cog allowed you still have Yoda being downed with an obvious slow moving lightning blast. Then you have Palpatine sit there and let Yoda gather his bearings to force push him. Precog--laughable.

The best is when Obi tells Anakin don't jump and he jumps. Precog--what a magnificent ability.

Wizards stomp the jedi/sith. Voldemort would own any foolish user of the force stupid enough to stumble into his presence.

No, the wizards weren't, they got all their personal powers(spells) here; the Jedi didn't. Learn to comprehend, man.

Low showings do not > high showings. Jedi's precog is shown, though it can be overwhelmed by superior numbers. You're just too stupid to get this when watching the films (have you actually watched the films?).

Nope, they don't. The fact that the Jedi have to always be gimped in some fashion should let you know that.

This thread was ****ed from the get-go. A Jedi with no precog is just another peak human.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, the wizards weren't, they got all their personal powers(spells) here; the Jedi didn't. Learn to comprehend, man.

Low showings do not > high showings. Jedi's precog is shown, though it can be overwhelmed by superior numbers. You're just too stupid is get this when watching the films (have you actually watched the films?).

Nope, they don't. The fact that the Jedi have to always be gimped in some fashion should let you know that. This is pure wand-to-force combat.

You can't ignore showings simply due to being a fanboy. Yoda and Palpatine are the creme de la creme and both were embarrassed. One via one isn't superior numbers ? Shouldn't precog have given the jedi the drop. It's laughable. They all died. Weak.

If order 66 was given against Voldemort andn the deatheaters they would have destroyed the weak clone army and put Palpatine's head on a stick.

I gave a few examples of precog not only failing but in embarrassing fashion.

"pure wand-to-force combat", does this mean no lightsabers?

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
"pure wand-to-force combat", does this mean no lightsabers? If they took away lightsabers robtard would probably report the thread. His precious jedi are being gimped, DAMMIT!!!!!!!

Originally posted by quanchi112
If they took away lightsabers robtard would probably report the thread. His precious jedi are being gimped, DAMMIT!!!!!!! Well, in this thread, they are incredibly gimped. The OP took away their Precog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is pure wand-to-force combat.

You can't ignore showings simply due to being a fanboy. Yoda and Palpatine are the creme de la creme and both were embarrassed. One via one isn't superior numbers ? Shouldn't precog have given the jedi the drop. It's laughable. They all died. Weak.

If order 66 was given against Voldemort andn the deatheaters they would have destroyed the weak clone army and put Palpatine's head on a stick.

I gave a few examples of precog not only failing but in embarrassing fashion.

And "Force Precog" would be a Force power, moron.

Again, you're too stupid to realize that when two Force users are at each other, their precog is constantly at play against each other.

/more-hp-wanking

And low showings do not > high showings. Simple as that, really. You want to counter precog, get another Force use, use superior numbers or surprise them with someone they trust. Watch the scene when Ki-Adi-Mundi dies. I'm tired of explaining everything to you.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Well, in this thread, they are incredibly gimped. The OP took away their Precog. I will argue against the precog. It's vague and unreliable.Originally posted by Robtard
And "Force Precog" would be a Force power, moron.

Again, you're too stupid to realize that when two Force users are at each other, their precog is constantly at play against each other.

/more-hp-wanking

And low showings do not > high showings. Simple as that, really. You want to counter precog, get another Force use, use superior numbers or surprise them with someone they trust. AWtch the scene when Ki-Adi-Mundi dies. I'm tired of explaining everything to you. I get it. Palpatine slowly raising his hand at Yoda just caught him off guard.

Precog is a fanboyish excuse to ignore what we see. I see them tagged left and right.

What about Windu letting Palpatine alive long enough for Anakin to lop off his arm ? Precog rocks!!!

I grow weary of your excuses.

Force Precog is not "vague", Qui-Gon Jinn clearly explains it in EP1 and Obi Wan in refers to in in Ep4, you stupid chimp. Then there's all the times the Jedi successfully block blaster fire.

I'm done holding your hand and walking you through the basics. You're simply too dumb.

Originally posted by Robtard
Force Precog is not "vague", Qui-Gon Jinn clearly explains it in EP1 and Obi Wan in refers to in in Ep4, you stupid chimp.

I'm done holding your hand and walking you through the basics. You're simply too dumb. Yes, it is vague. If precog is awesome and ever present then it's unreliable at best if Yoda can't figure out what Palpatine is up to when he raises his arms to zap him.

Weaksauce. The wizards simply drum them with or without precog.

You're just too stupid, Quan. Oh well.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're just too stupid, Quan. Oh well. Says the guy whose arguments consist of nuh uh. I give valid examples of the greatest force users of the force and the dark side. You ignore it because you're a fanboy. Live in shame.

Rampant "Harry Potter pwns all!" poster accusing someone else of being a fanboy, the humor.

Originally posted by Robtard
Rampant "Harry Potter pwns all!" poster accusing someone else of being a fanboy, the humor. I gave examples supporting my case. You don't. You think the word gimp is an argument. It's just you being emotional. We get it. It's your time of the month.

Nope, more lies, you just downplayed the Force users, as you downplay any opposition to your precious Harry Potter wizards and then make wank "wizards pwn all" type of rants. This is your MO; it is well known in here.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nope, more lies, you just downplayed the Force users, as you downplay any opposition to your precious Harry Potter wizards and then make wank "wizards pwn all" type of rants. This is your MO; it is well known in here. You act as if low showings don't count and only want to look at high showings. That's a sign of a biased individual. Don't look at the f's just the a's. But hey I am totally objective.

The wizards are flat out more powerful and skilled at long ranged combat. Fiendfyre is too powerful for any jedi to defeat.

In here and for the purposes of fictional fights, high showings > low showings. Which of course you go with, but only with the side you want to see win. You have zero objectivity in your frail soft body.

You hide behind the Jedi/Sith being "toned down" (aka gimped) while the wizards are at full power cos it's your only defense, what a total coward you are. Be a man.

Originally posted by Robtard
In here and for the purposes of fictional fights, high showings > low showings. Which of course you go with, but only with the side you want to see win. You have zero objectivity in your frail soft body.

You hide behind the Jedi/Sith being toned down while the wizards are at full power, what a total coward you are. I use all showings. You want to play up the higher showings making it painfully clear you're a fanboy.

I say bring on precog. It is unreliable at best even when the attacks are painfully obvious to all save yoda.

Quit being a fanboy. That's your new year's resolution.

LoL, no. You use low showings for the side you want to see lose and high showings for the side you want to see win.

It's not your thread to dictate. Besides, it was explained to you and you cried.

Again, the new "wizards pwn all!" ranter accusing someone else of being a fanboy, the humor. You're not even original, dude.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, no. You use low showings for the side you want to see lose and high showings for the side you want to see win.

It's not your thread to dictate. Besides, it was explained to you and you cried.

Again, the new "wizards pwn all!" ranter accusing someone else of being a fanboy, the humor. You're not even original, dude. Wizards can use fiendfyre, simply move their wands and slash into their skin, etc. It isn't hard nor does it require close proximity to defeat the jedi.

I use all showings. We can go through fight by fight and I can point out precog failing time and time again. Not just at small moments but at pivotal moments.

A fanboy says precog like it's supposed to mean something. Laughable.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, no. You use low showings for the side you want to see lose and high showings for the side you want to see win.

It's not your thread to dictate. Besides, it was explained to you and you cried.

Again, the new "wizards pwn all!" ranter accusing someone else of being a fanboy, the humor. You're not even original, dude. You do this every time your argument is beaten into submission.

Everyone note this.

Noted.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
You do this every time your argument is beaten into submission.

Everyone note this. It's his go to fifth go to post after all of his points have been decimated.

You could give the Jedi/Sith precog and they'll still lose. I don't see how it will help. If you left Voldemort and Dumbledore out it would be more fair (though still a challenge). They're both far above the average wizard in range of abilities, and scale.

Dumbledore lit a wardrobe on fire then restored it with a thought. Didn't look at it or use his wand or anything. Voldemort and Bellatrix can freaking fly and zip all over the place while still casting spells.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
You could give the Jedi/Sith precog and they'll still lose. I don't see how it will help. If you left Voldemort and Dumbledore out it would be more fair (though still a challenge). They're both far above the average wizard in range of abilities, and scale.

Dumbledore lit a wardrobe on fire then restored it with a thought. Didn't look at it or use his wand or anything. Voldemort and Bellatrix can freaking fly and zip all over the place while still casting spells. Yeppers. But hey, force choke pwns this GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

Robtard has conceded to me privately via pm.

Is it really so hard to understand that when two users are both in tune with the Force precog is for all intents and purposes nearly negated, where as when fighting those who are unable to touch its power or only do so negligibly it is a vast advantage

Hence, two Force users are akin to standard fighters in that they have little time to react to one another even when giving themselves over to the Force. However, in situations such as facing blaster fire, etc, they can react beyond the speed of visual or aural acuity.

As to the Jedi killed by Order 66, many reacted but most were literally surrounded and fired on from all sides. Only the most powerful users were able to sense the others being cut down and react in time. Sidious was only the most powerful Sith ever, so perhaps that explains some of why he was able to cloud there judgement.

Regardless, every "instantaneous" attack mentioned in this thread in reality either required time, speech, mannerisms, or some combination there of to pull off for the wizards. I'm sorry, but very few in the HP series were killed in singular attacks, so I don't forsee it going down that way here either. However, once you've been mind-raped or had your body crushed from the inside out it's game over.

Force for the win.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
You do this every time your argument is beaten into submission.

Everyone note this.

Now your butthurt has you stalking me in this thread too. Damn, bro.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Robtard has conceded to me privately via pm.

I'm flattered that you had to call in backup in this thread and your wizard thread. Tells me how far into the mud I've pushed you.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
You could give the Jedi/Sith precog and they'll still lose. I don't see how it will help. If you left Voldemort and Dumbledore out it would be more fair (though still a challenge). They're both far above the average wizard in range of abilities, and scale.

Dumbledore lit a wardrobe on fire then restored it with a thought. Didn't look at it or use his wand or anything. Voldemort and Bellatrix can freaking fly and zip all over the place while still casting spells.

Nope. Jedi had to be "toned down" so they could lose here. It's telling.

That was an illusion. Unless you think a massive fire creates no heat?

It was magical fire, Rob. You really know nothing of Harry Potter.

Glad you changed your sig. You had no business with anything Star Wars related going on there =p

I've been SW fanboying since 1977, Champ.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
It was magical fire, Rob. You really know nothing of Harry Potter.

Derp?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Is it really so hard to understand that when two users are both in tune with the Force precog is for all intents and purposes nearly negated, where as when fighting those who are unable to touch its power or only do so negligibly it is a vast advantage

Hence, two Force users are akin to standard fighters in that they have little time to react to one another even when giving themselves over to the Force. However, in situations such as facing blaster fire, etc, they can react beyond the speed of visual or aural acuity.

As to the Jedi killed by Order 66, many reacted but most were literally surrounded and fired on from all sides. Only the most powerful users were able to sense the others being cut down and react in time. Sidious was only the most powerful Sith ever, so perhaps that explains some of why he was able to cloud there judgement.
Boba Fett is a non Force user yet he still killed Jedi with simple pistol shots. He went toe to toe Obi-wan and made Mace flee using a flame thrower.

Ignore the music, but Obi-wan is getting hit here with a bunch of slow-moving, predictable attacks. Rockets, the ships turrets, grapple gun, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIOq5WMd5Uo

Here it's just Boba vs. a Jedi one on one, the Jedi wasn't surrounded and had plenty of time to counter-attack (Boba missed the first few shots), but he still got killed. And for what it's worth, next scene Mace gets bowled over by the beast, while Boba got out of the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzdMyqZsJ2k

Now if they can't move react quickly enough to those attacks, how do you expect them to stop Voldemort from simply flicking his wrist and sending a killing strike at them?



Here is a part of the Voldemort vs. Harry duel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4w6E-hh_gvg#t=71s

Based on this, let's say it takes a fraction of a second, next to no mannerisms, and no speech for Voldemort to cast lethal spells. At 1:35 he also disapparated and reappeared behind Harry, battle-ready, in about a second. Have any Jedi shown the ability to react to that? They can't block spells and will have to stop him from even casting them, which they can't do either.

And this is only Voldemort, using "regular" spells. Snape, Bellatrix, and Dumbledore would be doing the same thing. They could all use Petrificus Totalus and suddenly Team Force can't move at all.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Have any Jedi shown the ability to react to that?

I believe the SW argument is that Jedi/Sith have the reflexes to effortlessly dodge and reflect blaster fire from droids and stormtroopers, and with that speed, and their telekinetic ability to affect beings on a personal level (Force-choke), the J/S would essentially quickdraw the wizards and take control of them before the wizards can launch the offensive. Am I correct here?

The Jedi don't have any precog in this? Then they lose.

Underselling much?

Obi blocked 7-8 blast and then rolled away from several others, was blindsided by a rocket when he was focusing on the Slave 1 which was bringing it's guns to bear. Then was blasted when he was getting up from the missile blast. Of the H2H fight, Jango got one headbutt in after they locked in on each other, other than that, Obi was kicking his ass starting with his silly Jedi-Fu flying kick. Then he gets grappled while going for his weapon. Ends up dodging another blast while Jedi-Fu flying kicking again. All in all, it was Jango trying to get away, with the help of Bobo in the Slave one.

Coleman Trebo blocked a few shots before Jango got one in.

Mace and Jango, that ended with Mace blocking 5-6 shots and beheading Jango.

That happened to the background of 100+ to 1 odds against the Jedi , with them blocking what was likely thousands of shots in total. But yes, Force Precog is shit.

They don't have it in this thread though...

Originally posted by ares834
They don't have it in this thread though...

Wasn't arguing that they do. Was replying to the underselling of the Jedi.

If they did, how good were their chances be? I don't want to make a curbstomp thread.

They'd win, ie there would be at least one Jedi or Sith at the end.

So it's only due to their lightning fast reflexes, rather than superior power, that they win?

Originally posted by Lestov16
So it's only due to their lightning fast reflexes, rather than superior power, that they win?

Force Precog isn't their Force enhanced reflexes. Precog allows them to maximize their reflexes. It allows them to be proactive instead of reactive. "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait." - Qui-On Jinn

Any Jedi/Sith (esp Sith) here can kill or cripple any wizard here with one hit and any wizard here can kill or cripple any Jedi/Sith here with one hit. Speed and first attack matters here.

Originally posted by Robtard
Speed and first attack matters here. You sure you wanna go with this?

There's also the fact that many Wizard spells require a flourish of the wrist at the least, and many times a shout. And most spells are highly visible and easily avoidable for a jedi.

Lol, once again, for the umpteenth time, not all spells require that. Snape for example, can spell faster than and Jedi can force attack.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Lol, once again, for the umpteenth time, not all spells require that. Snape for example, can spell faster than and Jedi can force attack.

Read my post, I said many, not all.

And he can attack faster than a quick gesture(Force TK or Lightning?)

And any visible spell is slow enough to be dodged by a Jedi.

Originally posted by KingD19
Read my post, I said many, not all.

And he can attack faster than a quick gesture(Force TK or Lightning?)

And any visible spell is slow enough to be dodged by a Jedi.

Yes, faster than force lightning and/or force TK. Need a vid?

Originally posted by KingD19
Read my post, I said many, not all.

And he can attack faster than a quick gesture(Force TK or Lightning?)

And any visible spell is slow enough to be dodged by a Jedi. That might be true for Hogwarts students but not for the veteran wizards listed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GK7JnKelJA
Harry needs to utter the incantations, Snape doesn't. Neither use fancy gestures. Even with his back turned, he blocks the spell and Harry's on his ass in a second.

This is a moot point anyway, waving your arm to cast a spell is the same as using them to perform Choke or Lightning. They don't instantly kill, with choke you have to hold them in place and choke them out. A wizard could interrupt that by casting a spell back.

LoL, the thought that telekinesis that can be used to exert tons and tons of force now suddenly can't be used (by Sith) to instantly break a neck or crush a throat, should they choose that.

Anyhow, Luke choked out to unconsciousness two Gamorrean's simultaneously in a few seconds, he wasn't even a fully trained Jedi.

Yeah, Yoda and Darth Sidious were slinging around multi-ton senate pods and Yoda/Dooku were battling with that huge power coupling.

Yoda also pulled the X-Wing out of the swamp. The Force Choke has to be done in a certain way to choke someone into unconsciousness, but a Force User could easily break a neck in an instant.

There's a difference between holding something up and grabbing/crushing something.

So they can use the Force to hold up tons and tons of weight, but can't apply that in a crushing grip? Even though they've been shown to do just that?

That's why there's a Force Technique specifically called Force Crush.

Originally posted by KingD19
So they can use the Force to hold up tons and tons of weight, but can't apply that in a crushing grip? Even though they've been shown to do just that?

That's why there's a Force Technique specifically called Force Crush. Oh so you can guarantee they can do that? That they can apply the same exact force behind a force choke as they can a force push? I mean you have proof of this, yes?

Moot point, wizards can apparate. Instantly and stuff.

Yes. It's why Grievous has that asthmatic cough. Because Mace Windu applied tons of TK force(needed because of how durable his chassis is) to crush his chest plate and his organs inside.

There are other examples that while not happening in the movie, are acknowledged to have happened and are canon even in the movie-verse.

OK let's compare the amount of TK required to lift an X Wing to the amount of TK required to crush a windpipe.

My math sucks, so whatever figures you come up with I'll trust lol.

Something like 25lbs of pressure PSI can snap a neck.

An X-Wing weighs 30,000lbs.

I lost interest.

I guess Casper's becoming the new RJ.

You need to calm down.

Have I done anything to show I'm not completely calm?

He's trolling.

Good natured trolling. Fact remains that the wizards rape the holy hell out of the Jedi. Apparition>>>>>>Jedi speed.

Fact.

Each Jedi can choke out two wizards at the same time and Palpatine can snap necks like a mofo, cos Palpatine don't care about no silly rules of the Force. It being even numbers, the wizards be ****ed.

Condolences, wizards lost again.

Again, apparition is instant. You know, like before a force choke can be applied. Do I need to post a vid of Snape displaying faster reflexes than any force user?

another thread where the wizards lose to the Jedi, they're will be another wizard/jedi thread soon i'm sure .

ZOMG INORITE?

Lol. So you're saying Team Force will kill every wizard in less time it takes for just one wizard to cast Fiendfyre (a few secpmds). If not the arena will immediately erupt in fiery inferno and Team Force loses. I haven't heard anyone explain how Team Force will prevent someone from casting it.

Let's assume both sides react in the same amount of time (if you think TF is faster, post clips), and this is how the first 5 seconds of battle would go down: Team Force opens with choke, lightning, Force push, a neck-snap, etc. As Team Force is doing this, the wizards cast some spells back, and one wizard casts Fiendfyre just in case.

So, Palpatine has snapped one neck, other wizards get choked a split-second after the spells have left their wands, etc. but one has still casted Fiendfyre, to which there is no counter or defense. This is ignoring the fact that wizards can put off several spells a second and interrupt a choking action. But okay Palpatine snaps a neck, he has to snap five before one sends a death spell at him. Unlikely.

The pro-SW camp keeps touting these Force powers like it's part of their standard arsenal but they aren't demonstrated on screen, it's extrapolation. E.g. Sideous and Yoda threw some large objects, so they can snap a bunch of necks in less than a second, right. I haven't extrapolated anything. If the wizards decide to fly and become incorporeal, there won't be any necks snapped at all.

See this fight for what I mean (0:50 and 2:45)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8x_ml8-bo0

Originally posted by Robtard
Something like 25lbs of pressure PSI can snap a neck.

An X-Wing weighs 30,000lbs. If they aren't showing doing so it's a fanboy tactic. Dear rob, you're a fanboy.

Originally posted by Robtard
Now your butthurt has you stalking me in this thread too. Damn, bro.



I'm flattered that you had to call in backup in this thread and your wizard thread. Tells me how far into the mud I've pushed you. I don't call anyone to back me up people can just see the righteousness of my words. I am right you are wrong.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Lol. So you're saying Team Force will kill every wizard in less time it takes for just one wizard to cast Fiendfyre (a few secpmds). If not the arena will immediately erupt in fiery inferno and Team Force loses. I haven't heard anyone explain how Team Force will prevent someone from casting it.

Why do you think they have not countered this? Because there is no counter for it.

Originally posted by KingD19
I guess Casper's becoming the new RJ.
http://msbiancafernandez.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/you-dont-say.jpg

Hmm...I guess this RJ guy was a serial rapist?

Hell yeah the dude was a serial rapist. He made Hat McCullough look like Mother Teresa. Proof of RJ's pedophiliac tendencies came when he argued that Hit Girl actually stood a chance against Blade

Calm down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If they aren't showing doing so it's a fanboy tactic. Dear rob, you're a fanboy.

Derp.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't call anyone to back me up people can just see the righteousness of my words. I am right you are wrong.

Stop lying. Derp.

Originally posted by Robtard
Derp. You can't make them fight how you want them too. Originally posted by Robtard
Stop lying. Derp. Prove I pmed him to come to my aid.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't make them fight how you want them too.

Prove I pmed him to come to my aid.

You don't get to disallow shown powers cos they crush your argument. Sorry.

Listen, I'm flattered that you felt the need to call in support to debate me.

Originally posted by Robtard
You don't get to disallow shown powers cos they crush your argument. Sorry.

Listen, I'm flattered that you felt the need to call in support to debate me. They don't break people's necks with their force powers. If it were that easy they'd have done so to an opponent.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They don't break people's necks with their force powers. If it were that easy they'd have done so to an opponent.


I said the Jedi choke, Palpatine can break necks, cos he's evil. Pay attention.

LoL, are you now trying to say it's easier to fling around ton-weight senate pods than to break a neck? Your bias knows no bounds. Sorry, your favorites can't always win.

Jedi have no counter for Fiendfyre.

You can ignore this. You can deny this. You can argue this all day, all night, but in the end, the fact remains that the Jedi have no counter for Fiendfyre.

Go ahead, go on with "ZOMG CRUSHED NECKS AND STUFF" argument.

Attacking first is a pretty good counter.

You can ignore this. You can deny this. You can argue this all day, all night, but in the end, the fact remains that the wizards aren't faster.

Go ahead, go on with "ZOMG FIENDFYRE AND STUFF" argument.

Yeah, thought as much. Concession accepted.

Wizards rape.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Yeah, thought as much. Concession accepted.

Wizards rape.

A dodge, thought as much.

Only each other.

U mad now.

Originally posted by Robtard
I said the Jedi choke, Palpatine can break necks, cos he's evil. Pay attention.

LoL, are you now trying to say it's easier to fling around ton-weight senate pods than to break a neck? Your bias knows no bounds. Sorry, your favorites can't always win. When has Palpatine broken necks on screen ? Oh that's right--never ya fanboy.

You can't jump into the character and start making up tactics due to personal bias. I won't allow it.

Voldemort only takes a second to cast fiendfyre, and doesn't need a wand or spell to do it. And teleportation beats telekinesis. So Jedi/Sith have no defense against the teleporting wizards who need only a second to cast spells (and some they don't even need words or wands to cast). Wizards rape here.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Voldemort only takes a second to cast fiendfyre, and doesn't need a wand or spell to do it. And teleportation beats telekinesis. So Jedi/Sith have no defense against the teleporting wizards who need only a second to cast spells (and some they don't even need words or wands to cast). Wizards rape here. They know. They just refuse to accept it.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Voldemort only takes a second to cast fiendfyre, and doesn't need a wand or spell to do it. And teleportation beats telekinesis. So Jedi/Sith have no defense against the teleporting wizards who need only a second to cast spells (and some they don't even need words or wands to cast). Wizards rape here. The jedi backers know this to be true. But some will make up tactics and pretend they are Palpatine just because they are biased.

Now that I ponder it, the Wizards really do rape here. Voldemort only needs a second to apparate in behind them (if those clone trooper could do it in Order 66, Voldemort can easy), Fiendfyre everybody (which, as shown with his battle with Dumbledore, he needs neither a wand nor spell to do), and apparate back out before they can react. He doesn't even need to be in their vicinity or eyesight to do it, which helped by the fact that he can phucking fly. The Force-users will not be tagging him.

looking forward to this going another 10-30 pages.. smdh

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has Palpatine broken necks on screen ? Oh that's right--never ya fanboy.

You can't jump into the character and start making up tactics due to personal bias. I won't allow it.

He's manipulated greater with the Force. You're doing the silly 'exacts' thing again.

You can't dictate that the characters you hate act stupid and not to their full potential. It's not allowed.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Now that I ponder it, the Wizards really do rape here. Voldemort only needs a second to apparate in behind them (if those clone trooper could do it in Order 66, Voldemort can easy), Fiendfyre everybody (which, as shown with his battle with Dumbledore, he needs neither a wand nor spell to do), and apparate back out before they can react. He doesn't even need to be in their vicinity or eyesight to do it, which helped by the fact that he can phucking fly. The Force-users will not be tagging him.

LoL. You do realize that when Order 66 was given, the Jedi trusted the clones? It's not like they were in a duel to the death against a known foe, like they are here.

Wizard teleports, Force Precog (unless it's gone again cos it pwns the wizards hard)allows the Force user to know when/where the wizard will appear a moment before and they'll be ready to choke out, slam or sabre them apart should they appear in melee range.

Stop wanking Harry Potter.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL. You do realize that when Order 66 was given, the Jedi trusted the clones? It's not like they were in a duel to the death against a known foe, like they are here.

Grevious phucked Obi-Wan's shit up and would have killed him if the blaster wasn't in Obi-Wan's sight of vision. Obi Wan was in a straight duel to the death and his Force Precog didn't help him then. Voldemort, Dumbledore, and the others are phucking teleporters. If Grevious can catch Jedi off guard, the Wizards can also do so easily

Originally posted by Robtard
Wizard teleports, Force Precog (unless it's gone again cos it pwns the wizards hard)allows the Force user to know when/where the wizard will appear a moment before and they'll be ready to choke out, slam or sabre them apart should they appear in melee range.

Which is exactly why Obi Wan's force-precog had him effortlessly killing Grev.....oh...wait no. Sorry Force-Precog isn't the omniscient Cris Johnson precog you desperately want it to be.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stop wanking Harry Potter.

Stop wanking Star Wars.

Originally posted by Robtard
He's manipulated greater with the Force. You're doing the silly 'exacts' thing again.

You can't dictate that the characters you hate act stupid and not to their full potential. It's not allowed. We argue by what they do on screen, fanboy.

You mean the cyborg with 4 spinning lightsabres who was trained by Count Dooku to fight and kill Jedi? Obi-Wan did well against him, if you don't recall it was GG who was trying to escape.

Who said "Force Precog is omniscient"? Though I think you meant omnipotent? It isn't either, no one has said as much.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yuo mean the cyborg with 4 spinning lightsabres who was trained by Count Dooku to fight and kill Jedi? Obi-Wan did well against him, if you don't recall it was GG who was trying to escape.

Who said "Force Precog is omniscient"? Though I think you meant omnipotent? It isn't either, no one has said as much. You're acting like precog is an autowin.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We argue by what they do on screen, fanboy.

LoL. then you better apply that same exact logic to the wizards, but you won't, cos you're biased and hate Star Wars. Try to be objective for once.

Force choking multiple opponents is on screen though, so deal with it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You're acting like precog is an autowin.

You're acting like being a wizard is an autowin.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL. then you better apply that same exact logic to the wizards, but you won't, cos you're biased and hate Star Wars. Try to be objective for once.

Force choking multiple opponents is on screen though, so deal with it. What have I ever said that hasn't been seen on screen ? That is something they can do if we see it but not snapping necks, fanboy.

Wizards stomp.

Everything. If we're following "as seen only", then the wizards for the most part duel face-to-face.

Nope, they lose harder now, with your silly biased Quanchi clown rules.

Originally posted by Robtard
I said the Jedi choke, Palpatine can break necks, cos he's evil. Pay attention.

LoL, are you now trying to say it's easier to fling around ton-weight senate pods than to break a neck? Your bias knows no bounds. Sorry, your favorites can't always win. I went over this before. Force choke will hurt but it won't stop a wizard from casting spells.

Where have they demonstrated this ability? All the Jedi listed have been blindsided/hit by sneak attacks. Let alone countering with lethal force to said attack, instantanously. I'm not wanking Voldemort when I say he will teleport behind a Jedi and cast a killing, area effect spell in the span of two seconds. Post proof of Jedi countering such a manoeuvre.

Forget fiendfyre for a moment. Snape, Dumbledore, Bellatrix, and Voldemort all have the reflexes to cast deadly spells in a quickdraw scenario. Team Force have not shown they can kill them all before they do.

It's mind-boggling to me how pro Force side can look at the many feats I've posted, then look at the Team Force struggling with clones and bounty hunters, and then conclude that Team Force will dominate the fight. The wizards have more raw power. Comparable or better reaction times. A diverse array of tactics that Team Force cannot counter. They could use the Cruciatus curse and hit TF with unbearable pain. They could control their bodies like marionettes (and snap their necks!). All in the span of time it takes to wave wrist and cast a spell.

Originally posted by Robtard
Everything. If we're following "as seen only", then the wizards for the most part duel face-to-face.

Nope, they lose harder now, with your silly biased Quanchi clown rules. Think about it like this: You walk up to a teleporter and grab them in a bear hug and tell them "you're going nowhere." You really think the teleporter will not be able to teleport?

Originally posted by Robtard
Everything. If we're following "as seen only", then the wizards for the most part duel face-to-face.

Nope, they lose harder now, with your silly biased Quanchi clown rules. Everything I have claimed has happened on screen. I don't make up tactics like you do. Wizards destroy them due to long ranged game.


Watch the harry Potter deathly hallows 2 fight scene you dwarf. Dear lord you need help.

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Think about it like this: You walk up to a teleporter and grab them in a bear hug and tell them "you're going nowhere." You really think the teleporter will not be able to teleport?

LoL. A "bear hug" isn't like being choked to unconsciousness in a matter of seconds. See: EP6 RoTJ

Originally posted by quanchi112
Everything I have claimed has happened on screen. I don't make up tactics like you do. Wizards destroy them due to long ranged game.


Watch the harry Potter deathly hallows 2 fight scene you dwarf. Dear lord you need help.

Nope. You're dictating that the Force users have to follow some silly "exactly as seen" while given the wizards carte blanche to do anything.

You do this cos you're a biased clown. But that dog won't hunt, sorry, pal.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nope. You're dictating that the Force users have to follow some silly "exactly as seen" while given the wizards carte blanche to do anything.

You do this cos you're a biased clown. But that dog won't hunt, sorry, pal. No, I am only arguing based on things the wizard did on screen. I am not saying Voldemort moves his wand and cuts their penises off even though that's well within his abilities. I don't say it because I am objective unlike yourself, dwarf.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am only arguing based on things the wizard did on screen. I am not saying Voldemort moves his wand and cuts their penises off even though that's well within his abilities. I don't say it because I am objective unlike yourself, dwarf.


:This is still true and continues to crush you:

Nope. You're dictating that the Force users have to follow some silly "exactly as seen" while given the wizards carte blanche to do anything.

You do this cos you're a biased clown. But that dog won't hunt, sorry, pal.

:cry more: