Starkiller Runs a Gauntlet

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jmoul
In the Cato Nemoidian arena. Starkiller has two lightsabers, is completely in the zone and gets an hour's rest between rounds, with one warm up round:

Johun Othone
DoE Darth Bane
RotS Anakin
RotJ Darth Sidious
RotJ Luke
DoE Darth Zannah
AotC Yoda
Count Dooku
Grand Master Luke

How far does Starkiller get and how long does he last in his last round?

Pwned
Why are Dooku and RoTJ Luke past DoE Bane? Give them half a chance? stick out tongue


Anyways, I would say he nearly dies at Bane. However, he makes it fairly far. The hour of rest is a long time for somebody in his tier. Grand Master Luke wtfpwns him. Zannah could probably win with sorcery. Dooku will be overwhelmed. Yoda may be able to take him. Sidious has already beaten him, and is more powerful in the Force at this point. Anakin is.... meh at that time. Is he Zonakin? Or just regular Anakin? Zonakin could probably beat Starkiller. Bane gives him a major fight.... In fact, it may come to 5/10 wins for Starkiller.

jmoul
RotJ Luke and Dooku are after Bane to give him a few small breaks from fighting insanely difficult opponents and this is regular Anakin, not Zonakin.

Also Sidious didn't really defeat him, he took advantage of Starkiller staying his blade to remain a Jedi (even after Starkiller straight up wrecked him) by electrocuting Kota. Starkiller chose to sacrifice himself to allow the Rebel Leaders to escape and then serve as an inspiration for them to resist the Empire. So did the Emperor really defeat him or did Starkiller willingly take Kota's place in death?

NemeBro
The totality of Starkiller's power released at once did not so much as inconvenience Sidious.

Sidious beat him.

axel_jovan
Starkiller pwns Johun Othone and RotJ Luke.

He wins a majority against DoE Darth Bane, DoE Darth Zannah, RotS Anakin (if not in teh ZonE) and Dooku.

He possibly loses to ZonE Anakin.

He loses to Yoda, Sidious and Luke.

Arhael
Grand Master Luke wtfpwns him.
Nah. Luke wins but it would be a good fight. Some random Sith could put up good fight with Luke and Baran Do Master put up a good Force contest with Luke, why Marek can't?


That depends on which source we follow. In game Marek fights Sidious and the fight finishes with Marek blocking and dodging lightning and handling Sidious with TK.

Also, in book Marek was tanking lightning without lightsaber or Yoda's absorb ability, which makes it very unfair and one-sided contest. Luke can't absorb lightning as well, random Sith was electrocuting him in FotJ, until Ben intercepted lightning. Yet, Luke would stomp that Sith any day.


Imho in book Marek demonstrated himself more skilled and cunning at offensive Force use than even Dooku, not to mention that he is more powerful. Imho that should grant him victory against any Anakin in all out.

jmoul
I meant for him to own Othone because it is his warm-up round.

Dolos
Originally posted by jmoul
RotJ Luke and Dooku are after Bane to give him a few small breaks from fighting insanely difficult opponents and this is regular Anakin, not Zonakin.

Also Sidious didn't really defeat him, he took advantage of Starkiller staying his blade to remain a Jedi (even after Starkiller straight up wrecked him) by electrocuting Kota. Starkiller chose to sacrifice himself to allow the Rebel Leaders to escape and then serve as an inspiration for them to resist the Empire. So did the Emperor really defeat him or did Starkiller willingly take Kota's place in death?

Galen blew himself up because Sidious was simply stronger in the DAK CIDE!

Dolos
Originally posted by Arhael
Also, in book Marek was tanking lightning without lightsaber or Yoda's absorb ability, which makes it very unfair and one-sided contest. Luke can't absorb lightning as well, random Sith was electrocuting him in FotJ, until Ben intercepted lightning. Yet, Luke would stomp that Sith any day.



Oh nooooo, you will find that it is you who are mistaken.

In the book Galen Marek never deflected lightning nor did he use Yoda's Force deflection. He used Tutaminis to absorb the lightning, and then he channeled it through his body and unleashed it back upon it's wielder.

Luke on the other hand, innately deflected "The Evil Emperor's" Force lightning in the ROTJ novelization...but was swiftly overwhelmed by the continually perpetuating intensity of Sidous' lightning.

We use the books for these debates.

Yooung fool, only now, at de END! Do you understand...

Rookwood
Originally posted by jmoul
In the Cato Nemoidian arena. Starkiller has two lightsabers, is completely in the zone and gets an hour's rest between rounds, with one warm up round:

Johun Othone
DoE Darth Bane
RotS Anakin
RotJ Darth Sidious
RotJ Luke
DoE Darth Zannah
AotC Yoda
Count Dooku
Grand Master Luke

How far does Starkiller get and how long does he last in his last round?

He dies at DoE Darth Bane.


Originally posted by jmoul

and how long does he last in his last round?

Since Starkiller is already warmed up, and extremely powerful, he probably puts up a decent fight.

However, Peak DoE Bane is pretty much Sidious's equal in combat-abilities - so Starkiller dies after putting up perhaps a decent fight.

Dolos
Originally posted by Rookwood
He dies at DoE Darth Bane.




Since Starkiller is already warmed up, and extremely powerful, he probably puts up a decent fight.

However, Peak DoE Bane is pretty much Sidious's equal in combat-abilities - so Starkiller dies after putting up perhaps a decent fight.

As far as straight up lightsaber combat goes Bane is better than Sidious, and a little better than Cyborg Vader with Force power, but far better at using them to supplement him in lightsaber combat.

Sidious is more of a magi, but Bane has a few sorceror tricks as of Dynasty of Evil. Against someone like Bane, Galen wouldn't last long. He did well against Sidious at that point in time, namely because of the circumstances, but most everyone else on that list save Othone could beat Galen Marek per novelization - Anakin is questionable, but I think he could win.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Arhael
Nah. Luke wins but it would be a good fight. Some random Sith could put up good fight with Luke and Baran Do Master put up a good Force contest with Luke, why Marek can't?

From the sounds of it, you're examining these things holistically, through the lens of a potentially scripted battle. There's merit to that worldview. Honestly, the majority of fights we consider "lol stomp" would probably not be if it occurred in an actual EU novel. Therein, battles are subject to nebulous elements like circumstance, motivation, terrain, and a host of character idiosyncrasies.

Typically, though, we compare these things feat-to-feat and quote-to-quote and assume characters are playing "at their best."

I definitely think there's room for discussion there, but it would make a difficult process even more convoluted.

Pwned
If they did it in a novel, it would be subject to the author. Karpshyn would have them fight a massive duel with one side just toying with the other. Zahn would have them fight a gritty, realistic like fight, lasting maybe 3 minutes. Traviss would have had them fight for 2 seconds before Boba Fett swoops in and kills them both. Maybe 2 seconds, could be stretching it.

jmoul
People forget that it isn't just Starkiller's immense ability in the force that make him dangerous, it's his talent for getting insanely creative with his powers to catch his opponent completely off-guard, so Bane I think would lose, but only after a close battle. I think that with his immense ability and creativity, Grand Master Luke is where he would make it to at least.

Pwned
Well given that he already lost to Sidious..... Quite handily, in fact.


Bane would sense him gathering power, and just beat the crap out of him. It's a tried and true tactic.

jmoul
His loss to Sidious depends on which source you look at. In the game it was self-sacrifice, in the book it was an utter stomp.

Also, all of the strong opponents would be able to sense Starkiller building up power and try to respond, but don't forget that he has an hour to rest and prepare in advance before each fight, so if he had any brain at all he would gather his strength while he rested, therefore, pwned, your argue kent about Bane killing Starkiller before he gathers his power is, in nice terms, invalid.

Ascendancy
Bane's level of swordsmanship by DoE is enough to overcome whatever Starkiller brings his way. As stated, his main chance would be in gathering an immense amount of power.

Just for the heck of it I'll say he takes Bane though. What is the point of anyone that he's facing before Zannah? We already know how he would fair against Sidious, and neither RotJ Luke nor Anakin are a match for him.

Anyway, assuming he kills Bane, he falls to Zannah's sorcery as he's faced nothing like it before and no means of defense.

jmoul
If you are referring to Zannah's tendrils of dark side energy, remember that she has to concentrate constantly and the amount of energy she needs is immense. Then her mind demons trick works only on those whose will isn't strong enough to see through the illusions, Bane did it, so I see no reason why Starkiller's will is any weaker than Bane's. Not to mention the amount of time Zannah took to gather that energy in her duel with Bane, and against Starkiller's speed and ferocity, she wouldn't have much chance to gather her energy for Sith Sorcery, thus removing her greatest talents from the equation, giving Starkiller a greater chance against her.

Ascendancy
Originally posted by jmoul
If you are referring to Zannah's tendrils of dark side energy, remember that she has to concentrate constantly and the amount of energy she needs is immense. Then her mind demons trick works only on those whose will isn't strong enough to see through the illusions, Bane did it, so I see no reason why Starkiller's will is any weaker than Bane's. Not to mention the amount of time Zannah took to gather that energy in her duel with Bane, and against Starkiller's speed and ferocity, she wouldn't have much chance to gather her energy for Sith Sorcery, thus removing her greatest talents from the equation, giving Starkiller a greater chance against her.

Bane knew of her sorcery and had studied all of the holocrons and scrolls that she used to at least some extent. Galen has no such foreknowledge.

I wasn't referring to the tendrils as any manifestation of them would be limited if she didn't have darkside energy to draw on.

-kV-
Originally posted by The_Tempest
From the sounds of it, you're examining these things holistically, through the lens of a potentially scripted battle. There's merit to that worldview. Honestly, the majority of fights we consider "lol stomp" would probably not be if it occurred in an actual EU novel. Therein, battles are subject to nebulous elements like circumstance, motivation, terrain, and a host of character idiosyncrasies.

Typically, though, we compare these things feat-to-feat and quote-to-quote and assume characters are playing "at their best."

I definitely think there's room for discussion there, but it would make a difficult process even more convoluted.


Honestly, I would imagine the fights to be like this:

Old Republic Cinematic

If the combatants are in close proximity, they won't ever have time to unleash Force powers unless there's a sufficient amount of distance (as evidenced in the cinematic).

In this gauntlet, Marek loses to Zonakin, Sidious, Yoda, and Grand Master Luke.

Pwned
Originally posted by jmoul
His loss to Sidious depends on which source you look at. In the game it was self-sacrifice, in the book it was an utter stomp.

Also, all of the strong opponents would be able to sense Starkiller building up power and try to respond, but don't forget that he has an hour to rest and prepare in advance before each fight, so if he had any brain at all he would gather his strength while he rested, therefore, pwned, your argue kent about Bane killing Starkiller before he gathers his power is, in nice terms, invalid. I haven;t beaten the game in a while, but I do believe he was still losing.


And the problem is, nobody can hold Force energy in them for a long time. He would get one shot at it and then its over.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by jmoul
His loss to Sidious depends on which source you look at. In the game it was self-sacrifice, in the book it was an utter stomp.



It was self sacrifice in the book. He purposely put down his defenses to save the rebels.

Since the game doesn't contradict that notion(how would we know from the cut scene if he was putting down his force defenses) we can possibly take that as canon.

I don't know where utter stomp comes from. In the novel Sidious screams. In the comic he's left smoking. In the game he simply wins unscathed.

But utter stomp? I'm not sure that happens anywhere. Utter stomp would basically be a non-fight. However there clearly was a fight and struggle in all mediums.

jmoul
What happened after he dropped his defenses is what I was referring to. After he did that, he was utterly stomped. Sorry for the confusion there.

Arhael
I will point out again that he lost in unfair and onesided contest. He had no absorb ability or lightsaber to defend against lightning.

Neither canon source shows him losing "quite handily".


Marek drilled his saber skills just like Force skills from childhood. And he demonstrated his skill on multiple occasions and nowhere he was shown to be inferior in any way.
Whether Bane or Marek is better cannot be determined.


You think so? Where exactly is it stated that he needs to gather power?

How about this:
"He caught the general in a choke hold and maintained his grip even though it turned partially back on him. He had been ready for this; his lungs were full. The general, however, clutched at his throat with one hand while barely managing to parry with the other. The apprentice let the fire in his lungs fuel his lust for triumph. Even as darkness crowded around the edges of his vision, he sent objects hurtling at Kota's legs and face, battling him on all fronts.

Finally a fragment of smoking debris struck the general's knees from behind. With a cry of frustration, the flailing Jedi went down, his face purple and eyes bulging. The apprentice relented slightly, letting them both have a little air"

As you see Marek demonstrated Force choking, attacking with lightsaber and throwing objects simultaniously, while he was Force choked himself. Even Dooku's offensive TK is childs play comparing to him.

Likes of Dooku, Kenobi and Anakin are unable to break free from Force choke. Marek in comparison could break free even from Vader's grip:
"One black glove clenched, and for a moment the apprentice's throat closed tight.

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room"


I always pay attention to such circumstances.
Indeed, Luke seem to hold back most of the time and use just enough Force to overcome his opponent.

But as I pointed out above it is not just immense power that makes Marek to stand out, it is how he utilizes his power during saber combat to outwit opponents.

Most of opponents Luke faced were just trying to overpower him like Unu'thul with no attempt to outwit or outskill.

Jacen outwits Luke:
"Jacen stopped cutting at the tendrils and flung a hand toward the ceiling.

"Dad, look —
Luke was already throwing himself to the deck. A tremendous crash sounded from the illumination panel, and the chamber fell instantly dark. He rolled opposite the direction he had just been moving, but wasn't quick enough. The fixture smashed into his head and shoulders, slamming his face into the deck. He heard something crunch in his nose and was instantly choking on his own thick blood."

A Sith electrocutes Luke:
"Then he rolled his blade around, brought it down, and sent a Sith
forearm sliding across the grotto floor. Whom it had belonged to, Ben could not tell.
In the next instant his father was riding a bolt of Force lightning into the grotto wall beside him. Ben ignited his lightsaber and shoved the blade into
the crackling energy, disrupting the current and freeing his father".

Yes, as you said it's all circumstantial. However, fact stays that Marek specifically excells at outwitting his opponents and noone Luke faced apart from Jacen was as good at it.

DARTH POWER
Yes Starkiller was a beast with the Force. And pretty skilled in Sabers too. There's very few Jedi/Sith who could stand up to him in an all out, and I don't see anyone "stomping" him.

Ascendancy
Originally posted by Arhael



You think so? Where exactly is it stated that he needs to gather power?

How about this:
"He caught the general in a choke hold and maintained his grip even though it turned partially back on him. He had been ready for this; his lungs were full. The general, however, clutched at his throat with one hand while barely managing to parry with the other. The apprentice let the fire in his lungs fuel his lust for triumph. Even as darkness crowded around the edges of his vision, he sent objects hurtling at Kota's legs and face, battling him on all fronts.

Finally a fragment of smoking debris struck the general's knees from behind. With a cry of frustration, the flailing Jedi went down, his face purple and eyes bulging. The apprentice relented slightly, letting them both have a little air"

As you see Marek demonstrated Force choking, attacking with lightsaber and throwing objects simultaniously, while he was Force choked himself. Even Dooku's offensive TK is childs play comparing to him.

Likes of Dooku, Kenobi and Anakin are unable to break free from Force choke. Marek in comparison could break free even from Vader's grip:
"One black glove clenched, and for a moment the apprentice's throat closed tight.

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room"


I always pay attention to such circumstances.
Indeed, Luke seem to hold back most of the time and use just enough Force to overcome his opponent.

But as I pointed out above it is not just immense power that makes Marek to stand out, it is how he utilizes his power during saber combat to outwit opponents.

Most of opponents Luke faced were just trying to overpower him like Unu'thul with no attempt to outwit or outskill.



Nice write-up, but I was in no way talking about basic Force techniques. I was talking about massive displays of lighting such as both Bane and Galen unleashed, or large scale Force waves, etc, all of which take time to gather.

I was in no way saying that close in Galen is weak, just that his most overwhelming attacks will not be brought to bear in close-quarters and that in that situation I believe Bane will conquer him, and if not Bane, Zannah, assuming that he falls to no one in between.

I do not believe him capable of taking the entire gauntlet.

Rookwood
He pretty much loses at DoE Bane.

DoE Bane is equal with Sidious in terms of combat-abilities. Marek would put up a slight struggle but die.

jmoul
Starkiller put up a pretty strong fight against Sidious and would've won had Kota not kept him from falling back to the dark side (game version). Since Starkiller chose to accept his fate and save the Rebel Leaders to remain a Jedi, you can't really say that he fully lost to Sidious, and, therefore, can't really say that he would lose to Bane or Zannah for that specific reason.

The_Tempest
First, Starkiller "was no match for the power of Darth Sidious" (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia). The degree to which the latter is superior to the former is up for debate; the fact that he is is not.

Second, prior research is all well and good, but concluding Character X is lesser or greater than or equal to Character Y based on arguments from previous threads is nothing more than an argument by consensus, which is a blatant logical fallacy.

Sybrael
On Wikipedia, Vader is declared more powerful in the Force than Yoda, and look at how Galen wupped Vader's arse, not to mention Palpatine's, who managed to Repulse Yoda off of a platform.

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Sybrael
On Wikipedia, Vader is declared more powerful in the Force than Yoda, and look at how Galen wupped Vader's arse, not to mention Palpatine's, who managed to Repulse Yoda off of a platform.

Well, Wiki is wrong on this one....

Also IMHO:
OT Palpatine > RotS Palpatine = RotS Yoda > Galen >= Vader

NewGuy01
Originally posted by jmoul
In the Cato Nemoidian arena. Starkiller has two lightsabers, is completely in the zone and gets an hour's rest between rounds, with one warm up round:

Johun Othone
DoE Darth Bane
RotS Anakin
RotJ Darth Sidious
RotJ Luke
DoE Darth Zannah
AotC Yoda
Count Dooku
Grand Master Luke

How far does Starkiller get and how long does he last in his last round?

He stomps fight one, and depending on whether or not Bane has his Orbalisks, round 2 is debatable. However, I'm going to assume he's not, and say he loses at Anakin or Sidious.

If he was going to just fight Grand Master Luke, he wouldn't last long, I'm afraid.

jmoul
It is DoE Bane. No orbalisks.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Well, Wiki is wrong on this one....

Also IMHO:
OT Palpatine > RotS Palpatine = RotS Yoda > Galen >= Vader

I agree, completely, with this entire chart.

Arhael
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Nice write-up, but I was in no way talking about basic Force techniques.

Basic? Quite opposite. Unleashing powerful Force attack like lightning in blatant attempt to overpower opponent is as basic as it could be. It demonstrates no skill and works, only if one character is significantly more powerful and still not always.

Marek demonstrated Force choking, throwing objects and attacking with lightsaber simultaniously. It is as advanced and as skilled utilization of the Force as there possibly could be. Likes of Kenobi, Ventress and even Dooku got handled by Force choke alone.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Ascendancy
I was in no way saying that close in Galen is weak, just that his most overwhelming attacks will not be brought to bear in close-quarters

Considering that his overwhelming attacks derive from standard abilities (telekinesis, lighting, etc.) and those powers are routinely utilized by adepts in single combat, I'm curious what leads you to this conclusion.

jmoul
Those basic powers are used alone most often, Starkiller was able to do them all simultaneously, a bit more advanced than the basics if you ask me. At the same time, when he uses a single power, it is powerful to a terrifying level. So whether in close quarters or not, Starkiller kills, as his name suggests.

Rookwood
Originally posted by -kV-

In this gauntlet, Marek loses to Bane, Sidious, Yoda, and Grand Master Luke.

Fixed.

And I don't see RotS Anakin surviving Marek, at all.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
Fixed.

And I don't see RotS Anakin surviving Marek, at all.

Why do you say that?

I personally would give Marek the majority but I do think the possibility exists for ROTS Anakin to win.

End of the day Mace Windu defeated a far superior Force user to him just by besting him in Saber combat.

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Why do you say that?

Specifically so I could get a response from you, and we could flirt with each other. roll eyes (sarcastic)


Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I personally would give Marek the majority but I do think the possibility exists for ROTS Anakin to win.


Anakin wouldn't be able to take the sheer power behind Marek's swings, and Marek could simply just blow him apart with some Force attacks.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER

End of the day Mace Windu defeated a far superior Force user to him just by besting him in Saber combat.

Sidious wasn't "far" superior to him - hell, he wasn't even truly "superior" to him, at all.

In ranged-attacks, maybe. But overall? No, not at all.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
Specifically so I could get a response from you, and we could flirt with each other. roll eyes (sarcastic)





Anakin wouldn't be able to take the sheer power behind Marek's swings, and Marek could simply just blow him apart with some Force attacks.




Sidious wasn't "far" superior to him - hell, he wasn't even truly "superior" to him, at all.

In ranged-attacks, maybe. But overall? No, not at all.

My comparison was suggesting that Sidious is considerably beyond Mace in Force attacks but Mace not exactly being a slouch in the Force but having the edge over Sidious in Sabers was able to defeat him.

Whilst the difference in Force Powers will be much larger between Galen and Anakin(Favoring Marek of course) I also think the difference in Saber prowess between the 2 will be greater (favoring Skywalker).

And let's not forget Anakin's very inconsistent in his use of the Force. He has dominated both The Son and Daughter once, a feat that was beyond any Jedi or Sith.

But something he's shown to do much more consistently is tank Force attacks. He's been able to tank all Count Dooku's attacks and still carry on fighting without being noticeably injured.

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
My comparison was suggesting that Sidious is considerably beyond Mace in Force attacks but Mace not exactly being a slouch in the Force but having the edge over Sidious in Sabers was able to defeat him.


Powerful Sith having an edge in Force attacks over powerful Jedi, is not uncommon.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Whilst the difference in Force Powers will be much larger between Galen and Anakin(Favoring Marek of course) I also think the difference in Saber prowess between the 2 will be greater (favoring Skywalker).

I don't think Anakin will get to engage Galen in saber-combat, before Marek simply blows him up.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER

And let's not forget Anakin's very inconsistent in his use of the Force. He has dominated both The Son and Daughter once, a feat that was beyond any Jedi or Sith.

Is this from that The Clone Wars crap?


Originally posted by DARTH POWER

But something he's shown to do much more consistently is tank Force attacks. He's been able to tank all Count Dooku's attacks and still carry on fighting without being noticeably injured.

Anakin can tank Dooku's TK and shrug it off and keep going - but there is a big difference, between tanking Dooku's TK, and attempting to tank Marek's TK - which will rip him to pieces.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
Powerful Sith having an edge in Force attacks over powerful Jedi, is not uncommon.

I'd say it's more than just an edge.

Even with his Lightsaber Mace really struggles to catch and deflect Sidious's Lightning. So I don't see what chance he would have without his Lightsaber.

Also according to the novel and the script Sidious almost wins the fight via a powerful force push.




Originally posted by Rookwood
I don't think Anakin will get to engage Galen in saber-combat, before Marek simply blows him up.

Strange theory considering pretty much everyone Galen fought managed to engage him in Lightsaber combat.

Also which Jedi did Galen "simply blow up?"


Originally posted by Rookwood
Is this from that The Clone Wars crap?

Yes it's from that crap created and executive produced by George Lucas. That crap that's higher in canonicity than the rest of the eu.

But seriously if you really want to discuss Star Wars canon then you need to watch that show. Or at least be familiar with the main events occuring in it.

The Son and Daughter have already been mentioned in eu novels. Because everything created by Lucas is the source material for the rest of the eu.




Originally posted by Rookwood
Anakin can tank Dooku's TK and shrug it off and keep going - but there is a big difference, between tanking Dooku's TK, and attempting to tank Marek's TK - which will rip him to pieces.

True there is a big difference between Marek's and Dooku's force powers. But my point is there's no basis to say Anakin would get blown up or ripped apart when he's tanked all the Force attacks of the most powerful Jedi/Sith he's faced.

But like I said I would give Galen the majority. But there's definitely room for Anakin to take some wins Imho. Even if it's just 2/3 out of 10.

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'd say it's more than just an edge.

Even with his Lightsaber Mace really struggles to catch and deflect Sidious's Lightning. So I don't see what chance he would have without his Lightsaber.

Also according to the novel and the script Sidious almost wins the fight via a powerful force push.

I've read both, and I don't recall it saying that.





Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Strange theory considering pretty much everyone Galen fought managed to engage him in Lightsaber combat.

Also which Jedi did Galen "simply blow up?"

I heard Galen had the physical ability to crunch Durasteel up, etc.

I haven't played that shitty game, but I've seen bits and pieces where he uses the Force to rip things apart casually.




Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Yes it's from that crap created and executive produced by George Lucas. That crap that's higher in canonicity than the rest of the eu.

But seriously if you really want to discuss Star Wars canon then you need to watch that show. Or at least be familiar with the main events occuring in it.

The Son and Daughter have already been mentioned in eu novels. Because everything created by Lucas is the source material for the rest of the eu.


I did watch it - paid money to go see the Pilot in Theaters.

Then I watched season 1 - until the episode where Dooku was caught like a mouse by some pirates.

Then I realized it's essentially Retarded-garbage intended for children or those with an IQ of 10 or below.

I don't consider any of that crap to be Canon, and not surprisingly, a lot of other people don't, as well.




Originally posted by DARTH POWER

True there is a big difference between Marek's and Dooku's force powers. But my point is there's no basis to say Anakin would get blown up or ripped apart when he's tanked all the Force attacks of the most powerful Jedi/Sith he's faced.

But like I said I would give Galen the majority. But there's definitely room for Anakin to take some wins Imho. Even if it's just 2/3 out of 10.

Tanking Dooku's attacks, wouldn't be like trying to tank Galen's.

Based on what I've seen of Galen's power; If Galen wanted to rip Anakin apart - then Anakin would be ripped apart.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
I've read both, and I don't recall it saying that.

You should read more carefully.

From the script:

Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

Not got the novel on me but it's towards the end of the fight. I'm sure you don't need me to underline that one for you as well wink






Originally posted by Rookwood
Tanking Dooku's attacks, wouldn't be like trying to tank Galen's.

Based on what I've seen of Galen's power; If Galen wanted to rip Anakin apart - then Anakin would be ripped apart.

It's up to you to prove this. The facts are these:

1. Galen never ripped apart a Jedi or a Sith with the force.
2. Anakin has shrugged off the Force attacks from the most powerful Jedi/Sith he's faced.

So again, what are you basing this idea that Galen would just rip Anakin apart on?

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You should read more carefully.

From the script:

Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

You should read more carefully. wink

I meant I didn't recall him being nearly killed by a Force push.

I knew Sidious used one, but you implied initially that the push itself almost killed him.

So in retrospect, you should read and write, more carefully. laughing

(Because I wouldn't put it past your stupidity, to actually imply that a Force push from Sidious would kill Mace in RotS)




Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Not got the novel on me but it's towards the end of the fight. I'm sure you don't need me to underline that one for you as well wink

You mean it says in the novel that Sidious nearly killed Mace with a Force push, as well?

Sure, show me where it says that. laughing






Originally posted by DARTH POWER

It's up to you to prove this. The facts are these:

1. Galen never ripped apart a Jedi or a Sith with the force.
2. Anakin has shrugged off the Force attacks from the most powerful Jedi/Sith he's faced.

So again, what are you basing this idea that Galen would just rip Anakin apart on?

I don't know, probably the part where he telekinetically guides down a falling war machine weighing millions of tons.

That's more force than any Sith or Jedi has ever attacked him with.

Hell, he wouldn't need to rip him apart - he could just crush him to death.

Galen was able to throw Sidious into the ground with his TK, so I'd like to see how Anakin would fare any better. cool

Arhael
Which was done through channeling effort. It has no relevance to actual combat. Dorsk 81 pushed 14 Star Destroyers, yet, he was never known to be above at least Kyp in TK.
As for combat Marek's TK was useless against Kota. He, also, Force pushed Vader with force of small explosion and Vader as result got, well... Force pushed.


He never implied that Force push itself nearly killed Windu. As always low grade insults and zero usefulness in your posts. thumb up

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
You should read more carefully. wink

I meant I didn't recall him being nearly killed by a Force push.

I knew Sidious used one, but you implied initially that the push itself almost killed him.

So in retrospect, you should read and write, more carefully. laughing

(Because I wouldn't put it past your stupidity, to actually imply that a Force push from Sidious would kill Mace in RotS)

I said the Force Push Almost cost him the fight which is implied by this part:

but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

I didn't say the Force Push itself almost killed him or anything even close to that.

Being slammed against a wall is never a good thing especially in a scenario where both combatants are fighting equally well in the Saber portion of the fight (according to the novel).



Originally posted by Rookwood
You mean it says in the novel that Sidious nearly killed Mace with a Force push, as well?

Sure, show me where it says that. laughing


The novel also implies Sidious's Force push almost cost Mace the fight, and it's clearly implied his Force push is considerably beyond Mace's own force push.

Besides which it almost costing him the fight was never an argument in and of itself. Just that from that part of the novel and script it's clear Sidious's Force TK is beyond Mace's. And that the difference is more than just a little.


Originally posted by Rookwood
I don't know, probably the part where he telekinetically guides down a falling war machine weighing millions of tons.

That's more force than any Sith or Jedi has ever attacked him with.

Hell, he wouldn't need to rip him apart - he could just crush him to death.

Arhael has responded to this perfectly.


Originally posted by Rookwood
Galen was able to throw Sidious into the ground with his TK, so I'd like to see how Anakin would fare any better. cool

Your making it sound like I said Galen's force attacks won't effect Anakin, or that I said Anakin would win a majority.

That's not my stance at all.

Originally posted by Arhael
As always low grade insults and zero usefulness in your posts. thumb up


Too much of this lately on these boards. People get frustrated when you make a valid point against their stance and then just resort to pettiness to try and get around it.

jmoul
^ Amen.

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