Who's the most powerful?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



byrdgang21
Rank these guys in order of overall power & impressiveness.


Cosmic Armor Superman
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Thanos w/ HOTU
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Scathan
Mandrakk
GEB
Chaos King
SBP Time Trapper
Spectre
Classic Beyonder

the Darkone
By Feats alone Classic Beyonder and WF Mxy would be top dogs than PR MM than so on.




1. Classic Beyonder
Thanos w/ HOTU
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk

2.

GEB
Scathan
Spectre
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Adam Warlock w/ IG

3.
Chaos King
SBP Time Trapper

Branlor Swift
Iron Fist

StiltmanFTW
thumb up

Glorificus
1. Thanos w/ HOTU
Classic Beyonder
3. GEB
4. Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
6. Scathan
7. Warlock w/IG
8. Spectre (Corrigan only)
Chaos King
10. Amazo w/ Worlogog
11. SBP Time Trapper

That's roughly how I'd order them.

Cogito
Originally posted by byrdgang21
Rank these guys in order of overall power & impressiveness.


Cosmic Armor Superman
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Thanos w/ HOTU
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Scathan
Mandrakk
GEB
Chaos King
SBP Time Trapper
Spectre
Classic Beyonder

Tier 1 (No order):
Thanos w/ HOTU
GEB

Tier 2:
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
Classic Beyonder

Tier 3:
Adam Warlock w/ IG

Tier 4:
Amazo w/ 'gog

Tier 5:
Chaos King

Tier 6:
SBP Time Trapper

Not Ranked:
Spectre (Variable)
Scathan (I'm not convinced that him judging against Protege proves him greater than LT. Seems just like writer stupidity to me)

Golgo13
Originally posted by Cogito
Tier 1 (No order):
Thanos w/ HOTU
GEB

Tier 2:
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
Classic Beyonder

Tier 3:
Adam Warlock w/ IG

Tier 4:
Amazo w/ 'gog

Tier 5:
Chaos King

Tier 6:
SBP Time Trapper

Not Ranked:
Spectre (Variable)
Scathan (I'm not convinced that him judging against Protege proves him greater than LT. Seems just like writer stupidity to me)

thumb up

Horrificus
A weak old man can be a judge and judge against a very powerful, more dangerous man.
It doesn't mean the judge is a more dangerous combatant.

Zack Fair
Gammafather.

tijay
What was the worlogog's powers

dynamix
Originally posted by Cogito
Tier 1 (No order):
Thanos w/ HOTU
GEB

Tier 2:
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
Classic Beyonder

Tier 3:
Adam Warlock w/ IG

Tier 4:
Amazo w/ 'gog

Tier 5:
Chaos King

Tier 6:
SBP Time Trapper

Not Ranked:
Spectre (Variable)
Scathan (I'm not convinced that him judging against Protege proves him greater than LT. Seems just like writer stupidity to me)

i would put PR Beyonder in tier 1 but aside from that i think this ranking is pretty solid.

h1a8
Originally posted by dynamix
i would put PR Beyonder in tier 1 but aside from that i think this ranking is pretty solid. toaa > pre ret beyonder so he can't be in tier 1.

Plus doom stole Beyonders power. That's not happening to GEB or TOAA

Endless Mike
1. Squirrel Girl
2. All these shmucks

Mr Master
Originally posted by byrdgang21
Rank these guys in order of overall power & impressiveness.

Thanos w/ HOTU
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Scathan
Chaos King
Classic Beyonder
DC isn't my thing.

But concerning Marvel:

Beyonder/HOTI
Scathan
IG
Chaos King

btw. Scathan didn't just "judge" Protege, in fact, Scathan didn't "judge" Protege at all,
that was the LT. (while Scathan restrained Protege without the muzzle)

Scathan stomped the combined power of:
the Living Tribunal-All Eternity-Hawkgod (who was multiversal as well but below Eternity)
-Mephisto-his daughter Malevolence-GOTG, and Protege's own inherent base abilities.

Scathan stomped all that, with a gesture! smile

h1a8
Originally posted by Mr Master
DC isn't my thing.

But concerning Marvel:

Beyonder/HOTI
Scathan
IG
Chaos King

btw. Scathan didn't just "judge" Protege, in fact, Scathan didn't "judge" Protege at all,
that was the LT. (while Scathan restrained Protege without the muzzle)

Scathan stomped the combined power of:
the Living Tribunal-All Eternity-Hawkgod (who was multiversal as well but below Eternity)
-Mephisto-his daughter Malevolence-GOTG, and Protege's own inherent base abilities.

Scathan stomped all that, with a gesture! smile

having the power of lt doesn't mean you are able to use it like him.
King Thor in the beginning was inferior to Odin because of lack of know how.

muffling someone doesn't mean you are more powerful than them. reed can muffle almost anyone under trans with prep.

beyonder was not equal to hotu thanos since he had the ability to have his powers taken away from another. plus no one can be more powerful than toaa

TheGodKiller
http://24.media.tumblr.com/d0b01d78ebdf81b8824e8e546d3501ac/tumblr_mgozbhtqap1qhnoxno1_500.gif

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master
DC isn't my thing.

But concerning Marvel:

Beyonder/HOTI
Scathan
IG
Chaos King

btw. Scathan didn't just "judge" Protege, in fact, Scathan didn't "judge" Protege at all,
that was the LT. (while Scathan restrained Protege without the muzzle)

Scathan stomped the combined power of:
the Living Tribunal-All Eternity-Hawkgod (who was multiversal as well but below Eternity)
-Mephisto-his daughter Malevolence-GOTG, and Protege's own inherent base abilities.

Scathan stomped all that, with a gesture! smile

i disagree, the comic makes it clear that scathan was the one who judged against protege, not only that, but LT's own bio states that:

http://i.imgur.com/egibB7f.jpg?1

i do agree on the ranking, however.

TheGodKiller
Only the bio states that. The comic only portrayed Scathan as disapproving of Protege's actions and subsequently overpowering and restraining him via celestial muzzle ftw.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Only the bio states that. The comic only portrayed Scathan as disapproving of Protege's actions and subsequently overpowering and restraining him via celestial muzzle ftw. So are you saying that Scathan acted like Spectre there. And he was granted power from TOAA to muzzle Protege because of his righteous judgement.
In other words, without the judgement then Scathan would have been powerless against Protege?

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

i disagree, the comic makes it clear that scathan was the one who
judged against protege, not only that, but LT's own bio states that:

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Only the bio states that. The comic only portrayed Scathan as
disapproving of Protege's actions and subsequently overpowering and
restraining him via celestial muzzle ftw.
thumb up

Be certain opr616 before stating "the comic makes it clear" ...

An honest mistake I'm sure.
Originally posted by h1a8

having the power of lt doesn't mean you are able to use it like him.

muffling someone doesn't mean you are more powerful than them.
no expression

Once again: Scathan stomped the combined power of the LT, Eternity, Hawkgod etc.

"muffling?" I'm assuming you didn't really read this story.
Originally posted by h1a8

beyonder was not equal to hotu thanos since he had the ability to
have his powers taken away from another.
plus no one can be more powerful than toaa
Beyonder coerced that non-existent future Doom into doing that.
It was Shooter's PIS way to make Beyonder curious while de-powered,
so he could return again in SWII looking for the meaning to the desire he felt while de-powered.
The latest explanation is that Beyonder's power went to Doom
because Doom wanted it more than Beyonder. lol.

Anyway, yea, Beyonder=THOTI ... and there's even a debate there
that could reasonably put Beyonder > HOTI, but stalemate is proper conclusion.

btw. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI is TOAA's power withIN reality, but it was TOAA that
created THOTI/Thanos/the Omniverse/the LT and all that jazz
with the stroke of a pencil.

Mr Master
Originally posted by h1a8

So are you saying that Scathan acted like Spectre there. And he
was granted power from TOAA to muzzle Protege because of his righteous judgement.
In other words, without the judgement then Scathan would have been
powerless against Protege?
Scathan first stomped Protege with visible energy via a gesture,
then Scathan muzzled Protege.

Then Scathan removed the muzzle (mind you Protege keeps his upgrade)
and while Scathan physically holds Protege,
then the LT judges him.

h1a8
Originally posted by Mr Master
thumb up

Be certain opr616 before stating "the comic makes it clear" ...

An honest mistake I'm sure.

no expression

Once again: Scathan stomped the combined power of the LT. Eternity, Hawkgod etc.

"muffling?" I'm assuming you didn't really read this story.

Beyonder coerced that non-existent future Doom into doing that.
It was Shooter's PIS way to make Beyonder curious while de-powered,
so he could return again in SWII looking for the meaning to the desire he felt while de-powered.
The latest explanation is that Beyonder's power went to Doom
because Doom wanted it more than Beyonder. lol.

Anyway, yea, Beyonder=THOTI ... and there's even a debate there
that could reasonably put Beyonder > HOTI.

btw. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI is TOAA's power withIN reality, but it was TOAA that
created THOTI/Thanos/the Omniverse/the LT and all that jazz
with the stroke of a pencil.

It was understood that Thanos was as powerful as TOAA. So for all practical purposes and without speculation it's best to assume that. If TOAA can create THOTI and still retain his powers then THOTI can be used to create another THOTI/Thanos/Megaverse/LT and all that jazz. He one shot killed Celestials. Beyonder wasn't shown that powerful in his engagement with the Celestials.

Anyway, the stealing of Beyonder's power automatically disqualifies him from top position. Without that, I still didn't get the impression that he was as powerful as Thanos here.

carver9
Didn't Beyonder "allow" Doom to take his powers?

Mr Master
^^ thumb up Grant it, they at-least used a stipulation.
Originally posted by h1a8

It was understood that Thanos was as powerful as TOAA. So for all
practical purposes and without speculation it's best to assume that. If
TOAA can create THOTI and still retain his powers then THOTI can be
used to create another THOTI/Thanos/Megaverse/LT and all that jazz.
He one shot killed Celestials. Beyonder wasn't shown that powerful in
his engagement with the Celestials.
I'm not here to do guesswork friend.

It's simple. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI = supreme power withIN the Marvel omniverse.

TOAA = power that creates THOTI with the stoke of a pencil.

Simple.

Also, Beyonder didn't wanna kill Celestials, just beat the crap out of them hand to hand.
Originally posted by h1a8

Anyway, the stealing of Beyonder's power automatically disqualifies him from top position.
I just explained the circumstances.
Or this Beyonder under the exact same stipulated conditions?
Originally posted by h1a8

Without that, I still didn't get the
impression that he was as powerful as Thanos here.
Thanos' top feat, absorbing/remaking the LT easily.
He also absorbed/recreated all space-time.

Beyonder never battled the LT, because the LT "trembled in fear,
and was "desperate."
Beyonder created from scratch the Beyond Realm though,
and it was quintillions of times larger than the trans-infinite Marvelverse.
That's an estimate accorrding to Shooter's analogy,
an Ocean (Beyond Realm) next to a droplet of water (infinite Marvelverse)

zopzop
Originally posted by Mr Master
DC isn't my thing.

But concerning Marvel:

Beyonder/HOTI
Scathan
IG
Chaos King

btw. Scathan didn't just "judge" Protege, in fact, Scathan didn't "judge" Protege at all,
that was the LT. (while Scathan restrained Protege without the muzzle)

Scathan stomped the combined power of:
the Living Tribunal-All Eternity-Hawkgod (who was multiversal as well but below Eternity)
-Mephisto-his daughter Malevolence-GOTG, and Protege's own inherent base abilities.

Scathan stomped all that, with a gesture! smile
thumb up

Sundipped
@Mr.M

I remember LT as being the only one being unaffected by Scathan when Scathan crashed the party. So in essence, he wasn't stomped per say.

ODG
Classic Beyonder
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
GEB
Thanos w/ HOTU
Scathan
Chaos King
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Spectre
SBP Time Trapper

h1a8
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ thumb up Grant it, they at-least used a stipulation.

I'm not here to do guesswork friend.

It's simple. TOAA > THOTI

THOTI = supreme power withIN the Marvel omniverse.

TOAA = power that creates THOTI with the stoke of a pencil.

Simple.

Also, Beyonder didn't wanna kill Celestials, just beat the crap out of them hand to hand.

I just explained the circumstances.
Or this Beyonder under the exact same stipulated conditions?

Thanos' top feat, absorbing/remaking the LT easily.
He also absorbed/recreated all space-time.

Beyonder never battled the LT, because the LT "trembled in fear,
and was "desperate."
Beyonder created from scratch the Beyond Realm though,
and it was quintillions of times larger than the trans-infinite Marvelverse.
That's an estimate accorrding to Shooter's analogy,
an Ocean (Beyond Realm) next to a droplet of water (infinite Marvelverse)
There is nothing outside the omniverse by definition.
Also in Marvel comics then there is nothing outside of Marvel as well.

Ok TOAA>THOTI because of the pencil
But THOTI>>Beyonder no matter what feats he has since THOTI is the power of TOAA in Marvel. With the THOTI the cubes beings (beyonder) can be created.

the Darkone
Thanos w/ HOTU / Classic BeyonderClassic Beyonder
Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk
GEB
Scathan
Chaos King
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Spectre
SBP Time Trapper

Mr Master
Originally posted by zopzop
thumb up
smile
Originally posted by Sundipped
@Mr.M

I remember LT as being the only one being unaffected by Scathan
when Scathan crashed the party. So in essence, he wasn't stomped per say.
Hey there good friend.

He stomped Protege, who had their combined powers.

I don't think Scathan meant to stomp anyone else there,
they were just blown around from Scathan's unleashed power.
Scathan stomped Protege before he erased the the LT, Eternity & the rest.
This is exactly why Scathan interfered. The kid was gonna go too far.
Originally posted by h1a8

There is nothing outside the omniverse by definition.

Also in Marvel comics then there is nothing outside of Marvel as well.
The Beyond Realm was outside all of Marvel at the time:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16161596_Beyonder_Outside.jpg

This was confirmed by Shooter again
in that "Marvel Age" interview we've all seen many times:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1799763_jim2mj1.jpg
Originally posted by h1a8

a)Ok TOAA>THOTI because of the pencil

b)But THOTI>>Beyonder no matter what feats he has since THOTI
is the power of TOAA in Marvel. With the THOTI the cubes beings
(beyonder) can be created.
a) thumb up

b) Classic Beyonder is not a Cube being.

As for your comparison to TOAA and THOTI, one could argue that Beyonder
was Shooter's god-complex coming to life.

------------------------------------------------------


This is probably why ol' Jimmy had Stan Lee bowing to the Beyonder:

(left bottom corner ... top of his index finger ... Beyonder's right hand)

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15315001_Beyonder_TOAA.jpg

(top right corner)

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15315002_Beyonder_TOAA2.jpg

laughing out loud stick out tongue

-------------------------------------------------

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Beyonder "allow" Doom to take his powers? No.

Don't ask again.

Badabing
Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Beyonder "allow" Doom to take his powers? http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Doomownswhelp_zps3ef31511.jpg

h1a8
Originally posted by Mr Master
smile

Hey there good friend.

He stomped Protege, who had their combined powers.

I don't think Scathan meant to stomp anyone else there,
they were just blown around from Scathan's unleashed power.
Scathan stomped Protege before he erased the the LT, Eternity & the rest.
This is exactly why Scathan interfered. The kid was gonna go too far.

The Beyond Realm was outside all of Marvel at the time:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16161596_Beyonder_Outside.jpg

Ok but nothing is outside the omniverse. Beyonder was outside the multiverse that contained the 616 universe. When we say the term Marvel we mean anything and everything contained in Marvel comics. That means all universes inside or outside the multiverse that contains the 616 universe if it is written about in Marvel comics. Unless you mean to use the term Marvel Multiverse or even Marvel Universe.


Ok my mistake. I'm confusing the scene where it explained he was a cubed being.

But you know that's silly right? Stan Lee can just erase Beyonder with his pencil. He doesn't exist in real life.

Mr Master
Originally posted by h1a8

Ok but nothing is outside the omniverse. Beyonder was outside the
multiverse that contained the 616 universe. When we say the term
Marvel we mean anything and everything contained in Marvel comics.
That means all universes inside or outside the multiverse that contains
the 616 universe if it is written about in Marvel comics. Unless you
mean to use the term Marvel Multiverse or even Marvel Universe.
That was all of Marvel at the time.

Two realities: Marvelverse and the Beyond Realm.

Today, All Eternity, just like back in 85,
is still contained withIN the same trans-infinite Prime Multiverse!
Originally posted by h1a8

But you know that's silly right? Stan Lee can just erase Beyonder
with his pencil. He doesn't exist in real life.
Who's talking about real life? I'm using in-comics On Panel artwork for depictions. stoned

... jokes aside, I'm sorry friend, I don't think you realize how big time Beyonder was.

JakeTheBank
Prepless and armorless Doom.

Mr Master
bueno ya tu ve, y ahora que vino esa vyna de la pelicula seƱor de los aniyos,
yo boy a saqua pata elmano polque ahora e la hora de lo mama binbine.

Happy July 4 montro! KMC! Time to get lifted! stoned

beatboks
Originally posted by tijay
What was the worlogog's powers

It grants the owner mastery of time and space.
It is also a complete map of the space time continuum

operator616
@TheGodKiller, @Mr. Master:

By disapproving of protege's action, scathan judged against him

http://i.imgur.com/CgIhabA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V7KP0De.jpg

in any case, that was not the final judgment, the final judgment was about to start:

http://i.imgur.com/o90dOgW.jpg

the LT decides what to do with protege, and it was up to scathan to approve or disapprove of this action, in which case he does approve:

http://i.imgur.com/i8I0eaI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mgZ8Q7L.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EApDuTb.jpg

so from what i understand, scathan was the ultimate judge at the end of the story.

also, concerning Mr. Master's reply to H1a8, the omniverse was mentioned many times before secret wars.

to give you 2 examples:

year 1982 (which you are already aware of)

http://i.imgur.com/R3Iooq9.jpg?1

year 1983 (you'll have to zoom in to read it, i couldn't edit the image)

http://i.imgur.com/spgEmWm.gif

i can give you more, but this should prove my point.

so there wasn't just the beyond realm outside the multiverse, the omniverse existed at the time, it just didn't have a direct definition.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by h1a8
So are you saying that Scathan acted like Spectre there. And he was granted power from TOAA to muzzle Protege because of his righteous judgement.
In other words, without the judgement then Scathan would have been powerless against Protege?
Scathan's "disapproval" was making a thumbs down gesture which released a huge burst of energy that rocked practically all the beings that were assembled there. He then went on to physically restrain Protege, while the LT was making his final judgement upon the boy. Clearly, anyone who has read the comic would understand and realize this simple fact, but considering that you don't even read comics, I won't comment on this matter.

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

@TheGodKiller, @Mr. Master:

By disapproving of protege's action, scathan judged against him

http://i.imgur.com/CgIhabA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V7KP0De.jpg

in any case, that was not the final judgment, the final judgment was about to start:

http://i.imgur.com/o90dOgW.jpg

the LT decides what to do with protege, and it was up to scathan to approve or disapprove of this action, in which case he does approve:

http://i.imgur.com/i8I0eaI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mgZ8Q7L.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EApDuTb.jpg

so from what i understand, scathan was the ultimate judge at the end of the story.
I disagree my friend. Scathan never "judged" Protege. Only the LT did.

"The Celestials' (Scathan) purpose, is to record and Approve of what transpires"

(go get that scan cause I'm lazy right now)

But I have this one saved. Again, Scathan is there to:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/738810_S3.jpg

"Judgement is upon you both! To that end, HE (Scathan) shall bear witness!"

Scathan is there to "observe" ... "witness" ... "approve" ...

LT = the Judge! ... Scathan = the Approver!
Originally posted by operator616

also, concerning Mr. Master's reply to H1a8, the omniverse was mentioned many
times before secret wars.

to give you 2 examples:

year 1982 (which you are already aware of)

http://i.imgur.com/R3Iooq9.jpg?1

year 1983 (you'll have to zoom in to read it, i couldn't edit the image)

http://i.imgur.com/spgEmWm.gif

i can give you more, but this should prove my point.

so there wasn't just the beyond realm outside the multiverse, the omniverse existed at the time, it just didn't have a direct definition.
"the omniverse was mentioned many times before secret wars" ... laughing out loud

First off, you funny. Didn't you just learn about that What If/LT scan not too long ago
when I posted it for ya? Anyway,
Yea, the LT stated the "omniversal constant" but we all know there was NO canon "omniverse" of multiple multiverses then.

You have to understand, it was written by Gruenwald, who came up with the term,
it meant "All Universes." That's nice, but ALL UniverseS in Marvel Pre-Nov. 1986
was the trans-infinite Multiverse.

So, when that term was used in that "What IF," back in 1982, it wasn't signifying multiple Multiverses.

---------------------------------------------


The second scan is from 1983, and its from the NON-Canon Marvel/UK line.
I can find you the term "omniverse" in that run far more than you can since I know it inside out.
It transitioned into canonicity in its re-prints which were published in off-mainstream titles. (94' and up)

btw. The Concept of, "infinite MultiverseS" didn't make its mark till 1992 in the Quasar book.

You won't find any suggestion/allusion that the "omniverse" referred to in those British books,
was anything more than an Infinite amount of alternative realities.
That goes for Marvel as well, which became more than an infinite multiverse
once the "New Universe" was introduced.

PS. No! You can't give me more, but I hope I enlightened your point.

zopzop
Originally posted by Mr Master

LT = the Judge! ... Scathan = the Approver!

Exactly Mr. M. This isn't even debatable.

The times Scathan gave either the thumbs up or thumbs down gesture, it was straight up stated on panel that "Scathan does not approve!" or "Scathan approves!".

The LT was the Judge, Scathan was there to give the thumbs up/thumbs down to the judgement that was handed down by the LT. And since the LT is a servant of TOAA, he's not gonna come down with a rubbish judgement, hence Scathan approving of what was decided by the LT.

Mr Master
^^ thumb up ... This one is pretty cut and dry.

Astner
Originally posted by byrdgang21
Rank these guys in order of overall power & impressiveness.


Cosmic Armor Superman
Amazo w/ Worlogog
Thanos w/ HOTU
Adam Warlock w/ IG
Scathan
Mandrakk
GEB
Chaos King
SBP Time Trapper
Spectre
Classic Beyonder
Classic Beyonder
Great Evil Beast
Monitor Armor Superman
Mandrakk
Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gems
Chaos King
Spectre
Scathan
Amazo with Worlogog
Superboy Prime with Time Trapper's power

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree my friend. Scathan never "judged" Protege. Only the LT did.

"The Celestials' (Scathan) purpose, is to record and Approve of what transpires"

(go get that scan cause I'm lazy right now)

But I have this one saved. Again, Scathan is there to:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/738810_S3.jpg

"Judgement is upon you both! To that end, HE (Scathan) shall bear witness!"

Scathan is there to "observe" ... "witness" ... "approve" ...

LT = the Judge! ... Scathan = the Approver!

"the omniverse was mentioned many times before secret wars" ... laughing out loud

First off, you funny. Didn't you just learn about that What If/LT scan not too long ago
when I posted it for ya? Anyway,
Yea, the LT stated the "omniversal constant" but we all know there was NO canon "omniverse" of multiple multiverses then.

You have to understand, it was written by Gruenwald, who came up with the term,
it meant "All Universes." That's nice, but ALL UniverseS in Marvel Pre-Nov. 1986
was the trans-infinite Multiverse.

So, when that term was used in that "What IF," back in 1982, it wasn't signifying multiple Multiverses.

---------------------------------------------


The second scan is from 1983, and its from the NON-Canon Marvel/UK line.
I can find you the term "omniverse" in that run far more than you can since I know it inside out.
It transitioned into canonicity in its re-prints which were published in off-mainstream titles. (94' and up)

btw. The Concept of, "infinite MultiverseS" didn't make its mark till 1992 in the Quasar book.

You won't find any suggestion/allusion that the "omniverse" referred to in those British books,
was anything more than an Infinite amount of alternative realities.
That goes for Marvel as well, which became more than an infinite multiverse
once the "New Universe" was introduced.

PS. No! You can't give me more, but I hope I enlightened your point.

let's not split hairs here, by approving or disapproving he's acting like a judge, he judged against protege lest the latter endangers reality, and he judged in favor of.....protege being absorbed by the LT.

no, i was aware of that before you presented it to me, here's the link:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=579927&pagenumber=2

smile

wait so daredevils and mighty world of marvel are all non canon?

we really don't know what it signified, since marvel did not have a definition for the omniverse back then, and if they were referring to the infinite universes (which is the multiverse) then why didn't they just use the term multiverse in the first place? instead they used omniverse, which obviously signifies something greater.

also, where was it mentioned in 1992 that the omniverse is specifically, INFINITE multiverses?

to my knowledge, the infinite multiverses came in 2001, mutant x #32:

http://i.imgur.com/TzEl7En.jpg

mutant x annual 2001, even states that there are past, present and future multiverses.

http://i.imgur.com/CVGtgFJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jDNargr.jpg

another important note is that multiverses are apparently references as some sort of timeline (a couple of multiverses ago), x-treme x-men #2 (2012)

http://i.imgur.com/zY3WE9W.jpg

that seems weird tho.

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

let's not split hairs here, by approving or disapproving he's
acting like a judge, he judged against protege lest the latter
endangers reality, and he judged in favor of.....protege being
absorbed by the LT.
Scathan is the "Approver" ... the Living Tribunal is the "Judge"

This isn't hair-splitting, just simple on panel factual truth.
Originally posted by operator616

no, i was aware of that before you presented it to me, here's the link:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=579927&pagenumber=2
Yea, there we go.

You were debating against the LT being "omniversal"
when I posted that What If/LT scan, (mind you I was joking then)
but Now,
you use the same scan you were arguing against to claim there was an "omniverse" back then.

no expression

Anyway ... the hilarity of it, is that in the very same page,
the LT calls the infinite UniverseS of Marvel: "The Multiverse itself"

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16172342_LT.jpg

"I am the supreme judiciary for the Entire Continuum of
UniverseS, the Multiverse itself"


smile ... gotta pay attention my friend.
Originally posted by operator616

wait so daredevils and mighty world of marvel are all non canon?
Originally? yes.
Originally posted by operator616

we really don't know what it signified, since marvel did not have a definition for
the omniverse back then, and if they were referring to the infinite universes (which
is the multiverse) then why didn't they just use the term multiverse in the first place?
instead they used omniverse, which obviously signifies something greater.
Yes we really do know what it signified. An infinite number of alternate universes.

As to why they interchanged the terms, is beyond anyone to know but the editors.
But I have Captain Britain books where sometimes all reality is the Multiverse,
and sometimes the omniverse.
Originally posted by operator616

also, where was it mentioned in 1992 that the omniverse is specifically, INFINITE multiverses?

to my knowledge, the infinite multiverses came in 2001, mutant x #32:

http://i.imgur.com/TzEl7En.jpg
There's at-least two instances prior to that mutant X joint.
(Spiderman mini and Avengers West Coast) I'll have to find them.

But in 1992, the Quasar book confirmed a "Continuum of MultiverseS" outside
all Eternity/Infinity:



Originally posted by operator616

mutant x annual 2001, even states that there are past, present and future multiverses.

http://i.imgur.com/CVGtgFJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jDNargr.jpg
Nah friend. There's Multiverses, then there's Pasts/the Present/Futures withIN them.
Originally posted by operator616

another important note is that multiverses are apparently references as some
sort of timeline (a couple of multiverses ago), x-treme x-men #2 (2012)

http://i.imgur.com/zY3WE9W.jpg

that seems weird tho.
I don't think they meant that. Past and Future Timelines are located withIN a multiverse.

That aside, unless they're talking about multiverses as in "distance,"
example: ten steps away, ten multiverses away ....
unless it's that, I have no idea what that means.

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master

Yea, there we go.

You were debating against the LT being "omniversal"
when I posted that What If/LT scan, (mind you I was joking then)
but Now,
you use the same scan you were arguing against to claim there was an "omniverse" back then.


you can go ahead and quote me when i said that, because if you re-read the debate, i was clearly arguing that LT was not operating on an omniversal scale, i never mentioned that marvel didn't have an omniverse back then......

and you'll have to forgive me that i didn't accept LT stating "by the omniversal constant" as evidence that he was omniversal, because going by that logic, batman can say this sentence as well, does that make him omniversal?

zopzop
Originally posted by operator616
let's not split hairs here, by approving or disapproving he's acting like a judge, he judged against protege lest the latter endangers reality, and he judged in favor of.....protege being absorbed by the LT.

Operator, Scathan merely approved or disapproved of an action and took the appropriate response.

He disapproves of the Protege's manhandling of the court :
http://s23.postimg.org/lu7fjpwxj/1529281_667714_scathan_5_large.jpg

The LT JUDGES the Protege and finds him guilty :
http://s21.postimg.org/gtsivlt2r/Guardians_Of_The_Galaxy50_30.jpg
Scathan has no say in this, in fact it was the LT that ORDERED Scathan to remove the muzzle blinding the Protege so he could witness the LT's judgement.

Only AFTER the LT has made his decision, then Scathan approves of the LT's JUDGEMENT on the Protege :
http://s24.postimg.org/uv4igvekh/1188349_pro10.jpg

In truth this was a kangaroo court, Scathan was NEVER going to disapprove of the LT's judgement because the LT acts on behalf of TOAA.

Mr Master
^^ thumb up
Originally posted by operator616

you can go ahead and quote me when i said that, because if you
re-read the debate, i was clearly arguing that LT was not operating on
an omniversal scale, i never mentioned that marvel didn't have an
omniverse back then......
Right.
I was pointing out how you dismissed that scan (LT's statement) in the other thread,
which included the term "omniverse."
And now you're using the same scan to promote the existence of an "omniverse' pre-SW,
because it includes the term, "omniverse."

Selective debating? (anyway who cares, lets move forward)
Originally posted by operator616

and you'll have to forgive me that i didn't accept LT stating "by
the omniversal constant" as evidence that he was omniversal,
because going by that logic, batman can say this sentence as well,
does that make him omniversal?
The american sense of humor, nice.
... heh, re-visit the thread my friend and you'll notice I never
intended to prove the LT was "omniversal" back then,
I just went there cause you kept trying to add an "upgrade" to the LT,
when the LT has always been the same LT of always.
Whether Marvel is a single Universe, Multiverse or more, the LT is always #2
beneath the power of TOAA, until the 31st century when Protege appears,
but then he gets stomped by Scathan so all is well and the LT is #2 again,
and Scathan can crawl back into the whole he came from.
Until Humans evolve into "Gods" ... then the LT becomes meaningless.

btw. opr616, I think yur doing a great job, I like yur style, this is how we all learn.

operator616
all i said regarding your scan is that it doesn't prove that LT is omniversal since it's a statement coming from his mouth not an actual feat for him.
you're not getting the point.............the scan shows that the omniverse exists but it doesn't show that LT is omniversal, so i am right on both accounts.

and yeah, i still strongly believe that LT was weak when compared to his current status, to give you a wonderful example, this is actually going to be embarrassing for him but you forced my hand:

LT actually fought nebulos, and it was a very tough fight for him:

http://i.imgur.com/KMqitGP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cTkQRjn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tagrr0x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Fwli8v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QrYh8ds.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GGrvBC4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LL1ZukB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ckIxLDK.jpg

yeah, everything LT threw at him, his staff absorbed it, to the point where LT was so helpless that he actually had to blackmail nebulos.

and what really is the most hilarious thing about this fight is this particular page:

http://i.imgur.com/LL1ZukB.jpg

nebulos can protect himself just fine against LT's cosmic bolts yet he is helpless to stop the crumbling cliffs.

also you'll notice that strange helped him defeat nebulos which is also confirmed by the bio:

http://i.imgur.com/MTm0uUg.jpg?1

Nebulos' staff was amped tbh, but it shouldn't even take notice of the current LT, it's nothing compared to him.

i actually did post a scan from this same arc/event in the other thread, i just didn't emphasize on the instance.

compare the above performance ^ to this, fantastic four annual #23

http://i.imgur.com/D6j7in7.jpg

so im going to ask you (or anyone for that matter): d'you actually believe that current LT could pull off such a pathetic performance as he did in those strange tales issues?

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly Mr. M. This isn't even debatable.

The times Scathan gave either the thumbs up or thumbs down gesture, it was straight up stated on panel that "Scathan does not approve!" or "Scathan approves!".

The LT was the Judge, Scathan was there to give the thumbs up/thumbs down to the judgement that was handed down by the LT. And since the LT is a servant of TOAA, he's not gonna come down with a rubbish judgement, hence Scathan approving of what was decided by the LT.
The Living Tribunal also referred to Scathan as his own personal Approver in that comic. The tone in which he made such statements seemed to make Scathan sound pretty special, it appears.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Iron Fist
Wrong. The only right answer is Ben Grimm.

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

all i said regarding your scan is that it doesn't prove that LT is
omniversal since it's a statement coming from his mouth not an
actual feat for him.

you're not getting the point.............the scan shows that the
omniverse exists but it doesn't show that LT is omniversal, so i am
right on both accounts.
Actually I got your point.

It's completely and unequivocally wrong on both accounts.

The scan only shows that the UniverseS of Marvel make up a Multiverse:



"I am the supreme judiciary for the Entire Continuum of UniverseS, the Multiverse itself"

-------------------------------------------------------


I'm guessing you're still not paying attention friend and just throwing scans around,
I was going to let this go, but you've decided to make a discussion of it.

Gruenwald (creator of the term "omniverse"wink wrote the Korvac 'What If' ...
The term was obviously meant in its original context, that is, ALL UniverseS!

Again, and for the last time, The Marvelverse was a single Multiverse up until Nov. 1986.

You have an issue with that fact, email Marvel and complain.
Originally posted by operator616

and yeah, i still strongly believe that LT was weak when compared to his current
status, to give you a wonderful example, this is actually going to be embarrassing
for him but you forced my hand:

LT actually fought nebulos, and it was a very tough fight for him:

http://i.imgur.com/KMqitGP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cTkQRjn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tagrr0x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Fwli8v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QrYh8ds.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GGrvBC4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LL1ZukB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ckIxLDK.jpg

yeah, everything LT threw at him, his staff absorbed it, to the point where LT was so
helpless that he actually had to blackmail nebulos.
what really is the most hilarious thing about this fight is this particular page:
nebulos can protect himself just fine against LT's cosmic bolts yet he is helpless to
stop the crumbling cliffs.
also you'll notice that strange helped him defeat nebulos which is also confirmed by the bio:
Nebulos' staff was amped tbh, but it shouldn't even take notice of the current LT, it's
nothing compared to him.

compare the above performance ^ to this, fantastic four annual #23
http://i.imgur.com/D6j7in7.jpg
facepalm ...

... "forced your hand?" lol

Anyway, way ta go on comparing a story from 1967 with another from 1990. (23 Years apart)
Yea, I "forced your hand" to reach to the moon with this comedy.
Dude, the writing Pre-83' was geared solely towards kids.

That aside, your Nebulos account is off.

Nebulos was running from the LT like a b*tch.
Nebulos never affected the LT in any way.
Nebulos was in awe of the LT's power.

But this OLD ass story is so OLD! cheesy and PISSY ...

... that Nebulos can absorb the LT's bolts, but can't stop a crumbling cliff?

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16177486_Nebu1.jpg

laughing out loud

Anyway, Dr Strange didn't save the LT, and the LT didn't need him at all,
in fact, the LT stated so. It was Dr Strange on his own who decided to interfere.
Originally posted by operator616

so im going to ask you (or anyone for that matter): d'you actually believe that
current LT could pull off such a pathetic performance as he did in those strange
tales issues?
What yur trying to connect here isn't going to work, like ever.

But to answer yur inquiry. Absolutely, just look at Last Planet Standing,
where the LT needed to combine his power with several Cosmics just to eliminate
an Alternate Galactus.
Reed was also able to use Plot against the LT/Cosmics which is more laughable still.
Do I take this horseshit into consideration? Of course not cause it's senseless PIS.

Our job as forum debaters is to filter the nonsense, connect the reasonable dots,
and arrive at a sensible conclusion.

operator616
^
actually, no, you didn't get my point at all, im not arguing the definition of the omniverse right now (because there is no direct definition for it, and when there's no evidence, i don't argue)

let me give you an example:

here, strange mentions the terms 'metaverse' in his statement (new mutants v3 #44)

http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1

can this particular scan be used to prove that marvel has a meta-verse? yes it can.

can this same scan be used to prove that strange has meta-versal power levels? no it cannot.

same thing with the what if scan, can it be used to prove that marvel has an omniverse? yes it can.

can it be used to prove that LT is omniversal? no it cannot.

so can you point out how is this exactly selective debating?

to sum up your counterargument:

1. posting a facepalm
2. lol
3. saying that pre-83 stories are for kids (though i find it funny that it coincides as being the year right before secret wars)

and yeah, you actually did force my hand, because i tried to avoid posting that pathetic showing for LT but seeing how you continue to claim that current LT is the same LT as he's always been (which includes 1967), i decided to include that. and i have more, but looking at your counterargument, think i'll pass.

i actually did foresee you bringing up the last planet standing showing for him, but if you look at it, it really doesnt even compare:

galactus was a confirmed multiversal threat in that arc, and vanquishing him would result in galaxy-level collateral damage

http://i.imgur.com/Xd2hUqN.jpg

while here, the battle between LT and nebulos was destroying mountains for god's sake:

http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg

how is this even remotely comparable? not to mention that we also see an alternate version of reed capable of conquering the omniverse (evidence already provided in another thread)


btw, regarding this statement

'way ta go on comparing a story from 1967 with another from 1990. (23 Years apart)'

are you for real with this? are you comprehending what i'm saying? my ENTIRE ARGUMENT is based on comparing LT's earlier showings with his later showings, and then you go on and post this?........................

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616
^
actually, no, you didn't get my point at all, im not arguing the definition of the
omniverse right now (because there is no direct definition for it, and when there's
no evidence, i don't argue)
let me give you an example:
here, strange mentions the terms 'metaverse' in his statement (new mutants v3 #44)
http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1
can this particular scan be used to prove that marvel has a meta-verse? yes it can.
can this same scan be used to prove that strange has meta-versal power levels? no it cannot.
same thing with the what if scan, can it be used to prove that marvel has an
omniverse? yes it can.
can it be used to prove that LT is omniversal? no it cannot.
so can you point out how is this exactly selective debating?
to sum up your counterargument:
1. posting a facepalm
2. lol
3. saying that pre-83 stories are for kids (though i find it funny that it coincides as
being the year right before secret wars)
and yeah, you actually did force my hand, because i tried to avoid posting that
pathetic showing for LT but seeing how you continue to claim that current LT is the
same LT as he's always been (which includes 1967), i decided to include that. and
i have more, but looking at your counterargument, think i'll pass.
i actually did foresee you bringing up the last planet standing showing for him, but if
you look at it, it really doesnt even compare:
galactus was a confirmed multiversal threat in that arc, and vanquishing him would
result in galaxy-level collateral damage
http://i.imgur.com/Xd2hUqN.jpg
while here, the battle between LT and nebulos was destroying mountains for god's sake:
http://i.imgur.com/TLXxcuu.jpg
how is this even remotely comparable? not to mention that we also see an
alternate version of reed capable of conquering the omniverse (evidence already
provided in another thread)
Goodness friend you went on a rant and lost yourself.

Relax, then come back. Right now you're all over the place.
Your Strange example is meaningless since Strange isn't and never has been
the most powerful entity/being in even just the Universe,
nor has he ever been "Judge" of All Realities!

While the Living Tribunal Always has been! of the freakin Multiverse in fact
and anything else that the Marvelverse contains. Save only for TOAA.

So if the LT were to suggest the existence of an Omniverse, and an Omniverse is simply All Realities!
Then gosh-darnit it would make perfect sense that the LT is, well ... "omniversal?"

What the hell does a statement from Dr Strange have to with a statement from the likes of the LT?

Also, I don't care what hyperbole was stated about that alternate Galactus,
the LT should not need help to off any Galactus.

... friend ... please.
Originally posted by operator616

btw, regarding this statement
'way ta go on comparing a story from 1967 with another from 1990. (23 Years apart)'
are you for real with this? are you comprehending what i'm saying? my ENTIRE
ARGUMENT is based on comparing LT's earlier showings with his later showings,
and then you go on and post this?........................
Yea. The stupidity of that encounter is due to being a victim of time.
In any case, I was addressing the story itself, the way the battle was written,
it was just dumb, because it's so old. There are stories from the 70's that were good
and afterwards so I was being vicious when I said they were all for kids.
But what you don't realize, is that it doesn't take away from the fact that the LT was still #1,
or #2 if we count TOAA.

The LT, or anyone else for that matter performing super feats was seldom back then,
it has nothing to do with the LT's status/power withIn the Marvel Universe,
its just that destroying a universe was a big deal then, heck even a galaxy,
but through the years stories have allowed for powerful characters to truly exhibit their abilities.
In Marvel, that crescendo came in the form of the Beyonder.
Secret Wars basically blew up comics for Marvel
the way Clinton's schlong blew up Lewinsky's career.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.