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The fact is Nihilus is stronger in the Force at this point, his connection won't stay as strong for as long, but it is indeed stronger.

Nihilus has no Force Bond with Visas Marr.

Nihilus.

What are you even basing this on? Nothing suggests Nihilus is stronger than Vitiate. There's also nothing suggesting that either one of these are going to do anything to the other

Originally posted by jadams3928
What are you even basing this on? Nothing suggests Nihilus is stronger than Vitiate. There's also nothing suggesting that either one of these are going to do anything to the other

Nihilus already had a stronger connection. This is what Malachor V did to him. He survived the effects of the Mass Shadow Generator by instinctually feeding off of his Jedi companions, but the way it was used was so unnatural that it gave him greater preternatural empathy towards the dark side than the Half-Sith Vitiate despite his gaudy displays of power at an early age.

I'm basing it off of the fact that Vitiate didn't even drain an army of Jedi along with Nathema's populace, and he had the aid of eight thousand Sith Lords. This took him months. Nihilus probably did this to Katarr in hours, without any help at all.

According to Unseen, Unheard he did it either in an hour or with a single word. Or both.

Perhaps it was a really long word? mmm

Or maybe it takes about an hour to drain a whole planet? We do see people running away and shit so the cloud isn't like, lightspeed and drains the planet in the space of a single word.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or maybe it takes about an hour to drain a whole planet? We do see people running away and shit so the cloud isn't like, lightspeed and drains the planet in the space of a single word.

Pretty sure Visas says "when my lord spoke everything died muthafukkas," or something to that effect. That would preclude an hour.

Pretty sure that's hyperbole? Also, LOL@stronger connection to the force. Dolos, you're a crazy mofo.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Pretty sure that's hyperbole?

Personally, I think the comic is unreliable as hell, but that's just moi.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Dolos, you're a crazy mofo.

You may dispense with the pleasantries, jadams.

I'm sorry, but making outrageous claims warrants these kind of rebuttals.

Ooooh, I'm aflaid I am quite awaare of the state in which my sanity has declineeed...

Originally posted by Dolos
Nihilus already had a stronger connection. This is what Malachor V did to him. He survived the effects of the Mass Shadow Generator by instinctually feeding off of his Jedi companions,

The use of the word "Companion" here, is incorrect.

Nihilus wasn't a Jedi, and likely just an average person of some sort.

But yes, surviving the destruction of the Mass Shadow Generator indeed turned him into maelstrom-wormhole of Dark side energy.


Originally posted by Dolos

but the way it was used was so unnatural that it gave him greater preternatural empathy towards the dark side than the Half-Sith Vitiate despite his gaudy displays of power at an early age.

It doesn't have anything to do with empathy - Nihilus is not a Force-sensitive Human with MidiChlorians in his blood that determine his feed to the Force.

Nihilus is the walking energetic-embodiment of a black hole in the Force - a maelstrom of Dark side energy that simply feeds, and uses it's own power - and the power of worlds to destroy.


Originally posted by Dolos

I'm basing it off of the fact that Vitiate didn't even drain an army of Jedi along with Nathema's populace, and he had the aid of eight thousand Sith Lords. This took him months.

Yup.



Originally posted by Dolos

Nihilus probably did this to Katarr in hours,

Seconds. The few panels indicate it was done within a few moments amount of time; upon utterance.

Kreia's weaker version also takes seconds.


Originally posted by Dolos

without any help at all.

Yup. He simply speaks.

Originally posted by jadams3928
What are you even basing this on? Nothing suggests Nihilus is stronger than Vitiate. There's also nothing suggesting that either one of these are going to do anything to the other


Nihilus: -

Drain: Killing entire Planets full of people in seconds, with a single utterance.

Telekinesis: Ripping a gigantic Warship out of the grasp of a Planetary Gravity-Well.

Force Durability: Tanking a blast that ripped a Planet into pieces.


And where does Vitiate stack in relation to this?

Vitiate needed the help of thousands of other Sith Lords to drain a populace, after a lengthy ritual.

His Force TK ability is far weaker than Nihilus as well.

And last I checked, Vitiate couldn't tank the destruction of a world.

- Vitiate is far weaker than Nihilus.

Nihilus wins.

He didn't "tank" Malachor's destruction, he survived it along with thousands of others. That is not a feat. Though he did just sever the Force from Kreia, and dispatched or mind ****ed any opponent he pleased with his voice alone.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Nihilus: -

Drain: Killing entire Planets full of people in seconds, with a single utterance.

Telekinesis: Ripping a gigantic Warship out of the grasp of a Planetary Gravity-Well.

Force Durability: Tanking a blast that ripped a Planet into pieces.


And where does Vitiate stack in relation to this?

Vitiate needed the help of thousands of other Sith Lords to drain a populace, after a lengthy ritual.

His Force TK ability is far weaker than Nihilus as well.

And last I checked, Vitiate couldn't tank the destruction of a world.

- Vitiate is far weaker than Nihilus.

Vitiate needs no help from anybody. He mindrapes anybody he wants, and what he did was far more impressive than what Nihilus did. There's nothing Nihilus can do to him.

Originally posted by Dolos
He didn't "tank" Malachor's destruction, he survived it along with thousands of others.

There were disabled ships around the planet.

- And, the Mass Shadow Generator cracked the planet into pieces - no Human could survive the type of force needed to rip a planet apart.

If the Earth experienced forces powerful enough to rip it into two or three floating pieces - no living thing standing on the surface would survive.

Nihilus survived because of what he turned into, and there were disabled ships around the planet, with survivors, that weren't killed when the planet was ripped apart, because they were in orbit, in ships.

He did tank Malachors's destruction and he was only one to do so.

Keep in mind he did take several functioning ships with him, when he left the dead world - and those ships had survivors in them, before he drained some of them.


Originally posted by Dolos

That is not a feat.
So yes, it is a feat.

He was the only survivor on the planet.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Vitiate needs no help from anybody. He mindrapes anybody he wants, and what he did was far more impressive than what Nihilus did. There's nothing Nihilus can do to him.

Incorrect.

The only thing immune from Nihilus's drain, Canonically, is a Force Wound.

So Vitiate dies.

Well, what Vitiate did on Nathema was greater than what Palps did on Byss, and at the same time it didn't make him dependant on it.

The difference between the three is the nature of their technique.

Sidious experimented on Byss' population and slowly fed off their vitality to sustain himself.

Vitiate safely consumed the inhabitants of Nathema, ritualistically sacrificing them for his own immortality.

Nihilus totally absorbed their all of their energy at once. Giving him far greater power and ultimately increasing his hunger and making him more dependant on Force sensitive worlds.

Originally posted by Dolos
Well, what Vitiate did on Nathema was greater than what Palps did on Byss, and at the same time it didn't make him dependant on it.

The difference between the three is the nature of their technique.

Sidious experimented on Byss' population and slowly fed off their vitality to sustain himself.

Vitiate safely consumed the inhabitants of Nathema, ritualistically sacrificing them for his own immortality.

Nihilus totally absorbed their all of their energy at once. Giving him far greater power and ultimately increasing his hunger and making him more dependant on Force sensitive worlds.

Duh.

And Nihilus rapes Vitiate here.

Also, I'm getting the feeling English isn't your first language?

Please amuse us showing a source that says this. If you want to reach, Nihilus' technique came from the ancient sith, And Vitiate was the most powerful of the ancient sith Sorry

Originally posted by jadams3928
Please amuse us showing a source that says this. If you want to reach, Nihilus' technique came from the ancient sith, And Vitiate was the most powerful of the ancient sith Sorry

If you truly knew anything about what you spoke - you would know that Nihilus's technique could not be taught - only experienced.

And humor me, by proving you've actually played KotoR II - it does imply that the only immunity is a Force Wound.

Show me where - so you can prove to me that I'm not debating with a Noob.

My time is valuable.

I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a while.

Originally posted by Rookwood
And humor me, by proving you've actually played KotoR II - it does imply that the only immunity is a Force Wound.

Also, you can be immune by sharing bond or by being badass Mandalor.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, you can be immune by sharing bond or by being badass Mandalor.

*Feeds him a treat* You are so cute.

I would put a collar on you, with a fancy emblem bearing your name, and the phone number I could be reached at, in case you were lost.

You're right, I haven't beaten KOTOR II far longer than your you've been able to drive. I appreciate you educating your elders on something you don't understand, but let me try. Kreia also says its an invention of the ancient sith. Missed that one huh?


Clearly not, as you're not making any sense.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Kreia also says its an invention of the ancient sith. When was this? I haven't played the game in about six or seven years and can't recall.

Kreia says 'It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves'. Not sure if she specifically says its from them though. Avellone says that its a technique known to the Ancient Sith in an interview. He does stress that what he's saying isn't canon though, whether that extends to that though is ambiguous.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He does stress that what he's saying isn't canon though

wat? lol

That quote says the ancient sith never used it, lol.

But then Avellone is a buttclown.

Indeed, the implication is that they did know about it though. Its been speculated to be the basis for stuff like Vitiates ritual, Ragnos' staff and the Dark Reaper that do similar things with draining the Force but are safer.

Originally posted by jadams3928
You're right, I haven't beaten KOTOR II far longer than your you've been able to drive. I appreciate you educating your elders on something you don't understand, but let me try.

Hahahaha. Boy, I'm your Elder.

When I was driving for the first time, they were cutting the umbilical cord off of you.

And nice try at trying to educate your elders on something you're pulling out of your ass.


Originally posted by jadams3928

Kreia also says its an invention of the ancient sith. Missed that one huh?

I sure hope you aren't just trying to pull that out of your ass, you got a picture to back up your claim?

'Cause the only one whose missed anything here, is you, Sonny.

Originally posted by jadams3928

Clearly not, as you're not making any sense.
Pull your head out of your ass - you'll see better.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Please amuse us showing a source that says this. If you want to reach, Nihilus' technique came from the ancient sith, And Vitiate was the most powerful of the ancient sith Sorry

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/NihilusTruth_zps995e29fc.jpg

I am debating with a Noob, aren't I?

Originally posted by jadams3928
Whoops, looks like some jackass missed this post. Oh I love the new fish.

Don't you think it's unfair to call yourself a jackass, just because you forgot that you posed some Non-Canon stuff?

And I like your fishy taste - just how I like pussy, tasting just like tuna.


What was it you said, that you were in Primary School, when playing KotoR II last time, and never got to finish?

I'll let you go finish now. You put down the baby-bottle and actually play that game, and maybe you'll be a challenge for me.

But I did like the Non-Canon stuff; it was funny.

I feel bad for Vitiate though - he can't beat a guy who solely tanked a planet being ripped into pieces and and uses a technique that is unblockable to all, but other Force Wounds.

I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that the ancient Sith knew of Nihilus's technique. Not only does Avellone confirm it backhandedly (though I agree that his words alone wouldn't necessarily amount to a proverbial hill of beans), Kreia says it in the game. Finally, the construction of weapons like the Dark Reaper justify it: the Sith, fearing that prolonged use of the technique would begin to destroy their personalities, forged technology capable of unleashing such power.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that the ancient Sith knew of Nihilus's technique. Not only does Avellone confirm it backhandedly (though I agree that his words alone wouldn't necessarily amount to a proverbial hill of beans), Kreia says it in the game. Finally, the construction of weapons like the Dark Reaper justify it: the Sith, fearing that prolonged use of the technique would begin to destroy their personalities, forged technology capable of unleashing such power.

The quote does give way to some nice theories.

It was probably a technique associated with the Sith, of course. But they couldn't teach it.

My little Retarded friend who hasn't played the game yet, didn't even know that.

The game, to my knowledge, never actually says that it can't be taught. The fact that Nihilus is alleged to possess this ability by way of the catastrophe at Malachor V does not preclude the possibility that it can be conferred to a Force adept through training.

If I recall correctly, Kreia also says that the Sith assassins in service to Nihilus and Sion use a lesser version of the same technique; the KotOR campaign guide explains that Kreia instructed Nihilus in the ways to harness his powers to "radical new heights" etc.

This very strongly suggests that it can, in fact, be taught.

Well that'll do it.

Although really - this debate has nothing to do with whether it's associated with the Sith or not.

I already know it is, and am not disputing this fact - I only pointed out that my little buddy JAdams was implying that because he thought Vitiate was the most powerful ancient Sith, that somehow he knew Nihilus's technique.

But because Nihilus's technique springs from a state of being and cannot be taught, Vitiate obviously didn't know or possess it.

That's what the little Retard and I were arguing about.

So duh, it was associated with the ancient Sith; that's retardedly obvious.

But none of that means Vitiate had it - so he's screwed.

Nihilus rapes him, here.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Although really - this debate has nothing to do with whether it's associated with the Sith or not.

I already know it is, and am not disputing this fact - I only pointed out that my little buddy JAdams was implying that because he thought Vitiate was the most powerful ancient Sith, that somehow he knew Nihilus's technique.

But because Nihilus's technique springs from a state of being and cannot be taught, Vitiate obviously didn't know or possess it.

That's what the little Retard and I were arguing about.

So duh, it was associated with the ancient Sith; that's retardedly obvious.

But none of that means Vitiate had it - so he's screwed.

Nihilus rapes him, here.

Poor, pitiful teenager. He plays KOTOR II and thinks he's ready to debate on this forum. It's adorable! He loves mentioning that kreia claims that it cannot be taught, yet in the same game, claims the ancient sith created it but refused to use it. This isn't so much a debate as it is a slaughter.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Poor, pitiful teenager. He plays KOTOR II and thinks he's ready to debate on this forum. It's adorable! He loves mentioning that kreia claims that it cannot be taught, yet in the same game, claims the ancient sith created it but refused to use it. This isn't so much a debate as it is a slaughter.

Maybe you're angry because you're the teenager and wish you were older, like me.

Kreia never said the ancient Sith created it, nor refused to use it, Noob.

You've never really played the game, have you?


Nihilus's Hunger is a Condition - there are Sith afflicted with it, so it has never been refused by them - however, it was never stated to have been created by them, as well.

Nihilus's Condition cannot be taught - and Vitiate who is not a Force Wound like Nihilus - is screwed here.

Nihilus wins.

Nice try though, my pathetically moronic friend.

Arguing against what actually happened in the game? Too easy

http://bucultureshock.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/owned9wz.jpg

Originally posted by jadams3928
Arguing against what actually happened in the game? Too easy


Are you resorting to gibberish because you're losing?

So now that you know Vitiate doesn't have Nihilus's technique; isn't a Force Wound.

Do you think Vitiate would die trying to stop Nihilus, or would he get down on his knees and attempt to give Nihilus a good old-fashioned blow job to appease him?

I think kicking the ass of a simple minded teenager isn't much of an accomplishment.

Originally posted by jadams3928
I think kicking the ass of a simple minded teenager isn't much of an accomplishment.

You can't kick my ass if I have my dick in yours.

Your rectum is being destroyed, and you can't think of even one way Vitiate could stop Nihilus.

Weak Sauce.

Anyway, Planet-level-Durability, World-Draining, Warship-toting Nihilus wins this.

Vitiate is sucked dry of all his tender Force-flesh, and left on the floor a lifeless, rotting carcass.

And Nihilus has a nice snack.

Nihilus wins.

Yea, in a homosexual teenager's dreamland

Hahahahahahaha.

So how about it? Does Vitiate give Nihilus a good blowjob - or does he just beg?

Originally posted by jadams3928
Yea, in a homosexual teenager's dreamland
Wait, you're a homosexual teenager. So are you agreeing with me about Nihilus rape-murdering Vitiate?

I know you are..

Originally posted by jadams3928
I do agree with you that Vitiate loses, because I can't prove any other way. And I dream about your gigantic member, swaying in the breeze..

I need to lick it..

Oh well, now this is what I'm talking about.

You've got a lot to learn - but you're well on your way, Kid.

Much like your pink virgin-throat, Vitiate's soul would be violently sodomized by Nihilus's drain.

But at least there's some enjoyment to be gotten out of that.

Ladies and gentlemen, the embarrassment that is the current KMC.

Yeah, seeing a couple of illiterate retards mewling like children over a videogame is pretty pathetic.

these insults aren't even amusing. reported for unfunny homophobia

(also, can one even sodomize a throat? I feel like that's not the right usage of the word)

Reported for being intolerant of these douches beliefs. They can be as homophobic as they want you ****ING NAZI.

Originally posted by Rookwood


Much like your pink virgin-throat, Vitiate's soul would be violently sodomized by Nihilus's drain.

laughcry

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah, seeing a couple of illiterate retards mewling like children over a videogame is pretty pathetic.

Which video game are you guys mewling over?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah, seeing a couple of illiterate retards mewling like children over a videogame is pretty pathetic.
Oh, you were referring to me.
Well, you're normally an illiterate Retard, so I'm sure you would want to seek the company of others of your kind.

Jadams is perfect, in that case.

As your intellectual superior, I'm not - but hey, you can still play pretend.

Isn't that what you Retards do best?

I think us senior members here enjoy the level of stupidity and antisocial behavior from this little social outcast. Look, we realize you can't get friends in real life and have to spend every waking second on here, but it's not healthy for you. It's also not healthy to get your ass kicked in your real life, only to come online and get your ass kicked there.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Oh, you were referring to me.
Well, you're normally an illiterate Retard, so I'm sure you would want to seek the company of others of your kind.

Jadams is perfect, in that case.

As your intellectual superior, I'm not - but hey, you can still play pretend.

Isn't that what you Retards do best? It's funny, because I actually agree with some of the content in your posts, but you deliver that content like a 12 year old boy, frustrated that his sister won't show him her private parts when he shows her his.

And please don't think to condescend to me you stupid manchild, in all ways, I am your better.

Originally posted by jadams3928
I think us senior members here enjoy the level of stupidity and antisocial behavior from this little social outcast. Look, we realize you can't get friends in real life and have to spend every waking second on here, but it's not healthy for you. It's also not healthy to get your ass kicked in your real life, only to come online and get your ass kicked there.

I **** asses in real life, just like I **** your ass here, Little One.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's funny, because I actually agree with some of the content in your posts, but you deliver that content like a 12 year old boy, frustrated that his sister won't show him her private parts when he shows her his.

And please don't think to condescend to me you stupid manchild, in all ways, I am your better.

Hahahahaha. What makes you think I have to show my private parts, first?

You know, I used to think some of your posts were agreeable - until you opened your mouth and sounded like ares834.

In the past you've shored up good support for Darth Nihilus in debates, so I'll give you another chance to repent of that momentary Retardation you experienced.

In such moments, I am greatly superior to you.

But when you refrain from such mongoloid thoughts, then we become equals.

Repent of the Retardation. And you shall be a shining light to the forum once more.

Originally posted by Rookwood
You know, I used to think some of your posts were agreeable - until you opened your mouth and sounded like ares834.

Interesting. So now you find that all his posts are agreeable and he is a reasonable debater who uses facts to support his arguments rather than petty insults.

Originally posted by ares834
Interesting. So now you find that all his posts are agreeable and he is a reasonable debater who uses facts to support his arguments rather than petty insults.

No, no, I was making a casual reference to your mild cerebral-palsy.

Edit: Dang, that was a fast edit on you're part.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, let's continue to shift the argument to make my blunder my disappear.

lol, still butt-hurt over that?

Originally posted by ares834
lol, still butt-hurt over that?

Apparently you are.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I **** asses in real life, just like I **** your ass here, Little One.



Yup. you're definitely the class clown who gets ass kicked on a regular basis. It's ok tiger, let out your frustration on here. This forum hasn't been this entertaining for years.

As far as anyone knows, was the cabal of Sith assassins in employ to Nihilus & Sion present at the Battle of Malachor V or exposed by it?

If not, I may be persuaded to disregard Kreia's words on the matter; Plagueis remarks similarly in his titular novel that, in order for a Sith Lord to use Sith lightning, he or she must be on the receiving end of it as a means of "taking in" the energy.

One of the more stupid passages in the book.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As far as anyone knows, was the cabal of Sith assassins in employ to Nihilus & Sion present at the Battle of Malachor V or exposed by it?

If not, I may be persuaded to disregard Kreia's words on the matter; Plagueis remarks similarly in his titular novel that, in order for a Sith Lord to use Sith lightning, he or she must be on the receiving end of it as a means of "taking in" the energy.

One of the more stupid passages in the book. The quote says one has to experience it first hand, it is entirely possible that Nihilus "teaches" it to them by using it on them and making them his bitches.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The quote says one has to experience it first hand, it is entirely possible that Nihilus "teaches" it to them by using it on them and making them his bitches.

She also says one can gain it through instinct, apparently. Of course, it was Kreia who trained Nihilus to harness the power to begin with. But this was prior to Nihilus using it against her.

Conundrums, conundrums.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Yup. you're definitely the class clown who gets ass kicked on a regular basis. It's ok tiger, let out your frustration on here. This forum hasn't been this entertaining for years.
I grew up, taking asses left and right, filling them with my sweet jelly - as I have yours on here.

All this talk of asses is making me horny..

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As far as anyone knows, was the cabal of Sith assassins in employ to Nihilus & Sion present at the Battle of Malachor V or exposed by it?

If not, I may be persuaded to disregard Kreia's words on the matter; Plagueis remarks similarly in his titular novel that, in order for a Sith Lord to use Sith lightning, he or she must be on the receiving end of it as a means of "taking in" the energy.

One of the more stupid passages in the book.

Living on Malachor V, after the MSG was used to hold the planet back together, may have been what caused those Sith to gain a very weak version of that power.

They lived among ruins and echoes of death afterward.

And within that place of death in the Force - the same place that cut Surik off, and spawned the black-hole maelstrom of Dark side energy that was Nihilus - experiencing the after-effects in that very same place, would have given the Sith Assassin's that weak version of that ability.

Perhaps. The concept sounds like a load of hooey, but whatevz.

Does anyone know if Vitiate can conceal his presence in the Force?

Like how Jessiah is trying to act like he's interested in the on-topic and not all the homosex post.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Like how Jessiah is trying to act like he's interested in the on-topic and not all the homosex post.

And what is Jessiah a reference from?

The topic is very interesting to me.

I'm just having fun.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Like how Jessiah is trying to act like he's interested in the on-topic and not all the homosex post.

Why can't I be interested in both, foo'?

Ok, time to dispell some myths.

This quote dismisses Nihilus' ability to consume planets as a rumor:
"Darth Nihilus was known as the Lord of Hunger and was known for his ability to literally consume the Force energy of his victims, which was known to sustain his own life energies. It was rumored that he could consume the Force energy of an entire planet." - Complete Encyclopedia, Nihilus, Darth

The same source makes it apparent that Nihilus used some sort of superweapon to obliterate planets or simply used old fashioned orbit bombardment:
"In the meantime, Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin".

For one thing Force drain cannot be used to "blast" things "into ruin", it is not a destructive power, it just sucks Force out of living beings leaving non-living objects completely in tact. Even in comics we see buildings being destroyed and surface ravaged. Either it was some weapon or a ritual-based Force power similar to Force Storm but not Force drain.


Nowhere it is canonically evidenced. The only time we ever see Nihilus using Force drain is on Meetra and the very same time he fails. And absolutely nowhere it says that she is immune because she is Force wound. Most people made logical conclusion that she resisted because she is wound, however, there is no proof that it was the case.

Moreover, within the same game there is proof that Exile is not immune to drain. Kreia uses her supposed to be "lesser" Force drain on her on Dantooine in one of the story branches and it works fine.


This quote cannot be used as proof that it cannot be taught.
Plagueis said pretty much the same thing about lightning:
"In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself."
Numerous evidence shows that Plagueis' statement is wrong and that's why these kind of claims about techniques cannot be relied on.

Moreover, we have Krayt, who discovered Nihilus' holocron and learned this ability.


You can't know it. Do you even realize that Force wound is just a phylosophical interpretation given by in-universe characters? No outside source whatsoever states Exile or Nihilus to be Force wound.

Vitiate experienced far larger Force disturbance, which resulted from his ritual. So, if Force wound thing is real, Vitiate supposed to be one of the most potent ones.

I've discovered Ahrael to have some..special..tendencies, that would normally lead me to consider him as, "slow", in most circles.

But he's too damn likable. He's like Forrest Gump that way.

He may be a Mongoloid - but he's got a heart of gold.

Look at this retard go.

Originally posted by Arhael
Ok, time to dispell some myths.

This quote dismisses Nihilus' ability to consume planets as a rumor:
"Darth Nihilus was known as the Lord of Hunger and was known for his ability to literally consume the Force energy of his victims, which was known to sustain his own life energies. It was rumored that he could consume the Force energy of an entire planet." - Complete Encyclopedia, Nihilus, Darth

The same source makes it apparent that Nihilus used some sort of superweapon to obliterate planets or simply used old fashioned orbit bombardment:
"In the meantime, Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin".

Intriguing...

Still not comparable to Vitiate.

...What?

Originally posted by jadams3928
Look at this retard go.
He's a higher-grade Retard than you, too.

You're Retard v0.1 - and he's Retard v0.9

You still live in your mommy's bed - and in contrast, Ahrael, though slow, has
his own apartment - with assisted-living from a non-profit group.

But that's a big step up, from suckling your mother's breast.

Ladies & gents, if we must jab and mock, let us do so in conjunction with an argument.

Otherwise it's just trolling and a complete waste of time.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Intriguing...

Yeah, Katarr pretty much demonstrated what he was capable of.

No, what's intriguing is the argument Arhael provided from the encyclopedia.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, what's intriguing is the argument Arhael provided from the encyclopedia.

I looked into it; it would seem that from the wording, Nihilus's ships would follow Nihilus, as he stood aboard the Ravager, feeding off of worlds.


Early on in another debate, we examined the ruins of Katarr, as a possibility that Nihilus's technique may have had other destructive effects.

Then, I believe, Lord_Lucien, offered the suggestion that with every world that Nihilus drained to death, almost instantaneously, that world's machines and vehicles would break down and crash without their living operators - resulting in added destruction and ruin.

So it was all Nihilus, and his fleet was just along for the ride (No pun intended)

(Remember, he uses the Force to drag them around )

Originally posted by Rookwood
I looked into it; it would seem that from the wording, Nihilus's ships would follow Nihilus, as he stood aboard the Ravager, feeding off of worlds.


Early on in another debate, we examined the ruins of Katarr, as a possibility that Nihilus's technique may have had other destructive effects.

Then, I believe, Lord_Lucien, offered the suggestion that with every world that Nihilus drained to death, almost instantaneously, that world's machines and vehicles would break down and crash without their living operators - resulting in added destruction and ruin.

So it was all Nihilus, and his fleet was just along for the ride (No pun intended)

(Remember, he uses the Force to drag them around )

Perhaps, but I'm curious to see what Arhael has to say on the matter.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter anyway.

Nihilus's attack is unblockable and his durability is Planet-Level.

The only way Vitiate would have a chance, is if he attacked Nihilus with a fleet of ships, at an extreme distance.

Otherwise, he's easily dead, here. There's nothing he can do.

I doubt his durability was "planet-level" if he fell in combat to a Jedi and Mandalorian.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I doubt his durability was "planet-level" if he fell in combat to a Jedi and Mandalorian.

Remember that when Nihilus fed on the black hole that was Meetra Surik - all of his massively cosmic-level Force reserves were exhausted onto her.

Beforehand, the Nihilus that held the collective Force energy of entire worlds, was said by Visas to be on a scale so great that he viewed things in terms of planets and stars and that he was too monstrously powerful to be fought in combat.

And indeed, if you attempt to fight him before having the Exile drain him; he slaughters your team easily.

Afterward though, when Nihilus had been drained - was only with a minute fraction of his original power - and was only the sum of a suit of armor and robes.

Then, he could be destroyed conventionally.

Other than that, he holds within him enough Force power to survive a planet being ripped into pieces.

I do remember that Nihilus was, to borrow the KotOR Campaign Guide's words, "psychically starved." I do not understand what bearing that has on his durability. If what you say is true, it should have been independent of the effort, considering he survived Malachor V as a "man" and prior to his Sith training.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I do remember that Nihilus was, to borrow the KotOR Campaign Guide's words, "psychically starved." I do not understand what bearing that has on his durability. If what you say is true, it should have been independent of the effort, considering he survived Malachor V as a "man" and prior to his Sith training.

He was starved already when approaching Telos.

When he fed upon the Exile, he ended up exhausting nearly all of his energy - rendering him not much more than an animated suit of armor and robes.

- But back when Malachor V was ripped apart and everyone on it died - in that instant, his pain and anguish at the deafening destruction, warped his being into a Wound in the Force - and becoming that Wound, to begin with, fed him instantly with enough power to tank the blast.

In other words, as the destruction occurred, he became a hole - and all of that death, just sucked right into him.

Originally posted by Arhael
This quote dismisses Nihilus' ability to consume planets as a rumor:
"Darth Nihilus was known as the Lord of Hunger and was known for his ability to literally consume the Force energy of his victims, which was known to sustain his own life energies. It was rumored that he could consume the Force energy of an entire planet." - Complete Encyclopedia, Nihilus, Darth

Nowhere does it explicitly note "This is bullshit and only a rumor", both Visas and Unseen Unheard confirm that Nihilus is capable of it. Kreia does as well.



Only Nihilus's planetary consumption has physical after-effects, as we've seen.

Stop arguing against what we plainly see.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As far as anyone knows, was the cabal of Sith assassins in employ to Nihilus & Sion present at the Battle of Malachor V or exposed by it?

If not, I may be persuaded to disregard Kreia's words on the matter; Plagueis remarks similarly in his titular novel that, in order for a Sith Lord to use Sith lightning, he or she must be on the receiving end of it as a means of "taking in" the energy.

One of the more stupid passages in the book.

Exposed to it most likely. The Jedi Masters say that Malachor V is a 'crucible' that teaches them to consume and kill. Basically I imagine they go through the same experience as the Exile did when they feel the Wound on Malachor V and walk on its surface and are transformed like she was.

It's crazy to think that Darth Nihilus really is the most powerful Sith Lord that ever existed.

But as he was not technically a living being, and was not known to history or the Galaxy, afterwards - he cannot be recognized formally as the most powerful Sith Lord.

But Palpatine, especially since he's alive and organic, is the next best thing, and can.

Except after he dies. :I

Well he does "expire" but it's almost like the Dark energies that made him up were just dissipating back into the void.

As an entity that does not breathe, sleep, has no blood, no organs, no brain and cannot naturally reproduce, by textbook definition he's not technically alive.

Palpatine may have been the most powerful Sith Lord ever to live - but Nihilus is the more powerful Sith Lord than him, no matter what version he is.

- The really cool thing is that Nihilus didn't drain Kreia's connections to the Force the whole way - if he had chose to do that, he would have killed her.

But draining them nearly the whole way merely cut her off of the Force temporarily, giving her the inspiration to recognize it's futility and want to annihilate it.

- and, it gave her the ability to utilize the weaker version of Nihilus's drain.


http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/NihilusTruth_zps995e29fc.jpg

Originally posted by Rookwood
It's crazy to think that Darth Nihilus really is the most powerful Sith Lord that ever existed.
You're right, that's why nobody does, and there's no proof of it. Thanks for making the case for us.

Originally posted by jadams3928
You're right, that's why nobody does, and there's no proof of it. Thanks for making the case for us.



In terms of temporary raw power and connection to the dark side he is, followed by Vitiate.

In terms of success, that would be the GALACTIC Emperor, Sidious, by miles.

Temporary raw power, maybe. Permanent raw power, he doesn't compare to Vitiate. Connection to the dark side, also doesn't compare.

What has Vitiate done to compare with devouring a world?

Well he devoured a world.

awermm

With a ritual, I know.

Yeah, but you kinda left yourself open for that one.

I finally got an explanation from Drew about the ritual on Nathema.
Here was my question:



Here is Drew's response:

Originally posted by NemeBro
With a ritual, I know.

You have a point.

Vitiate needed the aid of thousands of Force users in a lengthy ritual - to do what Nihilus could accomplish by himself - and with a single utterance.

Unlike Nihilus, who could tank the explosion of a planet breaking into pieces - Vitiate was so weak that he could be brought down conventionally by some Force attacks and a lightsaber.

Compared to Nihilus and his power, Vitiate is weak and pathetic.

Nihilus (especially after having eaten a world) has Planet-Level-Durability and a Drain that kills within moments, and cannot be blocked.

So, all Vitiate will make for Nihilus, is a nice snack.

Sure. If Nihilus lasts 30 seconds, that would be impressive.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Temporary raw power, maybe. Permanent raw power, he doesn't compare to Vitiate. Connection to the dark side, also doesn't compare.


Don't get it twisted, they're the same thing. The Dark Side is the Force, connection is how they interact, and strength of the connection is "raw power" to command it.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Sure. If Nihilus lasts 30 seconds, that would be impressive.

It takes much less time for him kill Vitiate.

And there's nothing Vitiate can do to harm him, especially when Nihilus is fully powered.

Oh, does he have a Death Star handy?

Originally posted by Rookwood
It takes much less time for him kill Vitiate.

And there's nothing Vitiate can do to harm him, especially when Nihilus is fully powered.

Oh, does he have a Death Star handy?

Only Son could destroy Darth Nihilus.

And anyone who can remove himself from the force, become a wound in the force, mind rape him, etc. So, many many people.

Originally posted by jadams3928
And anyone who can remove himself from the force, become a wound in the force,

And Vitiate can't and isn't one.

Too bad.


Originally posted by jadams3928

mind rape him, etc.

Nihilus is a swirling maelstrom of Hunger and once he senses a juicy snack like Vitiate, it's going to be very difficult for Vitiate to begin to persuade him not to eat him.

Unfortunately for Vitiate - it will be too late, as his unblockable Drain takes only a second to hit and Stun his opponent and a few seconds more to render dead.

Poor Vitiate, at least he made a tasty snack for the Lord of Hunger!

Nihilus loses.

Close thread

Yup, Nihilus wins.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Nihilus loses.

Close thread

Nihilus wins.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/img-10-1_zpsc8275e63.gif

Originally posted by jadams3928

That's right - Nihilus does win.

I don't know what's sadder. That you spend every waking moment on these forums, or that you can't win a debate despite spending every waking moment on these forums

Originally posted by jadams3928
I don't know what's sadder. That I spend every waking moment on these forums, or that I can't win a debate despite spending every waking moment on these forums weep
I know, you're so sad.

Maybe one day you'll be able to figure out a way Vitiate can survive Nihilus.

But for now, Vitiate just gets raped.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Nihilus loses.

Close thread This is a compelling argument.

Originally posted by NemeBro
This is a compelling argument.

No kidding.

It wouldn't be too bad, if he could at least come up with some way Vitiate can survive Nihilus.

But I think he's frustrated and bummed out, and he's off crying in a corner, now.

Yup. After kicking your ass without so much as putting forth any effort, I'm crying in the corner, while you spend all day lurking this forum.
Poor, delusional child.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Yup. After kicking your ass without so much as putting forth any effort, I'm crying in the corner, while you spend all day lurking this forum.
Poor, delusional child.
My dick has been in your ass ever since we started this debate.

But you have spent all day crying in a corner, since you found blood in your underwear.

And you pathetically still haven't come up with a reason Vitiate can survive Nihilus..

Originally posted by NemeBro
This is a compelling argument.

This thread hasn't seen a single compelling argument. It has seen a fair share of trolling on both sides, though.

Is the sole pro-Nihilus argument that, "Nihilus will instantaneously 'eat' Vitiate faster than Vitiate can react?"

Originally posted by -kV-
Is the sole pro-Nihilus argument that, "Nihilus will instantaneously 'eat' Vitiate faster than Vitiate can react?"

Yes, as far as I can see. I have my reservations about the speed and effectiveness of Nihilus's ability to devour targets, but have yet to formulate them into an argument.

What I certainly object to is the notion that a figure with "planetary-level durability" would somehow fall to Mandalorians and lightsabers. The fact that he is psychically starved by attempting to drain the Exile doesn't lend itself to the idea that his armor, flesh?, and essence would somehow be softer. It's alleged that he survived the devastation of Malachor V (I haven't found that in the KotOR Campaign Guide, by the by), but this was prior to any training and he is not known to be some sort of Force prodigy a la Anakin Skywalker, Vitiate, Kajin Savaros, etc.

Then again, even if it were true, The Jedi Path survived the destruction of Byss via the galaxy gun and was fished from dead space by Squibs: we don't argue it would tank a Death Star shot.

On the other hand, pro-Vitiate arguments have been similarly without substance and it seems to be a nothing more than a pissing match.

Essentially, it has been pointed out that:

* Nihilus's Drain is unblockable, and takes one second to strike and Stun the opponent, and two more seconds to render dead.

* Nihilus (especially at full power) is able to tank the force of a planet ripping into pieces.

* Nihilus's telekinetic power is so monstrous, that he can manhandle a massive Warship from the gravity-well of a Planet.

- So essentially, there is nothing Vitiate can do, here.

Nihilus can potentially kill him in one unblockable-hit; Vitiate can't really do anything to significantly damage Nihilus, since he would need aid from a Death Star to accomplish the amount of force needed and if he tried to use TK on Nihilus, the Lord of Hunger would merely crush him like a cockroach.

Vitiate dies here.

Originally posted by Rookwood
* Nihilus's Drain is unblockable,

...According to Kreia. Getting to the aforementioned pissing match with Vitiate is silly if this is the avenue you plan to take: he has more historians and in-universe sources wanking him than Nihilus.

Originally posted by Rookwood
and takes one second to strike and Stun the opponent, and two more seconds to render dead.

It took him a second to strike and stun the Exile, who is substantially weaker than Vitiate in all ways; we do not automatically assume attacks will produce similar results against a more powerful and prepared adversary.

Originally posted by Rookwood
* Nihilus (especially at full power) is able to tank the force of a planet ripping into pieces.

The problem with this has already been addressed.

Originally posted by Rookwood
* Nihilus's telekinetic power is so monstrous, that he can manhandle a massive Warship from the gravity-well of a Planet.

From the surface of Malachor V, yes? Which is known to be an exceptionally powerful dark side nexus, if I recall.

Originally posted by Rookwood
- So essentially, there is nothing Vitiate can do, here.

Nihilus can potentially kill him in one unblockable-hit; Vitiate can't really do anything to significantly damage Nihilus, since he would need aid from a Death Star to accomplish the amount of force needed and if he tried to use TK on Nihilus, the Lord of Hunger would merely crush him like a cockroach.

Vitiate dies here.

I'm not saying Vitiate wins, I'm saying there's an argument to be had. Alas, neither side seems keen on actually contributing one.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...According to Kreia. Getting to the aforementioned pissing match with Vitiate is silly if this is the avenue you plan to take: he has more historians and in-universe sources wanking him than Nihilus.

It took him a second to strike and stun the Exile, who is substantially weaker than Vitiate in all ways; we do not automatically assume attacks will produce similar results against a more powerful and prepared adversary.

The problem with this has already been addressed.

From the surface of Malachor V, yes? Which is known to be an exceptionally powerful dark side nexus, if I recall.

I'm not saying Vitiate wins, I'm saying there's an argument to be had. Alas, neither side seems keen on actually contributing one.

This has been gone over many times as well.

Kreia already made it clear there was no defense against the technique, and even against three powerful Jedi Masters of the High Jedi Council, who came to Dantooine, prepared to kill the Exile and her companions - they still were helpless to deal with Kreia's weaker version of the Drain.

And Nihilus is himself a wormhole of Dark side energy, unto himself, and he carries of the echoes of death of Malachor V with him, everywhere he goes - so he doesn't need a Dark side nexus.

If nothing else, the energy he had taken into himself previously from Malachor, gave him the strength needed to wrest the warship from the gravity-well of the Planet.

So he basically is a temporary-Dark side Nexus, unto himself - meaning the planet actually being there with him or not, is irrelevant.

I know you're a good Debator, and I respect you for your skill and impressive intellect.

But Vitiate has no chance, here. He can't even harm an entity that every official source known (or literally every site we can find) says that he tanked the planet being ripped into pieces, which takes millions upon millions of mega-tons of force.

Aside from that quandary, the only chance Vitiate has is being able to try and persuade Nihilus not to devour him (as a Force-rich individual like Vitiate would be a tasty-snack to him) and within the short time-frame, Nihilus could easily telekinetically crush Vitiate like a bug, or easily Drain him.

There is literally nothing Vitiate can do here, except turn, and run away.

I'd drop the planet-tanking argument, frankly. It is inconsistent first of all, and ignores frankly more contextually likely alternative, that he was not killed because he was changed by it, rather than tanking it.

No please guys, I enjoy watching this idiot post.

Originally posted by jadams3928
No please guys, I enjoy watching this idiot post.
It's more than you're capable of.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'd drop the planet-tanking argument, frankly. It is inconsistent first of all, and ignores frankly more contextually likely alternative, that he was not killed because he was changed by it, rather than tanking it.

If the nature of what he was (Force Wound), couldn't tank a planet being ripped into pieces - then he wouldn't have survived to change into a Force Wound.

Add to the fact that he essentially absorbed all of the death and destruction wrought on the Force, and it fed him, giving him power to survive such destruction.


Because he changed from Human to Wound, in mid-destruction, and if his new form couldn't handle such damage (the Planet ripping into five or six pieces, around him) - he wouldn't be around afterwards.

So what you just said, is actually inconsistent.

You might want to think it over some more.

In other words, the change isn't what enabled him to survive - it was the nature of what he turned into that enabled it.

He didn't change before the Planet was crushed to pieces, because there was no death to feed off of, and he didn't change afterward because the force of the planet splitting into five or six pieces, would have vaporized him as a human.

He changed, as the destruction occurred, as the death spewed and echoed through the Force - and in mid-destruction, mid-nova, if what he changed into, couldn't handle the earth-shattering damage, then he wouldn't be around afterwards.

It was not the change itself, but the actual nature of what he turned into, as the planet was ripped to pieces, that enabled him to survive.

Add the death that fed into him when he changed, and you understand he was empowered by massive energies through the Force as well.

Just like a Katarr-fed Nihilus would be.

Just like the Nihilus that Vitiate has to fight, here.

- So it would do well to actually understand things and use logic. Then what you're looking at looks less convoluted.

Hey, the dumbass is lecturing others on logic. NICE

Originally posted by Rookwood
So Vitiate dies.
Vitiate cannot die in conventional fashion after gaining immortality.

Also, Vitiate was the sole survivor of the ritual he performed on Nathema to gain immortality. Every other living organism perished. His durability and command of the dark side is well noted here.

Vitiate's powers are also potent enough to utterly destroy Darth Nihilus in combat.

Well apparently this also clears up the notion that Nihilus escaped Malachor via Force-retrieved wreckage. He clearly left with Kreia.