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This is the Battle at Helm's Deep, except with no Gandalf rescuing everyone at the end.

There is also no fellowhip to help.

You are given command of the entire garrison. Then, a magic entity shows up and gives you a choice of cloning any single member of the Fellowship. The choices are:

1) 20 Gandalfs
2) 100 Legolas'
3) 200 Aragorns
4) 250 Gimlis
5) 400 Boromirs

Bear in mind, if you die in the defense, you die for real. So choose wisely!

I'd take 100 Legolas's.

100 of the best archer's in all the world, who can rapid fire arrows with pinpoint accuracy, and are almost as good in swordplay as Aragorn.

"Almost as good in swordplay as Aragorn"... Jesus Christ.

I'd go for the 400 Boromirs.

Legolas is faster, but Aragorn was pretty much shown to be the best of the three in melee combat. Unless I'm mistaken. I haven't seen the movies in years.

100 Legolas' would still all miss the suicide bomber.

I'll take the 400 Boromir's. That guy can solo whole platoons.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
100 Legolas' would still all miss the suicide bomber.

I'll take the 400 Boromir's. That guy can solo whole platoons.

Legolas didn't miss the bomber, he im twice and each hit was dead on just beside the guy's neck. Would normally kill a normal Uruk (such as when the first arrow was shot and hit an uruk just beside the neck) but the zerker musta been on something.

Still, since the forum poster would be the one leading the defense, you'd have prior knowledge of the bomb and could take measures to defend against it.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
This is the Battle at Helm's Deep, except with no Gandalf rescuing everyone at the end.

There is also no fellowhip to help.

You are given command of the entire garrison. Then, a magic entity shows up and gives you a choice of cloning any single member of the Fellowship. The choices are:

1) 20 Gandalfs
2) 100 Legolas'
3) 200 Aragorns
4) 250 Gimlis
5) 400 Boromirs

Bear in mind, if you die in the defense, you die for real. So choose wisely!


Wait, so is this the 10,000 Uruk Hai vs. only one of the options given above? OR is it the Rohan defenders + Elven archers + one of the options you choose above (basically you replace Gandalf and the rescuing Rohirrim with one of the above)?

BTW, in the Two Towers EE, Gimli states he killed 43 Uruks in the night. 43 * 250 = 10,750 dead Orcs... Not to mention after watching the Hobbit, Dwarves seem to fight well together.

I would probably take the 400 Boromirs, each with sword and shield. The book seriously made him a demi-god; he was shot with 20 arrows and killed like 30-40 Orcs. The movie itself depicts him killing around 8? I think, but there was probably a lot more offscreen before he blew the Horn and while Aragorn was running towards him.


Anyway, all of this depends on the bomb. If we have prior knowledge of the bomb, then we could just move a boulder or something to block the culvert. If we don't have prior knowledge of the bomb, then it really depends on how many of the troops are killed in the explosion.

Originally posted by -kV-
Wait, so is this the 10,000 Uruk Hai vs. only one of the options given above? OR is it the Rohan defenders + Elven archers + one of the options you choose above (basically you replace Gandalf and the rescuing Rohirrim with one of the above)?

BTW, in the Two Towers EE, Gimli states he killed 43 Uruks in the night. 43 * 250 = 10,750 dead Orcs... Not to mention after watching the Hobbit, Dwarves seem to fight well together.

I would probably take the 400 Boromirs, each with sword and shield. The book seriously made him a demi-god; he was shot with 20 arrows and killed like 30-40 Orcs. The movie itself depicts him killing around 8? I think, but there was probably a lot more offscreen before he blew the Horn and while Aragorn was running towards him.


Anyway, all of this depends on the bomb. If we have prior knowledge of the bomb, then we could just move a boulder or something to block the culvert. If we don't have prior knowledge of the bomb, then it really depends on how many of the troops are killed in the explosion.

You get Rohan defenders and the Elven reinforcements. No fellowship or Gandalf/cavalry coming tho.

You get prior knowledge of the bomb, so you can do something about it. This is movie "feats". No book showings allowed.

Originally posted by KingD19
Legolas is faster, but Aragorn was pretty much shown to be the best of the three in melee combat. Unless I'm mistaken. I haven't seen the movies in years.

Best in melee? Legolas was untouchable in melee. Aragorn suffered his own close calls.

S'why I said unless I'm mistaken.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Best in melee? Legolas was untouchable in melee. Aragorn suffered his own close calls. Legolas barely engaged in Melee.

After seeing the Hobbit I'm either taking 20 Gandalfs or 400 Boromirs.

Seriously Boromir was probably the best Melee Fighter in the group, and continued to kill quite a few Uru-Kai even with arrows coming out of him.

400 of those guys would be difficult to beat in a fortified area.

Yeah. Boromir is a beast. 400 of him would be crazy.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Best in melee? Legolas was untouchable in melee. Aragorn suffered his own close calls.

lol

Gotta love Legolas fanboys. You do realize this is because Legolas engages in melee like once or twice. Anyway, in the end even Gimli gets more kills than him at Helm's Deep.

The fact that Legolas, even with his l33t bow, and uber knife skills, only tied Gimli, a freaking Dwarf... is pretty telling.


Boromir, alone--no army, defensive walls, or preparation, took on an entire platoon of Uruk-hai. Even near death he was kicking their ass. Give me 400 of that guy, we'll walk right in to Mordor.

Except none of them has the skills to take down that war mammoth like Legolas did. Also in the fight against the troll, only Legolas seemed like he wasn't in any serious trouble. He may not have had too many melee fights, but the once he was in were exceptional and would have been hard to duplicate by the others.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Except none of them has the skills to take down that war mammoth like Legolas did. Also in the fight against the troll, only Legolas seemed like he wasn't in any serious trouble. He may not have had too many melee fights, but the once he was in were exceptional and would have been hard to duplicate by the others. Legoloas had the skills to take down the war mammoth because it was big and slow and he was agile enough to climb up it. That's like saying a wizard in a party of warriors is the only person with the skills to deal with magic.

His melee fights were not any better than the others. The only trouble they would have had duplicating was the agility of the Elf, but Legolas wasn't as strong as gimili or as well rounded as Aragorn.

And Gimili tied Legolas in Helm's deep in kill count despite Legolas having a better range ability what should that tell you is that Legolas isn't as good in Melee as the others. Otherwise his kill count would have been higher since he had before the Uru-Kai's reached melee and during to gather kills.

Originally posted by Newjak
Seriously Boromir was probably the best Melee Fighter in the group, and continued to kill quite a few Uru-Kai even with arrows coming out of him.


Gandalf killed a Balrog in melee as well as one shotted a large troll on horseback. He'd be my bet for best melee fighter in the group.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Except none of them has the skills to take down that war mammoth like Legolas did. Also in the fight against the troll, only Legolas seemed like he wasn't in any serious trouble. He may not have had too many melee fights, but the once he was in were exceptional and would have been hard to duplicate by the others.

Eh, how is climbing a Mumakil a feat for sword-mastery? No one is denying that Legolas is the most agile of the group, but being an exceptional climber does not mean his blade work is anyway comparable to Aragorn's or even Gimils.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Except none of them has the skills to take down that war mammoth like Legolas did. Yeah, it's not like a young woman with a midget on a horse took down a Mumakil in a fraction of the time it took Legolas... that'd just be ridiculous.


I don't know what Mumaks or Trolls have to do with the all-Uruk army at Helm's Deep though. The Super Archer with mad melee skills only tied the Dwarf. I'll take the Uruk cleaving badass x400 any day. Actually, given Legolas rather poor performance in that battle, I would take any of the other options. Well, maybe not the Gimlis...

As I see it a 100 more Legolas isn't needed, you already got the elven reinforcement, you need someone who can stand the ground on the wall for what seems like a eternity, and while I personally don't think that Boromir is better in a swordfight then Aragon, I still get 200 Boromirs more then I get Aragons. I think for that reason alone I'll go with Boromir, had I gotten 300 Aragons I would have nicked that one instead.

On another note, Gimli to me also seems like a good option simply based on how he performed on the wall, he was occupying two siege ladders by himself.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Gandalf killed a Balrog in melee as well as one shotted a large troll on horseback. He'd be my bet for best melee fighter in the group.

Well I don't really count Gandalf in any of these discussions otherwise he would be tops in everything he is a wizard afterall


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, it's not like a young woman with a midget on a horse took down a Mumakil in a fraction of the time it took Legolas... that'd just be ridiculous.


I don't know what Mumaks or Trolls have to do with the all-Uruk army at Helm's Deep though. The Super Archer with mad melee skills only tied the Dwarf. I'll take the Uruk cleaving badass x400 any day. Actually, given Legolas rather poor performance in that battle, I would take any of the other options. Well, maybe not the Gimlis... I forgot she took down the Mumakil

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Actually, given Legolas rather poor performance in that battle, I would take any of the other options. Well, maybe not the Gimlis...

Why wouldn't you take the Gimlis? One Gimli took out 43 Orcs. Give me 250 of those guys.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, it's not like a young woman with a midget on a horse took down a Mumakil in a fraction of the time it took Legolas... that'd just be ridiculous.


I think you forgot the fact that the same young woman with a midget minus their horse took out the Witch-King (at his full power) and his mount.

The same full powered Witch-King who pwned Gandalf on the extended edition.

Edit.

And you forgot that as a woman, she was the "loophole" in the prophecy of his power. Even as a Maiar, Gandalf was a man. Eowyn wasn't.

Originally posted by KingD19
And you forgot that as a woman, she was the "loophole" in the prophecy of his power. Even as a Maiar, Gandalf was a man. Eowyn wasn't.

The "loophole" allowed her to kill him once he was down, yes. Gandalf wasn't even able to get him off his mount. She took out his mount in 2 shots. Point is, Eowyn was badass based on actual on screen "feats". The fact she took down the mammoth-thingy shouldn't diminish Legolas' showing at all.

Also, Gandalf was male, "men" was also more race than gender in ME. Wizards tend to be distinguished from "men" in ME but that's beside the point.

Originally posted by KingD19
And you forgot that as a woman, she was the "loophole" in the prophecy of his power. Even as a Maiar, Gandalf was a man. Eowyn wasn't.

And he forgot the context of their "battle"....

Originally posted by ares834
And he forgot the context of their "battle"....

Pls define the "context" that I forgot.

The part where Eowyn got her ass whooped and the Witch-King only lost due to Merry's sneak attack.

Eowyn was absolutely no match for the Witch-King, only reason she lived was cos Merry back-stabbed him. Though we only see a magical-like flash in the films, in the books it's explained that Merry's blade was enchanted to specifically harm evil.

Originally posted by ares834
The part where Eowyn got her ass whooped and the Witch-King only lost due to Merry's sneak attack.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think you forgot the fact that the same young woman with a midget minus their horse took out the Witch-King (at his full power) and his mount.


Was in reply to this:

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, it's not like a young woman with a midget on a horse took down a Mumakil in a fraction of the time it took Legolas...

Thus, context is really irrelevant here. They beat him. Who cares how. Call it plot armor or writer protection if you want. But they were badass in that movie. Them killing a Mumakil does not diminish Legolas' feat.

It doesn't. However, Lucien is showing that taking down a Mumakil doesn't make Legolas some unstoppable fighter. And he is right.

Originally posted by ares834
It doesn't. However, Lucien is showing that taking down a Mumakil doesn't make Legolas some unstoppable fighter. And he is right.

I think no one is saying Legolas is an unstoppable fighter. Just that he had the highest showings of skill, versatility and agility in the fellowship other than Gandalf. Which, in turn, converts to him killing the Mumakil with the ease and style that he did.

As long as we both agree that the Mumakil "feat" isn't diminished then I think we're good.

Stye is superfluous, and "ease" is relative. He used up like 6 arrows and 30 seconds, where Eowyn and Merry used up 2 seconds. They dropped the exact same thing using less resources and time. In that context, they're superior--even though Legolas is far more skilled anywhere else.


In the context of fighting Uruk-hai, Legolas is nothing special. He's shown no more proficiency killing them than Gimli, Aragorn, or Boromir. What Boromir has shown above all of them is that he can personally take on an entire platoon of the things, and has shown an ability to keep fighting even with two arrows sticking out of his chest. The man's an Uruk-killing tank, and in a fight with 10,000 of them, I want 400 Boromirs.


I'll say this: even the first time I saw the film in theatres, I was questioning how Legolas killed so few at Helm's Deep. The master of archery with a top notch bow, and he manages to not only miss the suicide bomber's head twice, but he only ties Gimli. If his kill count had been more... appropriate... then I would pick him.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Stye is superfluous, and "ease" is relative. He used up like 6 arrows and 30 seconds, where Eowyn and Merry used up 2 seconds. They dropped the exact same thing using less resources and time. In that context, they're superior--even though Legolas is far more skilled anywhere else.


In the context of fighting Uruk-hai, Legolas is nothing special. He's shown no more proficiency killing them than Gimli, Aragorn, or Boromir. What Boromir has shown above all of them is that he can personally take on an entire platoon of the things, and has shown an ability to keep fighting even with two arrows sticking out of his chest. The man's an Uruk-killing tank, and in a fight with 10,000 of them, I want 400 Boromirs.


I'll say this: even the first time I saw the film in theatres, I was questioning how Legolas killed so few at Helm's Deep. The master of archery with a top notch bow, and he manages to not only miss the suicide bomber's head twice, but he only ties Gimli. If his kill count had been more... appropriate... then I would pick him.

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I believe in the books he did outscore gimli. Not sure though.

No he doesn't. He loses in the books as well.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Stye is superfluous, and "ease" is relative. He used up like 6 arrows and 30 seconds, where Eowyn and Merry used up 2 seconds. They dropped the exact same thing using less resources and time. In that context, they're superior--even though Legolas is far more skilled anywhere else.


In the context of fighting Uruk-hai, Legolas is nothing special. He's shown no more proficiency killing them than Gimli, Aragorn, or Boromir. What Boromir has shown above all of them is that he can personally take on an entire platoon of the things, and has shown an ability to keep fighting even with two arrows sticking out of his chest. The man's an Uruk-killing tank, and in a fight with 10,000 of them, I want 400 Boromirs.


I'll say this: even the first time I saw the film in theatres, I was questioning how Legolas killed so few at Helm's Deep. The master of archery with a top notch bow, and he manages to not only miss the suicide bomber's head twice, but he only ties Gimli. If his kill count had been more... appropriate... then I would pick him.

And like I said, Eowyn/Merry killing the Mumakil does not diminish Legolas' feat in the context of what they've been able to kill on screen. That's alll I'm saying.

And I agree, Legolas should have killed more, not sure how Gimili managed to catch up even when Legolas had like 17 or 18 kill (to Gimli's 2) head start at the beginning. There was a part where Gimli was just pushing Uruk's off the ladders in 2s and there was also the part where he and Aragorn shoved a ton of Uruks off the bridge w/c could have lended to him being able to catch up.

And to be fair, on the Zerker side, it doesn't look like he was aiming for the guy's head (as it was helmeted). I think his shots were dead on, both buried beside the guy's neck. This should have killed any other Uruk, human or orc. The zerker was just somehow able to power thru it for some reason.

Boromir is def a good choice, tho. Not disputing this. With 400 of him, it would be hard for even the Zerkers to get to the top of the ramparts as they'd (the Boromirs) more or less be solid meat shield melee killing machines while the elf army would simply shoot from behind the wall.

My personal choice would be 20 Gandalfs, tho. The guy was just a beast. Anyone who can one shot a troll (much larger than the one that was pwning Aragorn), kill a Balrog while less powerful (something beyond the entire Fellowship other than him) and take on and pwn Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli at the same time would def be my bet here.

I do like how during the Rings trilogy, Gandalf's actual combat feats are... subpar, for a mighty wizard. He fights just like any of the others--no magic blasts, or shields, or whatever. Even the Balrog fight (that took days), it was basically just all sword swinging. Actually that's why I like the magic in Tolkienverse; it's not all overblown and in your face like Potter. Subtler.