Shaman Nate Grey VS Worldbreaker Hulk

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LordofBrooklyn
Shaman Nate Grey

VS

Worldbreaker Hulk

Rage or peace?

"Id"
X-Man

carver9
Lol...Hulk stomps.

"Id"
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Hulk stomps.
Mmm Nope

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Hulk stomps.

C'mon, stomp?

LIES!

carver9
Yes...Nate can't withstand a single hit from this version of Hulk. Yes, he dies.

"Id"
Hulks only chance is to make it a physical fight...If Nate allows it.

"Id"
Originally posted by carver9
Yes...Nate can't withstand a single hit from this version of Hulk. Yes, he dies.
Nope

At his peak, his body was made of cohesive psychic matter of his creation. A state of being similar to Onslaught. He would simply rebuild his body infidelity ala Sentry.

On the other hand, the ability to put up shields, or go intangible hurts the Hulks chances of even harming his fake body.

TheHulk
Originally posted by carver9
Yes...Nate can't withstand a single hit from this version of Hulk. Yes, he dies. thumb up yep cause a nate will try to slug it out with Hulk.. roll eyes (sarcastic)

TheHulk
Originally posted by "Id"
Nope

At his peak, his body was made of cohesive psychic matter of his creation. A state of being similar to Onslaught. He would simply rebuild his body infidelity ala Sentry.

On the other hand, the ability to put up shields, or go intangible hurts the Hulks chances of even harming his fake body. I Believe Nate can win this...but to be fair Hulk has punked Intangible beings before minus the fact most people already have different ways to become Intangible ....

curryman
Originally posted by "Id"
Hulks only chance is to make it a physical fight...If Nate allows it.

Even then....

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by carver9
Yes...Nate can't withstand a single hit from this version of Hulk. Yes, he dies.

Nate breaks the worldbreaker!

carver9
Nate has done nothing to show he can beat WBH let alone affect him. Nate cant come close to producing the amount of force WBH tanked in the dark dimension.

carver9
By the way, Hulk has hit intangible beings.

armedforbattle
Nate Wins. He is too versatile

moonknight11
Nate "I make Xavier's telepathy look like shit" Grey shuts down hulk's mind.

TheHulk
Originally posted by moonknight11
Nate "I make Xavier's telepathy look like shit" Grey shuts down hulk's mind. Hulk ''No matter who you bring out Hulk will keep smashing!!!'' Hulk overcomes everything Nate Brings and smashes him evil face

DarkSaint85
Nate Grey stomps. How?

Levitation, then chuck Hulk into space.

Naija boy
Not sure that simple tk would work too well on wbh.... Or even at all considering that tk has been resisted via strength in the past. Nate grey has absolutely no chance of putting wbh down via power output so perhaps he can do it via something esoteric. Otherwise stalemate presuming he stays intangible the whole fight

celestialbodies
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nate Grey stomps. How?

Levitation, then chuck Hulk into space.

I was thinking the same thing Telekinetics don't get near enough credit when fighting someone with brute strength. Nate has more than enough power to chuck Hulk into sapce.

DarkSaint85
Nate doesn't purely do TK, however.

He also manipulates the EM field like Magneto, and can open portals like Magik (underneath people, too).

Not to mention the weird Spiral stuff he can do.

Naija boy
So perhaps he can win through bfr if he can get bulk through a portal. However manipulating wbh body directly will be extremely difficult. Also if it's energy absorption I'd need to see evidence of him being able to drain wbh when even the likes.. Of armcheddon were unable to handle a weaker green scars energy output

DarkSaint85
Hmm, not sure he can drain Hulk, Id will know better than I. Was referring to how, since Magneto can fly by manipulating the EM field, and make other things fly too, Nate can do the same.

He can also make people forget everything about themselves. Am projecting here, but removing WBH's motivation (why he's so angry) would depower him massively, I think.

"Id"
Hulk has no answer to Nate's time/space manipulation.

>Nate freezes time/space and leaves him as a motionless statue.
>Nate sends him upwards of spiral to Brilliant City, where we know the vastly powerful inhabitants will greet him in the most unwelcome manner.
>Nate tosses him into a pit of a Black Hole.
>Nate sends him to the end of time, when the universe is in the state of entropy.
>Nate sends him to the beginning of time, when the big bang ignited.

"Id"
Originally posted by Naija boy
So perhaps he can win through bfr if he can get bulk through a portal. However manipulating wbh body directly will be extremely difficult. Also if it's energy absorption I'd need to see evidence of him being able to drain wbh when even the likes.. Of armcheddon were unable to handle a weaker green scars energy output

Nate does not have to drain his gamma radiated body. Nate can drain him of his psychic energy, and leave him unconscious.

Naija boy
Fair enough options and I mentioned, esoteric options would be the key to this fight for shaman nate. Question though are these things he has actually done in combat?

abhilegend
Dr. Strange freezed hulk in time in HOTM. Nate would win this.

"Id"
Originally posted by Naija boy
Fair enough options and I mentioned, esoteric options would be the key to this fight for shaman nate. Question though are these things he has actually done in combat?
Tossing people to the beginning/end of time?
Tossing people into a black hole? no

He shifted Mimic outside of time in Dark X-Men.
He time traveled to the past in his 1996 annual.
He ported himself, and Idiris up spiral to the Brilliant City. And sent Helen down spiral in Nates final run.
Locked time/space in Cable v2 #30

DarkSaint85
He doesn't even need to do that.

He has done the Magik portal thing before as well.

Estacado
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Hulk stomps.
Nate ftw.

h1a8
Well if Nate fights stupidly (or normally) then WBH could thunderclap before and cause some serious damage. Remember this is Banner (genius intellect) who knows what Nate is capable of. I'm sure a thunderclap will come out before most things Nate can do.

So this fight depends on character mostly. Yes Nate has the capacity to win with exotic means. But that doesn't mean he will win. He might try something stupid, like try to lift WBH.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by carver9
Yes...Nate can't withstand a single hit from this version of Hulk. Yes, he dies.

The only question here is whether Nate makes Worldbreaker Hulk KNEEL before he crushes him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Well if Nate fights stupidly (or normally) then WBH could thunderclap before and cause some serious damage. Remember this is Banner (genius intellect) who knows what Nate is capable of. I'm sure a thunderclap will come out before most things Nate can do.

So this fight depends on character mostly. Yes Nate has the capacity to win with exotic means. But that doesn't mean he will win. He might try something stupid, like try to lift WBH.

Nate can see energy flows. The amount of power Hulk outputs, he'll see it easily enough and know Hulks a threat. Plus, there's the whole precog thing....

curryman
Originally posted by h1a8
Well if Nate fights stupidly (or normally) then WBH could thunderclap before and cause some serious damage. Remember this is Banner (genius intellect) who knows what Nate is capable of. I'm sure a thunderclap will come out before most things Nate can do.

So this fight depends on character mostly. Yes Nate has the capacity to win with exotic means. But that doesn't mean he will win. He might try something stupid, like try to lift WBH.

You realize that Nate is not just some guy with human durability and tk/tp?

guy222
worldbreaker ftw

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by h1a8
He might try something stupid, like try to lift WBH. ...

You don't even know who Nate is.

Mindset
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
...

You don't even know who Nate is. laughing out loud

h1a8
Originally posted by curryman
You realize that Nate is not just some guy with human durability and tk/tp? Herald durability=human durability when it comes to WBH (it makes no phucking difference).

WBH can disintegrate heralds and causally bust skyfather's barriers without touching them for crying out loud.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
...

You don't even know who Nate is.
Nate doesn't exist. I know what comics are and comics have characters do stupid shit all the time. Your point?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nate can see energy flows. The amount of power Hulk outputs, he'll see it easily enough and know Hulks a threat. Plus, there's the whole precog thing....

Pre cog before the bell rings is prep. Prep isn't allowed unless the OP says so.
I don't see much defense in stopping a thunderclap. It's most likely faster than anything Nate can do.

armedforbattle
Originally posted by h1a8
Well if Nate fights stupidly (or normally) then WBH could thunderclap before and cause some serious damage. Remember this is Banner (genius intellect) who knows what Nate is capable of. I'm sure a thunderclap will come out before most things Nate can do.

So this fight depends on character mostly. Yes Nate has the capacity to win with exotic means. But that doesn't mean he will win. He might try something stupid, like try to lift WBH.
Between Precog and going intangible, hulk isn't hitting Nate. Especially when trying to deal with Nates TK and TP.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Herald durability=human durability when it comes to WBH (it makes no phucking difference).

WBH can disintegrate heralds and causally bust skyfather's barriers without touching them for crying out loud.


Nate doesn't exist. I know what comics are and comics have characters do stupid shit all the time. Your point?



Pre cog before the bell rings is prep. Prep isn't allowed unless the OP says so.
I don't see much defense in stopping a thunderclap. It's most likely faster than anything Nate can do.

Weren't you the one who said Spiderman was faster than everyone else because of his precog?

He can react to a Northstar/Aurora speedblitz:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6192/xman028large1112.jpg

He can also react to lightning bolts:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1631/xman04901.jpg

He's got pretty fast reactions himself. And as for the defence, you know he can go intangible, right??

Branlor Swift
This is officially the first time h1 has ever seen Nate.

Silent Master
Is h1a8 still trying to claim that WBH is hunderds of thousands of times stronger than regular top tier characters?

DarkSaint85
As an aside...

He can also stop time.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9528/cable03009.jpg

DarkSaint85
Oh, and any energy that WBH is sending his way (the famed shockwaves?)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5679/xfactor02236.jpg

He can just bend it around himself.

Branlor Swift
You're overlooking the fact that Nate might try and pick Hulk up

DarkSaint85
True.

And Nate will then go H2H against WBH.

WBH is very strong, you know.

DarkSaint85
I knew it was somewhere:

Originally posted by h1a8
As far as reacting after the attack this is spot on.
But I based Spidey as being #1 simply because of his SS; when an attack starts he would have already reacted (Pre-Cog). This is why he can dodge light speed attacks by surprise.

So if Reflex speed = time to react after event then Spidey would have INFINITE reflexes since his time to react is 0. Where others, including Surfer, is a tiny fraction that is very close to 0.

Nate Grey stomps with his infinite reflexes.

DarkSaint85
Or he could pluck a happy memory from Hulk's mind (when he was with Caiera, perhaps?) and make Hulk relive it. Removing all his anger, and depowering him.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/Dark_X-Men_03_0006.jpg

Branlor Swift
You know what Darksaint? For all your so called "proof", and "hypocrisy", you're still overlooking one simple thing...

Originally posted by h1a8
He might try something stupid, like try to lift WBH.

I bet you feel even dumber now, don't you puddingpants?

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Is h1a8 still trying to claim that WBH is hunderds of thousands of times stronger than regular top tier characters? As far as the average top tier then More than that. Far more than that.

Just look at his feats.
There is a vast difference between hitting a top tier and disintegrating them vs.
disintegrating them without touching them. No top tier could disintegrate another by touching them or not touching them. Not even close.

There is a vast difference between disintegrating a top tier without touching them vs. disintegrating hundreds of them without touching them from hundreds of meters away.

If Thor hit a top tier character with all his might then at best he will ko them.
He won't kill them, disintegrate them, or worst disintegrate a top tier that was standing hundreds of meters away.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I knew it was somewhere:



Nate Grey stomps with his infinite reflexes.

This is a fight not a contest. Spidey was allowed to move before the event happened. Nate is not allowed to move or use any powers before the bell, because this is a fight.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Weren't you the one who said Spiderman was faster than everyone else because of his precog?

He can react to a Northstar/Aurora speedblitz:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6192/xman028large1112.jpg

He can also react to lightning bolts:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1631/xman04901.jpg

He's got pretty fast reactions himself. And as for the defence, you know he can go intangible, right??

The reaction to Northstar/Aurora was decent. But that wasn't anything exotic (like a portal).
Nate will not even slow WBH down in the slightest. The thunderclap will be equivalent to Juggs forward movement, unstoppable.

The second scan doesn't show him reacting to lightning but rather lightning striking near him.

I don't see how Nate will survive an attack from WBH. Nate will go down instantly.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by h1a8
Your opponent can have the power of TOAA (minus the speed) and flash will still win.

h1a8
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You know what Darksaint? For all your so called "proof", and "hypocrisy", you're still overlooking one simple thing...



I bet you feel even dumber now, don't you puddingpants?

No, I still stand by what I said. You act is if characters don't do dumb shit in comics all the time. How dumb is it to try to carry Hulk/DD into space when you can just hit them in orbit?

h1a8
Originally posted by Branlor Swift


If your opponent has the power of TOAA in a vulnerable body then flash could beat them before they activate any powers. A good case is the character Storm. She can be killed with a bullet provided you fire it before she activates her powers.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Branlor Swift


That makes me want to smoke some crack.

Mindset
Does Nate even lift?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by h1a8
No, I still stand by what I said. You act is if characters don't do dumb shit in comics all the time. How dumb is it to try to carry Hulk/DD into space when you can just hit them in orbit? You stand by a character - who can teleport across universes, can put someone outside of time, who can phase, go invisible, who can trap things in time and space, etc - possibly lifting Hulk in a fight?

I bet you celebrate this post with 60 mph punches.


Originally posted by h1a8
If your opponent has the power of TOAA in a vulnerable body then flash could beat them before they activate any powers. A good case is the character Storm. She can be killed with a bullet provided you fire it before she activates her powers. Good point. Nate traps Hulk in space and time, and then teleports his brain to another universe before he can react.

753
barring timespace manipulation bfr, nate wont be beating the hulk.

wbh 7/10, Ill give nate 3 for his exotic gimmicks

snowdragon
Originally posted by 753
barring timespace manipulation bfr, nate wont be beating the hulk.

wbh 7/10, Ill give nate 3 for his exotic gimmicks

Seeing as there are no stipulations in this fight then all his tricks count.

Hulk is getting slaughtered in this matchup.

Branlor Swift
Nate trying to lift Hulk is way more plausible than him doing any silly exotic shit...

Like reversing gravity and sending him flying into space like the Great Beasts:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/57/xman04019.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7726/xman04020.jpg




I don't know why I'm so fixated on that post, but the incredible stupidity is probably the reason.

753
the hulk has also tagged and hurt intangible beings before and considering his power output, SNGs defensive capacities barring, sidestepping the timeline, wont get him far

LordofBrooklyn
WorldBreaker Hulk shouldn't be immune to Nate's abilities to calm him through psi attacks.

Any reduction in rage results in a drop in power.

"Id"
It remains to be seen if his telepathy would work on Hulk, as he was more powerful than any Earth telepath at the time.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a fight not a contest. Spidey was allowed to move before the event happened. Nate is not allowed to move or use any powers before the bell, because this is a fight.
Shaman Nate was sentient energy. His powers are always on, in that state, executed by thought. I am more than certain, Nate can think many times faster than hulk flexing a single muscle.

Originally posted by h1a8


I don't see how Nate will survive an attack from WBH. Nate will go down instantly.

The same way he survived hits from Modt.
Can WBH eventually breach his shields? Sure
Can WBH one-shoot them? nopes.

DarkSaint85
Jesus, h1a8, I'm going to respond to you later.

DarkSaint85
Goddamn, right...

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a fight not a contest. Spidey was allowed to move before the event happened. Nate is not allowed to move or use any powers before the bell, because this is a fight.
Neither is Hulk. Yet, somehow, you have him thunder-clapping and pouring out his energy before the fight? That is biased, surely?

Maybe I read your intentions wrong. So before the bell rings, neither side does anything. No omnidirectional energy, no thunderclaps, no exotic Nate stuff.

The bell rings. Immediately, you have Hulk thunderclapping. But strangely, Nate does nothing? My rebuttal to your next post will show you why I think you're wrong here.

Originally posted by h1a8
The reaction to Northstar/Aurora was decent. But that wasn't anything exotic (like a portal).
Nate will not even slow WBH down in the slightest. The thunderclap will be equivalent to Juggs forward movement, unstoppable.

Never said the reaction to Northstar et al was an exotic move. I put that up to show his reaction speed, which is fairly decent. So IF Hulk thunder claps from the get go (which he doesn't do, but I'll let that slide), Nate can still react to it. By either shifting intangible, or doing this:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5679/xfactor02236.jpg

So no need to stop it, just either let it pass harmlessly through (intangible) or around (shifting). Unless you can prove the shockwave from Hulk is faster than the shockwave of a bomb? Good luck. This is ignoring his ability to just say 'stop' as soon as the bell rings.



Look at the scan again. I reproduce it in its glory here. He is in midthought, and mid flight, when the lightning strikes. He stops thinking (showing his mind was on other things at the time of the strike), and even flies parallel to the lightning bolt for a bit, as he pulls up. His arm goes up, his right leg goes down...all in REACTION to the lightning. A lightning bolt crashed through right in front of him, and he managed to stop himself before he flew into it.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1631/xman04901.jpg

So in summary:

Before the bell, neither side can use their powers. No omniblast, no precog, no thunder-clap, no superspeed.

*Ding*

Hulk leads with a thunderclap, and starts pouring out energy. But Nate has the reactions to see the energy, bend it around him, go intangible, then do whatever he wants at a leisurely pace (I haven't even mentioned him stepping into Planck time yet).

Your mistake, I think, is to regard this like a Street Fighter/Tekken game fight - that something has to happen (combo button mash, or in this case, Nate has to think 'precog on', or 'superspeed on') before it happens. Which it isn't. As soon as the bell goes, all powers are on automatically.

TheHulk
I rather have Quanchi Than H1 Defend Hulk sad

DarkSaint85
He only defends winners.

Mr.SunKing
Nate.

DarkSaint85
Carver, h1, don't forget me mad

carver9
I will bro...Hulk stomps and you all are seriously overating Nate. The guy struggles with Holocaust...what in the hell is he going to do against a super brick.

DarkSaint85
Were these struggles when he was Shaman? Or was it an earlier, less powerful incarnation?

Otherwise, I can bring up Mr Fixit's low showings, yes?

Mshinu
Nate could just take a nap and wait for Hulkie Boy to blow himself up.

Mr.SunKing
Originally posted by carver9
I will bro...Hulk stomps and you all are seriously overating Nate. The guy struggles with Holocaust...what in the hell is he going to do against a super brick.

irrelevant, that was a pre-shaman Nate who is a miniscule compared to his
Shaman incarnation.

and i would hardly call it a struggle.

DarkSaint85
Think this can be closed now....

TheHulk
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He only defends winners. Don't we all the defend who we think would win a forum battle?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulk
Don't we all the defend who we think would win a forum battle?

Obv, Quan doesn't think/care that Hulk would win.

Carver's best argument was bringing up a low showing for a younger, inexperienced Nate, where he 'struggled' with Holocaust. If a low showing is Holocaust level, that says a lot about Nate's power levels.

Naija boy
Nates shields wouldnt last one hit quite frankly. And its doubtful whether the telepathy would work either. But he really has no reason to get physical or even go that route at all. WBH might be the epitome of physicality but he has little answer for the time manipulation stuff or a few other possible options. As long as nate doesnt try to fight WBH straight up, and since nate is prone to using his exotic abilities in combat then he wins this. Hes not putting WBH down but he can neutralize him in other ways.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Naija boy
Nates shields wouldnt last one hit quite frankly. And its doubtful whether the telepathy would work either. But he really has no reason to get physical or even go that route at all. WBH might be the epitome of physicality but he has little answer for the time manipulation stuff or a few other possible options. As long as nate doesnt try to fight WBH straight up, and since nate is prone to using his exotic abilities in combat then he wins this. Hes not putting WBH down but he can neutralize him in other ways.

Agreed 100%. Using force against Hulk is a bad idea at the best of times, let alone WBH. Trying to put TK armour on and duking it out will get Nate dissipated (I hesitate to use the word killed, because he could pull himself back I guess).

With his 300 or so ways of seeing things (whatever that means), I would think its a safe assumption that Nate will not go fisticuffs against this Hulk.

Mr.SunKing
Originally posted by Naija boy
Nates shields wouldnt last one hit quite frankly. And its doubtful whether the telepathy would work either. But he really has no reason to get physical or even go that route at all. WBH might be the epitome of physicality but he has little answer for the time manipulation stuff or a few other possible options. As long as nate doesnt try to fight WBH straight up, and since nate is prone to using his exotic abilities in combat then he wins this. Hes not putting WBH down but he can neutralize him in other ways.
getting physical wouldn't be the best moved. And yes his esoteric options serve him well, far as his shields though, they were capable of tanking hits from Qabiri a casual planet buster, who may have treated herald level characters like trash.

Mr.SunKing
which makes me think, I really wonder to what extent his reality warping abilities could of gone, they should of touched up on it more

DarkSaint85
He would've thrown a spanner in Avengers/X-men, if they hadn't depowered him.

"Id"
Barring exotics and bfr.

Regarding telepathy
Hulk may or may not fall to X-Man's teleapthy. Some would point out Xavier failed to do so in WWH. I would quickly point out, that he is vastly more potent Telepath than Xaiver. food for thought, he was drilling Xaviers mind, and all Earth telepaths when he cut loose a psychic wave across the globe. He is after all a bio weapon, designed to expunge all life Earth.

Force for Force
Its ridiculous to think Nate would stoop himself into a dogfight with Hulk, knowing he cant put him down. For one his is a telepathic/precog, Nate would know the results of such fight before they play out. Secondly, Nate knows more of Hulk, than Hulk of Nate. He took a tour down history lane, and was brought up to date with all major events that took place in his absence. That includes the World War Hulk shenanigans.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by "Id"
Barring exotics and bfr.

Regarding telepathy
Hulk may or may not fall to X-Man's teleapthy. Some would point out Xavier failed to do so in WWH. I would quickly point out, that he is vastly more potent Telepath than Xaiver. food for thought, he was drilling Xaviers mind, and all Earth telepaths when he cut loose a psychic wave across the globe. He is after all a bio weapon, designed to expunge all life Earth.

Force for Force
Its ridiculous to think Nate would stoop himself into a dogfight with Hulk, knowing he cant put him down. For one his is a telepathic/precog, Nate would know the results of such fight before they play out. Secondly, Nate knows more of Hulk, than Hulk of Nate. He took a tour down history lane, and was brought up to date with all major events that took place in his absence. That includes the World War Hulk shenanigans.

Also, going into Planck time enables him to see everything of a person's past, present and history. Doing this at the start would equip him with every little detail he would need to know, if he needs to.

Agreed with the TP attacks, too. I just didn't want to get bogged down on the gap between Xavier and Nate being equal/less than/greater than the gap between WBH and WWH....

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Goddamn, right...


Neither is Hulk. Yet, somehow, you have him thunder-clapping and pouring out his energy before the fight? That is biased, surely?

Maybe I read your intentions wrong. So before the bell rings, neither side does anything. No omnidirectional energy, no thunderclaps, no exotic Nate stuff.

The bell rings. Immediately, you have Hulk thunderclapping. But strangely, Nate does nothing? My rebuttal to your next post will show you why I think you're wrong here.



Never said the reaction to Northstar et al was an exotic move. I put that up to show his reaction speed, which is fairly decent. So IF Hulk thunder claps from the get go (which he doesn't do, but I'll let that slide), Nate can still react to it. By either shifting intangible, or doing this:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5679/xfactor02236.jpg

So no need to stop it, just either let it pass harmlessly through (intangible) or around (shifting). Unless you can prove the shockwave from Hulk is faster than the shockwave of a bomb? Good luck. This is ignoring his ability to just say 'stop' as soon as the bell rings.



Look at the scan again. I reproduce it in its glory here. He is in midthought, and mid flight, when the lightning strikes. He stops thinking (showing his mind was on other things at the time of the strike), and even flies parallel to the lightning bolt for a bit, as he pulls up. His arm goes up, his right leg goes down...all in REACTION to the lightning. A lightning bolt crashed through right in front of him, and he managed to stop himself before he flew into it.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1631/xman04901.jpg

So in summary:

Before the bell, neither side can use their powers. No omniblast, no precog, no thunder-clap, no superspeed.

*Ding*

Hulk leads with a thunderclap, and starts pouring out energy. But Nate has the reactions to see the energy, bend it around him, go intangible, then do whatever he wants at a leisurely pace (I haven't even mentioned him stepping into Planck time yet).

Your mistake, I think, is to regard this like a Street Fighter/Tekken game fight - that something has to happen (combo button mash, or in this case, Nate has to think 'precog on', or 'superspeed on') before it happens. Which it isn't. As soon as the bell goes, all powers are on automatically.

The force would be unstoppable for Nate. He doesn't have the power to stop WBH. Doesn't matter if he sees it coming. The point is can he activate his exotic powers faster than Hulk's thunderclap can reach him?

I didn't see Nate going intangible there. Even so then how long would it take for him to do it? Nate could have reacted to the lightning far away and only managed to stop within a few feet of it. You see the energy lines of his path going out of the picture. Meaning the lightning could have struck in front of him. And he just stop because of surprise.

I didn't say Hulk will lead with a thunderclap. But he could knowing Nate's abilities or while being lifted in the air.

Bran is acting silly, of course Nate will try to lift Hulk. This is common sense stuff. Posting a scan of Nate doing something else doesn't mean he's immune to doing the stupid and lifting Hulk.

DarkSaint85
Did you see the scan where a weaker Nate was curving the shockwaves and shrapnel from an explosion around him? a feat directly applicable to this battle. He can and has reacted to explosive energies heading in his direction, pre upgrade.

I've never said he could match Hulk force for force. In fact, all the strategies involve letting the destructive energies of the Hulk either pass through or around him.

And again, you're making the mistake of thinking Shaman Nate has to activate his powers to use them. They're always on, its like saying Hulk has to think in order to have his HF

And Nate knows Hulks abilities better than Hulk knows his.

DarkSaint85
He goes intangible against a simultaneous attack from Daken (at melee range), and Bullseye at pretty close range:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3315/darkxmen003012.jpg


So its not like he has to shout Hadouken, or do hand seals, or anything like that.

DarkSaint85
He goes intangible against a simultaneous attack from Daken (at melee range), and Bullseye at pretty close range:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3315/darkxmen003012.jpg


So its no

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did you see the scan where a weaker Nate was curving the shockwaves and shrapnel from an explosion around him? a feat directly applicable to this battle. He can and has reacted to explosive energies heading in his direction, pre upgrade.

I've never said he could match Hulk force for force. In fact, all the strategies involve letting the destructive energies of the Hulk either pass through or around him.

And again, you're making the mistake of thinking Shaman Nate has to activate his powers to use them. They're always on, its like saying Hulk has to think in order to have his HF

And Nate knows Hulks abilities better than Hulk knows his.

But that showing doesn't mean he can curve any energy no matter how powerful. Could he curve the energy from Odin, or Galactus, or LT?
My point is that the energy coming from WBH is too strong for him to curve entirely.

My point is when someone decides to do something then it isn't always instaneous and thus takes time. Sure I can move my hand when I think of it but if I decide to vomit then that will take some time. Just because a being can go intangible doesn't mean they can do so instantly. It could take a split second to happen after the initial though. The process could take that long or longer.

Lastly, how can Nate affect the WBH, without bfr, even if WBH just stood there and not fought? I'm having a hard time seeing how he could even damage WBH in any way.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He goes intangible against a simultaneous attack from Daken (at melee range), and Bullseye at pretty close range:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3315/darkxmen003012.jpg


So its no

So this showing is what you base Nate being able to go intangible.
Well it doesn't even seem that he went intangible. I don't see any attacks going through him. Daken is too far from Nate and those arrows look like they were headed at Daken. Otherwise why not let Ares axe pass through him? Why did he have to catch it to protect himself? I have to read the story to be sure. What comic is this?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did you see the scan where a weaker Nate was curving the shockwaves and shrapnel from an explosion around him? a feat directly applicable to this battle. He can and has reacted to explosive energies heading in his direction, pre upgrade.

I've never said he could match Hulk force for force. In fact, all the strategies involve letting the destructive energies of the Hulk either pass through or around him.

And again, you're making the mistake of thinking Shaman Nate has to activate his powers to use them. They're always on, its like saying Hulk has to think in order to have his HF

And Nate knows Hulks abilities better than Hulk knows his.

But that showing doesn't mean he can curve any energy no matter how powerful. Could he curve the energy from Odin, or Galactus, or LT?
My point is that the energy coming from WBH is too strong for him to curve entirely.

My point is when someone decides to do something then it isn't always instaneous and thus takes time. Sure I can move my hand when I think of it but if I decide to vomit then that will take some time. Just because a being can go intangible doesn't mean they can do so instantly. It could take a split second to happen after the initial though. The process could take that long or longer.

Lastly, how can Nate affect the WBH, without bfr, even if WBH just stood there and not fought? I'm having a hard time seeing how he could even damage WBH in any way.

Uriel005
Originally posted by Naija boy
Not sure that simple tk would work too well on wbh.... Or even at all considering that tk has been resisted via strength in the past. Nate grey has absolutely no chance of putting wbh down via power output so perhaps he can do it via something esoteric. Otherwise stalemate presuming he stays intangible the whole fight he moves the planet away from the hulk

DarkSaint85
Yah, my phone went on the fritz, hence the multiple posts.

Originally posted by h1a8
So this showing is what you base Nate being able to go intangible.

No, its him using it in battle, I had loads of others, but they were him phasing through walls and walking casually, so I thought you might quibble and say he had to concentrate hard or something. Also, its Shaman Nate Grey in those scans, and its a very recent showing, I didn't want to rely on 20 or 30 year old scans witha weaker Nate (though I HAVE used some).

Here are others:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/6900/theuncannyxmen33515.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5460/xman047page11image0001.jpg

Well, you get the picture. There are other scans out there too.



He even explains with Ares -'But you. You are a War God. I have nothing to counteract you.'


Dark X-men #3. But you may as well read #1 and #2.



Possibly. Odin and Galactus. Moira McTaggart and Prof X have noted his potential (as a weaker, pre-Shaman upgrade) was on par with Dark Phoenix:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/795/cb29pg10.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3338/cb29pg11.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2048/cb29pg13.jpg


True. But if you have superspeed reflexes (so being able to react to a speedster like Northstar and Aurora, for example), and your mutant power was acid vomit or whatever, which you have trained to use...I would say your odds of reacting to me by vomiting in my face are pretty good. Kinda like Cyclops and his visor.


Read Dark X-men. Psychosomatically, he could pluck a happy memory from Hulk, and make his body react to this memory, removing his anger.

Or he could time-stop. Immobilising Hulk FTW.

Or he could time-travel (which he does when in Planck length), and change aspects of Hulk's history

Or he could BFR Hulk into space (yes, I know you said barring BFR)

Or BFR Hulk across dimensions etc.

Nate has full knowledge of Hulk, as he was told everything about WWH when he came back. He can see energy, and see everything about a person's past and future, so will know what he is capable of.

Seriously, read Dark X-men, and then come back to us.

Edit: Just read your message in the Odin WBH thread.

Here's Nate stopping time:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9528/cable03009.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/413/cable03011.jpg

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Uriel005
he moves the planet away from the hulk

His lifting of Hulk is not simple TK, though. He actually reverses the gravitational field of the Earth when he does it.

DarkSaint85
Damn, was too late..

Here are some more intangibility feats, showing that he can do it, at least. This is why I wanted to show him using it in battle, because you might have quibbled that he can't do it:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5682/xman03514.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/558/xman2320.jpg

He can also teleport other people across dimensions (another method of BFR):
http://i.imgur.com/LLiDt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/k4EXh.jpg

ThereIsHope
Why in the name of sweet tap dancing jesus is this thread still open?

DarkSaint85
Because H1a8 and carver are defending Hulk.

H1a8 though needs to do some homework and read up on Shaman NAte Grey, so have given him some homework.

Carver has given up (I claim yet another scalp!)

And I see less of it as debating, and more educating on both sides.

"Id"
Nate reaction time of quantifiable feats lands him in the heavily hypersonic realm.

He easily plucks 10 rounds, from 4 gunman off different angles. Stop and consider that the muzzle trajectory of these weapons are around 1,700 m/s.
http://i.imgur.com/fbrRm.jpg

In terms of flight speed, he traveled from New York to Asia on a single panel.
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3117/60171972.jpg

A teleapth having hypersonic reactions, should not come as a surprise. Marvel has gone through good lengths, in establishing that they have superior speed of thought.

Nate speed of thought>>>Hulk movements.

the Darkone
And Nate took on Qibiri an all out planet buster, and defeated the harvester!

Nate wins due to being more powerful and versatile!

Estacado
So people try to argue h1 eh?haermm

DarkSaint85
I.....try.

I see it as less as an argument, and more teaching. He seems willing to learn, I think.

Estacado
Oooh...so you are a professional monkey trainer....I see....mmm

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Estacado
Oooh...so you are a professional monkey trainer....I see....mmm

Well, he does keep flinging sh!t at me....

I jest. H1's not that bad, but I am mystified by him arguing having not read up on the character.

Silent Master
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, he does keep flinging sh!t at me....

I jest. H1's not that bad, but I am mystified by him arguing having not read up on the character.

Why?

DarkSaint85
Well....maybe at least understand what that character is capable of. I got the impression he didn't know Nate could phase through things, for example. That's like not knowing Superman has HV...

And in a battle against a physical powerhouse, going intangible is a pretty good power to have.

Mr.SunKing
lol you folks think Nate will ever be repowered?( I'm hoping at some point he is)

I swear there's so much more they can do with the character

Mr.SunKing
yo, Estacado , that DmC sig is insanely dope, I need to cop the game( I only have the demo so far)

Estacado
Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
yo, Estacado , that DmC sig is insanely dope, I need to cop the game( I only have the demo so far)
Get it it's great...I hated the idea of new Dante but he is pretty cool gameplay is awesome and the story is almost the same as in DMC 1 only minor changes except for the whole demons live in our world disguised as humans off course....gonna start Hell and Hell difficulty tomorrow....game is 8.5 for me it's as good as any other DMC games better the 4 & 2 imo...

carver9
I read PLENTY of Nate comics and I never knew he was this powerful. Skyfather Nate for the win.

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9
I read PLENTY of Nate comics and I never knew he was this powerful. Skyfather Nate for the win. I thought Hulk was skyfather?

DarkSaint85
Did you read plenty of Shaman ones, too?

You were using the Holocaust fight as an example of his power levels.......

Mshinu
Originally posted by Mindset
I thought Hulk was skyfather?

We all know Hulk had skyfater strength waaay before HOTM.
WBH must be entering into abstract strength level.

carver9
Originally posted by Mindset
I thought Hulk was skyfather?


I never said Hulk was skyfather...I said he has skyfather level strength/durability. I never knew Nate could do so much within a short time. Put up a shield while going intangible, stopping time, while tking Hulk off a planet. Next thread...Odin vs Nate.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did you read plenty of Shaman ones, too?

You were using the Holocaust fight as an example of his power levels.......


Holocaust and Nate fought plenty of times...even during the time Nate was bumped into the 616. Holocaust followed right behind him. Like I've stated...I never knew Nate was so powerful. The guy is monsterous.

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9
I never said Hulk was skyfather...I said he has skyfather level strength/durability. I never knew Nate could do so much within a short time. Put up a shield while going intangible, stopping time, while tking Hulk off a planet. Next thread...Odin vs Nate. Carver, stahp.

carver9
Originally posted by Mindset
Carver, stahp.

Lol...you asked. big grin

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
I never said Hulk was skyfather...I said he has skyfather level strength/durability. I never knew Nate could do so much within a short time. Put up a shield while going intangible, stopping time, while tking Hulk off a planet. Next thread...Odin vs Nate.

Why would you need to put up a shield, stop time, go intangible, when he could just step into Planck time?

Then move Hulk off the planet (which, if you had read both comics and my posts, is NOT TK)?

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7726/xman04020.jpg

He's not lifting the Hulk, he's cancelling out the gravitational field. So not affecting the Hulk directly.

He only needs to do one thing. Shift into Planck length. Then he has all the time in the world. You're acting as if he has to multitask, lol.

As for Odin/Nate, Odin of course. Silly question, really. Odin as a god exists in all futures etc., like Ares.

You haven't really read Nate's adventures, have you wink

carver9
How is Nate getting close to WBH with that energy pouring off of him? Hulk has hit intangible beings. If he goes into plank time, that's bfring himself.

armedforbattle
In the first second of the match he puts his shields up and runs 1,000 possible situations; uses the first one that works (said earlier) he takes an extremely happy memory from hulks mind and applies it right there, turning hulk back to banner. Or he freezes him in time (like Dr Strange did)

armedforbattle
Originally posted by carver9
Odin vs Nate. He would do better than hulk would.

carver9
Originally posted by armedforbattle
In the first second of the match he puts his shields up and runs 1,000 possible situations; uses the first one that works (said earlier) he takes an extremely happy memory from hulks mind and applies it right there, turning hulk back to banner. Or he freezes him in time (like Dr Strange did)


Lol...I feel safe at saying mind rape would not work on this Hulk.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yah, my phone went on the fritz, hence the multiple posts.



No, its him using it in battle, I had loads of others, but they were him phasing through walls and walking casually, so I thought you might quibble and say he had to concentrate hard or something. Also, its Shaman Nate Grey in those scans, and its a very recent showing, I didn't want to rely on 20 or 30 year old scans witha weaker Nate (though I HAVE used some).

Here are others:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/6900/theuncannyxmen33515.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5460/xman047page11image0001.jpg

Well, you get the picture. There are other scans out there too.



He even explains with Ares -'But you. You are a War God. I have nothing to counteract you.'


Dark X-men #3. But you may as well read #1 and #2.
Cool! So he can go intangible.


Yes it could be fast but faster than the energy in which WBH has thunderclapped? Maybe or Maybe not.

I will, this version of Hulk is highly (if not immune) to mind phuckery. So it won't be easy, especially when Hulk is attacking immediately. Meaning, WBH won't be sitting there while Nate takes his time and tries to mind screw.

time travel is leaving the battlefield, which is not allowed.

true, if he does so before WBH damages him.


Ok I will read it. But the scan you showed shows Nate not stopping time but rather the things in the surrounding area by telekinesis. Meaning, he is stopping the objects by telekinesis and not time itself. WBH would be too powerful for him to stop. So this tactic wouldn't work. Nate's best bet is too bfr Hulk wtf.

psycho gundam
Just saw this......

Someone please close this shitfest

DarkSaint85
How is going into Planck length self BFR????

Answer me that.

Carver, you need to check up on what BFR is, then read what going into Planck length is. Then ask yourself what Hulk can do when Nate is there.

H1, do your homework.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
How is Nate getting close to WBH with that energy pouring off of him? Hulk has hit intangible beings. If he goes into plank time, that's bfring himself.

What? No he isn't.

TheHulk
Originally posted by -Pr-
What? No he isn't. No to what?

-Pr-
He's not bfring himself.

Silent Master
I believe he is referring to this

Originally posted by carver9
If he goes into plank time, that's bfring himself.

Edit: Looks like I need to post a little faster.

TheHulk
Originally posted by -Pr-
He's not bfring himself. lol which dumbass started this ''Stomping time is BFRing yourself''? it's either H1 or Quan....

-Pr-
Carver.

Mr.SunKing
Originally posted by h1a8



Ok I will read it. But the scan you showed shows Nate not stopping time but rather the things in the surrounding area by telekinesis. Meaning, he is stopping the objects by telekinesis and not time itself. WBH would be too powerful for him to stop. So this tactic wouldn't work. Nate's best bet is too bfr Hulk wtf.
It's actually more of a telekinetic hold on time, given how exotic his abilities are.

Mr.SunKing
Originally posted by carver9
How is Nate getting close to WBH with that energy pouring off of him? Hulk has hit intangible beings. If he goes into plank time, that's bfring himself.

Nate is more than just merely intangible, he's actually in a higher plane of existence. Typical intags manipulate their molecules, in this scenario Nate doesn't really have any given that he converted his body from matter to pure psionic energy. Also planck length is not BFR

h1a8
Originally posted by TheHulk
lol which dumbass started this ''Stomping time is BFRing yourself''? it's either H1 or Quan.... I'm ashamed you would include me as a suspect. I'm not dumb at all. sad

But traveling through time is not self BFR but traveling through time and space is self BFR. For example, if a character is on the battlefield and he/she travels 1 day in the past then they are still on the battlefield (just 1 day earlier). But if they leave and go mingle with the other character's life (like kill them before they gained powers) then it is self BFR.

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
It's actually more of a telekinetic hold on time, given how exotic his abilities are. That needs to be proven though. From the scan it claimed that he is holding things telekinetically and ONLY holding things in the surrounding area (not the entire universe). Stop time refers to all time being stopped. Time is a different animal entirely.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm ashamed you would include me as a suspect. I'm not dumb at all. sad

Yeah, for people who thought it, it was carver, NOT h1a8.



What if they are in a strange place where they are still on the battlefield, and still temporally present, but can still affect someone else's life? That is what Nate can do - but I don't want to colour your judgement (not that I can, I suspect). I will let you read the issue in question, and see for yourself how weird Nate's Planck length power is.

Mindset
h1a8, stopping time is not traveling through time, though.

h1a8
Originally posted by Mindset
h1a8, stopping time is not traveling through time, though.

I know. I was referring to Darksaint when he mentioned that Nate can travel through time and kill Hulk in the past (before he became Hulk). I wasn't referring to the time stopping at all.

I addressed the time stopping as not really time stopping but rather tk stopping of objects in his surrounding area (not the universe). So Nate can't time stop.

Mindset
Oh, why did you quote and reply to a post about stopping time?

Also, he wouldn't need to stop time throughout the universe for it to be considering stopping time...

h1a8
Originally posted by Mindset
Oh, why did you quote and reply to a post about stopping time?

Also, he wouldn't need to stop time throughout the universe for it to be considering stopping time...
Someone implemented about me suggesting that stopping time is bfr. It was carver. They got the impression that it was me cause I was commenting on time travel being self bfr with Saint.
So to answer your question, I replied to defend myself basically.

Your last statement is unfortunately TRUE. smile

Mindset
I'll defend you.

h1a8
Originally posted by Mindset
I'll defend you.

Thank you very much!

Mindset
Paypal or money order?

DarkSaint85
Read the issue, to see how time can stop for Nate....

TheHulk
Originally posted by -Pr-
Carver. embarrasment

TheHulk
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm ashamed you would include me as a suspect. I'm not dumb at all. sad Well i'm sorry if i should not have suspected the biggest math and science nerd ass to be the one who came up with such BS logic wink

DarkSaint85
Lol did you just call another member of the same comic book versus forum, a nerd???

TheHulk
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol did you just call another member of the same comic book versus forum, a nerd??? yes math and science people are nerds above nerds(gaming,COMICS etc)

LordofBrooklyn
bump

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