DC Group of 10 attacks Asgard

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keiththegreat
Zatanna
Dr. Fate (Kent V. Nelson)
Orion
Captain Marvel Black Adam
Wonder Woman
OWAW Sundipped Superman
Sodam Yat Ion
GA Superboy Prime
Martian Manhunter
Infinity Man


vs

Asgard, with Odin at it's head. Any forces Asgard can rally can come to it's defense (Red Norvell, BRB, Thor, etc.), although enemies of the Asgardians (Executioner, Trolls, Frost Giants, Surtur, etc) will not aid Asgard. Loki will be on the Asgardian's side. Asgardians can also use any artifacts they have handy at the time.

All DC characters are Pre Reboot

Diesldude
Asgard loses. That team is stacked.

LordofBrooklyn
The raw power of GA Superman Prime, OWAW Sundipped Superman, and Ion Sodam Yat is too much for Asgard. When you add a Lord of Order and Zatanna as mages they can't lose.

keiththegreat
Keep in mind that Odin has access to the Twilight Sword, Norn stones, and Destroyer armor.

zopzop
Team destroys Asgard. GA SMP AND Infinity Man alone would probably be enough.

WW, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Orion, Zatanna, SDY ION, and Martian Manhunter crush the denizens of Asgard. Leaving only Odin and whoever hopped inside the Destroyer Armor.

But that's where GA SMP, Infinity Man, Dr. Fate and OWAW SM come into play.

Their only hope, the Casket of Ancient Winters, won't work on GA SMP because of his magic immunity.

armedforbattle
Odin+Destroyer
Loki+Stones
Thor+Battle Armor(belt etc..)

+whatever other artifacts.

Does not look good for DC

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by keiththegreat
Keep in mind that Odin has access to the Twilight Sword, Norn stones, and Destroyer armor.

OK, lets see now.

The Destroyer armor isn't doing much against dimensional breaking punches. The Twilight sword and Norn stones are a problem but Dr. Fate given time may be able to cut Odin off from them.

This changes the whole thing.

LordofBrooklyn
The attack should drive Thor into warrior madness so with the belt of strength and armor he goes out with a bang.

pym-ftw
FP Odin with all his gear amping off Asgard, is a pretty big challenge

Lol at Zatanna being in his league or even Kent being there...

Loki can summon all kinds of beasts to distract the weaker members while also amping Asgard.

Not to mention Asgard could just summon the Avengers as per OP

golem370
Orikal is there too plus Heimdall both can see them coming before they get there Orikal- http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/orikalthor.htm

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by pym-ftw
FP Odin with all his gear amping off Asgard, is a pretty big challenge

Lol at Zatanna being in his league or even Kent being there...

Loki can summon all kinds of beasts to distract the weaker members while also amping Asgard.

Not to mention Asgard could just summon the Avengers as per OP

I don't think you're aware of how powerful Dr. Fate really is, especially in a circumstance where he is given time to prepare. Zatanna isn't a mage she IS magic. The two combined and behind the scenes can cause a lot of damage and potentially cut off links to magical artifacts for a time.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by pym-ftw
FP Odin with all his gear amping off Asgard, is a pretty big challenge

Lol at Zatanna being in his league or even Kent being there...

Loki can summon all kinds of beasts to distract the weaker members while also amping Asgard.

Not to mention Asgard could just summon the Avengers as per OP

The Avengers aren't an option.

ColossusGrundy
Asgard becomes the new JLA vacation home.

keiththegreat
Originally posted by pym-ftw
FP Odin with all his gear amping off Asgard, is a pretty big challenge

Lol at Zatanna being in his league or even Kent being there...

Loki can summon all kinds of beasts to distract the weaker members while also amping Asgard.

Not to mention Asgard could just summon the Avengers as per OP

Is there anyone in Asgard who is beating that Superman one on one?

armedforbattle
Odin

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by armedforbattle
Odin

Which allows the other behemoths to run amok with only Loki and Thor as the remaining heavy-hitters.

GA Superman is immune to magic so the twilight sword if it is magically enhanced is ending up in Odin.

SquallX
Which version of Orion?

DOTNG Orion
Full powered Astro Force and Mother Box Orion

Rage.Of.Olympus
Asgard can use any and all artifacts that they have available? Unless Dr. Fate is at his best with some prep, I find it hard to understand why people think Asgard is so outmatched here. The Orb of Kangnosh destroyed a Universe, and the Destroyer drained the power of every pantheon, not limited to the ones on Earth, granting Universal omnipotence. Twilight Sword when lit with the flame is also another Universal destroying artifact. Odin using all of his power and rocking gear like that? That's three I came up with off the top of my head while taking a shit.

Also, what are the limits of the allies Asgard can summon? Any and all that have come to their aid? That list would include some incredibly powerful allies.

Is this non Source amped Infinity Man? If so Prime and Clark pack the most raw power generally, with Fate being the most dangerous potentially.

Originally posted by zopzop
Team destroys Asgard. GA SMP AND Infinity Man alone would probably be enough.

WW, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Orion, Zatanna, SDY ION, and Martian Manhunter crush the denizens of Asgard. Leaving only Odin and whoever hopped inside the Destroyer Armor.

But that's where GA SMP, Infinity Man, Dr. Fate and OWAW SM come into play.

Their only hope, the Casket of Ancient Winters, won't work on GA SMP because of his magic immunity.

Prime and Infinity Man would be enough? What kind of crack are you smoking?

Yes, those are powerful Heralds. Fortunately, Asgard has a bunch of Heralds at their disposal as well. Bill, Thor, Norvell, Loki, Dargo, Enchantress etc. That also includes past allies which would probably mean Surfer, Strange etc. and even perhaps other Pantheons depending on how far the TS wants to go.

Also, regular Asgardians may be cannon fodder, but that cannon fodder would have overwhelmed Adam Warlock, Drax, Surfer, Strange, Gamora, Moondragon and IIRC Maxam until Thanos stepped in. Pretty sure that was also on a narrow bridge, not the entire army, and them only rocking swords.

Prime's not immune to magic.

You didn't even seem to consider any real option as to how Asgard would win with this post.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The Avengers aren't an option.
The Op says otherwise

pym-ftw
Originally posted by keiththegreat
Is there anyone in Asgard who is beating that Superman one on one?
Full gear Thor amped by loki solidly

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by pym-ftw
The Op says otherwise

I took that to mean only Asgard/Thor related allies. Not everyone who ever appeared in a crossover otherwise that list is almost unlimited.

Tony Stark
There is no way outside of a DC masturbater that Asgard goes down waaaaaaay too many powerful beings, artifacts aaaaaaaaand ODIN.

Enough said.

Slaanesh
team DC win..too much raw power..

curryman
Problem is that a large portion of this team can't really impact Odin. ESPECIALLY NOT in the Destroyer armor. They might still be able to destroy the majority of Asgard, all of its inhabitants and even Thor, but Odin would stand and in the end, kill them all.

deathlife
If Odin gets into the destroyer armor and the other powerful Asgardians get the norn stones, i don't see how this is a stomp.

Odin in destroyer armor will wreck most of the DC team.

celeyhyga17
Odin wins.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Tony Stark
There is no way outside of a DC masturbater that Asgard goes down waaaaaaay too many powerful beings, artifacts aaaaaaaaand ODIN.

Enough said.

Any objective fan can see that it is a real battle and not a stomp for either side.

pym-ftw
^
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The raw power of GA Superman Prime, OWAW Sundipped Superman, and Ion Sodam Yat is too much for Asgard. When you add a Lord of Order and Zatanna as mages they can't lose.

Sorry but you walked into this...

abhilegend
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Full gear Thor amped by loki solidly
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What kind of crack are you smoking?

pym-ftw
Thor with full OF armor & Shield plus the belt of strength and Gungir, while also amped by the Norn Stone vs Sundipped Superman

And that's a baseline amped Thor without using the obscure relics

DarkSaint85
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/jlav124411in4.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/240/jlav124412yq7.jpg/

The DC team have a portable sun generator with them. And we all know how little sun is needed for SBP to throw his attackers off.

And if Loki is summoning demons to run interference, am pretty sure Z will be doing the same:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100503151727/marvel_dc/images/thumb/c/ca/Zatanna_Created_Equal_02.jpg/493px-Zatanna_Created_Equal_02.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Thor with full OF armor & Shield plus the belt of strength and Gungir, while also amped by the Norn Stone vs Sundipped Superman

And that's a baseline amped Thor without using the obscure relics
You can also add a few more non-thor stuff right there like Gungnir, OF armor and shield drains odin considerably and it wouldn't matter. Superman while sundipped threw a planet while it was propelled by energies of a big bang and Brainiac 13 with imperiex power couldn't even harm him.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by pym-ftw
^


Sorry but you walked into this...

If you saw that post you should've seen the other ones where I revised my assessment given the OP.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by curryman
Problem is that a large portion of this team can't really impact Odin. ESPECIALLY NOT in the Destroyer armor. They might still be able to destroy the majority of Asgard, all of its inhabitants and even Thor, but Odin would stand and in the end, kill them all.



yes

Exactomundo

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
You can also add a few more non-thor stuff right there like Gungnir, OF armor and shield drains odin considerably and it wouldn't matter. Superman while sundipped threw a planet while it was propelled by energies of a big bang and Brainiac 13 with imperiex power couldn't even harm him. Superman still has a weakness against magic. Odin in the destroyer armor defeats this entire group imo. They can't dent his armor.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman still has a weakness against magic. Odin in the destroyer armor defeats this entire group imo. They can't dent his armor.

GA Superman Prime puts it to the test though.

quanchi112
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
GA Superman Prime puts it to the test though. Odin isn't just 100 percent magic either. He is a combination of divine might as well. Prime also is very resistant but not entirely immune. Prime could punch the Destroyer all he wants he'd only hurt his hands.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin isn't just 100 percent magic either. He is a combination of divine might as well. Prime also is very resistant but not entirely immune. Prime could punch the Destroyer all he wants he'd only hurt his hands.

The dimensional aspect is what I'm really refering to. The blows can potentially push them into different time streams or dimensions.

Odin isn't indefatigable but then the question is how much will it take to make a skyfather exhausted?

quanchi112
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The dimensional aspect is what I'm really refering to. The blows can potentially push them into different time streams or dimensions.

Odin isn't indefatigable but then the question is how much will it take to make a skyfather exhausted? Odin has been shown destroying galaxies, affecting the multiverse, affecting the entire pace time continuum all without the Destroyer. Good luck proving that. Odin is on another level than Prime even with the amp.

Badabing
A lot of people are underselling Asgard in this thread.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Badabing
A lot of people are underselling Asgard in this thread.

I agree. But people are also saying Odin is soloing the DC side as well, which is pretty ridiculous.

quanchi112
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I agree. But people are also saying Odin is soloing the DC side as well, which is pretty ridiculous. In the destroyer armor and based off of what he has done tell me why that is so ridiculous.

ilikecomics
Originally posted by Badabing
A lot of people are underselling Asgard in this thread.

I'm voting team asgard but I think why people are underselling it, at least why I am, is because how badly the dark avengers beat it up. there wasn't many people, that I recall, being above a high meta.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ilikecomics
I'm voting team asgard but I think why people are underselling it, at least why I am, is because how badly the dark avengers beat it up. there wasn't many people, that I recall, being above a high meta. It wasn't just the dark avengers and the Void ended up showing up. Odin also wasn't there. Context.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Asgard can use any and all artifacts that they have available? Unless Dr. Fate is at his best with some prep, I find it hard to understand why people think Asgard is so outmatched here. The Orb of Kangnosh destroyed a Universe, and the Destroyer drained the power of every pantheon, not limited to the ones on Earth, granting Universal omnipotence. Twilight Sword when lit with the flame is also another Universal destroying artifact. Odin using all of his power and rocking gear like that? That's three I came up with off the top of my head while taking a shit.

Also, what are the limits of the allies Asgard can summon? Any and all that have come to their aid? That list would include some incredibly powerful allies.

Is this non Source amped Infinity Man? If so Prime and Clark pack the most raw power generally, with Fate being the most dangerous potentially.



Prime and Infinity Man would be enough? What kind of crack are you smoking?

Yes, those are powerful Heralds. Fortunately, Asgard has a bunch of Heralds at their disposal as well. Bill, Thor, Norvell, Loki, Dargo, Enchantress etc. That also includes past allies which would probably mean Surfer, Strange etc. and even perhaps other Pantheons depending on how far the TS wants to go.

Also, regular Asgardians may be cannon fodder, but that cannon fodder would have overwhelmed Adam Warlock, Drax, Surfer, Strange, Gamora, Moondragon and IIRC Maxam until Thanos stepped in. Pretty sure that was also on a narrow bridge, not the entire army, and them only rocking swords.

Prime's not immune to magic.

You didn't even seem to consider any real option as to how Asgard would win with this post.

You forgot Kurse, Tiwaz (Buri) sky father level, Gaea, Asgardian Cannon, if this battle take place in Asgard realm, Asgard wins!!

Odin can take out majority with a gesture, Asgardian weapons are n joke, Odin w/armor absorbs all the life force of Asgard and rage stomp. Or stops time around the Asgardians giving his people the advantage, Fate and Zantana are the keys, if Loki and Enchantress can contain them Asgard will stomp.

Sin I AM
can odin summon olympians to his aid? he has bfore

Badabing
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I agree. But people are also saying Odin is soloing the DC side as well, which is pretty ridiculous. Odin isn't soloing that line up. lolOriginally posted by ilikecomics
I'm voting team asgard but I think why people are underselling it, at least why I am, is because how badly the dark avengers beat it up. there wasn't many people, that I recall, being above a high meta. I never thought of that. When I think of Asgard, I think of the rainbow bridge and another world, not Oklahoma. lol

If this is current Asgard, and not classic, then that puts a whole new spin on this thread.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by the Darkone
You forgot Kurse, Tiwaz (Buri) sky father level, Gaea, Asgardian Cannon, if this battle take place in Asgard realm, Asgard wins!!

Odin can take out majority with a gesture, Asgardian weapons are n joke, Odin w/armor absorbs all the life force of Asgard and rage stomp. Or stops time around the Asgardians giving his people the advantage, Fate and Zantana are the keys, if Loki and Enchantress can contain them Asgard will stomp.

Odin isn't taking this DC group with a gesture.

The artifacts are key but since they are magic based there is an opportunity for their power to be stolen or negated. The Norn stones for example are huge. If Fate takes them over, which he should using the power of a Lord of Order, then you have the already beastly squad of DC getting amped.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Odin isn't taking this DC group with a gesture.

The artifacts are key but since they are magic based there is an opportunity for their power to be stolen or negated. The Norn stones for example are huge. If Fate takes them over, which he should using the power of a Lord of Order, then you have the already beastly squad of DC getting amped.


If Odin "The Destroyer" is under the assumption that DC is going for broke to take Asgard over at the very minimum a 1/3 of them are almost immediately taken out of the scenario he literally kills them. At that time this gets taken care of relatively quickly. Not to say Asgard doesn't lose key players, Because they do. But, DC can't close the deal.

Mindset
Odin via mindrape.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Tony Stark
If Odin "The Destroyer" is under the assumption that DC is going for broke to take Asgard over at the very minimum a 1/3 of them are almost immediately taken out of the scenario he literally kills them. At that time this gets taken care of relatively quickly. Not to say Asgard doesn't lose key players, Because they do. But, DC can't close the deal.

Lets use your scenario.
Odin in his first salvo takes out Martian Manhunter, Black Adam, Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. That still leaves the following.

Here is Team DC

Orion-Whom I presume has his Astro-Force gear and Motherboxx. Orion can also amp into his own Red rage stage.
Inifinity Man- Who may or may not be Source powered.
Sodam Yat- With the Ion force he is not going anywhere for awhile.
OWAW Superman- An avalanche attacking Asgard. All of his abilities amped to extreme levels.
Zatanna- In the back and shielded she is key to obstructing Loki and all other mages.
GA Superboy Prime- Odin will see him in the end.
Dr. Fate- The power of Nabu negates anything Loki, Amora, and legitmately can takeover Asgardian magical artifacts or negate them.

Who survives DC's counterattack?

pym-ftw
You think Zatanna can shield her self from odins attacks

Tony Stark
Originally posted by pym-ftw
You think Zatanna can shield her self from odins attacks



confused
eek!
laughing
laughing out loud
rolling on floor laughing
sick

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Tony Stark
confused
eek!
laughing
laughing out loud
rolling on floor laughing
sick

Yup, she can.

Read Seven Soldiers of Victory.

celeyhyga17
Odin in Destroyer armor, w/Gungnir, w/Odinsword, w/Norn Stones..
All the while keeping The Casket of Ancient Winters in his back pocket.. Erm.. Odin wins.

DarkSaint85
Zatanna reaches out to Colossus-Grundy, and his resulting ejaculate strengthens her to the point she soloes:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ksd1n2a_yH0/Th2y1jYTZBI/AAAAAAAAMSY/I954ZgCj_Gc/s1600/zat+4-02.jpg

celeyhyga17
Excellent point! See wins.

quanchi112
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Odin in Destroyer armor, w/Gungnir, w/Odinsword, w/Norn Stones..
All the while keeping The Casket of Ancient Winters in his back pocket.. Erm.. Odin wins. thumb up

Golgo13
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yup, she can.

Read Seven Soldiers of Victory. [/QUOTE

Which feats are you referring to? Zor's battle?

DarkSaint85
Yup

Branlor Swift
Zatanna has Shaq hands on my screen

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Tony Stark
confused
eek!
laughing
laughing out loud
rolling on floor laughing
sick

How familiar are you with DC canon?

Tony Stark
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Odin in Destroyer armor, w/Gungnir, w/Odinsword, w/Norn Stones..
All the while keeping The Casket of Ancient Winters in his back pocket.. Erm.. Odin wins.


yes

Tony Stark
So now Zod = ODIN in Destroyer armor, w/Gungnir, w/Odinsword, w/Norn Stones, w/The Casket of Ancient Winters.


I get it... confused

DarkSaint85
I don't think you do. Not really.

Zor =/= Zod.

And its not the opponent that matters, its HOW she did it.

She broke the 4th wall, and they were moving in and out of the comic book.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Who cares, Deadpool and She-Hulk do that shit all the time.

DarkSaint85
Yup. And Odin has no defense against that.

Rage.Of.Olympus
You're joking right?

pym-ftw
So,

Thing > Odin
Vs 4th wall breakers
laughing out loud

ThereIsHope
Current Odin has been seriously depowered right? If it was the old Odin who screwed with the multiverse id give it to Asgard.

But Asgard has alot of things on its side still. BUt DC's lineup is solid.

TheLordofMurder
I see Asgard going into 2000ft Destroyer mode and annhilating this DC based team...

ThereIsHope
That did happen once. Doesnt Odin also have the power to absorb the asgardians power into his own?

Branlor Swift
Gaea who is at least Odin level, Freyja who headbutts Thor to death, and Idunn who does stuff.

Plus all the other dudes.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Good point about Freya, while she didn't have too many feats, when Fraction brought her back, she seemed to be treated as above Herald level. Didn't she punk Surfer easily? Or was that Karnilla? I forget.

sCOURGE_0
Need to give someone who can contend with Odin

ThereIsHope
Odin needs to go back to Multiverse levels. Even before this recent stuff, King Thor was a bad ass. So was RKT

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Good point about Freya, while she didn't have too many feats, when Fraction brought her back, she seemed to be treated as above Herald level. Didn't she punk Surfer easily? Or was that Karnilla? I forget. Karn iirc.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who cares, Deadpool and She-Hulk do that shit all the time.

Lets put the 4th wall aside.

The DC team for the most part have worked together and are willing to function as a team. That means strategy would be applied in the assault on Asgard.

Asgard has a number of powerful magical weapons/objects. Dr. Fate and Zatanna are both immensely powerful mages. In the same manner that Loki isn't on the frontlines of battle but behind the scenes wreaking havoc, Fate and Zatanna will be doing the same.

Zatanna is a much more powerful mage than Loki, certainly Dr. Fate and Zatanna trump Loki and any other Asgardian mage combined. It is reasonable that the DC mages would sense the powerful magical objects and either negate or tap into their power.

Odin is the all-father but this group won't allow him time to instantly gather every magical item on Asgard.

How do you see the battle playing out?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Lets put the 4th wall aside.

The DC team for the most part have worked together and are willing to function as a team. That means strategy would be applied in the assault on Asgard.

Asgard has a number of powerful magical weapons/objects. Dr. Fate and Zatanna are both immensely powerful mages. In the same manner that Loki isn't on the frontlines of battle but behind the scenes wreaking havoc, Fate and Zatanna will be doing the same.

Zatanna is a much more powerful mage than Loki, certainly Dr. Fate and Zatanna trump Loki and any other Asgardian mage combined. It is reasonable that the DC mages would sense the powerful magical objects and either negate or tap into their power.

Odin is the all-father but this group won't allow him time to instantly gather every magical item on Asgard.

How do you see the battle playing out? yuckers

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The DC team for the most part have worked together and are willing to function as a team. That means strategy would be applied in the assault on Asgard.

Seeing as how Asgardian forces are rallying together to fight a common enemy, they'd follow a strategy as well. As a matter of fact, since all Asgardian forces would almost certainly defer to Odin out of instinct alone, they'd probably be more organized.

If anything, Prime and his crazy shit would probably **** with any strategy DC has.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Zatanna is a much more powerful mage than Loki,

Lol, gtfo.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
certainly Dr. Fate and Zatanna trump Loki and any other Asgardian mage combined. It is reasonable that the DC mages would sense the powerful magical objects and either negate or tap into their power.

Another lol.

How would they go about tapping and negating that power? I don't understand, do you see Fate and Zatanna having one sided prep or something?

Norn Stones, Asgardian Destroyer, Twilight Sword, the Orb, Casket of Ancient Winters etc. All of Asgardian artifacts have one thing in common, and it's that the one who holds them, controls them.

And seeing as how Odin would most likely be the one doing so, how do you think that's going to work out for Fate or Zatanna?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Odin is the all-father but this group won't allow him time to instantly gather every magical item on Asgard.

Again, does Team DC have one sided prep in your scenarios?

Fate and Zatanna on foreign soil, with no specific info on these items, will not only locate them, but prevent Odin who knows exactly what's in his armory from simply porting everything onto his person?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
How do you see the battle playing out?

By Odin splurging in Team 1's face.

LordofBrooklyn
I get it now.

You think Loki is a superior mage to Zatanna whos is LITERALLy made out of magic. Then to top this you think Odin is casually going to dismiss the power of, Nabu, one of the LORDS OF ORDER.

Of course Zatanna would locate the items being Homo Magi she would feel them. (The Homo Magi opening if free, this time)

ODG
Zatanna's done impressive things. But she strikes me as being like Scarlet Witch; a plot device caster who is sorely outmatched when going up against a high-end powerful mage directly.

I'd be open to changing my mind through convincing proof though.

Also, is Nabu free game in a thread like this? Dr. Fate's been beaten up without invoking him in his entirety before. I think Nabu would be banned per the "No outside help" rule.

Branlor Swift
Zatanna is a game changer, unlike this:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248686/Defenders_v2_12_35.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248688/Defenders_v2_12_36.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248689/Defenders_v2_12_37.jpg.html

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I get it now.

You think Loki is a superior mage to Zatanna whos is LITERALLy made out of magic. Then to top this you think Odin is casually going to dismiss the power of, Nabu, one of the LORDS OF ORDER.

Of course Zatanna would locate the items being Homo Magi she would feel them. (The Homo Magi opening if free, this time)

Why do I even bother with people who clearly can't read?

You said Zatanna is a far superior mage to Loki. I lol'ed as that's both laughable and inaccurate. Yet somehow to you that translated to me saying Loki was a superior mage to Zatanna? Although Loki beating Zatanna in a fight is a very reasonable stance to take.

Where did I say that? I don't understand where these assumptions are coming from. Is Nabu himself in this fight?

So Zatanna is going to know to look for, locate, and somehow devise a powerful enough counter spell faster than Odin who can simply port these Asgardian artifacts onto himself, many of which he himself is intimately familiar if not his creations, in his place of power?

I'm one more dumb post away from arguing that Odin will simply port the Helm of Nabu off of Kent's head.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Zatanna is a game changer, unlike this:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248686/Defenders_v2_12_35.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248688/Defenders_v2_12_36.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248689/Defenders_v2_12_37.jpg.html

Do you have the scans from Chaos War where Gaea was apparently retconned/revealed into being the mother of Creation and what not?

Even before that, she wasn't just the spirit of Earth in the human realm, Gaea exists as the embodiment of across all dimensions such as the demon realms etc. Perhaps even the heavenly ones as well.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So Zatanna is going to know to look for, locate, and somehow devise a powerful enough counter spell faster than Odin who can simply port these Asgardian artifacts onto himself, many of which he himself is intimately familiar with if not his creations, in his place of power? That, plus Loki knows a fukton about most of the artifacts as well.

ThereIsHope
To bad Reign Of Fear is such a bad comic, Id know more about the artifacts. But Im not going to waiste my money even more then I do on crap.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you have the scans from Chaos War where Gaea was apparently retconned/revealed into being the mother of Creation and what not? It says something like that.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4018_zpsf67e1fd1.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4019_zps8994eaa0.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4020_zps50df682a.jpg

But instead of seeing it as a retcon, it makes sense that she's only talking about creating the Gods, as she shows intense pain when he starts eating Earth, as opposed to the universe. Although she could very well be talking about breeding all the Skyfather level Gods across the universe, and they in turned created the shit out of things. Meh, changes nothing really about her backstory.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It says something like that.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4018_zpsf67e1fd1.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4019_zps8994eaa0.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4020_zps50df682a.jpg

But instead of seeing it as a retcon, it makes sense that she's only talking about Earth, and the Gods of it, as she shows intense pain when he starts eating Earth, as opposed to the universe.

The planet Earth seems to be a true part of her flesh but based on what's going on, and what the word Chaos referred to (Along with the revelation/power up she gave Hercules) I think her position was elevated a bit there from the mother of Earth based Gods, to all Gods.

That's just my opinion.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The planet Earth seems to be a true part of her flesh but based on what's going on, and what the word Chaos referred to (Along with the revelation/power up she gave Hercules) I think her position was elevated a bit there.

Whatever, to each his own. See my edit.

It's a pyramid scheme essentially. She's the source of origin, they are the shapers.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay yeah, that's pretty much my stance.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay yeah, that's pretty much my stance. Yeah. I don't think it really changes much in her power though.

Not really a retcon, just an addition IMO.

She still can rape half the team with a wave if she's trying.

ThereIsHope
I thought you were all talkiing about Zatanna raping the team.

I can imagine that. Oh please umm dont rape me. Should I lay in this positon, or this one?

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why do I even bother with people who clearly can't read?

You said Zatanna is a far superior mage to Loki. I lol'ed as that's both laughable and inaccurate. Yet somehow to you that translated to me saying Loki was a superior mage to Zatanna? Although Loki beating Zatanna in a fight is a very reasonable stance to take.

Where did I say that? I don't understand where these assumptions are coming from. Is Nabu himself in this fight?

So Zatanna is going to know to look for, locate, and somehow devise a powerful enough counter spell faster than Odin who can simply port these Asgardian artifacts onto himself, many of which he himself is intimately familiar if not his creations, in his place of power?

I'm one more dumb post away from arguing that Odin will simply port the Helm of Nabu off of Kent's head.

People who can do more than just read can actually pick up on inferences within a text. It is a sign of having at least a high-school level of reading comprehension. There is no need for a list of verbatim quotes in that instance.

You think Odin wins with a whim, the DC canon says otherwise. You think the combination of Zatanna and Dr. Fate can do nothing to affect the magical artifacts in question while Odin is under fire, DC canon says otherwise.

If I were truly looking to be unreasonable I could say GA Superman Prime tanks every magical attack from Odin and rams Gugnir up the All-father's !@#.

I'm truly trying to be objective and once I was reminded that the artifacts were an option I thought this was a tough fight for either side.

LordofBrooklyn
Before I post something and as a pre-emptive against being accues of lowballing, I have this question.

Odin has clearly been depowered so what is a fair cutoff point in judging him for this fight?

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by ODG
Zatanna's done impressive things. But she strikes me as being like Scarlet Witch; a plot device caster who is sorely outmatched when going up against a high-end powerful mage directly.

I'd be open to changing my mind through convincing proof though.

Also, is Nabu free game in a thread like this? Dr. Fate's been beaten up without invoking him in his entirety before. I think Nabu would be banned per the "No outside help" rule.

Nabu is joined with Dr. Fate, I think it is fair to have him in the fight.

Uriel005
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Nabu is joined with Dr. Fate, I think it is fair to have him in the fight. he is the helmet. When he's not expressly operating ad Nabu he's more of sentient equipment than anything else imo.

ODG
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Nabu is joined with Dr. Fate, I think it is fair to have him in the fight. If Dr. Fate has fought without Nabu going all Lord of Order on his opponents, then that's the Dr. Fate you should probably use in this thread.

Hood used Dormammu's cloak for a time that basically contained his power but Parker Robbins had his own feats and fights without Dormammu bursting out and going all Dark Lord on his enemies.

Same concept.

Granted, if you have proof that Nabu always comes out when Dr. Fate fights people, or that Dr. Fate never goes down without Nabu at least coming out and doing his thing, then it'd be fair to invoke him here. Otherwise, you're just conflating Dr. Fate and Nabu.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
People who can do more than just read can actually pick up on inferences within a text. It is a sign of having at least a high-school level of reading comprehension. There is no need for a list of verbatim quotes in that instance.

You think Odin wins with a whim, the DC canon says otherwise. You think the combination of Zatanna and Dr. Fate can do nothing to affect the magical artifacts in question while Odin is under fire, DC canon says otherwise.

If I were truly looking to be unreasonable I could say GA Superman Prime tanks every magical attack from Odin and rams Gugnir up the All-father's !@#.

I'm truly trying to be objective and once I was reminded that the artifacts were an option I thought this was a tough fight for either side.

Oh I get it, you're telepathic. Tell me, what am I thinking now?

There you go again, telling me what I think based on no actual words of my own.

Again, do you think this team has one sided prep? They are unusually co-ordinated and informed while Odin and the Asgardians seem to be fumbling about in the dark not mounting any sort of defense. The simple fact of the matter is, the objects in question can simply be teleported onto Odin's person on a whim. It would be but an afterthought. For Fate and Zatanna to create a counter spell to prevent that would require some sort of preparation.

Otherwise you think they can sense, locate, identify, strategize, pool their resources and create a counter-spell specifically to bar Odin from his items of power faster than the All-Father's ability to teleport. That's not even taking into account the fact that Odin is himself a skilled magician backed by an incredibly well of power. He isn't just going to allow this to happen.

That's fine, you can think whatever you want. Although you were being unreasonable before, that shit would just be idiocy.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Before I post something and as a pre-emptive against being accues of lowballing, I have this question.

Odin has clearly been depowered so what is a fair cutoff point in judging him for this fight?

Why must their be a cut off point? Odin like all characters has his highs and lows.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why must their be a cut off point? Odin like all characters has his highs and lows.

A cut off point may provide a better gauge for debate. While all characters have highs and lows, the highs for classic Odin are very high. Post Simonson or Simonson onward has enough time to establish a decent amount of canon.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
A cut off point may provide a better gauge for debate. While all characters have highs and lows, the highs for classic Odin are very high. Post Simonson or Simonson onward has enough time to establish a decent amount of canon.

FYI, Odin and co. have had uber feats similar to the classic incarnations during Simonson's run and far after.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
FYI, Odin and co. have had uber feats similar to the classic incarnations during Simonson's run and far after.

I obviously know about Simonson's era that is why I offered a post Simonson period.

What has been so uber comparitively after that?

Tony Stark
So the DC team is going to roll right through Asgard and THOR and Loki along with it's military before ODIN knows whats going on...?

Mmmmmm... No

You don't think that ODIN can sense an unfamiliar magic signature in Asgard?

ODG
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I obviously know about Simonson's era that is why I offered a post Simonson period.

What has been so uber comparitively after that? His battle with Seth that caused tremors through the multiverse? Defeating an extra-dimensional pantheon that survived the heat death of their own universe? Reversing time on Marvel Earth? Taking on Galactus? Creating an entire planet from empty space by merely walking? Manipulating and forcibly funneling universe-busting energies into another dimension?

These are some of the best (if not the greatest) feats of Odin's career. What could possibly have led you to believe that he was clearly depowered since Simonson?????????

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You're joking right?

What's wrong with my reasoning?

pym-ftw
So six pages and no one has brought up Odin just freezing time,...

As far as Nabu goes Odin can also shunt things out of Asgard.

Odin Amped by the all his gear, Asgard, and a Channeling Loki solos

He is way to versatile.

Golgo13
Don't underestimate Kent Nelson. He's given Spectre a good fight on more than one occasion.

DarkSaint85
That's because I brought up Z breaking the 4th wall and simply crumpling Odin up like paper. Versatilitys great, until you're up against real power ;-)

PillarofOsiris
Does Asgard get all their artifacts right at their finger tips when the battle starts? Is Odin going to see ten characters and immediately jump into the destroyer armour with all of Asgard, bust out the twilight sword, etc?

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by pym-ftw
So six pages and no one has brought up Odin just freezing time,...

As far as Nabu goes Odin can also shunt things out of Asgard.

Odin Amped by the all his gear, Asgard, and a Channeling Loki solos

He is way to versatile.

Not beings more powerful than him though, can he? The Celestials for example were able to mess with Asgard over Odin's power. He's not omnipotent, even in his own realm.

BattleMage
ORIKAL

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's wrong with my reasoning?

So explain to me how Zatanna at one point breaking the fourth wall will allow her to beat Odin in this fight? How does it have any real relevance?

Forget it, I know desperation and idiocy when I see it. Loki summons his old punching bag Deadpool and he shows Zatanna what it really means to break the fourth wall.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So explain to me how Zatanna at one point breaking the fourth wall will allow her to beat Odin in this fight? How does it have any real relevance?

Forget it, I know desperation and idiocy when I see it. Loki summons his old punching bag Deadpool and he shows Zatanna what it really means to break the fourth wall.

Cool, so its at best a stalemate ;-) and Asgard under their own power are unable to deal with these ten DC characters.

Concession accepted,

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool, so its at best a stalemate ;-) and Asgard under their own power are unable to deal with these ten DC characters.

Concession accepted,

Nope. Deadpool rips the comic pages that the DC Characters inhabit in half.

However, it's cute that you have to resort to this gimmicky idiocy because you have been bested at the actual debate. Next time, if you can't prove your points or realized you were being ignorant, just concede instead of wasting time.

DarkSaint85
Gimmicky idiocy?

It's on panel. Unlike your mythical Odin with Norn stones, Gungnir, Casket, Destroyer etc....I've never seen what he can do with all these stacked, but you obviously have, so you're better to debate what he can or cannot do. Of course, you have proof of all these amps stacked, right?

It's canon (I think), so it's not like I'm doing anything different from what a 'normal' non idiotic comic book debates....

What proof would you like? I can prove Z doing hat I say. can you prove your tactic of Odin summoningDeadpool, nd him doing what you say?

Try doing that before attacking people personally. You seem very sensitive, they are only fictional characters, after all!

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Does Asgard get all their artifacts right at their finger tips when the battle starts? Is Odin going to see ten characters and immediately jump into the destroyer armour with all of Asgard, bust out the twilight sword, etc?

Odin can summon the artifacts but the premise that he is just going to wipe out the DC team before they ravage most of Asgard is beyond a stretch.

Golgo13
Can Fate reach into his Salem Tower to get his artifacts? And what era of Fate is this?

SA Dr. Fate was above skyfather level in power. His power had effects on the multiverse itself.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Pretty sure Pre-Crisis Fate isn't being counted. So has Odin on more than one occasion.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Gimmicky idiocy?

It's on panel. Unlike your mythical Odin with Norn stones, Gungnir, Casket, Destroyer etc....I've never seen what he can do with all these stacked, but you obviously have, so you're better to debate what he can or cannot do. Of course, you have proof of all these amps stacked, right?

It's canon (I think), so it's not like I'm doing anything different from what a 'normal' non idiotic comic book debates....

What proof would you like? I can prove Z doing hat I say. can you prove your tactic of Odin summoningDeadpool, nd him doing what you say?

Try doing that before attacking people personally. You seem very sensitive, they are only fictional characters, after all!

What else am I suppose to call it?

We were discussing the fight, it started going unfavorably, and now you're saying Zatanna will somehow win the fight using fourth wall shit because once she placed her palm on the edge of the comic book page:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ksd1n2a_yH0/Th2y1jYTZBI/AAAAAAAAMSY/I954ZgCj_Gc/s1600/zat+4-02.jpg

I don't even know what you think that proves, or how you think it means she wins.

Wait, you want me to prove that Odin adding more weapons unto his person wold make him more powerful? I'm not saying they're multiplicative but they do make him more powerful. If you think otherwise, the onus is on you to prove it.

Okay, go ahead and support Zatanna winning. If it's the scan above that you posted, unfortunately that doesn't mean shit. Loki summoning Deadpool and letting him loose on the comic book pages? It is unlikely but that ship sailed when you started with this line of thinking. Although I can prove that Loki knows Deadpool, can teleport people, and that Deadpool has ripped a comic page in half before.

I'm not sensitive, but today I have a low tolerance for trolls who don't know they are trolls.

DarkSaint85
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051116-sevensoldiers5.jpg

I did ask if he read Seven Soldiers. Trolling, well, seeing as Flash has done the IMP once, and yet, if I brought that up noone would care.....I don't see how I'm trolling.

zeel
Originally posted by keiththegreat
Zatanna
Dr. Fate (Kent V. Nelson)
Orion
Captain Marvel Black Adam
Wonder Woman
OWAW Sundipped Superman
Sodam Yat Ion
GA Superboy Prime
Martian Manhunter
Infinity Man


vs

Asgard, with Odin at it's head. Any forces Asgard can rally can come to it's defense (Red Norvell, BRB, Thor, etc.), although enemies of the Asgardians (Executioner, Trolls, Frost Giants, Surtur, etc) will not aid Asgard. Loki will be on the Asgardian's side. Asgardians can also use any artifacts they have handy at the time.

All DC characters are Pre Reboot

Odin immediatly depowers Captian marvel,black adam, converts them back to their original form. Odin waves his hand and depowers sundipped supes, There after deals with ion. A short fight and odin wins this. mean while thor enters warrior madness mode with the belt of strength and holds off GA supes for a short time.

3/4 is gone by now. I think zatanna , dr fate and GA supes will be the last to fall but they still are not winning. And in all honesty the only thing that makes GA supes more then a pimple is his magic immunity or high resistance to magic. Other then that hes a very powerful brick that could be swatted away by odin at anytime.

Im curious to see what zatanna and Dr. fate could do though.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051116-sevensoldiers5.jpg

I did ask if he read Seven Soldiers. Trolling, well, seeing as Flash has done the IMP once, and yet, if I brought that up noone would care.....I don't see how I'm trolling.

You asked me? I'm assuming based on the name this is from the Zatanna Seven Soldiers tie-in? I didn't read all 7 miniseries. But if you're so insistent upon this scene, then I'll pick it up.

Care to explain to me how that proves Zatanna would beat Odin and co.?

Point stands.

DarkSaint85
I asked Tony Stark at the time, around page 2 or 3 at the time.

He was asking what Z could do to affect Odin. I brought it up, to show that she could utilise spells like Gwydion and go 4th wall on him.

Does she solo? Nah. But I think she could stalemate. Neither side is having an easy fight. no need to get your panties in a bunch.

I put that earlier scan,partly in a humorous manner, and mentioned Colossus Grundy. Yes, a bit trolling, but I don't think it that bad, but obv you do!

Golgo13
Zor is a time tailer able to take on Spectre one on one. He was shredding time and space and is a high level reality warper. He's no joke.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by zeel
Odin immediatly depowers Captian marvel,black adam, converts them back to their original form. Odin waves his hand and depowers sundipped supes, There after deals with ion. A short fight and odin wins this. mean while thor enters warrior madness mode with the belt of strength and holds off GA supes for a short time.

3/4 is gone by now. I think zatanna , dr fate and GA supes will be the last to fall but they still are not winning. And in all honesty the only thing that makes GA supes more then a pimple is his magic immunity or high resistance to magic. Other then that hes a very powerful brick that could be swatted away by odin at anytime.

Im curious to see what zatanna and Dr. fate could do though.

What about Orion who has the Astro-force harness and more importantly the Motherboxx? Then there is the Infinity Man who presumably powered by the Source. Where does he fall?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
What about Orion who has the Astro-force harness and more importantly the Motherboxx? Then there is the Infinity Man who presumably powered by the Source. Where does he fall?
I'm an Orion cheerleader, but what do you mean? You just described how he always is. A herald leveler. So are we like using DotNG Infinity Man? I'm confused.

ODG
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I asked Tony Stark at the time, around page 2 or 3 at the time.

He was asking what Z could do to affect Odin. I brought it up, to show that she could utilise spells like Gwydion and go 4th wall on him.

Does she solo? Nah. But I think she could stalemate. Neither side is having an easy fight. no need to get your panties in a bunch.

I put that earlier scan,partly in a humorous manner, and mentioned Colossus Grundy. Yes, a bit trolling, but I don't think it that bad, but obv you do! Gwydion isn't a spell. He was an extremely powerful homunculus captured by Zatanna in Seven Soldiers with powers apparently on the level of imps and hasn't been seen since Zatanna cast her final spell while unleashing him in the climax of Seven Soldiers.

In other words, Gwydion and all the feats Zatanna achieved with his help are irrelevant here. This isn't Seven Soldiers Zatanna w/ Gwydion anymore than this is Thor w/ the Runes and the Odinforce following him around in boy form.

DarkSaint85
I see two points you raised:

1. He's an external figure;
2. He hasn't been seen since.

That right? Or have I missed something?

And before you or anyone else gets upset, or aggressive, or combative or whatever, just remember they are fictional comic characters...

Rage.Of.Olympus
So Zatanna was amped by some incredibly djinn?

Lol, figures.

Branlor Swift
Some random Asgardian boy comes up behind Zatanna and donkey punches her out.

ThereIsHope
Odin force is so inconsistance these days sad

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Odin force is so inconsistance these days sad You don't know what you're talking about

ThereIsHope
Maybe I'm wrong. But I havent read anything that shows Odin tearing up the multiverse anymore. If so can you give me any issue numbers?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Maybe I'm wrong. But I havent read anything that shows Odin tearing up the multiverse anymore. If so can you give me any issue numbers? Tearing up the multiverse in a battle against Seth in what 1997 sure proves how consistent it is.
The one time he's effected it is the baseline.

And it was a fight against a huge pussy.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by celeyhyga17

I wanted to clarify wether Orion had full gear as the Motherbox provides an array of options for Team DC. The OP didn't specify which version of the Infinity Man.

pym-ftw
Orion has his harness and MB

Non amped infinity man
As per forum rules

Diesldude
Sundipped superman does what the hulk did to asgard in the hulk vs animated movie but only much quicker. GA SBP will punch the detroyer's head off or tear the armor up like he did to Monarch. That's just 2.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Some random Asgardian boy comes up behind Zatanna and donkey punches her out.


stick out tongue

ODG
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
upset, or aggressive, or combative or whatever I'd rather you not project yourself or anyone else on to my comments. I made simple statements of fact.

Just remember they are fictional comic characters...

Golgo13
Originally posted by Golgo13
Can Fate reach into his Salem Tower to get his artifacts? And what era of Fate is this?

SA Dr. Fate was above skyfather level in power. His power had effects on the multiverse itself.

pym-ftw
Really most current versions with standard gear

Standard forum rules still apply

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by ODG
I'd rather you not project yourself or anyone else on to my comments. I made simple statements of fact.

Just remember they are fictional comic characters...

Nope, not projecting at all, not being combative, or aggressive, or upset....if I seem that way, then I apologise, here and now.

As for Gwydion, yes, she was using it before, but:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051115-sevensoldiers4.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051116-sevensoldiers5.jpg

That's the page preceding the one I showed. 'And that's when he broke the Merlin, and it did something to my head'.....'and then, I was alone, to save the day'

Although, Gwydion was a help, I admit. He still does whatever Z wants him to do, kinda like a pet Thunderbolt. So as per forum rules (and I quote them for pym, not you), she has access to all that she normally has access to.

I only get aggressive/combative with carver, bluewater, h1 and theHulk. And never upset.

pym-ftw
Sorry Ds if you think I've been responding to something you said I've been addressing LoB and Golgo (who really should know the forum perimeters) about their belief in interchangeably between Pc and post Pc, Dotng amps and Fate/Nabu

DarkSaint85
Yah, too many threads in this thread! Anyways, there is no single person who would stomp the entire team I think

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope, not projecting at all, not being combative, or aggressive, or upset....if I seem that way, then I apologise, here and now.

As for Gwydion, yes, she was using it before, but:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051115-sevensoldiers4.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051116-sevensoldiers5.jpg

That's the page preceding the one I showed. 'And that's when he broke the Merlin, and it did something to my head'.....'and then, I was alone, to save the day'

Although, Gwydion was a help, I admit. He still does whatever Z wants him to do, kinda like a pet Thunderbolt. So as per forum rules (and I quote them for pym, not you), she has access to all that she normally has access to.

I only get aggressive/combative with carver, bluewater, h1 and theHulk. And never upset.

Why are you apologising? God dammit...

DarkSaint85
Because hopefully it voids a flame war. If I have to nobly.martyr and sacrifice myself, so be it.

I am so noble and awesome.

Newjak
And humble to, you forgot humble.

DarkSaint85
If I have only one fault, its that I am too modest.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope, not projecting at all, not being combative, or aggressive, or upset....if I seem that way, then I apologise, here and now.

As for Gwydion, yes, she was using it before, but:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051115-sevensoldiers4.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96174/2051116-sevensoldiers5.jpg

That's the page preceding the one I showed. 'And that's when he broke the Merlin, and it did something to my head'.....'and then, I was alone, to save the day'

Although, Gwydion was a help, I admit. He still does whatever Z wants him to do, kinda like a pet Thunderbolt. So as per forum rules (and I quote them for pym, not you), she has access to all that she normally has access to.

I only get aggressive/combative with bluewater, h1 and theHulk. And never upset.


Correction.

DarkSaint85
True dat, bro. We coo

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