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In the anime, he seemed to handily outdo SSJ Goku in a comparison of strikes landed vs strikes taken.

There were long stretches where Goku would be pummeled until he finally got some breathing room to get a blow in to knock Frieza away.

Frieza's powerlevel even at max was only 80% as strong as Goku's officially, and yet he was doing far better than Piccolo did against Nappa despite the gap there being similar to the one between Frieza and Goku.

Was Frieza simply a far more skilled fighter than Goku? That's the only way I can make any logical sense of it. Goku was stronger and more durable, able to take more than Frieza could and knock him away with fewer blows, but Frieza was landing far more hits.

Frieza eventually tired from the strain of his full power, and that's when the tide turned.

Wasn't Piccolo at 3k to Nappa's 5k? I.e. 60%? Anyway.

Personally the original impression I got was Freiza was simply burning power faster, and he really was stronger and tougher... for a short time, but couldn't keep it up, while Goku had more reserves, marshelled his power better, and didn't wear himself out. I.e. Freiza may have had less power level but his power output was higher.

It's pretty explicit that Freiza didn't train.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
In the anime, he seemed to handily outdo SSJ Goku in a comparison of strikes landed vs strikes taken.

There were long stretches where Goku would be pummeled until he finally got some breathing room to get a blow in to knock Frieza away.

Frieza's powerlevel even at max was only 80% as strong as Goku's officially, and yet he was doing far better than Piccolo did against Nappa despite the gap there being similar to the one between Frieza and Goku.

Was Frieza simply a far more skilled fighter than Goku? That's the only way I can make any logical sense of it. Goku was stronger and more durable, able to take more than Frieza could and knock him away with fewer blows, but Frieza was landing far more hits.

Frieza eventually tired from the strain of his full power, and that's when the tide turned. Was the fight different in the manga? Honest question, because I don't remember the specifics.

Anyway:
a) Freeza was slightly faster.
or
b) Freeza was inherently more skilled due to raw talent or what have you.
or
c) Goku allowed Freeza to land in some strikes in order to hasten the rate of the power strain inherent to Freeza's 100% form.
or
d) A combination of any of the above.

Take your pick.

srug

Originally posted by Q99
Wasn't Piccolo at 3k to Nappa's 5k? I.e. 60%? Anyway.

Personally the original impression I got was Freiza was simply burning power faster, and he really was stronger and tougher... for a short time, but couldn't keep it up, while Goku had more reserves, marshelled his power better, and didn't wear himself out. I.e. Freiza may have had less power level but his power output was higher.

It's pretty explicit that Freiza didn't train.

I remember Piccolo being 3.5 k to Nappa's at 4k or so.

But its been forever since I looked at power levels.

The gap between Zarbon and Vegeta was probably similar though.

Frieza didn't seem to train and yet still outstruck Goku handily. That is amazing. He needs to get more credit than he does. He was the strongest villain alive initially, and his natural martial skill seems immense as well.

DBZ is a world that, in-spite of the heavy martial arts motif, demonstrates that power matters far more than skill (yes, this is undeniably what is represented), and yet Frieza almost bucked that trend.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I remember Piccolo being 3.5 k to Nappa's at 4k or so.

But its been forever since I looked at power levels.

The gap between Zarbon and Vegeta was probably similar though.

Frieza didn't seem to train and yet still outstruck Goku handily. That is amazing. He needs to get more credit than he does. He was the strongest villain alive initially, and his natural martial skill seems immense as well.

DBZ is a world that, in-spite of the heavy martial arts motif, demonstrates that power matters far more than skill (yes, this is undeniably what is represented), and yet Frieza almost bucked that trend.

Well really it got less martial arts heavy after dragonball ended. After that the Martial arts stuff was there but not as much of a focus imo. So makes sense.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I remember Piccolo being 3.5 k to Nappa's at 4k or so.

But its been forever since I looked at power levels.

Oh, looking at the wiki, you're right on Piccolo's, but it says Nappa's max was actually 7k.

Zarbon... there seems to be contradictory stuff about how strong he was.

IMO Goku was toying with Freeza.

Another possibility- Goku's power didn't max out immediately, but steadily increasing in his new form for awhile.

I think it's pretty clear that Akira tried to depict Goku as the most skilled fighter. Freeza was born with great power, he didn't need to spend time to learn the nuances of fighting. He can't even sense chi which is something all the humans can do.

It's the explanation of why Goku was nearly a match for Cell. Vegeta and Trunks multiplied their power by ascending Super Saiyan. Goku did no such thing.

It's why the humans got so far as they did despite humanity being utter crap. The common power level is 5 but they have the best training in the universe.

Don't forget Namek, who has all the same techniques. Heck, I half expect them to originally have come to Earth from Namek via Kami.

In the manga, the fight was far more one-sided in Goku's favor.

I think in the anime, they were trying to depict a Goku stalling for time for his homies to leave.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In the manga, the fight was far more one-sided in Goku's favor.
/B]

Thank you.

In the manga, Frieza never gave SSJ Goku a good fight--- even after reaching 100% power. Frieza got in a couple decent blows, but Goku casually trounced him for the most part. The anime made their powers seem much closer for dramatic purposes, but relative to the manga the anime doesn't really matter anyway.


dadudemon beat me to it.

Goku was never a match for Cell. Cell never fought Goku at full power.

Frieza seemed to have more a variation of techniques than Goku but in the end Goku won!

Goku won, thats all that matters.

Originally posted by Supra
Goku won, thats all that matters.

Much more matters as Goku has bested several beings above his level. Raditz was well above Goku and Piccolo yet they managed to kill him. Vegeta was above Goku's level to the point where Goku had to multiply his power times 3 just to hold his own iirc, then he still needed his allies to aid him.

Frieza is a better fighter than both saiyans.