Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

(A.k.a "Comicdom's most ... tactile pencillers" ?)


There are comicbook artists and then there are comic book artists.

Some are acknowledged or unacknowledged masters of making a viewer "feel" as if they are present, of drawing a viewer into the scene and its actions almost without the viewer's knowledge.


If they draw a character grabbing somebody, you "feel" the grip.
If they feature that character pulling their fist back to strike, you all but pull away from the comic expecting the impact in the next panel.

It is hard to convey what I mean because there are so few that can do this. I think that I myself have experienced the impression I'm trying to describe only 3-5 times in all my years of reading. Most recently yesterday.

Would like to know what kind of talent I've been missing, if any.

I've got at least 3 submissions in mind, the first of which is multi-panel.


Strongly encourage people to submit the best instances THEY'VE found so we can compare notes.



First up, Mike Vosburg, who features Jen Walters fighting Man-Elephant, way back in the 17th edition of her first magazine ...

20 Man Elephant versus She-Hulk


The following scan, especially the 2nd panel of it, should make nearly perfectly clear what I mean by conveying "weight" of art and visuals.

I'm not sure I've seen even Jack Kirby do it better than it was done here, the man I thought (and still largely think) was the champion at this sort of thing:

Man Elephant versus She-Hulk.

(The visual science of depicting convincing struggles)

Man Elephant versus She Hulk. Scan 4.

Man Elephant versus She Hulk. Scan 5 of 5.


http://marvel.wikia.com/Savage_She-Hulk_Vol_1_17

Jack Kirby. 'Nuff said.

Seriously, virtually anything and everything he drew snap-crackle-popped with energy (eg, it's not for nothing artists still try to duplicate his Kirby Dots, generally missing the whole point of using negative space).

Funny thing is, if you look at his pics carefully, you find that his depiction of muscle anatomy was terrible! On purpose? Not sure, because the way he did draw his figures, all lines went into conveying speed, action, impact, even if correct anatomy was sacrificed in the process.

Anyway, he's dead (RIP, King). The next (living) candidate who comes to my mind, who does this "power drawing" best might be Ed McGuinnes, where everyone (and everything) looks juiced on steroids.

Kirby is a great choice, and I'm glad to see the first response to my thread corroborates that, which I mentioned myself a bit earlier.

McGuinness? Hmm ... provide some evidence for this one, please --
definitely NOT seeing this guy as being in the "tactile tier", but am open to being shown something to change my mind.

Had to look up what you were referring to when you mentioned "Kirby dots". Not sure I even heard this term before you mentioned it; glad there's a Wikipedia to clarify.

Again, though, for conveying a sense of physical weight and what an action concretely "feels" like, I will certainly back the choice of Jack "King" Kirby.
Fact, as promised, I'll go further and give an example of some work of his that ILLUSTRATES the concept.
I think no one will be able to post anything that far exceeds what Kirby's "GraviGuard" character evokes here through Kirby's details of body position and handling of head and limb by either subordinate character OR conquering villain. The following is the sort of visually-convincing domination even a 9 year-old can INSTINCTIVELY appreciate:

Kirby's Superman! Oddly enough, I wasn't crazy about his Superman (nor his Spider-Man), but yes, I think the scan highlights what you're saying: there is something "weighty" about it (though whenever characters do these massive weight/gravity things, I always wonder what's keeping the ground/floor together).

When I thought of McGuinnes I was leafing through his OWAW work. Probably the best example is when sundipped Superman is pushing Warworld. McG even uses (what appear to be) Kirby dots, though his don't invoke the negative-space effect.

I've always looked favourably upon Frank Quitely. Once I got past my young self's knee-jerk reaction (that his people look too bloated) it didn't take long before I realized how incredible he was at showing momentum. Most of his fight-scenes look really realistic and organic and his Batman is some of the best stuff I've ever seen.

I should have made it a requirement for people to post a panel or two to go along with their commentary.

I genuinely appreciate the feedback I've gotten so far; it's just hard to fully appreciate that feedback when nobody is presenting anything for people to actually LOOK at and judge, the primary premise of this thread.



At any rate, I promised at least 3 submissions of my own.

Mike Vosburg and his "Man Elephant versus Jen Walters She-Hulk" was submission 1.
Jack Kirby and his "Gravi-Guard G versus pre-Crisis Superman" was submission 2.



The 3rd artist to impress me in the field (of what I guess we'll term "tactile" visual communication) is Jamal Igle.

Note that this submission is a cropped shot. The full version actually lacks the aesthetics I'd come to appreciate from the other artists that worked on the series.

Adam Warren can pack a lot of 'punch' into his punches. He draws damage. When he really wants to show it, he draws hits that hurt.

Originally posted by curryman
I've always looked favourably upon Frank Quitely. Once I got past my young self's knee-jerk reaction (that his people look too bloated) it didn't take long before I realized how incredible he was at showing momentum. Most of his fight-scenes look really realistic and organic and his Batman is some of the best stuff I've ever seen.

I don't have any comics readily available on my computer, so I'll have to make do with google

This panel;

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/9945/quitely3.th.jpg

And this sequence;

http://imageshack.us/a/img818/1613/quitely1.th.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img690/8811/quitely2.th.jpg

Occurs to me I should be providing reference information for my submissions, so that people reading this can track down the actual comics these are featured in if they want.

Here's that info, along with a URL rendition of just about everything I've featured so far, along with some bonus images for better story context.
URLs inclusion guards a thread from info-loss due to Internet Archiving.



Note that noted Silver Age artist Al Plastino may have had some hand in the work I thought was Kirby's alone, at least to judge from the Wiki page featured for the magazine that was originally published in.





3. Kara Zor-el versus Silver Banshee, Shea Stadium

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14164287

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Supergirl #34, Volume 5
Writer: Sterling Gates
Penciller: Jamal Igle
Date: December 2008
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_34



2. Man-Elephant (Manfred Haller of Haller Hydraulics) versus Jen Walters

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163300
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163301
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163302
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163304
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163306

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Savage She Hulk #17, Volume 1
Writer: David Anthony Kraft
Penciller: Mike Vosburg
Date: June 1981
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Savage_She-Hulk_Vol_1_17






1. Gravi-Guard G versus pre-Crisis Superman


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13163706
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13163710
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13163712
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13163714
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13163716
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163404

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Forever People #1, Volume 1
Writer: Jack Kirby
Pencillers: Jack Kirby and Al Plastino
Inker: Vince Colletta
Date: March 1971
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Forever_People_Vol_1_1

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I genuinely appreciate the feedback I've gotten so far; it's just hard to fully appreciate that feedback when nobody is presenting anything for people to actually LOOK at and judge, the primary premise of this thread. My apologies. I just get lazy at times.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fKWKPyvht7g/TTR8xHp2OoI/AAAAAAAACjo/OIY_TbYv4hk/s1600/AC782-Pluto_1.jpg

Yeah, i always liked Weiringo too.

.

Thanks for the "Our Worlds at War" McGuinness scan, Mindship.
I can see, after looking up the term on Wikipedia, what you meant by Kirby-esque "dots" appearing there.
I'd forgotten, I'm sure I've seen that several times before, but I'd forgotten Superman appeared so ... "big" there.

He could pass for HULK's younger brother rendered that way ...


Not quite sure I fully understand the concept of "negative space" as you and the Wikipedia writers are using the term.


They mention the goblet/silhouette illusion as an example; I'm wondering if something intended for camouflage or the like would also suffice.


For instance ...?
(attachment is a zebra photo displayed on MSN today)

Thought about what you said about anatomy, Mindship.
Think the reason the 3 that inspired this thread do so is because they are intuitive.

I'll point out what I find special about each in turn and in depth now.


3. Kara Zor-el versus Silver Banshee, Shea Stadium

This scene is remarkable for how well it captures instinctive response.
There's no sense of artificial posing. What you see from Kara is nearly exactly what you see from anyone under sudden attack from a source coming straight to the face. One arm instantly positions its hand as a shield close to the face itself, the other extends quickly outward to block or push away the attacker. Eyelids shut, chin goes down close to chest if it can. The only major departure from this classic response is that Kara holds her shielding hand against her ear, perfectly appropriate under the circumstances, a vain attempt to block the sonic nature of Banshee's assault. Banshee herself is a grasping, screeching, muscular harpy-like figure. Her flexed bicep implies her physical strength, her other hand, though, stretching the material of Supergirl's outfit as she grabs at Kara's chest, looks like the claw of some giant bird of prey.
The detail that makes this, though, is Kara's hand on Banshee's forehead, striving desperately to keep that dangerous cawing mouth from either neck or ears. It's a masterpiece in the way it captures the painful, desperate intimacy of close-quarters struggle.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14164287

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Supergirl #34, Volume 5
Writer: Sterling Gates
Penciller: Jamal Igle
Date: December 2008
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_34

2. Man-Elephant (Manfred Haller of Haller Hydraulics) versus Jen Walters


Strangest encounter I've seen this month. Singular for the degree of grappling intimacy shown with a female combatant. Typical for Hulk.
Maybe. Not typical for She-Hulk. Odd to say, but, never saw an encounter that depended on pure physical strength and practically no skill from a lady in comics to this extent before. Unthinkable that this is from the 1970s or early 80s somehow ...
Again, though, intuitive and easy to reason through.
Actions of participants don't seem particularly artificial or forced.
An odd sense of danger and security co-existing.
Muted danger. Controlled danger. Threats only serious if accident occurs, no one really intending to cause permanent fatal injury to the other.
Yet still serious because that possibility exists.
Like children at play. Or boxers in a clench.
And yes there is one more interpretation, but boxers in a clinch is best because the man-elephant here is initiating this strange strength contest to lessen the dangers of She-Hulk's formidable but nearly unguardable strikes, just as a boxer finding himself reeling from a punch seeks to grab his attacker and bring them in closer, not get distance at all. Awkward, anxiety-producing. Animal imagery AND some of the motifs of the Banshee entry with Kara. That trunk wrapping around near Jen's neck like a python -- or so she thinks -- elephant's tusks or teeth near her throat, arms trying to pull away even as hands grab in Jen's case, arms trying to pull in closer as hands grab in Man-Elephant's.
There is NOT the same degree of desperation in this fight as Kara's.
Banshee is a far more Death-like figure than Haller.
Her face even looks like a painted skull.
And the dialogue is actually reassuring in Jen's encounter.
But Jen's scene IS unsettling -- and compelling -- as comic artwork.




http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163301

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Savage She Hulk #17, Volume 1
Writer: David Anthony Kraft
Penciller: Mike Vosburg
Date: June 1981
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Savage_She-Hulk_Vol_1_17

1. Gravi-Guard G versus pre-Crisis Superman


Between this selection and the Mike Vosburg one, it's hard to choose a winner. The full sequence encounter of She-Hulk and Haller I'm inclined to give the nod to. Single panel versus single panel, Kirby might take it. Still deciding.

The feel of this one is on a different level of the others still.

The sheer amount of pain communicated in the Supergirl/Banshee encounter is intense, not quite life and death, but so acute it could be confused for that, especially with all the death imagery inherent in Banshee's character, appearance, and demeanor.

Haller versus Jen isn't on that level. Close, personal, physical, and some nameless hard-to-place sense of dread there definitely, I imagine quite a few female viewers would be made uncomfortable by what the scene subconsciously hints, but less truly malicious.
Unlike Banshee, Haller doesn't want to kill Jen, or, really, harm her at all.

This Forever People entry conveys a different mindset still.
The desperation, if there is any, is all one-sided.
Kara was in a hurry to take Banshee down, and with good reason.

Haller, meanwhile, sought out his squeeze play because he realized he could not endure a formal striking engagement with Jen, and Jen, for her part, realized Haller had just enough on his side to take her down if she got complacent.

Double-G here (that is, the GraviGuard) has no such concerns. There is absolute confidence in his demeanor. He orders his friends to worry with the others and determines to deal with Superman all by himself. The visual language could scarcely be more supportive. His knee is on Superman's chest as Superman's right hand vainly grabs DG's shoulder to try to push him off.
DG meanwhile, merely makes a fist and in the next panel starts shoving his forearm steadily toward Superman's throat.
Universal symbol of power the tightly fisted arm; it doesn't even have to DO anything to convey the idea, it communicates all on its own.

Complete domination, this; all Superman can do is close his eyes from pain as his fingers pleadingly grab DG's arm, asking him to go no further.

Strange in this 2nd panel, surely strange to Superman fans of today, at least, is that Superman does not employ his well-known power of heat vision. In fact, in this story, Superman is so helpless that he will require the aid of the youths he saved from the gas attack moments earlier to get this goon off of him.
But heat vision is something that requires a moment of full focus and concentration. The pain and weight of the GraviGuard are interfering with that. Longtime Silver Age readers may even recall that, during some periods of the 60s and 70s, heavy gravity fields all on their own could rob Superman of his range of powers, and this is precisely what Darkseid's officer here controls.

As a relate-able concept, though, the situation needs little explanation.
Scarcely anyone who has been on the losing end of a roughhouse can fail to appreciate how helpless a man feels in that position.
Kirby, a youth who grew up fighting in many rooftop gang rumbles, would have been very familiar with this indeed.

The most powerful element, again, perhaps, is the outstretched hand.
In Kara's case it belonged to the defender, striving to keep attacker at arm's length. Here it belongs to attacker, firmly grasping Superman's jaw, tilting his head back, fully controlling the Man of Steel's movement and action along the ground.

Slow, steady, masterful.

Although he has competition, no one will have to fight me to see that Kirby stays in the top 3 ...


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163404

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Forever People #1, Volume 1
Writer: Jack Kirby
Pencillers: Jack Kirby and Al Plastino
Inker: Vince Colletta
Date: March 1971
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Forever_People_Vol_1_1

Kirby got his superman re-drawn to look more like Curt Swan's superman whenever he drew him except in Super Powers which IMO is a phucking crime. RIP King.

Kirby

His classic "gut punch" always looked like it hurt

Kirby's getting a lot of love here; in another moment I'll probably post a bonus image for fans to appreciate.

If we're specifically talking gut punches, though ...

Well, I don't actually remember seeing any from Kirby.
Intead, IMMEDIATELY coming to mind the moment you said that is the following, from another classic illustrator, John Romita, Sr.

Looking at that previous submission, I'm minded now to do a bit of research on "negative space". I don't really know what it is I now realize -- I cannot, for instance, tell if those white shock and impact lines are an example of it. If they are, what does "positive space" look like? Does "negative space" refer to anything that isn't "really" there and is just added for effect, or does it deal specifically with shadow?
Maybe some other similarly limited technical concept?
Was Kirby really doing anything other artists were not if that wasn't the case?

Right now I'm noticing perspective and hand size, though.
Hallmark of Kirby, hallmark of Romita when drawing "Kirby" like characters.

The former I promised to showcase another work for; this time I'll choose a selection that is one step removed from direct fighter versus fighter contact. Note the prominence of the hands, the effect they have on the environment, the way they shape even what is hard and straight and metallic into "bendy" organic curves (talking about the fire hydrant) and how the oversized hands are actually the focal point of most panels, as opposed to the faces of the characters, which is where you'd normally expect attention to be directed.

This is something that I always felt Alex Ross was very bad at, personally.

Those who are good at it? Ivan Reis is solid, as is Ed Benes imo.

I'm looking over my collection of classic Spider-Man adventures and wondering why John Romita's name did not come to mind before now.

I'm realizing that part of the reason is that Romita's art wows more because of perspective and sequence than the sort of hyper "concrete" single panels that sparked this thread.

What I mean by "sequence" is that actions are given weight by AFTEReffects, that is, what is shown in the panels that follow a given action.

Now that I come to it again, this might be why I appreciate Spider-Man comics more than almost any other. The stories "feel" more real because actions "matter" more, are easier in general to relate to.
Because you're not dealing with an invulnerable or even particularly high level character. The Supermen and Thors and Hulks of the world can bounce around heedless of whatever they crash into or whatever crashes into them. Spider-Man is not like that. Actions have effect on him.

Case in point that gut punch from the Kingpin posted yesterday.

Effective enough on its own, certainly effective when enlarged and showcased bigger than it size in the comics for display on computer,
the image is cemented in the actual story by what Romita follows up with:

.

Two ways, again.

Romita's use of an arc line to trace Kingpin's swing ("action" line) and the
white impact space give the viewer a shock, the following panel bores the reality in: Spidey is nearly folded after taking it.
He's retreated from active fighting and is supporting himself by leaning against the wall.
He's even seeing stars.
That punch hurt!

Pete's a fairly good and tough fighter himself; in the panel that follows he has shaken off enough damage to flip to safety ...

... almost. The very next panel after THAT has Kingpin already firmly gripping his ankles, ready to pull him off the wall. He thinks to himself how Kingpin is much faster than he realized.

Is that it? Or is it that, still being dazed from the effects of that folding haymaker, his reaction time is still a tad slower than normal?

It's ambiguous; either interpretation has support, but the scene illustrates how well the SERIES of artwork panels by Romita is what lends the full weight to any particular thing he draws.

Or maybe, just maybe, given that nearly EVERYTHING Romita draws is well-crafted, nothing usually stands out in isolation from anything else.

Anyway, that's John Romita, Sr.

Originally posted by -Pr-
This is something that I always felt Alex Ross was very bad at, personally.

Those who are good at it? Ivan Reis is solid, as is Ed Benes imo.


I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here, P.R., as in the post preceding yours the discussion was on how Kirby worked his magic by focusing disproportionately on the hands of his powerful characters.

Alex Ross, if he's the same person I'm thinking of, is known for watercolor and paint hyper-realism. By definition he's not going to exaggerate anatomy; he's going to depict it as accurately as possible.
He faces a very different set of challenges than the average comic artist.

I'll have to look up Ivan Reis. I can't think of anything I know of that he's done save for that promotional DC banner a year or two ago.
Think it was a slogan like "Holding the line at $2.99!" or some such? A promise to maintain price controls.
(DC has kept their word on that to a far greater extent than I thought they would, incidentally.)

I'll back you up directly on Ed Benes. At least on 1 showing.
My favorite Maxim elements-muted edition of you-know-who going against Amazo as the attachment to this post.

I'm considering, again, artists depicting literal hand-to-hand struggles probably have an advantage in making mention or getting showcased here over those that don't.

I'll search my "Many Happy Returns" collection for a shot that has no grappling that still communicates if time permits ...

I was speaking about the thread in general.

When Alex Ross paints, as beautiful as they are, I don't feel like there's much life or motion in his shots. When he paints, say, Superman throwing a punch, it looks like he painted a picture of someone that was standing in a punching pose, rather than actually throwing one.

Ivan Reis has worked on Action Comics, Green Lantern, the latest Aquaman series, and is now the current artist on Justice League.

Here's an example of Reis:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14905542_JusticeLeague_16_TheGroup-004.jpg

I'll post some of Benes in a bit.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Not quite sure I fully understand the concept of "negative space" as you and the Wikipedia writers are using the term. Using negative space involves reversing figure and ground (the goblet is a good example). With Kirby Dots (or Kirby Krackle, as it sometimes called), the idea is to use the dots -- initially figure -- to the extent where the distinction between figure and ground become blurred. At some point, the space left over by the abundance of dots becomes the figure and the dot mass becomes ground. If done correctly, the eye vascillates between the two (the brain can't decide which is figure and which is ground), and this dynamism adds to the energy of the drawing. Many artists don't achieve this: dots remain as figures, seldom transitioning into ground.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Kirby got his superman re-drawn to look more like Curt Swan's superman whenever he drew him except in Super Powers which IMO is a phucking crime. RIP King. Could've been worse: it could've been Wayne Boring's thick-waisted, short-thighed, big-eared Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
This is something that I always felt Alex Ross was very bad at, personally. Agreed. As you mention in a later post, even his action shots look posed. I do like his Wonder Woman, though. Not dainty; by looks alone not someone I'd wanna mess with.

She looks tough, but I always felt she wasn't beautiful enough to be Diana. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc...

Originally posted by -Pr-
She looks tough, but I always felt she wasn't beautiful enough to be Diana. She does look a bit "butchy", true, or at best, approaching a Plain Jane. It's a toughie getting that right balance between strength and beauty. Still, I'd submit.

I've always liked Ron Lim's battles.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/1.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/2.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/3.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/5.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/silversurfer198801810qn8.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/silversurfer198801813nr0.jpg

Andrea DiVito though is amazing at this. Every blast just envelops the opponent. Every punch hits with force.
Look at the fights in Stormbreaker, Annihilation, the Ragnarok arc, and when Heatclops burned WWH for example.

Originally posted by Mindship
She does look a bit "butchy", true, or at best, approaching a Plain Jane. It's a toughie getting that right balance between strength and beauty. Still, I'd submit.



Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I've always liked Ron Lim's battles.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/1.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/2.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/3.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/5.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights/In-Betweener/silversurfer198801813nr0.jpg

Andrea DiVito though is amazing at this. Every blast just envelops the opponent. Every punch hits with force.
Look at the fights in Stormbreaker, Annihilation, the Ragnarok arc, and when Heatclops burned WWH for example.

yeah, the art in that wwh mini was the only thing that got me through it.

(URL version.)


The following 6 entries are more or less the current leaders.

I sometimes cruise through KMC without being logged in.

Done that way, all the attachments become links that open up in separate tabs. Taking these entries in order and cycling through the tabs using the "ctrl"+"tab" emphasizes several of the points covered before.

For instance, the screen capture of Camille playfully showing off to her fans reinforces how Kirby is able to communicate strength and dominance, not by having his Gravi Guard actually striking and knocking Superman out, but by merely having Gravi make a fist in panel 1, and show that fist and solid forearm at Superman's throat in panel 2.

And it's possible to experiment and reveal other things that would go unnoticed with tabbed browsing. For instance, switching the order of Diana versus Amazo and having it PRECEDE Kara versus Silver Banshee, reveals that Wonder Woman is drawn more "straight up" or vertically than Kara is. Cycle quickly through the entire series of six in the following order: She Hulk to GraviGuard to Camille to Spider-man to Wonder Woman to Supergirl and back to this page and then on through the series once again. You will find Wonder Woman's near-vertical standing position makes her stand out like a sore thumb.

Switch the series back to the way I show at the beginning of this post, however.
You get no such jarring impression.
For near-vertical Wonder Woman versus Amazo, gives way to completely vertical She-Hulk jumping down onto that wooden signpost Haller is holding and smashing it, which the artist in the next panel of that same scan smoothly transitions into Haller grabbing She-Hulk to go on and bearhug her in the scan that follows THAT one.

Which subtly but amazingly illustrates that each of these 6 artists achieved at least some of their realism by always having their figures in heavily curved and/or "tilted" positions. Almost never is anyone standing straight up. Can you see this?
If you go through the "tabbed browsing" exercise I suggested, switching the places of Diana and Kara, you will.

Anyway it's fascinating to see what comparing these to each other in different media (computer graphics versus their original comic page representation) reveals about the techniques the masters used ...








1. Mike Vosburg. Man-Elephant (Manfred Haller of Haller Hydraulics) versus Jen Walters

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163300
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163301

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Savage She Hulk #17, Volume 1
Writer: David Anthony Kraft
Date: June 1981
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Savage_She-Hulk_Vol_1_17



2. Jack Kirby and Al Plastino. GraviG versus Superman

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163404

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Forever People #1, Volume 1
Writer: Jack Kirby
Inker: Vince Colletta
Date: March 1971
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Forever_People_Vol_1_1



3. Camille Burford. Camille Ford Flexing

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14165495



4. John Romita, Sr. Parker versus Fisk, Round 1.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14168440

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Title: "In the Clutches of The Kingpin!"
Source: Amazing Spider-Man #51, Volume 1
Writer: Stan Lee
Date: August 1967
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_51



5. Jamal Igle. Kara Zor-el versus Silver Banshee, Shea Stadium

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14164287

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Supergirl #34, Volume 5
Writer: Sterling Gates
Date: December 2008
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_34



6. Ed Benes. Wonder Woman versus Amazo, JLA Building

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Justice League of America #24, Volume 2
Writer: Dwayne McDuffie
Date: October 2008
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Justice_League_of_America_Vol_2_24

(Click-able link version.)


The following 6 entries are more or less the current leaders.

I sometimes cruise through KMC without being logged in.

Done that way, all the attachments become links that open up in separate tabs. Taking these entries in order and cycling through the tabs using the "ctrl"+"tab" emphasizes several of the points covered before.

For instance, the screen capture of Camille playfully showing off to her fans reinforces how Kirby is able to communicate strength and dominance, not by having his Gravi Guard actually striking and knocking Superman out, but by merely having Gravi make a fist in panel 1, and show that fist and solid forearm at Superman's throat in panel 2.

And it's possible to experiment and reveal other things that would go unnoticed with tabbed browsing. For instance, switching the order of Diana versus Amazo and having it PRECEDE Kara versus Silver Banshee, reveals that Wonder Woman is drawn more "straight up" or vertically than Kara is. Cycle quickly through the entire series of six in the following order: She Hulk to GraviGuard to Camille to Spider-man to Wonder Woman to Supergirl and back to this page and then on through the series once again. You will find Wonder Woman's near-vertical standing position makes her stand out like a sore thumb.

Switch the series back to the way I show at the beginning of this post, however.
You get no such jarring impression.
For near-vertical Wonder Woman versus Amazo, gives way to completely vertical She-Hulk jumping down onto that wooden signpost Haller is holding and smashing it, which the artist in the next panel of that same scan smoothly transitions into Haller grabbing She-Hulk to go on and bearhug her in the scan that follows THAT one.

Which subtly but amazingly illustrates that each of these 6 artists achieved at least some of their realism by always having their figures in heavily curved and/or "tilted" positions. Almost never is anyone standing straight up. Can you see this?
If you go through the "tabbed browsing" exercise I suggested, switching the places of Diana and Kara, you will.

Anyway it's fascinating to see what comparing these to each other in different media (computer graphics versus their original comic page representation) reveals about the techniques the masters used ...








1. Mike Vosburg. Man-Elephant (Manfred Haller of Haller Hydraulics) versus Jen Walters

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163300
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163301

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Source: Savage She Hulk #17, Volume 1
Writer: David Anthony Kraft
Date: June 1981
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http://marvel.wikia.com/Savage_She-Hulk_Vol_1_17



2. Jack Kirby and Al Plastino. GraviG versus Superman

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14163404

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Source: Forever People #1, Volume 1
Writer: Jack Kirby
Inker: Vince Colletta
Date: March 1971
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Forever_People_Vol_1_1



3. Camille Burford. Camille Ford Flexing

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14165495



4. John Romita, Sr. Parker versus Fisk, Round 1.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14168440

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Story Title: "In the Clutches of The Kingpin!"
Source: Amazing Spider-Man #51, Volume 1
Writer: Stan Lee
Date: August 1967
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http://marvel.wikia.com/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_51



5. Jamal Igle. Kara Zor-el versus Silver Banshee, Shea Stadium

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14164287

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Source: Supergirl #34, Volume 5
Writer: Sterling Gates
Date: December 2008
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_34



6. Ed Benes. Wonder Woman versus Amazo, JLA Building

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14168482

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Source: Justice League of America #24, Volume 2
Writer: Dwayne McDuffie
Date: October 2008
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Justice_League_of_America_Vol_2_24

Came across the following this morning.

I get the feeling that I've posted it somewhere before now, but I cannot right now remember where.

Fits in with the overall theme of the thread as far as MY impressions go; not sure if it will do the same for others, which is part of the reason I'm posting it. Part of a miniature 3 scan series ...

The artist here is Gil Kane.

If the exchange seems out-of-character for Peter Parker here, note that this is Amazing Spider-Man #122, the issue where Pete's longtime romantic interest, the most serious one at this time was MURDERED by one of his deadliest enemies. This was something that seldom if ever happened in comics at the time and was quite revolutionary for its time.

At any rate, storywise, Pete was absolutely devasted by the loss.
He is angrily responding to the red-head lady in this scene because she has a reputation for being a party girl, go-go-girl all the time.
The lady was such a consummate character of this type that she could come off, perhaps even be, callous and cruel.

Superficial to this point if I remember right, but at a cross roads moment. Typical way of people like this in comics, protagonist makes a declaration: "I don't need or want people like you in my life, especially not now", and that person leaves.

And such must be what many, many facts expected ...

Not this time.

The Marvel writer chose to make this a moment of true resolve and true character growth.


No 70s story-standard cliche.
No party girl moving on to the next fun happening.
No character realizing "too late" that life requires confronting jugular issues when people you care about are hurting.

Mary Jane recognizes that Peter is in emotional pain, perhaps the greatest in his life, and that he is not saying what he means.

This is not the time for Mary Jane to take insult.
This is not the time for her to misunderstand.

Pete desperately needs a friend at this time, and that, ultimately, is what Mary Jane is.

Note how with ONE action sans dialogue the artist powerfully conveys that message:

Current Champion.


I'd actually forgotten this submission before now ... perhaps because it doesn't feature immediate and direct grappling?

It's an awesome and visceral thing in its own class just the same.

If it doesn't take overall prize, I might have to give it its own category just to give the max number of people the chance to see it.

Kudos to the member or members of the creative team responsible for simulating "lighting" effects here.
Fairly certain this is what Mindship has been trying to relate to me in terms of "negative space" usage AND Kirby dots.
Either that or someone invented something all their own here.

I'm not sure; I've only heard the effect described once, but I think the art team may have been using a technique called a "color hold"?

Whatever they used, I think most will agree ... it's impressive!


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Source: Incredible Hulk #607, Volume 1
Writer: Greg Pak
Penciller: Paul Pelletier
Date: February 17, 2010
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http://marvel.wikia.com/Incredible_Hulk_Vol_1_607

Originally posted by Mindship


Funny thing is, if you look at pics carefully, you find that his depiction of muscle anatomy was terrible!



If you want to talk bad anatomy, re-examine the current Kingpin submission.

Give attention to Spider-Man's hand on the wall.

Keep in mind it is his RIGHT hand that is being drawn contacting the wall.

You can draw a left hand like that.
Spread your own left hand down on a desk to confirm.

I'll give a bonus e-link to anyone who can show me how you get your opposite hand in that configuration, though.

As with Kirby, however, Romita, Sr. was interested most in conveying a sense of action, energy, and perspective, and THAT I'd say he succeeded at, whether he did, in truth, draw people correctly or not.

Came across the following the other day.

Almost certain it is Kirby, though I haven't really had much chance to look up any ref info for it yet ...

Paul Pelletier.

KMC changed its format, for whatever reason, so that its own image host service now only serves the smallest fraction of people.

It's both amazing and disconcerting to see how time flies in here, and what realities are affected by time's passage ...

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31601623_image.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31601624_image.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31601625_image.jpg

Previous artist, at least the one responsible for the pencils, is Jack Abel.
The submission is from Superman Family #190, a magazine printed in the late 1970s. Seems to be something about that era ...


I happened upon the following while searching for art information credits.
Seems like a good resource; supplies a chronological list that expands to give a synopsis and ref info wherever the reader clicks:

http://www.superwomenmania.com/supergirltl/list.html


http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/31601892_image.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mzyNrHs.jpg

/thread. My back knots up just looking at this scan.

https://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/34171518_image.jpg


Source: Superman #6 (Nu52)
Writer: George Perez
Penciller: Nicola Scott

Nicola Scott (unmentioned before now?) is apparently part of a husband and wife team that produces comics. In the above shot, Nicola, taking the role of illustrator, presents a Supergirl who conveys a remarkable quality of physical power. The most obvious contributing feature is probably the extraordinary development Kara's calves are given here, to say little of the sculpted appearance of the rest of her. It is striking despite the convention of superheroes overall being fit because Kara is only 16 and rarely drawn like that. If artists in the past used aerialists and circus performers for models, Nicola seems to have Crossfit athletes or gymnasts as hers.
She doesn't seem to be thinking "ordinary" suitable in any sense of the word.

At least for Kara. The other element that makes Kara stand out, besides the dynamic pose, is the contrasting figure of the man she is carrying, whose rounded features lack for any real sense of athleticism.
The untucked shirt magnifies the impression of this being a rather hapless slob, utterly powerless to save himself in the situation he finds himself in.




https://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/34171519_image.jpg

This second submission? Unfortunately, I don't recall exactly where this is from.
Maybe I'll get lucky and Galan will see this post. I know it's recent, and from a storyline where someone is able to get near-complete control of Darth Vader either telekinetically or electrically, hence the dialogue. I posted this because the artist for this has done a remarkable job with the play of lighting. I'm not actually sure if the penciller alone can take credit for this; the effect probably depends on the colorist here more than with any other submission. Effectively, he, she, or they has/have captured a "photo" of something inherently communicative of "feel". To see this is to be holding a vinyl/plastic replica of the Darth Vader helmet in your hands. The finger, drawn ever -so -slightly distorting the material as its owner presses down, cements the deal.

Kudos to the art team.

Eduardo Risso did a fantastic job in 100 Bullets.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/mistersinister84/100%20Bullets/100bullets03218.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/mistersinister84/100%20Bullets/100bullets03219.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/mistersinister84/100%20Bullets/100bullets03220.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/mistersinister84/100%20Bullets/100bullets03221.jpg

This one by Starlin....oops, I meant Astner... has some good solid work , particularly in its use of a motif.