The better villain: Voldemort or Palpatine ?

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quanchi112
Who is the better villain and why. Cite specific examples to support your argument.

The_Tempest
Palpatine.

Better looking and ruled the galaxy.

/thread

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Palpatine.

Better looking and ruled the galaxy.

/thread Better looking.....bwahahahahahahaha. Bellatrix wanted Voldemort's nuts. No woman wanted Palpatine's old decrepit ass. The scope of Star wars is greater so ruling the galaxy really isn't an answer imo.

The_Tempest
Bellatrix wanted Voldemort's nuts in the books.

Meanwhile, the levies broke in Natalie Portman's underwear, flooding her nether regions with desire when Palpatine whispered lasciviously into her ear in The Phantom Menace.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bellatrix wanted Voldemort's nuts in the books.

Meanwhile, the levies broke in Natalie Portman's underwear, flooding her nether regions with desire when Palpatine whispered lasciviously into her ear in The Phantom Menace. You could tell she did in the movies as well.

Honestly though Voldemort seemed like one of the biggest baddest villains in film history. Do you honestly think Palpatine is a better villain ?

Robtard
LoL, this a joke?

Palpatine.

His plans succeeded and they were galactic in scale. His cunning methodical nature > anything Voldermort did. Voldermort couldn't even take out one man-boy wizard permanently.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, this a joke?

Palpatine.

His plans succeeded and they were galactic in scale. His cunning methodical nature > anything Voldermort did. Voldermort couldn't even take one one man-boy wizard permanently. His plans succeeded due to luck. Windu defeated him. He's lucky Anakin showed up and interfered when he did. Palpatine had to hide in the shadows because he wasn't strong enough to come out in the open.

Voldemort scared the entire wizarding world. Palpatine needed to use troops to take his fellow brethren by surprise. Palpatine didn't scare the jedi personally. Voldemort scared his brethren and he stood out as the greatest most powerful force ever in a world of wizards.

Palpatine also was taken by surprise by Yoda despite having a galactic army at his behest. He also luckily saved Vader who was spared. In closing a lot of luck had to take place for his plans to succeed. In the end he got tossed down a shaft by his Vader. Where the hell was precog on that one, roberto ?

Due to his mothers actions, Dumbledore's actions, his own soul being in the boy as a horcrux, etc.

Robtard
Your need to constantly downplay and speak nonsense over the character you don't like while fanboying the one you do, doesn't make your arguments logically sound on those merits alone.

But you can think Voldermort is the better villain, no worries. Happy hunting.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
Your need to constantly downplay and speak nonsense over the character you don't like while fanboying the one you do, doesn't make your arguments logically sound on those merits alone.

But you can think Voldermort is the better villain, no worries. Happy hunting. My points are all clear and indisputable. Palpatine hid in the shadows and then took over the senate and demonized jedi only after Anakin saved his life. He begged for his life to Windu. Like I said if we look at pivotal moments he was lucky time and time again. Palpatine hid from the jedi because he knew they'd annihilate him. Upon Voldemort's return the balance of power shifted. The Aurors and the Minister saw him at the end of his duel against Albus. Look at the look of fear on his face. That showed the level of fear and power which overtook an entire world in which existed the same abilities.

Palpatine used an army to enact his plans and hid behind the force of a galaxy. He put himself in a vulnerable position despite having that type of manpower dedicated to his will shows a real lack of foresight and stupidity. Palpatine also didn't really go up against any really wise foes like Voldemort had to deal with either.

Robtard
I see the problem, once again you're utterly stuck on "can beat people up" as being the pinnacle of what makes a great villain. That's your childish and simplistic point of view and it's your loss in the end. No worries here. smile

Schemes that conquer a galaxy > failing to conquer Hoqwarts. smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
I see the problem, once again you're utterly stuck on "can beat people up" as being the pinnacle of what makes a great villain. That's your childish and simplistic point of view and it's your loss in the end. No worries here. smile

Schemes that conquer a galaxy > failing to conquer Hoqwarts. smile I guess begging for your life makes someone an awesome villain. My point is Voldemort's peers feared him. Palpatine's peers didn't fear him whereas he feared the jedi. Palpatine is a villain who hides and does his dirty business in the shadows. Voldemort can come out into the sun and say here I am. Completely different. Voldemort scared an entire world of his peers whereas Palpatine hid in the shadows from his until he luckily survived after being dominated by Windu to have an army cheapshot the remaining jedi.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you honestly think Palpatine is a better villain ?

yup

Robtard
Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess begging for your life makes someone an awesome villain. My point is Voldemort's peers feared him. Palpatine's peers didn't fear him whereas he feared the jedi. Palpatine is a villain who hides and does his dirty business in the shadows. Voldemort can come out into the sun and say here I am. Completely different. Voldemort scared an entire world of his peers whereas Palpatine hid in the shadows from his until he luckily survived after being dominated by Windu to have an army cheapshot the remaining jedi.


All of the Jedi counsel was fearful of the Darkside, that aside.

That's just a rewording of "can beat people up" as being your zenith of what makes a great villain. Your loss.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
yup Why ?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
All of the Jedi counsel was fearful of the Darkside, that aside.

That's just a rewording of "can beat people up" as being your zenith of what makes a great villain. Your loss. Part of being a great villain is instilling fear in the opposition. Yes, they are fearful of the dark side just not Palpatine. They went right at him and Windu broke him. Begging for your life doesn't really instill fear from your opponent.

Voldemort had the Minister of defense shitting his pants at the mere sight of him.

Accept defeat gratefully for once in your life, robbie.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by quanchi112
Why ?

I believe he's better acted, more interesting, and more effective as a villain.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I believe he's better acted, more interesting, and more effective as a villain. Better acted than Ralph Fiennes ? Subjective so I won't push that along with more interesting.

I think the more effective part has to do with luck at key pivotal moments though.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by quanchi112
Better acted than Ralph Fiennes ? Subjective so I won't push that along with more interesting.

thumb up

Originally posted by quanchi112
I think the more effective part has to do with luck at key pivotal moments though.

Not really, but ok.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
thumb up



Not really, but ok. I disagree on the better acted query but meh. I think both actors were masterful.

How else can you describe his survival at the hands of Windu ? He left himself totally open after revealing himself to Anakin.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by quanchi112
How else can you describe his survival at the hands of Windu ? He left himself totally open after revealing himself to Anakin.

Using evidence from the film alone, it's pretty obvious that he was leading Anakin into an elaborate trap. He telepathically lures Anakin from the Council Chambers (check the scene where he and Padme are exchanging teary-eyed glances from across the cityscape) and loses right as he walks through the front door.

Which would also explain how he's able to stalemate the more powerful Yoda later in the duel.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Using evidence from the film alone, it's pretty obvious that he was leading Anakin into an elaborate trap. He telepathically lures Anakin from the Council Chambers (check the scene where he and Padme are exchanging teary-eyed glances from across the cityscape) and loses right as he walks through the front door.

Which would also explain how he's able to stalemate the more powerful Yoda later in the duel. That still doesn't 'change the fact Windu could have killed him prior to Anakin intervening.

I also think he's more powerful than Yoda. Yoda seems far more agile and one could argue more formidable but I wouldn't. The point is he tries to leave and avoid a confrontation with Yoda and is forced into one all the same. The guy rules a galaxy at this point he should never have left himself this unguarded.

Robtard
Originally posted by quanchi112
Part of being a great villain is instilling fear in the opposition. Yes, they are fearful of the dark side just not Palpatine. They went right at him and Windu broke him. Begging for your life doesn't really instill fear from your opponent.

Voldemort had the Minister of defense shitting his pants at the mere sight of him.

Accept defeat gratefully for once in your life, robbie.

That is incorrect actually. Palpatine was the was the physical embodiment of the Darkside at the time. Mace took 3 other Jedi masters with him once it became clear who the Sith Lord was, cos he knew better and he knew what was at stake. You don't have to cower in free to be fearful. That aside.

You're still stuck on "can beat people up" as being the apex for what makes a great villain, simply juggling around and trying to reword it won't change that. Your loss, pal. There's so much more to great villains than big muscles and such.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
That is incorrect actually. Palpatine was the was the physical embodiment of the Darkside at the time. Mace took 3 other Jedi masters with him once it became clear who the Sith Lord was, cos he knew better and he knew what was at stake. You don't have to cower in free to be fearful. That aside.

You're still stuck on "can beat people up" as being the apex for what makes a great villain, simply juggling around and trying to reword it won't change that. Your loss, pal. Palpatine used the dark side he wasn't the dark side given form. Chill out, nerd.

No, I am stuck on instilling great fear which is what villains generally do. Palpatine was more afraid of the jedi than they were of him. Voldemort owned the wizarding world.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by quanchi112
That still doesn't 'change the fact Windu could have killed him prior to Anakin intervening.

That's not a fact at all, bro.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I also think he's more powerful than Yoda. Yoda seems far more agile and one could argue more formidable but I wouldn't. The point is he tries to leave and avoid a confrontation with Yoda and is forced into one all the same. The guy rules a galaxy at this point he should never have left himself this unguarded.

...Really? A moment of lax security consigns Sidious to the shallow end of the villain pool? Well it's not like Voldemort ever committed a tactical error ever. haermm

Robtard
Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine used the dark side he wasn't the dark side given form. Chill out, nerd.

No, I am stuck on instilling great fear which is what villains generally do. Palpatine was more afraid of the jedi than they were of him. Voldemort owned the wizarding world.

Derp. That aside.

That's like the 3rd or 4th time you're trying to reword your "can beat people up" as being the summit of what makes a great villain. It's still your loss.

ares834
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am stuck on instilling great fear which is what villains generally do. Palpatine was more afraid of the jedi than they were of him. Voldemort owned the wizarding world.

So what makes a villain great is their power rather than their motivations, character, and depth?

erm

Anyway, based solely on movies I would say Palpatine is the better villain.

But with the books, Voldemort takes the cake.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by ares834
But with the books, Voldemort takes the cake.

Voldemort's gross stupidity in the books precludes that, but whatevz.

ares834
What did he do that was incredibly stupid?

Anyway, I love his back-story from the books that is, sadly, only alluded to in the movies.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by ares834
What did he do that was incredibly stupid?

Gloat and not kill Harry in The Chamber of Secrets & The Goblet of Fire, his retarded pursuit of the Elder Wand, his careless disregard of his Horcruxes, his lax use of Occulumency in Hallows, enabling Harry to read his mind, his dismissing Bellatrix when she tried to warn him of Dumbledore's approach in The Order of the Phoenix, etc. Each of them colossal and tremendous mistakes that caused tremendous blowback.

Originally posted by ares834
Anyway, I love his back-story from the books that is sadly only alluded to in the movies.

Yeah, good stuff.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not a fact at all, bro.



...Really? A moment of lax security consigns Sidious to the shallow end of the villain pool? Well it's not like Voldemort ever committed a tactical error ever. haermm Windu had him dead to rights. The only reason he didn't kill him is because he waited and Anakin intervened. Palpatine had already been effectively disarmed.

The guy had an entire galaxy backing him. Voldemort had a few hundred wizards give or take and some giants at his disposal.

Voldemort never really dropped the ball outside his obsession with Harry. That was it. Palpatine's errors were unforgivable. The manner in which he died catching him by surprise was awful.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
Derp. That aside.

That's like the 3rd or 4th time you're trying to reword your "can beat people up" as being the summit of what makes a great villain. It's still your loss. No, that isn't it. Pretty much all of these wizards can kill each other with the kill curse but Voldemort had the deatheaters by force of will to his beck and call out of pure fear. They were scared shitless in a room with him. What he said went. he didn't have to appeal to the masses or disguise himself such as Palpatine consistently did throughout his life.

Voldemort's pivotal moments weren't made possible by sheer luck such as Palpatine.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ares834
So what makes a villain great is their power rather than their motivations, character, and depth?

erm

Anyway, based solely on movies I would say Palpatine is the better villain.

But with the books, Voldemort takes the cake. No, not at all. I am saying there are a multitude of factors which determine a great villain. Voldemort took magic to it's limits. The manner in which he created his horcruxes was superb. The guy was a psycho and valued no one's opinion save his own.

I also think Voldemort was greater based on his competition or his rival(Dumbledore) being far better than anything Palpatine had to deal with.

Black bolt z
As the better Villian, I don't know, as I never saw nor read Harry Potter. However, I have to imagine i'd be difficult to beat a dude who ruled a galaxy wide empire.

KingD19
Palpatine is still considered one of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Up there with the likes of Darth Revan, Darth Bane, Emperor Vitiate, and Darth Krayt.

For years his Force Influence in the Dark Side was so all encompassing that Yoda and Windu, without a doubt the most powerful Jedi of the time were unable to see any move he made. And if you want to talk about powerful, he could create Force Hyperstorms in space so powerful they decimated entire fleets in moments. Fleets full of Star Destroyer class vessels.

Nobody came close to figuring out the entire clone army was his idea. No one even suspected.

His control over Anakin from the moment he became his mentor of sorts was so complete, that even when Anakin knew how bad he'd messed up in following him, he continued to do it out of fear and shame because Palpatine had left no way for him to redeem himself. It took the near death of his son to break his hold on Vader.

He engineered the entire Republic/Seperatist War so he could set up that moment when all the Jedi were vulnerable. He waited years so they had absolute trust in their clone troops and would never think they'd be betrayed. And then he cut them down. He even had the leaders of the Seperatists, people who were completely loyal to him, killed by Anakin because they were aliens(he hates aliens) and he didn't want any threats.

He thought of everything, which is why he ruled for so long. He even came back several times after his death at the hands of Vader.

He's a literal galaxy wide threat, while Voldemort threatened a country. That's a biiig difference, and Palpatine was a lot more cunning than Voldemort, who just got a big following because he was strong and their were racists in the wizard community who thought his ways were the right ways. He was brute strength to Palpatine's Cunning. And it's obvious who did better. Voldemort never ruled anything, people were scared of him, so what? Palpatine ruled the entire Galaxy for decades and had the entire galaxy in fear, especially every race that wasn't human or some form of really similar humanoid.

Darth Martin
Palpatine had fine apprentices in Vader, Tyranus, and Maul.

Riddle had Quirrell.

KingD19
He also had Mara Jade as his hand, and her effectiveness was legendary.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
Palpatine is still considered one of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Up there with the likes of Darth Revan, Darth Bane, Emperor Vitiate, and Darth Krayt.

For years his Force Influence in the Dark Side was so all encompassing that Yoda and Windu, without a doubt the most powerful Jedi of the time were unable to see any move he made. And if you want to talk about powerful, he could create Force Hyperstorms in space so powerful they decimated entire fleets in moments. Fleets full of Star Destroyer class vessels.

Nobody came close to figuring out the entire clone army was his idea. No one even suspected.

His control over Anakin from the moment he became his mentor of sorts was so complete, that even when Anakin knew how bad he'd messed up in following him, he continued to do it out of fear and shame because Palpatine had left no way for him to redeem himself. It took the near death of his son to break his hold on Vader.

He engineered the entire Republic/Seperatist War so he could set up that moment when all the Jedi were vulnerable. He waited years so they had absolute trust in their clone troops and would never think they'd be betrayed. And then he cut them down. He even had the leaders of the Seperatists, people who were completely loyal to him, killed by Anakin because they were aliens(he hates aliens) and he didn't want any threats.

He thought of everything, which is why he ruled for so long. He even came back several times after his death at the hands of Vader.

He's a literal galaxy wide threat, while Voldemort threatened a country. That's a biiig difference, and Palpatine was a lot more cunning than Voldemort, who just got a big following because he was strong and their were racists in the wizard community who thought his ways were the right ways. He was brute strength to Palpatine's Cunning. And it's obvious who did better. Voldemort never ruled anything, people were scared of him, so what? Palpatine ruled the entire Galaxy for decades and had the entire galaxy in fear, especially every race that wasn't human or some form of really similar humanoid. That's eu nonsense. This is the movie forum. Quit embarrassing yourself, fanboy.

It works both ways. The guy lost despite an entire galaxy backing him. That's awful since he put himself in the position to be killed. That's not intelligence it's stupidity.

KingD19
EU Nonsense? The only EU things I mentioned were other Sith Lords, and him coming back to life.

You're bringing up Harry Potter book stuff, which is EU compared to the movies is it not? It's another medium where things don't happen exactly as they did in the movies and vice versa.

My points are all valid. Sidious only lost because he put Vader in a position where he could finally break free from the Dark Side programming due to the love for his son and his well-being overriding the Dark Side influence.

If anybody's a fanboy it's you with how hard you wank Voldemort's nose.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
EU Nonsense? The only EU things I mentioned were other Sith Lords, and him coming back to life.

You're bringing up Harry Potter book stuff, which is EU compared to the movies is it not? It's another medium where things don't happen exactly as they did in the movies and vice versa.

My points are all valid. Sidious only lost because he put Vader in a position where he could finally break free from the Dark Side programming due to the love for his son and his well-being overriding the Dark Side influence.

If anybody's a fanboy it's you with how hard you wank Voldemort's nose. I am only bringing up movie facts. I have never read the books. You're not quick on the uptake.

When did he create force hyperstorms in space in the movies ? Did you already forget what you posted a day or so ago ?

Sidious was beaten and horrible scarred by Windu. That's not intelligence that's called submission. What' even funnier is Palpatine chose to out himself setting himself up for that scene.

Palpatine is good at sneaking around in the shadows because let's face it he got owned in a battle and tried running from Yoda.

Voldemort is clearly his superior. Palpatine would probably try to flee if the two met.

Voldemort

ares834
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Gloat and not kill Harry in The Chamber of Secrets & The Goblet of Fire,

These are big mistakes. But Palpatine does the same shit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his retarded pursuit of the Elder Wand,

I really don't see this as a mistake. After all, using any other wand against Harry would have been ineffective; he needed the best.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his careless disregard of his Horcruxes,

What do you mean by this? The majority of his Horcruxes were very well guarded.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his lax use of Occulumency in Hallows, enabling Harry to read his mind,

Yes, this was a mistake. However, I would argue it was due not to stupidity but rather lack of ability.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his dismissing Bellatrix when she tried to warn him of Dumbledore's approach in The Order of the Phoenix,

Don't remember this happening, but it defiantly sounds like a big mistake.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Each of them colossal and tremendous mistakes that caused tremendous blowback.

Fair enough. However, not of them seem to be incredibly stupid to me.

KingD19
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am only bringing up movie facts. I have never read the books. You're not quick on the uptake.

When did he create force hyperstorms in space in the movies ? Did you already forget what you posted a day or so ago ?

Sidious was beaten and horrible scarred by Windu. That's not intelligence that's called submission. What' even funnier is Palpatine chose to out himself setting himself up for that scene.

Palpatine is good at sneaking around in the shadows because let's face it he got owned in a battle and tried running from Yoda.

Voldemort is clearly his superior. Palpatine would probably try to flee if the two met.

Voldemort

Okay. I mentioned the hyperstorm and forgot about it. Whoopde doo. Does that negate my argument? No.

Mace Windu was probably the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at the time of that fight, and notice how Sidious blasted him hundreds of feet out into open space. He could have done that, but he wanted Anaking completely on his side, which is why he lopped off Mace's arm.

And Palpatine got owned by Yoda? Because the way I remember it, Yoda lost, left with Bail Organa, and went into hiding for the next 20 or so years.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
Okay. I mentioned the hyperstorm and forgot about it. Whoopde doo. Does that negate my argument? No.

Mace Windu was probably the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at the time of that fight, and notice how Sidious blasted him hundreds of feet out into open space. He could have done that, but he wanted Anaking completely on his side, which is why he lopped off Mace's arm.

And Palpatine got owned by Yoda? Because the way I remember it, Yoda lost, left with Bail Organa, and went into hiding for the next 20 or so years. It shows off how fanboyish you are. You also made up me citing the books. I will add lying the list.

Palpatine blasting a one armed defenseless human with force lighting isn't impressive at all. No, he couldn't have done that since Windu sent back his lightning onto Palp's face.

I never said he got owned by Yoda. I said he tried running. He did. You don't understand simple words and sentences so please calm down and have a parent with you for your next post.

Yoda didn't kill him so effectively he failed but Palp still tried running because he's a coward.

Voldemort would destroy him as he tried to flee.

KingD19
Originally posted by quanchi112
It shows off how fanboyish you are. You also made up me citing the books. I will add lying the list.

Palpatine blasting a one armed defenseless human with force lighting isn't impressive at all. No, he couldn't have done that since Windu sent back his lightning onto Palp's face.

I never said he got owned by Yoda. I said he tried running. He did. You don't understand simple words and sentences so please calm down and have a parent with you for your next post.

Yoda didn't kill him so effectively he failed but Palp still tried running because he's a coward.

Voldemort would destroy him as he tried to flee.

I'm a lying fanboy now. Wow, that's rich coming from you of all people.

And Windu sent his lightning back with his lightsaber, which isn't that impressive considering it was done before. Considering Windu knew Yoda was better than him, and Sidious took it to Yoda, the evidence that he could have trounced Mace if he wanted is there. But it was also obvious he wanted to be put in a position of helplessness and put on a show for Anakin. It's why he was denouncing the Jedi and claiming how evil they were when Anakin came in.

And everything he did was according to his plan. He didn't run from Yoda. It was all a strategic plan.

But I will ask you to refrain from openly insulting me, as it's starting to piss me off.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm a lying fanboy now. Wow, that's rich coming from you of all people.

And Windu sent his lightning back with his lightsaber, which isn't that impressive considering it was done before. Considering Windu knew Yoda was better than him, and Sidious took it to Yoda, the evidence that he could have trounced Mace if he wanted is there. But it was also obvious he wanted to be put in a position of helplessness and put on a show for Anakin. It's why he was denouncing the Jedi and claiming how evil they were when Anakin came in.

And everything he did was according to his plan. He didn't run from Yoda. It was all a strategic plan.

But I will ask you to refrain from openly insulting me, as it's starting to piss me off. You lied. You said I cited the books. Provide the quotes or else concede to being a liar.

You said Palpatine could zap him any time he wanted cept he did try. He only zapped himself because he was beaten. He then begged for his life. Please don't kill me. He's a joke. No, it's clear he used the situation to his benefit but the guy isn't all knowing. He was lucky to survive. Anakin saved his life.

Yoda calls him on it. Palpatine didn't know Yoda was even alive. It's right in the films. You claiming he knew was coming when he admitted he wasn't even aware he continued to live. I saw the movies. Yoda found the opportunity to strike but Palpatine's strategy of create as much distance as you can from your opponent bought him the time to wait for help to arrive.

Mercy is for the weak.


In which film did it state Yoda was better than Windu ?

Ascendancy
Why do you even start these threads?

Actually, I should asks why anyone even tries to debate with you. You ignore logic and ride Potter's nuts from thread to thread. We get it: you think wizards are the ultimate and no one shall ever surpass their prowess regardless of the facts.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why do you even start these threads?

Actually, I should asks why anyone even tries to debate with you. You ignore logic and ride Potter's nuts from thread to thread. We get it: you think wizards are the ultimate and no one shall ever surpass their prowess regardless of the facts. Cry me a river you woman and actually tell me where my logic sucks because coming into a thread and crying is weak.

I have given my reasoning as to why Voldemort is a greater villain than Palpatine. Now explain why you think I am wrong or just leave with your tail in between your legs.

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