The Time-Warped Battles Pt. 1

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Sybrael

Sybrael
Someone needs to acknowledge this--it's not a story, it's just the title for my versus threads.

NemeBro
Dude get a load of the cans on Bastila.

NewGuy01
Team 1 stomps hard.

Maul easily takes down Malak
Savage easily takes down Bandon
Maulkiller easily takes down Bastila

This is barely a fight.

NTJack0
Bandon stomps, what did Maul do to you, op?

Pwned
Seriously, Bandon can't be stopped. I mean, he pushed that officer into a COMPUTER!!!!

Zampanó
Is maulkiller like the protagonist of your Fanfiction or something?

Guys, that's not canon is it?

SebastianisI
That is not Bastilla that is girl from Dark Alliance.

Yeah who is guy in 3rd picture?

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by SebastianisI
That is not Bastilla that is girl from Dark Alliance. What?

S_W_LeGenD
Malak, Bandon and Bastilla are among the most underrated characters of the mythos. Just because Revan defeated them; it is assumed that every other notable character would be able to do the same. The irony.

In understand that none of these characters are much explored in terms of Force powers but this is the issue of storytelling and game mechanics. Given their reputation, if these characters are featured in cinematics and/or in other high budget mediums; I am sure that they will be impressive.

S_W_LeGenD
Darth Bandon:

"There he embraced the dark side and the way of the Sith with every fiber of his being. His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself." (Databank)

"Darth Bandon proved himself to be an excellent choice. Many Jedi fell beneath the blade of his lightsaber. Some in the Sith hierarchy wondered if Bandon would someday rise to challenge Malak for the mantle of Dark Lord, for that was the way of the Sith: the strong must rule, and when the apprentice surpasses the Master, the Master must fall." (Databank)

Darth Malak:

"Because they were known heroes of the Mandalorian Wars, many Jedi Knights regarded "the revanchist" and his former apprentice Alek as champions, and eagerly joined their cause." (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

NOTE: Reputation does not comes out of thin air; it is earned with achievements.

"Or that they would discover relics created by the pre-Republic Rakata civilization as well as numerous Sith artifacts, and used these in combination with their dark side powers to very nearly crush the Republic?" (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

"The Council had decided that the amnesiac Revan, reconditioned with a new identity as a Force-using soldier of the Republic, would be their best chance to defeat Malak. And they were right." (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

NOTE: Revan was the only Jedi in the Galaxy; capable of stopping Malak in his best days.

Q99
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Team 1 stomps hard.

Maul easily takes down Malak

Gotta disagree there, Malak was a highly experienced sith with a lot of power. I'd say it'd be a nice fight.

Q99
Originally posted by SebastianisI

Yeah who is guy in 3rd picture?

This is Maulkiller, and Maulkiller is real... but is pretty much just a what-if. He was bonus content for TFUII that came with some preorders, a clone made of combined Galen Marek and Maul DNA.

He was apparently strong, but died shortly due to his mixed nature driving him nuts. You can't really debate him much, but he's probably about as strong as a Galen Marek clone in a body more like Maul's, but with physical and mental problems that are a liability.

He's an optional avatar, meaning his 'storyline,' if you could call it that, is exactly that of TFUII's main character.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Q99
Gotta disagree there, Malak was a highly experienced sith with a lot of power. I'd say it'd be a nice fight.
If this helps:

Darth Malak was able to handle the trio of Carth, Bastilla and Revan simultaneously aboard Leviathan.

The Sith Lord in question was smoothly ruling an entire Sith Empire after the capture of Revan; it is not possible to perform this task without wielding enormous power.

Maul is good but he isn't this damn good.

Originally posted by Pwned
Seriously, Bandon can't be stopped. I mean, he pushed that officer into a COMPUTER!!!!
I think that he did this in excitement after Malak chose him for the mission to assassinate Revan. stick out tongue

On a serious note, Bandon was indeed a formidable warrior.

Lord Lucien
None of what you quoted actually demonstrates how he was a formidable warrior.

Rookwood
A Star Forge-enhanced Malak would likely squash Maul like a bug.

Darth Malak by himself would find Maul a tough opponent, but still kill him.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
None of what you quoted actually demonstrates how he was a formidable warrior.
This information;

"The bloodthirsty Darth Bandon wastes no time in building a double-bladed Sith lightsaber resembling that of Exar Kun, using it to impale a score of his former Jedi allies." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

and this information;

"Darth Bandon proved himself to be an excellent choice. Many Jedi fell beneath the blade of his lightsaber." (Databank)

- suggests that Bandon was a capable warrior; skilled in the arts of lightsaber combat.

------

This information;

"Unleashing his cruelty within the Sith hierarchy, he immediately sparks interest from Darth Malak." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

and this information;

"His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself." (Databank)

and this information;

"Growing arrogant, Bandon inevitably sets his sights on Malak's mantle." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

- suggests that Bandon was strong in the Force.

------

No rocket science here.

SebastianisI
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What?

The girl in the picture was from Baldurs Gate not KotOR.

Q99
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this helps:

Darth Malak was able to handle the trio of Carth, Bastilla and Revan simultaneously aboard Leviathan.

The Sith Lord in question was smoothly ruling an entire Sith Empire after the capture of Revan; it is not possible to perform this task without wielding enormous power.

Maul is good but he isn't this damn good.

Yea. Malak wasn't the greatest Top Sith Lord... but he still made it to the top, which is no small task and shouldn't be underestimated.

Mizukage Yoda
I do actually feel like Legend has a point. Malak is pretty damned underestimated. Probably around Vader level on the Star Forge, and Revan being slightly above.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This information;

"The bloodthirsty Darth Bandon wastes no time in building a double-bladed Sith lightsaber resembling that of Exar Kun, using it to impale a score of his former Jedi allies." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

and this information;

"Darth Bandon proved himself to be an excellent choice. Many Jedi fell beneath the blade of his lightsaber." (Databank)

- suggests that Bandon was a capable warrior; skilled in the arts of lightsaber combat. We have no idea how formidable those Jedi were. He could have killed the cream of the crop, or the spoiled curds. Remember that one Jedi at the beginning of KotOR? The one that just stood there and was taken down by a piece of bursting wall? Not exactly the prime combatants that rack up renown when you kill them.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This information;

"Unleashing his cruelty within the Sith hierarchy, he immediately sparks interest from Darth Malak." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

and this information;

"His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself." (Databank)

and this information;

"Growing arrogant, Bandon inevitably sets his sights on Malak's mantle." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

- suggests that Bandon was strong in the Force.

------

No rocket science here. Yeah, that's what he was. I said "how". Cruel and ambitious and strong are just broad categorizations. If his fighting style was only average, or his intelligence and level in combat was stunted, no amount of strength or ambition is going to save him. I want to know exactly what made him such a great fighter. You know, like the kind of ways we describe in depth Anakin or Bane or Luke etc.

Q99
Still, if you fight a lot, not all of them are going to be weak, unless you either get very lucky or are able to specifically pick the weak, and there's no sign of either. And even the weak can get lucky if he wasn't *that* strong.

Simple chance indicates he should be pretty strong.

Lord Lucien
Oh absolutely. But he's so underspecified that I'm loathe to consider him a meaningful candidate in any match-up. He has no detailed combative feats to his name, other than killing Trask Ulgo, dying, and being a head in a jar. Honestly, Johun Othone's abilities are more explored.

Arhael
Originally posted by Q99
Still, if you fight a lot, not all of them are going to be weak, unless you either get very lucky or are able to specifically pick the weak, and there's no sign of either. And even the weak can get lucky if he wasn't *that* strong.

Simple chance indicates he should be pretty strong.
If you haven't noticed, truly competent Force users in each era can be counted by fingers. Numbers don't necessarily increase probability of meeting strong opponent. As example, Lost Tribe off the Sith were shown too drill combat from younghood, yet, there was almost no powerful individuals among them. Thousands Sith, yet, even Alana killed plenty of them.

Lord Lucien
That sounds like lazy writing.

Q99
Yea, there is some vagueness there.

It's not like we even know the specifics of some of his weak Jedi killing. I'd be more impressive if we knew, say, he had taken out a bunch at once or such. Like in Legacy, Imperial Knight Draco took down 7 rank-and-file Sith all at once while having already engaged in several combats before. Being mobbed by a half-dozen is a lot harder than a half-dozen individually, so it's pretty impressive. Did Bandon ever do something like that? Maybe, maybe not, we don't know.

Hm, do we have better feats for anyone lower in the order? It'll say something if "So-and-so did this, and they're STILL considered weaker than Bandon!".

*Edit* Oh yea, he dueled Juhani at one point with neither dying, and she was a strong Jedi who defeated her master.

Originally posted by Arhael
If you haven't noticed, truly competent Force users in each era can be counted by fingers. Numbers don't necessarily increase probability of meeting strong opponent. As example, Lost Tribe off the Sith were shown too drill combat from younghood, yet, there was almost no powerful individuals among them. Thousands Sith, yet, even Alana killed plenty of them.

I'd say 'truly powerful' rather than 'truly competent'. In general there's a large number of competent, reasonably strong masters and knights below the stand-out heroes and villains. And there's always a good deal who just don't have the talent- you need to train a lot of people to get a reasonable number of solid and a few heroes, no way to tell who'll excel or just become solid ahead of time, I guess.

Arhael
In Kotor II 4 Masters get killed either by Kreia or Exile.
In CW Opress on introduction kills random Master and Padawan and that's before being trained by Dooku.

Three celebrated Masters with plenty of impressive feats are non-factor against Sidious. And so on. Even Jango Fett killed several Jedi with bare hands.


Getting used to my new tablet. smile

Q99
Originally posted by Arhael
In Kotor II 4 Masters get killed either by Kreia or Exile.
In CW Opress on introduction kills random Master and Padawan and that's before being trained by Dooku.

Three celebrated Masters with plenty of impressive feats are non-factor against Sidious. And so on.

Personally I don't think that says the masters were weak, just how incredibly badass those few were.

I'll note how famed Jedi hunters like Opress and Aurra fight their enemies one or two at a time, mostly padawan and knights with the odd master. Taking on multiple masters at once is something only the tiny, 0.01% of force using badasses can do.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Arhael
Getting used to my new tablet. smile I... I meant the writing in FotJ.

S_W_LeGenD

Q99
Or the Mandalorians. The Sith Empire was made mostly of fallen Jedi from the Mandolorian war and the soldiers who went with them, plus later recruits, but there's a lot of combat vets who fought against not-inconsiderable opposition.

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