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If you have a honed killer ninja with a sinewy body and pristine relfexes I think (s)he can overcome any other armed opponent (melee) with a couple of Kyoketshu Shogei Knives.

http://www.karatemart.com/images/products/main/ninja-assassin-kyoketshu-shogei-knife.jpg

The carnage would be complex, precise, and clean.

Any other input as per what the deadliest melee weapon possibly is?

Lightsaber.

Dolos: Has the shatterpoint charism, is a Zabrak Sith Ninja, master of Form IV, Ataru. I wield Kyoketshu Shogei Knives with; knives and chains made from a Kortosis-alloy (deactivates lightsaber blades and is immune to their energy).

Can't stop me wit your slow non-nimble single bladed lightsaber wielding ass.

Me: A walking Deus ex Machina. Your everything is gone. Lightsaber through the dick.




Flawless victory.

Teddy bears.

A Spartan Shield breaks/makes your Ninja Knives useless and then he uses his spear to kill you

Originally posted by Dolos
Dolos: Has the shatterpoint charism, is a Zabrak Sith Ninja, master of Form IV, Ataru. I wield Kyoketshu Shogei Knives with; knives and chains made from a Kortosis-alloy (deactivates lightsaber blades and is immune to their energy).

Can't stop me wit your slow non-nimble single bladed lightsaber wielding ass.

A true Star Wars fan would know that it's Cortosis with a C, and Cortosis-Alloy doesn't short out a saber blade, it only resists them but can still get cut through after a while. Pure Cortosis shorts out a saber blade, but the guy with the saber can just turn it back on after a few seconds. Also there's certain saber crystals that make a lightsaber completely immune to Cortosis.

BOOM!

"honed killer... with a sinewy body and pristine relfexes" could use a plethora of melee weapons, not just rope knives.


And facing down an equally capable opponent with a spear or polearm, that knife-rope is gonna tangled/cut real quick.

Revolvers>reliable melee weapons>Kusarigama>this piece of weeabo wankery

A gun is a melee weapon with a more frequently used alt mode.

Originally posted by KingD19
A gun is a melee weapon with a more frequently used alt mode.

Only for pistol whipping, and that's a cheap shot.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
"honed killer... with a sinewy body and pristine relfexes" could use a plethora of melee weapons, not just rope knives.


And facing down an equally capable opponent with a spear or polearm, that knife-rope is gonna tangled/cut real quick.

Doesn't have to be a rope, could be a chain. The knife could be attached to a chain that is a lot longer than any spear. If he has the technical ability to fully straighten it out before the spearman can get the tip of his spear near him, he's dead.

As far as shields, a chain bends, so you can stab a guy crouched beneath his shield from the side of his head while stand in front of him. You have to snap it perfectly, but you have longer range in stabbing motions than with a spear. The flexibility of the chain, and the way this weapon has to be used against other weapons, makes it unpredictable. Yet, in theory, it can be used as or even more effectively than one could use any other different kind of melee weapon (thrusting, slashing, tangling/tripping up, strangulation), it's ambuigity gives it the greatest versatility.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Revolvers>reliable melee weapons>Kusarigama>this piece of weeabo wankery

You act like the application of this weapon is impossible beyond coreographed cinematic sequences. What if I told you that a person is fully capable of using it in the way I describe above your quote?

Ninjas are out there, man.

However the human part of the equation is irrelevant, in theory the chain-knives are versatile enough to be used to overcome any weapon, as well as to kill more opponents more quickly than with any other melee weapon.

I see your silly little knife on a chain and raise you a ****ing polearm.

http://www.bownet.org/jvulgamore/armor%20and%20weapons/Halberd.jpg

In the hands of an equally capable combatant it is more deadly in every situation with the sole exception of 'you're fighting in a broom closet'.

It is easier to lunge with a polearm. In fact it's very difficult to lunge with the chain-knives. However, timing and precision can overcome all. The polearm is not more versatile, it doesn't bend, if you are in a tight spot with the chain knives wrap the chain around your body and just use the knives as daggers. A polearm master could easily be taken apart by Kyoketshu Shogei Knives. Let the polearm lung toward him, he'll time his evasion perfectly, get behind the polearm, and kill him with his knives if the chains are tight, or trip him up if they are lose and finish by gutting the polearm man. That's one of many tacts.

You assume they're fighting in a closet? That's legitimately the only time the knife user has the advantage, if at any time the chain becomes entangled with the polearm the polearm user has every advantage then as well because he has more available grip, and the disarm is comparatively easy for him.

Also, combatants of equal skill, none of this 'the polearm guy misses and then is killed because anime' shit, not only is the polearm wielder just as or more likely to get a hit in, his hits are all instant kills. The damage a halberd does to a human body is ... Yeah.

A guy with polearm and good knowledge of it would just use it to catch the chain and then whamo you've lost you're weapons.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You assume they're fighting in a closet? That's legitimately the only time the knife user has the advantage, if at any time the chain becomes entangled with the polearm the polearm user has every advantage then as well because he has more available grip, and the disarm is comparatively easy for him.

Depends on how funky this guy fights and how long his chain is.

Suppose he has two knives, one on each end of a 15 foot chain. He could tangle the tip of one chain and knife around the spear, and the other around the guy's neck or ankle - with that chain wrapped more closely around my guy. A lunge would not disarm my guy as he avoids the spear, because his chain would not run out of room until the spearman is way past and is tripped or whipped to the ground because he was just yanked with a chain around his neck. Now my guy controls his body and can use that to redirect his spear like a bull-fighter and throw him with some quantum suicide judo-drop.



Any sharply shaped edge composed of steel going through the face is equally lethal.

Oh, and he can throw a knife on a chain through a human skull (hard, unlikely to work) as easily as a polearm wielding knight could poke him in the torso (easy, practical)

If he has two knives and attempts that, he loses both, the first when the polearm is pulled, and the second when it's swung at either him or the chain. The second swing kills him.

That's assuming he pulled it off at all, which he simply won't because he isn't Neo. haermm

Originally posted by Dolos
Depends on how funky this guy fights and how long his chain is.

Suppose he has two knives, one on each end of a 15 foot chain. He could tangle the tip of one chain and knife around the spear, and the other around the guy's neck or ankle. A lunge would not disarm my guy as he avoids the spear, because his chain would not run out of room until the spearman is way past and is tripped or whipped to the ground because he was just yanked with a chain around his neck. Now my guy controls his body and can use that to redirect his spear like a bull-fighter and throw him with some quantum suicide judo-drop.



Any sharply shaped edge composed of steel going through the face is equally lethal. Wouldn't happen.

The Polearm guy would easily be able to disarm the one hand snatch of his weapon.

Plus 15 foot chains are unweildly enough using two hands trying to use one in each hand is recipe for disaster.

That's why the chain wrapped around his neck is the length of the halbred tighter than the chain around the middle of his halbred, as he passes. He's either tripped or yanked the ground if he doesn't stop his lunge quickly enough, and if he does the knive wielder wrap the chain tighter and throw him anyway.

Originally posted by Newjak
Wouldn't happen.

The Polearm guy would easily be able to disarm the one hand snatch of his weapon.

Plus 15 foot chains are unweildly enough using two hands trying to use one in each hand is recipe for disaster.

Depends on the height and lank of the wielder really, as well as his conditioned strength and coordination.

Originally posted by Dolos
That's why the chain wrapped around his neck is the length of the halbred tighter than the chain around the middle of his halbred, as he passes. He's either tripped or yanked the ground if he doesn't stop his lunge quickly enough, and if he does the knive wielder wrap the chain tighter and throw him anyway. What lunge? How is he even getting the chain around someone else's neck from out of polearm range? How is he tripping him? How is he maintaining his hold on said chains while the guy with the infinitely more practical weapon yanks them out of his hands with his sturdier, more comfortable grip that comes with an entire shaft for leverage? How does he avoid being instagib poked with weapons that have no defensive capability AND no long range kill potential? Your argument makes no sense. Polearm wins every time.

Originally posted by Dolos
Depends on the height and lank of the wielder really, as well as his conditioned strength and coordination. Since this is a test of the weapon I was assuming we were using people of equal physical abilities in which case Polearm would easily defend a one handed snatch of his weapon and disarm the other person.

Originally posted by Newjak
Since this is a test of the weapon I was assuming we were using people of equal physical abilities in which case Polearm would easily defend a one handed snatch of his weapon and disarm the other person.

His skin could be too durable for the knife or spear to cut.

Just drop it, how did this get so ridiculous where we're trying to work out a coreography here. It's all very pseudo-scientific. You're definately right that I am blowing this weapon out of proportions here. Seriously I apologize.

A katana

Originally posted by Supra
A katana

Lolno.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Teddy bears.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Lolno.

Whats better then a ninja with a katana!

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Lolno. This.Originally posted by Supra
Whats better then a ninja with a katana! A child in chain mail. haermm

Alright I have to come clean guys.

B8Zzy3mqmO8

Halbred THAT!

lol

Originally posted by Dolos



You act like the application of this weapon is impossible beyond coreographed cinematic sequences. What if I told you that a person is fully capable of using it in the way I describe above your quote?

Ninjas are out there, man.

However the human part of the equation is irrelevant, in theory the chain-knives are versatile enough to be used to overcome any weapon, as well as to kill more opponents more quickly than with any other melee weapon.
I would tell you that in most if not all situations a more traditional weapon in equally skilled hands would be more useful.

"In theory"? Whose theory?

I'd prefer the zweihander over the polearm myself.

http://images.wikia.com/deadliestfiction/images/c/ca/Zweihander.jpg

The sheer versatility of the weapon is amazing. You can use it to slash and thrust, you can grib the blade to use it as a speer, you can use it as a mace by gripping the blade and bashing with the pommel or crossguard. it is truly an incredible weapon.

You're both wrong.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2009/342/6/f/Chainsword_by_DarkXeroo.jpg

Look into the face of death. And despair.

I am more fond of Power and Force swords myself.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I would tell you that in most if not all situations a more traditional weapon in equally skilled hands would be more useful.

"In theory"? Whose theory?

Actually as the perplexity of human capacity increases, the use of more exotic weapons becomes more efficient. At best you can use a sword or a spear or a trident or a pitch fork as a pole that can be twirled with phantom speed and technical perfection while cutting opponents into bits. However, so could a giant chain, except the chain can be used for more than stabbing, slicing, and dicing, it can also grip, throw, trap and pull enemies.

Of course we are no longer talking about humans, we're talking The Matrix. However, as for the principle, it's still physically accurate.

It is a difficult topic to discuss since any Melee Weapon can be considered incredibly deadly when used correctly. Not to mention it depends on the situation of the fight occuring.

And that is a giant pictutre.

Speaking of pictures, I'd like to see yours.

Originally posted by Dolos
Actually as the perplexity of human capacity increases, the use of more exotic weapons becomes more efficient.

What you just said was gibberish masquerading as an argument.


No you couldn't. You don't cut with tridents, and you don't use swords as poles, do you even read your own posts?


A chain can't be used for stabbing, slicing, or dicing, and it's ability to do the other things you mentioned is suspect at best.


No it's not.

If the trident is made out of metal, it can go through flesh with enough force behind it. So can a chain. I you can literally make twenty slashes every half second you may as well be using a sword as a ninja stick.

Originally posted by Dolos
If the trident is made out of metal, it can go through flesh with enough force behind it. So can a chain. I you can literally make twenty slashes every half second you may as well be using a sword as a ninja stick.
Just about anything hard and solid can go through flesh with enough force behind it. That doesn't mean it's practical.

But no one can. And how does slashing faster make a sword more pole-like?

I'm sorry, did he just say a cylinder can cut with enough force?

While true, I doubt any human can reliably produce such an effect.

Every post Dolos makes gives me the impression that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Or that he's trying to be cute/clever.

I think he bought one of these things and is trying to rationalize the expense.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I think he bought one of these things and is trying to rationalize the expense.
Probably correct.

lol

What I said in a nutshell:

"Well I have superstrength. Now I can shove the cylindrical part of my halbred through a man's torso as easily as with a sword. That gives me more uses for this weapon than just stabbing. If I am not in a position to stab someone, I can just use this as a sword for convenience. Furthermore I can hold any part of this halbred with my fleshly hand, couldn't hold the edge of a sword so easily. Dang, Spears don't bend like chain, and no matter how hard a clash or jab it across this shield they are both made of metal. Guess I need a chain fling around this shield, the part that gets to this coward will kill cut through because he's just flesh unlike his shield. Yet I am strong enough now I can still use the chain as a blade to slice, as spear to stab if I heave it into a straight line, top of the chain going through his tosro and all, just as easily as a I could with a sword or a spear. Furthermore, I could pull the center of this chain into a tight grip and use a section of the chain to block and parry just as easily as with a sword or a halbred. From now on I'll use a giant fricken chain."

(any) gun butt. keep the gun loaded though just in case the butt knock doesn't work. that and you'd be ready to shoot, with your opponent knowing that.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
(any) gun butt. keep the gun loaded though just in case the butt knock doesn't work. that and you'd be ready to shoot, with your opponent knowing that.

If used to shoot, it's a ranged weapon. If used to pistol whip, it's a shit melee weapon.

not if caught by surprise. guns, including hand guns, can be rather weighty and put in the right hands even bette,r a strong person, on an unsuspecting target, a good old hard knock will practically guarenteed a knockout. Or a dizzying stun which can be followed by repeated knocks.

Originally posted by Dolos
What I said in a nutshell:

"Well I have superstrength. Now I can shove the cylindrical part of my halbred through a man's torso as easily as with a sword. That gives me more uses for this weapon than just stabbing. If I am not in a position to stab someone, I can just use this as a sword for convenience. Furthermore I can hold any part of this halbred with my fleshly hand, couldn't hold the edge of a sword so easily. Dang, Spears don't bend like chain, and no matter how hard a clash or jab it across this shield they are both made of metal. Guess I need a chain fling around this shield, the part that gets to this coward will kill cut through because he's just flesh unlike his shield. Yet I am strong enough now I can still use the chain as a blade to slice, as spear to stab if I heave it into a straight line, top of the chain going through his tosro and all, just as easily as a I could with a sword or a spear. Furthermore, I could pull the center of this chain into a tight grip and use a section of the chain to block and parry just as easily as with a sword or a halbred. From now on I'll use a giant fricken chain."



I think you're confusing a halberd with a kusarigama.

http://www.a2armory.com/images/axes-pics/MedievalHalberd.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110119232027/deadliestfiction/images/c/c3/Kusarigama.jpg

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
not if caught by surprise. guns, including hand guns, can be rather weighty and put in the right hands even bette,r a strong person, on an unsuspecting target, a good old hard knock will practically guarenteed a knockout. Or a dizzying stun which can be followed by repeated knocks.

It still is not as effective as a dedicated melee weapon, lol.

Originally posted by Robtard
I think you're confusing a halberd with a kusarigama.

http://www.a2armory.com/images/axes-pics/MedievalHalberd.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110119232027/deadliestfiction/images/c/c3/Kusarigama.jpg

If the first image is a halbred then nope, not confusing them.

As for the second pic, I'm just talking about a straight 15-30 ft chain, nothing attached. Like Zeus here.

P_Zu4T5kfyU

In the hands of a superhuman a chain would be more versatile than any other thing that could be used in melee.

That's what I meant by "perplexity" (far out there) of capabilities. I wasn't neccessarily referring to just skill, exotic weapons gain uses they didn't have before. The physics behind the sort of communication between each link in the chain reflects how it really could be wielded by Zeus here if there really was someone that strong.

Originally posted by Dolos
The physics behind the sort of communication between each link in the chain


You feeling alright, son?

Originally posted by Robtard
You feeling alright, son?

Not literally obviously. Lol.

As one link moves, it tells the next one how and where to go. What direction, how much force put into the direction. With superstrength a man can direct and coordinate such communication with limb amputating precision if this is a heavy 30 foot chain.

It's probably just inertia that causes a swung chain to extend out.

thats the same thing as communicating, derp!

Originally posted by Dolos
Not literally obviously. Lol.

As one link moves, it tells the next one how and where to go. What direction, how much force put into the direction. With superstrength a man can direct and coordinate such communication with limb amputating precision if this is a heavy 30 foot chain. With Superhuman strength?

So the person using these weapons now have superhuman strength?

Originally posted by Newjak
With Superhuman strength?

So the person using these weapons now have superhuman strength?


As is whoever is using your polearm. The physics change now that the chain with knives on the end is just as lethal, but for the human wielding far more versatile as he can cause it to do all kinds of things he couldn't before. He has gained the ability to use a 15 chain that has reach on your polearm, and use it to snatch an ankle from a safe distance while the polearm has the same strength physical abilities, but without a weapon capable of folding around ankles, curving its tip around the bulk of a shield when lunging with it. It has no malleable links, the chain can be heaved to curve around the shield and still unfold its links, allowing the knife at the tip to penetrate the man behind the shield, bypassing it altogether. For someone that precise handling a chain in such a way is no more difficult than handling a shield or an axe or a sword, its just he can do more with it. And retains the functionality of stabbing, slicing, and parrying because of his strength.

Thus exotic weapons become more effective as skill and capabilities increase.

so in a universe where you get to set the parameters such that your thesis is correct, your thesis is correct?

woah!

If the person has superhuman strength, they would be just ass effective using their ****ing fists against mortals, as with weapons.

Put them against someone equally capable? Once more, polearm or Zweihander wins.

Originally posted by Dolos
As is whoever is using your polearm. The physics change now that the chain with knives on the end is just as lethal, but for the human wielding far more versatile as he can cause it to do all kinds of things he couldn't before. He has gained the ability to use a 15 chain that has reach on your polearm, and use it to snatch an ankle from a safe distance while the polearm has the same strength physical abilities, but without a weapon capable of folding around ankles, curving its tip around the bulk of a shield when lunging with it. It has no malleable links, the chain can be heaved to curve around the shield and still unfold its links, allowing the knife at the tip to penetrate the man behind the shield, bypassing it altogether. For someone that precise handling a chain in such a way is no more difficult than handling a shield or an axe or a sword, its just he can do more with it. And retains the functionality of stabbing, slicing, and parrying because of his strength.

Thus exotic weapons become more effective as skill and capabilities increase.

I don't have superhuman strength nor am I a very skilled melee combatant, but I am absolutely confident I could wreck your ass with a good length of chain.

Originally posted by Oliver North
so in a universe where you get to set the parameters such that your thesis is correct, your thesis is correct?

woah!
Someone said a lightsaber would beat his knives, his response: "now the knives are made from kortosis (sic)"

Eventually the hypothetical wielder of this weapon will be intangible, hypersonic, able to teleport, and capable of time travel. And the knives will explode anything they touch or come close to touching.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Someone said a lightsaber would beat his knives, his response: "now the knives are made from kortosis (sic)"

Eventually the hypothetical wielder of this weapon will be intangible, hypersonic, able to teleport, and capable of time travel. And the knives will explode anything they touch or come close to touching.

oh...

Originally posted by NemeBro
If the person has superhuman strength, they would be just ass effective using their ****ing fists against mortals, as with weapons.

Put them against someone equally capable? Once more, polearm or Zweihander wins.

That's the one thing I was trying to get across. Ancient soldiers have limits, for them a spear is more useful thanthese knives. However is an elderly woman had to choose a weapon against another person at her age and strength, the one with the spear wouldn't be strong enough to wield. Thus a kitchen knife would better. Same principle here with these ninja assassin chain knives, and to a greater, Zeus' 30 foot chain.

Quit playing Dark Souls.

Originally posted by Dolos
That's the one thing I was trying to get across. Ancient soldiers have limits, for them a spear is more useful thanthese knives. However is an elderly woman had to choose a weapon against another person at her age and strength, the one with the spear wouldn't be strong enough to wield. Thus a kitchen knife would better. Same principle here with these ninja assassin chain knives, and to a greater, Zeus' 30 foot chain.

Quit playing Dark Souls.
You can't just say "same principle" and expect that to make an awful comparison valid.

The main value of ninja weapons was that they were often farm tools that could be disguised as such. Ninja simply weren't the equals of samurai in any kind of even combat.

Edit.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The main value of ninja weapons was that they were often farm tools that could be disguised as such. Ninja simply weren't the equals of samurai in any kind of even combat.

Don't listen to this guy, he's obviously working for the pirates.

Lol. Pirates?

Originally posted by Dolos
Lol. Pirates?

PvN.

A conflict that has raged since the dawn of time. Arguably before.

I'm anything about weapons just leave me alone.

You must choose a side or be swept away by the tides of war.

Which will it be, are you a P or N?

Ps have P-shooters. They win all the bases.

Originally posted by Robtard
You must choose a side or be swept away by the tides of war.

Which will it be, are you a P or N?

I am a stud pile with just the right amount of facial hair.

Originally posted by Dolos
That's the one thing I was trying to get across. Ancient soldiers have limits, for them a spear is more useful thanthese knives. However is an elderly woman had to choose a weapon against another person at her age and strength, the one with the spear wouldn't be strong enough to wield. Thus a kitchen knife would better. Same principle here with these ninja assassin chain knives, and to a greater, Zeus' 30 foot chain.

Quit playing Dark Souls.

Are you on crack?

Also, what about Dark Souls?

Polearm

Originally posted by Dolos
As is whoever is using your polearm. The physics change now that the chain with knives on the end is just as lethal, but for the human wielding far more versatile as he can cause it to do all kinds of things he couldn't before. He has gained the ability to use a 15 chain that has reach on your polearm, and use it to snatch an ankle from a safe distance while the polearm has the same strength physical abilities, but without a weapon capable of folding around ankles, curving its tip around the bulk of a shield when lunging with it. It has no malleable links, the chain can be heaved to curve around the shield and still unfold its links, allowing the knife at the tip to penetrate the man behind the shield, bypassing it altogether. For someone that precise handling a chain in such a way is no more difficult than handling a shield or an axe or a sword, its just he can do more with it. And retains the functionality of stabbing, slicing, and parrying because of his strength.

Thus exotic weapons become more effective as skill and capabilities increase. Still picking a polearm.

A person with Superstrength could use a much larger polearm so it's still not advantage chain knives

Zweihander is better fanboys.

That just means two-handed sword in German.

You'd get your ass pwned buy an equally skilled swordsman armed with a rapier, or other similar fast striking sword, especially if the area you're dueling in is confined.

It actually just means literally "two hander", but thanks for telling me shit I already knew.

Considering it is a weapon meant to be used by practitioners of the German school of fencing, there is a reason it has a German name.

Edit: "Fast-striking sword"? The Zweihander weighed like six pounds, and despite its size, was not slow. If it were, it would not have been used. Mercenaries armed with Zweihanders were prized highly and paid more for a reason.

A confined area is the only situation where a rapier-wielder would have the advantage against a Zweihander, but through the use of techniques like Mordhau (wielding the sword as a mace, using the pommel to strike and shit), or gripping the ricasso (Half-swording) to deliver forceful thrusts.

It's just a two handed sword though, that's the point.

Give a non German made two handed sword of equal build quality and the same "German fencing" could be had, ass.

Are you implying that I believe only a German can make a Zweihander?

I mean, "nodachi" just means "field sword" in the same vein, I am unsure what your stupid fat ass is arguing. I use the German term because it was referred to as such historically, lol.

Just say two handed sword. Calm down. Yes, in Germany, cos they speak German.

PS, you'd still get stomped by a faster striking sword swordsman in a duel.

No.

Yup

Look at the end fight in Rob Roy, Liam had a basket-hilt broadsword which isn't as cumbersome as a two-hander, got stomped.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yup

Look at the end fight in Rob Roy, Liam had a basket-hilt broadsword which isn't as cumbersome as a two-hander, got stomped. Are you really using a film to make your argument

Films can't depict a measure reality?

But it was to form a mental picture for Nemebro, so he'd know how he'd get his ass kicked with his silly two-handed sword. Dude's overcompensating for something.

I will keep my thirty foot chain.

Originally posted by Dolos
I will keep my thirty foot chain.

And lose to a guy with a baseball bat.

Originally posted by Robtard
And lose to a guy with a baseball bat.

Come at me.

I am going to chain you to a cactus-tree and pimp smack you to death.

You lost. You went to swing the chain; it was slow and I knocked you in the head with the bat and you fell. Condolences.

PS, if "30 feet of chain" was the apotheosis of a melee weapon. You'd think armies armed with lengths of chain would have been more prevalent throughout time.

Your eyes couldn't even follow my chain.

Originally posted by Robtard
Films can't depict a measure reality?

But it was to form a mental picture for Nemebro, so he'd know how he'd get his ass kicked with his silly two-handed sword. Dude's overcompensating for something. Yeah but it's kind of hard to use them to determine an outcome for an argument when the director can literally make anything happen even if it's not what would happen most of the time.

Also look at Willaim Wallace from Braveheart to see how a great two hand sword fighter looks

Originally posted by Newjak
Also look at Willaim Wallace from Braveheart to see how a great two hand sword fighter looks

In the chaos of a battlefield, sure. In a duel against a faster bladed opponent, not so much.

Originally posted by Dolos
Your eyes couldn't even follow my chain.

Ah, right. You'd have superpowers. My error.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ah, right. You'd have superpowers. My error.

You best remember boy.

On the whole zweihander vs rapier issue--the whole point of a zweihander was that it was to be used in concert with a heavy suit of armor, creating a footsoldier capable of cutting down light infantry as well as cavalry, essentially a knight on foot--hence the term "Landsknechte". I can't imagine why anyone would ever take a zweihander in an unarmored duel against someone with a faster sword, and at the same time it would be a piss poor idea to bring a rapier against a Landsknecht because you'd just tire yourself out striking at his armor while he lines up a decent killing blow.

Oh, and a Zweihander is not just any two-handed sword, it's a two-handed sword that due to its size is realistically impractical as a one handed weapon, unlike swords like the claymore that could be used as one-handed swords in a pinch.

The minor difference in speed is compensated for by the greater reach and versatility of the weapon.

Originally posted by Robtard
Films can't depict a measure reality?

But it was to form a mental picture for Nemebro, so he'd know how he'd get his ass kicked with his silly two-handed sword. Dude's overcompensating for something.

I'd kick anyone on Earth's ass with my mountain-shattering physical might. Using me as an example is just as illogical as Dolos giving the chains to a superhuman.

Also, Rob Roy? I raise you Braveheart, as Newjak mentioned.

Minor difference.... this uncle****er.

I raise you common sense. Cos you don't want me to raise you Syrio Forel, as you'd cry. Sit on your two-hander and spin.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
On the whole zweihander vs rapier issue--the whole point of a zweihander was that it was to be used in concert with a heavy suit of armor, creating a footsoldier capable of cutting down light infantry as well as cavalry, essentially a knight on foot--hence the term "Landsknechte". I can't imagine why anyone would ever take a zweihander in an unarmored duel against someone with a faster sword, and at the same time it would be a piss poor idea to bring a rapier against a Landsknecht because you'd just tire yourself out striking at his armor while he lines up a decent killing blow.

Oh, and a Zweihander is not just any two-handed sword, it's a two-handed sword that due to its size is realistically impractical as a one handed weapon, unlike swords like the claymore that could be used as one-handed swords in a pinch.

What kind of blade does Brad Pitt wield in Troy?

It had a tiny ass handle that looked difficult to grip, the blade was bronze.

Xiphos

Syrio Forel fought random douchebag knights wielding... Arming swords.

A badass, sure.

I'd love to see how he'd stack up to Ser Gregor Clegane. If using him is cheating due to the incredible difference in size, strength, and defense, then I raise you Ser Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning. Dawn too cheap to make this fair? Eddard Stark then, at least, going by the show. Novels-only? Jaime wields a two-handed longsword.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Syrio Forel fought random douchebag knights wielding... Arming swords.

A badass, sure.

I'd love to see how he'd stack up to Ser Gregor Clegane. If using him is cheating due to the incredible difference in size, strength, and defense, then I raise you Ser Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning. Dawn too cheap to make this fair? Eddard Stark then, at least, going by the show. Novels-only? Jaime wields a two-handed longsword.

Syrio fought multiple mother****ing guardsmen armed with nothing except a small wooden weighted sword. He then took on Meryn Trant who was armed with a fairly large blade and full armor, and still did considerably well.

Point is, the speed of his weapon was his ally.

Against full armor, a rapier or other quick stabbing sword isn't much of a threat, barring joint shots. Syrio would still give any of those armoured queers a run for their money. We know how well Gregor did with his slow-ass two-hander against an opponent using a fast stabbing weapon.

Originally posted by Robtard
Syrio fought multiple mother****ing guardsmen armed with nothing except a small wooden weighted sword. He then took on Meryn Trant who was armed with a fairly large blade and full armor, and still did considerably well.

Point is, the speed of his weapon was his ally.

Against full armor, a rapier or other quick stabbing sword isn't much of a threat, barring joint shots. Syrio would still give any of those armoured queers a run for their money. We know how well Gregor did with his slow-ass two-hander against an opponent using a fast stabbing weapon.

Plus, you know, he exceeded the skill of his foes by a considerable amount. His weapon was not faster. He was.

We never saw Syrio fight anyone of the caliber of the Cleganes, Jaime, or whoever.

Oh, you mean that fast stabbing weapon that was like seven to eight feet long, one Oberyn explicitly chose to wield because it exceeded the Mountain's own range, and happened to be poisoned? Oberyn himself also was noted to be a very quick and nimble combatant, whereas the Mountain was merely "faster than a man that size had any right to be". Also, Oberyn had a shield, which saved his life in that fight.

Ser Gregor Clegane or Sandor would wreck Syrio, lol. Arthur Dayne would do so as well, Syrio was likely killed by one member of the Kingsguard, Arthur could have killed the other five members of the Kingsguard with one hand, while taking a piss with the other.

Jaime in his prime would also smash, as would Ned.

Yes, he was more skilled. His weapon was also faster, being made of wood. This is the point. Speed matters a lot.

Syrio > your face.

Face(that was just owned by Syrio) it, you're wrong. Weapon speed was a major factor in that fight too.

In armor. Sure. In a man's duel. Nopesauce.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ser Gregor Clegane or Sandor would wreck Syrio, lol. Arthur Dayne would do so as well, Syrio was likely killed by one member of the Kingsguard, Arthur could have killed the other five members of the Kingsguard with one hand, while taking a piss with the other.

Jaime in his prime would also smash, as would Ned.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, he was more skilled. His weapon was also faster, being made of wood. This is the point. Speed matters a lot.

Syrio > your face.

Face(that was just owned by Syrio) it, you're wrong. Weapon speed was a major factor in that fight too.

In armor. Sure. In a man's duel. Nopesauce.

Wooden training swords are designed to accurately replicate the feel of an actual sword. In fact, Arya's wooden sword was heavier than her real sword.

In the Syrio fight, nope. Not at all.

Syrio arguably exceeds Gregor and Sandor in skill, but not in strength, reach, endurance, or ferocity. He is exceeded in all ways by Jaime and Ser Arthur ****ing Dayne. Even unarmoured, they are more likely to prevail.

Originally posted by Robtard
We know how well Gregor did with his slow-ass two-hander against an opponent using a fast stabbing weapon.

Yeah, he killed that guy with one punch.

Right?

lol

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah, he killed that guy with one punch.
*spoilers*




After Gregor was bested in combat. It was Oberyn's idiocy that ultimately ended his life; not Gregor's great skill with Nemebro's two-handed dildo.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Wooden training swords are designed to accurately replicate the feel of an actual sword. In fact, Arya's wooden sword was heavier than her real sword.

In the Syrio fight, nope. Not at all.

Syrio arguably exceeds Gregor and Sandor in skill, but not in strength, reach, endurance, or ferocity. He is exceeded in all ways by Jaime and Ser Arthur ****ing Dayne. Even unarmoured, they are more likely to prevail.

Not exactly. I've held a katana and I've held a wooden practice katana. Katana was heavier. But the point which you're dancing around, Syrio kicked ass with a wooden sword, against opponents with heavier/slower actual swords.

Yes, he would.

Look how he did against multiple opponents and then a King's Guard with a wooden sword. Show me Jamie and your boytoy Dayne doing that. LoL, no. Unarmed they die for certain.

I like how this has become a Game of Thrones thread now.

But Rob, you seem to be ignoring the fact that while a smaller, lighter weapon has an advantage over heavier weapons as seen in Syrio's confrontation with the guards, it also has a disadvantage, also showcased in said fight, which is the frailty that comes with being lighter and smaller. In the end Syrio would have been much better off using a heavier sword if the heft also translated to sturdiness.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not exactly. I've held a katana and I've held a wooden practice katana. Katana was heavier. But the point which you're dancing around, Syrio kicked ass with a wooden sword, against opponents with heavier/slower actual swords.

Yes, he would.

Look how he did against multiple opponents and then a King's Guard with a wooden sword. Show me Jamie and your boytoy Dayne doing that. LoL, no. Unarmed they die for certain.

I don't care what lies you've just made up fatass.

The swords were explicitly heavier than Needle.

Gregor Clegane has charged pike formations on foot and broken them, survived hails of arrows raining on him, decapitated a horse, crushed a man's skull with his hands, cut fully armoured men in platemail in half, and IIRC in his fight with Oberyn managed to ****ing break his shield. Gregor rapestomps.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I like how this has become a Game of Thrones thread now.

But Rob, you seem to be ignoring the fact that while a smaller, lighter weapon has an advantage over heavier weapons as seen in Syrio's confrontation with the guards, it also has a disadvantage, also showcased in said fight, which is the frailty that comes with being lighter and smaller. In the end Syrio would have been much better off using a heavier sword if the heft also translated to sturdiness.

Agreed. Hypothetical GoT fights are much more interesting than chains-swung-by-superman.

Syrio's sword in that fight was made of wood though. If he has a proper rapier (basically what the Bravosi use), he would have likely shit-stomped Meryn Trant, his exceptional skills compensating for the armor.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't care what lies you've just made up fatass.

The swords were explicitly heavier than Needle.

Gregor Clegane has charged pike formations on foot and broken them, survived hails of arrows raining on him, decapitated a horse, crushed a man's skull with his hands, cut fully armoured men in platemail in half, and IIRC in his fight with Oberyn managed to ****ing break his shield. Gregor rapestomps.

Go and hold a practice katana, son.

Yet still lighter than his opponents larger steel weapons, son.

Gregor would never hit Syrio and he'd tire out in time. Oberyn showed how some cunning and skill > Gregor's strength in a 1v1 fight. Get off Gregor's dick, son.

Originally posted by Robtard
Go and hold a practice katana, son.

Hold your mother's ass son.



Prove it.



Syrio uses a weapon about half as long as Ser Gregor Clegane's, Oberyn chose the spear explicitly because its reach was greater than even Gregor's, and despite that, the use of his shield still saved his life, because Oberyn could not, in fact, dodge all of his blows. And to ignore the fact that his weapon was poisoned is blatant idiocy, you're ignoring context because it doesn't suit your argument. For Syrio to fight Gregor, he would have to step within the range of a man who could rip him apart with his bare hands. Syrio is good, but he isn't good enough to pass Gregor's physical advantage, nor the advantage in equipment.

I will not.

Prove that a short wooden sword is lighter than a larger steel longsword? Hmmm.

See above: Get off Gregor's dick. At least swing from the Clegane that's worthy, Sandor.

If Bronson counts I'd use him.

http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Movies/B/Bronson/slice_bronson_movie_tom_hardy_logo_01.jpg

Lenny McLean > Bronson.

Didn't Know Lenny was a Pro boxer, Lock Stock was great as was Snatch.

Gary:
Shotguns? What, like guns that fire shot?

Barry the Baptist:
Oh, you must be the brains of the operation. Yes, guns that fire shots.

Originally posted by Robtard
I will not.

Prove that a short wooden sword is lighter than a larger steel longsword? Hmmm.

See above: Get off Gregor's dick. At least swing from the Clegane that's worthy, Sandor.

I accept your concession.

Oh, and Sandor is afraid of his older, bigger, stronger brother for a reason.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I accept your concession.

Oh, and Sandor is afraid of his older, bigger, stronger brother for a reason.

Try harder.

Childhood trauma. Sandor is superior to Gregor in every way except physical strength and we saw how they fought at the King's tournament, Sandor was holding back and still matching Gregor. Get off Gregor's dick, boyo.

Originally posted by Robtard
Try harder.

Childhood trauma. Sandor is superior to Gregor in every way except physical strength and we saw how they fought at the King's tournament, Sandor was holding back and still matching Gregor. Get off Gregor's dick, boyo.

There is no evidence to suggest that Sandor is a more skilled fighter than Gregor.

Sandor himself hypes Gregor's prowess as a combatant ("Gregor's lance goes where Gregor wants it to go".

Sandor was able to briefly stalemate a maddened by rage Gregor through constant defense, never trying to attack, he wasn't holding back.

While it would be a good fight, Sandor would ultimately be unable to close the gap in raw physical strength and superior equipment.

Originally posted by NemeBro
There is no evidence to suggest that Sandor is a more skilled fighter than Gregor.

Sandor himself hypes Gregor's prowess as a combatant ("Gregor's lance goes where Gregor wants it to go".

Sandor was able to briefly stalemate a maddened by rage Gregor through constant defense, never trying to attack, he wasn't holding back.

While it would be a good fight, Sandor would ultimately be unable to close the gap in raw physical strength and superior equipment.

Except the scene I mentioned where it was stated that Sandor was holding back while Gregor was going for killing blows and they were matched. Gregor's known for his size, strength and pure unfiltered brutality he brings. Sandor's known for his skills.

That was in regards to jousting. A sport.

Except where it was mentioned he was.

No, Sandor likely best his brother, as he's still a hulking brute with a high level of strength himself and has more skill.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except the scene I mentioned where it was stated that Sandor was holding back while Gregor was going for killing blows and they were matched. Gregor's known for his size, strength and pure unfiltered brutality he brings. Sandor's known for his skills.

That was in regards to jousting. A sport.

Except where it was mentioned he was.

No, Sandor likely best his brother, as he's still a hulking brute with a high level of strength himself and has more skill.

No, nowhere was it stated that Sandor was "holding back", and actually, it does, in fact, state that Sandor was hammering at his brother as well. Sandor just happened to not be trying to aim for his unprotected face. The exchange was so brief that to use it as any kind of evidence is stupid.

Sandor is known to be among the physically strongest men in Westeros (Jaime explicitly mentions him, the Greatjon, Strongboar, and The Mountain himself as the four men in Westeros he believes to be physically superior to he, with the Mountain easily taking 1st, and his wording seems to imply that Sandor would be second), Jaime believes Sandor's real strength is that he is also very fast for a man of such strength and size. While skilled, he isn't any Arthur Dayne, or Jaime Lannister. Both are skilled fighters, Gregor is physically stronger, Sandor faster, but Gregor's plate mail is also virtually impregnable, compounded by his tower shield.

Which also happens to have its applications in actual combat.

It was not.

It would be a good fight, but the Mountain would prevail.

"No one could withstand him. That's truth enough. No one could ever withstand Gregor."

Originally posted by Robtard
Oberyn showed how some cunning and skill > Gregor's strength in a 1v1 fight.

Oberyn showed how picking the right weapon can define the outcome of the fight. He knew perfectly well that he couldn't win a sword fight with Gregor. With swords Gregor can hit everyone in GoT harder than they can hit him before they're close enough to even try. Not to say that Oberyn's speed was unimportant but the extra reach from the spear was the larger part of his plan.

And even with the spear, the fact that the fairly minor stabs that did land happened to poison him played a factor.

Three of David's Mighty Men killed eight thousand men with their spears. Spears do seem to have been effective in that day and age, if this biblical and awe-inspiring (although admittedly exaggerated) account is of any indication. The spear is described kind of like being God's weapon in many accounts of battle in the Old Testament.

It's difficult to deflect a spear with anything other than a shield.

A good thrusting spear and a shield and some light but tough armor is all a melee combatant can ask for. As well as a sword as plan b in case their spear gets caught up, dropped, or broken during battle.

Halbreds and other polearms are two handed thrusting weapons, almost impossible to deflect with a sword, and they have an advantage and reach over swords and other weapons as well in how quickly they can lobotomize and eviscerate opponents, and how easily.

Originally posted by Dolos
A good thrusting spear and a shield and some light but tough armor is all a melee combatant can ask for. So which is it, those knives or a spear?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oberyn showed how picking the right weapon can define the outcome of the fight. He knew perfectly well that he couldn't win a sword fight with Gregor. With swords Gregor can hit everyone in GoT harder than they can hit him before they're close enough to even try. Not to say that Oberyn's speed was unimportant but the extra reach from the spear was the larger part of his plan. This is probably more true than anything else.

What are the battle conditions cause different weapons matter for different situations.

For instance against heavily armored foes you probably want to pick a more bludgeoning type weapon like a fail, mace, or hammer. If you are strong enough to wield them.

The reason being piercing and slashing weapons have a hard time inflicting any real wounds against the armor, but the Bludgeoning weapons can get past the armor by possibly breaking bones from the shear force of their attacks.

Armoured swordplay actually tended to involve using the sword as a lever to aid in grappling them much of the time, and getting in a position to stab them in the throat with a sharp dagger. In terms of longsword fencing anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, nowhere was it stated that Sandor was "holding back", and actually, it does, in fact, state that Sandor was hammering at his brother as well. Sandor just happened to not be trying to aim for his unprotected face. The exchange was so brief that to use it as any kind of evidence is stupid.

Sandor is known to be among the physically strongest men in Westeros (Jaime explicitly mentions him, the Greatjon, Strongboar, and The Mountain himself as the four men in Westeros he believes to be physically superior to he, with the Mountain easily taking 1st, and his wording seems to imply that Sandor would be second), Jaime believes Sandor's real strength is that he is also very fast for a man of such strength and size. While skilled, he isn't any Arthur Dayne, or Jaime Lannister. Both are skilled fighters, Gregor is physically stronger, Sandor faster, but Gregor's plate mail is also virtually impregnable, compounded by his tower shield.

Which also happens to have its applications in actual combat.

It was not.

It would be a good fight, but the Mountain would prevail.

"No one could withstand him. That's truth enough. No one could ever withstand Gregor."

Sandor would win, he's better than Gregor as seen. Deal with that.

No one, except for the guy that had him dead to rights and then lost due to hubris. Deal.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oberyn showed how picking the right weapon can define the outcome of the fight. He knew perfectly well that he couldn't win a sword fight with Gregor. With swords Gregor can hit everyone in GoT harder than they can hit him before they're close enough to even try. Not to say that Oberyn's speed was unimportant but the extra reach from the spear was the larger part of his plan.

All you said would fall under what I said, "cunning and skill". We should mate.

Sandor himself knows he can't "withstand" Gregor.

Sandor didn't know Oberyn.

But he does know himself, and that he can't beat Gregor.

The hound runs up the mountain and takes a dump on it. /the end

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So which is it, those knives or a spear?

Whatever weapon I apply my skills to, I insta-kill with it.

I'm sure your 19 year old fists are made of pure topaz.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm sure your 19 year old fists are made of pure topaz.

19 is six years beyond a grown ass man in many cultures.

****, I wish was a baby again, I would do so many things differently.

Originally posted by Dolos
19 is six years beyond a grown ass man in many cultures. And all those 13 year old kids have the biology of 19 year olds.

Or is it vice versa?

So it's settled, Sandor Clegane is the deadliest weapon.

I'm the deadliest weapon...of every society, every culture, and ever era in history.

In a thousand billion billion years people will reflect on my story, and it will bring deeper emtional questioning than that of the Story of Christ.

Stop stealing from John Lennon.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stop stealing from John Lennon.

Do what now?

Originally posted by Robtard
The hound runs up the mountain and takes a dump on it. /the end He proceeds to get his brains splattered across the pavement by Gregor's fist.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He proceeds to get his brains splattered across the pavement by Gregor's fist.

Get off Gregor's dick already, you're not his type.

Brad Pitt's fist.

nG_Nwp0wZc0

It's not how hard you hit, it's the angle. Smaller fists, thrown with better coordination and accuracy, can disperse greater breaking force upon the shatterpoint in your jaw...or temple or nose or any other part of the face.

I plan to get down to around 135-140 like he was in Snatch one day.

A drone!

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Revolvers>reliable melee weapons>Kusarigama>this piece of weeabo wankery damn straight